Top 10/10
R.J. Smith
It's very easy to complain about the things you don't like. It's a lot
harder to discuss the things you do like. In an effort to do so, however,
I recently had a look through my (quite impressive) bookshelves and tried
to pick out those books I'd given a score of 10/10 to for the Rankings
page.
I'm usually fairly happy to award books high marks and there are an awful
number of books with 9 or 9.5. But here is the cream of the cream. In, of
course, my opinion.
Timewyrm: Exodus
Wonderful stuff, this. Terrance Dicks finally proves once and for all why
he's so great. I reread this recently and it's a joy to behold.
Timewyrm: Revelation
Amazing. Simply amazing. The book that blew every expectation I ever had
about Doctor Who right out of the water. Superb, tragic, beautiful and
lovely.
Cat's Cradle: Warhead
Powerful stuff. Cartmel writes beautifully and his Doctor is a great one,
being the height of the shadowy, mysterious Doctor - whose elaborate plan
completely fails to work at the end, requiring desperate improvisation.
Little wonder the seventh Doctor of the NAs is my all-time favourite.
Transit
This one is dense and complex and not very appealing the first time round.
I reread it a few years ago and was completely amazed. The second time
round, this seems like a completely different book. It's so complex and so
dense that it took me at least two reads to even work out what it was
about. But I'm really glad I did so.
The Left Handed Hummingbird
A page-turning, gut-wrenching psychological thriller. I simply couldn't
put this book down when I was reading it. Kate really gets a handle on the
whole concept of Doctor Who in a startling way. Great stuff.
Warlock
I didn't think Cartmel's second book could possibly live up to Warhead. I
was wrong. This is a book so good it doesn't *need* the Doctor. Beautiful
and heart-wrenching, you can't help but feel for it's main character
(that's Chick, BTW and don't let anyone tell you different).
The Also People
Not only is this fabulously written with a great new take on the seventh
Doctor, the introduction of the People and some astonishingly wonderful
scenes, it's also tremendously funny. The books have always struggled
with humour and only Aaronovitch and Gareth Roberts seem to have gotten
it just right.
Just War
This is deceptively simple. It's content to be nothing more than a truly
excellent Doctor Who story. The treatment of Benny is a real turning point
in her character and the simple power of the story manages to sustain it
even across a slightly disappointing ending.
Warchild
This clicked with me far more than I was expecting. Grossly underrated,
this book continues Cartmel's vision for Doctor Who: simply write good
stories and everything will fall into place. It's also the most Doctorish
of his three stories, which makes it a wonder that it isn't better liked.
So Vile a Sin
Doctor Who does the epic. Taking the 'broad' in the New Adventures
manifesto to new extremes, this book covers multiple dimensions, a dying
Doctor, the collapse of the Earth Empire and the most beautiful death
scene for a companion ever.
Lungbarrow
Astonishing. Simply astonishing. Quite how the book that supposedly
'answers all the questions' ends up throwing up even more mystery about
the series is beyond me, but I'm not complaining. Far from it. A fitting
end to the seventh Doctor's era, with a gorgeous look at the life he left
and glimpses into the past and future.
Walking to Babylon
Another winner from Kate. This really cements the Benny Books in quality
terms, with a really well-thought-out story, a magnificent Benny and
glorious writing.
Beige Planet Mars
Tremendous fun. Jokes a-plenty, a wonderful setting, amusing supporting
characters and a great back-story.
System Shock
The best MA. Tightly plotted, a great fourth Doctor and plenty of neat
touches. I can't wait for the sequel.
Killing Ground
Really good stuff from Steve Lyons. This is the most sensible use of the
Cybermen ever, and one of the few times where they represented a real
threat. This is very well thought-out and quite poignant in its ideas
about the series and the Doctor.
The Plotters
The Hartnell era to a T. Gareth Roberts writes his
exactly-as-it-would-have-been story for the first Doctor and it works
amazingly well. There's a great use of all the companions, an entertaining
story and some wonderful jokes and situations.
Alien Bodies
Astonishing stuff. When so many others concentrate on the series' past,
Lawrence Miles gives us a glimpse of the future, in more ways than one. In
many ways a distillation of the important elements of the series, this is
a wonderful story and a good use of the eighth Doctor. Mind-bogglingly
good and throwing up way too many questions for its own good.
Eye of Heaven
The book that finally proved how good it was possible for Past Doctor
stories to be. Not just in a way that paid homage to a dead TV series, but
in a surprising and fresh way. The use of the unreliable first-person
narrator, the non-linear thematic structure, the concentration on Leela,
the vision of the fourth Doctor's POV and the sheer scope of this tale
make it something truly special.
Catastrophea
A fun little tale, well told. This goes the other way, but is no less good
for being an almost exact representation of a Saturday evening tea time
adventure from 1973. Rip-roaringly fast in its page-turning abilities,
but no less good for being so, it shows that it's possible to churn out
really good books just by writing Doctor Who the way it always was.
Three from Kate Orman, three from Ben Aaronovitch, three from Cartmel, two
from Terrance Dicks, two from Lance Parkin. 11 New Adventures, 3 missing
Adventures, 2 Benny Adventures, 2 past Doctor Adventures and 1 eighth
Doctor adventure. And hopefully many more to come in the future!
- Robert Smith?
Philip Craggs
R.J. Smith wrote:
> It's very easy to complain about the things you don't like. It's a lot
> harder to discuss the things you do like. In an effort to do so, however,
> I recently had a look through my (quite impressive) bookshelves and tried
> to pick out those books I'd given a score of 10/10 to for the Rankings
> page.
>
> I'm usually fairly happy to award books high marks and there are an awful
> number of books with 9 or 9.5. But here is the cream of the cream. In, of
> course, my opinion.
>
> Timewyrm: Exodus
>
> Wonderful stuff, this. Terrance Dicks finally proves once and for all why
> he's so great. I reread this recently and it's a joy to behold.
>
>
Spoilt for me by the way the Doctor has no quarms about Ace running around
with a gun and shooting Nazi's. Or the way Ace had no quarms about running
around with a gun shooting Nazis.
> Timewyrm: Revelation
>
> Amazing. Simply amazing. The book that blew every expectation I ever had
> about Doctor Who right out of the water. Superb, tragic, beautiful and
> lovely.
>
>
I agree 100%.
> Cat's Cradle: Warhead
>
> Powerful stuff. Cartmel writes beautifully and his Doctor is a great one,
> being the height of the shadowy, mysterious Doctor - whose elaborate plan
> completely fails to work at the end, requiring desperate improvisation.
> Little wonder the seventh Doctor of the NAs is my all-time favourite.
>
>
Not so sure on this one. It was good, but i didn't think it was that good.
> Transit
>
> This one is dense and complex and not very appealing the first time round.
> I reread it a few years ago and was completely amazed. The second time
> round, this seems like a completely different book. It's so complex and so
> dense that it took me at least two reads to even work out what it was
> about. But I'm really glad I did so.
>
>
Hmm.
> The Left Handed Hummingbird
>
> A page-turning, gut-wrenching psychological thriller. I simply couldn't
> put this book down when I was reading it. Kate really gets a handle on the
> whole concept of Doctor Who in a startling way. Great stuff.
>
>
My least favourite Kate Orman novel, i found unbelievably boring. I just had a
real struggle reading it, i had to make myself turn the page. I simply didn't
care about any of the characters or the situations. A total failure for me, 5
out of 10.
> Warlock
>
> I didn't think Cartmel's second book could possibly live up to Warhead. I
> was wrong. This is a book so good it doesn't *need* the Doctor. Beautiful
> and heart-wrenching, you can't help but feel for it's main character
> (that's Chick, BTW and don't let anyone tell you different).
>
>
Again, good but not fantastic for me.
> The Also People
>
> Not only is this fabulously written with a great new take on the seventh
> Doctor, the introduction of the People and some astonishingly wonderful
> scenes, it's also tremendously funny. The books have always struggled
> with humour and only Aaronovitch and Gareth Roberts seem to have gotten
> it just right.
>
>
Fairly good, but i quibble with saying Gareth Roberts got the level of humour
right. I think he went way OTT and made 'The Romance of Crime' terrible and
'The English Way of Death' simply unreadable.
> Just War
>
> This is deceptively simple. It's content to be nothing more than a truly
> excellent Doctor Who story. The treatment of Benny is a real turning point
> in her character and the simple power of the story manages to sustain it
> even across a slightly disappointing ending.
>
>
Not read it.
> Warchild
>
> This clicked with me far more than I was expecting. Grossly underrated,
> this book continues Cartmel's vision for Doctor Who: simply write good
> stories and everything will fall into place. It's also the most Doctorish
> of his three stories, which makes it a wonder that it isn't better liked.
>
>
The best of the War trilogy.
> So Vile a Sin
>
> Doctor Who does the epic. Taking the 'broad' in the New Adventures
> manifesto to new extremes, this book covers multiple dimensions, a dying
> Doctor, the collapse of the Earth Empire and the most beautiful death
> scene for a companion ever.
>
>
Not read it.
> Lungbarrow
>
> Astonishing. Simply astonishing. Quite how the book that supposedly
> 'answers all the questions' ends up throwing up even more mystery about
> the series is beyond me, but I'm not complaining. Far from it. A fitting
> end to the seventh Doctor's era, with a gorgeous look at the life he left
> and glimpses into the past and future.
>
>
Absolutely fantastic. The only novel i've ever given 10 out of 10 to, and
possibly the only one i ever will.
> Walking to Babylon
>
> Another winner from Kate. This really cements the Benny Books in quality
> terms, with a really well-thought-out story, a magnificent Benny and
> glorious writing.
>
> Beige Planet Mars
>
> Tremendous fun. Jokes a-plenty, a wonderful setting, amusing supporting
> characters and a great back-story.
>
>
Don't read the Bernice NAs/
> System Shock
>
> The best MA. Tightly plotted, a great fourth Doctor and plenty of neat
> touches. I can't wait for the sequel.
>
>
Haven't read.
> Killing Ground
>
> Really good stuff from Steve Lyons. This is the most sensible use of the
> Cybermen ever, and one of the few times where they represented a real
> threat. This is very well thought-out and quite poignant in its ideas
> about the series and the Doctor.
>
>
Great stuff.
> The Plotters
>
> The Hartnell era to a T. Gareth Roberts writes his
> exactly-as-it-would-have-been story for the first Doctor and it works
> amazingly well. There's a great use of all the companions, an entertaining
> story and some wonderful jokes and situations.
>
>
Easily the best of Gareth Roberts.
> Alien Bodies
>
> Astonishing stuff. When so many others concentrate on the series' past,
> Lawrence Miles gives us a glimpse of the future, in more ways than one. In
> many ways a distillation of the important elements of the series, this is
> a wonderful story and a good use of the eighth Doctor. Mind-bogglingly
> good and throwing up way too many questions for its own good.
>
>
Average, but reads like a big fan-wank on the part of Mr Miles. Like he wanted
the series to be called 'Doctor Who, based on the novels of Lawrence Miles'. I
didn't really like what he said in it. GAve far too much away. But hay, i
loved Lungbarrow so...
> Eye of Heaven
>
> The book that finally proved how good it was possible for Past Doctor
> stories to be. Not just in a way that paid homage to a dead TV series, but
> in a surprising and fresh way. The use of the unreliable first-person
> narrator, the non-linear thematic structure, the concentration on Leela,
> the vision of the fourth Doctor's POV and the sheer scope of this tale
> make it something truly special.
> Catastrophea
> A fun little tale, well told. This goes the other way, but is no less
> goodfor being an almost exact representation of a Saturday evening tea time
> venture from 1973. Rip-roaringly fast in its page-turning abilities,
> but no less good for being so, it shows that it's possible to churn out
> really good books just by writing Doctor Who the way it always was.
>
> Three from Kate Orman, three from Ben Aaronovitch, three from Cartmel, two
> from Terrance Dicks, two from Lance Parkin. 11 New Adventures, 3 missing
> Adventures, 2 Benny Adventures, 2 past Doctor Adventures and 1 eighth
> Doctor adventure. And hopefully many more to come in the future!
>
> - Robert Smith?
Personally, my faves that you have missed are 'Cat's Cradle: Time's Crucible'
(wonderfully complex, great plot, really spooky). 'The Pit' (yes, i mean it),
'Lucifer Rising' (great space story, the closest we have to hard sci-fi.
Absolutely cracking stuff). 'The Dimension Riders' (just great, another real
plot one).Cold Fusion (wonderful, simply wonderful). 'The Crystal Bucephalus'
(another complex plot, i just love paradoxes and explorations of time etc).
The Witch Hunters (very good). Deep Blue (it just worked, i don't know why)
Matrix (absolutely fabulous, wondeful use of Who's greatest villain). The
Infinity Doctors (slightly slow, but great characterisation of the Doctor).
--
Philip Craggs
'What is called a reason for living is also an excellent reason for dying.'
(Albert Camus).
Paradise Towers: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/3694/
Azaxyr
>
>Timewyrm: Revelation
>
>Amazing. Simply amazing. The book that blew every expectation I ever had
>about Doctor Who right out of the water. Superb, tragic, beautiful and
>lovely.
WHY?
It had a few good lines in it, and a generally
decent plot, but overall it killed any hint of
reality Dr Who was still clutching onto. It
totally takes the piss out of time travel by
exemplifying that the Dr can get out of any
situation by simply "remembering to go back
and put the key under the rock" at some point
in the future, so to speak. It makes no sense,
and it's enturely silly - the very basis of most
of the books that followed, which now accept
magic as reality, and nothing more ever needs
to be explained, just accepted at the author's
say so.
And after two great stories in the series by
John Peel and Terrance Dicks, it is a very
disappointing ending to the first story arc of
the New Adventures.
Unfortunately, it was a sign of what was to
follow, with only the rarest of exceptions.
But by no means is this the worst book of the series -
with such fierce competition, it actually rates
as "average".
>Cat's Cradle: Warhead
>
>Powerful stuff. Cartmel writes beautifully and his Doctor is a great one,
>being the height of the shadowy, mysterious Doctor - whose elaborate plan
>completely fails to work at the end, requiring desperate improvisation.
>Little wonder the seventh Doctor of the NAs is my all-time favourite.
>
Rather a low point in the second NA arc,
which not only has nothing to do with the
other two books in the arc, but it also has
nothing to do with Dr Who. This book shows
us what went wrong with the McCoy years -
Cartmel's lousy ideas of what Dr Who *should*
be - for it sure isn't, and never was - and
luckily hasn't been much since.
For exactly the reasons you state...
>Transit
>
>This one is dense and complex and not very appealing the first time round.
Quite the opposite - this one drew me in right
away - I couldn't put it down. Such a shame
it fell apart at the end and turned to mush.
Still, it's one of the best NAs.
>
>The Left Handed Hummingbird
>
>A page-turning, gut-wrenching psychological thriller. I simply couldn't
>put this book down when I was reading it. Kate really gets a handle on the
>whole concept of Doctor Who in a startling way. Great stuff.
I guess our ideas about what Dr Who should
be greatly differ. You obviously like the
magical and the unexplained - to you, Dr Who
is fantasy and totally unconnected to the real
world.
>Warlock
>
>I didn't think Cartmel's second book could possibly live up to Warhead. I
>was wrong. This is a book so good it doesn't *need* the Doctor. Beautiful
>and heart-wrenching, you can't help but feel for it's main character
>(that's Chick, BTW and don't let anyone tell you different).
Oh god, I've said enough about Cartmel.
>The Also People
You really go for the crappy ones, don't you?
>Just War
Just... "ok".
>Warchild
Surprise...
>So Vile a Sin
>
Trying to cram too much into a story just detracts
from the enjoyment. It's the sign of a bad
writer who can't focus on one thing, and has
to throw in the kitchen sink to make things
interetsing.
Although it wasn't a bad book at all.
But I don't think it's very memorable either.
>Lungbarrow
>
>Astonishing.
I've said enough about how lousy this book is.
And it came as a shock to me, seeing as Marc
Platt's first NA is the best ever.
>System Shock
>
>The best MA. Tightly plotted, a great fourth Doctor and plenty of neat
>touches. I can't wait for the sequel.
>
I can...
>
>Killing Ground
>
>Really good stuff from Steve Lyons. This is the most sensible use of the
>Cybermen ever, and one of the few times where they represented a real
>threat. This is very well thought-out and quite poignant in its ideas
>about the series and the Doctor.
Well, it is good, but certainly not "the only
good Cyberman story". Besides Silver Nemesis
and Iceberg, there were no bad Cyberman
stories.
I guess the only time a Cyberman story is
bad is if it has the 7th Dr in it.
>The Plotters
>
>The Hartnell era to a T. Gareth Roberts writes his
>exactly-as-it-would-have-been story for the first Doctor and it works
>amazingly well. There's a great use of all the companions, an entertaining
>story and some wonderful jokes and situations.
Reminded me of some of the more more
boring historicals - Smugglers, Marco Polo...
Don't really know why, it just did.
>Catastrophea
>
>A fun little tale, well told. This goes the other way, but is no less good
>for being an almost exact representation of a Saturday evening tea time
>adventure from 1973. Rip-roaringly fast in its page-turning abilities,
>but no less good for being so, it shows that it's possible to churn out
>really good books just by writing Doctor Who the way it always was.
That's what I've been saying all along...
What a great place to leave it.
"All these worlds....
...Will make excellent sites for our garbage dumps."
¿ - Infinity Rising - ?
> Spoilt for me by the way the Doctor has no quarms about Ace running around
> with a gun and shooting Nazi's. Or the way Ace had no quarms about running
> around with a gun shooting Nazis.
Remember Ace in "The Happiness Patrol"? I think it fits.
>
> Don't read the Bernice NAs/
A man with intelligence! :-)
> Personally, my faves that you have missed are 'Cat's Cradle: Time's Crucible'
> (wonderfully complex, great plot, really spooky).
Marc Platt - incoherent. 'The Pit' (yes, i mean it) gave up on it,
> 'Lucifer Rising' (great space story, the closest we have to hard sci-fi.
> Absolutely cracking stuff).
This one is the best of the Virgin NAs.
> 'The Dimension Riders' (just great, another real
> plot one).
Never read it.
> Cold Fusion (wonderful, simply wonderful).
Hmmm...
> 'The Crystal Bucephalus'
> (another complex plot, i just love paradoxes and explorations of time etc).
Did you ever notice that this story is a 7th doc aventure, with the 5th doing 7th
things and Tegan swearing all over the place? As a 7th doc adventure it's barely
passable. As a 5th doc novel, that moron who wrote it (Craig Hinton) is
definitely on my "I'm no longer even going to look at his latest novel" books.
>
> The Witch Hunters (very good)
Missed it
> . Deep Blue (it just worked, i don't know why)
Looks interesting.
>
> Matrix (absolutely fabulous, wondeful use of Who's greatest villain).
Well, it's 50 pages too long. It's centered on Ace after the first 40% and
things get boring, something then happens nine chapters later, then gets boring
again until the Doctor arrives. But, as a whole, it's classic stuff. I had a
minor issue with the ending (I won't spoil it)... It just focused on Ace too much
when she really wasn't given enough to do.
> The
> Infinity Doctors (slightly slow, but great characterisation of the Doctor).
My copy is still in transit.
--
"SMAQFWB: Small Mammals Are Quite Flavorsome When Baked." (Doctor 6, "The
Androgum Inheritance" - the real title. No, "The Two Doctors" is a crap title and
should never have been considered.)
Eat up!
http://www.geocities.com/~timanov --> New and improved, with only 25 percent
recycled material!
¿ - Infinity Rising - ?
> It's very easy to complain about the things you don't like. It's a lot
> harder to discuss the things you do like. In an effort to do so, however,
> I recently had a look through my (quite impressive) bookshelves and tried
> to pick out those books I'd given a score of 10/10 to for the Rankings
> page.
Well, it ain't easy to talk about the things you like because when others like
them, what are they going to say?
>
> I'm usually fairly happy to award books high marks and there are an awful
> number of books with 9 or 9.5. But here is the cream of the cream. In, of
> course, my opinion.
>
> Timewyrm: Exodus
>
> Wonderful stuff, this. Terrance Dicks finally proves once and for all why
> he's so great. I reread this recently and it's a joy to behold.
I can't argue here, and I love to argue. Anything by Robert Holmes (yes, he's
dead but anything he did), Terrance Dicks, and Chris Boucher I'll pick up
without a second thought. It still may be mediocre or bad, but on general
these three guys know how to write. But Exodus is wonderfully written.
Terrance knows how to write for the 7th Doc.
>
> Timewyrm: Revelation
>
> Amazing. Simply amazing. The book that blew every expectation I ever had
> about Doctor Who right out of the water. Superb, tragic, beautiful and
> lovely.
Ditto. Paul Cornell is a NA writer whose books I will pick up without a
second thought. Most of his are excellent, too.
> Cat's Cradle: Warhead
>
> Powerful stuff. Cartmel writes beautifully and his Doctor is a great one,
> being the height of the shadowy, mysterious Doctor - whose elaborate plan
> completely fails to work at the end, requiring desperate improvisation.
> Little wonder the seventh Doctor of the NAs is my all-time favourite.
I'll be rational for once. It's powerful, but there's no way in hell it can
be related to Doctor Who. That character has the name, but nowhere near the
mannerisms of the Doctor. Having a bunch of characters with all of the
excessive detail, complete with the sex, is just plain lewd. It's not Doctor
Who, it's rubbish. And it's typical Cartmel.
> Transit
>
> This one is dense and complex and not very appealing the first time round.
> I reread it a few years ago and was completely amazed. The second time
> round, this seems like a completely different book. It's so complex and so
> dense that it took me at least two reads to even work out what it was
> about. But I'm really glad I did so.
Dense as 'lots of things going on' or dense as 'whoever wrote it had an IQ
rating of 40 who put in so much stuff it ended up convoluted but we'll call it
complex anyway"? It certainly didn't click for me...
>
> The Left Handed Hummingbird
>
> A page-turning, gut-wrenching psychological thriller. I simply couldn't
> put this book down when I was reading it. Kate really gets a handle on the
> whole concept of Doctor Who in a startling way. Great stuff.
That one was weird, but I've read far worse.
>
> Warlock
>
> I didn't think Cartmel's second book could possibly live up to Warhead. I
> was wrong. This is a book so good it doesn't *need* the Doctor. Beautiful
> and heart-wrenching, you can't help but feel for it's main character
> (that's Chick, BTW and don't let anyone tell you different).
Then go find Cartmel, tell him to leave Doctor Who alone, and write his own
independent rubbish! Why did JNT accept him in the first place?
> The Also People
>
> Not only is this fabulously written with a great new take on the seventh
> Doctor, the introduction of the People and some astonishingly wonderful
> scenes, it's also tremendously funny. The books have always struggled
> with humour and only Aaronovitch and Gareth Roberts seem to have gotten
> it just right.
Yo. How many takes for each Doc are we supposed to get? I don't recall
Doctors 1-6 suffering from multiple personality. That aside, I never read
this one (I own a 1st edition, want a second copy?)
>
> Just War
>
> This is deceptively simple. It's content to be nothing more than a truly
> excellent Doctor Who story. The treatment of Benny is a real turning point
> in her character and the simple power of the story manages to sustain it
> even across a slightly disappointing ending.
I own the book, never read it.
>
> Warchild
>
> This clicked with me far more than I was expecting. Grossly underrated,
> this book continues Cartmel's vision for Doctor Who: simply write good
> stories and everything will fall into place. It's also the most Doctorish
> of his three stories, which makes it a wonder that it isn't better liked.
Of course you'd like it. It was written by the Doctor's true nemesis, Andrew
Cartmel. It's well out of character for Cartmel to write anything Doctor Who
while writing the Doctor even remotely like the Doctor. It's underrated
because people were tired of his crap.
> So Vile a Sin
>
> Doctor Who does the epic. Taking the 'broad' in the New Adventures
> manifesto to new extremes, this book covers multiple dimensions, a dying
> Doctor, the collapse of the Earth Empire and the most beautiful death
> scene for a companion ever.
Never read it, but the title describes Cartmel's contribution to the scene.
>
> Lungbarrow
>
> Astonishing. Simply astonishing. Quite how the book that supposedly
> 'answers all the questions' ends up throwing up even more mystery about
> the series is beyond me, but I'm not complaining. Far from it. A fitting
> end to the seventh Doctor's era, with a gorgeous look at the life he left
> and glimpses into the past and future.
By this point, I stopped buying Virgin books. They were not Doctor Who, it's
as simple as that.
> <snipped those virgin books not based on the doctor, or cartmel's vision of
> the doctor>
>
> System Shock
>
> The best MA. Tightly plotted, a great fourth Doctor and plenty of neat
> touches. I can't wait for the sequel.
The cover turned me off. I remember a CD, and a lizard creature which came
straight out of "V"... let's hope they didn't touch the 4th Doc too much.
>
> Killing Ground
>
> Really good stuff from Steve Lyons. This is the most sensible use of the
> Cybermen ever, and one of the few times where they represented a real
> threat. This is very well thought-out and quite poignant in its ideas
> about the series and the Doctor.
Ah, another one I totally agree with you on. All but one of the 6th Doctor
MAs range from good to bloody perfect. KG was bloody perfect.
>
> The Plotters
>
> The Hartnell era to a T. Gareth Roberts writes his
> exactly-as-it-would-have-been story for the first Doctor and it works
> amazingly well. There's a great use of all the companions, an entertaining
> story and some wonderful jokes and situations.
I'll give it a look. And Gareth Roberts wrote it (he's another good NA
writer)...
>
> Alien Bodies
>
> Astonishing stuff. When so many others concentrate on the series' past,
> Lawrence Miles gives us a glimpse of the future, in more ways than one. In
> many ways a distillation of the important elements of the series, this is
> a wonderful story and a good use of the eighth Doctor. Mind-bogglingly
> good and throwing up way too many questions for its own good.
Haven't picked it up yet, but I might...
>
> Eye of Heaven
>
> The book that finally proved how good it was possible for Past Doctor
> stories to be. Not just in a way that paid homage to a dead TV series, but
> in a surprising and fresh way. The use of the unreliable first-person
> narrator, the non-linear thematic structure, the concentration on Leela,
> the vision of the fourth Doctor's POV and the sheer scope of this tale
> make it something truly special.
"The Daleks", Target novelization, did the same thing with first-person POV.
Yuck.
> Catastrophea
>
> A fun little tale, well told. This goes the other way, but is no less good
> for being an almost exact representation of a Saturday evening tea time
> adventure from 1973. Rip-roaringly fast in its page-turning abilities,
> but no less good for being so, it shows that it's possible to churn out
> really good books just by writing Doctor Who the way it always was.
I'll read the back cover. Any title which rhymes or reminds me of
"Catrovalva" makes me worry (I love "Castrovalva")
>
> Three from Kate Orman, three from Ben Aaronovitch, three from Cartmel, two
> from Terrance Dicks, two from Lance Parkin. 11 New Adventures, 3 missing
> Adventures, 2 Benny Adventures, 2 past Doctor Adventures and 1 eighth
> Doctor adventure. And hopefully many more to come in the future!
>
> - Robert Smith?
--
J2rider
left undone and its descriptions, its use of Mr. Syn--even more creepy here and
its almost non stop action. It did the first Romana well and even used K9
creatively. This was a good MISSING ADVENTURE. The first eight NEW ADVENTURES
kept me reading. They were pretty good. Benny never grew on me until she got
her own series and interacted with some of Matthew Jones' and Jones' type
charcters. Other NEW ADVENTURES: DAMAGED GOODS for its use of gay characters
and sheer horror in that horrible things happen; the gay character in BAD
THERAPY made a great companion--too bad he can't be a regular; Chris was a
great companion too. COLD FUSION was excellent.
Richard Molesworth
R.J. Smith <smit...@mcmail.cis.McMaster.CA> wrote in article
<7edkr2$q...@mcmail.cis.McMaster.CA>...
>
> It's very easy to complain about the things you don't like. It's a lot
> harder to discuss the things you do like. In an effort to do so, however,
> I recently had a look through my (quite impressive) bookshelves and tried
> to pick out those books I'd given a score of 10/10 to for the Rankings
> page.
> Timewyrm: Exodus
> Timewyrm: Revelation
> Cat's Cradle: Warhead
> Transit
> The Left Handed Hummingbird
> Warlock
> The Also People
> Just War
> Warchild
> So Vile a Sin
> Lungbarrow
> Walking to Babylon
> Beige Planet Mars
> System Shock
> Killing Ground
> The Plotters
> Alien Bodies
> Eye of Heaven
> Catastrophea
What an interesting choice. I've not gotten far with the BBC PDA's, and
gave up on the BBC EDA's after 'Alien Bodies' (although I did read
'Infinity Doctors' and found it massively dissapointing). In fact I'm
afraid I can't find many good things to say about the BBC range at all. I
did get through all of the Virgin NA's and MA's, and found that the MA's
were nearly universally unappealing - having very little to do with DW or
the era's they were meant to be featuring. The only Virgin MA I love is
'Goth Opera' - although it's use of the Davison era is very wide of the
mark - as it's so beautifully crafted and written.
As for the Virgin NA's - well there are ten books that (IMHO) come up
across as good or near perfect in a sea of dire dreadfulness. My top ten
(in reverse order - nach!)
10 Transit
It tried to be different. If failed most of the time, but when it did
succeed, it did so wonderfully.
9 Warhead
Cartmell shows that he never had a clue what DW was about. But he does
write a good story here. Shame it's not a DW one.
8 Exodus
Terrance effortlessly writes the first 'true' seventh Doctor story, putting
to shame those who'd written so much rubbish during seasons 24 - 26.
7 Nightshade
Solid plot, and scary too.
6 The Left Handed Hummingbird
Just superb. Shame it ran out of steam in the last 20 pages or so.
5 Return of the Living Dad
I can't work out why I like this so much. Everthing just feels so 'right'
about it.
4 Lucifer Rising
Extremely clever, and written on a very big scale. DW does sf, and does it
well.
3 Happy Endings
Paul Cornell writes the cleverest story possible, which sums up the best
bits of the NA's without getting too bogged down in the bad bits of the
NA's. Indulgent, but sweet.
2 No Future
Cornell again. Post-modern punk UNIT hippy happy trippy stuff. It
reassures and unsettles - sometimes in the same paragraph. Wow! It works.
1 Love and War
As close as anyone else as gone to matching Terrance at doing the seventh
Doctor, but in a story that evokes so much more than just what good DW
should be like. PC seems to know how the format works. 'Revelation'
seemed to me to be a book written by someone who wanted to write a book,
and got their chance - only to have to put 'Doctor Who' stuff in it to get
it published. Why is it that I generally love PC's DW books - but loathe
'Human Nature'?
Richard
(I feel slightly startled that I found the urge to ramble about this
subject)
Azaxyr
1.The Daleks - proves David Whitaker was in
fact the mastermind behind the beginning of
Dr Who. Unlike what we see on screen, this
story is actually interesting.
2. The Reign of Terror - Ian Marter is brilliant -
he makes it seem like you're there watching
the events unfold. Superbly written and a very
good story.
3.The Zarbi - Excellent story telling - it shows
what a masterpiece The Web Planet could
have been if it was produced properly.
4. The Myth Makers - One of the funniest
books ever, Dr Who or otherwise. You've got
to be devoid of a sense of humor if you don't
laugh yourself silly over this book.
5.The Massacre - John Lucarotti's best work.
This is such a simple story, yet so compelling -
it's like a modern-day tv drama - every day
events that somehow end up being very interesting.
6.Evil of the Daleks - The Daleks actually have
a plan other than the usual "exterminate". Very
intelligent plot, and very good writing.
7.Tomb of the Cybermen - Gerry Davis knew
how to write for his babies - an excellent story,
with the Cybermen both menacing and weak
at the same time. With lots of plot twists, you
never know who holds the highest card.
8.Fury From the Deep - best piece of writing of
any Dr Who book hands down. Victor Pemberton
came up with the perfect combination of sci-fi,
horror, and drama.
9.The Invasion - A Cyberman story without
the seventh Dr - so it already has something
going for it. Put it together with Ian Marter's
talent and a superb story line, and it's sheer
poetry.
10.The War Games - Unike the on-screen version,
this story is action packed and keeps your
attention from cover to cover - an excellent
example of getting to the point without missing
any important bits.
11.Auton Invasion - Terrance Dick's first and
probably best book - it's told with a magnificent
feel to it - a perfect example of a third Dr story.
12.The Cave Monsters - Malcolm Hulke never
missed - all his books are very enjoyable - just
detailed enough without getting overly bogged
down in characterization - yet all the characters
seem realistic and well developed.
13.Inferno - Not for Terrance's writing, but it's just
such a good story that even Cartmel couldn't
have buggered it up.
14.The Doomsday Weapon - Another Malcolm
hulke story - what's left to say? It's just so much
fun to read - deception, treachery, that wonderful
relationship between the Dr and the Master.
15.The Daemons - The classic modern-day tale
with the ordinary perfectly blended with the
extraordinary - it just flows so well.
16.The Ribos Operation - Another Ian Marter
classic - another simple story that is told in a
very clever way.
17.Black Orchid - Oddly enough, almost nothing
happens in this story - it's more like an Agatha
Christie murder mystery episode - but it's just
such an interesting read.
18.Terminus - Excellently written, this story
draws you in from page 1 - there is no irrelevent
drudgery - yet it's full of imagery and detail.
19.Frontios - The perfect Dr Who horror story,
Bidmead finally got it just right on this one.
20.Cat's Cradle:Time's Crucible - Very compelling -
you get lost if you blink, but it's well worth
reading to se the perfect example of how Time
Lord history should be revealed - nothing
mysterious about it at all - just pay attention, and
it's perfectly simple!
Daniel Gooley
>My 10/10 Dr Who books:
>
>1.The Daleks - proves David Whitaker was in
I'd add:
The Web of Fear
The Cybermen (Moonbase)
The Abominable Snowmen
The Ark in Space
Warrior's Gate
Dragonfire
Remembrance of the Daleks
The Curse of Fenric
Danny
William December Starr
donald...@diamond.co.uk said:
> 'Lucifer Rising' (great space story, the closest we have to hard
> sci-fi. Absolutely cracking stuff).
Odd... I'd've said that about "Transit," myself.
"Lucifer Rising" was okay, but (a) was too long, (b) overplayed the
"horrible mean corporation with no qualms about committing murder and
genocide just to pad the bottom line" card and (b') pulled the "the
government's folded so now the corporations can do whatever they want
because there's no law any more" rabbit out of the hat with massively
insufficient foreshadowing -- great sea changes in the geopolitical
landscape shouldn't happen without warning like that in fiction.
> 'The Dimension Riders' (just great, another real plot one).
I know there _was_ a plot there, but danged if I can remember what it
was. Was this the one with, among other things, the absolute stupidest
Yet Another Exiled Time Lord That We've Never Heard of Before that we've
ever seen?
-- William December Starr <wds...@crl.com>
Kafenken
> Timewyrm: Exodus
Great stuff, though it's a shame Terrance felt he had to introduce a
remote-control for the TARDIS. For all subsequent books, we readers must give
ourselves an amnesia attack regarding this useful gadget and pretend it never
existed in the first place. Just picking the first example to occur to me,
surely it makes great chunks of Jim Mortimore's Blood Heat look very silly
indeed...
> Timewyrm: Revelation
Haven't read it since it first came out, when I was twenty or so. Seeing how
my opinions and judgement have changed since then would be a fascinating
exercise in itself...
> Cat's Cradle: Warhead
I adore Warlock and admire Warchild, but this one left me rather cold. Too
many people I didn't care about, including Ace.
> Transit
I really must reread this.
> The Left Handed Hummingbird
This however I did try to reread recently, but couldn't get into it at all.
Gratuitously confusing and it didn't work on an emotional level for me at all.
Way too much like hard work.
> Warlock
Intelligent, articulate and containing some of the most powerful scenes we ever
saw in the NAs. A story that's actually about something, thank God.
> The Also People
Slow start, but lots of fun with some great gags.
> Just War
I admired this without feeling it quite worked. Essentially the NA Doctor is
far too powerful for a straight historical. Sanctuary managed to contain him,
but only by taking the TARDIS away and putting him in a situation where there's
almost nothing he can do to help the good guys. Just War's scenes with Benny
and/or Roz were stunning, but the presence of the Doctor just unbalanced the
whole thing for me. I couldn't believe he was ever really being challenged by
what was going on.
> Warchild
Feeds off Warlock a little too closely, but still damn good.
> So Vile a Sin
A big "so what". I ended up just flicking through the pages faster and
faster...
IMHO, Kate's best work by a long way has been for the BBC... though I haven't
read Walking to Babylon yet.
> Lungbarrow
Rich and wonderful, but I went into companion overload.
> Beige Planet Mars
Inconsequential amble-around with horrible plot holes. Amiable enough and it
has a lot that's good, but nothing for me to write home about.
> System Shock
For some reason this never drew me in. I'd loved his previous novel, Theatre
of War, and I probably came to this with the wrong expectations.
> Killing Ground
Grimly horrible, but at least it's deliberate. Grant Markham's
temporary-companion status lets Steve Lyons play evil games with the reader. A
strong book, but nothing in it even comes close to the power and brilliance of
the first twenty-odd pages of its prequel, Time of Your Life.
> The Plotters
Gag-fest!
> Alien Bodies
Sheer dazzling brilliance for its first nine-tenths, which only makes the
lacklustre ending even more of a letdown. But yes, it deserves a score of 10
even despite that. And thank goodness it wasn't a fanwank old-enemies fest,
which in the hands of certain authors it would have been.
> Eye of Heaven
I don't think I've understood anything Jim Mortimore's written for the BBC, but
the brilliance of his Leela chapters outweighs all that. The best portrayal of
a TV companion by such a long way that it's almost embarrassing; it doesn't
just break new ground, it drains the seas and builds its own continent.
> Catastrophea
It's hardly "high art", but the craftsmanship is just breathtaking. So slick
and effortless that hardly anyone seems to have realised just how accomplished
it really is. If it had been published by Virgin, we'd be scoring it up there
with Exodus and Blood Harvest. The Eight Doctors seems to have soured general
feeling against Terrance Dicks in a manner that's almost shocking, making them
denigrate his very considerable ability and sneer at faults they once readily
forgave. Personally I rate Catastrophea considerably above, say, Shakedown,
which contains shifts in tone so alarming as to be almost bathetic.
I suppose I should throw in my two-penn'orth. Some books I really rate that
haven't yet been mentioned include...
The Sorceror's Apprentice - Chris Bulis's masterpiece.
Venusian Lullaby - Something about the first TARDIS crew brings the best out of
authors. There's a subtlety and realism in their relationships, more so than
for almost all of their successors. I adore this book. Oh, and I nearly
included The Witch Hunters in this list too, but I find its slipshod
scene-setting too annoying to warrant a score of 10. Even the Target
novelisations could manage better than this...
Salvation - Intelligent, rich and startlingly new as a Doctor Who story.
Who Killed Kennedy - There's been a fair bit of discussion about this recently.
Suffice to say that for me it builds its atmosphere brilliantly and just keeps
building the tension - notch by unbearable notch...
Conundrum - More fun than any other Doctor Who book I've ever read.
Blood Heat - Epic and emotionally charged.
The Dimension Riders and Infinite Requiem - Oddities. They're confusing,
heavy-going, rather dull and so blazingly lacking in a sense of humour that one
starts to wonder if Daniel Blythe's had it surgically removed. But I love
them. This writer has so much class it's just not true. The only Doctor Who
books I keep with bookmarks in, to let me go back and admire a beautifully
written scene.
Human Nature - annoying comic-strip aliens, but they're not what the story's
really about...
Sanctuary - I'm just a silly old romantic underneath...
Sky Pirates! - Do I really need to explain?
Vampire Science - I read this and raved about it to everyone I met for
*months*...
The Scarlet Empress - revolutionary.
Finn Clark.
Mark Evans
> Philip Craggs wrote:
>> Spoilt for me by the way the Doctor has no quarms about Ace running around
>> with a gun and shooting Nazi's. Or the way Ace had no quarms about running
>> around with a gun shooting Nazis.
> Remember Ace in "The Happiness Patrol"? I think it fits.
But the first point still stands, why didn't The Doctor object to it.
Philip Craggs
ż - Infinity Rising - ? wrote:
> Philip Craggs wrote:
>
> > Spoilt for me by the way the Doctor has no quarms about Ace running around
> > with a gun and shooting Nazi's. Or the way Ace had no quarms about running
> > around with a gun shooting Nazis.
>
> Remember Ace in "The Happiness Patrol"? I think it fits.
>
>
I haven't got a clue what you are talking about and i watced 'The Happiness Patrol'
the other day.
> >
> > Don't read the Bernice NAs/
>
> A man with intelligence! :-)
>
>
Thankyou.
> > Personally, my faves that you have missed are 'Cat's Cradle: Time's Crucible'
> > (wonderfully complex, great plot, really spooky).
>
> Marc Platt - incoherent. 'The Pit' (yes, i mean it) gave up on it,
>
> > 'Lucifer Rising' (great space story, the closest we have to hard sci-fi.
> > Absolutely cracking stuff).
>
> This one is the best of the Virgin NAs.
>
> > 'The Dimension Riders' (just great, another real
> > plot one).
>
> Never read it.
>
> > Cold Fusion (wonderful, simply wonderful).
>
> Hmmm...
>
> > 'The Crystal Bucephalus'
> > (another complex plot, i just love paradoxes and explorations of time etc).
>
> Did you ever notice that this story is a 7th doc aventure, with the 5th doing 7th
> things and Tegan swearing all over the place? As a 7th doc adventure it's barely
> passable. As a 5th doc novel, that moron who wrote it (Craig Hinton) is
> definitely on my "I'm no longer even going to look at his latest novel" books.
>
A very different version was thought out as a seventh Doc novel, but this version was
always intended for this Doctor and is a fantastic read. And don't call Craig Hinton a
moron when he isn't here to defend himself. Anyone who can write a story as
complicated as 'TCB' and still have it make sence is a genius in my book. And it's a
shame you gave up on him because you missed the lovely GodEngine.
Philip Craggs
William December Starr wrote:
> In article <370A7709...@diamond.co.uk>,
> donald...@diamond.co.uk said:
>
> > 'Lucifer Rising' (great space story, the closest we have to hard
> > sci-fi. Absolutely cracking stuff).
>
> Odd... I'd've said that about "Transit," myself.
>
>
I forgot about that one. But i'd say 'LR' was the best because Transit
wasn't that good and was totally incoherent (especially when i first read
it, i mean, talk about no forshadowing, Benny starts acting evil and there
is no mention as to why until the end of the novel. She just falls over and
suddenly she's evil. Lost me totally).
> "Lucifer Rising" was okay, but (a) was too long, (b) overplayed the
> "horrible mean corporation with no qualms about committing murder and
> genocide just to pad the bottom line" card and (b') pulled the "the
> government's folded so now the corporations can do whatever they want
> because there's no law any more" rabbit out of the hat with massively
> insufficient foreshadowing -- great sea changes in the geopolitical
> landscape shouldn't happen without warning like that in fiction.
>
>
I thought that it was just a logical progession of what is happening now.
> > 'The Dimension Riders' (just great, another real plot one).
>
> I know there _was_ a plot there, but danged if I can remember what it
> was. Was this the one with, among other things, the absolute stupidest
> Yet Another Exiled Time Lord That We've Never Heard of Before that we've
> ever seen?
>
>
No.
> -- William December Starr <wds...@crl.com>
--
Chris Rednour
> R.J. Smith (smit...@mcmail.cis.McMaster.CA) wrote:
> : Warlock
>
> : I didn't think Cartmel's second book could possibly live up to Warhead. I
> : was wrong. This is a book so good it doesn't *need* the Doctor. Beautiful
> : and heart-wrenching, you can't help but feel for it's main character
> : (that's Chick, BTW and don't let anyone tell you different).
>
> Would you buy my copy from me? I think it's a waste of $5. This book is
> so far off the beaten track, it barely qualifies as 'Doctor Who'. BARELY.
> Far too long, and utterly boring, the two main characters aren't even
> the Doctor or his companions at all, but a police cop and a pregnant
> woman mentioned in a past NA. The Doc is absent through most of the
> story, Ace spends most of it in an out of body experience, and Benny
> has an extremely minor role to play. In the end, it is the new york
> cop who saves the day, not the Doctor or his companions. This is more
> of a sci-fi other genre crossover with cameo doctor appearances than
> a Doctor Who story. In short: I hate it. I gave it a 0 on Shannon's
> rating page.
I really liked it. Why should the Doctor be in every story? But then
I've said many times before I'd rather pick up a Doctor Who novel
that was good than was Doctor Who. [Ideally, of course, I'd get both].
Still, you thought it was too long and boring, and I can see that
complaint; I don't share that view, but I can certainly understand it!
Ultimately, I did enjoy it, and eventually the characters all weave
together. Ultimately, it *is* a good Doctor Who story, IMO. Its just told
from a different perspective, and I really don't have a problem with that.
It'd be like doing _Mind of Evil_ from the perspective of the one inmate
who gets his brain sucked, and who arguably saves the day as well...
-Chris Rednour
_________________________________________________________________
gs0...@panther.gsu.edu | cred...@gpc.peachnet.edu |||||||||||||
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Kafenken
> Hmm, how is TWH slipshod in the scene setting?
"Slipshod" is possibly putting it rather harshly, but I'd definitely say
sketchy. Slipping briefly into theatre parlance, the backdrops aren't fully
painted and the scenery isn't all set...
Finn Clark.
Chris Rednour
> Chris Rednour (gs0...@panther.Gsu.EDU) wrote:
> : I really liked it. Why should the Doctor be in every story? But then
>
> Because he's the title character. 'The New Adventures of Doctor Who'.
> Except the Doctor didn't have an adventure at all, not in this book.
> It's a matter of bad marketing. If Cartmel had published this as
> a 'New Adventure' (sans of DW, after they lost their license), or
> had published it by itself without any tie-ins to Doctor Who, it
> would've been great. But when I see 'Doctor Who' in the title, I
> expect a Doctor Who story. That's why I bought it.
Oh, yeah, well there is *that*... :)
Seriously, while I have similar expectations [honest!] I don't think a
deviation is really bad [Mission to the Unknown, anyone?]
> : I've said many times before I'd rather pick up a Doctor Who novel
> : that was good than was Doctor Who. [Ideally, of course, I'd get both].
>
> I don't think this is even a Doctor Who Novel. It's a 'new' NA novel
> (after license lost), or possibly a independant novel by Cartmel.
> You could remove the Doc from the story altogether, and publish
> it without the BBC raising an eyebrow at all about copyright
> problems.
Probably, but, I dunno, it just worked for me. To compare to another
series fiction title, there is a Doc Savage book told entirely from the
perspective of someone who only has a tangental relationship with the
main story for the most part. Doc is hardly in it, and his aides only
slightly moreso. And its a pretty novel story.
I can't help but see this as similar.
> : It'd be like doing _Mind of Evil_ from the perspective of the one inmate
> : who gets his brain sucked, and who arguably saves the day as well...
>
> This is not necessarily a good thing.
But I don't think its necessarily a bad thing. You don't like the book,
and I can understand that, I'm just saying that the devation of telling
the story from a radically different perspective can [IMO] be a good
thing.
Dokter Ooh
Would love to see a purely historical story starring the 8th Doctor. Maybe
located during the Mexican war for Independece. Just a thought. (Paul McGann in
"Fist Full of Dollars")
"Remember me to Gallifrey"
William December Starr
donald...@diamond.co.uk said:
> I forgot about that one. But i'd say 'LR' was the best because
> Transit wasn't that good and was totally incoherent (especially when
> i first read it, i mean, talk about no forshadowing, Benny starts
> acting evil and there is no mention as to why until the end of the
> novel. She just falls over and suddenly she's evil. Lost me totally).
And since when has "There's something mysterious and inexplicable going
on near the beginning of the story that isn't explained until near the
end of the story" been out of place in Doctor Who fiction? :-)
(Besides, the reason for it was revealed around a third of the way
into the book, as I recall. Remember the bit where the Doctor asks
Benny why she's trying to kill him and she says something like
"Because I've been taken over by a fucking alien intelligence! Why
did you think?")
[ *snip* ]
[Re: "Lucifer Rising":]
> I thought that it was just a logical progession of what is happening
> now.
Which "it" -- utterly ruthless corporations or the collapse of
governmental rule of law? The former may very well be a logical
progression from today's events, but (1) where sentient beings are
involved, the universe doesn't always progress linearly or logically
:-) and (2) either way it is, in my opinion, a somewhat banal
storytelling cliche -- it's very much like having the characterization
of one's villain begin and end with "Because I'm evil, that's why."
It left the dull taste of cardboard in my mouth.
As for the latter, the collapse of the rule of law, I still maintain
that something like that should be foreshadowed, else it have the same
"Where the hell did _that_ come from?" problems as a deus ex machina
maneuver.
>>> 'The Dimension Riders' (just great, another real plot one).
>>
>> I know there _was_ a plot there, but danged if I can remember what
>> it was. Was this the one with, among other things, the absolute
>> stupidest Yet Another Exiled Time Lord That We've Never Heard of
>> Before that we've ever seen? [wdstarr]
>
> No.
Oh. In that case, I _really_ didn't find TDR's plot memorable...
Philip Craggs
William December Starr wrote:
> In article <370BCAA7...@diamond.co.uk>,
> donald...@diamond.co.uk said:
>
> > I forgot about that one. But i'd say 'LR' was the best because
> > Transit wasn't that good and was totally incoherent (especially when
> > i first read it, i mean, talk about no forshadowing, Benny starts
> > acting evil and there is no mention as to why until the end of the
> > novel. She just falls over and suddenly she's evil. Lost me totally).
>
> And since when has "There's something mysterious and inexplicable going
> on near the beginning of the story that isn't explained until near the
> end of the story" been out of place in Doctor Who fiction? :-)
>
> (Besides, the reason for it was revealed around a third of the way
> into the book, as I recall. Remember the bit where the Doctor asks
> Benny why she's trying to kill him and she says something like
> "Because I've been taken over by a fucking alien intelligence! Why
> did you think?")
>
>
Yeah, but there isn't even a HINT of what was going on until that point. No
scene where Bernice feels 'different' for a moment or anything. I just got
totally lost.
> [ *snip* ]
>
> [Re: "Lucifer Rising":]
>
> > I thought that it was just a logical progession of what is happening
> > now.
>
> Which "it" -- utterly ruthless corporations or the collapse of
> governmental rule of law? The former may very well be a logical
> progression from today's events, but (1) where sentient beings are
> involved, the universe doesn't always progress linearly or logically
> :-) and (2) either way it is, in my opinion, a somewhat banal
> storytelling cliche -- it's very much like having the characterization
> of one's villain begin and end with "Because I'm evil, that's why."
> It left the dull taste of cardboard in my mouth.
>
>
Ah, so you have read Shakespeare's 'Much Ado About Nothing' then? 'I'm a
plain dealing villain' for fucks sake!
> As for the latter, the collapse of the rule of law, I still maintain
> that something like that should be foreshadowed, else it have the same
> "Where the hell did _that_ come from?" problems as a deus ex machina
> maneuver.
>
Try 'Colony in Space'.
> >>> 'The Dimension Riders' (just great, another real plot one).
> >>
> >> I know there _was_ a plot there, but danged if I can remember what
> >> it was. Was this the one with, among other things, the absolute
> >> stupidest Yet Another Exiled Time Lord That We've Never Heard of
> >> Before that we've ever seen? [wdstarr]
> >
> > No.
>
> Oh. In that case, I _really_ didn't find TDR's plot memorable...
>
>
It's got an old monster from Gallifrey's past in it, but not a rouge Time
Lord. It's extremely difficult to summarise the plot but i would recommentd
a second reading if you have the time.
> -- William December Starr <wds...@crl.com>
I'm just surprised no one picked up on my disliking 'The Left-Handed
Hummingbird'. I thought that considering the inexplicable (for me) praise
it gets around here i thought i'd be ex-communicated from fandom by now!
Azaxyr
>Yeah, but there isn't even a HINT of what was going on until that point. No
>scene where Bernice feels 'different' for a moment or anything. I just got
>totally lost.
I'll have to disagree. Although I don't know
any of the specifics off hand, I'm quite certain
that the plot was made fairly clear early on,
and you could even guess the ending if you
paid enough attention to all the minute details.
Of course it didn't stop the ending from being
really crappy.
The same things could be said about Time's
Crucible. It's a very conceptual story, but
I don't see where everyone's getting confused -
all you have to do is pay attention - which isn't
difficult, since the plot moves along at a very
good pace and doesn't get bogged down,
unlike dozens of other NAs which make perfect
sense to a four year old, but are dull as hell,
and in some of them I found myself just
scaning over page after page, looking for something
that might be interesting, where I can start
actually reading again. (Ahem...Cartmel...Ahem...)
R.J. Smith
>: I didn't think Cartmel's second book could possibly live up to Warhead. I
>: was wrong. This is a book so good it doesn't *need* the Doctor. Beautiful
>: and heart-wrenching, you can't help but feel for it's main character
>: (that's Chick, BTW and don't let anyone tell you different).
>Would you buy my copy from me? I think it's a waste of $5. This book is
>so far off the beaten track, it barely qualifies as 'Doctor Who'. BARELY.
>Far too long, and utterly boring, the two main characters aren't even
>the Doctor or his companions at all, but a police cop and a pregnant
>woman mentioned in a past NA. The Doc is absent through most of the
>story, Ace spends most of it in an out of body experience,
The companion has been possessed many, many times before in DW.
and Benny
>has an extremely minor role to play.
Which was only fitting, given that this followed Just War. Chris and Roz
have good parts in the story and we even get a new (or rather old)
companion thrown in for free,
In the end, it is the new york
>cop who saves the day, not the Doctor or his companions. This is more
>of a sci-fi other genre crossover with cameo doctor appearances than
>a Doctor Who story. In short: I hate it. I gave it a 0 on Shannon's
>rating page.
Well, so much for my thread of pleasantness... :-)
>Most of your 'top ten list' are books I haven't read due to unavailiblity.
>A pity. However, in addition to 'alien bodies', here are my favorites and
>why:
>Dreams of an Empire - Richards
>A fast-paced sci-fi adventure featuring the Second Doctor, this book
>is laced with plots and counterplots, insane villians and hair-raising
>plot twists. Again, some unforgettable characters (Prion and Helen,
>as well as the man in the iron mask himself), this book has a particularly
>brilliant characterisation of the second doctor.
Totally agree. Good stuff. I slogged a little through the opening chapter,
but it was great thereafter... and once some of the later revelations came
into play, I went back and reread the opening chapter once more and saw
all the gems I had missed.
>Seeing I - Orman and Blum
>This story has two great subplots, in addition to the main abused alien
>technology plot. The first one is Sam's growing up story, which gives
>Sam some stability for her to grow up and mature. It was touching enough
>to warm even my sam-hating heart. The second subplot is the Doctor struggling
>with a prison he cannot escape, and the emotional consequences of being
>denied his freedom for (potentially) all eternity. In some ways I think
>the subplots are more interesting than the main plot! I'll never forget
>this book as it made me see both Sam and the Doctor in a different light.
These things were the main plot. The alien technology thing was just a
framing device. This book was always about the characters, not plot (and
is very good, too!)
>Illegal Alien - Tucker & Perry
>I've said it before, and I'll say it again, this book is one of the
>scariest Doctor Who books I've read. I found myself unable to put the
>book down as the horror mounted and grew, until I found myself digging
>the old night-light out of the closet to ward off the Things That Go
>Bump in the Night. Of all the cybermen stories and plots, this one
>is possibly the best in describing the Cybermen's invasion means and
>ways, and puts the fear back in the Silver Men. There are no cheap
>and dirty ways for getting rid of the silver menace: no gold credit
>cards, radiation rooms, or guns made with nail-polish remover. Only
>the seventh doctor's ingenuity can save the world. I'll make a point
>of rereading this one around Halloween. :)
Yikes!
This was awful, tedious stuff. I'm astonished that anyone found anything
redeeming in it at all, let alone actually liked it.
Something about Tucker and Perry's writing just puts me off. Some nice
descriptions of the era, but that was about it. Urgh.
- Robert Smith?
R.J. Smith
Philip Craggs <donald...@diamond.co.uk> wrote:
>R.J. Smith wrote:
>> Timewyrm: Exodus
>> Wonderful stuff, this. Terrance Dicks finally proves once and for all why
>> he's so great. I reread this recently and it's a joy to behold.
>Spoilt for me by the way the Doctor has no quarms about Ace running around
>with a gun and shooting Nazi's. Or the way Ace had no quarms about running
>around with a gun shooting Nazis.
I'm not sure I recall that, actually. When did she run around with a gun
shooting Nazis?
BTW, what are "quarms"?
>> Timewyrm: Revelation
>> Amazing. Simply amazing. The book that blew every expectation I ever had
>> about Doctor Who right out of the water. Superb, tragic, beautiful and
>> lovely.
>I agree 100%.
Oh my God! Philip and I have the same opinion on something! The universe
is about to explode! :-)
>> The Left Handed Hummingbird
>> A page-turning, gut-wrenching psychological thriller. I simply couldn't
>> put this book down when I was reading it. Kate really gets a handle on the
>> whole concept of Doctor Who in a startling way. Great stuff.
>My least favourite Kate Orman novel, i found unbelievably boring. I just had a
>real struggle reading it, i had to make myself turn the page. I simply didn't
>care about any of the characters or the situations. A total failure for me, 5
>out of 10.
Okay, that's the universe restored then.
How anyone can call any Orman novel, let along this one, "boring" is
completely beyond my understanding.
>Fairly good, but i quibble with saying Gareth Roberts got the level of humour
>right. I think he went way OTT and made 'The Romance of Crime' terrible and
>'The English Way of Death' simply unreadable.
Well, since you hated the Season 17 humour as well, he's obviously got it
spot on!
>Don't read the Bernice NAs/
You're missing some good stuff, you know.
>> Alien Bodies
>> Astonishing stuff. When so many others concentrate on the series' past,
>> Lawrence Miles gives us a glimpse of the future, in more ways than one. In
>> many ways a distillation of the important elements of the series, this is
>> a wonderful story and a good use of the eighth Doctor. Mind-bogglingly
>> good and throwing up way too many questions for its own good.
>Average, but reads like a big fan-wank on the part of Mr Miles. Like he wanted
>the series to be called 'Doctor Who, based on the novels of Lawrence Miles'. I
>didn't really like what he said in it. GAve far too much away. But hay, i
>loved Lungbarrow so...
Yes, but it's *meant* to read like that. That's why there are a billion
continuity references... all to things that we've never actually seen
before! Very amusing, IMO.
- Robert Smith?
R.J. Smith
>> Don't read the Bernice NAs/
>A man with intelligence! :-)
Sorry, but I don't understand this comment.
I can understand not reading them because of lack of time/money/interest
(especially on the grounds that they aren't DW), but how does it actually
show intelligence not to read intelligent, thoughtful, entertaining and
complex books like the Bernice NAs?
- Robert Smith?
Podmix
dilemma-in-travelling-through-time-and-not-interfering with a lovely twist
that's even more catastrophic for our heroes. That it's Susan(who really
should know better) who creates the conflict is even more emotive for me. I
think the fear and sense of out-of-control that surrounds the novel is
well-executed. IMHO:-)
Podmix
The future is a strange place
Dastari
first one on my list will ever be 10/10.
The Sorcerer's Apprentice
This shows why Christopher Bulis is the best MA writer. For some reason he
can't write a good modern Doctor Who story to save his life, but his MAs really
shine. There's some wonderful stuff about the relationship of science to magic
and how thought affects reality. This is a great story and combined with the
TVM it got me back into Who after a three year hiatus. I've never seen another
author do so well in writing a story that seems to have been written in the era
that its set. The characterisation of the main cast is spot on. Beautiful
stuff.
The Dark Path
Anything with Delgado's Master should instantly get a 9/10 before reading. DM
paints a wonderful picture of a good man who is forced by circumstance to do
evil. The stuff with the Federation and the Empire was great contintuity candy
and DM gives a really frightening threat. Its only failure is that finaly
revelation that wasn't DM's idea anyway.
The Scales of Injustice
Well its got the Silurians doesn't it? Also, we get an actual reason for Liz
leaving (I just read the Devil Goblins retcons this ARGH!). UNIT has never been
done this well outside of the TV series. Truly this is Gary Russell's Virgin
masterpiece.
A Device of Death
Another wonderful Bulis work. You don't think that there could possibly be a
gap between Genesis of the Daleks and Revenge of the Cybermen, but it works so
well once you've read the story. Harry Sullivan is used brilliantly. Another
great story.
Shadows of Weng-Chiang
DM once more proves his strength in Doctor Who writing. He gets extra kudos for
doing a Romana I story. Wonderful stuff with the flavor of the Shadow. Once
more, its an interesting gap, but isn't unworkable. The only drawback appears
to be DM's rather odd take on time travel which he doesn't appear to want to
share with us.
The Sands of Time
The only fifth Doctor story that gets the character totally right. This Doctor
has the energy of Peter Davison while also stressing his wonder and occasional
irrascibility. After all, its impossible to make a sequal to Pyramids of Mars
bad.
Millenial Rites
A great bridge between the MAs and NAs. The struggle between the Doctor and the
Valeyard is delivered with remarkable poignancy. After all, the Valeyard isn't
external now, he is part of the Doctor. Also, the Time's Champion business gets
its start as the Doctor learns of what must be done for the universe to be
saved.
Timewyrm:Exodus
War has never looked so frightening and never have we seen a future (or past
depending on your point of view) that is so bleak. Dicks does a good job of
showing that the Nazis weren't all like their stereotypes. Great to see the War
Gamers again though.
Timewyrm:Revelation
I bet that no one thought that contintuity could be worked together this well.
The Doctor's entire life up to this point are worked together here and Paul
Cornell shows why he deserves the title of NA god. Ace is better characterized
than ever before and it was great to get inside the Doctor's head for once.
Cat's Cradle:Time's Crucible
A weird set of events that could only happen inside the TARDIS. Time twisted
into itself is a strange concept, but it is handeled well here. Gallifreyan
history is revealed in a good way with questions answered but more remaining.
Altogether a good story.
Love and War
Paul does it again. The Doctor's manipulations have gone to far and Ace has to
leave. Of course, this story is limited by the fact that the Doctor is still
suffering from the disease picked up in Witch Mark, but Paul makes it work
despite it all.
Blood Heat
Yea! Another parallel universe. This story has the most stunning version of the
Brigadier that I have yet seen. This is a Brgadier that has been through the
worst terrors imaginable, but he is still so like the Brigadier that we know
and love. The fact that he and the Silurian are both working to "do it for the
children" is really touching and compelling. Its to bad the the dues ex machina
ending dropped it to 9/10 though. Its also funny that despite the fact that
they lost the TARDIS, all the companions have their possesions back by the next
story. Even The Ancient and Worshipful Law of Gallifrey is in this TARDIS by
the next story (not Mortimore's fault but why people why?)
Conundrum
Is Doctor Who allowed to be this funny. I laughed through every minute of this
story and sometimes after. Good job Steve.
No Future
So it was the Meddling Monk all along. The revelation is brought with all the
terror that it should with a 29 year build up to this big event. Mortimus has
covered all the angles and by all rights the Doctor should lose. This book
shows why he doesn't even when the chips are down.
Legacy
The conclusion to the Peladon trilogy. Martian culture and the characters
within in it are flushed out as never before. It was also nice to see Peladon
again after such a long hiatus.
First Frontier
Ever since the Deadly Assasin, the Master has been a joke. He is simply a
roting corpse hanging on to the vague semblence of life. McIntee realises this
and gives him a second chance. The terrifying thought at the end of this story
is "The Master has more lives than the Doctor!" To bad that the TVM ruined
that.
Set Piece
Great stuff and a touching leave taking for Ace. Her decision to leave is so
fitting for her character. She wants to do good like the Doctor, but she thinks
to small scale.
Human Nature
The beginning of a grand storline that ends with the TVM. The Doctor wants to
know what he is defending. He finds out, but the cost is more than he bargained
for.
Original Sin
Andy Lane shows us the most realistic view of the future yet. The degeneration
of the Adjudication Guild into the Church of Adjudication is interesting and
Chris and Roz are given fine rolls. Of course the fact that (spoiler deleted)
shows up is such a delightful and well thought out surprise that it makes up
for any other problems.
Head Games
The Doctor/Valeyard thing once more comes to a head. Steve Lyons once more
writes an amusing tale, but this one has serious undercurrents. The weaving
together of so much contintuity was a masterpiece and Mel was used extremely
well throughout the story.
(This is as far as I've read in the NAs)
"Stick a fork in me. I'm done."-The Amazing Spider-Man
Helen Fayle
Dokter Ooh <dokt...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19990407232536...@ng-ft1.aol.com>...
Perfect Timing 2: One of the editors plans to be scribbling away to produce
an 8th Doctor story featuring Sir Richard Francis Burton...
J2rider
What if he used them up between the novel and the TV MOVIE?
J2rider
Who in the mix, you have a slight problem that most of your readers aren't
really that interested in the minute details of the political situation of
1066. Or that the red color in fabric was made from crushed beetles. Or
that indigo came from the new world and wasn't availble pre 1600's and
therefore blue was an expensive color. Most of them are saying 'yeah,
get on to the next fight!' Not, wow, I didn't know that the danish
stuffed their dead in bogs!
YOU ARE RIGHT BUT I LIKE THE HISTORICAL DETAILS IN THERE LIKE YOU DO. I WISH
THERE WOULD BE MORE OF THAT SINCE IT WOULD MAKE THE PAST A MORE ALIEN PLACE
THAN THE ALIEN PLANETS EVERYONE ALWAYS WANTS. I WISH THE HISTORICALS CAN BE
MORE ACCURATE IN THAT ASPECT, OTHERWISE WHY DO THEM? Thanks for your comments.
I loved them.
J2rider
Perfect Timing wasn't perfect timing for the mail. I should have told them I
would pay for air mail. I doubt my cpies will get here. Bottom of the atlantic
maybe?
J2rider
Eng6gcgs
>>Philip Craggs wrote:
>
>>> Don't read the Bernice NAs/
>
>>A man with intelligence! :-)
>
>Sorry, but I don't understand this comment.
>
>I can understand not reading them because of lack of time/money/interest
>(especially on the grounds that they aren't DW),
/Obligatory partisan sarcasm mode/
They aren't DW? You could have fooled me. Damn, so that means that there are no
new DW books being published now. 'Tis a pity.
/off/
Eng6gcgs
>Timewyrm:Exodus
>
>War has never looked so frightening
?!?!
>and never have we seen a future (or past depending on your point of view)
>that is so bleak.
?!?!
>Dicks does a good job of showing that the Nazis weren't all like their
>stereotypes.
?!?!
>Great to see the War Gamers again though.
Ah, this is true.
Now if, in the top three points, you mean "in DW" then it's a subjective point
but I don't think it's one with much basis on your side. War has looked just as
frightening in DW, we've seen futures just as bleak, and the stereotypes run so
thick in this book it becomes a point unto itself - that's not to say it's a
terrible book, it's a good, solid story, entertaining enough and an about
average NA IMO. However, if your comments were meant at face value (ie, applied
in general, rather than specifically to DW as I am assuming they should be),
then I'd love to know what you were on when you read this book.
Helen
J2rider wrote in message <19990409133603...@ng-fs1.aol.com>...
Well if not en route, out very soonish. But I've just had a slight hold up
due to being surrounded by $@@&%$$Ł@@ incompetants at this end...
(Don't ask. Just three suppliers have now gone onto my shit list.) GRRRRRR.
Philip Craggs
R.J. Smith wrote:
> In article <370A7709...@diamond.co.uk>,
> Philip Craggs <donald...@diamond.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >R.J. Smith wrote:
>
> >> Timewyrm: Exodus
>
> >> Wonderful stuff, this. Terrance Dicks finally proves once and for all why
> >> he's so great. I reread this recently and it's a joy to behold.
>
> >Spoilt for me by the way the Doctor has no quarms about Ace running around
> >with a gun and shooting Nazi's. Or the way Ace had no quarms about running
> >around with a gun shooting Nazis.
>
> I'm not sure I recall that, actually. When did she run around with a gun
> shooting Nazis?
>
> BTW, what are "quarms"?
>
>
Just after the Doctor rescues Ace from being sacrificed (far too easily as well)
they escape through the castle, Ace gets a gun and start shooting nazis without any
quarms (objections).
> >> Timewyrm: Revelation
>
> >> Amazing. Simply amazing. The book that blew every expectation I ever had
> >> about Doctor Who right out of the water. Superb, tragic, beautiful and
> >> lovely.
>
> >I agree 100%.
>
> Oh my God! Philip and I have the same opinion on something! The universe
> is about to explode! :-)
>
>
Run everyone, it's Event Two!
> >> The Left Handed Hummingbird
>
> >> A page-turning, gut-wrenching psychological thriller. I simply couldn't
> >> put this book down when I was reading it. Kate really gets a handle on the
> >> whole concept of Doctor Who in a startling way. Great stuff.
>
> >My least favourite Kate Orman novel, i found unbelievably boring. I just had a
> >real struggle reading it, i had to make myself turn the page. I simply didn't
> >care about any of the characters or the situations. A total failure for me, 5
> >out of 10.
>
> Okay, that's the universe restored then.
>
> How anyone can call any Orman novel, let along this one, "boring" is
> completely beyond my understanding.
>
>
I like every Kate Orman novel, from being good to a couple that are absolutely
excellent, excepot this one which bored the pants off me (not a pretty sight).
> >Fairly good, but i quibble with saying Gareth Roberts got the level of humour
> >right. I think he went way OTT and made 'The Romance of Crime' terrible and
> >'The English Way of Death' simply unreadable.
>
> Well, since you hated the Season 17 humour as well, he's obviously got it
> spot on!
>
>
True.
> >Don't read the Bernice NAs/
>
> You're missing some good stuff, you know.
>
>
I just don't think that Bernice is a strong enough character to carry a series. i
always thought she was an over-rated companion. She was good, but so many people go
on about 'connecting' and seeing her as very real, but i don't connect with her at
all.
> >> Alien Bodies
>
> >> Astonishing stuff. When so many others concentrate on the series' past,
> >> Lawrence Miles gives us a glimpse of the future, in more ways than one. In
> >> many ways a distillation of the important elements of the series, this is
> >> a wonderful story and a good use of the eighth Doctor. Mind-bogglingly
> >> good and throwing up way too many questions for its own good.
>
> >Average, but reads like a big fan-wank on the part of Mr Miles. Like he wanted
> >the series to be called 'Doctor Who, based on the novels of Lawrence Miles'. I
> >didn't really like what he said in it. GAve far too much away. But hay, i
> >loved Lungbarrow so...
>
> Yes, but it's *meant* to read like that.
And that's good?
> That's why there are a billion
> continuity references... all to things that we've never actually seen
> before! Very amusing, IMO.
>
Oh it's quite funny, and it's not a bad book, it just annoys me in some places, and
the constant praise of it gets on my nerves and makes my dislike more extreme.
> - Robert Smith?
Philip Craggs
J2rider wrote:
> Hey the TV MOVIE didn't ruin that thing about the Master having more lives.
> What if he used them up between the novel and the TV MOVIE?
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
R.J. Smith
>> It's very easy to complain about the things you don't like. It's a lot
>> harder to discuss the things you do like. In an effort to do so, however,
>> I recently had a look through my (quite impressive) bookshelves and tried
>> to pick out those books I'd given a score of 10/10 to for the Rankings
>> page.
>Well, it ain't easy to talk about the things you like because when others like
>them, what are they going to say?
You could apply that argument just as easily to people not liking things,
but two people who both hate something manage to have a conversation about
it.
>> Cat's Cradle: Warhead
>> Powerful stuff. Cartmel writes beautifully and his Doctor is a great one,
>> being the height of the shadowy, mysterious Doctor - whose elaborate plan
>> completely fails to work at the end, requiring desperate improvisation.
>> Little wonder the seventh Doctor of the NAs is my all-time favourite.
>I'll be rational for once. It's powerful, but there's no way in hell it can
>be related to Doctor Who. That character has the name, but nowhere near the
>mannerisms of the Doctor. Having a bunch of characters with all of the
>excessive detail, complete with the sex, is just plain lewd. It's not Doctor
>Who, it's rubbish. And it's typical Cartmel.
Nah, it definitely *is* Doctor Who... only it's DW in a slightly (and
only slightly) altered way. Even the reviewers missed this, claiming
things like "the Doctor travels in more mysterious and magical ways" when
it's patently clear that the Doctor is using the TARDIS... it's just that
the word TARDIS isn't used. We get a description instead (such as his
first foray into the Butler institute) where it *does* seem magical -
because that's what the TARDIS is and always has been, we've just
forgotten. Cartmel merely reminds us (well me, at any rate) that Doctor
Who is allowed to be good again.
There's also the complaints about the grand masterplanning the Doctor
does... completely missing the point that the plan _doesn't_actually_work.
The Doctor has to rely on his wits and improvise at the end. Sounds a lot
like DW to me!
>> Transit
>> This one is dense and complex and not very appealing the first time round.
>> I reread it a few years ago and was completely amazed. The second time
>> round, this seems like a completely different book. It's so complex and so
>> dense that it took me at least two reads to even work out what it was
>> about. But I'm really glad I did so.
>Dense as 'lots of things going on' or dense as 'whoever wrote it had an IQ
>rating of 40 who put in so much stuff it ended up convoluted but we'll call it
>complex anyway"? It certainly didn't click for me...
I doubt anyone has ever gotten away with claiming that Ben Aaronovitch has
an IQ of 40! :-)
>> The Left Handed Hummingbird
>> A page-turning, gut-wrenching psychological thriller. I simply couldn't
>> put this book down when I was reading it. Kate really gets a handle on the
>> whole concept of Doctor Who in a startling way. Great stuff.
>That one was weird, but I've read far worse.
A pull-quote for the cover of the next edition, Kate!
>> Warlock
>> I didn't think Cartmel's second book could possibly live up to Warhead. I
>> was wrong. This is a book so good it doesn't *need* the Doctor. Beautiful
>> and heart-wrenching, you can't help but feel for it's main character
>> (that's Chick, BTW and don't let anyone tell you different).
>Then go find Cartmel, tell him to leave Doctor Who alone, and write his own
>independent rubbish! Why did JNT accept him in the first place?
Because he knows that DW is first and foremost about telling good stories
and secondly about having the characters refer back to the correct
episodes from continuity.
>> The Also People
>> Not only is this fabulously written with a great new take on the seventh
>> Doctor, the introduction of the People and some astonishingly wonderful
>> scenes, it's also tremendously funny. The books have always struggled
>> with humour and only Aaronovitch and Gareth Roberts seem to have gotten
>> it just right.
>Yo. How many takes for each Doc are we supposed to get? I don't recall
>Doctors 1-6 suffering from multiple personality. That aside, I never read
>this one (I own a 1st edition, want a second copy?)
Ah, but they did. Compare the fourth Doctor from Robot, Pyramids of Mars,
Horns of Nimon and Logopolis and you'll find four very different
characters.
>> Just War
>>
>> This is deceptively simple. It's content to be nothing more than a truly
>> excellent Doctor Who story. The treatment of Benny is a real turning point
>> in her character and the simple power of the story manages to sustain it
>> even across a slightly disappointing ending.
>I own the book, never read it.
Sacrilige! Do so at once.
[rest of post deleted because I buggered something up. Back in a mo']
- Robert Smith?
Jonathan Blum
Mark Evans <ma...@anacon.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>ż - Infinity Rising - ? <tim...@www.geocities.com> wrote:
>> Philip Craggs wrote:
>>> Spoilt for me by the way the Doctor has no quarms about Ace running around
>>> with a gun and shooting Nazi's. Or the way Ace had no quarms about running
>>> around with a gun shooting Nazis.
>> Remember Ace in "The Happiness Patrol"? I think it fits.
>But the first point still stands, why didn't The Doctor object to it.
About four pages later, when Ace asks the Doctor why he's not objecting to
the Nazis killing each other, he quotes her "Just getting a bit of my own
back" comment back to her. He also muses about how the brutal atmosphere
appears to be affecting the two of them as well. I don't think he
really had no objection -- he just wanted to get out of there first. :-)
And Paul mentioned Ace having nightmares about shooting that Nazi in "Love
And War", IIRC.
Regards,
Jon Blum
Jonathan Blum
=?iso-8859-1?Q?=BF?= - Infinity Rising - ? <tim...@www.geocities.com> wrote:
[about four more complaints that Andrew Cartmel is evil, evil from the
dawn of time snipped]
Y'know, the more bashes you take at this guy, the more you remind me that
I really should ring up Andrew to get his advice on the seventh Doctor
proposal I'm working on. Thanks. :-)
Regards,
Jon Blum
Philip Craggs
Philip Craggs wrote:
R.J. Smith wrote:
> In article <370A7709...@diamond.co.uk>,
> Philip Craggs <donald...@diamond.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >R.J. Smith wrote:
>
> >> Timewyrm: Exodus
>
> >> Wonderful stuff, this. Terrance Dicks finally proves once and for all why
> >> he's so great. I reread this recently and it's a joy to behold.
>
> >Spoilt for me by the way the Doctor has no quarms about Ace running around
> >with a gun and shooting Nazi's. Or the way Ace had no quarms about running
> >around with a gun shooting Nazis.
>
> I'm not sure I recall that, actually. When did she run around with a gun
> shooting Nazis?
>
> BTW, what are "quarms"?
>
>Just after the Doctor rescues Ace from being sacrificed (far too easily as well)
they escape through the castle, Ace gets a gun and start shooting nazis without any
quarms (objections).
Sorry, a typo. It should be 'qualms'.
Dastari
Personally, I think that its the best NA ever. I was referring to Doctor Who
and not to other genres, but since Doctor Who is my favorite series, everything
else that I read is judged by its standards.
Eng6gcgs
And that's fine - but to argue that it contains the most frightening display of
war and the bleakest future, or that Dicks doesn't trade in stereotypes, seems
somewhat silly. Since it's the third NA, then I can see the suggestion that it
was the best *yet* - but the series, and later NAs (indeed, NAs just round the
corner from this one) have shown much more frightening wars, bleaker futures,
and how to portray characters without using stereotypes.
>I was referring to Doctor Who
>and not to other genres, but since Doctor Who is my favorite series,
>everything else that I read is judged by its standards.
OK, so are you suggesting that the images of war we see in 'TW: Exodus' are
more frightening than those of 'Platoon,' 'Apocalypse Now,' 'All Quiet on the
Western Front,' 'Empire of the Sun' and dozens more? That the future it shows
(or, as you said, an alternative past really, but either way) is bleaker than
'1984,' 'Bladerunner,' etc.? There are countless other examples which may well
be somewhat more obscure, I'm sure you've encountered some somewhere.
Dastari
I don't get the stereotype comment. Are you trying to say that the Nazis
weren't just a sadistic little hate group that was allowed to grab to much
power?
I've read through Just War and I still think Timewyrm:Exodus is the best of the
NAs. I was rather surprised when Lance pretty much made fun of Timewyrm:Exodus
in that book though. He said that it was pretty much the same as the normal
reality and that there wasn't a big difference between our world and that one.
I began to wonder if he actually read the book. Just War was a cakewalk for the
Doctor compared to Exodus.
Btw, which NAs do you speak of with a bleaker future. I for one don't remember
a single one which had the world dominated by Nazis. I for one can't imagine a
worse prospect.
>>I was referring to Doctor Who
>>and not to other genres, but since Doctor Who is my favorite series,
>>everything else that I read is judged by its standards.
>OK, so are you suggesting that the images of war we see in 'TW: Exodus' are
>more frightening than those of 'Platoon,' 'Apocalypse Now,' 'All Quiet on the
>Western Front,' 'Empire of the Sun' and dozens more?
I've never seen any of those movies but I was more suggesting that the idea of
the Nazis ruling the world is one of hte most terrifying prospects that we've
ever seen in Who.
>That the future it shows
>(or, as you said, an alternative past really, but either way) is bleaker than
>'1984,' 'Bladerunner,' etc.? There are countless other examples which may
>well
>be somewhat more obscure, I'm sure you've encountered some somewhere.
Probably but I've never seen Bladerunner and I haven't read 1984 (I always
meant to though).
Chris Schumacher
wrote:
>(A buncha good stuff)
Hey, are you ever going to produce a "Favorite 20 MAs" list? I've been using
your Favorite 20 NAs one as a shopping list and haven't been disappointed thus
far.
-==Kensu==-
Chris Schumacher
>
>Another winner from Kate. This really cements the Benny Books in quality
>terms, with a really well-thought-out story, a magnificent Benny and
>glorious writing.
I dunno. I don't like WTB for the simple fact that it's does something which I
was afraid that most of the Benny NAs were going to end up doing, but didn't.
WTB is a Doctor Who story without the Doctor in it. Because of this, it chafes
in it's position as a Benny NA. It was the only Benny NA to feature time travel,
and I began to realize that I didn't miss it one bit. The book feels extremely
unbalanced because the Doctor isn't in it. Because the Doctor and the TARDIS are
gone the "go anywhere and do anything" attitude no longer applies. And
considering that the Pearl Harbor of the supposed-coming People/Time Lord war
already happened (Tyler's Folly) this seemed rather redundant.
-==Kensu==-
Chris Schumacher
wrote:
>I can understand not reading them because of lack of time/money/interest
>show intelligence not to read intelligent, thoughtful, entertaining and
>complex books like the Bernice NAs?
>
> - Robert Smith?
Because then you'd expect more, and you won't like the BBC books as much.
If only there were more Alien Bodies and less Ultimate Treasures...
-==Kensu==-
Chris Schumacher
>Y'know, the more bashes you take at this guy, the more you remind me that
>I really should ring up Andrew to get his advice on the seventh Doctor
>proposal I'm working on. Thanks. :-)
>
While you're at it, ask him if he'll write a Benny NA. Now that's somethning I'd
LOVE to see.
-==Kensu==-
Chris Schumacher
>> Alien Bodies
>
>Sheer dazzling brilliance for its first nine-tenths, which only makes the
>lacklustre ending even more of a letdown. But yes, it deserves a score of 10
>even despite that. And thank goodness it wasn't a fanwank old-enemies fest,
>which in the hands of certain authors it would have been.
What's interesting about it is that we have the greatest enemies that the Doctor
has ever faced gathering for an auction. Why should we assume that we'd have MET
any of them yet? The Doctor's only middle-aged for cripes sake. :)
What is essential, I think, is the fact that the main spoiler of the book not be
spoiled. I remember reading the one sentence and saying "OH FUCK!" out loud.
Every once in a while a Doctor Who book makes me do that, and it's one of the
greatest feelings in the world. :)
Of course, there was also another time like that, right after I read the end.
"FUCK! How could he leave us hanging like that! That bastard! Curse you,
Lawrence Miles! Curse you! And curse me, because I'm going to reserve all your
books months in advance!" :)
-==Kensu==-
Philip Craggs
Jonathan Blum wrote:
> In article <19ife7...@anacon.demon.co.uk>,
> Mark Evans <ma...@anacon.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >ż - Infinity Rising - ? <tim...@www.geocities.com> wrote:
> >> Philip Craggs wrote:
> >>> Spoilt for me by the way the Doctor has no quarms about Ace running around
> >>> with a gun and shooting Nazi's. Or the way Ace had no quarms about running
> >>> around with a gun shooting Nazis.
>
> >> Remember Ace in "The Happiness Patrol"? I think it fits.
>
> >But the first point still stands, why didn't The Doctor object to it.
>
> About four pages later, when Ace asks the Doctor why he's not objecting to
> the Nazis killing each other, he quotes her "Just getting a bit of my own
> back" comment back to her. He also muses about how the brutal atmosphere
> appears to be affecting the two of them as well. I don't think he
> really had no objection -- he just wanted to get out of there first. :-)
>
> And Paul mentioned Ace having nightmares about shooting that Nazi in "Love
> And War", IIRC.
>
> Regards,
> Jon Blum
She still did it though, and the Doctor still didn't try to stop her. The Doctor
and companion have been in similar positions before and not shot their way out.
For me this is totally out of character and it spoilt the rest of the novel for
me.
And will someone PLEASE explain to me what the Happiness Patrol comment was about,
because i still don't understand.
Philip Craggs
Kafenken wrote:
> > Alien Bodies
>
> Sheer dazzling brilliance for its first nine-tenths, which only makes the
> lacklustre ending even more of a letdown. But yes, it deserves a score of 10
> even despite that. And thank goodness it wasn't a fanwank old-enemies fest,
> which in the hands of certain authors it would have been.
>
You mean, apart from the Krotons, the Time Lords, the Celestial Intervention
agency...
Admittedly the Celesties were very good, but while i think this novel is
competant, it in no way (IMHO) deserves half the praise it gets. It gives far too
much away, and 'fan-wank' is exactly how i'd describe it.
Jonathan Blum
-- <sha...@wam.umd.edu> wrote:
[re Alien Bodies]
>You know, I still haven't figured out who Mr. Q was. Apparently he was seen
>in a previous video/novel...
SPOILERS...
Lawrence said he had in mind that Mr. Qixotl was in fact Drax from
"Armageddon Factor". Steve vetoed revealing this on the grounds that it
was just too fanwanky. :-)
Regards,
Jon Blum
(who still gets a bit boggled by responding to someone from a wam.umd.edu
account -- that's where I started out on the net! Comp Sci major /
Theater minor at the University of Maryland. Shadows, you might get a
kick out of "Time Rift" -- we shot most of it in and around Marie Mount
Hall and the Engineering building!)
Philip Craggs
R.J. Smith wrote:
> In article <7edsd2$aki$1...@dailyplanet.wam.umd.edu>,
> -- <sha...@wam.umd.edu> wrote:
> >R.J. Smith (smit...@mcmail.cis.McMaster.CA) wrote:
>
>
> >Illegal Alien - Tucker & Perry
>
> >I've said it before, and I'll say it again, this book is one of the
> >scariest Doctor Who books I've read. I found myself unable to put the
> >book down as the horror mounted and grew, until I found myself digging
> >the old night-light out of the closet to ward off the Things That Go
> >Bump in the Night. Of all the cybermen stories and plots, this one
> >is possibly the best in describing the Cybermen's invasion means and
> >ways, and puts the fear back in the Silver Men. There are no cheap
> >and dirty ways for getting rid of the silver menace: no gold credit
> >cards, radiation rooms, or guns made with nail-polish remover. Only
> >the seventh doctor's ingenuity can save the world. I'll make a point
> >of rereading this one around Halloween. :)
>
> Yikes!
>
> This was awful, tedious stuff. I'm astonished that anyone found anything
> redeeming in it at all, let alone actually liked it.
>
> Something about Tucker and Perry's writing just puts me off. Some nice
> descriptions of the era, but that was about it. Urgh.
>
> - Robert Smith?
I really liked this one, it would have been great to have seen in in season 27
where it was supposed to go. Still, not as good as Matrix though.
Philip Craggs
Chris Schumacher wrote:
I'd go the other way around myself.
Stephen Graves
Jonathan Blum wrote in message <7eu6c1$no6$1...@the-fly.zip.com.au>...
>In article <7esvbv$7t5$1...@dailyplanet.wam.umd.edu>,
>-- <sha...@wam.umd.edu> wrote:
>[re Alien Bodies]
>>You know, I still haven't figured out who Mr. Q was. Apparently he was
seen
>>in a previous video/novel...
>
>SPOILERS...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Lawrence said he had in mind that Mr. Qixotl was in fact Drax from
>"Armageddon Factor". Steve vetoed revealing this on the grounds that it
>was just too fanwanky. :-)
I prefer to think of him as an entirely new character; in fact, one of the
things I liked best about AB was the way it made fanwanky references to past
stories that haven't actually been written (Hmmm. A bit like Timelash in
that respect...). Maybe we could see more of this in the books?
SG
Dastari
>I prefer to think of him as an entirely new character; in fact, one of the
>things I liked best about AB was the way it made fanwanky references to past
>stories that haven't actually been written (Hmmm. A bit like Timelash in
>that respect...). Maybe we could see more of this in the books?
>
>
A lot of the Virgin books did this. Both Managra and The Empire of Glass
referred to the first Doctor being present for the Spanish Inquisition. This
story has not yet been shown.
Si Jerram
Well it happens right through Who. Jon Pertwee reminicing about meeting
Napoleon, Tom Baker meeting Leonardo da Vinchi off screen. If we
expect every single aspect of the Doctor's life "On Screen" then
we're wanting to see every meal and every time he goes to
the toilet as well.
--
Simon Jerram Email:si...@telos.clara.co.uk
These are my own opinions.
Azaxyr
>If we
>expect every single aspect of the Doctor's life "On Screen" then
>we're wanting to see every meal and every time he goes to
>the toilet as well.
Since you brought it up, isn't it a little odd that
the characters never have to take a dunk -
especially during those adventures where
days pass and not one character complains
about having to use leaves or snow to wipe?
"All these worlds....
...Will make excellent sites for our garbage dumps."
Eng6gcgs
>Kafenken wrote:
>
>> > Alien Bodies
>>
>>Sheer dazzling brilliance for its first nine-tenths, which only makes the
>>lacklustre ending even more of a letdown. But yes, it deserves a score of 10
>>even despite that. And thank goodness it wasn't a fanwank old-enemies fest,
>>which in the hands of certain authors it would have been.
>
>You mean, apart from the Krotons, the Time Lords, the Celestial Intervention
>agency...
But that's the point, Phil - in the hands of other authors (mentioning no
names, lets call them "genric BBC writer who perhaps also wrote a novelisation
or two") those would have been bad fanwank fests. In Lawrence's hands, we get
formidible and threatening Krotons (and there's two adjectives I'd never have
associated with the Krotons before this story), what would have been the first
new twist on Time Lords in a good couple of decades had 'Lungbarrow' not been
published recently, an absolutely shocking development of the character of the
CIA hinted at in 'DA' and seen in 'Lungbarrow,' and lots of other spanking
stuff.
> Admittedly the Celesties were very good, but while i think this novel is
>competant, it in no way (IMHO) deserves half the praise it gets. It gives far
>too much away,
<splutter>
> and 'fan-wank' is exactly how i'd describe it.
It's not (IMO) as good as 'CoaRP' (but NA authors do seem to often have
enormous truble bettering their first books), and you can label it as fanwank
(we hit upon the good/bad fanwank distinction last year - 'T8D' being
attrocious fanwank, 'Lungbarrow' being fanatstic, esential, water'shed fanwank,
'Happy Endings' as fun, frolicking fanwank, etc.) but that doesn't stop it
being the best Beeb book yet in an awful lot of reader's eyes (not that there's
a lot of competition, of course).
ke...@tooon.demon.co.uk
> The Scales of Injustice
>
> Well its got the Silurians doesn't it? Also, we get an actual reason for Liz
> leaving (I just read the Devil Goblins retcons this ARGH!).
No it doesn't. Don't believe everything you read!
--
K
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Chris Rednour
> Stephen Graves wrote:
>
> >I prefer to think of him as an entirely new character; in fact, one of the
> >things I liked best about AB was the way it made fanwanky references to past
> >stories that haven't actually been written (Hmmm. A bit like Timelash in
> >that respect...). Maybe we could see more of this in the books?
> >
> >
>
> A lot of the Virgin books did this. Both Managra and The Empire of Glass
> referred to the first Doctor being present for the Spanish Inquisition. This
> story has not yet been shown.
I'm sure we'll see it when we least suspect it...
-Chris Rednour
_________________________________________________________________
gs0...@panther.gsu.edu | cred...@gpc.peachnet.edu |||||||||||||
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Rednour
> Si Jerram <si...@telos.clara.co.uk> writes:
>
> >If we
> >expect every single aspect of the Doctor's life "On Screen" then
> >we're wanting to see every meal and every time he goes to
> >the toilet as well.
>
> Since you brought it up, isn't it a little odd that
> the characters never have to take a dunk -
> especially during those adventures where
> days pass and not one character complains
> about having to use leaves or snow to wipe?
Perhaps the Doctor has substituted their normal underwear with new,
scientifically advanced toilet underwear?
Would be pretty handy when the Daleks jump [figuratively] out of cover and
surprise your bowels into action as well...
Philip Craggs
Eng6gcgs wrote:
> Philip Craggs <donald...@diamond.co.uk> writes:
>
(Alien Bodies)
> but that doesn't stop it
> being the best Beeb book yet in an awful lot of reader's eyes (not that there's
> a lot of competition, of course).
Nah, Lawrance Miles isn't the king of the BBC range, Mike Collier is. Two novels
that outclass the others in almost every department, especially (with the exception
of Lance Parkin) characterisation of the Doctor.
And i'm still not comfortable with how much of the future was given away.
'Lungbarrow' was about the past, which is fine to explore, and it had been done
slowly in other novels before that one. 'AB' is just a bolt from the blue about
what WILL happen, and for me, that's always been part of the mystery. So now we
know that in his ninth incarnation (in fact, we now know that he will have a ninth
incarnation) he will get some sort of special powers (X-Men anybody? We seem to be
getting in to cartoon land here) and he will die in the middle of a war near
Dronid. He will also regenerate in to an older man again (unless that incarnation
loasts for several hundred years) and he will go to the celesties and make a deal
before dying.
Anyone else with any ideas that could have been employed more subtly can sod off
now. I'm dreading 'Interference' because again it seems like ultimate fan-wank. The
8th and third Doctors together? Oh god no. Cold Fusion got away with it by its
sheer brilliance, i can't see Interference matching it. I'll give it a cahance of
course, but i don't like the chances of it being any good. And then we have to
worry about 'The Taking of Planet 5' which is apparently more explicit in it's
explanations of the Time Lord war, the celesties and the like.
Bring back Andrew Cartmel, at least he left us with SOME mysteries.
R.J. Smith
Eng6gcgs <eng6...@aol.com> wrote:
>smit...@mcmail.cis.McMaster.CA (R.J. Smith) writes:
>>>Philip Craggs wrote:
>>>> Don't read the Bernice NAs/
>>>A man with intelligence! :-)
>>Sorry, but I don't understand this comment.
>>I can understand not reading them because of lack of time/money/interest
>>(especially on the grounds that they aren't DW),
>/Obligatory partisan sarcasm mode/
>They aren't DW? You could have fooled me. Damn, so that means that there are no
>new DW books being published now. 'Tis a pity.
>/off/
I didn't say I necessary thought the Bernice NAs weren't DW, just that I
understood the reasoning that allows some to conclude that.
- Robert Smith?
R.J. Smith
Chris Schumacher <ke...@madison.tdsnet.com> wrote:
>On 6 Apr 1999 14:46:58 -0400, smit...@mcmail.cis.McMaster.CA (R.J. Smith)
>wrote:
>>(A buncha good stuff)
>Hey, are you ever going to produce a "Favorite 20 MAs" list? I've been using
>your Favorite 20 NAs one as a shopping list and haven't been disappointed thus
>far.
I'll start accepting bribes from the MA authors right away :-)
- Robert Smith?