Genie contradiction in Aladdin
Frank Pilhofer
In the cave, Genie helps Al out of the cave without him wishing for it.
Then at the bottom of the sea, he says, "I can't help you unless you
make a wish" -- but he's done so before!
Oh well :-) Have fun,
Frank
--
+ Frank Pilhofer f...@informatik.uni-frankfurt.de +
| Darmstaedter Str. 22 http://www.uni-frankfurt.de/~fp/ |
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Wednesday
Paul Gettle <pge...@hubcap.clemson.edu> wrote:
>>Frank Pilhofer (f...@zeus.rbi.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de) did spew forth to USENET:
>
>>: Just watched the disc yesterday while ironing my laundry ...
>>: In the cave, Genie helps Al out of the cave without him wishing for it.
>>: Then at the bottom of the sea, he says, "I can't help you unless you
>>: make a wish" -- but he's done so before!
>
>pet tiger can have a piece of fabric in its mouth that ovbiously came from
>the unwanted suiter's underwear, while said suiter only has a rip in his
>pants, but not his boxers, I can also swallow a Genie who has temporary
>lapses of memory.
Ah, but you see, Disney buttocks are made of fabric.
See, my whole problem with this whole Aladdin brouhaha is that major
blip between cinematic release and sequel -- is it just me, or did he
LOSE those damn bracelets??
http://www.tezcat.com/~wednsday/ - - - - - - - w e d n e s d a y @tezcat.com
i won't watch any genie movie that doesn't have robin williams in it though!
Paul Gettle
>Ah, but you see, Disney buttocks are made of fabric.
>See, my whole problem with this whole Aladdin brouhaha is that major
>blip between cinematic release and sequel -- is it just me, or did he
>LOSE those damn bracelets??
>http://www.tezcat.com/~wednsday/ - - - - - - - w e d n e s d a y @tezcat.com
>i won't watch any genie movie that doesn't have robin williams in it though!
Ah, there's a reason for that... the artists put the shackles back on him,
because he's not as visually interesting w/o them. Something about needing
color contrast to add to the visual impact of the character.... or some such.
-- Paul Gettle (pge...@hubcap.clemson.edu)
Even Walt's?
Stephanie da Silva
Paul Gettle <pge...@hubcap.clemson.edu> wrote:
>because he's not as visually interesting w/o them. Something about needing
>color contrast to add to the visual impact of the character....
No, Genie wears them to make a fashion statement.
The BOB(c)
: Just watched the disc yesterday while ironing my laundry ...
: In the cave, Genie helps Al out of the cave without him wishing for it.
: Then at the bottom of the sea, he says, "I can't help you unless you
: make a wish" -- but he's done so before!
The Genie has no sense of morality, rather like his commercial sponsors.
The BOB(c)
The Most Dangerous Man on USENET
Paul Gettle
>: Just watched the disc yesterday while ironing my laundry ...
>: In the cave, Genie helps Al out of the cave without him wishing for it.
>: Then at the bottom of the sea, he says, "I can't help you unless you
>: make a wish" -- but he's done so before!
Yeah yeah, we know the movie lacks consistancy. After all, if Jasmine's
pet tiger can have a piece of fabric in its mouth that ovbiously came from
the unwanted suiter's underwear, while said suiter only has a rip in his
pants, but not his boxers, I can also swallow a Genie who has temporary
lapses of memory.
-- Paul Gettle (pge...@hubcap.clemson.edu)
Chin Chee Kian
: wedn...@tezcat.com (Wednesday) writes:
: >Ah, but you see, Disney buttocks are made of fabric.
: >See, my whole problem with this whole Aladdin brouhaha is that major
: >blip between cinematic release and sequel -- is it just me, or did he
: >LOSE those damn bracelets??
: >http://www.tezcat.com/~wednsday/ - - - - - - - w e d n e s d a y @tezcat.com
: >i won't watch any genie movie that doesn't have robin williams in it though!
Now, the reason he doesn't have those golden bracelets is because he
is no longer a genie trapped in a lamp!
Chin Chee Kian
: Frank Pilhofer (f...@zeus.rbi.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de) did spew forth to USENET:
: : Just watched the disc yesterday while ironing my laundry ...
: : In the cave, Genie helps Al out of the cave without him wishing for it.
: : Then at the bottom of the sea, he says, "I can't help you unless you
: : make a wish" -- but he's done so before!
: The Genie has no sense of morality, rather like his commercial sponsors.
The reason is because aladdin tricked the genie into giving him a
freebie by daring him !:) Watch carefuly......
L.A.
: Just watched the disc yesterday while ironing my laundry ...
: In the cave, Genie helps Al out of the cave without him wishing for it.
: Then at the bottom of the sea, he says, "I can't help you unless you
: make a wish" -- but he's done so before!
: Oh well :-) Have fun,
: Frank
Well, he also said "No more freebies." and he did wind up helping him
anyway, even though Al never really said anything one way or the other.
What I thought was strange (though it furthered the story) was that the
Genie could have used that wish that he made Aladdin waste, to free
himself (but dramatics made more sense the other way).
FDC Walkaround Jafar
sun...@gate.net
Alex Kruppa
> [Aladdin inconsistencies]
> Ah, but you see, Disney buttocks are made of fabric.
> See, my whole problem with this whole Aladdin brouhaha is that
> major blip between cinematic release and sequel -- is it just me,
> or did he LOSE those damn bracelets??
After more than one million years with them, he must have felt pretty
naked without, so he summoned a pair of fashionable but powerless
replacements.
Another thing: Why didn't Al wish to be a prince, and then let Jasmin
or the Sultan set Genie free? They both still had three wishes!
And why wasn't Al's un-princing automagically undone like the other
evil spells of Jafar?
Ciao,
Alex.
Roger Kim
Gettle) wrote:
> wedn...@tezcat.com (Wednesday) writes:
>
> >Ah, but you see, Disney buttocks are made of fabric.
> >See, my whole problem with this whole Aladdin brouhaha is that major
> >blip between cinematic release and sequel -- is it just me, or did he
> >LOSE those damn bracelets??
>
> >http://www.tezcat.com/~wednsday/ - - - - - - - w e d n e s d a y @tezcat.com
> >i won't watch any genie movie that doesn't have robin williams in it though!
>
> Ah, there's a reason for that... the artists put the shackles back on him,
> because he's not as visually interesting w/o them. Something about needing
> color contrast to add to the visual impact of the character.... or some such.
And the way they explain it in RoJ goes something like this:
Aladdin: Genie, why do you still have the shackles on?
Genie: Kid, these aren't shackles...these are a fashion statement!
=)
Roger Kim
FDC Aladdin (M/W/Sat)
FDC Prince Eric
FDC Symphony Orchestra Violinist
_____________________________________________________________________
Address: 1835 Hinman Ave. #312
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TEL: (708) 332-6791
E-Mail: roge...@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
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they shall walk, and not grow faint."
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Roger Kim
f...@zeus.rbi.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de (Frank Pilhofer) wrote:
> Just watched the disc yesterday while ironing my laundry ...
> In the cave, Genie helps Al out of the cave without him wishing for it.
> Then at the bottom of the sea, he says, "I can't help you unless you
> make a wish" -- but he's done so before!
Well, not exactly...he was tricked into helping Al the first time around...
And besides, he's starting to like Aladdin...so he bends the rules a bit...
Christian A Wedge
in .. by Alex Kru...@sea.muc.de
> evil spells of Jafar?
Aha! As nowhere near an expert on magic, but a great fan of it in every
role-playing-game I've played, I'm going to express my opinion and
explaination of this. You see, when Jafar "un-princed" Aladdin, he was
disspelling magic, removing the spell that was already put on him. All
of Jafar's other spells were disspelled because they were creating new
magic, and not removing prexisting magic. A spell doesn't "respell" and
you can't disspell a disspelling of magic, follow me? Probably not, but
magic being the magical thing it is, it's kind of hard to explain.
-Christian Wedge (cw...@andrew.cmu.edu)
http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~cw4g/
"I say what it occurs to me to say when I think I hear people say things.
More I cannot say." -The Ruler of the Galaxy
Wendy W Lee
In article <rogerkim-230...@random-numbers.acns.nwu.edu>, Roger Kim (roge...@casbah.acns.nwu.edu) writes:
>In article <pgettle.798541598@hubcap>, pge...@hubcap.clemson.edu (Paul
>Gettle) wrote:
>
>> wedn...@tezcat.com (Wednesday) writes:
>> >http://www.tezcat.com/~wednsday/ - - - - - - - w e d n e s d a y @tezcat.com
>> >i won't watch any genie movie that doesn't have robin williams in it though!
Ah, well. Your loss. Too bad, too, cuz Dan Castelleneta does a wonderful
job as the Genie.
>> Ah, there's a reason for that... the artists put the shackles back on him,
>> because he's not as visually interesting w/o them. Something about needing
>> color contrast to add to the visual impact of the character.... or some such.
>
>And the way they explain it in RoJ goes something like this:
>
>Aladdin: Genie, why do you still have the shackles on?
>Genie: Kid, these aren't shackles...these are a fashion statement!
There is no explanation in ROJ; there was one, but I believe it got cut.
The line did get reused in THE SECRET OF DAGGER ROCK. Mozenrath has just
apprehended the Genie and says something like "My magical captives have to
obey a few ground rules. I don't put up with obstanate servants." Genie
pops up, pokes him and says, "I'm a free genie, bub. The only thing I'm
a slave to is--FASHION!! <extends wrist to indicate shackle> These
things go great with a tasteful string of pearls."
--
Wendy W Lee, jaz...@tanis.win.net | Mozenrath: "An odd breed of sprite..."
The Indiana Jones of allusions | Genie-Sprite: "Ah, we're from Ohio."
Alan Hamilton
>Another thing: Why didn't Al wish to be a prince, and then let Jasmin
>or the Sultan set Genie free? They both still had three wishes!
>evil spells of Jafar?
Well, that was part of the gotta-be-me moral to the story. He's Aladdin, and
he was really uncomfortable as Prince Ali. Note that in the TV series he
still mostly runs around barefoot and shirtless, apart from formal occasions.
He does dress up a little bit in the last few episodes of the first season,
with shoes, a new striped waist wrap (whatever its called) and a gold-trimmed
vest.
/
/ * / Alan Hamilton
* * al...@primenet.com
Roger Kim
> In article <rogerkim-230...@random-numbers.acns.nwu.edu>,
Roger Kim (roge...@casbah.acns.nwu.edu) writes:
> >And the way they explain it in RoJ goes something like this:
> >
> >Aladdin: Genie, why do you still have the shackles on?
> >Genie: Kid, these aren't shackles...these are a fashion statement!
>
> There is no explanation in ROJ; there was one, but I believe it got cut.
Are you sure about this? I distinctly remember that line (or something
very similar - I don't own RoJ myself =) ) because the Disney fanatics
here at NU were discussing it before we saw it... Anyone want to back me
up on this one?
Susan E Clark
he tricked the Genie. He said he bet he couldn't do it, and in doing so,
the genie had to prove to Aladin that he could.
Alex Kruppa
> Excerpts from netnews.rec.arts.disney: 23-Apr-95 Re: Genie
> contradiction in .. by Alex Kru...@sea.muc.de
> > other evil spells of Jafar?
>
> every role-playing-game I've played, I'm going to express my
> opinion and explaination of this. You see, when Jafar "un-princed"
> Aladdin, he was disspelling magic, removing the spell that was
> already put on him. All of Jafar's other spells were disspelled
> because they were creating new magic, and not removing prexisting
> magic. A spell doesn't "respell" and you can't disspell a
> disspelling of magic, follow me? Probably not, but magic being the
> magical thing it is, it's kind of hard to explain.
Yeees, buuuut: Al becoming a prince wasn't mere magic, it was a
Genie's wish! When a Genie grants a wish, it becomes *true*, not some
sort of magical illusion or temporary transformation. Al was a true
price, through and through, and unless Jafar had a spell like
Undo Genie-Wishes For Good in some high-level magic circle, Al should
have returned to his true self, which was being a prince, after
Jafar's spell wore off. It would have been entirely different if Jafar
had asked the Genie to make Al a commoner.
Ciao,
Alex.
## CrossPoint v3.02 ##
Stephanie da Silva
Roger Kim <roge...@casbah.acns.nwu.edu> wrote:
>In article <7...@tanis.win.net>, jaz...@tanis.win.net (Wendy W Lee) wrote:
>> In article <rogerkim-230...@random-numbers.acns.nwu.edu>,
>Roger Kim (roge...@casbah.acns.nwu.edu) writes:
>> >And the way they explain it in RoJ goes something like this:
>>
>
>Are you sure about this? I distinctly remember that line (or something
>very similar - I don't own RoJ myself =) ) because the Disney fanatics
>here at NU were discussing it before we saw it...
Wendy's correct, the line is not in the movie Return of Jafar.
RHIANNON DAVIES
>On Monday the 24.04.95 at 01:37, cw4g+ wrote
>> Aladdin, he was disspelling magic, removing the spell that was
>> already put on him. All of Jafar's other spells were disspelled
>> because they were creating new magic, and not removing prexisting
>> magic. A spell doesn't "respell" and you can't disspell a
>> disspelling of magic, follow me?
>Yeees, buuuut: Al becoming a prince wasn't mere magic, it was a
>Genie's wish! When a Genie grants a wish, it becomes *true*, not some
>sort of magical illusion or temporary transformation. Al was a true
>price, through and through, and unless Jafar had a spell like
>Undo Genie-Wishes For Good in some high-level magic circle, Al should
>have returned to his true self, which was being a prince, after
>Jafar's spell wore off. It would have been entirely different if Jafar
>had asked the Genie to make Al a commoner.
Wasn't Jafar's "un-princing" *also* a wish? Then it became true....no?
Meredith L. Patterson
FDC and FDCMuck Goliath
I'm no continuity expert, but...
Roger Kim
> Yeees, buuuut: Al becoming a prince wasn't mere magic, it was a
> Genie's wish! When a Genie grants a wish, it becomes *true*, not some
> sort of magical illusion or temporary transformation. Al was a true
> price, through and through, and unless Jafar had a spell like
> Undo Genie-Wishes For Good in some high-level magic circle, Al should
> have returned to his true self, which was being a prince, after
> Jafar's spell wore off. It would have been entirely different if Jafar
> had asked the Genie to make Al a commoner.
Ah...but that's the point..."Al should have returned to his true self",
which was >not< a prince, but a street rat. Jafar's magic is real as
well, and things become "true" when he used it as such. Since Jafar was
"the most powerful sorceror in the world" at this point, it can be
asssumed that he had sufficient power to dispell even the Genie's spell.
And in most theories of "magic", dispelling a spell requires that the
original spell be recast, even after the dispelling spell is nullified...
Just my opinions, of course...
And I don't >really< believe in magic...
Christian A Wedge
> > contradiction in .. by Alex Kru...@sea.muc.de
> > > And why wasn't Al's un-princing automagically undone like the
> > > other evil spells of Jafar?
> >
> > Aha! As nowhere near an expert on magic, but a great fan of it in
> > every role-playing-game I've played, I'm going to express my
> > Aladdin, he was disspelling magic, removing the spell that was
> > already put on him. All of Jafar's other spells were disspelled
> > because they were creating new magic, and not removing prexisting
> > magic. A spell doesn't "respell" and you can't disspell a
> > magical thing it is, it's kind of hard to explain.
>
> Genie's wish! When a Genie grants a wish, it becomes *true*, not some
> sort of magical illusion or temporary transformation. Al was a true
> price, through and through, and unless Jafar had a spell like
> Undo Genie-Wishes For Good in some high-level magic circle, Al should
> have returned to his true self, which was being a prince, after
> Jafar's spell wore off. It would have been entirely different if Jafar
> had asked the Genie to make Al a commoner.
Well, it's magic. Furthermore, it's cartoon magic. You can argue that
a Genie's wish comes true my magical alteration that can still be
dispelled by a powerful enough dispell spell. Of course, you could
argue that isn't so at all.
I guess all you can do is accept it happened and it's magic. With
magic, anything can happen.
Jens A. Hage
: In article <5kVig...@sea.muc.de>, fi...@sea.muc.de (Alex Kruppa) writes...
: >On Monday the 24.04.95 at 01:37, cw4g+ wrote
: >> You see, when Jafar "un-princed"
: >> Aladdin, he was disspelling magic, removing the spell that was
: >> already put on him. All of Jafar's other spells were disspelled
: >> because they were creating new magic, and not removing prexisting
: >> magic. A spell doesn't "respell" and you can't disspell a
: >> disspelling of magic, follow me?
: >Yeees, buuuut: Al becoming a prince wasn't mere magic, it was a
: >Genie's wish! When a Genie grants a wish, it becomes *true*, not some
: >sort of magical illusion or temporary transformation. Al was a true
: >price, through and through, and unless Jafar had a spell like
: >Undo Genie-Wishes For Good in some high-level magic circle, Al should
: >have returned to his true self, which was being a prince, after
: >Jafar's spell wore off. It would have been entirely different if Jafar
: >had asked the Genie to make Al a commoner.
: Wasn't Jafar's "un-princing" *also* a wish? Then it became true....no?
The way I always saw it was that Aladdin *was* still a prince at the end o'
the movie. Otherwise he couldn't have married Jasmine. I thought the whole
point of the movie was that you didn't have to be a prince as long as you
acted like one. Therefore, all the Genie did to "make Al a prince" was add
some trappings so everyone could see what was already there. At the end of the
movie, he just wasn't *dressed* like a prince.
'Course, I still despise the little rugrat. ;P
Jens "But Jasmine..." Hage
Alex Kruppa
> Wasn't Jafar's "un-princing" *also* a wish? Then it became
> true....no?
No. Jafar wished to be sultan, then a sorcerer, then a genie. Jafar un-
princing Al was the work of his magic, this sorcerors staff, you know.
Robert Cook
> Just watched the disc yesterday while ironing my laundry ...
>In the cave, Genie helps Al out of the cave without him wishing for it.
>Then at the bottom of the sea, he says, "I can't help you unless you
>make a wish" -- but he's done so before!
And he does so again. I didn't hear Aladdin wish for Genie to save
him, either. His head bobbed and Genie said "I'll take that as a
yes!" Genie "cheated," although I think that time Aladdin was
charged a wish for it.
I think that the rules a genie has to follow aren't that clear cut,
except for the three limitations Genie had mentioned. He can do
anything he wants for Aladdin--except turn against him while Al's
in control (getting mad and giving Al a juicy raspberry don't count).
When Genie says he can only do something if Al wishes for it, it's
just a "soft rule" that genies follow, so that they aren't pushovers.
There's a conflict between his favor for Al and being a "professional"
genie, so to speak. :-) Having followed certain guidelines for eons
made him reluctant to bend the rules, even when Al was in danger.
- Robert Cook
Tim & Christine Morgan
says...
>The way I always saw it was that Aladdin *was* still a prince at the end o'
>the movie. Otherwise he couldn't have married Jasmine. I thought the whole
>point of the movie was that you didn't have to be a prince as long as you
>acted like one. Therefore, all the Genie did to "make Al a prince" was add
>some trappings so everyone could see what was already there. At the end of
the
>movie, he just wasn't *dressed* like a prince.
>
>'Course, I still despise the little rugrat. ;P
>
>Jens "But Jasmine..." Hage
As I recall, the sultan changed the law and decided that the
princess could marry whoever "she deems worthy," so she chose Aladdin. Upon
marrying her, he would I suppose technically become a prince, and would
still be the next sultan, but he still does not have the blood royale.
Besides, what does it mean to "act like a prince"? Prince Ahkmed
(sp?), he of the heart-patterned boxers, was snooty, stuffy, and
arrogant.Other Disney princes (Eric and Philip, for instance) seemed to
share traits of honor and nobility. Aladdin, whose entire relationship with
Jasmine was based on deception and teen rebellion, sure doesn't have any of
the above princely qualities.
Christine
--
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> Tim Morgan <> "...Cynics regarded everybody as equally <
> ve...@eskimo.com <> corrupt...Idealists regarded everybody <
> <> as equally corrupt, except themselves." <
> <> Robert Anton Wilson <
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Robert Cook
>In article <5kVig...@sea.muc.de>, fi...@sea.muc.de (Alex Kruppa) writes...
>>On Monday the 24.04.95 at 01:37, cw4g+ wrote
>>> You see, when Jafar "un-princed"
>>> Aladdin, he was disspelling magic, removing the spell that was
>>> already put on him. All of Jafar's other spells were disspelled
>>> because they were creating new magic, and not removing prexisting
>>> magic. A spell doesn't "respell" and you can't disspell a
>>> disspelling of magic, follow me?
I'm not sure how you came up with these rules, but I do know the
obvious. Genie really just made Aladdin look like a prince.
Whether he was a "prince" in spirit doesn't matter, since he
couldn't marry Jasmine unless everyone believed he was a real
prince. He might have wished for it, but Genie apparently did not
deliver. At Jasmine's balcony, Genie had told Aladdin to "bee
yourself." Before that, Aladdin asked "So how do I look?" and
Genie answered "Like a prince." Doesn't seem like he ever really
was a prince. I mean, if Genie turned Aladdin into a prince, then
he wouldn't have to lie and pretend.
>>Yeees, buuuut: Al becoming a prince wasn't mere magic, it was a
>>Genie's wish! When a Genie grants a wish, it becomes *true*, not some
>>sort of magical illusion or temporary transformation.
Not this Genie. To really make Aladdin into a prince, Genie would
have had to change the history of the region in substantial ways.
>>Al was a true
>>price, through and through, and unless Jafar had a spell like
>>Undo Genie-Wishes For Good in some high-level magic circle,
Magic "circles"...oh...role-playing games.... :-)
>>Al should
>>have returned to his true self, which was being a prince, after
>>Jafar's spell wore off. It would have been entirely different if Jafar
>>had asked the Genie to make Al a commoner.
Genie put some clothes on Al and gave him all those servants and
flunkies--it was no problem for Jafar to exchange those clothes for
Al's old peasant outfit. In fact, even if Al was a real prince
(which he wasn't), his princely clothing wouldn't necessarily
reappear after Jafar's spell wore off.
>Wasn't Jafar's "un-princing" *also* a wish? Then it became true....no?
Nope, Jafar made the best wish anyone could have made: he wished to
have great magical ability of his own. He didn't really need the
Genie after that for much of anything.
- Robert Cook
Rusty W. Spell
elephants make you a prince? Wouldn't you actually have to go back and
change Alladin's lineage in order to do that?
Rusty W. Spell
Connie K. Cho
referring to the shackle when he said the line in "Dagger Rock". It
wasn't exactly clear in the episode, which makes sense if it had been a
transplanted scene.
--
Connie K. Cho eli...@MBNet.mb.ca
http://www.mbnet.mb.ca:80/~elione/
Grizabella
>jaz...@tanis.win.net (Wendy W Lee) wrote:
>Roger Kim (roge...@casbah.acns.nwu.edu) writes:
>> >And the way they explain it in RoJ goes something like this:
>> >
>> >Genie: Kid, these aren't shackles...these are a fashion statement!
>>
>
>Are you sure about this? I distinctly remember that line (or something
>very similar - I don't own RoJ myself =) ) because the Disney fanatics
>up on this one?
>
I could have sworn you were correct, Roger, because I remembered the
line as well, and I have only seen 2 episodes of the TV show...
however, I watched RoJ today, and it wasn't there, so I suppose I
just happened to see the one episode of the TV show in which it was
mentioned. *shrug*
Meows and kisses from the GlamourCat...
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Robert Cook
>
[stuff about Aladdin being a prince]
>
>The way I always saw it was that Aladdin *was* still a prince at the end o'
>the movie. Otherwise he couldn't have married Jasmine.
He could marry Jasmine because the Sultan changed the law, saying:
"From this day forth, the princess may marry whomever she wishes!"
(might not be exact) Also, Aladdin had been turned back into
regular-guy-Al, and before he was freed Genie assumed that Aladdin's
final wish would be to become a prince again.
>I thought the whole
>point of the movie was that you didn't have to be a prince as long as you
>acted like one.
The main point of the movie was to be yourself--that you shouldn't
pretend to be someone or something you are not, and then have to lie
about it. I think that this point is helped along by the fact that
even Genie, for all his Phenomenal Cosmic Power (PCP...yikes! :-) ),
couldn't turn Aladdin into something he was not: a prince.
Furthermore, Al is a streetrat by trade (or should I say "steal"?),
but he is *Aladdin* first and foremost.
>Therefore, all the Genie did to "make Al a prince" was add
>some trappings so everyone could see what was already there. At the end of the
>movie, he just wasn't *dressed* like a prince.
In this movie, though, being a prince doesn't represent fine
qualities of character (hence "diamond in the rough"). In fact,
princes--real princes in the film--are generally people to be
despised in the scope of this story, as Jasmine would tell you.
Aladdin wasn't one of those "swaggering peacocks," although he
pretended to be one.
- Robert Cook
Alex Kruppa
> Ah...but that's the point..."Al should have returned to his true
> self", which was >not< a prince, but a street rat.
No, Al was a prince. That he wasn't happy with it is a different
issue. After all, thats what all the Genie business is about, making
wishes come true.
> Jafar's magic
> is real as well, and things become "true" when he used it as such.
> Since Jafar was "the most powerful sorceror in the world" at this
> point, it can be asssumed that he had sufficient power to dispell
> even the Genie's spell.
Then what was all the 'just second best' hysteria about? I can still
hear Jafar say '..his powers exceed even mine!'
From what I remeber about magic in role-playing games / novels, a
spell and it's dis-spell were usually in the same circle or at least
of similar demand. If Jafar could dispell a wish a genie granted, he
cannot have been so much inferior to a real genie. But he obviously
were, or his wish to be a genie wouldn't have made much sense.
> And in most theories of "magic", dispelling a spell requires that
> the original spell be recast, even after the dispelling spell is
> nullified...
True. But I still think genie wishes aren't mere magic.
And I faintly remember a version of Aladin were even a genie couldn't
undo a wish another genie granted.
Well, for me it's still a plot hole, plain and simple.
Ciao,
Alex.
who actually enjoys talking about things bare of any relation to
reality with the greatest sincerity
## CrossPoint v3.02 ##
Stephanie da Silva
Connie K. Cho <eli...@MBNet.mb.ca> wrote:
>Hmph, until this discussion I didn't know that Genie was actually
>referring to the shackle when he said the line in "Dagger Rock". It
>wasn't exactly clear in the episode, which makes sense if it had been a
>transplanted scene.
I thought the line in Dagger Rock was poorly executed, too. It was
alledgedly to replace the "Slave to fashion" line that got cut from
RoJ.