Request for Kate Orman
Paul DeLong
Kate:
I just read the merchandise list, and it said that Ace is leaving in
"Set Piece". My only request is that there be a satisfying resolution
to her conflicts with her mom and the Doctor. There's been all this
side plot development with her mother, and I hope we finally get to
meet her, besides her appearance in Fenric. However, if the story is
already set in stone, then just pay this request no heed. Thanks.
By the way, I'm glad you're not killing her (so I hear) - all that
character development would have been REALLY pointless if that were
the case.
Catcha' later,
Paul.
MAMMONE,Robert
would be fun nonetheless. I vote that ACe dies in the most painful, sadistic,
pointless manner possible, and that the Doctor has a hand in it. Ahh yes,
the satisfaction...
Samuel Penn
POL...@LUSTA.LATROBE.EDU.AU (MAMMONE,Robert) writes:
# >
# > By the way, I'm glad you're not killing her (so I hear) - all that
# > character development would have been REALLY pointless if that were
# > the case.
# >
# Why not let's have a vote. Kate won't heed it with good reason, but it
# would be fun nonetheless. I vote that ACe dies in the most painful,
sadistic,
# pointless manner possible, and that the Doctor has a hand in it. Ahh yes,
# the satisfaction...
Ah, but the Doctor drops her off in Paris at the end of Fenric (the
novelisation
at any rate), so she can't be killed - unless the Doctor picks her up again
afterwards - not that totally ignoring continuity will be anything new in DW
of
course!
Anyway, to hell with continuity, I'll vote for a violent gruesome death,
though with a bit of point to it (after managing to screw the Doctor's life
up in a really nasty way of course - she's got to get her own back on him
however she leaves!!!)
--
Sam -----------------------------------------------------------
sam...@dai.ed.ac.uk -------- STMFD junk,{intel,unix,microsoft}
Doctor Why
Who CARES what Kate thinks?
I think Ace should die, because she's an irritating little slut, and a sign of
the decline in standards of the program.
Honestly, can you imagine Sarah Jane running around blowing up Krynoids and
call Tom Baker "Professor"?
He'd have given her a bloody good kicking, and rightly so.
Rich
Jonathan Blum
>You know, Ace's mother hadn't even crossed my mind. Thanks for pointing
>her out to me!
>Anyone else got suggestions?
Yes. If Ace turns out to be her own great-great-grandmother, I will scream.
:-)
Regards,
Jon Blum
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"All this time you two thought you were playing some twisted game of
chess... when it was just me playing solitaire!"
D O C T O R W H O : T I M E R I F T
Jonathan Blum
>> Why not let's have a vote. Kate won't heed it with good reason, but it
>>would be fun nonetheless.
Didn't we do that already a few months ago? Kate asked jokingly for votes,
and instantly a whole debate sprang up which can be summarized by three
points of view:
A) "Ooh, the angst, the bleakness, the misery! Kill her! Send the Doctor
into a complete tailspin and write about it for hundreds more pages! Yes!
YES!!"
B) "Forcryinoutloud, let her crawl out of the hole she's been dug into since
"Deceit" and give her some sort of happy ending. Let her learn to stand on
her own two feet without the Doctor at long last."
C) "Aah, kill the b*tch."
In this latest round, the original poster has already stated view B, Robert
countered with view A, and now for view C...
>I think Ace should die, because she's an irritating little slut, and a sign of
>the decline in standards of the program.
(The only part of that sentence I don't disagree with is the word "little",
since Sophie's 5'2". But I'll wait for Rich to explain his views before
I go nuclear...)
>Honestly, can you imagine Sarah Jane running around blowing up Krynoids and
>call Tom Baker "Professor"?
>He'd have given her a bloody good kicking, and rightly so.
Ah, yet another member of the "keep the companions barefoot and screaming"
club. No, I can't imagine Sarah Jane blowing up Kryonids... I can't imagine
her surviving some of the situations Ace has been placed in in the series.
And I don't need to imagine Sarah taking the wind out of the Doctor's sails,
a la "Professor". She did it all the time. Look at the beginning of
"Pyramids of Mars", where he's being all mysterious and dark and she laughs
him off.
Kate Orman
>
>Kate:
>I just read the merchandise list, and it said that Ace is leaving in
>"Set Piece". My only request is that there be a satisfying resolution
>to her conflicts with her mom and the Doctor. There's been all this
>side plot development with her mother, and I hope we finally get to
>meet her, besides her appearance in Fenric. However, if the story is
>already set in stone, then just pay this request no heed. Thanks.
You know, Ace's mother hadn't even crossed my mind. Thanks for pointing
her out to me!
Anyone else got suggestions?
--
Kate Orman at Macquarie University Library, Sydney, Australia
"Anybody remotely interesting is mad - in some way or another."
David McKinnon
writes:
[snip]
>club. No, I can't imagine Sarah Jane blowing up Kryonids... I can't imagine
>her surviving some of the situations Ace has been placed in in the series.
I don't mean to be quarrelsome, since I agree with almost everything you say
in this posting, but ... which situations are you speaking of, exactly? I'd
guess that Ace is more physically fit than Sarah, but there were plenty of
tight scrapes that Sarah got herself out of.
Oh, and I should temper my question that I am referring to the series on TV,
rather than in the NAs.
[snip]
Jason A. Miller
>Who CARES what Kate thinks?
Er, YOU should, because if you want Ace to die, it's Kate who's
writing her final adventure ... so be real nice to her and she might kill
off Ace for you :)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Jason Miller, Super Bowl Extra-Point Kicker |
|"doc...@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu" Pointless behavior, and plenty of it!|
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
|"We've come 10,000 light years to ... Rock ... the Super Bowl!" |
| - cheesy halftime-show aliens on "The Simpsons" |
|"[Dallas] is my "Lock" of the week!" - Bernie Smilovitz, WCBS, New York |
| Proud fashion designer of Jimmy Johnson's toupee |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Miller
>In article <PDELONG.94...@eden.rutgers.edu> pde...@eden.rutgers.edu (Paul DeLong) writes:
>>
>>Kate:
>>I just read the merchandise list, and it said that Ace is leaving in
>>"Set Piece". My only request is that there be a satisfying resolution
>>to her conflicts with her mom and the Doctor. There's been all this
>>side plot development with her mother, and I hope we finally get to
>>meet her, besides her appearance in Fenric. However, if the story is
>>already set in stone, then just pay this request no heed. Thanks.
>You know, Ace's mother hadn't even crossed my mind. Thanks for pointing
>her out to me!
>Anyone else got suggestions?
Yes... dont kill her, marry her off, let her be happy etc... THROW HER
OUT!!! :) Seriously... I cant remember who's suggestion it was, but I think
it's perfect. I mean, she's become the antithesis of what she was supposed
to become in Season 26... why shouldnt the Doc get sick of it all and kick
her out. If anything, it'd make a great scene!!
>--
>Kate Orman at Macquarie University Library, Sydney, Australia
>"Anybody remotely interesting is mad - in some way or another."
--
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\ Andrew Miller / "You can always judge a man by the quality of /
/ and...@scorch.hna.com.au \ his enemies" - The 7th Doctor \
\ The Hunter Network / Doctor Who, Front 242, Ministry, Morbid Angel /
/ Association, Newcastle \ Carcass, Nine Inch Nails, Def FX, The Simpsons \
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Kate Orman
>In article <2i6vuq$9...@sunb.ocs.mq.edu.au> kor...@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au (Kate Orman) writes:
>>You know, Ace's mother hadn't even crossed my mind. Thanks for pointing
>>her out to me!
>
>>Anyone else got suggestions?
>
>Yes. If Ace turns out to be her own great-great-grandmother, I will scream.
Oops, there goes chapter eight! ;-)
Kate Orman
> Why not let's have a vote. Kate won't heed it with good reason, but it
>would be fun nonetheless. I vote that ACe dies in the most painful, sadistic,
>pointless manner possible, and that the Doctor has a hand in it. Ahh yes,
>the satisfaction...
Had a hand in what, she asked innocently?
Doctor Why
>In article <ssushipn.759763760@reading> ssus...@reading.ac.uk (Doctor Why) writes:
>>> Why not let's have a vote. Kate won't heed it with good reason, but it
>>>would be fun nonetheless.
>Didn't we do that already a few months ago? Kate asked jokingly for votes,
>and instantly a whole debate sprang up which can be summarized by three
>points of view:
>A) "Ooh, the angst, the bleakness, the misery! Kill her! Send the Doctor
>into a complete tailspin and write about it for hundreds more pages! Yes!
>YES!!"
>B) "Forcryinoutloud, let her crawl out of the hole she's been dug into since
>"Deceit" and give her some sort of happy ending. Let her learn to stand on
>her own two feet without the Doctor at long last."
>C) "Aah, kill the b*tch."
>In this latest round, the original poster has already stated view B, Robert
>countered with view A, and now for view C...
>>I think Ace should die, because she's an irritating little slut, and a sign of
>>the decline in standards of the program.
>(The only part of that sentence I don't disagree with is the word "little",
>since Sophie's 5'2". But I'll wait for Rich to explain his views before
>I go nuclear...)
Irritating: Anyone who says "Boom" or "Let's blow it up" or "wicked" as often
as she does is either (a) irrating (as I said), or (b) a cartoon character,
which is what so much of DW had become by that stage.
>>Honestly, can you imagine Sarah Jane running around blowing up Krynoids and
>>call Tom Baker "Professor"?
>>He'd have given her a bloody good kicking, and rightly so.
>Ah, yet another member of the "keep the companions barefoot and screaming"
>club. No, I can't imagine Sarah Jane blowing up Kryonids... I can't imagine
>her surviving some of the situations Ace has been placed in in the series.
No, Sarah Jane was only attacked by Dinosaurs, had her mind taken over by the
Queen Spider, captured by K1, irradiated, blinded, posessed by Eldrad,
duplicated and prepared for disintegration in the distant future.
Ace had to fight three squeaky Daleks with a baseball bat that had sparklies
shoot off every time it hit something...
>And I don't need to imagine Sarah taking the wind out of the Doctor's sails,
>a la "Professor". She did it all the time. Look at the beginning of
>"Pyramids of Mars", where he's being all mysterious and dark and she laughs
>him off.
Yes, but at least she could get his name right after two years.
Rich
Kate Orman
>Who CARES what Kate thinks?
Bad luck, Rich, I'm writing the book, not you! ;-)
>I think Ace should die, because she's an irritating little slut, and a sign of
>the decline in standards of the program.
>
>Honestly, can you imagine Sarah Jane running around blowing up Krynoids and
>call Tom Baker "Professor"?
>
>He'd have given her a bloody good kicking, and rightly so.
>
>Rich
I'll bet *you* would've asked her to make the coffee.
Kate Orman
>>And I don't need to imagine Sarah taking the wind out of the Doctor's sails,
>>a la "Professor". She did it all the time. Look at the beginning of
>>"Pyramids of Mars", where he's being all mysterious and dark and she laughs
>>him off.
>
>Yes, but at least she could get his name right after two years.
Rich, darling, I'll think you'll find "Professor" is an affectionate
nickname.
Kate Orman
>
>In article <ssushipn.759763760@reading>, ssus...@reading.ac.uk (Doctor Why) writes...
>>Who CARES what Kate thinks?
>
> Er, YOU should, because if you want Ace to die, it's Kate who's
>writing her final adventure ... so be real nice to her and she might kill
>off Ace for you :)
Or I might kill *you* off instead, Rich. ;-)
Iain McCord
Another way to get rid of Ace is for the 'Bloodheat' Tardis to take off
with her and leave the 'original' behind. The present tardis seems to
trust her, and could have grabed the other at the end of Bloodheat.
It'd be interesting to find out just how sentient the tardis is, and
could explain how it remains inconspicuous most of the time (i.e. it
telepathically persuades people into ignoring it.
~~~~~/\~~~~~
Iain McCord ~~~~/()\~~~~ Mon Jan 31 13:40:25 GMT 1994
~~~~~~~~~~~~
PRYDONIAN
>
>>>
>
>Who CARES what Kate thinks?
>
>I think Ace should die, because she's an irritating little slut, and a sign of
>the decline in standards of the program.
>
>Honestly, can you imagine Sarah Jane running around blowing up Krynoids and
>call Tom Baker "Professor"?
>
>He'd have given her a bloody good kicking, and rightly so.
>
>Rich
Well the show was dummied up by about three hundred IQ points to make it
1: more accessable to Americans and 2: to allow John N. Turner and conformist
bunnies of that ilk to show their over seas counter parts that they buy into
sugar coated flashiness over substance and apologize for allowing a tv program
that is weird or alien or different or doesn't try to be anything other than
itself (nor does it NEED to) go on as long as it did.
Humans, you can't tell 'em.
-frank
Paul DeLong
Yes. If Ace turns out to be her own great-great-grandmother, I will scream.
YES!!! YES!!! YES!!!
That would be the ultimate!!!
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
Time paradoxes are cool! Huh-huh!
Yeah! Time paradoxes are cool! Heh-heh!
Kate Orman
Whatever Cris was on in "Hummer", this guy's got some too. :-)
Kate Orman
Didn't you already say that tomorrow?
Jonathan Blum
>>In article <ssushipn.759763760@reading> ssus...@reading.ac.uk (Doctor Why) writes:
>>>the decline in standards of the program.
>>(The only part of that sentence I don't disagree with is the word "little",
>>since Sophie's 5'2". But I'll wait for Rich to explain his views before
>>I go nuclear...)
>Irritating: Anyone who says "Boom" or "Let's blow it up" or "wicked" as often
>as she does is either (a) irrating (as I said), or (b) a cartoon character,
>which is what so much of DW had become by that stage.
I noticed you dropped the "slut" comment and how this relates to the
"decline in standards". But regardless...
I'll give you that her dialogue in "Dragonfire" was way over-the-top.
But beyond that story, not only does the slang go out the window for the
most part, but she has more intelligent things to say than any companion
since Ian. She catches the things the Doctor is avoiding telling her
("Silver Nemesis"). She challenges the Doctor on his game-playing
("Fenric"). And she alone, out of all the companions, can look back at
the carnage which follows the Doctor and ask "We did good, didn't we?"
If you think such reactions are cartoonish and shallow, and a decline
for the program, well then I'll leave you to admire the depth of
characterization in "The Horns of Nimon", "Underworld", or "Revenge of the
Cybermen".
>>club. No, I can't imagine Sarah Jane blowing up Kryonids... I can't imagine
>>her surviving some of the situations Ace has been placed in in the series.
>No, Sarah Jane was only attacked by Dinosaurs, had her mind taken over by the
>Queen Spider, captured by K1, irradiated, blinded, posessed by Eldrad,
>duplicated and prepared for disintegration in the distant future.
And in most of these cases, she spends her time playing Helpless Victim.
What does she _do_ when possessed, blinded, duplicated, or menaced by a
giant clanking robot? Not much. If any of these alien menaces had
actually tried to off her, I can't even picture her going down fighting.
Someone asked for an example of a situation which Ace survived which
Sarah couldn't have. How about being trapped on a catwalk with three
Cybermen and one shot left? Sarah -- or just about any rational human
being -- would panic or surrender. Ace makes it out alive.
BTW, none of this is meant as a flame against Sarah Jane Smith. I know
she could be capable, resourceful, and intelligent -- on the rare
occasions when the scriptwriters wanted her to be. Ace just consistently
does better, IMHO.
>Yes, but at least she could get his name right after two years.
Watch closely. Whenever something important is up... whenever Ace knows
they have to take things seriously... "Professor" goes out the window.
When she thinks the Doctor's been killed at the beginning of "Remembrance
of the Daleks", what does she yell?
michael james dethlefs
I like her the way she was in the series, not this combatmonger she seems to
have turned into lately.
Think about it. She's one of the few companions who actually can take care of
herself(Leela and Tegan being other examples). She doesn't whine about going
back to the TARDIS(I won't name names), isn't terminally bubbly and annoying,
and she actually compliments the 7th Doctors character (the interaction between
the two is excellent)
If they could bring back a little more of the old Ace, I'd be happy!
BTW, if they start up the series again, I think Benny would make an
interesting companion. comments?
"Put on your asbestos shorts, boys! It's flamin' time!"
--Chronos ;b
Jonathan Blum
>Actually, I like Ace!
>I like her the way she was in the series, not this combatmonger she seems to
>have turned into lately.
>If they could bring back a little more of the old Ace, I'd be happy!
You're not alone -- it's just that at the moment, the Ace-bashers are
louder than the defenders. (Sigh... I miss S'Dragon...)
And if you liked the old Ace better, well, I get the feeling once Paul
Cornell gets his hands on her ("No Future" is only a month away...
*grin*) we'll start seeing more of a return to her old self. After all,
Paul put her through the trauma that started the whole change, it's
only fitting that he do some of the healing as well.
I have a sneaking suspicion he's going to affect Ace much the way he
affected the Doctor way back in "Timewyrm: Revelation"... Here's hoping...
the DESTROYER
>In article <ssushipn.759870763@reading> ssus...@reading.ac.uk (Doctor Why) writes:
>>
>>Yes, but at least she could get his name right after two years.
>
>Rich, darling, I'll think you'll find "Professor" is an affectionate
>nickname.
Yea, but it's a dumb affectionate nickname.
-frank
the DESTROYER
>In article <CKIAK...@sun2.iusb.indiana.edu> fcha...@sun1.iusb.indiana.edu (PRYDONIAN) writes:
>>In article <ssushipn.759763760@reading> ssus...@reading.ac.uk (Doctor Why) writes:
>
>
>> Well the show was dummied up by about three hundred IQ points to make it
>>1: more accessable to Americans and 2: to allow John N. Turner and conformist
>>bunnies of that ilk to show their over seas counter parts that they buy into
>>sugar coated flashiness over substance and apologize for allowing a tv program
>>that is weird or alien or different or doesn't try to be anything other than
>>itself (nor does it NEED to) go on as long as it did.
>> Humans, you can't tell 'em.
>
>Whatever Cris was on in "Hummer", this guy's got some too. :-)
WEELAH! You had to be there.
-frank
Sonja E. Mendoza
: You're not alone -- it's just that at the moment, the Ace-bashers are
: louder than the defenders. (Sigh... I miss S'Dragon...)
When this thread first appeared, I said kill Ace off, not because I don't
like her, but because I thought that marrying her off was a fate worse
than death. Now that I've had a chance to think about it, I think killing
her off would be too easy and predictable. On the record, I just want
to say that I think McCoy and Aldred were one of the very best teams over
on the series.
What happened to S'Dragon, BTW? I really liked her posts.
: And if you liked the old Ace better, well, I get the feeling once Paul
: Cornell gets his hands on her ("No Future" is only a month away...
: *grin*) we'll start seeing more of a return to her old self. After all,
Can't wait! But living here in the US, it will probably be a while,
since apparently there's no release date for "Conundrum" yet.
: I have a sneaking suspicion he's going to affect Ace much the way he
: affected the Doctor way back in "Timewyrm: Revelation"... Here's hoping...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ WAHHH! I still
haven't found this
book! (*whimper*)
Sonja
--some...@nmsu.edu
MAMMONE,Robert
> >would be fun nonetheless. I vote that ACe dies in the most painful, sadistic,
> >pointless manner possible, and that the Doctor has a hand in it. Ahh yes,
> >the satisfaction...
>
> Who CARES what Kate thinks?
>
> I think Ace should die, because she's an irritating little slut, and a sign of
> the decline in standards of the program.
>
> Honestly, can you imagine Sarah Jane running around blowing up Krynoids and
> call Tom Baker "Professor"?
>
> He'd have given her a bloody good kicking, and rightly so.
>
> Rich
Uuurk!!! I think our friend here has trouble differentiating b/w the
Ace as depicted on the t.v. and the Ace shown in the NA's. The Ace on
the t.v was a vast improvement on the old-style companions. Calling
her a slut, and perhaps/ by inference Sophie aldred, is a very, very, stupid
thing to do. I wonder if Kate has e-mailed you. Nasty!!!ji
R.Thomson
the worst. So Ace is'nt exactly like your own favorite companion, tough.
I have been watching Dr Who since the very early days of Tom Baker and I
have to say that Sylvester McCoy and Sophie Aldred are the best pairing of
doctor and companion so far.
I'm not saying I dislike the others, in their own ways all the previous
partnerships have been good, they must have been or Dr Who would have lost
its appeal long ago.
But, things must change, and the producers have made a fine job of updating
the show to fit in with modern thinking.
I don't know who named this thread in the first place, but I think it was
a very unsuitable title, bound to start a flame war really.
If Ace has to leave, then she should (IMHO) be allowed to remain in space,
she has nothing on Earth to return to, this way we would be left with the
thought that she would still be around having her own set of adventures.
Salus.
Jonathan Blum
>Jonathan Blum (jb...@eng.umd.edu) wrote:
>: You're not alone -- it's just that at the moment, the Ace-bashers are
>: louder than the defenders. (Sigh... I miss S'Dragon...)
>When this thread first appeared, I said kill Ace off, not because I don't
>like her, but because I thought that marrying her off was a fate worse
>than death. Now that I've had a chance to think about it, I think killing
>her off would be too easy and predictable.
Not only that, but I think Ace deserves a chance to live quite happily
on her own, without the Doctor or anyone else pulling her strings.
>What happened to S'Dragon, BTW? I really liked her posts.
She still reads the net once in a blue moon, but piles and piles of
classwork keep getting in the way...
Regards,
Jon Blum
(tosses a whole bunch of Hershey's Hugs in S'Dragon's direction,
for old times sake. :-)
C.J.M...@lut.ac.uk
>In article <2j8s11...@dns1.NMSU.Edu> some...@nmsu.edu (Sonja E. Mendoza) writes:
>>Jonathan Blum (jb...@eng.umd.edu) wrote:
>>: You're not alone -- it's just that at the moment, the Ace-bashers are
>>: louder than the defenders. (Sigh... I miss S'Dragon...)
>
>>When this thread first appeared, I said kill Ace off, not because I don't
>>like her, but because I thought that marrying her off was a fate worse
>>than death. Now that I've had a chance to think about it, I think killing
>>her off would be too easy and predictable.
>
>Not only that, but I think Ace deserves a chance to live quite happily
>on her own, without the Doctor or anyone else pulling her strings.
>
with a part of her in it) and reluctant to leave the time-travelling
lifestyle. Lately we've seen her become as scheming as the Doctor himself,
as she begins to understand his motives and techniques. Would it be entirely
unfeasible for her to go off in her own TARDIS, to do much the same things as
he does? Further than that, is it possible that the Doctor realises that he
cannot (and probably eventually wouldn't want to) carry on fixing bits of the
Universe forever, and so has chosen his successor? If he really is The Other
(the One that completes the Trinity) or whatever, he could nip off to
Gallifrey, bestow regenerative ability on her somehow, and find her a
TARDIS. Obviously he wouldn't do this for anyone, but I reckon she's proved
herself capable and trustworthy time & time again. Even if it wasn't for any
higher purpose, the ability to travel to anywhere & any time would be a
helluva going-away present in itself.
Just another bonkers idea, courtesy of...
---
Chris Malley C.J.M...@student.lut.ac.uk
"Who said anything about chess?
I'm playing poker... and I have an Ace up my sleeve!"
Shane Roberts
For the most part, I agree with you. Ace is an excellent character, a
successor in the long line of companions who could look after themselves.
She is as much a part of the series as Leela, Romana II, and Nyssa.
I must, however, disagree about them being the best partnership in the
programme's history. I have seen every story from the beginning of the Jon
Pertwee era on (plus a few of the first 2 Doctors), and my 'vote' would go
to Romana II and the fourth Doctor. As they were both timelords, they were
equals. This similarity in their backgrounds was played out extremely well.
It's interesting to note that of the stories in the Tom Baker era, City of
Death was the most popular story. Having seen what remains of Shada, I am
sure that would have been even more popular.
Shane
Shane Roberts shane....@history.utas.edu.au
Dept of History
G.P.O. Box 252C
Hobart Tasmania
Australia 7009"...to be silly is not to be foolish"
Alan Bennett