"Dixie" Landings struck by PC
Abercrombie
"Dixie" is now as offensive to some as the "N" word, and probably why the word
was dropped by Disney.
I wonder how long it will be before the word "South" is struck from our
vocabulary? Of couse, soon afterward will the the word "America" - which to
PCers embodies all that is evil in the world.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
Some folks in Alabama are so offended by the phrase "Heart of Dixie" - which
they say glorifies the slave days - on their state license plates, that they
are obscuring parts of the plates to cover the word "Dixie," reports the
Atlanta Journal Constitution
<http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/news/0502/06dixie.html>.
Karen Taylor, a 44-year-old native of the state, said she placed tape over the
word on her license plate. She views the plate as kind of an official
consecration of a slave-holding Confederate past.
"'Dixie' was used as a fight song for the Confederacy, to keep things the way
they are - to keep the South in a slave-holding capacity," Taylor says. "Any
black person would be offended by that...."
The debate is an old one, the paper reports, but flared up again recently when
Taylor received a traffic ticket for obscuring her license plate and because
redesigned plates issued since January have all-but obscured the phrase.
Alabama 'Dixie' car tag spurs heartfelt cover-up
By DREW JUBERA
Atlanta Journal-Constitution Staff Writer
Montgomery -- The latest dust-up in the South's civil war over symbols from its
knotty past is unfolding these days on an oddly everyday battlefield: license
plates.
David Bundy / Montgomery Advertiser
Karen Taylor shows where she covered the word 'Dixie' on her Alabama license
plate, for which she received a citation from police.
This most recent skirmish began 10 years ago as a quiet, personal protest.
Karen Taylor, crouched behind her car to apply a new tag decal, impulsively
took four leftover strips of tape and slapped them over the word "Dixie."
As an African-American and native Alabamian, Taylor, 44, had always found
offensive the tag's state-mandated slogan "Heart of Dixie." She viewed it, as
do others, as a kind of official consecration of a slave-holding Confederate
past.
Taylor's act of private defiance became a public flashpoint last month, when a
Montgomery police officer pulled her over for speeding, and then tacked on
another ticket for obscuring "Dixie." The ticket highlighted an issue that has
long hovered for many Alabamians just below the cultural radar.
Is "Heart of Dixie" a quaint, folksy homage to the state's long and proud
heritage? Or a wistful relic of a racist history that embraced both slavery and
segregation?
For Taylor, who teaches criminal law at historically black Alabama State
University, the answer is simple.
"'Dixie' was used as a fight song for the Confederacy, to keep things the way
they are -- to keep the South in a slave-holding capacity," she says. "Any
black person would be offended by that...."
Taylor has taught a class that included the 1977 U.S. Supreme Court decision
allowing a New Hampshire couple to cover that state's license-plate slogan,
"Live Free or Die," for religious reasons. The parallel with Alabama's "Dixie"
struck her, she says. "It occurred to me one day I had the right to cover it
up."
Some cover new tag
Though some supporters encouraged Taylor to take her case to its legal limit,
she plans on Tuesday to formally sign off on an agreement with the city to
dismiss the ticket for altering a license plate. She's already paid the $118
fine for driving 51 mph in a 35 mph zone.
But the incident has reinvigorated the debate over "Dixie's" nearly 50-year
home on Alabama's tags -- a debate that's becoming more widespread as new
plates, first issued in January, are distributed. A new design is rolled out
every five years.
The previous tag displayed "Heart of Dixie" in large script atop the tag, and
was readable from a couple car lengths away. On the new plates, the slogan is
squeezed inside a tiny red heart near the end of the state's name. It's about
as easy to read from another car as the sayings on those little Valentine's Day
candy hearts.
Atop the tag now: "Stars Fell On," from the 1934 song "Stars Fell on Alabama,"
recorded in the 1980s by Mobile native Jimmy Buffett. He warbled it at the 1999
inauguration of Gov. Don Siegelman, also from Mobile.
The heart's downsizing has led some Alabamians who are resolutely proud of the
state's Confederate heritage to perform an act of protest much like Taylor's:
They're placing stickers across the top of their tags that read "Heart of
Dixie." State officials aren't aware of any resulting arrests.
"Reaction to the new plate has generally been positive," says Lewis Easterly,
an official with the Department of Revenue, the agency responsible for the
plate's design. "'Heart of Dixie' was intentionally de-emphasized -- I think
the administration was very sensitive to the issue. I can see where people find
it objectionable."
As for the counter-reaction to the incredibly shrinking "Dixie," Easterly adds,
"There are a minority of people out there against this being de-emphasized. I'm
not one of them."
Tepid reaction
The tag debate so far isn't as incendiary as the ones that have raged over
Confederate flags atop Southern state houses; Taylor says reaction to her
ticketing, while largely supportive, has been mostly tepid, even among many
Alabama State students. But elsewhere in the South, license plate flaps have
grown into major public issues and court cases.
For instance, in Virginia last week, a federal appeals court ruled that the
state's refusal to allow the Sons of Confederate Veterans to create a specialty
plate with the Confederate flag logo was discriminatory and violated the
group's right to free speech.
Similar rulings have been made in North Carolina and Maryland.
Alvin Holmes, an Alabama state representative from Montgomery who led the push
to remove the Confederate flag from the Capitol dome, in 1993, has introduced
bills to remove "Dixie."
"[Karen] Taylor's action points out how the 'Heart of Dixie' has insulted black
people and continues to insult black people."
-- State Rep. Alvin Holmes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
The slogan was made law for all tags in 1951. The all-white legislature's
motive is disputed.
Opponents argue the slogan's placement was a reaction against the civil rights
movement, much as opponents of the old Georgia flag say its Confederate
symbolism was added in defiance to court desegregation rulings.
Others, however, say "Heart of Dixie" was simply a tourist inducement, a
memorably down-home way to distinguish Alabama from the Southern states that
surround it.
Either way, only a legislative act can remove the heart and slogan now. A bill
was passed that allows specialty plates without the slogan, purchased for an
extra $50. So "Dixie" does not appear on the ASU specialty plate, for example,
or on the environmental tag.
Holmes says that still doesn't go far enough. He plans to introduce another
bill in January that would allow car owners to choose between two general tags,
one with "Dixie" and one without it, at no extra cost.
"[Karen] Taylor's action points out how the 'Heart of Dixie' has insulted black
people and continues to insult black people," Holmes says. "It keeps this issue
alive, and I'm going to keep it alive as long as 'Heart of Dixie' is on that
tag."
A plate for all
For Taylor, the issue remains personal. She'd like to see "Heart of Dixie" as
an option for those who want it, not a slogan she's forced to accept, unless
she pays for a specialty plate.
What she'd really like, however, is for the state to create a tag everyone in
Alabama can live with.
"Some people think my act of covering up 'Dixie' means I hate white people -- I
don't -- or that I'm anti-South. I love Alabama," she says. "The word 'Dixie'
is just part of a mind-set, and that mind-set has to change if this state is
going to progress into the 21st century."
"Then it really will be 'Alabama the Beautiful,'" she adds, "which is what the
tag should really say."
In the meantime, Taylor will receive her new tag -- the one with the teeny
heart -- in the fall. She plans to put tape over it.
fizzie
(Says the former California girl now proudly living in Dixie)
--Fizzie--
Jiromi
>Disney can jest kiss mah grits!
>
>(Says the former California girl now proudly living in Dixie)
I thought it was very amusing when I saw "Toy Story 2"-themed Dixie cups in the
supermarket.
Ronnie (TDC Iago)
Watch me on JEOPARDY! Thursday, 5/16/02.
Check your local listings for time & channel.
"This nightmare Jeopardy! version's a lot harder than the home version." -
Ellen DeGeneres at the Universe of Energy
John Brokaw
> supermarket<<
Which by the way would be very handy for drinking around the WS,
followed by a nightcap at Dixie Lan, uh, I mean Port Orleans
Riverside.
John
DVC 94
OKW 5/25-6/1
Watching the Jeopardy Queen Thursday, May 16 at 3:30 on Channel 11
in Houston.
"Jiromi" <tdc...@aol.comFeathers> wrote in message
news:20020513235512...@mb-fl.aol.com
> Fizzie wrote:
> >Disney can jest kiss mah grits!
> >
> >(Says the former California girl now proudly living in Dixie)
>
> .
>
>
>
> Ronnie (TDC Iago)
> Watch me on JEOPARDY! Thursday, 5/16/02.
> Check your local listings for time & channel.
> "This nightmare Jeopardy! version's a lot harder than the home version." -
> Ellen DeGeneres at the Universe of Energy
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Vox Humana
"Abercrombie" <bpot...@aol.commando> wrote in message
news:20020513231138...@mb-fd.aol.com...
> We've talked about this before, but here is the story of how the word
> "Dixie" is now as offensive to some as the "N" word, and probably why the
word
> was dropped by Disney.
> I wonder how long it will be before the word "South" is struck from
our
> vocabulary? Of couse, soon afterward will the the word "America" - which
to
> PCers embodies all that is evil in the world.
When the name change occurred I thought it was a bit strange. Because they
changed it to Port Orleans - Riverside I also think it is confusing. Prior
to the change I didn't realize that the name "Dixie" was offensive. I used
to live just off the Dixie Highway here in Cincinnati and didn't give a
second thought to that name. Never the less, if there are people who find
it offensive, then I can accept that. Just because something has been part
of our standard lexicon doesn't mean that it hasn't been offensive from the
start. Political correctness is just another name for civility, manners,
and etiquette. These are the lubricants of civilization and allow us to
glide by without unnecessary friction. They don't force you change your
beliefs. They just make life more bearable. If all it takes is name change
to correct a situation that a number of people found offensive, then why
not? It doesn't change the resort or negatively influence the guests'
experience. To rail against the name change is to deny the fact that the
term is offensive or that language evolves. When Disney changed the names
of the Poly buildings, it hardly got a mention. Change happens.
fizzie
used to when I was in high school.
--Fizzie--
Vox Humana
"fizzie" <dixielan...@aol.comdotcom> wrote in message
news:20020514104125...@mb-fg.aol.com...
There is no denying that it is a catchy tune. Never the less, "Dixie Land"
was written in 1860 Dan Decatur Emmett for the Bryants Minstrels and
considering the original lyrics and its association with a minstrel show,
one can see how that song could easily be seen as offensive to African
Americans. Here are the original lyrics. I suspect that there is some
meaning that is not obvious for contemporary readers. In any event a bunch
of white people in black face singing the following lyrics couldn't be
complimentary any circumstance that I can imagine. Its more or case at
laughing AT someone rather than laughing WITH them.
I wish I was in de land ob cotton,
Old times dar am not forgotten;
Look away! Look away! Look away! Dixie Land.
In Dixie Land whar I was born in,
Early on one frosty mornin,
Look away! Look away! Look away! Dixie Land.
Chorus:
Den I wish I was in Dixie, Hooray! Hooray!
In Dixie Land, I'll toke my stand,
To lib an die in Dixie,
Away, Away, Away down south in Dixie,
Away, Away, Away down south in Dixie.
Old Missus marry "Will-de-weaber,"
Willium was a gay deceiber;
Look away! Look away! Look away! Dixie Land.
But when he put his arm around 'er,
He smilled as fierce as a 'forty-pound'er.
Look away! Look away! Look away! Dixie Land.
Chorus:
His face was sharp as a butchers cleaber,
But dat did not seem to grieb'er;
Look away! Look away! Look away! Dixie Land.
Old Missus acted de foolish part,
And died for a man dat broke her heart.
Look away! Look away! Look away! Dixie Land.
Chorus:
Now here's a health to the next old Missus,
An all de galls dat want to kiss us;
Look away! Look away! Look away! Dixie Land.
But if you want to drive 'way sorrow,
Come an hear dis song tomorrow.
Look away! Look away! Look away! Dixie Land.
Chorus:
Dar's buck-wheat cakes an 'Ingen' batter,
Makes you fat or a little fatter;
Look away! Look away! Look away! Dixie Land.
Den hoe it down an scratch your grabble,
To Dixie land I'm bound to trabble.
Look away! Look away! Look away! Dixie Land.
Chorus:
Molly7737
just waiting for the day when Jesse decides to come down here and try to change
the name.
mic...@pipeline.com
wrote:
I agree with you for the most part, but thought you should know that
the word "Poly" is considered derogatory slang. I forget where I read
this, either Deb's site or the Tikiman's, but ever since, I've forced
myself to type Polynesian. (when I remember and am not in too big of
a hurry!)
MickeyC
36 days to go
Sue
> I agree with you for the most part, but thought you should know that
> the word "Poly" is considered derogatory slang. I forget where I read
> this, either Deb's site or the Tikiman's, but ever since, I've forced
> myself to type Polynesian. (when I remember and am not in too big of
> a hurry!)
> MickeyC
> 36 days to go
MickeyC - I read that too, and ever since I have been typing out
Polynesian too! It's on Deb's page http://wdwig.com/faq_poly.htm and it
says "Can I just call it the Poly for short? You shouldn't. In the
Polynesian islands, the term "Poly" is actually a racial slur, and
considered offensive to many people."
Sue
Jen
>vocabulary? Of couse, soon afterward will the the word "America" - which to
>PCers embodies all that is evil in the world.
>
I think the woman in the article speaks very eloquently and convincingly as to
why she would prefer not to have the word "Dixie" on her license plate, and how
her objection to the "Dixie" label doesn't diminish her love for Alabama. She
even makes it clear that she isn't even for banning the license plate, just for
providing an alternative for those who see the "Dixie" moniker as tied up with
the legacy of slavery. Worth a listen rather than a knee-jerk, anyway.
I'm not sure how you jump to the conclusion that the word "America" is next,
but hey, it's your world.
Jennifer
Brett Weiss
Wooley v. Maynard. There, Jehovah's Witnesses covered up the New Hampshire
license plate motto "Live Free or Die" and were criminally prosecuted. The
Court held that the state may not require someone to display a motto
offensive to their moral and religious beliefs.
The full case (it's pretty short) may be found at
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/wooley.html.
--
Brett
"Abercrombie" <bpot...@aol.commando> wrote in message
news:20020513231138...@mb-fd.aol.com...
fizzie
relative lack of attention received by today's misogynist, gangsta gloryifying,
profane, racist, negative rap lyrics.......which I would love to see printed
with the accent in which they are"sung").
--Fizzie--
Jen
>says "Can I just call it the Poly for short? You shouldn't. In the
>Polynesian islands, the term "Poly" is actually a racial slur, and
>considered offensive to many people."
Wow! Learn something new everyday. Now I guess I'll have to learn to spell
Polyneezhan. :)
Jen
Sue
Once you have your fingers trained, no need to know how to spell
Polynesian...your fingers just do it all ;)
Sue (Who'll be at the Polynesian in a few weeks!!!!!)
Steve Russo
> Pretty tame lyrics considering the hoopla this song attracts. (And the
> relative lack of attention received by today's misogynist, gangsta
gloryifying,
> profane, racist, negative rap lyrics.......which I would love to see
printed
> with the accent in which they are"sung").
Easy. Just check out the FreshPrincess posts in the Pit. What? It's gone?
Never mind.
Con1950Way
>word
>> was dropped by Disney.
>> I wonder how long it will be before the word "South" is struck from
>our
>> vocabulary?
Does that mean that "crackers" have to go next?
Doom and Gloomer Denise
>>
That's SALTINES to you. :)
Denise
fizzie
> >>
>
>That's SALTINES to you. :)
>
>Denise
Actually, no, it's crackros. (........sorry).
--Fizzie--
ParrotHead
Heck, I used to live on "OLD Dixie Highway" here in FL! If Dixie
doesn't offend folks, maybe Old Dixie will.
> Just because something has been part
> of our standard lexicon doesn't mean that it hasn't been offensive from the
> start.
And just because a handful of people find something offensive
doesn't mean a majority--or even CLOSE to a majority--of people agree
with them.
> Political correctness is just another name for civility, manners,
> and etiquette.
I disagree with that definition. The average person understand PC
to extend beyond common civility to the point of pandering to
"offense-sensitive" people who find offense around every corner.
> They just make life more bearable.
For some. But for those of us with common sense, they tend to make
life UNbearable.
> If all it takes is name change
> to correct a situation that a number of people found offensive, then why
> not?
Because it's idiotic to make these changes if only 5% (or even 10%
or 15%) of the population finds something offensive.
> When Disney changed the names of the Poly buildings, it hardly got a mention.
Perhaps because those name changes seemed followed a logical
process with which more of us can related.
Carol Kennedy
> The average person understand PC
> to extend beyond common civility to the point of pandering to
> "offense-sensitive" people who find offense around every corner.
You know, there's offense and then there's offense. I think there's a
difference, for example, between (1) taking offense at someone who uses a
word or phrase in good faith (let's use "handicapped person," because it's
one that involves my own family) even though *some*--by no means all--of the
people who might be so identified dislike the word, and (2) taking offense
at light-hearted and even approving use of a word that is intimately
associated with the enslavement, mutilation, torture, and murder of one's
ancestors--a word such as "Dixie" or "Holocaust" or "Hiroshima" or "Wounded
Knee." JMHO.
--
Carol Kennedy (TDC Pollo Grande, Speaker of Inadequate Spanish, and
Translator without Portfolio)
The Fabulous Disney Babe
>to the change I didn't realize that the name "Dixie" was offensive. I used
>to live just off the Dixie Highway here in Cincinnati and didn't give a
>second thought to that name. Never the less, if there are people who find
>it offensive, then I can accept that. Just because something has been part
>of our standard lexicon doesn't mean that it hasn't been offensive from the
>start. Political correctness is just another name for civility, manners,
>and etiquette. These are the lubricants of civilization and allow us to
>glide by without unnecessary friction. They don't force you change your
>beliefs. They just make life more bearable. If all it takes is name change
>to correct a situation that a number of people found offensive, then why
>not? It doesn't change the resort or negatively influence the guests'
>experience. To rail against the name change is to deny the fact that the
>term is offensive or that language evolves. When Disney changed the names
>of the Poly buildings, it hardly got a mention. Change happens.
>
>
Fab
http://www.(censored)
"If you're going to be an actor, go to college, so you'll be able to outsmart
the writers."~Hillary B. Smith
The Fabulous Disney Babe
>used to when I was in high school.
>
>--Fizzie--
>
Wonder how much you'd like it if you were on the other side of history?
Vox Humana
<mic...@pipeline.com> wrote in message
news:3ce14682...@news.pipeline.com...
>
> >
> I agree with you for the most part, but thought you should know that
> the word "Poly" is considered derogatory slang. I forget where I read
> this, either Deb's site or the Tikiman's, but ever since, I've forced
> myself to type Polynesian. (when I remember and am not in too big of
> a hurry!)
> MickeyC
> 36 days to go
Live and learn, Polynesian it is.
The Fabulous Disney Babe
> And just because a handful of people find something offensive
>doesn't mean a majority--or even CLOSE to a majority--of people agree
>with them.
At one time, a majority of people thought that black people were not as
intelligent as white people, nor that women should have any rights.
Just because more people believe the wrong thing doesn't make it right.
> I disagree with that definition. The average person understand PC
>to extend beyond common civility to the point of pandering to
>"offense-sensitive" people who find offense around every corner.
Until it's you, John. Until it's you.
For us, it's "me and every human I share the earth with". Insult my brother,
insult me as a fellow human.
>For some. But for those of us with common sense, they tend to make
>life UNbearable.
Back to the days when coloreds and wimmen knew their places!
>Because it's idiotic to make these changes if only 5% (or even 10%
>or 15%) of the population finds something offensive.
No, it's not.
> Perhaps because those name changes seemed followed a logical
>process with which more of us can related.
It's okay to change the names for arbitrary reasons, but not okay to stop
hurting someone. Got it. Thanks.
The Fabulous Disney Babe
>difference, for example, between (1) taking offense at someone who uses a
>word or phrase in good faith (let's use "handicapped person," because it's
>one that involves my own family) even though *some*--by no means all--of the
>people who might be so identified dislike the word, and (2) taking offense
>at light-hearted and even approving use of a word that is intimately
>associated with the enslavement, mutilation, torture, and murder of one's
>ancestors--a word such as "Dixie" or "Holocaust" or "Hiroshima" or "Wounded
>Knee." JMHO.
>
>--
>Carol Kennedy (TDC Pollo Grande, Speaker of Inadequate Spanish, and
>Translator without Portfolio)
Yes.
CoastalWader
>Willium was a gay deceiber;
Well Hell! There is the problem right there. It aint about slavery, it's
about GAYS!
Ban it, burn it....make it go away!
Kerry
same name....same bat channel
Barry L. Wallis
news:20020514220215...@mb-ba.aol.com...
[...]
> Back to the days when coloreds and wimmen knew their places!
What has always surprised me is the NAACP has never changed their name.
--
- Barry as TDC Sorcerer, Magical Manager of the Mysteriously Missing Main
Street Magic Shop
- Unofficial RADP Defender of DCA ( http://members.cox.net/barry.wallis )
- "Sorry Mr. Eisner" - Chernabog
fizzie
>
>Fab
>
and stylings..... each and every one deserving acknowledgement. New England,
the West, The Midwest, the South......Hispanics, Asians, Muslims... America is
diverse in culture, heritage, and history. It's very ironic that often in the
South children are taught tolerance for almost every culture but their own.
The deep south is a land settled by generations of Scots and Irish (among
others) who fled tyranny, hardship, and intolerance in their homelands. I
think they would agree that banning language and literature because you don't
like certain words or ideologies is much more dangerous and inherently evil
than words could ever be.
--Fizzie--
The Fabulous Disney Babe
>and stylings..... each and every one deserving acknowledgement. New
>England,
>the West, The Midwest, the South......Hispanics, Asians, Muslims... America
>is
>diverse in culture, heritage, and history. It's very ironic that often in
>the
>South children are taught tolerance for almost every culture but their own.
You don't think the culture of owning, torturing and killing people is
something to be ashamed of?
fizzie
>>used to when I was in high school.
>>
>>--Fizzie--
>>
>
>Wonder how much you'd like it if you were on the other side of history?
>Fab
Honestly not being mean spirited, Fab, but you don't have a clue what my
history is. I just don't like PC when it becomes censorship.
--Fizzie--
fizzie
>You don't think the culture of owning, torturing and killing people is
>something to be ashamed of?
>
>Fab
If you honestly believe that owning, torturing, and killing people is what the
South and Southerners were all about...... you really should do a bit more
research before condemning an entire people. It's myopic to think that such
practices were singular to that portion of land only below the Mason-Dixon
line.
--Fizzie--
ParrotHead
> intelligent as white people, nor that women should have any rights.
You're comparing apples to oranges, in my book.
> Just because more people believe the wrong thing doesn't make it right.
And who decides what "the wrong thing" is? Those who complain the
loudest? In most cases, the majority gets to decide. That's what
democracy is all about.
> Until it's you, John. Until it's you.
But see, it never IS me. Nor is it ever LIKELY to be me. I have a
very different attitude about these things; I don't take offense so
easily.
> Back to the days when coloreds and wimmen knew their places!
That's right... Anyone who doesn't find the word "Dixie" offensive
is a racist and sexist. How silly of me not to realize this sooner.
Charges like this are frequently made in an effort to shame those
of us with thicker skins into bowing down to the PC
"offense-sensitivity" state of mind. Sorry, but it doesn't work with
me.
> It's okay to change the names for arbitrary reasons, but not okay to stop
> hurting someone. Got it. Thanks.
It's a slippery slope, Fab. There's ALWAYS going to be someone
taking offense about something. If you try to cater to every whim of
every overly-sensitive person, you'll become embroiled in non-stop
madness. You CAN NOT run a business the size of Disney without there
always being someone upset about something at any given time. You
must, then, use LOGIC and prudence when evaluating the merits of
complaints received.
Lesa
"fizzie" <dixielan...@aol.comdotcom> wrote in message
This is just the point that I struggled with my kids over the last few
weeks. We're in the midst of studying the Civil War in our history studies.
I wanted them to understand that the south was about much more than slavery,
and the north about much more than abolition. I also wanted them to
understand that slavery itself was about much more than a bunch of rich
people wanted to torture and abuse others. I'm also currently trying to get
them to understand that the Civil War itself was about much more than
plantation owners wanting to keep their slaves--there is a very valid reason
why this war was, and still is, referred to as "the war of northern
aggression."
Lesa
Doom and Gloomer Denise
practices were singular to that portion of land only below the Mason-Dixon
line. >>
Hail Fizzie!
Personally, I just can't keep up with what words are PC and not PC anymore.
Some are obvious, and others are not. And not everyone who is part of a group
cares. My family calls themselves blind - not visually impaired. Most blind
people I know use that term, although I know there are some who find it
offensive. If I was disabled permanently, I'd probably be calling myself
crippled (though obviously that isn't what others call themselves). Deaf,
hearing impaired, differentially abled, whatever. I think sometimes we put too
much emphasis on words and not enough on actions.
Denise
Randal Sheppard
news:dadafcec.02051...@posting.google.com:
>
>> Until it's you, John. Until it's you.
>
> But see, it never IS me. Nor is it ever LIKELY to be me. I have a
> very different attitude about these things; I don't take offense so
> easily.
>
of 'the majority' you keep referring to. It's sort of a "it's not me so I
can be objective" approach.
If you were an African American facing the daily barriers and prejudices
that they encounter on a daily basis it's not that far fetched that you
wouldn't want terms that demeaned or made light of the suffering of your
ancestors interwoven into the language. You wouldn't want those pajoritive
terms thrown back at you routinely, and sadly they most likely are used
much more than you realise.
While I don't know you personally, it's easy for 'the majority' not to take
offence so easily because they don't experience descrimination on a daily
basis; you don't know what it's like to be African American so you can't
say how you'd react in that situation.
There is, at least IMHO, a great lack of understanding that there isn't
this mythical equality for all people out there yet. Language is one of the
many tools that society can use to descriminate or 'keep people in their
places' and thus as our ideas progress, so to should our language.
>> Back to the days when coloreds and wimmen knew their places!
>
> That's right... Anyone who doesn't find the word "Dixie" offensive
> is a racist and sexist. How silly of me not to realize this sooner.
> Charges like this are frequently made in an effort to shame those
> of us with thicker skins into bowing down to the PC
> "offense-sensitivity" state of mind. Sorry, but it doesn't work with
> me.
>
I'm sorry, but I must agree with Fab's line of argument.
The idea that life is made 'UNbearable' for people like yourself because
certain words are offensive to others is a bit strange. What is the real
difference to you if 'Dixie' is taken out of the common parlance? How will
your life be any different if it's 'Spokesperson' instead of 'spokesman'?
If that makes life unbarable, God knows how you'd deal with wider social
reforms.
>> It's okay to change the names for arbitrary reasons, but not okay to
>> stop hurting someone. Got it. Thanks.
>
> It's a slippery slope, Fab. There's ALWAYS going to be someone
> taking offense about something. If you try to cater to every whim of
> every overly-sensitive person, you'll become embroiled in non-stop
> madness. You CAN NOT run a business the size of Disney without there
> always being someone upset about something at any given time. You
> must, then, use LOGIC and prudence when evaluating the merits of
> complaints received.
>
I agree with you to an extent, but Dixie isn't exactly the vaguest of
terms.
All the best,
Randal Sheppard
Randal Sheppard
news:20020514220215...@mb-ba.aol.com:
>> I disagree with that definition. The average person understand PC
>>to extend beyond common civility to the point of pandering to
>>"offense-sensitive" people who find offense around every corner.
>
> Until it's you, John. Until it's you.
>
This is at the crux of it I think. It's not that difficult to be easygoing
about these things when who you are isn't regularly challenged.
Perhaps I'm wandering off-topic, but the way the word 'Gay' is so routinely
used in the pejoritive sense in these days of political correctness really
surprises me. Gay people are subjected to constant villification not just
in general conversation, but also through television, cinema and other
mediums where using gay or faggot as a put-down still seems to be somewhat
acceptable. I'm a young guy (20) and have had friends explain to me that
because they're not literally referring to homosexuals it isn't homophobic.
Strange logic, and gay people are another group who are 'supersensitive' if
they cause a fuss about these kind of things.
Until it's you is 100% right.
Rodney T. Grill
different opinions, and because we (well, many of us) live in a country
founded on liberty, we are free to express our opinions. However, we are
not free to force our opinions on others. That is the fallacy of Politcal
Correctness. It *appears* to be preventing people from being offended, but
it's really just an excuse for forcing opinions on people.
So, some people find the word Dixie offensive, so now it's not "correct" to
use it anymore. Honestly, in my 30+ years of living in Alabama, I've never
connected the word "Dixie" to anything racist or oppressive or offensive.
It was just a colloquial word to describe a geographics area, just like
"left coast" or "snow belt". I've never seen the rebel flag as a symbol of
oppression, although I do understand that there are certain groups of people
who use it that way which causes other to be offended by it. For me, it's
difficult to understand this whole "oppression" issue. No one that I can
identify in my family tree was ever a slave, nor did they own slaves. No
one that I know has owned slaves, nor have their parent nor their
grandparents. I do not know anyone who has been a slave, nor the child or
grandchild of a slave. Basically, all I know and understand about slavery
and oppression was learned in history class.
Alabama has always been called The Heart of Dixie because it is the center
of the deep south and it was also the capital of the confederacy during the
Civil War. Of course this war was over state's rights to keep slaves and
yes those slaves were black people and yes many of the black people living
in the US today are decendants of those slaves. Why should this whole issue
be hidden and covered up? It may not be the most pleasant part of our
history, but it *is* part of our history and all the semantics in the world
won't take it away or make it more pleasant. It's not legal to have slaves
now, and I think there are few people who would agree that it should ever
have been legal, but by "covering up" and "cleansing" our language, we don't
change anything. People who hate will still hate, and people who feel
"oppressed" will still feel oppressed. The only way we can change the world
is through our actions; not through euphemisms.
- RODNEY (81 days to go!)
fizzie
>that they encounter on a daily basis it's not that far fetched that you
>wouldn't want terms that demeaned or made light of the suffering of your
>ancestors interwoven into the language.
This isn't 1860 or even 1960....it's 2002. To be honest, I don't feel these
barriers and prejudices based on skin color are present in today's Southern
society. In this new millenium, American born citizens start out on an even
playing field. How a person plays the game of life is up to them. There are
an awful lot of words offensive to someone out there........Mick, Spick, Kyke,
Chink, Spade, Redneck, cracker, white bread, Wop, Squaw, Lesbo, Fag...
There's probably a derrogatory term out there for each of us. However, to the
best of my knowledge, "Dixie" does not refer to a segment of people, but rather
a segment of the country which lies beneath the Mason-Dixon Line.
--Fizzie--
Doom and Gloomer Denise
that they encounter on a daily basis it's not that far fetched that you >>
I am not saying that there are no prejudices - but unless you look like Brooke
Shields, there are GOING to be prejudices against you for one thing or another.
Too short, too tall, too fat, too thin, too old, too young, too much of an
accent, whatever. It is the way life is. I have family members of various
races and religions (who date all races and religions) and when I am out with
them, I don't see a real problem. I have a friend (white) who married a doctor
(Phillipino) and I know she encountered some sort of discrimination - but the
thing was, it wasn't worded. It had to do with booking a hotel room (they
wouldn't rent to him, but they ended up renting to her). THAT is the type of
discrimination that is wrong - the unsaid stuff, I think most of us can handle
words.
Denise
Denise's Webhome
http://members.aol.com/tinybeetle/index.htm
TDC Defender and (close)
Observer of All Virile Male Servers at Epcots Chefs De France
mic...@pipeline.com
discussions?! I'm trying to do some trip planning here!
Anyhow, my yardstick for measuring PC is to try to put myself in the
other person's shoes. Would I feel offended? Then, it's worth the
effort to make the adjustment, whether I think it is important or not.
The US is relatively young, compared to many countries in the world.
Yet, we have a pop cultural history of demeaning what we don't
understand; much like young children do. (watching old movies can be
quite uncomfortable sometimes) I have studied ancient Chinese
philosophies and have the utmost respect for much of their teachings.
Yet, I can remember Americans saying things like "Confucious say" with
complete disrespect and a total lack of understanding. Most Asian
people do not believe in bringing attention to themselves, and because
they have not made as much fuss as other groups, you can still find
Asian sterotypes now. (check out recent news story on Abercrombie and
Fitch's tshirts, that they ended up pulling from their stores) I am
not Asian, but that isn't the point. I can imagine what it would be
like to have something that I have been taught to respect made a
subject of ridicule by others.
Rodney, you are right that merely a change in the language will not
end hate. But a discussion on how words affect people and society can
enlighten and inform. Hopefully, the legacy of PC will not be one of
censorship, but of making people reflect on their attitudes and what
they and others consider "offensive"
As has been demonstrated here numerous times by people making personal
attacks and communication breakdowns, we *should* be careful of the
words we choose. Would you argue that a parent or teacher has the
"right" to free and unencumbered speech with your child or grandchild?
Words hurt in more lasting ways than physical bruises sometimes. Why
shouldn't we be careful?
MickeyC
35 days to go
Rodney T. Grill
"fizzie" <dixielan...@aol.comdotcom> wrote in message
> >If you were an African American facing the daily barriers and prejudices
> >that they encounter on a daily basis it's not that far fetched that you
> >wouldn't want terms that demeaned or made light of the suffering of your
> >ancestors interwoven into the language.
>
> This isn't 1860 or even 1960....it's 2002. To be honest, I don't feel
these
> barriers and prejudices based on skin color are present in today's
Southern
> society.
Well, actually, they still are. Not too long ago, I worked for a company
(small, privately owned) that had an unwritten policy (but of course all
their policies were unwritten) of not hiring black employees. The owner
said he had absolutely nothing against blacks and that he was sure there
were just as many good black employees as white employees. His excuse was
that if the black employee became a problem, that it was all but impossible
to terminate him without EEOC hassles and lawsuits. This is not the only
person I know who thinks this way. I am sure it is still very possible for
people to experience prejudice and racism in today's modern southern
society. However, I think things are much better than they were years ago.
> In this new millenium, American born citizens start out on an even
> playing field. How a person plays the game of life is up to them.
This I definitely agree with. Even a person unfortunate enough to be born
into poverty with abusive parents can still decide his own fate when he
becomes an adult.
> There are
> an awful lot of words offensive to someone out there........Mick, Spick,
Kyke,
> Chink, Spade, Redneck, cracker, white bread, Wop, Squaw, Lesbo, Fag...
> There's probably a derrogatory term out there for each of us. However, to
the
> best of my knowledge, "Dixie" does not refer to a segment of people, but
rather
> a segment of the country which lies beneath the Mason-Dixon Line.
Yep. And even thinking about this, if Disney were serious about being
totally PC, they should actually tear down the Mansions - they are too much
like plantations, the traditional owners of which had slaves. Surely that
in and of itself would be more offensive than the word "Dixie".
CoastalWader
are present in today's Southern society.>>
>Well, actually, they still are. Not too long ago, I worked for a company
>(small, privately owned) that had an unwritten policy (but of course all
>their policies were unwritten) of not hiring black employees. The owner
>said he had absolutely nothing against blacks and that he was sure there
>were just as many good black employees as white employees. His excuse was
>that if the black employee became a problem, that it was all but impossible
>to terminate him without EEOC hassles and lawsuits. This is not the only
>person I know who thinks this way.
It's naive to think this problem is exclusive to the southern states.
~Lisa
"Lesa" <le...@wi.rr.com> wrote in message
news:2HsE8.947$%61.7...@twister.kc.rr.com...
> I'm also currently trying to get
> them to understand that the Civil War itself was about much more than
> plantation owners wanting to keep their slaves--there is a very valid
reason
> why this war was, and still is, referred to as "the war of northern
> aggression."
This northerner grew up learning that the Civil War was about state's
rights........... must've missed the "aggression" part. <grin>
Rodney T. Grill
<mic...@pipeline.com> wrote in message
news:3ce2a6d2....@news.pipeline.com...
> Rodney, you are right that merely a change in the language will not
> end hate. But a discussion on how words affect people and society can
> enlighten and inform. Hopefully, the legacy of PC will not be one of
> censorship, but of making people reflect on their attitudes and what
> they and others consider "offensive"
> As has been demonstrated here numerous times by people making personal
> attacks and communication breakdowns, we *should* be careful of the
> words we choose. Would you argue that a parent or teacher has the
> "right" to free and unencumbered speech with your child or grandchild?
> Words hurt in more lasting ways than physical bruises sometimes. Why
> shouldn't we be careful?
> MickeyC
> 35 days to go
I agree with what you are saying that words can be hurtful, but my argument
is that the word "Dixie" was not and is not meant to be offensive. It is
simply a word used to refer to a particular region of the US that happened
to have been on the wrong side of the issues surrounding the civil war.
Erasing the word from our vocabulary does not change the fact that this
particular area exists and what happened there over 100 years ago (hey,
maybe it's not a bad idea to keep reminding ourselves of this atrocity?).
So maybe we remove this word, and then the next thing is that the Native
Americans say that using the word Alabama (which means "clearer of brush")
is offensive because it reminds them of how we violently took over the land
of their forefathers. Then what? We change the name of the state because
some people find it offensive? Hey, I have some Irish in me and I really
find the word Georgia offensive, since it is named after King George who
probably persecuted some of my Irish forefathers. Now what?
Molly7737
>said he had absolutely nothing against blacks and that he was sure there
>were just as many good black employees as white employees. His excuse was
>that if the black employee became a problem, that it was all but impossible
>to terminate him without EEOC hassles and lawsuits. This is not the only
>person I know who thinks this way.
Unfortunately this is still true but I can't say I blame the companies. It is
such a hassle to deal with the EEOC. I have known many people who tried to
terminate a black employee for good cause and then they are sued through the
EEOC. Even though the companies usually prevail it still costs them money and
time.
Doom and Gloomer Denise
particular area exists and what happened there over 100 years ago (hey,
maybe it's not a bad idea to keep reminding ourselves of this atrocity?). >>
I have heard that some schoolbooks don't even have slavery mentioned anymore
(and if mentioned, often not an integral part). We SHOULD talk about stuff
like that, and the Holocaust, etc.
Lesa
"~Lisa" <L@I'mmovingtoFlorida.com> wrote in message
news:ue5e2sl...@corp.supernews.com...
I'm thinking that the grin indicates that you do know that the south's
feelings that the north's views were infringing on their state's rights is
what the aggression was about, right?
Chaos Halter
"The Fabulous Disney Babe" <dscve...@aol.comFabulous> wrote in message
It is something to be ashamed of, something to be remembered, something to
learn from. But revising history because it doesn't suit you accomplishes
nothing. Sure, there were negative aspects of living in the south in the
1800's, still are in the 2000's. I should know, I live in the south. But
there were aspects that were worth noting, and perhaps, Dixie landing did
that in it's own way.
I dare say there are cultures all over the world that had marks agaisnt
them, cultures that did things we dare not even speak in a family usenet
group. Yet we still revisit that history, and we learn from it, and we make
sure to never forget how it impacts out lives today. Revise history all you
want, change things all you like, but it still won't change the fact that it
happened.
Me, I'm a history buff, and I for one know that there were parts of the
south that should never be forgotten, because it brought with it intrinsic
value. Even the evils of the south in those days have intrinsic value, as it
gave us reason to never do that again.
But to revise everything that happened just to make people happy is an
atrocity in my eyes, because eventually, people will forget what it was all
about, and one day, we might actually forget how much progress we made. Just
because you don't like the history, doesn't mean it doesn't have value.
Chaos Halter
away.....
"Doom and Gloomer Denise" <tinyb...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020515162205...@mb-mq.aol.com...
Chaos Halter
"Rodney T. Grill" <rod...@grill.org> wrote in message
news:3ce289e1$1...@corp-news.newsgroups.com...
~Lisa
> > This northerner grew up learning that the Civil War was about state's
> > rights........... must've missed the "aggression" part. <grin>
> >
> I'm thinking that the grin indicates that you do know that the south's
> feelings that the north's views were infringing on their state's rights is
> what the aggression was about, right?
Yup. I recall two very distinctive teaching styles when it comes to the
Civil War and they were dependent upon location. Growing up in Florida,
things were presented differently then they were back in Massachusetts. Just
one of the more noticeable things learned from going to school in two
different areas of the country.
Chaos Halter
would be insulted by such.... Words only go as far as your skin, if your
skin is as thick as a brick wall, words accomplish nothing, if you're thin
skinned, expect to get hurt the rest of your life. My point, you can only be
insulted if you want to be. You gotta be bigger than a damned word.
"Rodney T. Grill" <rod...@grill.org> wrote in message
news:3ce2b...@corp-news.newsgroups.com...
ParrotHead
Nobody can. I mean, who'd have ever guessed that the name of a
geographical location could be inherently offensive? A logical person
might wonder why "Dixie" would be offensive, but "Alabama" wouldn't
be. After all, both names describe the same area.
But as I've asserted before, logic seems to have a minimal role in
situations like this.
Jan Bordelon
>You don't think the culture of owning,
>torturing and killing people is something to
>be ashamed of?
Ashamed of, regretted, yes......but it IS part of our history. That
won't go away just because we wish it wouldn't have happened. And
changing the name of a resort at WDW won't make it not have happened.
We can't rewrite history to suit the PC.
Jan B.
aka Praline (cuz I'm sweet and nuts)
TDC Hoarder of Piratical Doubloons and Royal Supplier of Beads to the
Beadzilians
Imagine!!!!!! °o°
°o° Dreaming of Walt Disney World?
http://members.tripod.com/~Jan_B/ °o°
Nicholas Steinhoff
"ParrotHead" <parro...@wdwblues.com> wrote in message
news:dadafcec.02051...@posting.google.com...
> > Personally, I just can't keep up with what words are PC and not PC
anymore.
>
> Nobody can.
My favorite example of this was when "disabled" became politically
incorrect, and the new preferred term was "differently abled". As a result,
that class suddenly included Michael Jordan, who is certainly abled
differently from most of us.
From what I can tell, "disabled" seems to again be acceptable (as well as
accurate).
--
karl "at" deltanet "dot" com
(Make the obvious changes for replies)
St. John the Theologian Orthodox Church
San Juan Capistrano, California
mic...@pipeline.com
>I agree with what you are saying that words can be hurtful, but my argument
>is that the word "Dixie" was not and is not meant to be offensive. It is
>simply a word used to refer to a particular region of the US that happened
>to have been on the wrong side of the issues surrounding the civil war.
>Erasing the word from our vocabulary does not change the fact that this
>particular area exists and what happened there over 100 years ago (hey,
>maybe it's not a bad idea to keep reminding ourselves of this atrocity?).
>So maybe we remove this word, and then the next thing is that the Native
>Americans say that using the word Alabama (which means "clearer of brush")
>is offensive because it reminds them of how we violently took over the land
>of their forefathers. Then what? We change the name of the state because
>some people find it offensive? Hey, I have some Irish in me and I really
>find the word Georgia offensive, since it is named after King George who
>probably persecuted some of my Irish forefathers. Now what?
>
>- RODNEY (81 days to go!)
>
>
re-naming of most places in our country if we were trying not to
insult somebody! (Indian names for places we stole, towns and streets
named after men of questionable character or deeds) And I totally
agree with the people who do not want history re-written- certain
negative events should never be forgotten. The PC situation is one of
those grey areas and is too complicated to have simple answers. As
Denise said, it is often the words that are unspoken that are even
more racist. The attitudes are what need to be changed-if people in
power spent as much time and energy creating effective tolerance
programs (like the Teaching Tolerance group) as they do finding words
that offend and working to change them, I think we'd progress alot
faster in lessening the hateful attitudes that lead to so many social
problems.
MickeyC
34 days to go
Rodney T. Grill
"Nicholas Steinhoff" <kar...@deltanetDOT.com> wrote in message
news:ac0i3s$q...@dispatch.concentric.net...
>
> "ParrotHead" <parro...@wdwblues.com> wrote in message
> news:dadafcec.02051...@posting.google.com...
> > > Personally, I just can't keep up with what words are PC and not PC
> anymore.
> >
> > Nobody can.
>
> My favorite example of this was when "disabled" became politically
> incorrect, and the new preferred term was "differently abled". As a
result,
> that class suddenly included Michael Jordan, who is certainly abled
> differently from most of us.
>
> From what I can tell, "disabled" seems to again be acceptable (as well as
> accurate).
What happened to "physically challenged"? I thought *that* was the
"correct" term?
- RODNEY (80 days to go!)
mic...@pipeline.com
<matchi...@comcastnospam.net> wrote:
>I'm a cop, maybe I should be upset by being called a pig... maybe swine
>would be insulted by such.... Words only go as far as your skin, if your
>skin is as thick as a brick wall, words accomplish nothing, if you're thin
>skinned, expect to get hurt the rest of your life. My point, you can only be
>insulted if you want to be. You gotta be bigger than a damned word.
>
>
My main point here concerned the irresponsible approach to "free"
speech, especially when it concerns children. The old adage about
sticks and stones is not true. I saw so many children hurt more by
words when I taught elementary school than I ever saw by the
occasional playground fight. We don't necessarily need to be
thick-skinned, in the sense that we deny our emotions, but we do need
to consider the source. It takes awhile for children (and some
adults!-myself included) to learn that.
Rodney T. Grill
<mic...@pipeline.com> wrote in message
news:3ce3f131....@news.pipeline.com...
This also reminds me of the movement that was (or still is?) underway to
rename all the sports teams. Apparently, Native Americans found team names
like Braves, Indians, and Redskins to be offensive. I heard someone say
(and I believe this was actually a joke) that PETA was petitioning to ban
teams from using animal names (Bears, Lions, etc.).
NoOneYouKnow
> This also reminds me of the movement that was (or still is?) underway to
> rename all the sports teams. Apparently, Native Americans found team
names
> like Braves, Indians, and Redskins to be offensive.
http://www.cnn.com/2002/fyi/teachers.ednews/05/16/indian.mascots.ap/index.ht
ml
> I heard someone say
> (and I believe this was actually a joke) that PETA was petitioning to ban
> teams from using animal names (Bears, Lions, etc.).
http://www.startribune.com/stories/526/2826769.html
http://espn.go.com/nfl/news/2000/0626/605330.html
http://www.peta-online.org/search/news/row.asp?id=400
Not a sports team, but ... last but not least:
http://www.cnn.com/US/9609/06/fishy.name/index.html
(sigh)
---JRE---
Benjamin Geiger
> Well hey, if you don't like history, just revise it, will allllllll go
> away.....
"He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the
present controls the past." -- O'Brien, _Nineteen_Eighty-four_, by
George Orwell
The Fabulous Disney Babe
>barriers and prejudices based on skin color are present in today's Southern
>society.
oh, man....
Fab
The Fabulous Disney Babe
Was I the only one who laughed at the Ep II line about destroying the
Federation Starship?
fizzie
>>barriers and prejudices based on skin color are present in today's Southern
>>society.
>
>oh, man....
>
>Fab
'Scuse me, Fab, but where do you live? Not trying to be personal, just feel
it's relevant.
--Fizzie--
Doom and Gloomer Denise
"correct" term? >>
The thing is - it isn't about the words, and once you switch one term to mean
something else, eventually that term is no longer correct either - because it
means the same thing. I haven't heard the challenged term much in a while
either.
Zemmy!
<<SNIP>>
> This also reminds me of the movement that was (or still is?) underway to
> rename all the sports teams. Apparently, Native Americans found team
names
> like Braves, Indians, and Redskins to be offensive. I heard someone say
> (and I believe this was actually a joke) that PETA was petitioning to ban
> teams from using animal names (Bears, Lions, etc.).
>
> - RODNEY (80 days to go!)
>
PETA has requested that the Green Bay Packers change their name because it
is derived from the meat packing industry.
What's next the Milwaukee Brewers have to changed their name because people
can get drunk on Beer?
Zemmy!
Brian
>What's next the Milwaukee Brewers have to changed their name because people
>can get drunk on Beer?
>
>
>Zemmy!
Wouldn't surprise me.
mic...@pipeline.com
wrote:
It's interesting that evey person has their "line" at which they
consider the demands of PCers to be either legitimate or over the top.
I consdier the name of the Washington DC football team to be as
offensive as the term "colored" used to be for African-Americans, but
I think PETA's gripe over the Packers is ridiculous. (and I'm a
semi-vegetarian) I guess that's the problem with the whole PC
situation; it's highly subjective. On the plus side though, it gets us
talking about these things and that has value in and of itself.
MickeyC
31 days to go!
The Fabulous Disney Babe
>it's relevant.
>
>--Fizzie--
At the present, I live in California. Previously I have lived in Hawaii,
Yokohama, Florida (Tampa, then Orlando, then LBV, moving ever closer...) and
New York State.
The Fabulous Disney Babe
>>it's relevant.
>>
>>--Fizzie--
>
PS: No, I've never lived in San Francisco, and yes, I have lived in the South,
love it and intend to return. I believe the majority of the people in the area
I want to return to are open-minded, decent folks who know the difference
between tradition and bigotry.
Fab
The Fabulous Disney Babe
"Rita has said rec.arts.disney.parks acted as a very powerful
consumer group, completely self-organized, responsible, and lucid..."
J
"Dixie" must also reject "America". There was slavery in the United States
of America from the time of the Declaration of Independence in 1776, until
the ratification of Article 13 of the Constitution of the United States in
1865, a total of 89 years (before 1776 it was a British colony). So will
you now strike the words "America" or "United States" from your list of
acceptable words because there was once slavery in America? Or do you
reconize that there has been no slavery in the United States for 137 years?
Well then why not recognize that there has not been slavery in Dixie for 137
years? Yes, we had to beat slavery out of Dixie, but almost everyone in the
Dixie of today is against slavery. And if we cannot say "Dixie", then we
cannot say Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, or the names of many other
states that once fought for the Confederacy. You might say, "Dixie was not
a geographical state, it was a state of mind representing the ideals of the
Confederacy", but that is just B.S. "Dixie" is not the short form of "The
Confederacy". "Dixie" does not mean slavery. "Dixie" is a place in which
there was once slavery but now there is not.
And if you are against "Dixie", then you should refuse to stay at "Port
Orleans Riverside" because the architecture of the buildings in Magnolia
Bend is from a time and place in which there was slavery, and many such
buildings belonged to slave owners. Removing "Dixie" from the name does not
change that. So if you are true to your logic, you will send a letter to
Disney to change the name of "Port Orleans Riverside" to "Confederate
Slave-Owner Houses" and then petition Disney to close it down completely.
Such hooey. Slavery is evil and the Confederacy was wrong, but that does
not change the fact that there were some nice buildings built in southern
states prior to 1865. Taking "Dixie" out of the name of the hotel does not
change the fact that the hotel consists of buildings modeled on those built
during the time of slavery and in the southern states. So I trust that
anyone in this thread that thinks the word "Dixie" is pro-slavery will vow
to never stay in "Port Orleans Riverside" buildings again, because if not
you are a hypocrit.
And as for the names of places, Germany and Japan were once evil, but we
don't stop saying "Germany" or "Japan", because they are not evil today.
But if you don't want to use the word, "Dixie", then don't use it. I don't
give a crap what you do. But here I go: Dixie, Dixie, Dixie!
http://www.uselessknowledge.com/word/dixie.shtml
"Carol Kennedy" <adamsk...@visi.com> wrote in message
news:ykhE8.78782$vm6.14...@ruti.visi.com...
> ParrotHead <parro...@wdwblues.com> wrote:
> > The average person understand PC
> > to extend beyond common civility to the point of pandering to
> > "offense-sensitive" people who find offense around every corner.
>
> You know, there's offense and then there's offense. I think there's a
> difference, for example, between (1) taking offense at someone who uses a
> word or phrase in good faith (let's use "handicapped person," because it's
> one that involves my own family) even though *some*--by no means all--of
the
> people who might be so identified dislike the word, and (2) taking offense
> at light-hearted and even approving use of a word that is intimately
> associated with the enslavement, mutilation, torture, and murder of one's
> ancestors--a word such as "Dixie" or "Holocaust" or "Hiroshima" or
"Wounded
> Knee." JMHO.
>
> --
> Carol Kennedy (TDC Pollo Grande, Speaker of Inadequate Spanish, and
> Translator without Portfolio)
>
>
>
ParrotHead
"J" <jfdl#l...@ksk.ca> wrote in message news:<U0hG8.30905$y17.8...@news20.bellglobal.com>...
Vox Humana
> "Dixie" must also reject "America". There was slavery in the United
States
> of America from the time of the Declaration of Independence in 1776, until
> the ratification of Article 13 of the Constitution of the United States in
> 1865, a total of 89 years (before 1776 it was a British colony). So will
> you now strike the words "America" or "United States" from your list of
> acceptable words because there was once slavery in America
Your argument has nothing to do with the issue at hand. First of all, the
people who recognize that the term "Dixie" has negative connotations are not
"anti-Dixie." There is no effort to expunge the historical fact that there
was slavery in the US. Quite the opposite. The point being made is that
there was slavery in the US and that the term "Dixie" brings it to the
surface. In the context of a discussion of the south in general, and
slavery in particular, the term "Dixie" is quite appropriate. The point of
contention here is that the use of this term in the context of a leisure
destination, i.e. "Disney's Dixie Landings Resort" is offensive to a
significant portion of the population. I see no reason for a private
corporation to stick by a name that is controversial and which people find
offensive. Had they named it "Holy Roller Hollow" or "Disney's Tobacco
Road Resort" which could be offensive to rural white people and/or
charismatic Christians, we would be having the same discussion. As for the
song "Dixie Land" which is commonly know as "Dixie" I would point out the
following facts:
1 The song was written by a white man from Ohio, not a southern composer
2 The song was written to be performed by white men in black face
(minstrels) who pranced around a stage mocking black people.
3 The song was used as a southern war song after its performance in New
Orleans in 1860
I would also recommend that you look at a map. The US is only a small part
of the portion of the world that is knows as "America." The last time I
looked, there was North, Central, and South America. This region has many
nations besides the US. Not every American nation had slavery and not every
state within the US had slavery. It is disingenuous to suggest that the
terms "America" and "United States" conjure up the concept of enslavement.
However, seeing that this is a free country, if you feel offended by these
terms you can write to Disney and ask them to change the name of the
"American Adventure" attraction at Epcot. Good luck!
Doctor Don
southern farmers. Farmers -- not necessarily slaveholders (only one
in five white men at the beginning of the Civil War owned slaves). It
was written by a Northerner and first performed in New York City.
Today, however, "Dixie" means whatever you want it to mean, and
therein lies the problem. While to some, black or white, it may mean
the romance of southern life (in comparison to the more time-is-money
bustle of the North), and could be could be seen as a source of pride
for any southerner, others, black or white, will latch onto a word and
say that to THEM, it means this, or that, and they're offended.
Ninety-nine times out of 100, this is -- at the heart of it -- for one
reason: politics, of one sort or another.
"Dixie" is just a word -- formed not with a hateful connotation, like
many words used against southern blacks (or is that a bad word now,
too? Am I limited to just African Americans? I thought black was
beautiful once) -- or in other places at other times, Jews, or the
Irish, Poles, Russians, Germans, Italians, etc. "Dixie" can just as
easily mean that period in American history when blacks developed and
retained, against heavy oppression, their own culture separate from
that of the homelands from which they were taken, and began, over the
subsequent century, from emancipation to civil rights, from Frederick
Douglas to Martin Luther King Jr., and beyond, to climb to the
mountaintop. "Dixie" can be reminiscent of that crucible that formed
black America into what it is today.
It is easy to say you're offended by a word. I would rather be
offended, as it were, by the person who uses it, and how they use it;
THAT is where the difference lies.
Are people of color offended by shows like "Roots" because there are
slaves portrayed -- or proud because it shows their perserverance and
their struggle for something better? Are they offended by the
"spirituals" that were the cultural backbone of that struggle? By the
word "magnolia"? Do they refuse to wear shirts made from cotton
because it symbolizes their oppression?
If it were me, I would rather be offended by the violent rednecks that
haven't learned a thing in 150 years, and don't want to learn; who
forget that their own ancestors came over here on boats as well. I
would rather be offended by the high crime rate, both black on black
and otherwise; or by the ridicule some who have tried to better
themselves have gone through from their own people. Or the people who
fulfill the stereotypes, or the people who still today complain that
the Man is keeping them down when in fact they refuse to exert the
effort to take a step up.
"Dixie" is just a word. And to many, on both sides, it's just an
excuse.
As for the resort, it had nothing to do with the word -- it's
business. It made sense to have one managerial staff instead of two,
and people who had never been could easily get confused (especially
those coming from Europe) between the two sites and what the
differences are.
People who pick fights are people who have run out of ideas.
Doctor Don
fizzie
>state within the US had slavery.
Not every state supported slavery? True. But don't forget that the Chinese were
exploited to build the railroads. The West was won by killing off North
America's indigenous native peoples. Remember "Irish need not apply?" in the
North? I dare say there probably isn't one area of the country where
prejudice and abuse of certain races, cultures, or nationalities has not taken
place. However, I continue to be personally offended by the renaming of Dixie
Landings and the banning of Song of the South. It's hypocritical, it is the
product of tunnel vision, and it pits one set of sensitivities against another.
--Fizzie--
The Fabulous Disney Babe
>exploited to build the railroads. The West was won by killing off North
>America's indigenous native peoples. Remember "Irish need not apply?" in the
>North? I dare say there probably isn't one area of the country where
>prejudice and abuse of certain races, cultures, or nationalities has not
>taken
>place.
Absolutely true. However, I don't see how this excuses making fun of the
misery of one group.
Avatar
: MickeyC - I read that too, and ever since I have been typing out
: Polynesian too! It's on Deb's page http://wdwig.com/faq_poly.htm and it
: says "Can I just call it the Poly for short? You shouldn't. In the
: Polynesian islands, the term "Poly" is actually a racial slur, and
: considered offensive to many people."
:
And such is the silliness of political correctness...We must spell out
polynesian when refering to a Disney hotel, instead of Poly, because in
Polynesia, poly is considered offensive by many...But we are not in
Polynesia, nor refering to actually polynesians in any way, shape or form
so in my grammer book it just shouldn't matter in the least.
How much sillier are we going to get before it finally stops??
Unfortunately its probably going to get even worse...
Avatar
Avatar
: You know, there's offense and then there's offense. I think there's a
: difference, for example, between (1) taking offense at someone who uses a
: word or phrase in good faith (let's use "handicapped person," because it's
: one that involves my own family) even though *some*--by no means all--of the
: people who might be so identified dislike the word, and (2) taking offense
: at light-hearted and even approving use of a word that is intimately
: associated with the enslavement, mutilation, torture, and murder of one's
: ancestors--a word such as "Dixie" or "Holocaust" or "Hiroshima" or "Wounded
: Knee." JMHO.
Funny, but I just do not have the same connotations from Dixe that I get
from Holocaust or Hiroshima or even Wounded Knee. I just can't put Dixie
as a word into the same context. To me it has and always be the name of a
song, not a word that is intimately assocaited with enslavement,
mutilation, torture or murder of anyone, let alone my ancestors. Such
comments are somewhat ludicrous in the extreme to which one has to stretch
to apply them, especially when placed into direct comparison to things
like Hiroshima and the Holocaust.
Avatar
Vox Humana
"Avatar" <ava...@netaxs.com> wrote in message
news:ZeQI8.357$Fr4.5...@newshog.newsread.com...
I had the same reaction when I first heard that "Dixie" was offensive to
some people. The reality is that I was just uninformed. I did a little
digging and found that it was a song written in a derogatory slang dialect
by a northern man to be sung by white folks dressed in black face. I can
accept the fact that some black people find this offensive. It doesn't seem
like good business to retain a name that some people find offensive when
there are satisfactory alternatives. I'm not in a position to weigh if
killing x number of people in one group is better or worse than killing y
number of people in another group. I don't know if slavery is higher on the
morality scale than killing people during the course of a war. I can accept
that each of these things is bad to some degree.
Avatar
: Hmm, this kind of attitude kind of worries me as it's exactly the attitude
: of 'the majority' you keep referring to. It's sort of a "it's not me so I
: can be objective" approach.
Actually no its the "I am an intelligent enough human being to not be
offended by every little thing that *could*, but doesn't necessarily
somehow relate to something that might be offensive to some people" crowd.
: If you were an African American facing the daily barriers and prejudices
: that they encounter on a daily basis it's not that far fetched that you
: wouldn't want terms that demeaned or made light of the suffering of your
: ancestors interwoven into the language. You wouldn't want those pajoritive
: terms thrown back at you routinely, and sadly they most likely are used
: much more than you realise.
It angers me to no end to see one of my closest friends continually
stopped by the police in his neighborhood for driving while black. That
upsets me greatly. Meanwhile that same friend finds it insane that people
want to hide away words like Dixie because they imply slavery. He laughs
himself silly thinking that people are avoiding such a word because they
think it *might* be offensive to people. Most of the words in our
language have alternate meanings and history. Should we just do away with
every word in the English language that is offensive, or could somehow
be linked to something offensive?? We'd have a pretty hard time
communicating then.
: While I don't know you personally, it's easy for 'the majority' not to take
: offence so easily because they don't experience descrimination on a daily
: basis; you don't know what it's like to be African American so you can't
: say how you'd react in that situation.
Really. So even when I get the word from the horse's mouth I'm still
insensitive if I don't abandon words that people who are supposedly
offended aren't really offended by?? Wow.
: There is, at least IMHO, a great lack of understanding that there isn't
: this mythical equality for all people out there yet. Language is one of the
: many tools that society can use to descriminate or 'keep people in their
: places' and thus as our ideas progress, so to should our language.
The problem is that people are still obsessed about race. As long as
either side of the equation is obsessed about race things will not really
be equal. Political correctness says that it is OK to hire a black man
over a white man if they have the exact same experience and the exact same
skills, but not vice versa. As long as people use race as an excuse for
failure or people use race as a reason to fail some one things will not be
fine. As long as we are Italian-Americans, African-Americans,
Hispanic-Americans and Whatever-Americans we are not just Americans.
: I'm sorry, but I must agree with Fab's line of argument.
: The idea that life is made 'UNbearable' for people like yourself because
: certain words are offensive to others is a bit strange. What is the real
: difference to you if 'Dixie' is taken out of the common parlance? How will
: your life be any different if it's 'Spokesperson' instead of 'spokesman'?
: If that makes life unbarable, God knows how you'd deal with wider social
: reforms.
It is not the fact that certain words are offensive to others it is the
PC culture that forces happy clappy labeling onto people in place of other
labels acting as if they are making things better. Instead what they are
doing is still applying labels, but trying to make it seem less like
people see those labeled as different instead of actually *not* seeing
them as different. That is position I come from. I watch for friends and
jerks in life. The first to be embraced and the latter to be avoided.
They come in all shapes and colors on both fronts. The implication is
that I need to treat them all differently because they come in all shapes
and colors and I find that to be total bull. Be nice to people. Some
will become your friends and some will not. Some will hate you and some
will not. Treat all people with the same measure of respect and that is
all that matters. I treat all my closest friends the same. I give each
the same support and the same razzing and it all comes back to me the same
way. In the PC world I am supposed to treat certain people differently,
because they are different. In my world I treat everyone the same. Which
world is really the better world?? Certainly not the PC world. Looking
around my closest group of friends I can see that it doesn't matter. All
different races, sexual orientations, religions and what have you are
represented there and it was all accidental. All I looked for were people
with similar desires and ideas as my own. I found them. It really is
simple to be nice to people without being paranoid.
: I agree with you to an extent, but Dixie isn't exactly the vaguest of
: terms.
:
Actually to many it is. When I hear the term Dixie I think of a silly song
from the late 19th century. I don't think about slavery, torture or any
of the other things it is supposed to "signify". Funny, but most of my
friends are laughing at this thread right now in chat, and some of them
are actually people who supposedly should be horribly offended by the term
Dixie. Should just show how silly the PC thing is getting...
Avatar
fizzie
>>don't forget that the Chinese were
>>exploited to build the railroads. The West was won by killing off North
>>America's indigenous native peoples. Remember "Irish need not apply?" in the
>>North? I dare say there probably isn't one area of the country where
>>prejudice and abuse of certain races, cultures, or nationalities has not
>>taken
>>place.
>
>Absolutely true. However, I don't see how this excuses making fun of the
>misery of one group.
>
>Fab
>
--Fizzie--
The Fabulous Disney Babe
>Unfortunately its probably going to get even worse...
>
Yeah, it might be YOU getting insulted. Then, all of a sudden, it will be
wrong.
The Fabulous Disney Babe
>comments are somewhat ludicrous in the extreme to which one has to stretch
>to apply them, especially when placed into direct comparison to things
>like Hiroshima and the Holocaust.
>
>Avatar
Why, because slaves weren't horribly tortured and killed? Oh, wait, they were.
The Fabulous Disney Babe
>offended by every little thing that *could*, but doesn't necessarily
>somehow relate to something that might be offensive to some people" crowd.
Until it's YOU.
>It angers me to no end to see one of my closest friends continually
>stopped by the police in his neighborhood for driving while black.
Another poster argued that Dixie should be used because "that kind of thing
doesn't happen anymore".
>Meanwhile that same friend finds it insane that people
>want to hide away words like Dixie because they imply slavery.
"Some of my best friends are ..."
>Should we just do away with
>every word in the English language that is offensive, or could somehow
>be linked to something offensive?? We'd have a pretty hard time
>communicating then.
Until it's YOU.
The Fabulous Disney Babe
>>misery of one group.
>>
>>Fab
>>
>Huh? I can't recall making fun of the misery of a group of people.
>--Fizzie--
>
ah wish I wuz in de land ob cotton
No, no, I can see why that isn't making fun of them at all. My bad.
Rodney T. Grill
"The Fabulous Disney Babe" <dscve...@aol.comFabulous> wrote in message
news:20020529004336...@mb-mq.aol.com...
> >>Absolutely true. However, I don't see how this excuses making fun of
the
> >>misery of one group.
> >>
> >>Fab
> >>
> >Huh? I can't recall making fun of the misery of a group of people.
> >--Fizzie--
> >
>
> ah wish I wuz in de land ob cotton
>
> No, no, I can see why that isn't making fun of them at all. My bad.
Well, singing it *that* way would in fact be making fun of an ethnic group.
However, living most of my life in Alabama, I have never heard it sung in
that manner. Maybe that song was in fact written as making fun of black
slaves. However, it does not change the fact that the south is *still* the
land of cotton and it has *nothing* to do with the fact that over 100 years
ago it was picked by black slaves. No, today, it's a multi-billion dollar
agribusiness with most farms owned by large corporations. Just like you see
orange groves in Florida and vineyards in northern California, drive through
rural Alabama and you'll see cotton fields. Are there people that find that
offensive? If so, should we stop growing cotton?
- RODNEY
Vox Humana
"Rodney T. Grill" <rod...@grill.org> wrote in message
news:3cf4d...@corp-news.newsgroups.com...
>
> "The Fabulous Disney Babe" <dscve...@aol.comFabulous> wrote in message
> news:20020529004336...@mb-mq.aol.com...
> > >>Absolutely true. However, I don't see how this excuses making fun of
> the
> > >>misery of one group.
> > >>
> > >>Fab
> > >>
> > >Huh? I can't recall making fun of the misery of a group of people.
> > >--Fizzie--
> > >
> >
> > ah wish I wuz in de land ob cotton
> >
> > No, no, I can see why that isn't making fun of them at all. My bad.
>
> Well, singing it *that* way would in fact be making fun of an ethnic
group.
That is the original text.
> However, living most of my life in Alabama, I have never heard it sung in
> that manner. Maybe that song was in fact written as making fun of black
> slaves.
Maybe? It was written by the person who invented minstrel show - you know,
white folks in black face, white pants, calico shirts, striped suspenders,
white gloves - dancing like fools.. In a search of the history of this
song, I found that the minstrels went to England to perform Dixie and no one
there found it amusing. I guess if you didn't have contempt for slaves you
just didn't "get it."
Mirthrindr
must say I have to disagree also. This PC stuff CAN and DOES go way too far
AT TIMES. That is not to say there are not many many legitimate complaints
towards offense things, just the mere fact that someone feels offended by
something doesn't automatically make it insensitive or wrong to say comment
in the first place. It isn't always the comment that is insensitive, but the
individual or even group CAN be overly sensitive to a degree that it is
considered beyond normal response by a majority of society or even just
close peers. Heck, I HAVE taken offense to things at times that I personally
recognized were subjective personal reactions on my own part and not
necessarily a reflection of some larger objective offense against a
particular group within society.
Let me be very clear now that I'm not referring to any specific incident
here, just your "general" comments about, "Until it's you". There certainly
are injustices in this supposedly human rights leading country, no one can
dispute that fact, but there are also people who are overly sensitive and
SOME things have just gotten out of control as far as PC goes. You cannot
argue everything that was ever said/done that offended SOMEONE was a
legitimate offensive incident, simply because it wasn't made against the
individuals who are disagreeing with the notion that it was offensive,
that's just not so, people are different and react differently, but an
"offended reaction" in itself by definition does not make the
comment/actions offensive objectively.
This is not an attack or anything towards you, I just wanted to present
another opposing point of view. Hope you don't mind too much.
Mirth
"The Fabulous Disney Babe" <dscve...@aol.comFabulous> wrote in message
news:20020529004240...@mb-mq.aol.com...
Rodney T. Grill
"Vox Humana" <vhu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Lg5J8.1262$zh2.3...@twister.neo.rr.com...
I guess I didn't have contempt for slaves, because I didn't get it. Of
course I have never met a slave. I have never known a slave or a slave
owner nor the children or grandchildren of either. All of my ancestors came
to the USA in the 20th century, so I am fairly certain no one in my family
tree was a slave or a slave owner. I have lived in Alabama more than 30
years and have never heard, much less seen, "Dixie" formally performed.
Back in the 70's and 80's when musical car horns were popular, I recall some
people having horns that would play "Dixie", but it was usually kids in
muscle cars or jacked-up trucks.. I have heard the expression "Whistling
Dixie" to mean "doing nothing". Otherwise, the song is not a part of
current southern culture.
This whole subject arose over the roots of the word "Dixie" of which there
is no clear and definitive understanding. Some attribute it to a variation
of Dixon, as in Mason-Dixon, while others attribute it to the word "Dix"
which was a slang term for confederate money. My belief is that the song
"Dixie" was not the root of the word, but instead was simply one of the
first places the slang word was used in written text (i.e. the lyrics of the
song). At any rate, no one that I know of in the south uses Dixie as a
derogatory term. It's just used to describe the geographic area of the US
also known as The South (which, by the way, does not include any parts of
Florida south of about Gainesville).
It's funny how many people who have never lived in The South are quick to
judge what is and is not happening here. Yes, I am sure there are parts of
the rural South where people still believe in racism and slavery and
bigotry, but they are the exception and not the rule. Take Pennsylvania as
an example. Yes, there are people (and I don't dare use any of the common
words to describe them, lest I offend someone, but you know who I'm talking
about) who live in the Lancaster area without electricity and other modern
conveniences, but they are not exemplary of Pennsylvanians. As for stories
of blacks being harassed by the police, well, the police in The South have a
reputation for harassing everyone. I have been a victim of that myself.
- RODNEY (67 days to go!)
Crank
wrote:
>In article <3ce14682...@news.pipeline.com>, mic...@pipeline.com wrote:
>> I agree with you for the most part, but thought you should know that
>> the word "Poly" is considered derogatory slang. I forget where I read
>> this, either Deb's site or the Tikiman's, but ever since, I've forced
>> myself to type Polynesian. (when I remember and am not in too big of
>> a hurry!)
>> MickeyC
>> 36 days to go
>
>MickeyC - I read that too, and ever since I have been typing out
>Polynesian too! It's on Deb's page http://wdwig.com/faq_poly.htm and it
>says "Can I just call it the Poly for short? You shouldn't. In the
>Polynesian islands, the term "Poly" is actually a racial slur, and
>considered offensive to many people."
>
>Sue
So what's a "wog"?
----
Crank
Rough and Ready A/S92 "All Stars"
http://webpages.charter.net/ib4cruzn/
FirePics. American Heroes at Work:
http://www.imagestation.com/member/?name=T.Cronkhite
ib4cruzn at charter dot net
Maria
>>> the word "Poly" is considered derogatory slang. I forget where I read
>>> this, either Deb's site or the Tikiman's, but ever since, I've forced
>>> myself to type Polynesian
Oh for goodness' sake. Intent is 99% of deragatory slang. I know I'm not trying
to insult some islander when I say Poly.....and everyone on RADP and other
disney boards knows Poly is the hotel. If I ever go to Polynesia, I'll keep the
deragatory slang in mind. But here...it's Poly. Puhleeze....call me UN PC.
Maria
Molly7737
>trying
>to insult some islander when I say Poly.....and everyone on RADP and other
>disney boards knows Poly is the hotel. If I ever go to Polynesia, I'll keep
>the
>deragatory slang in mind. But here...it's Poly. Puhleeze....call me UN PC.
>
Exactly what I was thinking. I mean, I hear kids playing baseball say "He
throws like a girl" So now we can't use the word girl? I live in a wonderful
community called Dixie. Our school is Dixie School. I dare someone come in
and try to change the names.
Lesa
Do Alabama license plates still say "Heart of Dixie" on them"? DH (aka Mr.
Lesa) and I were in our local Fudrucker's over the weekend and one of these
was decorating the wall. We weren't sure if we should laugh about and enjoy
the entropy, or run for cover lest someone become offended at the word. ; )
Lesa
Vox Humana
"Molly7737" <moll...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020529134200...@mb-fe.aol.com...
> >Oh for goodness' sake. Intent is 99% of deragatory slang. I know I'm not
> >trying
> >to insult some islander when I say Poly.....and everyone on RADP and
other
> >disney boards knows Poly is the hotel. If I ever go to Polynesia, I'll
keep
> >the
> >deragatory slang in mind. But here...it's Poly. Puhleeze....call me UN
PC.
> >
>
> Exactly what I was thinking. I mean, I hear kids playing baseball say "He
> throws like a girl" So now we can't use the word girl?
You don't really think that is a valid argument do you?
Lilith
wrote:
>> However, living most of my life in Alabama, I have never heard it sung in
>> that manner. Maybe that song was in fact written as making fun of black
>> slaves.
>Maybe? It was written by the person who invented minstrel show - you know,
>white folks in black face, white pants, calico shirts, striped suspenders,
>white gloves - dancing like fools.. In a search of the history of this
>song, I found that the minstrels went to England to perform Dixie and no one
>there found it amusing. I guess if you didn't have contempt for slaves you
>just didn't "get it."
Was it not written by Stephen Foster? This wasn't a folk song that
sprung up from the masses. I don't think Foster had anything to do
with minstrel shows.
Lil
Rodney T. Grill
"Lesa" <le...@wi.rr.com> wrote in message
news:J19J8.15035$DE5.4...@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
The new tags have the phrase "Stars Fell On" above the numbers and "Alabama"
below, followed by a superscript symbol with the words "Heart of Dixie" in i
t.
TObe
Dixie offensive could just stay home. I am proud to be from Dixie.
If you find my Dixie offensive, stay up North (West, etc.) and I will
enjoy WDW just fine without you.
Steve Russo
1893) discussing the origin of the song:
http://www.civilwarhome.com/dixieorigin.htm
Vox Humana
"Lilith" <lilithp_no_sp...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:3cf531f5....@dscnews.dcccd.edu...
Nope. It wasn't written by Stephen Foster. I did list a little about the
history of the song, its composer, and so on. Since you missed it, I will
paste it below:
Daniel Decatur Emmett is remembered today chiefly for a song he wrote in
1859 . . . Dixie. He is also known for his role in the Virginia Minstrels.
Born in Mount Vernon, Ohio, on October 29, 1815, Emmett grew up in the rough
frontier community, hearing church hymns, the fife and drums of the militia,
and the jolly tunes of the fiddler. He taught himself to play the fiddle and
began composing his own tunes at an early age. Dan first performed his song
Old Dan Tucker at the age of fifteen during a Fourth of July celebration on
the village green in Mount Vernon. At seventeen, he joined the United States
Army, becoming the leading fifer at Jefferson Barracks, Missouri. He was
discharged on July 8, 1835, after the Army learned he had falsified his age
in order to enlist. Afterwards he traveled with various circus bands, where
he learned the technique of Negro impersonation.
In the winter of 1842-43, four stars of the minstrel profession formed a
novel ensemble, consisting of the fiddle, bones, banjo, and tambourine.
Calling themselves the "Original Virginia Minstrels," the four men, Dan
Emmett on the fiddle, Frank Brower on the bones, Billy Whitlock on the
banjo, and Dick Pelham on the tambourine, first performed in public at the
Bowery Amphitheater on February 6, 1843, in New York. This unique ensemble,
along with their song Old Dan Tucker, swept the entire minstrel world.
Wearing ill-assorted garments, oddly shaped hats, and gaudy pants and
shirts, the four Virginia Minstrels were an often rowdy, fun-loving group.
Within a few short months scores of similar minstrel bands were performing
throughout the country. The Original Virginia Minstrels had a short life.
After a financially disastrous tour of the British Isles in 1844, the group
disbanded. All of the minstrels eventually returned to the United States
except Dick Pelham, who remained in England.
Emmett composed Dixie in the spring of 1859, while with Bryant's Minstrels
in New York. The tune, written as a walkaround, became popular almost
immediately and at the outbreak of the Civil War was popular in both the
North and South. In the beginning of the war the troops of both armies
marched to war to the tune of Dixie but by the end of 1861 Dixie had become
identified as a Southern tune, much to the chagrin of Emmett who was
anything but a Southern sympathizer.
In 1881 and 1882, now a man in his sixties, Emmett hit the road with
Leavitt's Gigantean Minstrels, playing Dixie to standing ovations, for which
he was paid $35.00 a week, board, and railroad fare. He was in Chicago in
1888. At the age of eighty, in 1895, he took his last tour with Al Field's
troupe, principally in the South. Emmett retired to Mount Vernon until his
death, June 28, 1904, where he is buried in Mound View Cemetery. There, his
monument is surrounded by an iron fence. A stone and plaque is located on
South Mulbury Street, where his birth place once stood, and a memorial
tribute presented to the city of Mount Vernon by the Ohio Division of the
Daughters of the Confederacy in 1931 is located at the Knox County
Historical Society on Harcourt Road. The Dan Emmett birthplace is an
historic landmark and is now located off South Main Street near the Senior
Citizens Center area next to the Kokosing River where it is open for tours
during special events or by appointments with the Historical Society.
Dan Emmett was married to Catherine Rives in 1853 in New York. They had no
children. She died in 1875. In 1879, he married Mary Louise Bird, a widow
with two daughters.
Songs other than Dixie and Old Dan Tucker credited to Dan Emmett are: Turkey
in the Straw, Old Zip Coon, The Blue Tail Fly, and High Daddy.
Contents compiled from information on file at the Mount Vernon Public
Library by Janet Jacobs for KCRF, August 1996.