New Earth (some spoilers)

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David A McIntee

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Apr 15, 2006, 4:42:41 PM4/15/06
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Well, DW TNG as I call it is back for season 2, with "New Earth"

Wow, who'd have thought Eccles would be coming back so soon? They hid that
well!

And the Face Of Boe's delivery of "I am the Master, and you will obey me!" -
well, shivers down the spine! I never expected *that* would be his secret!


Nah, actually I'm making up that bollocks to wind up non-UK viewers. My
impressions of the *actual* episode are after a bit more spoiler space...

Just a little


OK, here we go.


Overall it was good harmless fun. It wasn't an epic burst-onto-the-screen
kind of thing, but it was entertaining and well-made and well-acted. It's
kind of the opposite approach to last year's "Rose": That show was all about
making a first impression that said "this *is* Dr Who" but it doesn't really
hold up as well an ordinary episode in the run, or in repeated viewings.
"New Earth" would fit better later in a season, basically because of the
nature of it. It's a body-swap episode, you see, and therefore it would help
if we're more familiar with what the 10th Doc is supposed to be like
normally. As it is, we don't really know yet, but I suspect that when this
episode is rewatched later - with more experience of TenDoc - it'll hold up
in a way that "Rose" doesn't. Indeed it might even improve.

Plot-wise it was simple enough. Being an RTD script, there's a bit of
laboured social comment and the plot doesn't make internal sense.
Specifically, Cassandra needs to lure Rose into the Psycho-graft to take her
over, but then it turns out she can hop between bodies at will anyway. And
what about the whole "the cure for that won't be invented for another
thousand years" stuff, when it ended up simply being that they *had*
invented it - presumably by using the "lab rat" zombies a source of
vaccines.

Which reminds me, how could they speak? They're clones - they haven't been
taught to speak. Hell, they haven't been taught how to walk or climb
ladders, so how do they know to do it?! In fact what's with the needing a
touch: they literally shouldn't know what they're missing!

Nevertheless it was fun, with witty dialogue and great direction. There were
even some of the trademark emotional moments - a very touching end for
Cassandra. Bit of a cop-out re the Face of Boe's message though. (Is anybody
else thinking that Boe is going to turn out to be either the 13th Doctor or
some sort of living agglomeration of the Time Lords/Matrix? Or is it just
me?)

Tennant is immediately fab as the Doctor - and here's a Scottish Doc who
*can* do funny and do anger. Can't we CG him over Sylv throughout the McCoy
era? Having said that, I'm not sure his Kenneth Williams impression was up
to snuff... Not that this is something to really single him out for, as it's
just another example of McIntee's Law of Acting. For those who used to read
the DW video reviews I used to do in DWB, this basically states that there
is about a 95% chance that any actor - no matter how brilliant normally -
will forget how to act when called upon to play an evil/alternate version
(duplicate or possessed). Notable exceptions to the Law are John Levene (in
The Android Invasion), Nick Courtney (Inferno) and now Billie Piper in this
episode. Cos, like, she does it brilliantly. It was cool that Zoe Wanamaker
actually got to *appear* as Cassandra this time.

Now... The Sisters of Plenitude. Cat-Nuns. Maybe it's just me but I thought
they were really sexy. I definitely want to see them back in future
episodes.

The music score was great - nice use of Rose's theme in there - and of
course the effects were great too.

Overall I reckon it's the sort of episode (being a body-swap comedy) that
most series would put in about half to two-thirds of the way into the
season, like last year's "Long Game." And, as I said about that episode, if
this is the average, forgettable, baseline, then the series has nothing to
worry about cos even this average baseline gets a 7/10 from me.

--
Redemption 07 - B5 B7 and Beyond, 23-25 February 2007.
http://www.smof.com/redemption

"Shiny- Let's be bad guys..." [Jayne Cobb]

Book At Bedtime: Killing Ground (Steve Lyons)

http://lonemagpie.livejournal.com

Andy Leighton

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Apr 15, 2006, 4:56:13 PM4/15/06
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On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 16:42:41 -0400,
David A McIntee <david....@btnotopentospamworld.com> wrote:
> Now... The Sisters of Plenitude. Cat-Nuns. Maybe it's just me but I thought
> they were really sexy. I definitely want to see them back in future
> episodes.

No it wasn't just you. I wasn't too keen on the mother superior / ward
sister but the cat-nun who was on the Tardisode (bloody silly name) and
tending ... .... .. ... (fill in the blanks) does it for me. I am not
sure whether I feel slightly disconcerted by that.

> The music score was great - nice use of Rose's theme in there - and of
> course the effects were great too.

More sensible use of fx as well. In a number of other RTD scripts the
fx has tended to draw attention to itself.

--
Andy Leighton => an...@azaal.plus.com
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

The Doctor

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Apr 15, 2006, 5:07:59 PM4/15/06
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Seems like the average is 7.5/10 . A little better than average.
--
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This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
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Remeber Christ is the Reason for Good Friday and Resurrection Sunday

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MHW

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Apr 15, 2006, 5:17:52 PM4/15/06
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"David A McIntee" <david....@btnotopentospamworld.com> wrote in message
news:eYCdnb_T6pc...@bt.com...

Dear Beard of Evil,

This is what your post looks like on Google:
http://goto.cream.org/beardofevil.

Spoiler spaces disappear if you're not careful.

TTFN

--
MHW

David A McIntee

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Apr 15, 2006, 5:28:53 PM4/15/06
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"MHW" <pabl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e1rnts$kf9$1...@sol01.ashbva.gweep.ca...

Which just goes to prove how evil Google is.

But we knew that already.

Brax

unread,
Apr 15, 2006, 5:38:36 PM4/15/06
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David A McIntee wrote:
> Well, DW TNG as I call it is back for season 2, with "New Earth"
>
> Wow, who'd have thought Eccles would be coming back so soon? They hid that
> well!

and him being the President of the High Council of the Time Lords was
quite a shock! Shacked up with Romana too!

> And the Face Of Boe's delivery of "I am the Master, and you will obey me!" -
> well, shivers down the spine! I never expected *that* would be his secret!

hehehe.

> Nah, actually I'm making up that bollocks to wind up non-UK viewers. My
> impressions of the *actual* episode are after a bit more spoiler space...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Just a little
>
>
>
>
>
>

> snip>

>Bit of a cop-out re the Face of Boe's message though.

Yes, that's the only bit I found disappointing, though I liked the
DOctor's reaction to that.

> (Is anybody
> else thinking that Boe is going to turn out to be either the 13th Doctor or
> some sort of living agglomeration of the Time Lords/Matrix? Or is it just
> me?)

Just you, I'd say :o)

It's been bugging me for a couple of hours what he reminded me of, but
talking about it here he's just like Kosh from Babylon 5 crossed with
Galadriel in that scene.

> Tennant is immediately fab as the Doctor - and here's a Scottish Doc who
> *can* do funny and do anger.

Following his movements over the past few years playing characters like
Galanar, Luther Arkwright, and Casanova I knew I'd love the tenth Doctor
more than most Doctors, and what I've seen tonight and at Christmas is
strengthening that belief.

> Now... The Sisters of Plenitude. Cat-Nuns. Maybe it's just me but I thought
> they were really sexy. I definitely want to see them back in future
> episodes.

Also nice to see that they weren't actually evil, just followed the path
to hell led by their good intentions.

> The music score was great - nice use of Rose's theme in there - and of
> course the effects were great too.

Wonderful to retain the National Orchestra of Wales in the end credits too!

> Overall I reckon it's the sort of episode (being a body-swap comedy) that
> most series would put in about half to two-thirds of the way into the
> season, like last year's "Long Game." And, as I said about that episode, if
> this is the average, forgettable, baseline, then the series has nothing to
> worry about cos even this average baseline gets a 7/10 from me.

indeed, if *that* was the light throwaway one, just imagine what's going
to follow!!

Brax

MHW

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Apr 15, 2006, 6:00:06 PM4/15/06
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"David A McIntee" <david....@btnotopentospamworld.com> wrote in message
news:q_SdnX_jDJ3...@bt.com...

> Which just goes to prove how evil Google is.
>
> But we knew that already.

Yeah, but seriously, I might have to depend on it again. And when I say
might, I mean 'probably for the next two weeks, sans TV'. Proper spoiler
space will give me a chance to navigate properly.

Please?

--
MHW

David A McIntee

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Apr 15, 2006, 6:04:46 PM4/15/06
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"MHW" <pabl...@yahoo.com> wrote

> Yeah, but seriously, I might have to depend on it again. And when I say
> might, I mean 'probably for the next two weeks, sans TV'. Proper spoiler
> space will give me a chance to navigate properly.
>
> Please?

Remind me on Friday night/Saturday morning

Stephen Wilson

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Apr 15, 2006, 6:13:06 PM4/15/06
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"MHW" <pabl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e1rqd5$mjt$1...@sol01.ashbva.gweep.ca...

Hmph. My niece's birthday tomorrow. So I went to town to buy her a present.
Just passing the comics section when I saw an issue of Doctor Who
Adventures. I bought it for her cos it has a free whoopee cushion... oops,
sorry, I mean a Slitheen gas exchange. So of course, I had a flick through
the comic too. Which basically gave away the plot. Although the comic is
dated 19 April, so somehow it hit the newstands 4 days early.

MHW

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Apr 15, 2006, 6:24:41 PM4/15/06
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"David A McIntee" <david....@btnotopentospamworld.com> wrote in message
news:cvKdnWKz2dpt8NzZ...@bt.com...

> Remind me on Friday night/Saturday morning

You've been reminded Friday night/Saturday morning. I did it in a previous
message. So that's fine.

--
MHW

Chancellor_Goth

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Apr 15, 2006, 9:45:29 PM4/15/06
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"Stephen Wilson" <sr.w...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Nbe0g.34854$Ph2....@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...

> Hmph. My niece's birthday tomorrow. So I went to town to buy her a
> present. Just passing the comics section when I saw an issue of Doctor Who
> Adventures. I bought it for her cos it has a free whoopee cushion... oops,
> sorry, I mean a Slitheen gas exchange. So of course, I had a flick through
> the comic too. Which basically gave away the plot. Although the comic is
> dated 19 April, so somehow it hit the newstands 4 days early.

Weird! Not meant to be out until Wednesday... nice one.


--

Frank
"Incidentally, I'm a bit alarmed by your assumptions that thinking and
laughing are mutually exclusive activities. Best wishes, Douglas Adams"

jimmy_screw

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Apr 16, 2006, 1:39:55 AM4/16/06
to
> indeed, if *that* was the light throwaway one, just imagine what's going
> to follow!!


I hope you guys are right about this being a 'weak-side' kind of
episode as I didn't like it much at all. Poor storyline and still not
sure about Tennant. Billie Piper appears to have lost some of her
appeal too and, maybe it's just me, but the Cassandra ending was
absolute rubbish.

Perhaps I missed something but there seemed to be plenty of humans
wandering around the hospital already, so I don't understand the bit
about 'saving the human race'. All they did is save a few more humans
- that's all, surely? What about that uptight, businesswoman looking
after that fat bloke in one of the wards? she could just as easily have
stepped out of the 1990's.

Hopefully, The Face of Boe's legendary dying words to the Doctor are
not going to be this series' 'Bad Wolf'-style arc. That would be
disastrous - what a load of overstretched, unecessarily melodramatic
codswallop.

Not happy about the way Harriet Jones PM (Xmas episode) and, indeed,
Cassandra have had their characterisations reversed from 'goodie' to
'baddie' and vice versa, respectively.

Still, plenty to look forward too - next week appears to be a
re-working of The Curse Of Fenric and there's still Sarah-Jane Smith
(she would never allow herself to get all gooey over the Doctor), K-9,
the new Cybermen and the Prime Minsister from Little Britain to hit our
sreens in the near future so let's hope the series picks up
dramatically.

The idea is that we shouldn't be allowed to miss the last series too
much even though I thought every episode was solid and Ecclestone was
superb! I hope the danger signals prove to be a false alarm - but not a
very promising start at all.

The Stainless Steel Cat

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Apr 16, 2006, 3:22:57 AM4/16/06
to
In article <eYCdnb_T6pc...@bt.com>,

"David A McIntee" <david....@btnotopentospamworld.com> wrote:

>Well, DW TNG as I call it is back for season 2, with "New Earth"
>
>Wow, who'd have thought Eccles would be coming back so soon? They hid that
>well!
>
>And the Face Of Boe's delivery of "I am the Master, and you will obey me!" -
>well, shivers down the spine! I never expected *that* would be his secret!
>
>
>Nah, actually I'm making up that bollocks to wind up non-UK viewers. My
>impressions of the *actual* episode are after a bit more spoiler space...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Just a little
>
>
>
>
>
>
>OK, here we go.
>
>

>Now... The Sisters of Plenitude. Cat-Nuns. Maybe it's just me but I thought
>they were really sexy. I definitely want to see them back in future
>episodes.

It's not just you... My first thought was, "I wonder how many nipples they
have?"

Is that bad and wrong of me?

Cat.

Brax

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Apr 16, 2006, 10:55:14 AM4/16/06
to
jimmy_screw wrote:
>> indeed, if *that* was the light throwaway one, just imagine what's going
>> to follow!!
??
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?

> Not happy about the way Harriet Jones PM (Xmas episode) and, indeed,
> Cassandra have had their characterisations reversed from 'goodie' to
> 'baddie' and vice versa, respectively.

Cassandra's change of sides was only temporary whilst she saved her own
skin, something that we saw the Master do many times. I do find her
redemption a bit sudden though, maybe merging with Chip (someone who
loves her with all his heart) overpowered her for a short while and the
heart attack and Chip's acceptance of it changed her mind for a short
period - by the time she'd have been able to not want to die again she
was already dead.

As for the humans, maybe the millions of perfectly healthy humans freed
by the Doctor from the hospital are vastly greater in number than the
'post-humans' on New Earth and this will give them a significantly
enlarged chance of survival?

There, two perfectly plausible theories Sorvad would be proud of for his
DWM column. You should have heard me talking after the TVM, ten years
ago :o)

Brax
and no, I am not he...

Brax

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Apr 16, 2006, 10:58:28 AM4/16/06
to

coming from you that's purfectly acceptable, I would say. Reminds me of
the scene in Big Finish's first audio drama:
(at the King's Ball Benny's transfigured cat spots another of his kind...)
Wolsey: Mmm, Puss in boots!
Bernice: I've warned you about your language before!

Brax

The Doctor

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Apr 16, 2006, 1:29:02 PM4/16/06
to
In article <1145148510.4...@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,

jimmy_screw <gee...@waitrose.com> wrote:
>
>Hopefully, The Face of Boe's legendary dying words to the Doctor are
>not going to be this series' 'Bad Wolf'-style arc. That would be
>disastrous - what a load of overstretched, unecessarily melodramatic
>codswallop.
>

This is supposed to be the 'Torchwood' Season.

>Not happy about the way Harriet Jones PM (Xmas episode) and, indeed,
>Cassandra have had their characterisations reversed from 'goodie' to
>'baddie' and vice versa, respectively.

Harriet was defending her interests. Still neither good
nor bad.

Cassandra switching roles?? Interesting!

Brax

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Apr 16, 2006, 2:20:05 PM4/16/06
to
The Doctor wrote:
> In article <1145148510.4...@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> jimmy_screw <gee...@waitrose.com> wrote:
>> Hopefully, The Face of Boe's legendary dying words to the Doctor are
>> not going to be this series' 'Bad Wolf'-style arc. That would be
>> disastrous - what a load of overstretched, unecessarily melodramatic
>> codswallop.
>>
>
> This is supposed to be the 'Torchwood' Season.

wasn't that just supposition based upon the BBC buying the Torchwood
domain name?

Brax

Cameron Mason

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Apr 16, 2006, 6:39:41 PM4/16/06
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"Brax" <Braxiatel@en_tea_el_world.com> wrote in message
news:ZUs0g.51774$g76....@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
<snip>

>
> coming from you that's purfectly acceptable, I would say. Reminds me of
> the scene in Big Finish's first audio drama:
> (at the King's Ball Benny's transfigured cat spots another of his kind...)
> Wolsey: Mmm, Puss in boots!
> Bernice: I've warned you about your language before!

Wolsey: The King's Balls get bigger every year.

I've forgotten Benny's follow up, but it was something about haveing no need
to make dick jokes...

Cameron
--
"I always had Beevers on my mind."
- Gary Russell

http://members.fortunecity.com/masomika/

http://members.fortunecity.com/jpcovers/

The Doctor

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Apr 16, 2006, 7:26:03 PM4/16/06
to
In article <LRs0g.51772$g76....@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net>,

Brax <Braxiatel@en_tea_el_world.com> wrote:
>
>Cassandra's change of sides was only temporary whilst she saved her own
>skin, something that we saw the Master do many times.
>
>Brax

Another Master that far ahead in Time? Please tell me
she is dead.

Neil Sullivan

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Apr 17, 2006, 11:11:12 AM4/17/06
to
"jimmy_screw" <gee...@waitrose.com> wrote in message
news:1145148510.4...@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hopefully, The Face of Boe's legendary dying words to the Doctor are
> not going to be this series' 'Bad Wolf'-style arc. That would be
> disastrous - what a load of overstretched, unecessarily melodramatic
> codswallop.

No, a certain organisation by the name of Torchwood will be the running
theme of this season. I suspect it will be turning up next week; I could
just imagine Queen Victoria, after discovering that aliens exist, setting up
a secret society to defend Earth in the future... But that's just my pet
theory :-)

> Not happy about the way Harriet Jones PM (Xmas episode) and, indeed,
> Cassandra have had their characterisations reversed from 'goodie' to
> 'baddie' and vice versa, respectively.

I wouldn't describe Cassandra as a goodie at the end; just a baddie who had
accepted that it was time to die. Slightly less of a baddie, maybe, but not
a reversal. And I don't think there's any black & white judgement we can
make on Harriet Jones' decision.

> Still, plenty to look forward too - next week appears to be a
> re-working of The Curse Of Fenric

Hmm, only in that they both have at least a vague reference to wolves, so
far as I can tell, but you may know more about next week's episode than me -
I've been very careful with spoilers this year!

This reminds me: back before season 26, when all we knew was that the
opening story was going to be called The Wolves of Fenric and was set in
World War II, I had a mental image of the story being set in the
battlefields of Europe with a werewolf on the loose. Whilst the final story
was fantastic, I always felt slightly cheated that we hadn't got that
werewolf I'd imagined. And now I finally get my wish :-)

David A McIntee

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Apr 17, 2006, 11:14:37 AM4/17/06
to
"MHW" <pabl...@yahoo.com> wrote

> You've been reminded Friday night/Saturday morning. I did it in a
> previous message. So that's fine.

Er... what?

I mean this coming Friday night/Saturday Morning

Carol Hague

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Apr 18, 2006, 4:32:36 PM4/18/06
to
David A McIntee <david....@btnotopentospamworld.com> wrote:

> Well, DW TNG as I call it is back for season 2, with "New Earth"

a bit more spoiler space...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Just a little
>
>
>
>
>
>
> OK, here we go.
>
>

> Which reminds me, how could they speak? They're clones - they haven't been


> taught to speak. Hell, they haven't been taught how to walk or climb
> ladders, so how do they know to do it?! In fact what's with the needing a
> touch: they literally shouldn't know what they're missing!

The thing that struck me was, if they're "just flesh", why do they have
clothes? (Yes, I know, because it's before the watershed, but in terms
of internal logic they wouldn't need them)


>
>Notable exceptions to the Law are John Levene (in
> The Android Invasion), Nick Courtney (Inferno) and now Billie Piper in this
> episode. Cos, like, she does it brilliantly.

Doesn't she though? I was very impressed with Billie in this episode -
she's definitely proved her acting credentials with this one.

> It was cool that Zoe Wanamaker
> actually got to *appear* as Cassandra this time.

Yes - and we got to see that the character hadn't always been a
self-centred monster - she showed compassion to a stranger.


>
> Now... The Sisters of Plenitude. Cat-Nuns. Maybe it's just me but I thought
> they were really sexy. I definitely want to see them back in future
> episodes.

I liked the way they were cat-nuns just because they *could* be

> Overall I reckon it's the sort of episode (being a body-swap comedy) that
> most series would put in about half to two-thirds of the way into the
> season, like last year's "Long Game." And, as I said about that episode, if
> this is the average, forgettable, baseline, then the series has nothing to
> worry about cos even this average baseline gets a 7/10 from me.

The only thing that could have done with improvement was the pacing IMO
- the story would've been better over several shorter parts - that scene
with the doors opening and all the clones coming out absolutely cried
out to be a cliffhanger....but maybe that's just my traditionalist
streak. I still enjoyed it an enormous amount

--
Carol
Some are born weird, some achieve weirdness, and others
feed giraffes to the ceiling.
- Richard Robinson on uk.rec.sheds.

jimmy_screw

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Apr 21, 2006, 7:11:43 AM4/21/06
to
OK, first of all thanks Brax for clearing up that matter about the
humans ... I think I understand.

Secondly, there is still no explanation why anybody so far into the
future should be dressed like a City-style 'power' executive.

Thirdly, I didn't make myself too clear on this - it WAS Sunday morning
(afternoon) after all, but I liked the Harriet Jones character and was
slightly peeved that the writers decided to try and turn her into a
dislikable person. The reason for this is obvious as she went against
one of the Doctor's two main principles which are 1. Never try to alter
time, and 2. Avoid the needless extermination of alien species.

Cassandra (like the Dalek in the last series) was supposed to be a
loathsome villain who tried to bring about the destruction of
major-playing alien species for financial gain and for her own
pleasure. In "End Of The World' she displayed almost Nazi-like aspects
of her nature and took great pleasure in her own 'racial purity'. This
is a character undeserving of any sympathy ... which is exactly what
she got in the first episode of the new series.

it is these drastic changes in personality that I am objecting to in DW
that have been apparent since the Xmas special. It could be argued
however, that PM Jones could be likened to the 3rd Doctor's ally,
Lethbridge-Stewart; constantly at loggerheads about the Brigadier's
swiftness to blow up aliens but still allies nevertheless. If this was
the case, then at least allow some further development of the character
first.

As for Billie Piper, she was actually fantastic in New Earth but am
dismayed at the fact that she keeps treating her relationship with the
Doctor as one long date. Tennant is a good looking chap but this isn't
Casanova - I'm not comfortable with any Doctor ever being romantically
involved with his companions. You can shoot me down over this if you
want saying I'm probably just jealous or bitter or whatever but I would
rather encourage a sensible debate about the direction of the new
series.

Lastly, it's no secret that one series wasn't enough for the quite
brilliant Ecclestone but I am not sure wether it is for this reason
that I am having trouble adjusting to Tennant. Maybe it could be
because the Xmas special and New eart were just poor episodes or
perhaps, God forbid, he just doesn't cut the mustard.

I am prepared to reserve judgement until further along for this last
point however.

As for the Face of Boe's part in the episode - pure nonsense.

I understand all that Torchwood nonsense too but am not too excited
about it nevertheless.

...And also, wasn't Cassandra 'inside' Chip when he(she) visited her
previous self at the end? if so, isn't that against the rules?
Nevertheless, I thought that bit was poor and nonsensical too but I am
open to suggestions otherwise.

Don't shoot me down over any of these points (unless you have a
reasonable argument/explanation otherwise). I can't help being
disappointed and I am not a killjoy; there is still plenty to look
forward to in this new series and the next episode in particular looks
fantastic!

jimmy_screw

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Apr 21, 2006, 7:11:50 AM4/21/06
to

Brax

unread,
Apr 21, 2006, 1:26:51 PM4/21/06
to
jimmy_screw wrote:
> OK, first of all thanks Brax for clearing up that matter about the
> humans ... I think I understand.

Glad it helped.

?
?
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> ...And also, wasn't Cassandra 'inside' Chip when he(she) visited her
> previous self at the end? if so, isn't that against the rules?

I think that now the Timeys have gone, all the rules have gone out of
the window. Which I find refreshing.

Anyway, she did say that this was the last time anyone had called her
beautiful, so it happened as it always had happened. She'd just become
part of her own history, as she always had been.

Brax

jimmy_screw

unread,
Apr 21, 2006, 4:04:08 PM4/21/06
to
Time for apologies;

Sorry about the vague 'The Curse of Fenric' reference too in my earlier
post. I had actually meant, in broader terms, a welcome return to the
more 'gothic' style of Who adventures and, in particular, those with
references to the genre of horror.

Sorry too about not putting spoiler warnings before my post - it has
been a while since my last (about this time lastr year actually).

Finally - I am also sorry about posting my last message before this
twice. Don't know how that happened.


... I'm not sorry for any of my previous comments though!

Daibhid Ceanaideach

unread,
Apr 21, 2006, 5:01:02 PM4/21/06
to
Also Sprach Brax:

I'm far too cynical, I was *so* expecting a swirly mist to
pass between Chip and the younger Cassandra...

Cassie seemed pretty shocked by the emotions from the "guinea
pig" as well, and even seemed to show some compassion when she
was back in Rose. I don't think she was ever a "goodie",
though, just a baddie who still had some empathy (or was this
a development from being in Rose?). In the same way, being
pragmatic and making the tough decisions doesn't make Harriet
a bad person, although I can understand why the Doctor didn't
approve.

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
"[Wolverine]'s in every book. I think he just joined
the JLA, and for some reason he's in the revised
Penguin edition of Little Dorrit." -Joss Whedon

Daibhid Ceanaideach

unread,
Apr 21, 2006, 5:15:19 PM4/21/06
to
Also Sprach David A McIntee:

> Well, DW TNG as I call it is back for season 2, with "New
> Earth"
>

> Wow, who'd have thought Eccles would be coming back so
> soon? They hid that well!
>
> And the Face Of Boe's delivery of "I am the Master, and you
> will obey me!" - well, shivers down the spine! I never
> expected *that* would be his secret!

Same here; after Eccles revealed the cat-nuns were the new
Sisterhood of Karn, my money was on Morbius...

> Nah, actually I'm making up that bollocks to wind up non-UK

> viewers. My impressions of the *actual* episode are after a
> bit more spoiler space...
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
> Just a little
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
> OK, here we go.
>
> Plot-wise it was simple enough. Being an RTD script,
> there's a bit of laboured social comment and the plot
> doesn't make internal sense. Specifically, Cassandra needs
> to lure Rose into the Psycho-graft to take her over, but
> then it turns out she can hop between bodies at will
> anyway.

I got the impression that *once* she'd been psycho-grafted
into Rose she gained the body-swap ability, but it wasn't
clear.

> And what about the whole "the cure for that won't
> be invented for another thousand years" stuff, when it
> ended up simply being that they *had* invented it -
> presumably by using the "lab rat" zombies a source of
> vaccines.

Yeah, but they "shouldn't" have; just like the Satelite Five
thing, I assume.

OTOH, we don't know what happened afterwards. ISTR your
Voyager book was disparaging about the idea that medicine
discovered through unethical means shouldn't be used, and I
tend to agree, but maybe the folk of New Earth don't, so it
was a thousand years before it was *re*-discovered and made
public.

> Which reminds me, how could they speak? They're clones -
> they haven't been taught to speak. Hell, they haven't been
> taught how to walk or climb ladders, so how do they know to
> do it?! In fact what's with the needing a touch: they
> literally shouldn't know what they're missing!

As far as the needing a touch goes, I can accept instinct for
that.

> Tennant is immediately fab as the Doctor - and here's a

> Scottish Doc who *can* do funny and do anger. Can't we CG
> him over Sylv throughout the McCoy era? Having said that,
> I'm not sure his Kenneth Williams impression was up to
> snuff...

I wasn't sure about that either. Although I'm not sure how
much worse than Billie's fantastic portrayal he actually was;
attempting to "do" Cassandra[1] while being a bloke is
inevitably going to look a bit overdone.

(Incidentally, why was she so amazed at being in a male body?
I thought the M&V book said she was born Brian something.)

[1]Stop whatever you're thinking right now, people...

MHW

unread,
Apr 21, 2006, 6:18:14 PM4/21/06
to
"Daibhid Ceanaideach" <daibhidc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Xns97ACE263...@130.133.1.4...

Spoilage

a

a

a

a

a

a

a

a

a

a

a

a

a

a

a

a

a


> (Incidentally, why was she so amazed at being in a male body?
> I thought the M&V book said she was born Brian something.)

She was born male according to 'End of the World' and the 'M&V' book.

Near the beginning of the episode, after the 'hilarious' chav comment, she's
full of her new body: 'bouncy castle', 'nice bumper', etc. When she's the
Doctor, she's partly commenting on his extra (Gallifreyan) bits, but
probably also on his male stuff. The obvious answer to your question is:
it's been so long since she was physically male or female, that both jumps
are a big experience for her. Come to think of it, so are her jumps to the
plague zombie and Chip. Maybe that's what overwhelmed her in the end.

Or maybe it didn't...

--
MHW

Brax

unread,
Apr 22, 2006, 3:58:12 AM4/22/06
to
Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:

Yay! You've got to watch it at last! 9pm BBC3 last night, yeah?

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know what you mean about Cassandra's surprise about being male, that
struck me as odd too. Also, surely Cassandra knew Rose was a chav before
she moved in.

Brax

Brax

unread,
Apr 22, 2006, 6:21:51 AM4/22/06
to

> Near the beginning of the episode, after the 'hilarious' chav comment, she's

> full of her new body: 'bouncy castle', 'nice bumper', etc. When she's the
> Doctor, she's partly commenting on his extra (Gallifreyan) bits, but
> probably also on his male stuff. The obvious answer to your question is:
> it's been so long since she was physically male or female, that both jumps
> are a big experience for her. Come to think of it, so are her jumps to the
> plague zombie and Chip. Maybe that's what overwhelmed her in the end.

I've come to think of Chip's pure and simple love and devotion to
Cassandra that overcame her on her jump to Chip's body and allowed her
to accept her death. She'd probably have overcome that if she'd lived in
Chip's body a little longer, but at least she died happy.

Brax

David A McIntee

unread,
Apr 22, 2006, 6:23:51 AM4/22/06
to
"Daibhid Ceanaideach" <daibhidc...@aol.com> wrote
> I'm far too cynical, I was *so* expecting a swirly mist to
> pass between Chip and the younger Cassandra...

Might have worked that way just after the camera cut to the Doc and Rose,
cos RTD says Cassandra will return...

--
Redemption 07 - B5 B7 and Beyond, 23-25 February 2007.
http://www.smof.com/redemption

http://lonemagpie.livejournal.com

Neil Sullivan

unread,
Apr 22, 2006, 8:09:22 PM4/22/06
to
"Daibhid Ceanaideach" <daibhidc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Xns97ACE263...@130.133.1.4...
spoiler space...
> 1
> 2
> 3
> 4
> 5
> 6
> 7
> > Just a little
> 8
> 9
> 10
> 11
> 12
> 13
> 14
> 15
>
>
> > And what about the whole "the cure for that won't
> > be invented for another thousand years" stuff, when it
> > ended up simply being that they *had* invented it -
> > presumably by using the "lab rat" zombies a source of
> > vaccines.
>
> Yeah, but they "shouldn't" have; just like the Satelite Five
> thing, I assume.

But regardless of whether they 'should' have developed the cure, they did.
So that's a part of history and the Doctor shouldn't be expecting the cure
to be a thousand years off. In the case of Satellite 5, the changes had been
introduced by the Daleks, i.e. other time travellers, so it makes sense that
their influence actually changed the established history which the Doctor
expected.

> OTOH, we don't know what happened afterwards. ISTR your
> Voyager book was disparaging about the idea that medicine
> discovered through unethical means shouldn't be used, and I
> tend to agree, but maybe the folk of New Earth don't, so it
> was a thousand years before it was *re*-discovered and made
> public.

Now that makes sense!

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