Five Doctors question II
TAE S SON
>From: Steven Moffat <10004...@CompuServe.COM>
>Subject: Five Doctors question II
>Date: 15 Nov 1994 18:23:14 GMT
>Christopher Beattie <chr...@mpgn.com> writes:
>> > In article <28OCT199...@utkvx.utk.edu>,
>> > Michael Hickerson <mhic...@utkvx.utk.edu> wrote:
>> > >In article <CyCHz...@credit.erin.utoronto.ca>,
>e0fk...@tuzo.erin.utoronto.ca writes...
>> > >>shouldn't peter davison have known the whole story coz if
>it happened to
>> > >>drs 1-4 it was in his past so he would remember it all.
>>
>Couldn't we just assume that the Doctor is observing some point
>of temporal protocol. In other words the various Doctors can
>remember the adventure from their previous experiences but must
>behave exactly as they remember themselves behaving. To clarify:
>Davison remembers his lines because he's heard them before
>several times over and now musn't contradict his own history by
>conflicting with his own memories. He doesn't share his
>fore-knowledge with his companions because, as he has stated
>several times, such fore-knowledge is dangerous. So the poor sod
>is forced to plod through the same cycle of events at several
>points in his history knowing the outcome but forced to behave as
>if it's all a big surprise. The Time Lord equivalent of reruns.
>Which means in "The Five Doctors" they're all only acting and
>it's just a pantomime. Doesn't that have the ring of truth?
>Steven Moffat
That could explain why it's the First Doctor that figures it out . . . :)
But I still prefer the selective amnesia explanation -- the same thing that
happened to the Brig in "Mawdryn". :)
--
"Somewhere else the tea's getting cold."
Segonax
<10004...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
> Christopher Beattie <chr...@mpgn.com> writes:
> > > In article <28OCT199...@utkvx.utk.edu>,
> > > Michael Hickerson <mhic...@utkvx.utk.edu> wrote:
> > > >In article <CyCHz...@credit.erin.utoronto.ca>,
> e0fk...@tuzo.erin.utoronto.ca writes...
> > > >>shouldn't peter davison have known the whole story coz if
> it happened to
> > > >>drs 1-4 it was in his past so he would remember it all.
>
> Couldn't we just assume that the Doctor is observing some point
> of temporal protocol. In other words the various Doctors can
> remember the adventure from their previous experiences but must
> behave exactly as they remember themselves behaving. To clarify:
> Davison remembers his lines because he's heard them before
> several times over and now musn't contradict his own history by
> conflicting with his own memories. He doesn't share his
> fore-knowledge with his companions because, as he has stated
> several times, such fore-knowledge is dangerous. So the poor sod
> is forced to plod through the same cycle of events at several
> points in his history knowing the outcome but forced to behave as
> if it's all a big surprise. The Time Lord equivalent of reruns.
My theory is: when the Doctor has adventures at the same *time* as
his other selves, he can't possibly remember anything about it, because
it hasn't happened yet.
It also has to be taken into account that these events occur at the
time in the series that is the time of the Doctor's life. Therefore,
any other adventures haven't happened until now: the Doctor hasn't been
there so there's nothing to remember.
Then there's the more easily understandable theory: when the Doctor is
in the presence of his other selves, he cannot remember their activities
because if he could it would cause a paradox and something would happen
like what happened to the fifth Doctor on the Eye of Orion, only worse.
Call it a defense mechanism.
Missing Adventures explain the hitches, like the possibility that
the second Doctor was scooped out of time by Borusa *before* he was
regenerated by the Time Lords and reached Earth. Something happened to make
him so mellow (the MA) and part of this was to seek out the Brigadier.
Perhaps he believed that once he did this, he would be returned, thus his
reaction to the obelisk on Earth "it could be the past or the future" blah
blah. Shock horror, he finds himself on Gallifrey and reverts back to his
usual self in order to find out what's happened.
Sound like a reasonable idea for an MA? ;-)
Segonax.
Steven Moffat
> > In article <28OCT199...@utkvx.utk.edu>,
> > Michael Hickerson <mhic...@utkvx.utk.edu> wrote:
> > >In article <CyCHz...@credit.erin.utoronto.ca>,
e0fk...@tuzo.erin.utoronto.ca writes...
> > >>shouldn't peter davison have known the whole story coz if
it happened to
> > >>drs 1-4 it was in his past so he would remember it all.
>
Couldn't we just assume that the Doctor is observing some point
of temporal protocol. In other words the various Doctors can
remember the adventure from their previous experiences but must
behave exactly as they remember themselves behaving. To clarify:
Davison remembers his lines because he's heard them before
several times over and now musn't contradict his own history by
conflicting with his own memories. He doesn't share his
fore-knowledge with his companions because, as he has stated
several times, such fore-knowledge is dangerous. So the poor sod
is forced to plod through the same cycle of events at several
points in his history knowing the outcome but forced to behave as
if it's all a big surprise. The Time Lord equivalent of reruns.
Which means in "The Five Doctors" they're all only acting and
David L.P.Holder
I've always had a pet theory that since interacting with future, or
indeed, past regenerations what strictly forbidden except in the gravest
emergencies, that the Time Lords would erase the events from The Doctor's
memory - from all his regenerations. This also accounts for the fact
that it is never ever mentioned again.
Just my $0.02 worth.
+----------------------------------------+----------------------------------+
| David L.P.Holder d...@coventry.ac.uk | "The very deep did rot: O Christ,|
| | That ever this should be, Yea, |
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+----------------------------------------+----------------------------------+
Steven Moffat
> [concerning the possibility of The Doctor remembering in later
generations].
>
> I've always had a pet theory that since interacting with
future, or
> indeed, past regenerations what strictly forbidden except in
the gravest
> emergencies, that the Time Lords would erase the events from
The Doctor's
> memory
Not so. Drs 1 and 2 remember the events of "The Three Doctors"
in "The FIve Doctors" (2 talks about Omega with the Brig and 1
enquires "Where's the little fellow?" on encountering 3.) 5 also
remembers Omega in "Arc Of Whatever". I still think the simplest
and least fussy explanation is that he does remember but has to
go through the motions exactly as he remembers from the last time
round so as no to contradict his own history. This fits with what
he's always said about changing history and the dangers of
fore-knowledge.
Steven Moffat
John Elliott
: Steven Moffat
I'd think that at the moment when a Doctor's incarnation is taken out of
time for a 'multiple-Doctors' story, later Doctors lose the memories of
incarnation x, and incarnation x loses the memories of earlier Doctors. Thus
(for example) in t5D, the 3rd Doctor would be able to remember his part in t3D,
but not the 2nd Doctor's part in either story.
--
John Elliott
elliott....@physics.oxford.ac.uk
----------------------------------------------------
BLOODNOK: "But why have you got such a long face?"
SEAGOON: "Heavy dentures, Sir!"
- The Goon Show
:--------------------------------------------------)
Charles B. Martin
: Steven Moffat
I've always understood it as follows:
When Time Traveling, there is always the possibility of corrupting
the time line. Changing things that were never ment to happen. This
might be one of those cases. Since none of the incarnations (regenerated
Doctors) had actually encountered this series of events, it would have
been new to each one of them. It could be argued that since it happened
to the First, each of them should remember. By the time you get to the
Fifth, he should remember doing it four (three actually, #4 is stuck
in the forcefield or whatever) times before. But since a paradox was
created (by taking the Doctors out of their time lines and exposing
them to something that shouldn't have happened), each Doctor didn't
remember, because it hadn't happened to them (or their former selves).
This is just my theory, and can be easily flamed or shot holes in, but
that is what I had to come up with to have the episode sit well with me.
Chuck Martin
<cbma...@whale.st.usm.edu>