Ghost Light... "What?!"

[Mickmane]

Hi.

Rewatched Ghost Light (Classic episode from season 26), and again I'm
going... "What?!"

What were the aliens, why were they there, what happened!? :)

All I know is that the Doctor and Ace were there, and that she'd burned
down the house when younger, in the future, due to a lingering sense of
evil or something. _That_ I understand. The rest... not so much.

(Of course I could ask google or wiki or something, but hey, we're here,
let's talk about the series! :) )

--

Mickmane

[The Doctor]

8/10 for GL!
--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nk.ca Ici doc...@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
The ignorant won't rest until everyone is as dumb as they are. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

[The Last Doctor]

Light, Control and Josiah were the - crew? - components? - AI entities? -
of a vessel from another reality. One in which things didn’t evolve. Sent
to study Earth and getting accidentally stalled through time, they
experienced the reality of evolution and went a bit mad in different ways.
And then …

Oh who am I kidding? Cartmel and Pratt were too inexperienced to carve a
coherent story out of their script in the allotted time and JN-T was as
useful as a chocolate teapot in this department as usual, being too busy
making sure the music was shit, turning up the colour palette to play
school level and generally trying to lower the tone back to season 24
levels.

Result - a colourful, incoherent, confused mess. One of three stories in
this season that fell short of their promise, the exception being
“Survival” and that’s because there wasn’t much promise in that concept to
begin with.

--
“The timelines and … canon … are rupturing” - the Doctor

[Blueshirt]

Mickmane wrote:

> Hi.
>
> Rewatched Ghost Light (Classic episode from season 26), and again
> I'm going... "What?!"

I'm not sure I'd call "Ghost Light" a 'classic' episode but it is
from the classic era! ;-)

"Ghost Light" was one of the better Seventh Doctor stories, but
that's not really saying much. For me, it wouldn't be in the same
league as the Tom Baker 'classic' episodes. "Ghost Light" was also
the last Doctor Who story to be made before the show was cancelled.
So maybe the BBC were also saying "what?!" after seeing the tapes!
As "Ghost Light" doesn’t quite make sense or fit together as well as
it should.

> What were the aliens, why were they there, what happened!? :)
> All I know is that the Doctor and Ace were there, and that she'd
> burned down the house when younger, in the future, due to a

> lingering sense of evil or something. That I understand. The
> rest... not so much.

That pretty much sums up most of the Sylvester McCoy era of Doctor
Who! Poor writing, bad editing and budget cuts left Doctor Who of
that era with ideas that looked good on paper and stories with
potential badly realised on-screen when broadcast.

Also I think the S26 stories were scripted as four-episode stories
and whittled down to three episodes for broadcast, so that might
explain some of the confusion in the stories.

> (Of course I could ask google or wiki or something, but hey, we're
> here, let's talk about the series! :) )

A novel idea for RADW. Worth trying though...

[The Doctor]

In article <uqkuk3$3a0l6$1...@dont-email.me>,

I rate it 8/10 !

>--
>“The timelines and … canon … are rupturing” - the Doctor

[The Doctor]

In article <xn0oi3ru5...@reader.xsnews.nl>,

Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:
>Mickmane wrote:
>
>> Hi.
>>
>> Rewatched Ghost Light (Classic episode from season 26), and again
>> I'm going... "What?!"
>
>I'm not sure I'd call "Ghost Light" a 'classic' episode but it is
>from the classic era! ;-)
>
>"Ghost Light" was one of the better Seventh Doctor stories, but
>that's not really saying much. For me, it wouldn't be in the same
>league as the Tom Baker 'classic' episodes. "Ghost Light" was also
>the last Doctor Who story to be made before the show was cancelled.
>So maybe the BBC were also saying "what?!" after seeing the tapes!
>As "Ghost Light" doesn’t quite make sense or fit together as well as
>it should.

It is suppose to be the Creation vs Evolution debate plot.

>
>> What were the aliens, why were they there, what happened!? :)
>> All I know is that the Doctor and Ace were there, and that she'd
>> burned down the house when younger, in the future, due to a
>> lingering sense of evil or something. That I understand. The
>> rest... not so much.
>
>That pretty much sums up most of the Sylvester McCoy era of Doctor
>Who! Poor writing, bad editing and budget cuts left Doctor Who of
>that era with ideas that looked good on paper and stories with
>potential badly realised on-screen when broadcast.
>
>Also I think the S26 stories were scripted as four-episode stories
>and whittled down to three episodes for broadcast, so that might
>explain some of the confusion in the stories.

Thanks to J Powell!

>
>> (Of course I could ask google or wiki or something, but hey, we're
>> here, let's talk about the series! :) )
>
>A novel idea for RADW. Worth trying though...
>

Better to interact with humans!

[Blueshirt]

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <uqkuk3$3a0l6$1...@dont-email.me>,
> The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
> >
> > Oh who am I kidding? Cartmel and Pratt were too inexperienced to
> > carve a coherent story out of their script in the allotted time
> > and JN-T was as useful as a chocolate teapot in this department
> > as usual, being too busy making sure the music was shit, turning
> > up the colour palette to play school level and generally trying
> > to lower the tone back to season 24 levels.
> >
> > Result - a colourful, incoherent, confused mess. One of three
> > stories in this season that fell short of their promise, the
> > exception being “Survival” and that’s because there wasn’t much
> > promise in that concept to
> > begin with.
>
> I rate it 8/10 !

What did you like about "Ghost Light" so Dave? Did you find it
confusing?

I bet you thought Ace was "hot" didn't you?

[The Doctor]

In article <xn0oi3sjw...@reader.xsnews.nl>,

No! Ace has to face her action!

Evolution vs creation.

Snakedance is more confusing!

Midnight is even more confusing!

>
>I bet you thought Ace was "hot" didn't you?

Yes!

[Mickmane]

On 15.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
> In article <xn0oi3ru5...@reader.xsnews.nl>,
> Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:
>> Mickmane wrote:

Why do most of Blueshirt's posts no longer turn up here anywhere!?

>>> Rewatched Ghost Light (Classic episode from season 26), and again
>>> I'm going... "What?!"
>>
>> I'm not sure I'd call "Ghost Light" a 'classic' episode but it is
>> from the classic era! ;-)

Yeah, that's what I mean. :)

>> "Ghost Light" was one of the better Seventh Doctor stories, but
>> that's not really saying much. For me, it wouldn't be in the same
>> league as the Tom Baker 'classic' episodes. "Ghost Light" was also
>> the last Doctor Who story to be made before the show was cancelled.
>> So maybe the BBC were also saying "what?!" after seeing the tapes!
>> As "Ghost Light" doesn���t quite make sense or fit together as
>> well as it should.

There's still two stories after it; the Curse of the Fenric, and
Survival.

Or do you mean it was cancelled, and then they filmed a little more
before the end?

To be 'one of the better' stories, I'd expect it to be comprehensible.
:)

> It is suppose to be the Creation vs Evolution debate plot.

No one was creating anything in it, and that one character was just
complaining about evolution happening.

>>> What were the aliens, why were they there, what happened!? :)
>>> All I know is that the Doctor and Ace were there, and that she'd
>>> burned down the house when younger, in the future, due to a
>>> lingering sense of evil or something. That I understand. The
>>> rest... not so much.
>>
>> That pretty much sums up most of the Sylvester McCoy era of Doctor
>> Who! Poor writing, bad editing and budget cuts left Doctor Who of
>> that era with ideas that looked good on paper and stories with
>> potential badly realised on-screen when broadcast.

Aww.

>> Also I think the S26 stories were scripted as four-episode stories
>> and whittled down to three episodes for broadcast, so that might
>> explain some of the confusion in the stories.

I did notice some of them being only three episodes.

>>> (Of course I could ask google or wiki or something, but hey, we're
>>> here, let's talk about the series! :) )
>>
>> A novel idea for RADW. Worth trying though...

Haha. :)

--

Mickmane

[Mickmane]

On 15.02.24, The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:

> Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:

>> Rewatched Ghost Light (Classic episode from season 26), and again
>> I'm going... "What?!"
>>
>> What were the aliens, why were they there, what happened!? :)
>>
>> All I know is that the Doctor and Ace were there, and that she'd
>> burned down the house when younger, in the future, due to a
>> lingering sense of evil or something. _That_ I understand. The
>> rest... not so much.

> Light, Control and Josiah were the - crew? - components? - AI
> entities? - of a vessel from another reality. One in which things

> didn?t evolve. Sent to study Earth and getting accidentally stalled

> through time, they experienced the reality of evolution and went a

> bit mad in different ways. And then ?

Oh, totally missed that other reality bit.

> Oh who am I kidding? Cartmel and Pratt were too inexperienced to
> carve a coherent story out of their script in the allotted time and
> JN-T was as useful as a chocolate teapot in this department as usual,
> being too busy making sure the music was shit, turning up the colour
> palette to play school level and generally trying to lower the tone
> back to season 24 levels.

Lol. Ghost-lighting the viewers!

Don't know those names though, and Google didn't really help.

> Result - a colourful, incoherent, confused mess. One of three stories
> in this season that fell short of their promise, the exception being

> ?Survival? and that?s because there wasn?t much promise in that
> concept to begin with.

The story after Ghost Light (the Curse of the Fenric) wasn't that
coherent either. The third is the Greatest Show in the Galaxy? Wait,
that was season 25.

I liked the one where they'd dug out Brigadier Steward again. :)

--

Mickmane

[The Doctor]

In article <GYuKC2YqczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>On 15.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>> In article <xn0oi3ru5...@reader.xsnews.nl>,
>> Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:
>>> Mickmane wrote:
>
>Why do most of Blueshirt's posts no longer turn up here anywhere!?
>

Maybe your nntp provider is mad at his provider!

>>>> Rewatched Ghost Light (Classic episode from season 26), and again
>>>> I'm going... "What?!"
>>>
>>> I'm not sure I'd call "Ghost Light" a 'classic' episode but it is
>>> from the classic era! ;-)
>
>Yeah, that's what I mean. :)
>

Ha! Ha!!

>>> "Ghost Light" was one of the better Seventh Doctor stories, but
>>> that's not really saying much. For me, it wouldn't be in the same
>>> league as the Tom Baker 'classic' episodes. "Ghost Light" was also
>>> the last Doctor Who story to be made before the show was cancelled.
>>> So maybe the BBC were also saying "what?!" after seeing the tapes!
>>> As "Ghost Light" doesn���t quite make sense or fit together as
>>> well as it should.
>
>There's still two stories after it; the Curse of the Fenric, and
>Survival.

both are grand IMHO.

>
>Or do you mean it was cancelled, and then they filmed a little more
>before the end?
>
>To be 'one of the better' stories, I'd expect it to be comprehensible.
>:)
>

What happened was that Season 27 was ready to go
and then idoit BBC1 controller Jonathan Powell canned DW
for El Dorado!

>> It is suppose to be the Creation vs Evolution debate plot.
>
>No one was creating anything in it, and that one character was just
>complaining about evolution happening.
>

Priest versus one man person

>>>> What were the aliens, why were they there, what happened!? :)
>>>> All I know is that the Doctor and Ace were there, and that she'd
>>>> burned down the house when younger, in the future, due to a
>>>> lingering sense of evil or something. That I understand. The
>>>> rest... not so much.
>>>
>>> That pretty much sums up most of the Sylvester McCoy era of Doctor
>>> Who! Poor writing, bad editing and budget cuts left Doctor Who of
>>> that era with ideas that looked good on paper and stories with
>>> potential badly realised on-screen when broadcast.
>
>Aww.

Please ignore the troll.

>
>>> Also I think the S26 stories were scripted as four-episode stories
>>> and whittled down to three episodes for broadcast, so that might
>>> explain some of the confusion in the stories.
>
>I did notice some of them being only three episodes.
>

4 -3 -4 -3

>>>> (Of course I could ask google or wiki or something, but hey, we're
>>>> here, let's talk about the series! :) )
>>>
>>> A novel idea for RADW. Worth trying though...
>
>Haha. :)
>

We are better company.

>--
>
>Mickmane

[The Doctor]

In article <GYuKCOoLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>On 15.02.24, The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>> Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>
>>> Rewatched Ghost Light (Classic episode from season 26), and again
>>> I'm going... "What?!"
>>>
>>> What were the aliens, why were they there, what happened!? :)
>>>
>>> All I know is that the Doctor and Ace were there, and that she'd
>>> burned down the house when younger, in the future, due to a
>>> lingering sense of evil or something. _That_ I understand. The
>>> rest... not so much.
>
>> Light, Control and Josiah were the - crew? - components? - AI
>> entities? - of a vessel from another reality. One in which things
>> didn?t evolve. Sent to study Earth and getting accidentally stalled
>> through time, they experienced the reality of evolution and went a
>> bit mad in different ways. And then ?
>
>Oh, totally missed that other reality bit.
>

MM for you!

>> Oh who am I kidding? Cartmel and Pratt were too inexperienced to
>> carve a coherent story out of their script in the allotted time and
>> JN-T was as useful as a chocolate teapot in this department as usual,
>> being too busy making sure the music was shit, turning up the colour
>> palette to play school level and generally trying to lower the tone
>> back to season 24 levels.
>
>Lol. Ghost-lighting the viewers!
>
>Don't know those names though, and Google didn't really help.
>

quotefile!

>> Result - a colourful, incoherent, confused mess. One of three stories
>> in this season that fell short of their promise, the exception being
>> ?Survival? and that?s because there wasn?t much promise in that
>> concept to begin with.
>
>The story after Ghost Light (the Curse of the Fenric) wasn't that
>coherent either. The third is the Greatest Show in the Galaxy? Wait,
>that was season 25.
>
>I liked the one where they'd dug out Brigadier Steward again. :)
>

If you want incoherent, try snakedane or worse yet Midnight
or even worse yet Chibnall's Timeless Child.

[Mickmane]

On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
> In article <GYuKCOoLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>> On 15.02.24, The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>>> Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:

>>>> Rewatched Ghost Light (Classic episode from season 26), and again
>>>> I'm going... "What?!"

>>> Light, Control and Josiah were the - crew? - components? - AI
>>> entities? - of a vessel from another reality. One in which things
>>> didn?t evolve. Sent to study Earth and getting accidentally stalled
>>> through time, they experienced the reality of evolution and went a
>>> bit mad in different ways. And then ?
>>
>> Oh, totally missed that other reality bit.

> MM for you!

I guess you don't mean one of a particular sweet?

>> The story after Ghost Light (the Curse of the Fenric) wasn't that
>> coherent either. The third is the Greatest Show in the Galaxy? Wait,
>> that was season 25.
>>
>> I liked the one where they'd dug out Brigadier Steward again. :)

> If you want incoherent, try snakedane or worse yet Midnight
> or even worse yet Chibnall's Timeless Child.

Without checking, Snakedance was that with the Kinda? Or the much later
episode where the evil thing resurfaced from apparently being hidden in
Teagan? (That last bit was the only thing that bothered me.)

Midnight, Ten(nant) episode, with Donna relaxing somewhere while he goes
on some shuttle sight-eeing tour to planet Midnight, and that talky non-
visible thing takes over some woman? Where they want to expell him into
no-air planet outside?

I didn't like that episode, but didn't think it so very incoherent. Now
the Ten(nant) episode I liked least was the one with Absorbalof. Hardly
any Doctor, boring stupid people not paying attention, and ghastly
ending.

That other episode you mention simply doesn't make sense, so it's just
the Master messing with the Doctor's mind. And even Toymaker confirmed
that our first Doctor was the actual first Doctor. (He'd know! And likes
jabs at the Doctor.)

--

Mickmane

[Mickmane]

On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
> In article <GYuKC2YqczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>> On 15.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>> wrote:
>>> In article <xn0oi3ru5...@reader.xsnews.nl>,
>>> Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:
>>>> Mickmane wrote:

>> Why do most of Blueshirt's posts no longer turn up here anywhere!?

> Maybe your nntp provider is mad at his provider!

Hah, doubtful. He's a real person who supplies Usenet and Fidonet as a
hobby. (And also a gateway between the two. Until I moved in 2009 and
got broadband for the new flat, I used my 28.8 modem to call his
directly computer via landline.)

>> There's still two stories after it; the Curse of the Fenric, and
>> Survival.

> both are grand IMHO.

Survival is the one with the cat people? I remember watching that
before, but now it's the last story remaining on the list of Classic to
(re-)watch.

--

Mickmane

[Blueshirt]

Mickmane wrote:
>
> There's still two stories after it; the Curse of the Fenric, and
> Survival.

S26 was broadcast out of order. "Ghost Light" was the last Doctor
Who story made before the show was cancelled. Two stories produced
earlier were broadcast after "Ghost Light".

"Survival" was the last episode of Doctor Who broadcast obviously,
but it was made before "Ghost Light".

> Or do you mean it was cancelled, and then they filmed a little
> more before the end?

No, it was broadcast but episodes produced before it were shown
after it!

> To be 'one of the better' stories, I'd expect it to be
> comprehensible. :)

Better as in relatively when compared to other Seventh Doctor
stories. As the Sylvester McCoy era of Doctor Who was so bad they
cancelled the show. Ghost Light wasn't one of JNT's 'pantomime'
episodes, it had an okay story for that era, it just needed
concentration to follow it!

[Blueshirt]

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <GYuKC2YqczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
> >
> > Why do most of Blueshirt's posts no longer turn up here
> > anywhere!?
>
> Maybe your nntp provider is mad at his provider!

Filters I'd say... <shrugs>

[The Doctor]

In article <GYyKWDb5czB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>> In article <GYuKC2YqczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>> On 15.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>>> In article <xn0oi3ru5...@reader.xsnews.nl>,
>>>> Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:
>>>>> Mickmane wrote:
>
>>> Why do most of Blueshirt's posts no longer turn up here anywhere!?
>
>> Maybe your nntp provider is mad at his provider!
>
>Hah, doubtful. He's a real person who supplies Usenet and Fidonet as a
>hobby. (And also a gateway between the two. Until I moved in 2009 and
>got broadband for the new flat, I used my 28.8 modem to call his
>directly computer via landline.)
>

ti is NNTP vs NNTP providers!

>>> There's still two stories after it; the Curse of the Fenric, and
>>> Survival.
>
>> both are grand IMHO.
>
>Survival is the one with the cat people? I remember watching that
>before, but now it's the last story remaining on the list of Classic to
>(re-)watch.
>

That one! THe Master was in it!

[The Doctor]

In article <GYyKVYDLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>> In article <GYuKCOoLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>> On 15.02.24, The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>>>> Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>
>>>>> Rewatched Ghost Light (Classic episode from season 26), and again
>>>>> I'm going... "What?!"
>
>>>> Light, Control and Josiah were the - crew? - components? - AI
>>>> entities? - of a vessel from another reality. One in which things
>>>> didn?t evolve. Sent to study Earth and getting accidentally stalled
>>>> through time, they experienced the reality of evolution and went a
>>>> bit mad in different ways. And then ?
>>>
>>> Oh, totally missed that other reality bit.
>
>> MM for you!
>
>I guess you don't mean one of a particular sweet?
>

MM is Mike McKeown.

>>> The story after Ghost Light (the Curse of the Fenric) wasn't that
>>> coherent either. The third is the Greatest Show in the Galaxy? Wait,
>>> that was season 25.
>>>
>>> I liked the one where they'd dug out Brigadier Steward again. :)
>
>> If you want incoherent, try snakedane or worse yet Midnight
>> or even worse yet Chibnall's Timeless Child.
>
>Without checking, Snakedance was that with the Kinda? Or the much later
>episode where the evil thing resurfaced from apparently being hidden in
>Teagan? (That last bit was the only thing that bothered me.)
>

The Mara

>Midnight, Ten(nant) episode, with Donna relaxing somewhere while he goes
>on some shuttle sight-eeing tour to planet Midnight, and that talky non-
>visible thing takes over some woman? Where they want to expell him into
>no-air planet outside?
>
>I didn't like that episode, but didn't think it so very incoherent. Now
>the Ten(nant) episode I liked least was the one with Absorbalof. Hardly
>any Doctor, boring stupid people not paying attention, and ghastly
>ending.
>

Yes that one!

>That other episode you mention simply doesn't make sense, so it's just
>the Master messing with the Doctor's mind. And even Toymaker confirmed
>that our first Doctor was the actual first Doctor. (He'd know! And likes
>jabs at the Doctor.)
>

And there goes Chibnall out the door!

[The Doctor]

In article <xn0oi55r1...@reader.xsnews.nl>,

False! Grade/Powell wants to cancel as in there view, BBC was no place for scifi!

[The Doctor]

In article <xn0oi56g0...@reader.xsnews.nl>,

Possible!

[Blueshirt]

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <xn0oi55r1...@reader.xsnews.nl>,
> Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:
> > Mickmane wrote:
> >> To be 'one of the better' stories, I'd expect it to be
> >> comprehensible. :)
> >
> > Better as in relatively when compared to other Seventh Doctor
> > stories. As the Sylvester McCoy era of Doctor Who was so bad they
> > cancelled the show. Ghost Light wasn't one of JNT's 'pantomime'
> > episodes, it had an okay story for that era, it just needed
> > concentration to follow it!
>
> False!

IYIO!

> Grade/Powell wants to cancel as in there view, BBC
> was no place for scifi!

They certainly played their part, and maybe they also had ideas for
shows that would attract more viewers to BBC1 than any sci-fi shows
could? At the time that was their job.

That doesn't change the fact that the Sylvester McCoy era of Doctor
Who was crap! McCoy himself was not the man for the job, the scripts
were [generally] poor and the rock-bottom ratings reflected the
apathy among the general public for Doctor Who.

[Mickmane]

On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
> In article <GYyKVYDLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>> On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>> wrote:
>>> In article <GYuKCOoLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:

[Ghost Light.... WHAT!?]

>>>> Oh, totally missed that other reality bit.
>>
>>> MM for you!
>>
>> I guess you don't mean one of a particular sweet?

> MM is Mike McKeown.

Names and I don't get on well, I'd be hard pressed listing all actors
who played the Doctor, never mind companions or even anyone not seen on
the show. I barely remember the in-show names of the companions.

Or take crime series like Criminal Intent or Criminal Minds. Takes a
while (weeks, months) until I even know the detectives' names. Suspects
and victim have no chance at all, so I rarely know who they're talking
about. :)

>>> If you want incoherent, try snakedane or worse yet Midnight
>>> or even worse yet Chibnall's Timeless Child.
>>
>> Without checking, Snakedance was that with the Kinda? Or the much
>> later episode where the evil thing resurfaced from apparently being
>> hidden in Teagan? (That last bit was the only thing that bothered
>> me.)

> The Mara

Yup, that thing. Which episode that it turns up were you refering to?

>> Midnight, Ten(nant) episode, with Donna relaxing somewhere while he
>> goes on some shuttle sight-eeing tour to planet Midnight, and that
>> talky non- visible thing takes over some woman? Where they want to
>> expell him into no-air planet outside?

> Yes that one!

Hah, for once my memory worked! :)

--

Mickmane

[Mickmane]

On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:

> In article <xn0oi55r1...@reader.xsnews.nl>,
> Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:
>> Mickmane wrote:

(For once, doctor replying to everything without snipping is useful!)

>>> There's still two stories after it; the Curse of the Fenric, and
>>> Survival.
>>
>> S26 was broadcast out of order. "Ghost Light" was the last Doctor
>> Who story made before the show was cancelled. Two stories produced
>> earlier were broadcast after "Ghost Light".
>>
>> "Survival" was the last episode of Doctor Who broadcast obviously,
>> but it was made before "Ghost Light".

Oh, didn't know that.

>>> To be 'one of the better' stories, I'd expect it to be
>>> comprehensible. :)
>>
>> Better as in relatively when compared to other Seventh Doctor
>> stories. As the Sylvester McCoy era of Doctor Who was so bad they
>> cancelled the show. Ghost Light wasn't one of JNT's 'pantomime'
>> episodes, it had an okay story for that era, it just needed
>> concentration to follow it!

Pantomime episodes?

> False! Grade/Powell wants to cancel as in there view, BBC was no
> place for scifi!

Boo!

--

Mickmane

[Mickmane]

On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
> In article <GYyKWDb5czB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>> doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>>> In article <GYuKC2YqczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:

>>>> Why do most of Blueshirt's posts no longer turn up here anywhere!?
>>
>>> Maybe your nntp provider is mad at his provider!
>>
>> Hah, doubtful. He's a real person who supplies Usenet and Fidonet as
>> a hobby. (And also a gateway between the two. Until I moved in 2009
>> and got broadband for the new flat, I used my 28.8 modem to call his
>> directly computer via landline.)

> ti is NNTP vs NNTP providers!

Going back and looking at headers, it seems that for about 2 weeks now
posts from "Organisat. : xs news" no longer arrive, while those from
"Organisat. : Indigo News" still get through.

I'll ask the kruemel.org owner if he can make anything of it.

>>>> There's still two stories after it; the Curse of the Fenric, and
>>>> Survival.
>>
>>> both are grand IMHO.
>>
>> Survival is the one with the cat people? I remember watching that
>> before, but now it's the last story remaining on the list of Classic
>> to (re-)watch.

> That one! THe Master was in it!

Oh, so then it's just lame. That dude isn't even like vistors or fish,
just plain boring.

--

Mickmane

[Blueshirt]

Dave won't like that... Anthony Ainley and himself were best buds.

Where's that famous photo again Dave, I haven't seen it for a few
years?

[The Doctor]

In article <xn0oi5ggy...@reader.xsnews.nl>,

The whole quality of the BBC suffered under those 2!

Thank goodness Alan Yentob got BBC1 back up!

[The Doctor]

In article <GYyKql4aczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>> In article <xn0oi55r1...@reader.xsnews.nl>,
>> Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:
>>> Mickmane wrote:
>
>(For once, doctor replying to everything without snipping is useful!)
>

Exactly!

>>>> There's still two stories after it; the Curse of the Fenric, and
>>>> Survival.
>>>
>>> S26 was broadcast out of order. "Ghost Light" was the last Doctor
>>> Who story made before the show was cancelled. Two stories produced
>>> earlier were broadcast after "Ghost Light".
>>>
>>> "Survival" was the last episode of Doctor Who broadcast obviously,
>>> but it was made before "Ghost Light".
>
>Oh, didn't know that.
>

BS is correct!

>>>> To be 'one of the better' stories, I'd expect it to be
>>>> comprehensible. :)
>>>
>>> Better as in relatively when compared to other Seventh Doctor
>>> stories. As the Sylvester McCoy era of Doctor Who was so bad they
>>> cancelled the show. Ghost Light wasn't one of JNT's 'pantomime'
>>> episodes, it had an okay story for that era, it just needed
>>> concentration to follow it!
>
>Pantomime episodes?
>

His opinion

>> False! Grade/Powell wants to cancel as in there view, BBC was no
>> place for scifi!
>
>Boo!
>

Exactly!!!

>--
>
>Mickmane

[The Doctor]

In article <GYyKr0vaczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>> In article <GYyKVYDLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>> On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>>> In article <GYuKCOoLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>
>[Ghost Light.... WHAT!?]
>>>>> Oh, totally missed that other reality bit.
>>>
>>>> MM for you!
>>>
>>> I guess you don't mean one of a particular sweet?
>
>> MM is Mike McKeown.
>
>Names and I don't get on well, I'd be hard pressed listing all actors
>who played the Doctor, never mind companions or even anyone not seen on
>the show. I barely remember the in-show names of the companions.
>
>Or take crime series like Criminal Intent or Criminal Minds. Takes a
>while (weeks, months) until I even know the detectives' names. Suspects
>and victim have no chance at all, so I rarely know who they're talking
>about. :)
>

You are MM too!

>>>> If you want incoherent, try snakedane or worse yet Midnight
>>>> or even worse yet Chibnall's Timeless Child.
>>>
>>> Without checking, Snakedance was that with the Kinda? Or the much
>>> later episode where the evil thing resurfaced from apparently being
>>> hidden in Teagan? (That last bit was the only thing that bothered
>>> me.)
>
>> The Mara
>
>Yup, that thing. Which episode that it turns up were you refering to?
>

Snakedance.

>>> Midnight, Ten(nant) episode, with Donna relaxing somewhere while he
>>> goes on some shuttle sight-eeing tour to planet Midnight, and that
>>> talky non- visible thing takes over some woman? Where they want to
>>> expell him into no-air planet outside?
>
>> Yes that one!
>
>Hah, for once my memory worked! :)
>

There you go!

[The Doctor]

In article <GYyKsAH5czB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>> In article <GYyKWDb5czB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>> doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>> In article <GYuKC2YqczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>
>>>>> Why do most of Blueshirt's posts no longer turn up here anywhere!?
>>>
>>>> Maybe your nntp provider is mad at his provider!
>>>
>>> Hah, doubtful. He's a real person who supplies Usenet and Fidonet as
>>> a hobby. (And also a gateway between the two. Until I moved in 2009
>>> and got broadband for the new flat, I used my 28.8 modem to call his
>>> directly computer via landline.)
>
>> ti is NNTP vs NNTP providers!
>
>Going back and looking at headers, it seems that for about 2 weeks now
>posts from "Organisat. : xs news" no longer arrive, while those from
>"Organisat. : Indigo News" still get through.
>
>I'll ask the kruemel.org owner if he can make anything of it.
>

Best practice.

>>>>> There's still two stories after it; the Curse of the Fenric, and
>>>>> Survival.
>>>
>>>> both are grand IMHO.
>>>
>>> Survival is the one with the cat people? I remember watching that
>>> before, but now it's the last story remaining on the list of Classic
>>> to (re-)watch.
>
>> That one! THe Master was in it!
>
>Oh, so then it's just lame. That dude isn't even like vistors or fish,
>just plain boring.
>

He was really evil!

If we fight like animal, we die like animals!

[The Doctor]

In article <xn0oi5iwx...@news.eternal-september.org>,

https://www.nk.ca/~doctor/

[Daniel65]

The Doctor wrote on 17/2/24 9:55 am:

> In article <xn0oi5iwx...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:
>> Mickmane wrote:
>>> On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> That one! THe Master was in it!
>>>
>>> Oh, so then it's just lame. That dude isn't even like vistors or
>>> fish, just plain boring.
>>
>> Dave won't like that... Anthony Ainley and himself were best buds.
>>
>> Where's that famous photo again Dave, I haven't seen it for a few
>> years?
>
> https://www.nk.ca/~doctor/
>

"costume contast"?? What's a 'contast', "Yellow Beard Yadallee"??

"This Page is based on the personality of Dave Yadallee" .... So that
would be a *ZERO* then, "Yellow Beard Yadallee"!!

"Dave believes in completeness, so never say a Domain is a Web Page URL!!"!!

"World wide Web PAge"?? The same old "Yellow Beard Yadallee"!! "PAge"!!

"For a Web Page, develop for a 486 with 8 MB of RAM and you got
it,otherwise chug, chug, and go to sleep while waiting." ?? "Yellow
Beard Yadallee" must be sooooo busy with his Toastmaster friends that he
can't even update *HIS* webpage .... even if he has the knowledge to do it!!

"BBC announces ninth doctor"!! WOW!! Up-to-date!!
--
Daniel

[Mickmane]

On 17.02.24, Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:
> Mickmane wrote:
>> On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>> wrote:

>>> That one! THe Master was in it!
>>
>> Oh, so then it's just lame. That dude isn't even like vistors or
>> fish, just plain boring.

> Dave won't like that... Anthony Ainley and himself were best buds.

More names. Google helped. Dave is doctor? Did they actually know each
other, or is doctor just a fan?

> Where's that famous photo again Dave, I haven't seen it for a few
> years?

Oh, photo indicates real life meeting.

But what the actors do could at best not ruin my enjoyment of a TV
series or film. I prefer not to know anything about them.

For me, what counts are the characters. Not the actor's fault if they
are written lame.

--

Mickmane

[Mickmane]

On 17.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
> In article <GYyKsAH5czB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>> On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>> wrote:

>>> That one! THe Master was in it!
>>
>> Oh, so then it's just lame. That dude isn't even like vistors or
>> fish, just plain boring.

> He was really evil!

He is completely nuts, with ridiculous ideas and obsessions.

That has me wonder, when someone is completely nuts, can you call them
evil, or are they not responsible for their actions?

Can someone who's not responsible for their actions (because their
head's screwed on weirdly and just doesn't work properly) be called
evil?

And does scale play a role? If someone's nuts and 'just' affects his
neighbours, and can be locked up, is it different to someone who's
mighty and has tech or magic to prevent being locked up?

(I've written some stories for myself - don't like what's published
anymore - including some evil overlords and ladies. Most of them are
completely nuts. They can't just be locked up though, too powerful. Same
question applies there: Are they actually evil or just crazy, or both?)

--

Mickmane

[Mickmane]

> In article <xn0oi5ggy...@reader.xsnews.nl>,
> Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:

>> That doesn't change the fact that the Sylvester McCoy era of Doctor
>> Who was crap! McCoy himself was not the man for the job,

Why was he not the man for the job?

--

Mickmane

[Mickmane]

On 17.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
> In article <GYyKr0vaczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>> On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>> wrote:
>>> In article <GYyKVYDLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>>> On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> In article <GYuKCOoLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:

>> [Ghost Light.... WHAT!?]
>>>>>> Oh, totally missed that other reality bit.

>>>>> MM for you!
>>>>
>>>> I guess you don't mean one of a particular sweet?
>>
>>> MM is Mike McKeown.
>>
>> Names and I don't get on well, I'd be hard pressed listing all
>> actors who played the Doctor, never mind companions or even anyone
>> not seen on the show. I barely remember the in-show names of the
>> companions.

> You are MM too!

Oh, right!

Though most just shorten it to Mick. :) (Or if they have some reading
problem, or I don't know what, sometimes it ends up Mike. It's
interesting how some Twitch streamers can't get my name right.)

>>>> Without checking, Snakedance was that with the Kinda? Or the much
>>>> later episode where the evil thing resurfaced from apparently
>>>> being hidden in Teagan? (That last bit was the only thing that
>>>> bothered me.)
>>
>>> The Mara
>>
>> Yup, that thing. Which episode that it turns up were you refering
>> to?

> Snakedance.

Yes, which of the two episodes I described was called that?

I guess I'd have to check an episode list or something. :P

--

Mickmane

[The Doctor]

In article <uqprtv$b4gi$1...@dont-email.me>,

Well then you can click on the blog link Red-bearded Dannyboy!

>--
>Daniel

[The Doctor]

I like the Evil Master!!

[The Doctor]

There you go!

[The Doctor]

No justification from Captain Bluebeard Blueshirt!

>--
>
>Mickmane

[The Doctor]

In article <GZ1LEY2LczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>On 17.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>> In article <GYyKr0vaczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>> On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>>> In article <GYyKVYDLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>>>> On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> In article <GYuKCOoLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>
>>> [Ghost Light.... WHAT!?]
>>>>>>> Oh, totally missed that other reality bit.
>
>>>>>> MM for you!
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess you don't mean one of a particular sweet?
>>>
>>>> MM is Mike McKeown.
>>>
>>> Names and I don't get on well, I'd be hard pressed listing all
>>> actors who played the Doctor, never mind companions or even anyone
>>> not seen on the show. I barely remember the in-show names of the
>>> companions.
>
>> You are MM too!
>
>Oh, right!
>
>Though most just shorten it to Mick. :) (Or if they have some reading
>problem, or I don't know what, sometimes it ends up Mike. It's
>interesting how some Twitch streamers can't get my name right.)
>

We will now have to be careful
!

>>>>> Without checking, Snakedance was that with the Kinda? Or the much
>>>>> later episode where the evil thing resurfaced from apparently
>>>>> being hidden in Teagan? (That last bit was the only thing that
>>>>> bothered me.)
>>>
>>>> The Mara
>>>
>>> Yup, that thing. Which episode that it turns up were you refering
>>> to?
>
>> Snakedance.
>
>Yes, which of the two episodes I described was called that?
>
>I guess I'd have to check an episode list or something. :P

Videos, scripts, reviews ...

[The Last Doctor]

Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
> On 15.02.24, The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>> Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>
>>> Rewatched Ghost Light (Classic episode from season 26), and again
>>> I'm going... "What?!"
>>>

>>> What were the aliens, why were they there, what happened!? :)
>>>
>>> All I know is that the Doctor and Ace were there, and that she'd
>>> burned down the house when younger, in the future, due to a
>>> lingering sense of evil or something. _That_ I understand. The
>>> rest... not so much.

>
>> Light, Control and Josiah were the - crew? - components? - AI
>> entities? - of a vessel from another reality. One in which things
>> didn?t evolve. Sent to study Earth and getting accidentally stalled
>> through time, they experienced the reality of evolution and went a
>> bit mad in different ways. And then ?
>

> Oh, totally missed that other reality bit.

I may have picked that up from the novelisation. Looking back I don’t think
it was made clear in the show (mind you not much was).

>
>> Oh who am I kidding? Cartmel and Pratt were too inexperienced to
>> carve a coherent story out of their script in the allotted time and
>> JN-T was as useful as a chocolate teapot in this department as usual,
>> being too busy making sure the music was shit, turning up the colour
>> palette to play school level and generally trying to lower the tone
>> back to season 24 levels.
>
> Lol. Ghost-lighting the viewers!
>
> Don't know those names though, and Google didn't really help.

Marc Pratt was the writer, this was his first Doctor Who story (and the
only one televised to date though he has become a prolific and excellent
writer for Big Finish - including the very best Cyberman origin story to
date, “Spare Parts”, a Fifth Doctor adventure.

Well worth a listen even if you aren’t usually into radio plays.

John Cartmel was the new script editor. He famously had a “master plan” to
make the Doctor more Machiavellian and mysterious, with origins well before
the Hartnell incarnation - and he was supposedly grooming (in the not
creepy sense of the term) Ace for admission to the Time Lord Academy, hence
the various “tests” of her in this season, in Ghost Light and The Curse of
Fenric.

JN-T is John Nathan-Turner, the man who in my opinion ran Doctor Who slowly
onto the reefs of oblivion as producer since Tom Baker’s final season. He
it was who introduced Tom’s burgundy coat, and wanted Colin Baker’s costume
to be hideously flamboyant and the character to become obnoxious. He was
responsible for the loud electronic background music, the over lit primary
colours of everything, and for choosing a diminutive obscure Vaudeville
comedian with no acting skills as the Seventh Doctor, as well as the masses
of guest appearances from comedians with varying degrees of success - from
the sublime Tony Selby as Sabalom Glitz to the ridiculous Beryl Reid in
Earthshock and the pointless Hale and Pace in Survival.

>
>> Result - a colourful, incoherent, confused mess. One of three stories
>> in this season that fell short of their promise, the exception being
>> ?Survival? and that?s because there wasn?t much promise in that
>> concept to begin with.

>
> The story after Ghost Light (the Curse of the Fenric) wasn't that
> coherent either. The third is the Greatest Show in the Galaxy? Wait,
> that was season 25.
>
> I liked the one where they'd dug out Brigadier Steward again. :)

Battlefield. But how did Arthurian knights cross realities to fight here?
And why? Why was the Doctor Merlin (and when?) And why was the sword
fighting so shite?

There is a cinematic re-edit of Fenric that’s a bit more coherent - I think
it’s the version in the Tales of the TARDIS wrapper on iPlayer?

--
“The timelines and … canon … are rupturing” - the Doctor

[The Last Doctor]

Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
> On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:

>> In article <GYuKCOoLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>> On 15.02.24, The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>>>> Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>
>>>>> Rewatched Ghost Light (Classic episode from season 26), and again
>>>>> I'm going... "What?!"
>

>>>> Light, Control and Josiah were the - crew? - components? - AI
>>>> entities? - of a vessel from another reality. One in which things
>>>> didn?t evolve. Sent to study Earth and getting accidentally stalled
>>>> through time, they experienced the reality of evolution and went a
>>>> bit mad in different ways. And then ?
>>>
>>> Oh, totally missed that other reality bit.
>

>> MM for you!
>
> I guess you don't mean one of a particular sweet?
>

>>> The story after Ghost Light (the Curse of the Fenric) wasn't that
>>> coherent either. The third is the Greatest Show in the Galaxy? Wait,
>>> that was season 25.
>>>
>>> I liked the one where they'd dug out Brigadier Steward again. :)
>

>> If you want incoherent, try snakedane or worse yet Midnight
>> or even worse yet Chibnall's Timeless Child.
>

> Without checking, Snakedance was that with the Kinda? Or the much later
> episode where the evil thing resurfaced from apparently being hidden in
> Teagan? (That last bit was the only thing that bothered me.)

Kinda was the first appearance of the Mara, the psychic snake monster.
Snakedance was its return and is possibly more famous for a very effete
turn by Martin Clunes than anything to do with its rather tgin plot. And
yes, the Mara was dormant in Tegan’s mind. Apparently.

> Midnight, Ten(nant) episode, with Donna relaxing somewhere while he goes
> on some shuttle sight-eeing tour to planet Midnight, and that talky non-
> visible thing takes over some woman? Where they want to expell him into
> no-air planet outside?
>

> I didn't like that episode, but didn't think it so very incoherent. Now
> the Ten(nant) episode I liked least was the one with Absorbalof. Hardly
> any Doctor, boring stupid people not paying attention, and ghastly
> ending.

The Absorbaloff was a child’s winning creation in an alien contest, so RTD
had to find a story in which it worked. I think the alien was pretty poor
and getting Peter Kay to play it didn’t help at all, picking another winner
would have been a better choice.

I didn’t mind the ending, yes it was a bit adult compared to the rest of
the episode, but I’m sure it would have gone over the heads of young
children so no harm done. “Doctor-Lite” is a way of filming two episodes at
the same time and a budget saving exercise (Midnight was shot alongside
Turn Left, so we get one episode essentially without Donna and another
essentially without the Doctor made in the same time scale. Sometimes it
works, sometimes it doesn’t.

>
> That other episode you mention simply doesn't make sense, so it's just
> the Master messing with the Doctor's mind.

No, it wasn’t. I might wish it was. But it wasn’t.

> And even Toymaker confirmed
> that our first Doctor was the actual first Doctor.

Then who are the Doctors shown in the mind battle in “The Brain of
Morbius”? And what did the Doctor mean by saying that he had been, with
Omega and Rassilon, involved in developing the prototype Hand of Omega in
legendary history of the Time Lords? (Remembrance of the Daleks). And when
was the Doctor Merlin? (Battlefield).

And when was the Doctor the Fugitive Doctor, as it is clearly in the
Doctor’s past in the sequences involving battling the Bad Guys in Flux?

> (He'd know! And likes
> jabs at the Doctor.)

Where do you think that was confirmed? I didn’t see any such thing. Indeed
the Toymaker doubled down on the “truth” of the Timeless Children by
referring to the Flux.

Just as the aliens from beyond space in Wild Blue Yonder also affirmed it,
by telling the Doctor that he didn’t know who he was any more.

[The Last Doctor]

Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
> On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>> In article <GYyKVYDLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>> On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>>> In article <GYuKCOoLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>
> [Ghost Light.... WHAT!?]
>>>>> Oh, totally missed that other reality bit.
>>>
>>>> MM for you!
>>>
>>> I guess you don't mean one of a particular sweet?
>
>> MM is Mike McKeown.
>
> Names and I don't get on well, I'd be hard pressed listing all actors
> who played the Doctor, never mind companions or even anyone not seen on
> the show. I barely remember the in-show names of the companions.

Dave “Yads”, “Yellowbeard” Yadallee refuses to stop posting as “the Doctor”
despite being just about the least Doctor-like poster on Usenet.

I am the one he usually refers to as “MM”, posting as “The Last Doctor” in
protest against the absurdity of Yads arrogating a name to himself that is
utterly unfitting.

Others have done a similar thing, amongst them Aggie (whose initials are
AGA and used to post as “Agamemnon”) who now posts as “The True Doctor”
which is ironic as half of what he posts are lies of Trump-like insanity
and the other half reflects views that would be anathema to the Doctor (the
TV character, not Yads). But that’s just my opinion … make your own mind up
on that one!

[Blueshirt]

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <xn0oi5iwx...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:
> > Mickmane wrote:
> >
> >> On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
> <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > That one! THe Master was in it!
> >>
> >> Oh, so then it's just lame. That dude isn't even like vistors or
> >> fish, just plain boring.
> >
> > Dave won't like that... Anthony Ainley and himself were best
> > buds.
> >
> > Where's that famous photo again Dave, I haven't seen it for a few
> > years?
>
> https://www.nk.ca/~doctor/

That's the one! You look very dapper David...

I was never a fan of Ainley's Master though, as far as I was
concerned, Roger Delgado was THE Master!

[Blueshirt]

McCoy was a comedy actor before Doctor Who, so for me his casting
seemed to be all about turning Doctor Who in to a comedy show...
throw in, Bonnie Langford, Kenn Dodd, a Liquorice all-sorts villain,
spoons and "unlimited rice pudding" ... coupled with a pantomime
Producer and yes, Sylvester McCoy made sense. However, the scripts
for the Seventh Doctor were painting a picture of a darker, more
manipulative Doctor who is "more than just a Time Lord". I don't
think Sylvester McCoy had the gravitas for that role at the time and
I look back on a lot of his televised stories as an embarrassment.

[Blueshirt]

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <GZ1LDMB5czB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
> >> In article <xn0oi5ggy...@reader.xsnews.nl>,
> >> Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:
> >
> >>> That doesn't change the fact that the Sylvester McCoy era of
> >>> Doctor Who was crap! McCoy himself was not the man for the job,
> >
> > Why was he not the man for the job?
>
> No justification from Captain Bluebeard Blueshirt!

Look again!

Unlike your hospital my psych ward only allows me access to the
computer room at certain times of the day... so show some patience.

[Blueshirt]

The Last Doctor wrote:

> Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
> > On 15.02.24, The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Light, Control and Josiah were the - crew? - components? - AI
> >> entities? - of a vessel from another reality. One in which
> >> things didn?t evolve. Sent to study Earth and getting
> >> accidentally stalled through time, they experienced the reality
> >> of evolution and went a bit mad in different ways. And then ?
> >
> > Oh, totally missed that other reality bit.
>
> I may have picked that up from the novelisation. Looking back I
> don’t think it was made clear in the show (mind you not much was).

I never read the "Ghost Light" Target novel but of the Seventh
Doctor 'Target' books that I did read, they certainly did help
expand on the televised episodes... especially Ben Aaronovitch's
"Remembrance of the Daleks" novelisation.

When Jon Blum posted here he was always referencing the novels as a
way of explaining the story, despite the fact fans shouldn't have
needed to read a novel to understand the televised episodes. If you
don't know what's going on from watching the episode on-screen then
quite simply it's been badly produced.

[Mickmane]

On 17.02.24, The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
> Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>> On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>> wrote:
>>> In article <GYyKVYDLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>>> On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> In article <GYuKCOoLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:

>> [Ghost Light.... WHAT!?]
>>>>>> Oh, totally missed that other reality bit.
>>>>
>>>>> MM for you!
>>>>
>>>> I guess you don't mean one of a particular sweet?
>>
>>> MM is Mike McKeown.
>>
>> Names and I don't get on well, I'd be hard pressed listing all
>> actors who played the Doctor, never mind companions or even anyone
>> not seen on the show. I barely remember the in-show names of the
>> companions.

> Dave ?Yads?, ?Yellowbeard? Yadallee refuses to stop posting as ?the
> Doctor? despite being just about the least Doctor-like poster on
> Usenet.

He just turns up as "doctor" here, not "the Doctor".

Usenet might be shrinking, but it's still is big. I'm sure I could find
some less Doctor-like posters. :P

> I am the one he usually refers to as ?MM?, posting as ?The Last
> Doctor? in protest against the absurdity of Yads arrogating a name to

> himself that is utterly unfitting.

Oh, another feud here.

> Others have done a similar thing, amongst them Aggie (whose initials

> are AGA and used to post as ?Agamemnon?) who now posts as ?The True
> Doctor? which is ironic as half of what he posts are lies of

> Trump-like insanity and the other half reflects views that would be

> anathema to the Doctor (the TV character, not Yads). But that?s just
> my opinion ? make your own mind up on that one!

I don't think I've seen their posts.

Could be that they ended up in my killfile long ago when posting
somewhere else. I know one not-seen but regularly mentioned name here
sounded familiar, but no posts arrive. Checking revealed that he's in
the killfile.

--

Mickmane

[Mickmane]

On 17.02.24, The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
> Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>> On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>> wrote:

>>> If you want incoherent, try snakedane or worse yet Midnight
>>> or even worse yet Chibnall's Timeless Child.
>>
>> Without checking, Snakedance was that with the Kinda? Or the much
>> later episode where the evil thing resurfaced from apparently being
>> hidden in Teagan? (That last bit was the only thing that bothered
>> me.)

> Kinda was the first appearance of the Mara, the psychic snake
> monster. Snakedance was its return and is possibly more famous for a
> very effete turn by Martin Clunes than anything to do with its rather

> tgin plot. And yes, the Mara was dormant in Tegan?s mind. Apparently.

Ah, so it was the second episode I described.

And yeah, totally out of the blue. :/

No idea who Martin Clunes is. What's "tgin"? (I guess it's a typo, but I
can't figure out for what.)

>> Midnight, [...]

>>
>> I didn't like that episode, but didn't think it so very incoherent.
>> Now the Ten(nant) episode I liked least was the one with Absorbalof.
>> Hardly any Doctor, boring stupid people not paying attention, and
>> ghastly ending.

> The Absorbaloff was a child?s winning creation in an alien contest,

> so RTD had to find a story in which it worked. I think the alien was

> pretty poor and getting Peter Kay to play it didn?t help at all,

> picking another winner would have been a better choice.

Oh. I don't want to pick on any child's imagination. :)

I don't know what exactly the child's creation was, so can't think how
it could have been a better story.

But what bugs me most is that there's hardly any Doctor in the episode.
It's just slightly worse than Blink(*), which also had hardly any Doctor
in it.

(*) I think that was the episode name, first one with the weeping
angels, focussing on some normal people.

Don't like the weeping angels themselves either.

> I didn?t mind the ending, yes it was a bit adult compared to the rest
> of the episode, but I?m sure it would have gone over the heads of

> young children so no harm done.

Not just that, but who'd think it's a satisfying end to live as a rock!?
No eating, no breathing,... Never mind that there's no way to affect
anything at all, can't even turn a page when reading, and no hope of
recovery.

> ?Doctor-Lite? is a way of filming two episodes at the same time and a

> budget saving exercise (Midnight was shot alongside Turn Left, so we
> get one episode essentially without Donna and another essentially
> without the Doctor made in the same time scale. Sometimes it works,

> sometimes it doesn?t.

Oh, I didn't notice that there hardly was any Doctor in Turn Left. It
was an interesting enough episode! (And still had Donna, not just some
nonames.)

>> That other episode you mention simply doesn't make sense, so it's
>> just the Master messing with the Doctor's mind.

> No, it wasn?t. I might wish it was. But it wasn?t.

I'll stick with it. Nothing else makes sense. :)

>> And even Toymaker confirmed that our first Doctor was the actual
>> first Doctor.

> Then who are the Doctors shown in the mind battle in ?The Brain of
> Morbius??

Morbius' faces, of course. Don't know how anyone could think anything
else.

> And what did the Doctor mean by saying that he had been, with Omega
> and Rassilon, involved in developing the prototype Hand of Omega in
> legendary history of the Time Lords? (Remembrance of the Daleks).

Obviously something he remembered, and therefore can't have been pre-
first Doctor.

> And when was the Doctor Merlin? (Battlefield).

In the future, that wasn't filmed due to cancelling the show.

> And when was the Doctor the Fugitive Doctor, as it is clearly in the

> Doctor?s past in the sequences involving battling the Bad Guys in
> Flux?

They're mistaken. (I'll get round to rewatching that, before May surely,
but don't have those episodes clear in my head - too much nonsense!)

>> (He'd know! And likes jabs at the Doctor.)

> Where do you think that was confirmed? I didn?t see any such thing.
> Indeed the Toymaker doubled down on the ?truth? of the Timeless

> Children by referring to the Flux.

I was sure he'd said the first game with the first Doctor.

But all I got now is the script from the Giggle:
"INTERCUT his CU with IMAGES from The Celestial Toymaker (1966). But now
in COLOUR. The First Doctor & the First Toymaker; his robes, his smile,
his power."

Can't find 'Flux' in the script.

> Just as the aliens from beyond space in Wild Blue Yonder also

> affirmed it, by telling the Doctor that he didn?t know who he was any
> more.

Not knowing who he was anymore could mean anything

--

Mickmane

[Mickmane]

On 17.02.24, The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
> Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>> On 15.02.24, The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:

>>> Oh who am I kidding? Cartmel and Pratt were too inexperienced to
>>> carve a coherent story out of their script in the allotted time and
>>> JN-T was as useful as a chocolate teapot in this department as
>>> usual, being too busy making sure the music was shit, turning up
>>> the colour palette to play school level and generally trying to
>>> lower the tone back to season 24 levels.
>>
>> Lol. Ghost-lighting the viewers!
>>
>> Don't know those names though, and Google didn't really help.

> Marc Pratt was the writer, this was his first Doctor Who story (and
> the only one televised to date though he has become a prolific and
> excellent writer for Big Finish - including the very best Cyberman

> origin story to date, ?Spare Parts?, a Fifth Doctor adventure.

> Well worth a listen even if you aren?t usually into radio plays.

I like audioplays, and even plain audiobooks. (Reading a story manually
just got too tedious, and I can do other things while listening,
especially on the balcony in summer.)

I wouldn't know where to start looking for them and any other non-TV
media of Doctor Who, though.

> John Cartmel was the new script editor. He famously had a ?master
> plan? to make the Doctor more Machiavellian and mysterious, with

> origins well before the Hartnell incarnation - and he was supposedly
> grooming (in the not creepy sense of the term) Ace for admission to

> the Time Lord Academy, hence the various ?tests? of her in this

> season, in Ghost Light and The Curse of Fenric.

Weird.

> JN-T is John Nathan-Turner, the man who in my opinion ran Doctor Who

> slowly onto the reefs of oblivion as producer since Tom Baker?s final
> season. He it was who introduced Tom?s burgundy coat, and wanted
> Colin Baker?s costume to be hideously flamboyant and the character to

> become obnoxious. He was responsible for the loud electronic
> background music, the over lit primary colours of everything, and for
> choosing a diminutive obscure Vaudeville comedian with no acting
> skills as the Seventh Doctor, as well as the masses of guest
> appearances from comedians with varying degrees of success - from the
> sublime Tony Selby as Sabalom Glitz to the ridiculous Beryl Reid in
> Earthshock and the pointless Hale and Pace in Survival.

Hm, I think I'll stick to not wanting to know anything about the real
people behind the show. :)

>> I liked the one where they'd dug out Brigadier Steward again. :)

> Battlefield. But how did Arthurian knights cross realities to fight
> here?

Magic? ;P

> And why?

You could apply "Why?" to a lot of Doctor Who. :))))

> Why was the Doctor Merlin (and when?)

In the future he went back to do stuff he'd obviously done in the past,
but it was never filmed.

> And why was the sword fighting so shite?

Was it? I hardly pay attention to such things. :)

> There is a cinematic re-edit of Fenric that?s a bit more coherent - I
> think it?s the version in the Tales of the TARDIS wrapper on iPlayer?

I wouldn't know.

--

Mickmane

[Mickmane]

On 17.02.24, Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:

> Mickmane wrote:
>>> In article <xn0oi5ggy...@reader.xsnews.nl>,
>>> Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:

>>>> That doesn't change the fact that the Sylvester McCoy era of
>>>> Doctor Who was crap! McCoy himself was not the man for the job,
>>
>> Why was he not the man for the job?

> McCoy was a comedy actor before Doctor Who, so for me his casting
> seemed to be all about turning Doctor Who in to a comedy show...
> throw in, Bonnie Langford, Kenn Dodd, a Liquorice all-sorts villain,
> spoons and "unlimited rice pudding" ... coupled with a pantomime
> Producer and yes, Sylvester McCoy made sense.

You lost me.

(Maybe just mention what they did instead of names... Or better, let's
stick to in-show stuff. :) )

> However, the scripts for the Seventh Doctor were painting a picture of
> a darker, more manipulative Doctor who is "more than just a Time
> Lord". I don't think Sylvester McCoy had the gravitas for that role at
> the time and I look back on a lot of his televised stories as an
> embarrassment.

Ah.

I think the Doctor is special enough as he is, one Time Lord among many,
who does his own thing. Trying to make him more would only lessen him.

--

Mickmane

[Blueshirt]

Mickmane wrote:

> On 17.02.24, The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
> > Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>
> >> That other episode you mention simply doesn't make sense, so
> >> it's just the Master messing with the Doctor's mind.
>

> > No, it wasn't. I might wish it was. But it wasn't.

>
> I'll stick with it. Nothing else makes sense. :)

I'm with Mike on this one. It would be nice if it was but it can't
really be that way. It would mean ignoring a whole lot of other
stuff.

> >> And even Toymaker confirmed that our first Doctor was the actual
> >> first Doctor.
>

> > Then who are the Doctors shown in the mind battle in The Brain

> > of Morbius??
>
> Morbius' faces, of course. Don't know how anyone could think
> anything else.

Maybe because the man who Produced the show at that time said so!!!

As far as the Executive Producer of the show was concerned at the
time (Philip Hinchliffe) they were meant to be faces of The Doctor...

This seems to be what Chris Chibnall wanted to expand on during his
era with the Timeless Child, that the Doctor did have previous
incarnations before William Hartnell. Philip Hinchliffe had the same
idea forty years before!!!

Now, I know a lot of it doesn't 'fit' or make a lot of sense, but
these are the ideas various Producers of Doctor Who have had at
various times. The current Executive Producer of Doctor Who, RTD,
might think more like you and think it's all a load tosh, in which
case we'll get an explanation further down the line... and he'll
throw in his own tosh!

[Blueshirt]

Mickmane wrote:
>
> I like audioplays, and even plain audiobooks. (Reading a story
> manually just got too tedious, and I can do other things while
> listening, especially on the balcony in summer.)
>
> I wouldn't know where to start looking for them and any other
> non-TV media of Doctor Who, though.

https://www.bigfinish.com/

[The Doctor]

In article <uqqopl$glbb$1...@dont-email.me>,

The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>> On 15.02.24, The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>>> Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>
>>>> Rewatched Ghost Light (Classic episode from season 26), and again
>>>> I'm going... "What?!"
>>>>
>>>> What were the aliens, why were they there, what happened!? :)
>>>>
>>>> All I know is that the Doctor and Ace were there, and that she'd
>>>> burned down the house when younger, in the future, due to a
>>>> lingering sense of evil or something. _That_ I understand. The
>>>> rest... not so much.
>>
>>> Light, Control and Josiah were the - crew? - components? - AI
>>> entities? - of a vessel from another reality. One in which things
>>> didn?t evolve. Sent to study Earth and getting accidentally stalled
>>> through time, they experienced the reality of evolution and went a
>>> bit mad in different ways. And then ?
>>
>> Oh, totally missed that other reality bit.
>
>I may have picked that up from the novelisation. Looking back I don’t think
>it was made clear in the show (mind you not much was).
>

You need to pay closer attention!

So are you doing a Chris Chibnall a la On Air?

>>
>>> Result - a colourful, incoherent, confused mess. One of three stories
>>> in this season that fell short of their promise, the exception being
>>> ?Survival? and that?s because there wasn?t much promise in that
>>> concept to begin with.
>>
>> The story after Ghost Light (the Curse of the Fenric) wasn't that
>> coherent either. The third is the Greatest Show in the Galaxy? Wait,
>> that was season 25.
>>
>> I liked the one where they'd dug out Brigadier Steward again. :)
>
>Battlefield. But how did Arthurian knights cross realities to fight here?
>And why? Why was the Doctor Merlin (and when?) And why was the sword
>fighting so shite?
>
>There is a cinematic re-edit of Fenric that’s a bit more coherent - I think
>it’s the version in the Tales of the TARDIS wrapper on iPlayer?
>

WEll there you are.

>--
>“The timelines and … canon … are rupturing” - the Doctor

[The Doctor]

In article <uqqqd7$gvl8$1...@dont-email.me>,

For quite some time!

>
>> Midnight, Ten(nant) episode, with Donna relaxing somewhere while he goes
>> on some shuttle sight-eeing tour to planet Midnight, and that talky non-
>> visible thing takes over some woman? Where they want to expell him into
>> no-air planet outside?
>>
>> I didn't like that episode, but didn't think it so very incoherent. Now
>> the Ten(nant) episode I liked least was the one with Absorbalof. Hardly
>> any Doctor, boring stupid people not paying attention, and ghastly
>> ending.
>
>The Absorbaloff was a child’s winning creation in an alien contest, so RTD
>had to find a story in which it worked. I think the alien was pretty poor
>and getting Peter Kay to play it didn’t help at all, picking another winner
>would have been a better choice.
>
>I didn’t mind the ending, yes it was a bit adult compared to the rest of
>the episode, but I’m sure it would have gone over the heads of young
>children so no harm done. “Doctor-Lite” is a way of filming two episodes at
>the same time and a budget saving exercise (Midnight was shot alongside
>Turn Left, so we get one episode essentially without Donna and another
>essentially without the Doctor made in the same time scale. Sometimes it
>works, sometimes it doesn’t.
>

Lamer!

>>
>> That other episode you mention simply doesn't make sense, so it's just
>> the Master messing with the Doctor's mind.
>
>No, it wasn’t. I might wish it was. But it wasn’t.
>
>> And even Toymaker confirmed
>> that our first Doctor was the actual first Doctor.
>
>Then who are the Doctors shown in the mind battle in “The Brain of
>Morbius”? And what did the Doctor mean by saying that he had been, with
>Omega and Rassilon, involved in developing the prototype Hand of Omega in
>legendary history of the Time Lords? (Remembrance of the Daleks). And when
>was the Doctor Merlin? (Battlefield).
>
>And when was the Doctor the Fugitive Doctor, as it is clearly in the
>Doctor’s past in the sequences involving battling the Bad Guys in Flux?
>
>> (He'd know! And likes
>> jabs at the Doctor.)
>
>Where do you think that was confirmed? I didn’t see any such thing. Indeed
>the Toymaker doubled down on the “truth” of the Timeless Children by
>referring to the Flux.
>
>Just as the aliens from beyond space in Wild Blue Yonder also affirmed it,
>by telling the Doctor that he didn’t know who he was any more.
>

sO MM meet MM!

>--
>“The timelines and … canon … are rupturing” - the Doctor

[The Doctor]

In article <uqqqok$h2l3$1...@dont-email.me>,

The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:

>Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>> On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>>> In article <GYyKVYDLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>>> On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> In article <GYuKCOoLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>
>> [Ghost Light.... WHAT!?]
>>>>>> Oh, totally missed that other reality bit.
>>>>
>>>>> MM for you!
>>>>
>>>> I guess you don't mean one of a particular sweet?
>>
>>> MM is Mike McKeown.
>>
>> Names and I don't get on well, I'd be hard pressed listing all actors
>> who played the Doctor, never mind companions or even anyone not seen on
>> the show. I barely remember the in-show names of the companions.
>
>Dave “Yads”, “Yellowbeard” Yadallee refuses to stop posting as
>“the Doctor”
>despite being just about the least Doctor-like poster on Usenet.
>

That is your opinion.

>I am the one he usually refers to as “MM”, posting as “The Last
>Doctor” in
>protest against the absurdity of Yads arrogating a name to himself that is
>utterly unfitting.
>

IYIO

>Others have done a similar thing, amongst them Aggie (whose initials are
>AGA and used to post as “Agamemnon”) who now posts as “The True Doctor”
>which is ironic as half of what he posts are lies of Trump-like insanity
>and the other half reflects views that would be anathema to the Doctor (the
>TV character, not Yads). But that’s just my opinion … make your own mind up
>on that one!
>

Exactly!

>--
>“The timelines and … canon … are rupturing” - the Doctor

[The Doctor]

In article <xn0oi6y0g...@news.eternal-september.org>,

You and I both!

[The Doctor]

In article <xn0oi6ym2...@news.eternal-september.org>,

Well he beat out everyone in the auditions!

He also came back in 1996!

[The Doctor]

In article <xn0oi6z2b...@news.eternal-september.org>,

I just saw your post.

I still say no justification.

[The Doctor]

In article <xn0oi6zah...@news.eternal-september.org>,

Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:
>The Last Doctor wrote:
>
>> Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>> > On 15.02.24, The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Light, Control and Josiah were the - crew? - components? - AI
>> >> entities? - of a vessel from another reality. One in which
>> >> things didn?t evolve. Sent to study Earth and getting
>> >> accidentally stalled through time, they experienced the reality
>> >> of evolution and went a bit mad in different ways. And then ?
>> >
>> > Oh, totally missed that other reality bit.
>>
>> I may have picked that up from the novelisation. Looking back I
>> don’t think it was made clear in the show (mind you not much was).
>
>I never read the "Ghost Light" Target novel but of the Seventh
>Doctor 'Target' books that I did read, they certainly did help
>expand on the televised episodes... especially Ben Aaronovitch's
>"Remembrance of the Daleks" novelisation.

Image if Resuurection of the Daleks never saw the day of light!

>
>When Jon Blum posted here he was always referencing the novels as a
>way of explaining the story, despite the fact fans shouldn't have
>needed to read a novel to understand the televised episodes. If you
>don't know what's going on from watching the episode on-screen then
>quite simply it's been badly produced.

Jon and Kate. I wonder how the are these days?

[The Doctor]

In article <GZ1LbIcaczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>On 17.02.24, The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>> Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>> On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>>> wrote:
>
>>>> If you want incoherent, try snakedane or worse yet Midnight
>>>> or even worse yet Chibnall's Timeless Child.
>>>
>>> Without checking, Snakedance was that with the Kinda? Or the much
>>> later episode where the evil thing resurfaced from apparently being
>>> hidden in Teagan? (That last bit was the only thing that bothered
>>> me.)
>
>> Kinda was the first appearance of the Mara, the psychic snake
>> monster. Snakedance was its return and is possibly more famous for a
>> very effete turn by Martin Clunes than anything to do with its rather
>> tgin plot. And yes, the Mara was dormant in Tegan?s mind. Apparently.
>
>Ah, so it was the second episode I described.
>
>And yeah, totally out of the blue. :/
>

Now you got it!

>No idea who Martin Clunes is. What's "tgin"? (I guess it's a typo, but I
>can't figure out for what.)
>

IMDB

>>> Midnight, [...]
>>>
>>> I didn't like that episode, but didn't think it so very incoherent.
>>> Now the Ten(nant) episode I liked least was the one with Absorbalof.
>>> Hardly any Doctor, boring stupid people not paying attention, and
>>> ghastly ending.
>
>> The Absorbaloff was a child?s winning creation in an alien contest,
>> so RTD had to find a story in which it worked. I think the alien was
>> pretty poor and getting Peter Kay to play it didn?t help at all,
>> picking another winner would have been a better choice.
>
>Oh. I don't want to pick on any child's imagination. :)
>
>I don't know what exactly the child's creation was, so can't think how
>it could have been a better story.
>
>But what bugs me most is that there's hardly any Doctor in the episode.
>It's just slightly worse than Blink(*), which also had hardly any Doctor
>in it.
>
>(*) I think that was the episode name, first one with the weeping
>angels, focussing on some normal people.
>

Love and Monsters suck!

>Don't like the weeping angels themselves either.
>

Blink rocks!

>> I didn?t mind the ending, yes it was a bit adult compared to the rest
>> of the episode, but I?m sure it would have gone over the heads of
>> young children so no harm done.
>
>Not just that, but who'd think it's a satisfying end to live as a rock!?
>No eating, no breathing,... Never mind that there's no way to affect
>anything at all, can't even turn a page when reading, and no hope of
>recovery.
>

Please!

>> ?Doctor-Lite? is a way of filming two episodes at the same time and a
>> budget saving exercise (Midnight was shot alongside Turn Left, so we
>> get one episode essentially without Donna and another essentially
>> without the Doctor made in the same time scale. Sometimes it works,
>> sometimes it doesn?t.
>
>Oh, I didn't notice that there hardly was any Doctor in Turn Left. It
>was an interesting enough episode! (And still had Donna, not just some
>nonames.)
>

It was one of the best after the disappointing Midnight.

>>> That other episode you mention simply doesn't make sense, so it's
>>> just the Master messing with the Doctor's mind.
>
>> No, it wasn?t. I might wish it was. But it wasn?t.
>
>I'll stick with it. Nothing else makes sense. :)
>
>>> And even Toymaker confirmed that our first Doctor was the actual
>>> first Doctor.
>
>> Then who are the Doctors shown in the mind battle in ?The Brain of
>> Morbius??
>
>Morbius' faces, of course. Don't know how anyone could think anything
>else.
>

Exactly!

Just 4 Doctors!

>> And what did the Doctor mean by saying that he had been, with Omega
>> and Rassilon, involved in developing the prototype Hand of Omega in
>> legendary history of the Time Lords? (Remembrance of the Daleks).
>
>Obviously something he remembered, and therefore can't have been pre-
>first Doctor.

Logical!

>
>> And when was the Doctor Merlin? (Battlefield).
>
>In the future, that wasn't filmed due to cancelling the show.
>

Boo on JPowell!

>> And when was the Doctor the Fugitive Doctor, as it is clearly in the
>> Doctor?s past in the sequences involving battling the Bad Guys in
>> Flux?
>
>They're mistaken. (I'll get round to rewatching that, before May surely,
>but don't have those episodes clear in my head - too much nonsense!)
>

Just think of the Timeless Child as not being part of Dcotor Who!

>>> (He'd know! And likes jabs at the Doctor.)
>
>> Where do you think that was confirmed? I didn?t see any such thing.
>> Indeed the Toymaker doubled down on the ?truth? of the Timeless
>> Children by referring to the Flux.
>
>I was sure he'd said the first game with the first Doctor.
>
>But all I got now is the script from the Giggle:
>"INTERCUT his CU with IMAGES from The Celestial Toymaker (1966). But now
> in COLOUR. The First Doctor & the First Toymaker; his robes, his smile,
> his power."
>
>Can't find 'Flux' in the script.
>

You do not want to!

>> Just as the aliens from beyond space in Wild Blue Yonder also
>> affirmed it, by telling the Doctor that he didn?t know who he was any
>> more.
>
>Not knowing who he was anymore could mean anything
>

Wild Blue Yonder was a pantomime!

>--
>
>Mickmane

[The Doctor]

In article <GZ1Lb7qaczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>On 17.02.24, The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>> Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>> On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>>> In article <GYyKVYDLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>>>> On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> In article <GYuKCOoLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>
>>> [Ghost Light.... WHAT!?]
>>>>>>> Oh, totally missed that other reality bit.
>>>>>
>>>>>> MM for you!
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess you don't mean one of a particular sweet?
>>>
>>>> MM is Mike McKeown.
>>>
>>> Names and I don't get on well, I'd be hard pressed listing all
>>> actors who played the Doctor, never mind companions or even anyone
>>> not seen on the show. I barely remember the in-show names of the
>>> companions.
>
>> Dave ?Yads?, ?Yellowbeard? Yadallee refuses to stop posting as ?the
>> Doctor? despite being just about the least Doctor-like poster on
>> Usenet.
>
>He just turns up as "doctor" here, not "the Doctor".
>
>Usenet might be shrinking, but it's still is big. I'm sure I could find
>some less Doctor-like posters. :P
>

LOL!

>> I am the one he usually refers to as ?MM?, posting as ?The Last
>> Doctor? in protest against the absurdity of Yads arrogating a name to
>> himself that is utterly unfitting.
>
>Oh, another feud here.
>

Always!

>> Others have done a similar thing, amongst them Aggie (whose initials
>> are AGA and used to post as ?Agamemnon?) who now posts as ?The True
>> Doctor? which is ironic as half of what he posts are lies of
>> Trump-like insanity and the other half reflects views that would be
>> anathema to the Doctor (the TV character, not Yads). But that?s just
>> my opinion ? make your own mind up on that one!
>
>I don't think I've seen their posts.
>
>Could be that they ended up in my killfile long ago when posting
>somewhere else. I know one not-seen but regularly mentioned name here
>sounded familiar, but no posts arrive. Checking revealed that he's in
>the killfile.
>

Who?

[The Doctor]

The Anti-JNT faction can really get annoying!

[The Doctor]

In article <xn0oi70gt...@news.eternal-september.org>,

Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:
>Mickmane wrote:
>
>> On 17.02.24, The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>> > Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>
>> >> That other episode you mention simply doesn't make sense, so
>> >> it's just the Master messing with the Doctor's mind.
>>
>> > No, it wasn't. I might wish it was. But it wasn't.
>>
>> I'll stick with it. Nothing else makes sense. :)
>
>I'm with Mike on this one. It would be nice if it was but it can't
>really be that way. It would mean ignoring a whole lot of other
>stuff.

Can logic apply?

>
>> >> And even Toymaker confirmed that our first Doctor was the actual
>> >> first Doctor.
>>
>> > Then who are the Doctors shown in the mind battle in The Brain
>> > of Morbius??
>>
>> Morbius' faces, of course. Don't know how anyone could think
>> anything else.
>
>Maybe because the man who Produced the show at that time said so!!!
>
>As far as the Executive Producer of the show was concerned at the
>time (Philip Hinchliffe) they were meant to be faces of The Doctor...
>
>This seems to be what Chris Chibnall wanted to expand on during his
>era with the Timeless Child, that the Doctor did have previous
>incarnations before William Hartnell. Philip Hinchliffe had the same
>idea forty years before!!!
>
>Now, I know a lot of it doesn't 'fit' or make a lot of sense, but
>these are the ideas various Producers of Doctor Who have had at
>various times. The current Executive Producer of Doctor Who, RTD,
>might think more like you and think it's all a load tosh, in which
>case we'll get an explanation further down the line... and he'll
>throw in his own tosh!

What a botch!

[The Doctor]

In article <xn0oi70hm...@news.eternal-september.org>,

Nice place!

[The Last Doctor]

Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
> On 17.02.24, The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>> Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>> On 15.02.24, The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>
>>>> Oh who am I kidding? Cartmel and Pratt were too inexperienced to
>>>> carve a coherent story out of their script in the allotted time and
>>>> JN-T was as useful as a chocolate teapot in this department as
>>>> usual, being too busy making sure the music was shit, turning up
>>>> the colour palette to play school level and generally trying to
>>>> lower the tone back to season 24 levels.
>>>
>>> Lol. Ghost-lighting the viewers!
>>>
>>> Don't know those names though, and Google didn't really help.
>
>> Marc Pratt was the writer, this was his first Doctor Who story (and
>> the only one televised to date though he has become a prolific and
>> excellent writer for Big Finish - including the very best Cyberman
>> origin story to date, ?Spare Parts?, a Fifth Doctor adventure.
>
>> Well worth a listen even if you aren?t usually into radio plays.
>
> I like audioplays, and even plain audiobooks. (Reading a story manually
> just got too tedious, and I can do other things while listening,
> especially on the balcony in summer.)
>
> I wouldn't know where to start looking for them and any other non-TV
> media of Doctor Who, though.

There’s a fair few usually available on Spotify for free, including Spare
Parts.

Audible carries a lot but there’s a subscription charge after a month.
Could listen to some during a free trial though.

Big Finish is the main production company- 25 years of output and going
strong - but not much is free from them. Downloads of the older stuff are
often pretty affordable though - Spare Parts is £2.99 for example, not bad
for a 2 hour 4-part serial…

And the usual piratical means are of course available …

[Blueshirt]

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <xn0oi6ym2...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:
> >
> > McCoy was a comedy actor before Doctor Who, so for me his casting
> > seemed to be all about turning Doctor Who in to a comedy show...

> > throw in, Bonnie Langford, Ken Dodd, a Liquorice all-sorts

> > villain, spoons and "unlimited rice pudding" ... coupled with a
> > pantomime Producer and yes, Sylvester McCoy made sense. However,
> > the scripts for the Seventh Doctor were painting a picture of a
> > darker, more manipulative Doctor who is "more than just a Time
> > Lord". I don't think Sylvester McCoy had the gravitas for that
> > role at the time and I look back on a lot of his televised
> > stories as an embarrassment.
>
> Well he beat out everyone in the auditions!

The S24 Blu-Ray Collection had the full audition tapes of the other
actors up for the part of the Seventh Doctor, with Janet Fielding
playing Mel Bush. From what I saw, Dermot Crowley was the better
actor, and he'd have made a fine Doctor.

Clearly JNT wanted the comedic acting style of Sylvester McCoy
though.

Andrew Cartmel's 'fresh' ideas of the Doctor were wasted on McCoy.

> He also came back in 1996!

Aye, I loved that. Especially the bit where he got shot!

[Blueshirt]

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <xn0oi6zah...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:
> >
> > When Jon Blum posted here he was always referencing the novels
> > as a way of explaining the story, despite the fact fans
> > shouldn't have needed to read a novel to understand the
> > televised episodes. If you don't know what's going on from
> > watching the episode on-screen then quite simply it's been badly
> > produced.
>
> Jon and Kate. I wonder how the are these days?

Kate was a good contributor here, she's still writing Doctor Who
stuff. She wrote the "Doctor Who: The Dead Star" audiobook for Big
Finish which was released last year. (Narrated by Michael Troughton)
Hubby was the clown... "oh but if you had read page 72 of the novel
you'd have seen that blah blah blah"...

It's a TV show numbnuts, you shouldn't need a book to understand a
TV show!!!

[Blueshirt]

The Doctor wrote:

>
> The Anti-JNT faction can really get annoying!

They're nearly as bad as the anti-Chibnall faction!

[Blueshirt]

The Last Doctor wrote:

> Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
> >

> > I wouldn't know where to start looking for them and any other
> > non-TV media of Doctor Who, though.
>
> There’s a fair few usually available on Spotify for free,
> including Spare Parts.

IIRC the first fifty 'Doctor Who Main Range' releases are on Spotify.

Which is a good place to start!

[The Doctor]

In article <uqrg7k$lcvd$1...@dont-email.me>,

Some archives might have some audios.

>--
>“The timelines and … canon … are rupturing” - the Doctor

[The Doctor]

In article <xn0oi7gcc...@news.eternal-september.org>,

Then was Syl and not Dermot?

>> He also came back in 1996!
>
>Aye, I loved that. Especially the bit where he got shot!

You would Captain BlueBeard!

[The Doctor]

In article <xn0oi7gjn...@news.eternal-september.org>,

Her and Jon.

>It's a TV show numbnuts, you shouldn't need a book to understand a
>TV show!!!

Who are you quoting?

[The Doctor]

In article <xn0oi7gur...@news.eternal-september.org>,

on Air just after Trial of a Timelord!

The anti-Chibnallers have more of apoint than the anti-JNTers!

[The Doctor]

In article <xn0oi7hcl...@news.eternal-september.org>,

Thank you!

[Daniel65]

Mickmane wrote on 18/2/24 7:50 am:

> On 17.02.24, The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>> Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:

>>> On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
>>> <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>>>> If you want incoherent, try snakedane or worse yet Midnight or
>>>> even worse yet Chibnall's Timeless Child.
>>>
>>> Without checking, Snakedance was that with the Kinda? Or the
>>> much later episode where the evil thing resurfaced from
>>> apparently being hidden in Teagan? (That last bit was the only
>>> thing that bothered me.)
>
>> Kinda was the first appearance of the Mara, the psychic snake
>> monster. Snakedance was its return and is possibly more famous for
>> a very effete turn by Martin Clunes than anything to do with its
>> rather tgin plot. And yes, the Mara was dormant in Tegan?s mind.
>> Apparently.
>
> Ah, so it was the second episode I described.
>
> And yeah, totally out of the blue. :/
>

> No idea who Martin Clunes is. What's "tgin"? (I guess it's a typo,
> but I can't figure out for what.)

Martin Clunes
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0167340/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_7_nm_1_q_Martin%2520Clunes

He played the Main Character in the 'Doc Martin' TV Series .... and has
lately been doing Tourist-type Series on the Islands of The Pacific and
around North America.

And I'm thinking 'tgin' might have been a misspelling of 'thin'!!
--
Daniel

[The Last Doctor]

Thin, yes. Missed the typo.

Clunes was also the lead in long running British sitcom “Men Behaving
Badly”, and was the (offscreen, but on lunchboxes) obsession of the
Japanese schoolgirls in “Come Fly With Me”.

[Daniel65]

The Doctor wrote on 18/2/24 2:03 am:
> In article <uqprtv$b4gi$1...@dont-email.me>, Daniel65
> <dani...@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>> The Doctor wrote on 17/2/24 9:55 am:
>>> In article <xn0oi5iwx...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>> Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:

>>>> Mickmane wrote:
>>>>> On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
>>>>> <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>>

>>>>>> That one! THe Master was in it!
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh, so then it's just lame. That dude isn't even like vistors
>>>>> or fish, just plain boring.
>>>>
>>>> Dave won't like that... Anthony Ainley and himself were best
>>>> buds.
>>>>
>>>> Where's that famous photo again Dave, I haven't seen it for a
>>>> few years?
>>>
>>> https://www.nk.ca/~doctor/
>>>

>> "costume contast"?? What's a 'contast', "Yellow Beard Yadallee"??
>>
>> "This Page is based on the personality of Dave Yadallee" .... So
>> that would be a *ZERO* then, "Yellow Beard Yadallee"!!
>>
>> "Dave believes in completeness, so never say a Domain is a Web Page
>> URL!!"!!
>>
>> "World wide Web PAge"?? The same old "Yellow Beard Yadallee"!!
>> "PAge"!!
>>
>> "For a Web Page, develop for a 486 with 8 MB of RAM and you got
>> it,otherwise chug, chug, and go to sleep while waiting." ??
>> "Yellow Beard Yadallee" must be sooooo busy with his Toastmaster
>> friends that he can't even update *HIS* webpage .... even if he has
>> the knowledge to do it!!
>>
>> "BBC announces ninth doctor"!! WOW!! Up-to-date!!
>
> Well then you can click on the blog link Red-bearded Dannyboy!

DO UPI NOT EVEN NOTICE THE PROBLEMS i PICKED UP WITH *YOUR* WEBPAGE,
"Yellow Beard Yadallee"??
--
Daniel

[Daniel65]

Mickmane wrote on 17/2/24 7:42 pm:

> On 17.02.24, Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:
>> Mickmane wrote:
>>> On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
>>> <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>>>> That one! THe Master was in it!
>>>
>>> Oh, so then it's just lame. That dude isn't even like vistors or
>>> fish, just plain boring.
>
>> Dave won't like that... Anthony Ainley and himself were best buds.
>

> More names. Google helped. Dave is doctor?

*NO* !! *NO* !! *NO*!! David Yaddllee just like to think if himself as
being as important as a REAL DOCTOR!!

> Did they actually know each other, or is doctor just a fan?

Dave was just a FAN .... and isn't ever actor GLAD that they have FANS??

>> Where's that famous photo again Dave, I haven't seen it for a few
>> years?
>

> Oh, photo indicates real life meeting.

Yeap, they happen .... but Dave probably paid for it with Mummy's money.

> But what the actors do could at best not ruin my enjoyment of a TV
> series or film. I prefer not to know anything about them.
>
> For me, what counts are the characters. Not the actor's fault if
> they are written lame.
>
Correct!
--
Daniel

[Mickmane]

On 18.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
> In article <GZ1Lb7qaczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:

>> I know one not-seen but regularly mentioned name here sounded
>> familiar, but no posts arrive. Checking revealed that he's in the
>> killfile.

> Who?

If I wanted to name and shame, I'd have mentioned the name. :P

--

Mickmane

[Mickmane]

On 18.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:

> In article <GZ1LbIcaczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>> On 17.02.24, The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>>> Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>>> On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>>>> wrote:

>> Don't like the weeping angels themselves either.

> Blink rocks!

Yeah, some carved rocks being propped up to supposedly look scary didn't
really impress me. :P

>>> And when was the Doctor the Fugitive Doctor, as it is clearly in
>>> the Doctor?s past in the sequences involving battling the Bad Guys
>>> in Flux?
>>
>> They're mistaken. (I'll get round to rewatching that, before May
>> surely, but don't have those episodes clear in my head - too much
>> nonsense!)

> Just think of the Timeless Child as not being part of Dcotor Who!

Oh, I already do think it's just the Master messing with the Doctor.

>>> Just as the aliens from beyond space in Wild Blue Yonder also
>>> affirmed it, by telling the Doctor that he didn?t know who he was
>>> any more.
>>
>> Not knowing who he was anymore could mean anything

> Wild Blue Yonder was a pantomime!

?

What do you mean by that?

--

Mickmane

[Mickmane]

On 18.02.24, The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
> Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:

>> I like audioplays, and even plain audiobooks. (Reading a story
>> manually just got too tedious, and I can do other things while
>> listening, especially on the balcony in summer.)
>>
>> I wouldn't know where to start looking for them and any other non-TV
>> media of Doctor Who, though.

> There?s a fair few usually available on Spotify for free, including
> Spare Parts.

> Audible carries a lot but there?s a subscription charge after a

> month. Could listen to some during a free trial though.

I'm not on either of those things. Weird internet/mobile phone stuff. :P

> Big Finish is the main production company- 25 years of output and
> going strong - but not much is free from them. Downloads of the older
> stuff are often pretty affordable though - Spare Parts is £2.99 for

> example, not bad for a 2 hour 4-part serial?

Blueshirt posted a link. :)

Not sure about those prices. It's not TV, so only half-"real", and I
have a pile of stuff to listen to already, so it's not that big a
priority.

> And the usual piratical means are of course available ?

I don't want to know about those things!

--

Mickmane

[Mickmane]

On 18.02.24, Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:
> Mickmane wrote:

>> On 17.02.24, The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>>> Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:

>>>> That other episode you mention simply doesn't make sense, so
>>>> it's just the Master messing with the Doctor's mind.
>>
>>> No, it wasn't. I might wish it was. But it wasn't.
>>
>> I'll stick with it. Nothing else makes sense. :)

> I'm with Mike on this one. It would be nice if it was but it can't
> really be that way. It would mean ignoring a whole lot of other
> stuff.

That's ok, I'm used to being on my own with my take on things. :)

>>>> And even Toymaker confirmed that our first Doctor was the actual
>>>> first Doctor.
>>
>>> Then who are the Doctors shown in the mind battle in The Brain
>>> of Morbius??
>>
>> Morbius' faces, of course. Don't know how anyone could think
>> anything else.

> Maybe because the man who Produced the show at that time said so!!!

If it's not in the series, it's not real. ;P

Like, "gif or it didn't happen!"

> As far as the Executive Producer of the show was concerned at the
> time (Philip Hinchliffe) they were meant to be faces of The Doctor...

> This seems to be what Chris Chibnall wanted to expand on during his
> era with the Timeless Child, that the Doctor did have previous
> incarnations before William Hartnell. Philip Hinchliffe had the same
> idea forty years before!!!

I wouldn't mind if it were some actual Doctors before the first one we
saw, but that whole Timeless Child thing is just ridiculous. And lessens
the Doctor being special and grand, doing his own thing.

Doctor having extra faces before Hartnell -that he remembers- also is
incompatible with that (censored) Timeless Child thing.

> Now, I know a lot of it doesn't 'fit' or make a lot of sense, but
> these are the ideas various Producers of Doctor Who have had at
> various times. The current Executive Producer of Doctor Who, RTD,
> might think more like you and think it's all a load tosh, in which
> case we'll get an explanation further down the line... and he'll
> throw in his own tosh!

I can only hope! :)

--

Mickmane

[Mickmane]

On 18.02.24, Daniel65 <dani...@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
> Mickmane wrote on 18/2/24 7:50 am:

>> No idea who Martin Clunes is. What's "tgin"? (I guess it's a typo,
>> but I can't figure out for what.)

> Martin Clunes
> https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0167340/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_7_nm_1_q_Ma
> rtin%2520Clunes

> He played the Main Character in the 'Doc Martin' TV Series .... and
> has lately been doing Tourist-type Series on the Islands of The
> Pacific and around North America.

Hm, would more help to say who he played in Doctor Who. :P

> And I'm thinking 'tgin' might have been a misspelling of 'thin'!!

Makes sense.

--

Mickmane

[Mickmane]

On 18.02.24, Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:
> Mickmane wrote:

>> I like audioplays, and even plain audiobooks. (Reading a story
>> manually just got too tedious, and I can do other things while
>> listening, especially on the balcony in summer.)
>>
>> I wouldn't know where to start looking for them and any other
>> non-TV media of Doctor Who, though.

> https://www.bigfinish.com/

Thanks. :) Bookmarked. Too bad they're not in the public library though.
Weighing the prices versus them 'only' being audiobooks/plays, and that
I still have tons to listen to already... Not something I'll get to
soon.

--

Mickmane

[The Last Doctor]

But IMO, DON’T start with #1, “The Sirens of Time”.

This was an ambitious attempt to kick start Doctor Who audios with a
multi-Doctor adventure featuring the three Doctors Big Finish could secure
at the start (Davison, Colin Baker and McCoy) but the result - three
seemingly unconnected episodes each featuring a different Doctor and a
finale with all three Doctors - was a bit confused and hard to track.

It’s a style of story that has vastly improved down the years (The Light at
the End and The Legacy of Time share this sort of format and are excellent)
but this first one wasn’t in my view a triumph. It’s OK once you’re used to
Big Finish … but as an introduction, not the best.

Listen to a few single-Doctor stories before this one.

[The Last Doctor]

The list of friends that Paul McGann’s Eighth Doctor rattles off in the
50th anniversary mini episode “Night of the Doctor” before he regenerates
into a young John Hurt War Doctor are all Big Finish characters.

They do sales sometimes, have seen those early adventures for 99p each
sometimes.

>
>> And the usual piratical means are of course available ?
>
> I don't want to know about those things!
>

Good man.

BBC Sounds always has a few up for free as well, but the selection
available is a bit random - some Tennant/Tate, some Chris Eccleston, one
first Doctor story, one second Doctor story (Fraser Hines as both the
Second Doctor and Jamie is uncannily good by the way) and a couple of other
oddities - a 4th and 10th Doctor crossover with Tennant and Tom Baker, for
example.

[Daniel65]

Mickmane wrote on 18/2/24 9:13 pm:

Probably a good move, too, Mickmane ...... cause if you had given the
name, you could just about Guarantee that "Yellow Beard Yadallee" would
start replying to every post made in this newsgroup by the Mystery
poster .... just so you would see all the posts.

What am I typing ... The "Yellow Beard Yadallee" would reply to them
anyway, you know, just to increase his All Important Precious Post Count!!
--
Daniel

[Daniel65]

The Last Doctor wrote on 18/2/24 10:22 pm:

> Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:
>> The Last Doctor wrote:
>>
>>> Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I wouldn't know where to start looking for them and any other
>>>> non-TV media of Doctor Who, though.
>>>
>>> There’s a fair few usually available on Spotify for free,
>>> including Spare Parts.
>>
>> IIRC the first fifty 'Doctor Who Main Range' releases are on
>> Spotify.
>>
>> Which is a good place to start!
>
> But IMO, DON’T start with #1, “The Sirens of Time”.
>
> This was an ambitious attempt to kick start Doctor Who audios with a
> multi-Doctor adventure featuring the three Doctors Big Finish could
> secure at the start (Davison, Colin Baker and McCoy) but the result -
> three seemingly unconnected episodes each featuring a different
> Doctor and a finale with all three Doctors - was a bit confused and
> hard to track.

Hmm! Sounds like one of my favourite Albums .... Emerson, Lake and
Palmer (ELP) "WORKS"!! Double album, Side 1 Keith Emerson on Piano, Side
2 Greg Lake on Guitar, Side 3 Carl Palmer and his Drums .... then Side
4, ELP, just two tracks, "Fanfare for the Common Man" and "Pirates"!!

*WOW* !! Brilliant!!

So good (i.e. Popular) that 'they' re-branded 'Works' as 'Works Vol !'
and then quickly followed up (two months, maybe three months later) with
'Works Vol 11', which is also splendid!!
--
Daniel

[Daniel65]

Daniel65 wrote on 18/2/24 8:46 pm:

> The Doctor wrote on 18/2/24 2:03 am:
>> In article <uqprtv$b4gi$1...@dont-email.me>, Daniel65
>> <dani...@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

<Snip>

>>> "BBC announces ninth doctor"!! WOW!! Up-to-date!!
>>
>> Well then you can click on the blog link Red-bearded Dannyboy!
>
> DO UPI NOT EVEN NOTICE THE PROBLEMS i PICKED UP WITH *YOUR* WEBPAGE,
> "Yellow Beard Yadallee"??

s/SO YOU/DO UPI .... One correct letter out of five!! I know all the
markings on the keyboard keys are disappearing but that is ridiculous!!
I can accept 'DO' is a word but I wonder what the hell my spell-checker
thought 'UPI' was!!

Oh! Hang on! UPI is a Postal Service somewhere, isn't it??
--
Daniel

[The Doctor]

In article <uqshqp$vljv$1...@dont-email.me>,

Or Tegan.

>--
>Daniel

[The Doctor]

In article <uqsjlc$vuu6$1...@dont-email.me>,

upi?

[The Doctor]

In article <uqsk6p$103cr$1...@dont-email.me>,

Daniel65 <dani...@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>Mickmane wrote on 17/2/24 7:42 pm:
>> On 17.02.24, Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:
>>> Mickmane wrote:
>>>> On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
>>>> <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>>> That one! THe Master was in it!
>>>>
>>>> Oh, so then it's just lame. That dude isn't even like vistors or
>>>> fish, just plain boring.
>>
>>> Dave won't like that... Anthony Ainley and himself were best buds.
>>
>> More names. Google helped. Dave is doctor?
>
>*NO* !! *NO* !! *NO*!! David Yaddllee just like to think if himself as
>being as important as a REAL DOCTOR!!
>

IYIO!

>> Did they actually know each other, or is doctor just a fan?
>
>Dave was just a FAN .... and isn't ever actor GLAD that they have FANS??
>

And then there is visions 1993.

>>> Where's that famous photo again Dave, I haven't seen it for a few
>>> years?
>>
>> Oh, photo indicates real life meeting.
>
>Yeap, they happen .... but Dave probably paid for it with Mummy's money.
>

You think red-beard?

>> But what the actors do could at best not ruin my enjoyment of a TV
>> series or film. I prefer not to know anything about them.
>>
>> For me, what counts are the characters. Not the actor's fault if
>> they are written lame.
>>
>Correct!
>--
>Daniel

[The Doctor]

Who said newsgroups are useless?

>--
>
>Mickmane

[The Doctor]

AGA?

[The Doctor]

In article <GZ5MMIDLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>On 18.02.24, The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>> Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>
>>> I like audioplays, and even plain audiobooks. (Reading a story
>>> manually just got too tedious, and I can do other things while
>>> listening, especially on the balcony in summer.)
>>>
>>> I wouldn't know where to start looking for them and any other non-TV
>>> media of Doctor Who, though.
>
>> There?s a fair few usually available on Spotify for free, including
>> Spare Parts.
>
>> Audible carries a lot but there?s a subscription charge after a
>> month. Could listen to some during a free trial though.
>
>I'm not on either of those things. Weird internet/mobile phone stuff. :P
>

Same here!

>> Big Finish is the main production company- 25 years of output and
>> going strong - but not much is free from them. Downloads of the older
>> stuff are often pretty affordable though - Spare Parts is £2.99 for
>> example, not bad for a 2 hour 4-part serial?
>
>Blueshirt posted a link. :)
>
>Not sure about those prices. It's not TV, so only half-"real", and I
>have a pile of stuff to listen to already, so it's not that big a
>priority.
>

got you!

>> And the usual piratical means are of course available ?
>
>I don't want to know about those things!
>

As you view it!

[The Doctor]

In article <GZ5MLKAqczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>On 18.02.24, Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:
>> Mickmane wrote:
>>> On 17.02.24, The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>>>> Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>
>>>>> That other episode you mention simply doesn't make sense, so
>>>>> it's just the Master messing with the Doctor's mind.
>>>
>>>> No, it wasn't. I might wish it was. But it wasn't.
>>>
>>> I'll stick with it. Nothing else makes sense. :)
>
>> I'm with Mike on this one. It would be nice if it was but it can't
>> really be that way. It would mean ignoring a whole lot of other
>> stuff.
>
>That's ok, I'm used to being on my own with my take on things. :)
>

Good person!

>>>>> And even Toymaker confirmed that our first Doctor was the actual
>>>>> first Doctor.
>>>
>>>> Then who are the Doctors shown in the mind battle in The Brain
>>>> of Morbius??
>>>
>>> Morbius' faces, of course. Don't know how anyone could think
>>> anything else.
>
>> Maybe because the man who Produced the show at that time said so!!!
>
>If it's not in the series, it's not real. ;P
>
>Like, "gif or it didn't happen!"
>

gif?

>> As far as the Executive Producer of the show was concerned at the
>> time (Philip Hinchliffe) they were meant to be faces of The Doctor...
>
>> This seems to be what Chris Chibnall wanted to expand on during his
>> era with the Timeless Child, that the Doctor did have previous
>> incarnations before William Hartnell. Philip Hinchliffe had the same
>> idea forty years before!!!
>
>I wouldn't mind if it were some actual Doctors before the first one we
>saw, but that whole Timeless Child thing is just ridiculous. And lessens
>the Doctor being special and grand, doing his own thing.
>
>Doctor having extra faces before Hartnell -that he remembers- also is
>incompatible with that (censored) Timeless Child thing.
>

The Timeless Child is incompatible with Doctor Who!

>> Now, I know a lot of it doesn't 'fit' or make a lot of sense, but
>> these are the ideas various Producers of Doctor Who have had at
>> various times. The current Executive Producer of Doctor Who, RTD,
>> might think more like you and think it's all a load tosh, in which
>> case we'll get an explanation further down the line... and he'll
>> throw in his own tosh!
>
>I can only hope! :)
>

Yeah! Yeah.

[The Doctor]

In article <GZ5ML+1aczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>On 18.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>> In article <GZ1LbIcaczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>> On 17.02.24, The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>>>> Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>>>> On 16.02.24, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>>>>> wrote:
>
>>> Don't like the weeping angels themselves either.
>
>> Blink rocks!
>
>Yeah, some carved rocks being propped up to supposedly look scary didn't
>really impress me. :P
>

An actual costume there.

>>>> And when was the Doctor the Fugitive Doctor, as it is clearly in
>>>> the Doctor?s past in the sequences involving battling the Bad Guys
>>>> in Flux?
>>>
>>> They're mistaken. (I'll get round to rewatching that, before May
>>> surely, but don't have those episodes clear in my head - too much
>>> nonsense!)
>
>> Just think of the Timeless Child as not being part of Dcotor Who!
>
>Oh, I already do think it's just the Master messing with the Doctor.
>

Interesting theory! That could apply to the whole Timeless Child Era.

>>>> Just as the aliens from beyond space in Wild Blue Yonder also
>>>> affirmed it, by telling the Doctor that he didn?t know who he was
>>>> any more.
>>>
>>> Not knowing who he was anymore could mean anything
>
>> Wild Blue Yonder was a pantomime!
>
>?
>
>What do you mean by that?
>

Even Love and Mosters is watchable.

[The Doctor]

In article <GZ5MMBbaczB@ATH>, Mickmane <A...@kruemel.org> wrote:
>On 18.02.24, Daniel65 <dani...@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>> Mickmane wrote on 18/2/24 7:50 am:
>
>>> No idea who Martin Clunes is. What's "tgin"? (I guess it's a typo,
>>> but I can't figure out for what.)
>
>> Martin Clunes
>> https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0167340/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_7_nm_1_q_Ma
>> rtin%2520Clunes
>
>> He played the Main Character in the 'Doc Martin' TV Series .... and
>> has lately been doing Tourist-type Series on the Islands of The
>> Pacific and around North America.
>
>Hm, would more help to say who he played in Doctor Who. :P
>

Ever saw Sanke dance?

>> And I'm thinking 'tgin' might have been a misspelling of 'thin'!!
>
>Makes sense.

or Tegan.

[The Doctor]

In article <uqspaj$112e2$1...@dont-email.me>,

The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:

I love Sirens of time!

>--
>“The timelines and … canon … are rupturing” - the Doctor