Re: [OT News] Laser Could Rip a Hole in Space & Time

[Stephen Wilson]

"Brian" <bcl...@es.co.nz> wrote in message
news:1925023300374467840....@free.teranews.com...
>
> A question from me.
> If God created man in his own image then why are people disgusted by the
> naked body, surely that is an insult to God.

It's not that surprising if you really think about it.

The original purpose of clothing was to protect people from the elements -
keep them warm, help prevent injury, etc.

In many cultures, walking around in the nude is and was quite acceptable.

But then came religion. In Genesis, Adam and Eve hide from God after eating
the magic fruit, embarrassed when they realise they are naked. Add the idea
of original sin to the mix, and you end up with a society that either thinks
it's rude to be naked, or associates the naked body with sex.

Catholics are pretty bad. Priests aren't allowed to marry and are meant to
be celibate all their lives. And because it's "rude" to be naked, nobody
gets to see an unclothed himan body, and hangups just increase. Why else do
you think porn sites are so popular on the internet?

Of course, Muslims take it to the extreme, demanding women cover their
entire bodies in hijabs.

[Stephen Wilson]

"Brian" <bcl...@es.co.nz> wrote in message

news:2074229648374499028....@free.teranews.com...
>
> A mass murderer is not likely to believe in what Jesus is saying. It not a
> master of saying "yer ok I believe" but more really truly believing. The
> exception is those that don't have a choice such as babies, etc.

You reckon? I'd like to see the evidence for that.

OK, what are your views on these examples:

A man grows up and is particularly influenced by a wise neighbour who
happens to be a Buddhist. The man spends his life helping people in need,
giving to the poor. When he dies, he doesn't turn to Jesus, but he regrets
that he didn't do more while he could.

A priest doesn't marry, never has sex. But he marries hundreds of couples.
One day he sees a young boy. In a moment of madness, he has sex. The priest
then confesses his sins to Jesus and prays for forgiveness. He believes it
was Satan who tempted him. He dies, many years later and never lost his
faith in Jesus. The unfortunate boy was never able to tell anyone, blamed
himself - perhaps it was God punishing him for doing wrong - and grew up to
have many problems all stemming from his one encounter with the priest.

Finally a man spends his life lieing, cheating, stealing. He rapes a couple
of young women, murders a young boy for his mobile phone. On the day he
dies, he suddenly gets scared, finds Jesus and asks for forgiveness.

In your eyes, which of these 3 gets to go to heaven? Which ones get to spend
all eternity in hell?

[The Doctor]

In article <chine.bleu-E0776...@news.eternal-september.org>,
Where's all the China Blue food? <chine...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>In article <k7tm24$bm2$1...@gallifrey.nk.ca>,
> doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>
>> Look at natural selection in totalitarianism.
>
>No, it's not. It's a model with better predictions and fewer assumptions than
>any other model, making it the most useful.
>
>Various asses have made various assinine interpretations of natural selection,
>but that's their error; the theory is not responsible for the asses. That's like
>various asses have used christianity to excuse the worst, most unchristian
>behaviour, but that's their fail and does not change anything Jesus actually
>said.
>
>--
>My name is Indigo Montoya. \\ Annoying Usenet one post at a time.
>You flamed my father. \' At least I can stay in character.
>Prepare to be spanked. // When you look into the void,
>Stop posting that! `/ the void looks into you, and fulfills you.

Anyone does an unchristian act is unchristian.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Merry Christmas 2012 and Happy New Year 2013

[The Doctor]

In article <uywos.79$kt5...@fx08.am4>,

What is the real root of Roman Catholicism?

[The Doctor]

In article <VHwos.454675$Rc7.3...@fx04.am4>,

What was their salvation status?

[Brian]

"Where's all the China Blue food?" <chine...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> In article <VHwos.454675$Rc7.3...@fx04.am4>,
> "Stephen Wilson" <stephen.wils...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>

>> "Brian" <bcl...@es.co.nz> wrote in message
>> news:2074229648374499028....@free.teranews.com...
>>>
>>> A mass murderer is not likely to believe in what Jesus is saying. It not a
>>> master of saying "yer ok I believe" but more really truly believing. The
>>> exception is those that don't have a choice such as babies, etc.
>>
>> You reckon? I'd like to see the evidence for that.
>>
>> OK, what are your views on these examples:
>

> There's also the quote from the series Bless Me, Father:
>
> Of course I believe hell is a real place. It is a matter of strict church
> orthodoxy. But only a damned fool would believe there's actually anyone there.

I often wonder how someone created this picture of hell having burning fire
and the devil having a tail and holding something like a fork. Maybe it
created to frighten people and stop them from sinning.

--
Regards Brian

[Brian]

In the missing books from the bible it says that some will spend time in
hell but then will later go to heaven. It's seems that they excluded this
from the bible as it seems that you can be a sinful person and still go to
heaven and that was mot the message they wanted to give o people.

God forgives those that have sinned if you confess your sins.
Those that believe in Jesus go to heaven.
So in the cases above all those that believe in Jesus go to heaven. To
believe in Jesus is to believe in God.

--
Regards Brian

[Brian]

Hiding what God has created does not seem right. An artist would be upset
if you hid his painting so no one could see it.
The problem is with the ozone layer weakening these days so in some
countries walking around naked can cause sun burn.
I heard from someone that had been to a nude beach that after a while it
feels strange wearing clothes and you want to be naked like everyone else
to blend in. The difficult part is in adjusting from being use to wearing
clothes to being naked but the mind does adjust.
It would have a bad effect on the fashion world (grin).

--
Regards Brian

[Brian]

"Where's all the China Blue food?" <chine...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> In article <uywos.79$kt5...@fx08.am4>,

> "Stephen Wilson" <stephen.wils...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>> "Brian" <bcl...@es.co.nz> wrote in message
>> news:1925023300374467840....@free.teranews.com...
>>>
>>> A question from me.
>>> If God created man in his own image then why are people disgusted by the
>>> naked body, surely that is an insult to God.
>>
>> It's not that surprising if you really think about it.
>>
>> The original purpose of clothing was to protect people from the elements -
>> keep them warm, help prevent injury, etc.
>>
>> In many cultures, walking around in the nude is and was quite acceptable.
>>
>> But then came religion. In Genesis, Adam and Eve hide from God after eating
>> the magic fruit, embarrassed when they realise they are naked. Add the idea
>> of original sin to the mix, and you end up with a society that either thinks
>> it's rude to be naked, or associates the naked body with sex.
>

> Two big things in Judaism were nudity and decay after death, and both more as
> sort-of metaphors. Jews weren't anti-sex: that crept into christianity from
> pagan Greeks; nudity is sort of a metaphor for the complete exposure of all your
> faults, failings, sins, etc to the entire world. Clothing can include girdles,
> padded bras, a chestful of medals, and other layers between what you really are
> and what you present to the world. Strip a person naked, and you strip them of
> all their defences and excuses.
>
> The god of the Jews is repeatedly called the god of the living who has little to
> do with the dead; this is especially a contrast to the Egyptians. Because of the
> emphasis on life, the dead, and the rotting dead, are separated from their god.
> So the repeated concern with the corruption (rotting) of death as a sort-of
> metaphor for separation from their god and abandonment.
>
> Original sin is another one of those convoluted ideas invented by the early
> christian church to give itself more power. The premise was their god hated
> everyone, but if kissed the butts of the priests class, they had magic that
> would lessen god's hate to mere disgust so that after you had been dead for a
> few centuries, and your descendants continued to kiss butts, that church's god
> would grudgingly let you just inside heaven.

Very strange.
Whose butt was kissed, the priest, people attending his class, or the dead?
The Egyptians use to scoop out the brain and preserve it in a jar (they
must have had a strong stomach to do this), I think the idea was that when
the dead come back to life they could then put the brain back in the body.

Maybe the more clothes you had the greater power you had at least it seemed
that way in those days

--
Regards Brian

[James Boe]

On 13 Nov 2012, "Where's all the China Blue food?"
<chine...@yahoo.com> burbled, glooped, and managed to scrawl:

> In article
> <321420255374547460.9...@free.teranews.com>,

> Brian <bcl...@es.co.nz> wrote:
>
>> "Where's all the China Blue food?" <chine...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > In article <VHwos.454675$Rc7.3...@fx04.am4>,
>> > "Stephen Wilson" <stephen.wils...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Brian" <bcl...@es.co.nz> wrote in message
>> >> news:2074229648374499028....@free.teranews.com...
>> >>>
>> >>> A mass murderer is not likely to believe in what Jesus is saying.
>> >>> It not a
>> >>> master of saying "yer ok I believe" but more really truly
>> >>> believing. The exception is those that don't have a choice such
>> >>> as babies, etc.
>> >>
>> >> You reckon? I'd like to see the evidence for that.
>> >>
>> >> OK, what are your views on these examples:
>> >
>> > There's also the quote from the series Bless Me, Father:
>> >
>> > Of course I believe hell is a real place. It is a matter of strict
>> > church orthodoxy. But only a damned fool would believe there's
>> > actually anyone there.
>>

>> I often wonder how someone created this picture of hell {*} having

>> burning fire and the devil having a tail and holding something like a
>> fork. Maybe it created to frighten people and stop them from
>> sinning.
>

> Most people don't want to sin.

I do. I just don't want to go to hell for it.
(I expect that 99.99% of the populace[1] agrees with me.).[3]

[1] There is always that fringe element.[2]

[2] Of which I am a member. Just not THIS partcular fringe *points
up at --> {*}

--
"There will be moments when
all goes well; do not be
alarmed. They will pass."
--- Jules Reynard

[brilton]

On 14/11/12 9:02 AM, Brian wrote:

> "Stephen Wilson"<stephen.wils...@ntlworld.com> wrote:


>>
>> OK, what are your views on these examples:
>>
>> A man grows up and is particularly influenced by a wise neighbour who
>> happens to be a Buddhist. The man spends his life helping people in need,
>> giving to the poor. When he dies, he doesn't turn to Jesus, but he regrets
>> that he didn't do more while he could.
>>
>> A priest doesn't marry, never has sex. But he marries hundreds of couples.
>> One day he sees a young boy. In a moment of madness, he has sex. The priest
>> then confesses his sins to Jesus and prays for forgiveness. He believes it
>> was Satan who tempted him. He dies, many years later and never lost his
>> faith in Jesus. The unfortunate boy was never able to tell anyone, blamed
>> himself - perhaps it was God punishing him for doing wrong - and grew up to
>> have many problems all stemming from his one encounter with the priest.
>>
>> Finally a man spends his life lieing, cheating, stealing. He rapes a couple
>> of young women, murders a young boy for his mobile phone. On the day he
>> dies, he suddenly gets scared, finds Jesus and asks for forgiveness.
>>
>> In your eyes, which of these 3 gets to go to heaven? Which ones get to spend
>> all eternity in hell?

> God forgives those that have sinned if you confess your sins.
> Those that believe in Jesus go to heaven.
> So in the cases above all those that believe in Jesus go to heaven. To
> believe in Jesus is to believe in God.

Well, that's pretty definitive. Good man goes to hell. Bad priest and
bad man go to heaven.

[brilton]

On 14/11/12 1:15 PM, Where's all the China Blue food? wrote:
> In article<pjFos.924$1k5...@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com>,

> Too definitive. According to christianity people don't decide these things,
> their god does. Anybody this definitive is usurping their god and doing heresy.
> A true christian would shrug and leave to their god to decide, praying for mercy
> for friend, enemy, and stranger alike.




No, I was reflecting on what Brian said, and his view being definitive
and succinct. According to *him*, the Buddhist-influenced man who does
good deeds and helps people doesn't get to go to heaven because he
doesn't acknowledge Jesus before he dies, whereas the other two do,
despite their bad acts. I'm not saying that's what God says.

[brilton]

On 14/11/12 3:08 PM, Where's all the China Blue food? wrote:
> In article<G6Gos.896$Ow3...@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com>,

> Yes, well, Brian is still a heretic.
>




If you say so.

[solar penguin]

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <da1e38a6-6f08-43a9...@p11g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>,
> solar penguin <solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >The Doctor wrote:
> >
> >> In article <484830478374422950.2...@free.teranews.com>,

> >> Brian <bcl...@es.co.nz> wrote:
> >> >"Stephen Wilson" <stephen.wils...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> >> >> "Where's all the China Blue food?" <chine...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> >> news:chine.bleu-7D921...@news.eternal-september.org...
> >> >>> Did Adam and Eve have navels?
> >> >
> >> >Some interesting questions Stephen
> >> >>
> >> >> Most Christians would say no, because neither Adam or Eve had a mother. But
> >> >> then they also believe that Adam was created from dust, but God had to use a
> >> >> rib from Adam instead of dust for Eve.
> >> >>
> >> >No as they were created by God.
> >> >
> >> >> Did they have sexual organs? If so, isn't that a sign that God expected them
> >> >> to sin and would therefore need to make babies?
> >> >>
> >> >The purpose of having sexual organs is to be able to reproduce which is
> >> >what God wanted.
> >> >
> >> >> If man was created in God's image, does that mean God also has a male sexual
> >> >> organ?
> >> >
> >> >No. What would be the use of a sexual organ without a woman and woman was
> >> >created after man.
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Were they created as babies, children or adults? Who taught them to speak?
> >> >> And what language?
> >> >
> >> >Adults as God created man in his own image.
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> When God created Adam, what was he thinking when he gave him an appendix? Or
> >> >> a back that isn't adapted to walking upright? Or limbs that can't grow back
> >> >> if they are amputated? Or lacking the ability to fly or breathe underwater?
> >> >
> >> >However man has two eyes instead of one, two arms instead of one so that if
> >> >he loses an eye or a limp he has another to keep him going. Also he is
> >> >created in the image of god. The human body is a remarkable achievement.
> >> >>
> >> >> Do Christians think that because God allegedly took a rib from Adam to make
> >> >> Eve that men have one less rib than women?
> >> >
> >> >No.
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Did Adam and Eve go to heaven? They didn't believe in Jesus after all...
> >> >
> >> >Good question. I don't think anyone has an answer.
> >> >>
> >> >> When God told them they'd die if they ate the fruit, Adam didn't just carry
> >> >> on living, but he apparently lived for another 930 years!
> >> >
> >> >Maybe we live shorter life's to keep the population down. Just a thought.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >--
> >> >Regards Brian
> >>
> >> Darwinian science is a cul-de-sac science.
> >> --
> >
> >So you keep saying. But you still haven't explained what you mean by
> >that.
> >
> >A scientific cul-de-sac would imply it leads to a dead end where
> >scientific discovery and development comes to a stop. But studying
> >evolution _has_ led to further scientific discoveries regarding
> >ecology and medicine, and looks set to lead to many more. Just the
> >opposite of a cul-de-sac, a scientific through road.
> >
> >You personally may not like the direction this road is heading, but
> >that doesn't change the fact that it isn't a cul-de-sac.

>
> Look at natural selection in totalitarianism.

> --

There's no difference between that and natural selection in countries
governed any other way.

_Natural_ selection is a _natural_ process, nothing to do with the
artificial processes of government.

[solar penguin]

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <50c0fddc-54be-4e2c...@y8g2000yqy.googlegroups.com>,

> solar penguin <solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >The Doctor wrote:
> >

> >> In article <05fb0457-212a-4785...@10g2000vbu.googlegroups.com>,

> >> solar penguin <solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >The Doctor wrote:
> >> >

> >> >> In article <f35dff53-7af4-4f2e...@y6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,

> >> >> solar penguin <solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >The Doctor wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> The Cult ofo Darwin has lead us to the cult of false science we have today.
> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >
> >> >> >That's a strange use of the word "cult". In what way are they cults?
> >> >> >And in what way are they not real science? What is your idea of real
> >> >> >science? How could they be made less cultish and more scientific?
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Even saw the Voyage that changed the world?
> >> >> --
> >> >
> >> >No.
> >> >
> >> >But I wasn't asking about voyages.
> >>
> >> IT's about Darwin.
> >> --
> >
> >Yads, I asked very specific questions about this so-called "cult
> >of false science". None of them was "Can you name a film or TV series
> >about Darwin?"
> >
> >How about answering the questions I actually asked...
>
> Question was answered.
> --

Which question was answered?

"In what way are they cults?" This question needs to be answered by
giving examples of their cultish behaviour. It is not answered by
naming a film or TV series about Darwin.

"And in what way are they not real science?" This question needs to
be answered by giving examples of the differences between them and
real science. It is not answered by naming a film or TV series about
Darwin.

"What is your idea of real science?" This question needs to be
answered by giving examples of your idea of real science. It is not
answered by naming a film or TV series about Darwin.

"How could they be made less cultish and more scientific?" This
question needs to be answered by giving examples of ways to make them
less cultish and more scientific. It is not answered by naming a film
or TV series about Darwin.

The question you answered was "Can you name a film or TV series about
Darwin?" which wasn't one of the questions I asked.

You see, Yads, the answer to a question should have something to do
with what is asked in that question. It's a complicated idea, but
maybe you'll get the hang of it one day.

[solar penguin]

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <702d6094-fb1f-44e0...@q4g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>,

> solar penguin <solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >The Doctor wrote:
> >

> >> In article <743348cd-eabe-4935...@s14g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,

> >> solar penguin <solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >The Doctor wrote:
> >> >

> >> >> In article <c1Kns.228113$9D6.1...@fx27.am4>,

> >> >> Stephen Wilson <stephen.wils...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"Brian" <bcl...@es.co.nz> wrote in message

> >> >> >news:1990492818374289644....@free.teranews.com...
> >> >>>
> >> >> >> Some parents use the scare tactic on children saying that if the wonder
> >> >> >> too far in the woods then the a create will eat them.
> >> >> >> One thing worth considering is that Eve put her trust in the serpent but
> >> >> >> what if he was not telling the truth and she died when she eat the apple.
> >> >> >> However would you put something poisonous next to a child and knowing if
> >> >> >> they ate it then they would die.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Oh. So now you're saying God lies.
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> If you beleive God lies then you live in a lie.
> >> >> --
> >> >
> >> >1 Kings 22:23
> >> > Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the
> >> >mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning
> >> >thee.
> >> >
> >> >2 Chronicles 18:22
> >> > Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the
> >> >mouth of these thy prophets.
> >> >
> >> >Jeremiah 4:10
> >> > Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.
> >> >
> >> >Jeremiah 20:7
> >> > O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived.
> >> >
> >> >Ezekiel 14:9
> >> > And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the
> >> >Lord have deceived that prophet.
> >>
> >> Disbelievers got decieved and handed over to Satan.
> >>
> >> >
> >> >2 Thessalonians 2:11
> >> > For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they
> >> >should believe a lie.
> >>
> >> Even today that holds true after you will be sent a Strong Delusion if you do
> >> not believe.
> >> --
> >
> >The important thing is that your Bible, your precious KJV Bible, says
> >that God does sometimes lie. It doesn't matter whether or not the
> >people being lied to just happen to be believers or unbelievers. What
> >matters is that the Bible says that God does sometimes lie, and you
> >said that he doesn't.
>
> God lies?

That's what your KJV Bible says. Are you saying the Bible is wrong?

> Sorry he is not the Doctor.
> --

[solar penguin]

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <45nos.536250$Ol2.3...@fx25.am4>,

> Stephen Wilson <stephen.wils...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >
> >"Brian" <bcl...@es.co.nz> wrote in message

> >news:1925023300374467840....@free.teranews.com...
> >>>>
> >>>> No one should say that they are better than another person. Heaven is
> >>>> for
> >>>> anyone no matter if your poor or rich. The condition according to the
> >>>> bible
> >>>> is to believe in God and ask him to forgive all your sins.
> >>>
> >>> Which part of the Bible says that?
> >>>
> >> Its been a while since I've read it but I'm referring to John 3:16
> >> Those that believe in what Jesus is saying will have eternal life.
> >
> >Tthis makes sense to you? The only thing that really matters to God is that
> >you believe in Jesus?
> >
> >And you think that all the fantastic people who have ever lived who either
> >never got to hear about Jesus in the first place, or who had little choice
> >but to follow their own religions, or who dared to question whether some, if
> >not all, of the stories of Jesus and what he allegedly did and said just
> >might be the invention of other humans - all of them will burn in hell for
> >such a deviant crime? Yet some of the world's worst examples of humanity -
> >mass murderers, paedophiles, etc - will be rewarded just because they
> >believe in Jesus?
> >
> >
>
> Acts in this case will be judged.
>
> hitler calling himself Christ will be punishable
> by second death.
> --

Because that was by far the worst thing Hitler did, wasn't it? Nice
to see that God has his priorities straight.

[solar penguin]

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <e6459128-ec40-4135...@l18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>,
> solar penguin <solar....@gmail.com> wrote:

> >
> >
> >Brian wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> A question from me.
> >> If God created man in his own image then why are people disgusted by the
> >> naked body, surely that is an insult to God.
> >>
> >

> >But are people disgusted by naked bodies? The popularity of porn
> >suggests that they aren't.
>
> porn dehumaises and animalise sexuality.
> --

Of course. That's why it's so popular.

[solar penguin]

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <b59dea7b-d18f-4e7b...@d3g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>,

> solar penguin <solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >The Doctor wrote:
> >

> >> In article <714208513374149330.1...@free.teranews.com>,

> >> Brian <bcl...@es.co.nz> wrote:
> >> >"Stephen Wilson" <stephen.wils...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >> >> "Brian" <bcl...@es.co.nz> wrote in message

> >> >> news:1906288028374114938....@free.teranews.com...
> >> >>>>
> >> >>> I did give you the link would this information so here it is again.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c013.html
> >> >>
> >> >> Yes. And I said I read the link. The information it gave was laughable.
> >> >> "Clutching at straws" springs to mind. It uses myths to explain myths.
> >> >
> >> >I found it interesting to read.
> >> >It's true that somethings are very difficult to prove.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Hey SW Evoluion is a myth that uses myths to explain myths.
> >>
> >
> >How many myths does it explain? Which myths does it use to explain
> >them?
>
> Man evolves from apes. DNA will rebuff that.
> --

DNA has confirmed that, not rebuffed it.

[solar penguin]

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <3d2301a2-43f6-4633...@m13g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>,

> solar penguin <solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >The Doctor wrote:
> >

> >> In article <7ace2517-f0f9-477e...@d17g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>,

> >> solar penguin <solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >The Doctor wrote:
> >> >

> >> >> In article <485328917374246380.6...@free.teranews.com>,
> >> >> Brian <bcl...@es.co.nz> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >God found no reason to give man this knowledge. Also man thought that the
> >> >> >earth was flat and the sun rotated around the earth. Man could survive
> >> >> >without knowing these things just like some tribes in Africa.
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Mind you Flat Earth was a non-God based belief.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Then how come the Bible describes the Earth as flat? How come all the
> >> >famous Victorian Flat Earth kooks (including Parallax himself) were
> >> >Christian fundamentalists, convinced they were doing God's work? How
> >> >come their greatest scientific opponent was the co-discoverer of
> >> >evolution, Alfred Russel Wallace?
> >> >
> >> >I bet you know as little about the history of Flat Earthism as you do
> >> >about everything else.
> >>
> >> The world is described as an ord in a Psalm.
> >> --
> >
> >Which one?
> >
> >The world is also described as resting on foundation pillars in a
> >couple of other Psalms (75 and 82 if you're interested), implying the
> >psalmist thought it was flat when he wrote those ones.
>
> 0/10 SP. IT is a metaphor for what?
> --

0/10 Yads. You're assuming the psalmist intended the foundation
pillars to be metaphorical and the orb to be literal. There's no
evidence that this was his intention.

(The Flat Earthers would claim it was the other way round: the
foundation pillars would've been a literal description while the orb
was a metaphor for Godly power.)

[solar penguin]

Brian wrote:
> solar penguin <solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Brian wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> A question from me.
> >> If God created man in his own image then why are people disgusted by the
> >> naked body, surely that is an insult to God.
> >>
> >
> > But are people disgusted by naked bodies? The popularity of porn
> > suggests that they aren't.
>

> I have met people that are against porn and are still disgusted by naked
> bodies. I knew someone that was offended by the sight of a naked body. Even
> girls with thin string bikinis offended him and he would have to stop
> watching the movie on TV.

But those people are very much in the minority, and probably have
psychological issues caused by too much religious indoctrination.

> By the way I am not offended by the naked body.
> The romans considered the body to be beautiful and made naked statures.
>

Even nowadays most cities have a couple of naked statues in them.
That wouldn't happen if most people were disgusted by them.

[solar penguin]

The Doctor wrote:

>
> I prefer facts to the Darwinian fiction science is using to send us
> into an amoral cul-de-sac abyss.
> --

How can you tell the difference between a moral cul-de-sac abyss and
an amoral one? How can you tell whether it is a cul-de-sac abyss or a
different type of abyss?

BTW there's a very interesting article in the latest issue of New
Scientist about how a scientific, evolutionary approach is teaching us
more about morality. You should read that before condemning
evolutionary science as amoral.

[solar penguin]

Stephen Wilson wrote:

> "Brian" <bcl...@es.co.nz> wrote in message

> news:2074229648374499028....@free.teranews.com...
> >
> > A mass murderer is not likely to believe in what Jesus is saying. It not a
> > master of saying "yer ok I believe" but more really truly believing. The
> > exception is those that don't have a choice such as babies, etc.
>
> You reckon? I'd like to see the evidence for that.
>

> OK, what are your views on these examples:
>
> A man grows up and is particularly influenced by a wise neighbour who
> happens to be a Buddhist. The man spends his life helping people in need,
> giving to the poor. When he dies, he doesn't turn to Jesus, but he regrets
> that he didn't do more while he could.
>
> A priest doesn't marry, never has sex. But he marries hundreds of couples.
> One day he sees a young boy. In a moment of madness, he has sex. The priest
> then confesses his sins to Jesus and prays for forgiveness. He believes it
> was Satan who tempted him. He dies, many years later and never lost his
> faith in Jesus. The unfortunate boy was never able to tell anyone, blamed
> himself - perhaps it was God punishing him for doing wrong - and grew up to
> have many problems all stemming from his one encounter with the priest.
>
> Finally a man spends his life lieing, cheating, stealing. He rapes a couple
> of young women, murders a young boy for his mobile phone. On the day he
> dies, he suddenly gets scared, finds Jesus and asks for forgiveness.
>
> In your eyes, which of these 3 gets to go to heaven? Which ones get to spend
> all eternity in hell?

Obviously the Buddhist wouldn't do either. He'd be reincarnated.
That's what Buddhists do. And some non-Buddhists sometimes do it as
well, if that hypnotic past-life regression can be believed.

(ObWho: I once had a mystic vision, which a psychic interpreted as
meaning I was Robespierre in a previous life. I'm not sure whether or
not to believe it, but ether way it means I'm really excited about the
animated reconstruction of The Reign of Terror.)

[The Doctor]

In article <321420255374547460.9...@free.teranews.com>,
Brian <bcl...@es.co.nz> wrote:

Note: Satan will be the most tortured in Hell once Jesus's
1000 year reign is done.

[The Doctor]

In article <381008498374546939.1...@free.teranews.com>,

I wonder why those books are missing?

>
>God forgives those that have sinned if you confess your sins.
>Those that believe in Jesus go to heaven.
>So in the cases above all those that believe in Jesus go to heaven. To
>believe in Jesus is to believe in God.
>

10/10 .

>--
>Regards Brian

[The Doctor]

In article <332950880374546221.5...@free.teranews.com>,

You got that right.

[The Doctor]

In article <chine.bleu-53442...@news.eternal-september.org>,

Where's all the China Blue food? <chine...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>In article <321420255374547460.9...@free.teranews.com>,
> Brian <bcl...@es.co.nz> wrote:
>

>Most people don't want to sin.
>

>--
>My name is Indigo Montoya. \\ Annoying Usenet one post at a time.
>You flamed my father. \' At least I can stay in character.
>Prepare to be spanked. // When you look into the void,
>Stop posting that! `/ the void looks into you, and fulfills you.

That is if they know it.

[The Doctor]

In article <pjFos.924$1k5...@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com>,
brilton <not...@yacht.net> wrote:

The other way around brilton.

[The Doctor]

In article <chine.bleu-98952...@news.eternal-september.org>,

Where's all the China Blue food? <chine...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>In article <pjFos.924$1k5...@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com>,
> brilton <not...@yacht.net> wrote:
>

>Too definitive. According to christianity people don't decide these things,
>their god does. Anybody this definitive is usurping their god and doing heresy.
>A true christian would shrug and leave to their god to decide, praying for mercy
>for friend, enemy, and stranger alike.
>

>--
>My name is Indigo Montoya. \\ Annoying Usenet one post at a time.
>You flamed my father. \' At least I can stay in character.
>Prepare to be spanked. // When you look into the void,
>Stop posting that! `/ the void looks into you, and fulfills you.

Remember the 3 at the cross.

[The Doctor]

In article <3fea8dd5-944f-4c98...@u9g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>,

Nope. It is a corrupted cul-de-sac process.

[The Doctor]

In article <9ea523c6-fcee-4300...@l7g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>,

2 Thess 2:11 and Romans 1 should answer that.

[The Doctor]

In article <672f47de-6fab-459f...@q4g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>,

Stalin is not that far behind.

[The Doctor]

In article <a1883504-5e8d-4af0...@b19g2000vbt.googlegroups.com>,

solar penguin <solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>The Doctor wrote:
>
>> In article <e6459128-ec40-4135...@l18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>,
>> solar penguin <solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >Brian wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> A question from me.
>> >> If God created man in his own image then why are people disgusted by the
>> >> naked body, surely that is an insult to God.
>> >>
>> >
>> >But are people disgusted by naked bodies? The popularity of porn
>> >suggests that they aren't.
>>
>> porn dehumaises and animalise sexuality.
>> --
>
>Of course. That's why it's so popular.

UGH! pinkcross time for you.

[The Doctor]

In article <da5aa06b-52a0-4907...@h16g2000vby.googlegroups.com>,

Cul-de-sac science propagandanise that.

[The Doctor]

In article <7b218aa6-0d04-46f4...@b12g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>,

Flat Earthers are heretics.

[The Doctor]

In article <52155feb-a9a3-4f7f...@l18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>,

I do. After all it is based on a false premise.

Think of Evolutionary Science as Queen Xanxia.

[The Doctor]

In article <971c7283-759c-4b2e...@h16g2000vby.googlegroups.com>,

What about Buddhism and Planet of Spiders?

[Brian]

solar penguin <solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Brian wrote:
>> solar penguin <solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Brian wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> A question from me.
>>>> If God created man in his own image then why are people disgusted by the
>>>> naked body, surely that is an insult to God.
>>>>
>>>
>>> But are people disgusted by naked bodies? The popularity of porn
>>> suggests that they aren't.
>>
>> I have met people that are against porn and are still disgusted by naked
>> bodies. I knew someone that was offended by the sight of a naked body. Even
>> girls with thin string bikinis offended him and he would have to stop
>> watching the movie on TV.
>
> But those people are very much in the minority, and probably have
> psychological issues caused by too much religious indoctrination.

True, some take things to the extreme.

>
>> By the way I am not offended by the naked body.
>> The romans considered the body to be beautiful and made naked statures.
>>
>
> Even nowadays most cities have a couple of naked statues in them.
> That wouldn't happen if most people were disgusted by them.

I bet their are some people that would like to throw some clothes over
naked statues if they could. : )

I've found that incident things suddenly become harmful when suddenly
someone in power wants to ban something for some silly reason.

--
Regards Brian

[Brian]

The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
> In article <316755992374499348.9...@free.teranews.com>,

> Brian <bcl...@es.co.nz> wrote:
>> solar penguin <solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Brian wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> A question from me.
>>>> If God created man in his own image then why are people disgusted by the
>>>> naked body, surely that is an insult to God.
>>>>
>>>
>>> But are people disgusted by naked bodies? The popularity of porn
>>> suggests that they aren't.
>>
>> I have met people that are against porn and are still disgusted by naked
>> bodies. I knew someone that was offended by the sight of a naked body. Even
>> girls with thin string bikinis offended him and he would have to stop

>> watching the movie on TV. By the way I am not offended by the naked body.

>> The romans considered the body to be beautiful and made naked statures.
>>

>> --
>> Regards Brian
>
> Look up the Pink Cross one day.

I'm not referring to porn thats something different.


--
Regards Brian

[Brian]

"Where's all the China Blue food?" <chine...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <XnsA10AD3CE0253...@94.75.214.90>,

> James Boe <bi...@bobbity.com> wrote:
>
>>> Most people don't want to sin.
>>

>> I do. I just don't want to go to hell for it.
>> (I expect that 99.99% of the populace[1] agrees with me.).[3]
>
> Civilisation works because 99.99% (or perhaps 89.99%) of populace agrees to
> follow the rules. There have never been enough priests and guards and prisons to
> deal with more than a small number of people disobeying the rules.

Rules also need to be modified for changes in conditions.

--
Regards Brian

[Brian]

James Boe <bi...@bobbity.com> wrote:
> On 13 Nov 2012, "Where's all the China Blue food?"
> <chine...@yahoo.com> burbled, glooped, and managed to scrawl:

>
>> In article
>> <321420255374547460.9...@free.teranews.com>,
>> Brian <bcl...@es.co.nz> wrote:
>>

>>> "Where's all the China Blue food?" <chine...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>>>> In article <VHwos.454675$Rc7.3...@fx04.am4>,

>>>> "Stephen Wilson" <stephen.wils...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Brian" <bcl...@es.co.nz> wrote in message
>>>>> news:2074229648374499028....@free.teranews.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A mass murderer is not likely to believe in what Jesus is saying.
>>>>>> It not a
>>>>>> master of saying "yer ok I believe" but more really truly
>>>>>> believing. The exception is those that don't have a choice such
>>>>>> as babies, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> You reckon? I'd like to see the evidence for that.
>>>>>
>>>>> OK, what are your views on these examples:
>>>>

>>>> There's also the quote from the series Bless Me, Father:
>>>>
>>>> Of course I believe hell is a real place. It is a matter of strict
>>>> church orthodoxy. But only a damned fool would believe there's
>>>> actually anyone there.
>>>

>>> I often wonder how someone created this picture of hell {*} having

>>> burning fire and the devil having a tail and holding something like a
>>> fork. Maybe it created to frighten people and stop them from
>>> sinning.
>>

>> Most people don't want to sin.
>
> I do. I just don't want to go to hell for it.
> (I expect that 99.99% of the populace[1] agrees with me.).[3]

Sinning against someone seems like a good idea until someone sins against
you.
Robbing someone seems like a good plan until someone robs you.




> [1] There is always that fringe element.[2]
>
> [2] Of which I am a member. Just not THIS partcular fringe *points
> up at --> {*}



--
Regards Brian

[Stephen Wilson]

"solar penguin" <solar....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:672f47de-6fab-459f...@q4g2000vbg.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> The Doctor wrote:
>
>> In article <45nos.536250$Ol2.3...@fx25.am4>,

>> Stephen Wilson <stephen.wils...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >"Brian" <bcl...@es.co.nz> wrote in message

Hitler wrote: "Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the
will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am
fighting for the work of the Lord."

Hitler was a Christian and he believed he was doing God's work. He never
called himself Christ. That's just another one of Yads' lies. He really
can't help himself...

[The Doctor]

In article <298663679374594215.5...@free.teranews.com>,

Weird stuff censorship.

[The Doctor]

In article <1699772875374593308....@free.teranews.com>,

Depnds on who does the modifying.

[The Doctor]

In article <1147302236374593942....@free.teranews.com>,

Pink Croos is a ministry run by ex-porn stars.

[The Doctor]

In article <475290730374593033.3...@free.teranews.com>,

Exactly!

>
>
>> [1] There is always that fringe element.[2]
>>
>> [2] Of which I am a member. Just not THIS partcular fringe *points
>> up at --> {*}
>
>
>
>--
>Regards Brian

[The Doctor]

In article <chine.bleu-598FD...@news.eternal-september.org>,

Where's all the China Blue food? <chine...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>In article <k804k7$137$1...@gallifrey.nk.ca>,

>Are you claiming to be a messiah?

>
>--
>My name is Indigo Montoya. \\ Annoying Usenet one post at a time.
>You flamed my father. \' At least I can stay in character.
>Prepare to be spanked. // When you look into the void,
>Stop posting that! `/ the void looks into you, and fulfills you.

NO!

[The Doctor]

In article <mbSos.270018$YJ1.1...@fx09.am4>,

Hitler was no Christian!

[Brian]

Some thought that he was insane and mentally ill.
He had plans for a new world which he would have planned himself.
I still don't understand what he had against the Jews.

--
Regards Brian

[The Doctor]

In article <1214110767374632664....@free.teranews.com>,

Hitler was demon possessed. Note: Even the Devil can quote scripture.

[Stephen Wilson]

"Brian" <bcl...@es.co.nz> wrote in message

news:381008498374546939.1...@free.teranews.com...

>
> God forgives those that have sinned if you confess your sins.
> Those that believe in Jesus go to heaven.
> So in the cases above all those that believe in Jesus go to heaven. To
> believe in Jesus is to believe in God.

Have you ever really stopped to think about it properly?

God gives you a random time on planet earth - somewhere between 0 and say
100 years.

In that entire time, it doesn't matter what you do. The whole thing is just
a test. If, in the last few hours or even minutes of your time on earth you
believe in Jesus, you pass the test. Simple as that.

If you pass this rather childish test, you get to spend all eternity in
heaven. What do you think you'll be doing there? Don't forget - eternity is
a VERY long time. It's an infinite amount of time. So how do while away
infinity?

Is heaven somewhere within this universe? If it is, will it disappear in a
puff of smoke if God gets bored with the universe and decides to end it so
he can work on a different project?

[The Doctor]

In article <X7bps.318946$lz1....@fx28.am4>,

Problem is SW your logic IS a puff of smoke.

[The Doctor]

In article <chine.bleu-E35A9...@news.eternal-september.org>,

Where's all the China Blue food? <chine...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>In article <X7bps.318946$lz1....@fx28.am4>,
> "Stephen Wilson" <stephen.wils...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>

>> God gives you a random time on planet earth - somewhere between 0 and say
>> 100 years.
>>
>> In that entire time, it doesn't matter what you do. The whole thing is just
>> a test. If, in the last few hours or even minutes of your time on earth you
>> believe in Jesus, you pass the test. Simple as that.
>

>There is a parable that addresses this. A landowner hires some workers at dawn.
>He hires more at noon, and then another group near the end of the day. He then
>pays each worker the same amount no matter how long they been working.
>
>As you would expect the ones who worked the longest felt it was unfair they
>didn't get more money. The landowner points out they are getting the amount they
>contracted for and so don't deserve more. The landowner also points out it is
>his land and he did the hiring and could offer whatever wages he wanted to.
>
>So the answer is, yeah, it might not seem fair to you, but your opinion is
>irrelevant.
>
>The answers are sometimes uncomfortable.

>
>--
>My name is Indigo Montoya. \\ Annoying Usenet one post at a time.
>You flamed my father. \' At least I can stay in character.
>Prepare to be spanked. // When you look into the void,
>Stop posting that! `/ the void looks into you, and fulfills you.

Such a truth.

[solar penguin]

Where's all the China Blue food? wrote:

> In article <X7bps.318946$lz1....@fx28.am4>,
> "Stephen Wilson" <stephen.wils...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>

> > God gives you a random time on planet earth - somewhere between 0 and say
> > 100 years.
> >
> > In that entire time, it doesn't matter what you do. The whole thing is just
> > a test. If, in the last few hours or even minutes of your time on earth you
> > believe in Jesus, you pass the test. Simple as that.
>

> There is a parable that addresses this. A landowner hires some workers at dawn.
> He hires more at noon, and then another group near the end of the day. He then
> pays each worker the same amount no matter how long they been working.
>
> As you would expect the ones who worked the longest felt it was unfair they
> didn't get more money. The landowner points out they are getting the amount they
> contracted for and so don't deserve more. The landowner also points out it is
> his land and he did the hiring and could offer whatever wages he wanted to.
>
> So the answer is, yeah, it might not seem fair to you, but your opinion is
> irrelevant.
>
> The answers are sometimes uncomfortable.
>
> --

The big flaw in your analogy is that you say the farm workers were
"contracted". They chose to sign a contract, and were presumably
happy with the terms and conditions when they signed it. There are
also various labour laws and industrial tribunals to help decide what
is a fair wage.

I don't recall signing any such contract with God before being born,
agreeing to subject myself to His silly test. And what outside,
independent organisations exist to help keep things fair?

[solar penguin]

Where's all the China Blue food? wrote:

> In article <85b5795d-5bf0-4fef...@q1g2000vbx.googlegroups.com>,

> I don't think it really matters to anyone who isn't for hire anyway.
>
> --

But that's exactly when it matters the most.

Somewhere else in this thread I mentioned a recent New Scientist
article on the evolution of morality. Very interesting reading.
Apparently, this idea of fairness is so deeply embedded into the human
subconscious that many people will just plain refuse to take part in
any deal that we think is unfair to us, even if it means we're losing
out in the long run.

(In this case, things are slightly complicated by the fact the deity
offering the deal doesn't exist in the fist place. But not existing
is still no excuse for unfairness. After all, we've invented the
perfect figure, then fairness ought to be one of his perfect
qualities!)

[solar penguin]

Was he? Name the demon that possessed him then.

If anything, he was probably "possessed" by severe hormone problems.
(Remember, the autopsy confirmed he really did only have one ball!)
I've had more than my fair share of hormone-related mood swings,
including outrageous outbursts of hate, when I've wanted to see almost
everyone killed as violently as possible. The only difference is, I'm
not the leader of a country, so luckily no-one takes my mood swings
seriously.

[The Doctor]

In article <85b5795d-5bf0-4fef...@q1g2000vbx.googlegroups.com>,
solar penguin <solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>

What about God and Abraham?

[The Doctor]

In article <0e955539-4463-4f7e...@r7g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>,

Want about Jesus's encounters with demons esp legion.

[Stephen Wilson]

"solar penguin" <solar....@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:0e955539-4463-4f7e...@r7g2000vbo.googlegroups.com...

Hiler really just wanted to be an artist. His application to an art college
was rejected. He always believed it was a Jewish professor who rejected him.
How different the world today would be if he'd been accepted...

[The Doctor]

In article <chine.bleu-5CCBB...@news.eternal-september.org>,
Where's all the China Blue food? <chine...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>In article <k85ke8$beh$1...@gallifrey.nk.ca>,

>That was between Hebrews and their god. That's why gnetile christians don't have
>to be circumcised.

>
>--
>My name is Indigo Montoya. \\ Annoying Usenet one post at a time.
>You flamed my father. \' At least I can stay in character.
>Prepare to be spanked. // When you look into the void,
>Stop posting that! `/ the void looks into you, and fulfills you.

Sorry, but that is the pagan reasoning of Christianity.

[The Doctor]

In article <30vps.406709$9H4....@fx17.am4>,

Well bitterness yields Devil's fruits.

[The Doctor]

In article <chine.bleu-9FC6B...@news.eternal-september.org>,
Where's all the China Blue food? <chine...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>In article <f429655c-791f-464a...@k20g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>,

> solar penguin <solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > I don't think it really matters to anyone who isn't for hire anyway.
>

>> But that's exactly when it matters the most.
>

>Not really. The parable is to explain it doesn't matter when believers believe
>just that they do. It doesn't apply you're not going to believe in any case.

>
>> Somewhere else in this thread I mentioned a recent New Scientist
>> article on the evolution of morality. Very interesting reading.
>

>I really don't think Judaism or Christianity is the source of human morality. It
>is about trying to get people to be loving and moral, but I don't see it as the
>only way to achieve that. As to the John 3:15, or whatever it was, if it means
>the person has to try to be loving and moral and try to believe in something
>beyond their own selves, that applies to many non-christians.

>
>> Apparently, this idea of fairness is so deeply embedded into the human
>> subconscious that many people will just plain refuse to take part in
>> any deal that we think is unfair to us, even if it means we're losing
>> out in the long run.
>

>This parable parallels in part the story of Job: a god is not constrained by the
>notions of human fairness, and part of belief is accepting the apparent
>unfairness in fate. However atheists are faced with the same problem. The
>Newshour had a story about a happy, bouyant ALS caregiver that was killed by
>tainted medicine. Regardless of the whether you blame a god or nature or the
>pharmacy, the woman is still dead and the ALS sufferrer is still sufferring and
>now bereft his wife. Is that fair regardless of your beliefs?

>
>> (In this case, things are slightly complicated by the fact the deity
>> offering the deal doesn't exist in the fist place. But not existing
>> is still no excuse for unfairness. After all, we've invented the
>> perfect figure, then fairness ought to be one of his perfect
>> qualities!)
>

>Some religious people have deeply fulfilling lives: they would consider a
>lifetime in the fields its own reward. Also measured against eternity any finite
>time, whether decades of religious devotion or just the last few minutes of life
>are trivial.
>
>And my education included (briefly) Cantor's transfinites and transfinite
>induction as well as (not so briefly) calculus, so I know the human brain cannot
>really understand eternity, infinity, unlimitted, and other such notions.

>
>--
>My name is Indigo Montoya. \\ Annoying Usenet one post at a time.
>You flamed my father. \' At least I can stay in character.
>Prepare to be spanked. // When you look into the void,
>Stop posting that! `/ the void looks into you, and fulfills you.

And then there is John 3:16-17.

[The Doctor]

In article <chine.bleu-A1136...@news.eternal-september.org>,

Where's all the China Blue food? <chine...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>In article <k86e00$d5h$1...@gallifrey.nk.ca>,

>No, that's the subject of a much of Acts and the conflict between James and
>Paul. The conclusion was that gentiles could become christians without becoming
>jews, and that gentiles were subject to Noahide Law but not Mosaic Law.

>
>--
>My name is Indigo Montoya. \\ Annoying Usenet one post at a time.
>You flamed my father. \' At least I can stay in character.
>Prepare to be spanked. // When you look into the void,
>Stop posting that! `/ the void looks into you, and fulfills you.

Care to try again. The 10 commendments are Christian and Mosaic.

[Checkmate]

Warning! Always wear ANSI approved safety goggles when reading posts by
Checkmate!

Or if he had been rejected by a Jap.

--
Checkmate
KotAGoR XXXIV
AUK Hammer of Thor award, Feb. 2012
co-winner, Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook,
Line & Sinker award, May 2001
Copyright © 2012
all rights reserved


I'm Checkmate, and I approve this message...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpZhZAr1cQU


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[The Doctor]

In article <chine.bleu-24D24...@news.eternal-september.org>,

Where's all the China Blue food? <chine...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>In article <k86niq$qo0$1...@gallifrey.nk.ca>,

>No, they aren't. Read Acts 15.

All right:



Acts 15

King James Version (KJV)

15 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.

4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.

5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.

13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:

14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas and Silas, chief men among the brethren:

23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia.

24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,

26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.

28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

30 So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:

31 Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation.

32 And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them.

33 And after they had tarried there a space, they were let go in peace from the brethren unto the apostles.

34 Notwithstanding it pleased Silas to abide there still.

35 Paul also and Barnabas continued in Antioch, teaching and preaching the word of the Lord, with many others also.

36 And some days after Paul said unto Barnabas, Let us go again and visit our brethren in every city where we have preached the word of the Lord, and see how they do.

37 And Barnabas determined to take with them John, whose surname was Mark.

38 But Paul thought not good to take him with them, who departed from them from Pamphylia, and went not with them to the work.

39 And the contention was so sharp between them, that they departed asunder one from the other: and so Barnabas took Mark, and sailed unto Cyprus;

40 And Paul chose Silas, and departed, being recommended by the brethren unto the grace of God.

41 And he went through Syria and Cilicia, confirming the churches.

All right I will concede on circumcision.

>
>--
>My name is Indigo Montoya. \\ Annoying Usenet one post at a time.
>You flamed my father. \' At least I can stay in character.
>Prepare to be spanked. // When you look into the void,
>Stop posting that! `/ the void looks into you, and fulfills you.

[The Doctor]

In article <643hie.t...@news.alt.net>,

That is a red card offence.

[The Doctor]

In article <1ktomvb.18h6z2318altrlN%i...@ster.invalid>,
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?_=CF_M_Poster?= <This.is.mockery...@Cyril.Lord.invalid
> wrote:

>The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>> Care to try again. The 10 commendments are Christian and Mosaic.
>

> The ten condiments are: Salt; Pepper; Mustard; Vinegar;
> Horseradish; Chilli; plus several others that I can't quite
> bring to mind right now.
>
>--
> �mp
>
> I have a bird that whistles
> and I have birds that sing

Saffron, is the 7th.

[The Doctor]

In article <chine.bleu-0B28B...@news.eternal-september.org>,

Where's all the China Blue food? <chine...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>In article <k86svq$2u0$1...@gallifrey.nk.ca>,

> doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>
>> 15 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said,
>> Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
>

>Circumcision is part of the covenant between Abraham and his god and included
>Abraham's family and servants. Circumcision is then used throughout the bible to
>refer to Hebrews and people who have been joined to the Hebrews. Moses made a
>subsequent covenant on behalf of Hebrews, and only Hebrews, which is Mosaic Law.
>The Ten Commandments are just the first ten clauses of Mosaic Law: the Ten only
>applied to Jews.

>
>> 5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed,
>> saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep
>> the law of Moses.
>

>Again the Law begins with the Ten Commandments. The argument is that to be a
>Christian you have to be a Jew which means circumcision (Abraham covenant) and
>obey the Law (Moses covenant).

>
>> 10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the
>> disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
>

>This is other argument: that the holy ghost is coming to Gentiles and thus they
>appear to be welcomed into the community without first becoming Jews.

>
>> 12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and
>> Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles
>> by them.
>

>This is an application of the test you will know a tree by its fruit.
>
>(More arguing.)

>
>> 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no
>> greater burden than these necessary things;
>>
>> 29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from
>> things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye
>> shall do well. Fare ye well.
>

>This is mostly Noahide Law. According to Genesis, Noah is the forefather of Jews
>and Gentiles, and Noah made a covenant on behalf of his family that included the
>above rules and a prohibition of murder. So it was okay to expect at least this
>much from Gentiles. Noah predates Abraham and Moses: Gentiles are not require to
>be circumcised, nor to be obey Mosaic Law, nor to obey the Ten Commandments.

>
>> All right I will concede on circumcision.
>

>Which implicitly includes the Law.
>

Ask and ye shall receive.

[Checkmate]

Warning! Always wear ANSI approved safety goggles when reading posts by
Checkmate!

First, check out what Ï M Poster said:

>
> The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>
> > Care to try again. The 10 commendments are Christian and Mosaic.
>

> The ten condiments are: Salt; Pepper; Mustard; Vinegar;
> Horseradish; Chilli; plus several others that I can't quite
> bring to mind right now.
>

Ketchup, mayonnaise...

[Brian]

"Stephen Wilson" <stephen.wils...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> "Brian" <bcl...@es.co.nz> wrote in message

> news:381008498374546939.1...@free.teranews.com...
>>
>> God forgives those that have sinned if you confess your sins.
>> Those that believe in Jesus go to heaven.
>> So in the cases above all those that believe in Jesus go to heaven. To
>> believe in Jesus is to believe in God.
>
> Have you ever really stopped to think about it properly?

>
> God gives you a random time on planet earth - somewhere between 0 and say
> 100 years.

Imagine the population on earth if we lived longer than 100.

>
> In that entire time, it doesn't matter what you do. The whole thing is just
> a test. If, in the last few hours or even minutes of your time on earth you
> believe in Jesus, you pass the test. Simple as that.

But it only those that truly believe not those that just happen to believe
just to save themselves.

>
> If you pass this rather childish test, you get to spend all eternity in
> heaven. What do you think you'll be doing there? Don't forget - eternity is
> a VERY long time. It's an infinite amount of time. So how do while away
> infinity?

What's there to do as we no longer have a physical body in heaven. We would
be a changed person without the same need to want things.

>
> Is heaven somewhere within this universe? If it is, will it disappear in a
> puff of smoke if God gets bored with the universe and decides to end it so
> he can work on a different project?

It is believed to be the home of God. No one knows for certain where it is
or what it looks like. Then again it may not be a physical place like the
earth.

--
Regards Brian

[Brian]

Thanks Stephen. It's interesting to know that.

if he didn't have such an impact on the Germans listening to him things
could be different also
How can one man have so much power over his country men.
He even wanted to train children to fight in the war.

--
Regards Brian

[The Doctor]

In article <64482q.v...@news.alt.net>,

Checkmate <Lunati...@The.Edge> wrote:
>Warning! Always wear ANSI approved safety goggles when reading posts by
>Checkmate!
>
>First, check out what Ï M Poster said:
>
>
>>
>> The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>>
>> > Care to try again. The 10 commendments are Christian and Mosaic.
>>
>> The ten condiments are: Salt; Pepper; Mustard; Vinegar;
>> Horseradish; Chilli; plus several others that I can't quite
>> bring to mind right now.
>>
>
>Ketchup, mayonnaise...
>

Saffron and curry come to mind.

[The Doctor]

In article <1657868257374849562....@free.teranews.com>,

Here is a good question: Based on maths and exponentation,
how long has humanity been around?

[The Doctor]

In article <467058636374849254.0...@free.teranews.com>,

Hitler was not Christian. Remember the Devil knows scripture.

[pandora]

On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 02:30:49 +0000, Ï M Poster wrote:

> The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>

>> Care to try again. The 10 commendments are Christian and Mosaic.
>

> The ten condiments are: Salt; Pepper; Mustard; Vinegar; Horseradish;
> Chilli; plus several others that I can't quite bring to mind right now.

Parsley, sage, rosemary & tyme.

[pandora]

On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 02:30:49 +0000, Ï M Poster wrote:

> The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>

>> Care to try again. The 10 commendments are Christian and Mosaic.
>

[The Doctor]

In article <AtqdnegscIRcdDrN...@scnresearch.com>,

Saffron as well you old dolt!

[solar penguin]

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <3fea8dd5-944f-4c98...@u9g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>,
> solar penguin <solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >The Doctor wrote:
> >
> >> In article <da1e38a6-6f08-43a9...@p11g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>,
> >> solar penguin <solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >The Doctor wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> In article <484830478374422950.2...@free.teranews.com>,

> >> >> Brian <bcl...@es.co.nz> wrote:
> >> >> >"Stephen Wilson" <stephen.wils...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> >> >> >> "Where's all the China Blue food?" <chine...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> >> >> news:chine.bleu-7D921...@news.eternal-september.org...
> >> >> >>> Did Adam and Eve have navels?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Some interesting questions Stephen
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Most Christians would say no, because neither Adam or Eve had a mother. But
> >> >> >> then they also believe that Adam was created from dust, but God had to use a
> >> >> >> rib from Adam instead of dust for Eve.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >No as they were created by God.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Did they have sexual organs? If so, isn't that a sign that God expected them
> >> >> >> to sin and would therefore need to make babies?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >The purpose of having sexual organs is to be able to reproduce which is
> >> >> >what God wanted.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> If man was created in God's image, does that mean God also has a male sexual
> >> >> >> organ?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >No. What would be the use of a sexual organ without a woman and woman was
> >> >> >created after man.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Were they created as babies, children or adults? Who taught them to speak?
> >> >> >> And what language?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Adults as God created man in his own image.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> When God created Adam, what was he thinking when he gave him an appendix? Or
> >> >> >> a back that isn't adapted to walking upright? Or limbs that can't grow back
> >> >> >> if they are amputated? Or lacking the ability to fly or breathe underwater?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >However man has two eyes instead of one, two arms instead of one so that if
> >> >> >he loses an eye or a limp he has another to keep him going. Also he is
> >> >> >created in the image of god. The human body is a remarkable achievement.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Do Christians think that because God allegedly took a rib from Adam to make
> >> >> >> Eve that men have one less rib than women?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >No.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Did Adam and Eve go to heaven? They didn't believe in Jesus after all...
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Good question. I don't think anyone has an answer.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> When God told them they'd die if they ate the fruit, Adam didn't just carry
> >> >> >> on living, but he apparently lived for another 930 years!
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Maybe we live shorter life's to keep the population down. Just a thought.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >--
> >> >> >Regards Brian
> >> >>
> >> >> Darwinian science is a cul-de-sac science.
> >> >> --
> >> >
> >> >So you keep saying. But you still haven't explained what you mean by
> >> >that.
> >> >
> >> >A scientific cul-de-sac would imply it leads to a dead end where
> >> >scientific discovery and development comes to a stop. But studying
> >> >evolution _has_ led to further scientific discoveries regarding
> >> >ecology and medicine, and looks set to lead to many more. Just the
> >> >opposite of a cul-de-sac, a scientific through road.
> >> >
> >> >You personally may not like the direction this road is heading, but
> >> >that doesn't change the fact that it isn't a cul-de-sac.
> >>
> >> Look at natural selection in totalitarianism.
> >> --
> >
> >There's no difference between that and natural selection in countries
> >governed any other way.
> >
> >_Natural_ selection is a _natural_ process, nothing to do with the
> >artificial processes of government.
>
> Nope.

Can you point out any observed differences in the way species evolve
in countries under totalitarian governments compared to the way they
evolve in other countries?

> It is a corrupted cul-de-sac process.
> --

Who corrupted it? When was it corrupted? How was it corrupted? And
what was the original, uncorrupted selection process like?

Of course, you'll probably fail to answer these questions, as usual...

[solar penguin]

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <7b218aa6-0d04-46f4...@b12g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>,

> solar penguin <solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >The Doctor wrote:
> >

> >> In article <3d2301a2-43f6-4633...@m13g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>,

> >> solar penguin <solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >The Doctor wrote:
> >> >

> >> >> In article <7ace2517-f0f9-477e...@d17g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>,

> >> >> solar penguin <solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >The Doctor wrote:
> >> >> >

> >> >> >> In article <485328917374246380.6...@free.teranews.com>,
> >> >> >> Brian <bcl...@es.co.nz> wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >God found no reason to give man this knowledge. Also man thought that the
> >> >> >> >earth was flat and the sun rotated around the earth. Man could survive
> >> >> >> >without knowing these things just like some tribes in Africa.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Mind you Flat Earth was a non-God based belief.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Then how come the Bible describes the Earth as flat? How come all the
> >> >> >famous Victorian Flat Earth kooks (including Parallax himself) were
> >> >> >Christian fundamentalists, convinced they were doing God's work? How
> >> >> >come their greatest scientific opponent was the co-discoverer of
> >> >> >evolution, Alfred Russel Wallace?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I bet you know as little about the history of Flat Earthism as you do
> >> >> >about everything else.
> >> >>
> >> >> The world is described as an ord in a Psalm.
> >> >> --
> >> >
> >> >Which one?
> >> >
> >> >The world is also described as resting on foundation pillars in a
> >> >couple of other Psalms (75 and 82 if you're interested), implying the
> >> >psalmist thought it was flat when he wrote those ones.
> >>
> >> 0/10 SP. IT is a metaphor for what?
> >> --
> >
> >0/10 Yads. You're assuming the psalmist intended the foundation
> >pillars to be metaphorical and the orb to be literal. There's no
> >evidence that this was his intention.
> >
> >(The Flat Earthers would claim it was the other way round: the
> >foundation pillars would've been a literal description while the orb
> >was a metaphor for Godly power.)
>
> Flat Earthers are heretics.
> --

Maybe. But they would probably deny it and insist that Spherical
Earthers are the heretics.

Heresy is in the eye of the beholder.

[solar penguin]

solar penguin wrote:
> The Doctor wrote:
>

> > In article <9ea523c6-fcee-4300...@l7g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>,

> > solar penguin <solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >The Doctor wrote:
> > >

> > >> In article <702d6094-fb1f-44e0...@q4g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>,

> > >> solar penguin <solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >The Doctor wrote:
> > >> >

> > >> >> In article <743348cd-eabe-4935...@s14g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,

> > >> >> solar penguin <solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >The Doctor wrote:
> > >> >> >

> > >> >> >> In article <c1Kns.228113$9D6.1...@fx27.am4>,

> > >> >> >> Stephen Wilson <stephen.wils...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> >"Brian" <bcl...@es.co.nz> wrote in message

> > >> >> >> >news:1990492818374289644....@free.teranews.com...
> > >> >> >>>
> > >> >> >> >> Some parents use the scare tactic on children saying that if the wonder
> > >> >> >> >> too far in the woods then the a create will eat them.
> > >> >> >> >> One thing worth considering is that Eve put her trust in the serpent but
> > >> >> >> >> what if he was not telling the truth and she died when she eat the apple.
> > >> >> >> >> However would you put something poisonous next to a child and knowing if
> > >> >> >> >> they ate it then they would die.
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> >Oh. So now you're saying God lies.
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> If you beleive God lies then you live in a lie.
> > >> >> >> --
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >1 Kings 22:23
> > >> >> > Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the
> > >> >> >mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning
> > >> >> >thee.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >2 Chronicles 18:22
> > >> >> > Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the
> > >> >> >mouth of these thy prophets.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >Jeremiah 4:10
> > >> >> > Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >Jeremiah 20:7
> > >> >> > O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >Ezekiel 14:9
> > >> >> > And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the
> > >> >> >Lord have deceived that prophet.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Disbelievers got decieved and handed over to Satan.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >2 Thessalonians 2:11
> > >> >> > For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they
> > >> >> >should believe a lie.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Even today that holds true after you will be sent a Strong Delusion if you do
> > >> >> not believe.
> > >> >> --
> > >> >
> > >> >The important thing is that your Bible, your precious KJV Bible, says
> > >> >that God does sometimes lie. It doesn't matter whether or not the
> > >> >people being lied to just happen to be believers or unbelievers. What
> > >> >matters is that the Bible says that God does sometimes lie, and you
> > >> >said that he doesn't.
> > >>
> > >> God lies?
> > >
> > >That's what your KJV Bible says. Are you saying the Bible is wrong?
> > >
> > >> Sorry he is not the Doctor.
> > >> --
> >
> > 2 Thess 2:11 and Romans 1 should answer that.
> > --
>
> So on one hand we have St Paul knowing the world was spherical (no
> doubt as a result of his superior Graeco-Roman education), and on the
> other we have almost all the other Bible authors who thought it was
> flat.
>
> All in all, you can't say the Bible clearly supports the idea of a
> spherical world. Taken as a whole, it's ambiguous and indecisive at
> best.

Oops. Posted the wrong reply to the wrong message in this thread.
(Serves me right for neglecting the group for a few days. It's hard
to remember which subthread was which.)

Anyway, what I meant to say was...

So on one hand we have St Paul denying that your God lies, and on the
other we have almost all the other Bible authors who think he does.

All in all, you can't say the Bible clearly supports the idea of a
truthful God. Taken as a whole, it's ambiguous and indecisive at
best.

[solar penguin]

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <971c7283-759c-4b2e...@h16g2000vby.googlegroups.com>,
> solar penguin <solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >Stephen Wilson wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> OK, what are your views on these examples:
> >>
> >> A man grows up and is particularly influenced by a wise neighbour who
> >> happens to be a Buddhist. The man spends his life helping people in need,
> >> giving to the poor. When he dies, he doesn't turn to Jesus, but he regrets
> >> that he didn't do more while he could.
> >>
> >> A priest doesn't marry, never has sex. But he marries hundreds of couples.
> >> One day he sees a young boy. In a moment of madness, he has sex. The priest
> >> then confesses his sins to Jesus and prays for forgiveness. He believes it
> >> was Satan who tempted him. He dies, many years later and never lost his
> >> faith in Jesus. The unfortunate boy was never able to tell anyone, blamed
> >> himself - perhaps it was God punishing him for doing wrong - and grew up to
> >> have many problems all stemming from his one encounter with the priest.
> >>
> >> Finally a man spends his life lieing, cheating, stealing. He rapes a couple
> >> of young women, murders a young boy for his mobile phone. On the day he
> >> dies, he suddenly gets scared, finds Jesus and asks for forgiveness.
> >>
> >> In your eyes, which of these 3 gets to go to heaven? Which ones get to spend
> >> all eternity in hell?
> >
> >Obviously the Buddhist wouldn't do either. He'd be reincarnated.
> >That's what Buddhists do. And some non-Buddhists sometimes do it as
> >well, if that hypnotic past-life regression can be believed.
>
> What about Buddhism and Planet of Spiders?
> --

What about telepathy and The Sensorites?

I'm still waiting for that video clip!

[solar penguin]

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <85b5795d-5bf0-4fef...@q1g2000vbx.googlegroups.com>,
> solar penguin <solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >Where's all the China Blue food? wrote:
> >
> >> In article <X7bps.318946$lz1....@fx28.am4>,

> >> "Stephen Wilson" <stephen.wils...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > God gives you a random time on planet earth - somewhere between 0 and say
> >> > 100 years.
> >> >

> >> > In that entire time, it doesn't matter what you do. The whole thing is just
> >> > a test. If, in the last few hours or even minutes of your time on earth you
> >> > believe in Jesus, you pass the test. Simple as that.
> >>

> >> There is a parable that addresses this. A landowner hires some workers at dawn.
> >> He hires more at noon, and then another group near the end of the day. He then
> >> pays each worker the same amount no matter how long they been working.
> >>
> >> As you would expect the ones who worked the longest felt it was unfair they
> >> didn't get more money. The landowner points out they are getting the amount they
> >> contracted for and so don't deserve more. The landowner also points out it is
> >> his land and he did the hiring and could offer whatever wages he wanted to.
> >>
> >> So the answer is, yeah, it might not seem fair to you, but your opinion is
> >> irrelevant.
> >>
> >> The answers are sometimes uncomfortable.
> >>
> >> --
> >
> >The big flaw in your analogy is that you say the farm workers were
> >"contracted". They chose to sign a contract, and were presumably
> >happy with the terms and conditions when they signed it. There are
> >also various labour laws and industrial tribunals to help decide what
> >is a fair wage.
> >
> >I don't recall signing any such contract with God before being born,
> >agreeing to subject myself to His silly test. And what outside,
> >independent organisations exist to help keep things fair?
> >
>
> What about God and Abraham?

> --

Abraham doesn't have power of attorney to sign contracts on my behalf.

[solar penguin]

Where's all the China Blue food? wrote:

> In article <f429655c-791f-464a...@k20g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>,
> solar penguin <solar....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I don't think it really matters to anyone who isn't for hire anyway.
>
> > But that's exactly when it matters the most.
>
> Not really. The parable is to explain it doesn't matter when believers believe
> just that they do. It doesn't apply you're not going to believe in any case.
>

It makes a difference to those people who would be prepared to believe
if there were something _worth_ believing in.

> > Somewhere else in this thread I mentioned a recent New Scientist
> > article on the evolution of morality. Very interesting reading.
>
> I really don't think Judaism or Christianity is the source of human morality. It
> is about trying to get people to be loving and moral, but I don't see it as the
> only way to achieve that. As to the John 3:15, or whatever it was, if it means
> the person has to try to be loving and moral and try to believe in something
> beyond their own selves, that applies to many non-christians.
>
> > Apparently, this idea of fairness is so deeply embedded into the human
> > subconscious that many people will just plain refuse to take part in
> > any deal that we think is unfair to us, even if it means we're losing
> > out in the long run.
>
> This parable parallels in part the story of Job: a god is not constrained by the
> notions of human fairness, and part of belief is accepting the apparent
> unfairness in fate. However atheists are faced with the same problem. The
> Newshour had a story about a happy, bouyant ALS caregiver that was killed by
> tainted medicine. Regardless of the whether you blame a god or nature or the
> pharmacy, the woman is still dead and the ALS sufferrer is still sufferring and
> now bereft his wife. Is that fair regardless of your beliefs?

***WWWOOOOOOSSSHHH!!!!****

You've missed my point. You're not even within miles of my point.
Probably not even in the same continent as it.

People people will just plain refuse to take part in any deal that we
think will unfair to us, even if it means we're losing out in the long
run by rejecting the deal. For that reason, it's in the interests of
the person offering us the deal to make it as fair as possible, so
that we're more likely to accept it. (A bit like Adam Smith's
invisible hand, except this is more complicated and actually seems to
work in practice, and isn't motivated by long term greed but by an
innate sense of fair play, so not very like Adam Smith's invisible
hand at all then.)

Now, no doubt you think atheists are losing out in the long run by not
accepting God's deal. But if the deal were fairer in the first place,
more people would choose to accept it instead of rejecting it and
being atheists (or Buddhists or pagans, or etc. etc.)

Why would a supposedly loving and wise God go out of His way to come
up with an unfair deal that damages the success of His own religion?

(BTW as for the the tragic incident you mentioned, your description
makes it sound unfortunate rather than unfair as such. But I don't
know the details so I can't really comment.)