Baaaa... Humbug!
Ignis Fatuus
Take the bare bones of a mercilessly exploited story; flesh them out
with some vaguely sci-y fantasy; send them aloft on another magic
carpet ride; animate with lots of too-fast-to-follow-meaningless
dialogue; drown in a deluge of xmassy orchestral syrup; and you end up
with the kind of stodgy mess that serves to keep the Christmas Turkey
down.
I'll watch anything with Michael Gambon in it... but struggling with a
flaccid script, alongside Smith's gyrating motormouth; imprisoned in
Toby Haynes whirligig direction, a host of lacklustre effects, and the
inevitable musical deluge from M. Gold; he could only offer the
briefest glimpse of a story that's infinitely more dramatic, and
resonant, than Mr. Moffat's leaden pastiche.
The Doctor
Ant-Moffat I see.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.facebook.com/dyadallee
Merry Christmas 2010 and Happy New Year 2011
Ignis Fatuus
(The Doctor) wrote:
>In article <arbdh6h3d4mplhrao...@4ax.com>,
>Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
>>
>>Take the bare bones of a mercilessly exploited story; flesh them out
>>with some vaguely sci-y fantasy; send them aloft on another magic
>>carpet ride; animate with lots of too-fast-to-follow-meaningless
>>dialogue; drown in a deluge of xmassy orchestral syrup; and you end up
>>with the kind of stodgy mess that serves to keep the Christmas Turkey
>>down.
>>
>>I'll watch anything with Michael Gambon in it... but struggling with a
>>flaccid script, alongside Smith's gyrating motormouth; imprisoned in
>>Toby Haynes whirligig direction, a host of lacklustre effects, and the
>>inevitable musical deluge from M. Gold; he could only offer the
>>briefest glimpse of a story that's infinitely more dramatic, and
>>resonant, than Mr. Moffat's leaden pastiche.
>
>Ant-Moffat I see.
Hardly. I enjoyed all of his RTD era stories, but I hate what he's
done with the show since he took over... and I detest Matt Smith.
powrwrap
Bravo review! Absolutely spot on. Hate to admit but this Christmas
special stunk. Just another mish-mashed confusing runaround. How about
a coherent story Mr. Moffat?
Perhaps the most disappointing thing was that this Doctor could not
figure out how to "tame the sky". I would think TomDoc or PertweeDoc
would have it sussed in about 5 minutes. After all, there is this
gigantic antenna tower beaming energy into the atmosphere. I'd think
the Doctor might want to take a look at what it was doing and how it
was doing it. No, instead he resorts to interfering with time and
changing someone's memories (again). Seems to be a recurrent theme
with MattDoc. He does this for seven years in a row. Seven years, and
he can't figure out how to solve Kazran's machine?
Also, the technobabble at the end of the story about the iso-morphic
controls of the machine don't respond to Kazran's touch because
Kazran's memories have changed actually elicited an audible guffaw
from this viewer.
What's with all the explosions and fireballs in and around the
plummeting spacecraft? They are traveling through ice clouds for
heaven's sake! It is said that the crystals contain a "weak electrical
charge", but the effect on the space liner was incredible.
Also, Abigail's inability to survive more than seven days outside the
cryogenic chamber is never fully explained. These are pretty big plot
points that are brushed aside.
The Doctor
Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 13:20:48 +0000 (UTC), doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
>(The Doctor) wrote:
>
>>In article <arbdh6h3d4mplhrao...@4ax.com>,
>>Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Take the bare bones of a mercilessly exploited story; flesh them out
>>>with some vaguely sci-y fantasy; send them aloft on another magic
>>>carpet ride; animate with lots of too-fast-to-follow-meaningless
>>>dialogue; drown in a deluge of xmassy orchestral syrup; and you end up
>>>with the kind of stodgy mess that serves to keep the Christmas Turkey
>>>down.
>>>
>>>I'll watch anything with Michael Gambon in it... but struggling with a
>>>flaccid script, alongside Smith's gyrating motormouth; imprisoned in
>>>Toby Haynes whirligig direction, a host of lacklustre effects, and the
>>>inevitable musical deluge from M. Gold; he could only offer the
>>>briefest glimpse of a story that's infinitely more dramatic, and
>>>resonant, than Mr. Moffat's leaden pastiche.
>>
>>Ant-Moffat I see.
>
>Hardly. I enjoyed all of his RTD era stories, but I hate what he's
>done with the show since he took over... and I detest Matt Smith.
Smith rocks!!
The Face of Po
> On Dec 25, 9:44 pm, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
>> Take the bare bones of a mercilessly exploited story; flesh them out
>> with some vaguely sci-y fantasy; send them aloft on another magic
>> carpet ride; animate with lots of too-fast-to-follow-meaningless
>> dialogue; drown in a deluge of xmassy orchestral syrup; and you end up
>> with the kind of stodgy mess that serves to keep the Christmas Turkey
>> down.
>>
>> I'll watch anything with Michael Gambon in it... but struggling with a
>> flaccid script, alongside Smith's gyrating motormouth; imprisoned in
>> Toby Haynes whirligig direction, a host of lacklustre effects, and the
>> inevitable musical deluge from M. Gold; he could only offer the
>> briefest glimpse of a story that's infinitely more dramatic, and
>> resonant, than Mr. Moffat's leaden pastiche.
>
> Bravo review! Absolutely spot on. Hate to admit but this Christmas
> special stunk. Just another mish-mashed confusing runaround. How about
> a coherent story Mr. Moffat?
What was confusing or incoherent? 11th talks pretty fast at times, but
it wasn't a "wait for it all to fall into place" puzzle like "Blink".
> Perhaps the most disappointing thing was that this Doctor could not
> figure out how to "tame the sky". I would think TomDoc or PertweeDoc
> would have it sussed in about 5 minutes. After all, there is this
> gigantic antenna tower beaming energy into the atmosphere. I'd think
> the Doctor might want to take a look at what it was doing and how it
> was doing it. No, instead he resorts to interfering with time and
> changing someone's memories (again). Seems to be a recurrent theme
> with MattDoc. He does this for seven years in a row. Seven years, and
> he can't figure out how to solve Kazran's machine?
He was only there for seven days, each a year apart. But he figured out
that it was isomorphic in about seven seconds. As the point of this
scene was to setup the situation in which he *had* to manipulate the
person, not the machine, I'll let this redefinition of "isomorphic"
slide.
He *did* piece together enough clues to "tame the sky" as a result of
his going into Kazran's past, though.
> Also, the technobabble at the end of the story about the iso-morphic
> controls of the machine don't respond to Kazran's touch because
> Kazran's memories have changed actually elicited an audible guffaw
> from this viewer.
But this bit, I agree, could have been done more consistently - and not
just by further clarification of WTF they mean by "isomorphic" - eg.
that Kazran's father would have seen what an easy-going/let-down/soft
touch his son was becoming due to the Doctor's influence, and refused to
give him access to the controls to the empire.
By comparison, the similar twist near the end of "Continuity Errors"[1]
is that the person being manipulated realises that important parts of
her life no longer make any sense, and she shouldn't even be in a
position to help the Doctor any more.
> Also, Abigail's inability to survive more than seven days outside the
> cryogenic chamber is never fully explained.
I understood that she has some terminal condition and her doctors (the
medical kind, not the TARDIS-flying kind) have told her she only has a
few days to live. They might even, with Sufficiently Advanced
Technology, be able to pinpoint this number of days more precisely than
we can at the moment. But nothing explained why she was only able to
leave her capsule for a whole day at a time.
And why did all the other fridges have counters on?
> These are pretty big plot points that are brushed aside.
They were things I didn't think about too hard while watching, but
occurred to me while on the road today. I think the term for this is,
quite appropriately, fridge logic :-)
[1] - Out of print, but there's a synopsis here
http://www.drwhoguide.com/who_dec3.htm#8
--
Happiness will prevail
powrwrap
<gkenning...@potatojunkie.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
> I understood that she has some terminal condition and her doctors (the
> medical kind, not the TARDIS-flying kind) have told her she only has a
> few days to live. They might even, with Sufficiently Advanced
> Technology, be able to pinpoint this number of days more precisely than
> we can at the moment. But nothing explained why she was only able to
> leave her capsule for a whole day at a time.
Yes, and no one explained why in this society they have lamps that
resemble kerosene lanterns which they use to see the numbers on the
electronic security keypad on the cryogenic chambers. I guess that is
a (failed) attempt to connect the atmosphere of the Dickens story to
this story.
powrwrap
<gkenning...@potatojunkie.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
He didn't need to manipulate the person, he needed to manipulate the
ice crystals in the atmosphere. Ultimately that's what he ended up
doing via Abigail at the end of the story. Sure took a round about way
of getting there, but I suppose if there wouldn't have been a story if
he simply solved the problem instead of changing the character of
Kazran.
> He *did* piece together enough clues to "tame the sky" as a result of
> his going into Kazran's past, though.
Yes, an obtuse and round-about way of getting there.
The Face of Po
It's Scrooge's basement. He's not going to shell out on installing and
running a nice bright ceiling light when a dingey little glow from a
torch will do.
--
Happiness will prevail
The Face of Po
> On Dec 26, 3:40 pm, The Face of Po
> <gkenning...@potatojunkie.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
>> powrwrap brought the following to the attention of rec.arts.drwho:
>> > figure out how to "tame the sky". I would think TomDoc or PertweeDoc
>> > would have it sussed in about 5 minutes. After all, there is this
>> > gigantic antenna tower beaming energy into the atmosphere. I'd think
>> > the Doctor might want to take a look at what it was doing and how it
>> > was doing it. No, instead he resorts to interfering with time and
>> > changing someone's memories (again). Seems to be a recurrent theme
>> > with MattDoc. He does this for seven years in a row. Seven years, and
>> > he can't figure out how to solve Kazran's machine?
>>
>> He was only there for seven days, each a year apart. But he figured out
>> that it was isomorphic in about seven seconds. As the point of this
>> scene was to setup the situation in which he *had* to manipulate the
>> person, not the machine, I'll let this redefinition of "isomorphic"
>> slide.
>
> He didn't need to manipulate the person, he needed to manipulate the
> ice crystals in the atmosphere. Ultimately that's what he ended up
> doing via Abigail at the end of the story. Sure took a round about way
> of getting there, but I suppose if there wouldn't have been a story if
> he simply solved the problem instead of changing the character of
> Kazran.
He needed to gather clues to solve the problem. It's because young
Kazran was so fascinated by, yet afraid of, the fish that the Doctor
helped him capture one; in doing so, he found out more about the fish
and the sky, and also managed to get the remote-controlled shark up
there.
>> He *did* piece together enough clues to "tame the sky" as a result of
>> his going into Kazran's past, though.
>
> Yes, an obtuse and round-about way of getting there.
That's quite normal in DW. (Insert 3rd's remark about a straight line.)
He encounters a problem, makes a plan to deal with it, and then suffers
a last-minute setback and has to adapt. It'd take longer than an hour
to do that in a 70's serial, although the liner crashing would probably
have been a cliffhanger rather than the opening scene.
Sometimes it's a technical setback that can be overcome by running down
some corridors and reblatting the thingummies. Sometimes some
hazily-explained alien technology saves the day at the last minute. And
sometimes, like this, it falls down to plan B, in which another innocent
party lays down his or her (but usually her) life.
--
Happiness will prevail
john smith
"powrwrap" <powr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:45ff7a2a-9e90-450e...@c2g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
Dickenspunk? Gaspunk?
Ignis Fatuus
Semens reasonable.
Charles E Hardwidge
news:HF4So.122120$QU2....@newsfe14.ams2...
>
> Yes, and no one explained why in this society they have lamps that
> resemble kerosene lanterns which they use to see the numbers on the
> electronic security keypad on the cryogenic chambers. I guess that is
> a (failed) attempt to connect the atmosphere of the Dickens story to
> this story.
>
> Dickenspunk? Gaspunk?
I think, Piers Wenger is a book smart MBA who's like one of those middle
class pseuds you find at a wine and cheese school fundraiser.
Wengerpunk: an attempt by a brainless social climber to look hip and trendy
by badly implementing an already dated niche fashion.
I can just imagine him in his Ikea furnished flat pulling out 1980's
bubblegum pop albums to play on his Bang and Olufsen.
--
Charles E Hardwidge
powrwrap
>
> It's Scrooge's basement. He's not going to shell out on installing and
> running a nice bright ceiling light when a dingey little glow from a
> torch will do.
Actually, the faux kerosene lantern was in Kazran's father's study. It
was acquired there then brought into the cryogenic area.
The Doctor
solar penguin
powrwrap wrote:
> On Dec 26, 3:40 pm, The Face of Po
> <gkenning...@potatojunkie.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
> > powrwrap brought the following to the attention of rec.arts.drwho:
> > > On Dec 25, 9:44 pm, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Perhaps the most disappointing thing was that this Doctor could not
> > > figure out how to "tame the sky".
> >
> > As the point of this
> > scene was to setup the situation in which he *had* to manipulate the
> > person, not the machine, I'll let this redefinition of "isomorphic"
> > slide.
>
> He didn't need to manipulate the person, he needed to manipulate the
> ice crystals in the atmosphere. Ultimately that's what he ended up
> doing via Abigail at the end of the story. Sure took a round about way
> of getting there,
As a previous Doctor once remarked, a straight line may be the
shortest route from A to B but it isn't the most interesting. I can
see why it would be in-character for the Doctor, especially this
Doctor, to prefer trying to change the man in this case.
IMHO the real plot hole in the story was how that shark managed to
survive over 50 years with a sonic screwdriver blocking its digestive
tract!
Ignis Fatuus
In a world of flying fish and shark-drawn sleighs it might seem like a
forgivable oversight.
Ross
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yeah. you might as well complain that the Doctor didn't just pull out
a gun and threaten to shoot Kazran if he didn't let the ship land. He
did what he did because of the combination of what needed to be done
and who he is.
john smith
"solar penguin" <solar....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:34dea78e-0eb3-4a47...@s4g2000yql.googlegroups.com...
powrwrap wrote:
Yeah - course it is!
powrwrap
> > powrwrap brought the following to the attention of rec.arts.drwho:
> > Also, Abigail's inability to survive more than seven days outside the
> > cryogenic chamber is never fully explained.
> I understood that she has some terminal condition and her doctors (the
> medical kind, not the TARDIS-flying kind) have told her she only has a
> few days to live. They might even, with Sufficiently Advanced
> Technology, be able to pinpoint this number of days more precisely than
> we can at the moment. But nothing explained why she was only able to
> leave her capsule for a whole day at a time.
If Abigail is frozen as a type of loan guarantee, or collateral, why
in the world would her family want to reduce the number of days she
has left to live by having her spend a day outside the chamber?
Furthermore, why would the family ever repay their debt to Karzan, if
repaying the debt means Abigail is let loose from the chamber and will
die in seven days?
The Doctor
Ross <rras...@trenchcoatsoft.com> wrote:>> > On Dec 26, 3:40=A0pm, The Face of Po
>> > <gkenning...@potatojunkie.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
>> > > powrwrap brought the following to the attention of rec.arts.drwho:
>>
>> > > > Perhaps the most disappointing thing was that this Doctor could not
>> > > > figure out how to "tame the sky".
>>
>> > > As the point of this
>> > > scene was to setup the situation in which he *had* to manipulate the
>> > > person, not the machine, I'll let this redefinition of "isomorphic"
>> > > slide.
>>
>> > He didn't need to manipulate the person, he needed to manipulate the
>> > ice crystals in the atmosphere. Ultimately that's what he ended up
>> > doing via Abigail at the end of the story. Sure took a round about way
>> > of getting there,
>>
>> As a previous Doctor once remarked, a straight line may be the
>> see why it would be in-character for the Doctor, especially this
>> Doctor, to prefer trying to change the man in this case.
>>
>> IMHO the real plot hole in the story was how that shark managed to
>> survive over 50 years with a sonic screwdriver blocking its digestive
>> tract!- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>
>Yeah. you might as well complain that the Doctor didn't just pull out
>a gun and threaten to shoot Kazran if he didn't let the ship land. He
>did what he did because of the combination of what needed to be done
>and who he is.
And without violence.
The Doctor
Well, somehow the sonic screwdriver survived the shark!
Ross
I didn't think her family knew about the condition; they thought she
volunteered just because she was kind-hearted and sweet, when in fact,
she knew her number was up and therefore didn't see being frozen as a
great loss.
powrwrap
> I didn't think her family knew about the condition; they thought she
> volunteered just because she was kind-hearted and sweet, when in fact,
> she knew her number was up and therefore didn't see being frozen as a
> great loss.
Pure conjecture. If she thought being frozen was no great loss then
don't you think Abigail would have told her family that she had a
terminal condition and don't bother paying back Karzan? Or would she
want them to have the burden and worry of that debt hanging over their
heads as well as Abigail's very life tied to it? I don't think so.
The Face of Po
The family were quite vague about what Abigail's relationship to them
was. I haven't been back and rewatched, but I thought that what had
happened was that she'd agreed to be the one who was ransomed, because
she knew she didn't have much of a life left, but she had deliberately
not let Sardick know about this (and possibly the family as a result).
Of course, this makes the numbers on the front of the fridges even
harder to explain. Do the fridges know something that even their owner
doesn't?
--
Happiness will prevail
The Doctor
powrwrap <powr...@aol.com> wrote:
What would Abigail want?
Ross
<gkenning...@potatojunkie.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
> powrwrap brought the following to the attention of rec.arts.drwho:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >> On Dec 26, 3:40 pm, The Face of Po <gkenning...@potatojunkie.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
>
> >> > powrwrap brought the following to the attention of rec.arts.drwho:
>
> >> > Also, Abigail's inability to survive more than seven days outside the
> >> > cryogenic chamber is never fully explained.
>
> >> I understood that she has some terminal condition and her doctors (the
> >> medical kind, not the TARDIS-flying kind) have told her she only has a
> >> few days to live. They might even, with Sufficiently Advanced
> >> Technology, be able to pinpoint this number of days more precisely than
> >> we can at the moment. But nothing explained why she was only able to
> >> leave her capsule for a whole day at a time.
>
> > If Abigail is frozen as a type of loan guarantee, or collateral, why
> > in the world would her family want to reduce the number of days she
> > has left to live by having her spend a day outside the chamber?
> > Furthermore, why would the family ever repay their debt to Karzan, if
> > repaying the debt means Abigail is let loose from the chamber and will
> > die in seven days?
>
> The family were quite vague about what Abigail's relationship to them
> was. I haven't been back and rewatched, but I thought that what had
> happened was that she'd agreed to be the one who was ransomed, because
> she knew she didn't have much of a life left, but she had deliberately
> not let Sardick know about this (and possibly the family as a result).
>
If you listen to what's audible of her recording the first time The
Doctor and Young Kazran find her, it sounds like she went behind her
father's back and took *his* place as the collateral.
She also talks about Elliot Sardick as a great philanthropist who gave
her this "opportunity" out of kindness. Now, my initial inclination is
to read this as her sugar-coating it to stroke the elder Sardick's
ego, but it's just about possible that the old Sardick actually did
have a moment of kindness, and allowed her to take the place of her
father (even though, as powrwrap mentions, she's not an especially
valuable hostage if her family knows her condition.)
But Abigail is an adult; there's no reason her family would know about
her condition unless she wanted them to. None of them mention it when
she visits them, and they don't mention it when they come to beg for
her release.
(Though on the other hand, I rather like the possibility that it was
her medical bills that put the family in need of a loan.)
> Of course, this makes the numbers on the front of the fridges even
> harder to explain. Do the fridges know something that even their owner
> doesn't?
>
Could be a safety feature to alert the owner if the contained person
is in danger of freezer burn or otherwise needs medical attention.