Atlantis Plot Holes?
Chris Newcomb
of these reviews seem to mention what they are. I thought it was pretty
tight but maybe I missed something. Any comments?
Chris Newcomb
Jiromi
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Here's a biggie. If Kida couldn't read Atlantean, how did she manage to read
(but misinterpret) the start-up instructions on the ancient aircraft?
Just how many of the original crew survived? Lots of people die, and it seems
like we're down to the main characters, and suddenly Rourke has a bunch of men
fighting for him at the end.
How did they fit those big trucks, that balloon, those fighter planes, and all
that other equipment, on those small vehicles they used to escape the
Leviathan?
There are more, but generally I thought the plot was a confusing mess.
--
Ronnie (TDC Iago, Parrot Royal and Screamer in the Czarina's Ear)
Iago & Zazu's Attraction of the Week http://www.emuck.com/aotw
Iago's Disney Page http://members.aol.com/tdciago/index.html
mailto:jir...@MailandNews.com
Poorly Animated-Man
>Here's a biggie. If Kida couldn't read Atlantean, how did she manage to read
(but misinterpret) the start-up instructions on the ancient aircraft
Well you could suppose that after 8 thousand years of fooling with it she
figured some of it out through trial and error.....I mean figuring to put the
crystal in the hole that looks like it could fit the very crystal that everyone
in the city wears, seems like a no brainer......my question is how did Rourke
know which page to tear out of the journal....lucky guess....I guess?
Raymation
Visit:
Ray's Animation Page
http://raymation.cjb.net
and
http://www.jimmyneutron.com
Steve
raym...@aol.computeThis (Poorly Animated-Man) wrote:
> my question is how did Rourke
> know which page to tear out of the journal....lucky guess....I guess?
What if there's some kind of visual clue. Something that would scream
out to Rourke, "Tear here, you stupid villain!"
I didn't really noticed what the other pages of the journal looked like
when Milo flipped through them, but I think I remembered that the page
Rourke took contained a COLOURED illustration. Maybe the other pages are
colorless. That would explain it. I guess?
b o b c a t @ p a c i f i c . n e t . s g
Jiromi
>my question is how did Rourke
>know which page to tear out of the journal....lucky guess....I guess?
Bingo! That was another one we couldn't figure out.
And wasn't there some discussion early in the film about trying to blow off the
top of the volcano with explosives, but then it was decided that the explosives
expert didn't have enough supplies? My memory is a little fuzzy about what
happened next, but it seemed like Rourke had *no* trouble blowing the top off
when he was escaping. Never gave it a second thought, just did it easily.
Christian Labrie
> of these reviews seem to mention what they are. I thought it was pretty
> tight but maybe I missed something. Any comments?
-The robots creating the shield around the city to protect it from the lava.
What exactly are they? Did Kira give them life with the crystal? Did she
control them?
- Details about the atlantis peoples being able to live for 10 000 years? Ok
the crystal, but more details would have been appreciated.
- Did Kira met her mother when she merged with the crystal, so that she
received the ring she had lost during the terrible flood.
- The tunnel digger's past (don't remember his name...)
- the atlantis people speaking english, give me a break...
- the dialog Milo and Kira had in ancient language when the group fist
arrived in atlantis, is was not translated even if we can imagine what they
were saying.
- What exactly did the king do 10000 years ago with the crystal to cause the
destruction of his continent? Unclear...
many more if I think about it...
Any comments?
Christian
Zippitydoodah
Plot problems with Atlantis (I'd love to hear a response):
1. In the opening, there's a big explosion on the horizon. One of
the guys riding the flying fish turns yells at the other guy and says,
"You fool, you've destroyed us all." Then the wave wipes them out.
Huh? How does this match up with later when the King says he used the
power of the crystal to destroy Atlantis. The problem is... you can
see the crystal floating ABOVE the city of Atlantis when the wave is
speeding at the city --- so how did the crystal cause the explosion
1000's of miles away? This is pathetic. I was expecting Curly and
Moe to be revealed piloting those 2 flying vehicles. Lame saturday
morning dialog as well.
2. Near the beginning, Milo is running after his boss (Mr. Hardcourt)
outside the Smithsonian to prove that he's found proof to get him to
Atlantis. He's brought all his charts and graphs except for the one
thing most important to explaining his discovery: The ancient viking
shield -- that explains the writing and the interpretation on it.
Yeah, I know it was too hard to make the animators draw Milo carrying
this heavy shield.. But this was supposed to be his most important
single piece of evidence. Sloppy.
3. During the journey to Atlantis, at one point the explosives expert
Vinny, can't blow an obstacle out of the way because he only has "10
sticks" of dynamite left. Later, when the bad guys blow up the
bridge, they must have multiple bundles of the stuff -- There's one
shot with at least 15 sticks and then several explosions go off.
4. At one point the group moves through snow. Milo is covered with
Snow. Underground. My wife turned to me and said, "Snow?" I just
shrugged.
A sidenote: At one point, the group encounters "a huge fantastic
monster" that comes out of a huge eyehole of a statue. Instead of a
reaction like, "Holy crap! We've never seen anything like that!"
It's turned into a joke. They never resolved how they dealt with the
monster.
5. The director's have established the group are not walking! They're
all riding in vehicles. At one point, to show how Milo is not part of
the group, DR. Sweet helps everyone walk up a small hill, except
Milo. How does this happen if they are traveling in vehicles? This
is so lame.
6. Right after the Team bursts through the wall and discovers
Atlantis for the first time, the characters have about 5 lines of
spoken English right in front of the Atlanteans (when they have their
masks on) -- but the Atlanteans don't respond to them speaking English
before Milo & Kida do the interpretation thing. It bothered the 6 year
old sitting in front of me... enough to ask his mom why they couldn't
understand them before.
7. This is my personal favorite. How come we never see the sky of
Atlantis? We know we're underground, so where is the light coming
from? Not the crystal -- it's buried under ground. They never do a
shot of the sky. In the finale, you see the walls of the giant cavern
the city of Atlantis is in... but -- YOU NEVER SEE THE SKY!!! This
is amazingly dumb. The 6 year old in front of me had a problem with
this too. Here's probably what happened:
Executive: So, if the city is underground, where is all the light
coming from?
Producer\: Maybe the ceiling is made of glowing crystal.
director: No. That will confuse the audience... see, cause the
"Atlantis crystal" is hidden under the city. We don't want to have
too many crystals. There should only be one crystal.
Exec: Oh. So what do we do?
Director\Producer: We don't show the sky!
cut to: Lots of back-slapping.
8. Kida has just merged with the most powerful force on Earth. She's
this walking crystal thing -- there's a force field around her so the
giant hunks of stone don't fall on her, the water from splashes can't
touch her. And then we cut to her being sealed up in a box. WHAT?!?
How did this happen? How come her sheilds wnet down? How come she
just didn't ascend over the city right then, when she first
transforms. This cut to her being put in a box is the laziest bit of
business I have ever witnessed. A bunch of guys who work at DC comics
in NY, saw this scene and ALL of them burst out laughing at how stupid
it was. I am amazed that someone didn't fix this.
Beyond these plot problems... Here is my opinion of some of the
problems with the storytelling.
0. I hated how they revealed the submarine and all the vehicles as
"toys" before we actually see it. I figured it was an inside joke --
but it spoiled what should have been a cool reveal. Also, the big
computer shot when the sub is first going down... wow! What a waste.
Imagine how cool that could have been if it was from the machine
sea-monster's pov.
1. The blonde character, Helga is 100% wasted and inconsistent.
Sometimes she treats Milo nicely, sometimes she doesn't. There's this
big "get scared" build-up to meeting the Whitmore guy, then he turns
out to be a friendly kook. Why the build up then? They could've told
a much stronger story if they created a love triangle with Helga, Milo
and Kida. If Helga was nice and very supportve of Milo through out
the journey -- then turns out to be evil. At least Milo would have to
make a tough decision near the end. Choose between Helga (and hot
romance) and Kida\Atlantis(wholesome romance). Instead... she's
wasted.
2. Every single decision in the movie the main character, Milo, makes
is obvious. There isn't one tough choice. NOTHING he does surprises
the audience. Okay so he was gonna quit his job anyway -- then he
gets asked to go to Atlantis. Well, that's a tough decision -- of
course he'll go to Atlantis. He teaches the beautiful girl to read,
interprets for her. Boy, that was a tough choice too. At the very
end, of course Milo is going to go after the girl and save the city.
At least in B&B, Belle makes a tough decision -- she's gonna stay in
this horrible castle with Beast to save her father. I heard Michael
J. Fox was disappointed with the "non-arc" his character had. So he
found Atlantis... big deal --- everything was done for him (finding
the book, the expedition, etc, etc...)
3. Roarke -- another white guy villain -- age 25-50 -- to go along
with Gaston (B&B), Clayton (Tarzan), Frollo (Hunchie), Ratcliffe
(Pocahontas), Edgar (Aristocats), McLeach (Rescuers down under), Sykes
(Oliver & Co.), Cruella (dalmations) & her 2 white henchman, Medusa
(Rescuers), Evil Queen (Snow White), Lady Tremaine -- Then there's
Stromboli and Capt. Hook, but because of their "toony-ness", it's hard
to call them the "Disney PC villains". That's still like 12 white bad
guys out of 14 (Jafar & Shan-Yu the exceptions). I'm sure they would
have made Jafar white if they could have. The rest of the villains
are animals or inhuman witches or monsters. This I think was just
more laziness by the storytellers... Wouldn't it have been great if
Helga turned out good and one of the other side-kicks turned out bad
(like the communications lady) -- At least there would have been a
twist.
4. The sterotypes bugged me. Here's the kooky country cook.
Surprise. Here's the black doctor. Oh look, the mechanical genius is
a teenage girl. The digger is a short creepy guy who's french.
5. Mattel: Didn't make action figures of the Latina or Black
characters: Dr. Sweet and Audrey (the mechanic). Why? Because Black
and Latina kids can't afford toys? That sucks.
Still, the efx animation is great! The robots are great. Kida is hot
stuff. I gotta hand it to Disney for trying... but the thing that
really gets me mad is... they ripped off the Japanese anime movie:
Nadia. Regardless of what the directors say. They'll say it's a
coincidence -- but check out the proof, it's just too close:
Marie Kelly
> Still, the efx animation is great! The robots are great. Kida is hot
> stuff. I gotta hand it to Disney for trying... but the thing that
> really gets me mad is... they ripped off the Japanese anime movie:
> Nadia. Regardless of what the directors say. They'll say it's a
> coincidence -- but check out the proof, it's just too close:
>
> http://www.oldcrows.net/Atlantis/
Nadia isn't a movie. It's a TV show. And, from what I've seen, the two
are quite different. After all, Helga's film noir, and Grandis isn't
that at all, for just one example. And Kida's a lot more open and
friendly than Nadia is, at least in the beginning. And Rourke is a
villian, and Captain Nemo isn't.
I've said it before...a lot of the "similarities" sound a lot like Nancy
Stouffer's complaints against J.K. Rowling.
But, please do visit http://utd500.utdallas.edu/~hairston/atlantis.html
Marie
Poorly Animated-Man
>my question is how did Rourke
>know which page to tear out of the journal....lucky guess....I guess?
>Bingo! That was another one we couldn't figure out.
After thinking about this a bit more....Thaddeus Thatch was on the expedition
to recover the journal...perhaps he translated a couple pages....one of which
being about the power source......
Poorly Animated-Man
This isn't really a hole but something to look for should you watch Atlantis
again...take note at the beginning when Milo explains that the translated
Nordic script is wrong.....in the phrase "Coast of Ireland" he says the "R" in
Ireland should really be a "C" for Iceland........but the symbol above the R
is the same as the symbol over the C in Coast...if they translated it wrong to
begin with it would have read "Roast of Ireland".....you'd think the
translators would find that odd....a roast...in Ireland?....hmmmmm
T. "Rufus" Frazier
wrote:
>
>
>Plot problems with Atlantis (I'd love to hear a response):
I notice that the directors were
on the story team. Something which Bluth and company do, and often
seems to result in incoherent, plot hole filled stories. How do you
tell your boss that his idea stinks?
>
>8. Kida has just merged with the most powerful force on Earth. She's
>this walking crystal thing -- there's a force field around her so the
>giant hunks of stone don't fall on her, the water from splashes can't
>touch her. And then we cut to her being sealed up in a box. WHAT?!?
Hey, isn't it obvious? She couldn't use the FORCE as a weapon.
>
>Beyond these plot problems... Here is my opinion of some of the
>problems with the storytelling.
>
>0. I hated how they revealed the submarine and all the vehicles as
>"toys" before we actually see it. I figured it was an inside joke --
>but it spoiled what should have been a cool reveal.
The scenes of the sub and the various underwater vehicles were so
truncated that they had to introduce them earlier so it wouldn't look
like they were pulling them out of their hat. If this were a Japanese
film, they would have spent an extra 5 minutes playing with the
machines. Heck, the same thing if it were George Lukas.
>
>1. The blonde character, Helga is 100% wasted and inconsistent.
She belonged in a different movie. The other crew members were highly
stylized, cartoony designs. She was something out of a Frank Miller or
Dave Stevens comic.
>3. Roarke -- another white guy villain -- age 25-50 --
Roarke and Clayton are bookends. Late 20th century stereotypes of
powerful evil white capitalist imperialists. Roarke's dialog as he
revealed himself as the evil guy was embarrassingly heavy handed and
tedious. Miyazaki's "Laputa" had the same message but did it much
better.
>Still, the efx animation is great! The robots are great. Kida is hot
>stuff.
Kida was drawn as a "babe" all right, but I found her character to
be dull and uninteresting. They needed someone better as the voice
actress, this one just wasn't a stand out character.
Finally, if the Atlantians had lost their technology, then who manned
the obviously mechanized leviathan guarding the place? If it was an
intelligent machine, why were there no others in evidence in the
habitat?
So the Atlantians had lost the ability to read? You mean there were no
adults alive afterwards, or was their school system similar to that in
the US today?
Steve
count...@aol.com (Zippitydoodah) wrote:
> Plot problems with Atlantis (I'd love to hear a response):
>
> 1. In the opening, there's a big explosion on the horizon. One of
> the guys riding the flying fish turns yells at the other guy and says,
> "You fool, you've destroyed us all." Then the wave wipes them out.
> Huh?
Why is the Atlantean army out at sea in the first place?
I think they were at war with another empire.
> How does this match up with later when the King says he used the
> power of the crystal to destroy Atlantis.
In arrogance and ambition, the king used the crystal to build weapons of
destruction. He abused the power of the crystal. In turn, the crystal
destroyed him.
> 2. Near the beginning, Milo is running after his boss (Mr. Hardcourt)
> outside the Smithsonian to prove that he's found proof to get him to
> Atlantis. He's brought all his charts and graphs except for the one
> thing most important to explaining his discovery: The ancient viking
> shield -- that explains the writing and the interpretation on it.
> Yeah, I know it was too hard to make the animators draw Milo carrying
> this heavy shield.. But this was supposed to be his most important
> single piece of evidence. Sloppy.
They were tired of his talk of Atlantis. Whatever he would have propose
would've fallen on deaf ears.
> 7. This is my personal favorite. How come we never see the sky of
> Atlantis? We know we're underground, so where is the light coming
> from? Not the crystal -- it's buried under ground. They never do a
> shot of the sky. In the finale, you see the walls of the giant cavern
> the city of Atlantis is in... but -- YOU NEVER SEE THE SKY!!! This
> is amazingly dumb. The 6 year old in front of me had a problem with
> this too.
If you can accept the logic of a floating, all-powerful crystal, why is
the idea that the city is not illuminated by the sun hard to swallow?
The city also has lots of greenery. How do you suppose they survive
thousands of years without the sun? Atlantis still exist in the realm of
fantasy, does it not?
> 8. Kida has just merged with the most powerful force on Earth. She's
> this walking crystal thing -- there's a force field around her so the
> giant hunks of stone don't fall on her, the water from splashes can't
> touch her. And then we cut to her being sealed up in a box. WHAT?!?
> How did this happen? How come her sheilds wnet down?
Why is it so difficult to imagine that she has control over the force
field? Kida (or shall I say, the crystal) went quite willingly into the
box. Why? Because she/it knew everything would turn out fine, and she/it
told Milo so. In it's infinite wisdom (also having seen many Disney
cartoons), the crystal knew that Milo had it in him to save the day.
:-)
Steve
> -The robots creating the shield around the city to protect it from the lava.
> What exactly are they? Did Kira give them life with the crystal? Did she
> control them?
I think they are part of the defence mechanism the King build along with
the weapons and vehicles. They are all crystal powered.
> - Details about the atlantis peoples being able to live for 10 000 years? Ok
> the crystal, but more details would have been appreciated.
Ban hamburgers and we all could live for 10 000 years. No crystal
required. :-)
> - The tunnel digger's past (don't remember his name...)
The story department wiggled out of this one with a 'you don't want to
know.' Tsk tsk.
> - the atlantis people speaking english, give me a break...
Pocahontas pick up english just by closing her eyes and letting the wind
blow through her hair.
The Atlanteans had to speak english to avoid things like,
"What?! It's a cartoon? WITH subtitles?"
> - What exactly did the king do 10000 years ago with the crystal to cause the
> destruction of his continent? Unclear...
He used the crystal to create machines and weapons of destruction. This
apparently, went against the conscience of the crystal. Thus bringing
about the early retirement of the empire.
VertigoDC
>know which page to tear out of the journal....lucky guess....I guess?
>
I figured he just went for the one with the prettiest picture. ;)
Please just call me Mike instead of VertigoDC.
Not all who wander are lost- J.R.R. Tolkien
Zach Baker
-- SPOILERS --
Poorly Animated-Man wrote:
> >my question is how did Rourke
> >know which page to tear out of the journal....lucky guess....I guess?
>
> >Bingo! That was another one we couldn't figure out.
>
> After thinking about this a bit more....Thaddeus Thatch was on the expedition
> to recover the journal...perhaps he translated a couple pages....one of which
> being about the power source......
You mean perhaps while he was alone with Roarke, maybe with Helga as well?
I can imagine how that conversation could lead to quite a nasty argument.
But of course, all of this would have to be just before Thaddeus Thatch's
unfortunate demise, the details of which are never really mentioned. Hmm.
Of course, this is all just idle speculation, but I think we might be onto
something here.
---
Zach Baker <za...@zachbaker.com>
"Everybody died, and you want to do hot potato?!"
Zach Baker
-- SPOILERS --
Zippitydoodah wrote:
> Plot problems with Atlantis (I'd love to hear a response):
Ehh, I personally didn't think any of these were really problematic,
for various reasons.
> Beyond these plot problems... Here is my opinion of some of the
> problems with the storytelling.
>
> 0. I hated how they revealed the submarine and all the vehicles as
> "toys" before we actually see it. I figured it was an inside joke --
> but it spoiled what should have been a cool reveal. [...]
True. The second and third sequences were weak, full of talky and
somewhat stilted exposition. Curiously, it's in the same part of the
movie that most of Disney's recent movies have an introductory song.
At least it got things out of the way quickly.
> 1. The blonde character, Helga is 100% wasted and inconsistent. [...]
Yeah, Helga really just seemed like Roarke's sidekick. But I admit
that I wasn't paying much attention since I found her character style
and animation so engrossing.
> 2. Every single decision in the movie the main character, Milo, makes
> is obvious. There isn't one tough choice. NOTHING he does surprises
> the audience. [...]
True, the classic reluctant-protagonist structure is violated here.
The story basically gives Milo everything he wants and he takes it.
It's kind of refreshing to have a hero start out gung-ho, although he
regrets it immediately and thereafter. But like a prototypical hero,
Milo must then make the movie's pivotal decision that determines how
the story ends. I don't know if it was much of a surprise, though...
> 3. Roarke -- another white guy villain -- age 25-50 -- to go along
> [...with lots of other Disney villains...]
Big deal. If you want ethnic villains, there's always Pearl Harbor
(and from the reaction to that movie, you see why there aren't more).
Besides, aren't most real-life villains white guys? I'm just saying!
> 4. The sterotypes bugged me. Here's the kooky country cook.
> Surprise.
You mean instead of him being French?
> Here's the black doctor. Oh look, the mechanical genius is
> a teenage girl. The digger is a short creepy guy who's french.
So what other characters are these allegedly stock characters like?
You had a lengthy rundown on similarities with Roarke and other Disney
villains, so I'm wondering. Or did it just bug you that they're all
very deliberately distinct from each other?
> 5. Mattel: Didn't make action figures of the Latina or Black
> characters: Dr. Sweet and Audrey (the mechanic). Why? Because Black
> and Latina kids can't afford toys? That sucks.
Huh? I saw a Dr. Sweet action figure at the drugstore yesterday. I
wouldn't be surprised if there weren't Helga, Audrey or Packard action
figures, though, since big toy companies rarely make action figures of
female supporting characters. They'd probably want to put out a silly
"Atlantean Battle Armor Milo" figure before an Audrey figure. I also
suppose Mrs. Packard is not really suited to being an action figure...
> Still, the efx animation is great! The robots are great. Kida is hot
> stuff. I gotta hand it to Disney for trying... but the thing that
> really gets me mad is... they ripped off the Japanese anime movie:
> Nadia. Regardless of what the directors say. They'll say it's a
> coincidence -- but check out the proof, it's just too close:
>
> http://www.oldcrows.net/Atlantis/
What's going on over there? I thought the original page was amusing,
but now I'm confused.
---
Zach Baker <za...@zachbaker.com>
"It's so tragic the way they hopped on pop."
Jiromi
If nothing else, "Atlantis" will be fodder for some interesting fan fiction.
There are so many holes that need to be filled in, and no shortage of
imaginative viewers to do the filling.
Zippitydoodah
Marie ---
Do you work for Disney or something?
Look, I know creators in all areas steal from each other all the time
-- but Disney has done very little to hide their "inspiration" --
there are too many elements that are too close to Nadia. If you're an
animation fan and you watch Atlantis -- you can see Kirk and Gary and
Don (directors and producer) are trying to make a Miyazaki movie. All
you have to do is watch LaPuta: to see the crumbling rock efx and
airship battles, Jules Verne technology and enchanted crystals
characters wear around their necks. I love that stuff too... but I
wouldn't want to ape something soo closely to have to have a
disney-religion fanatic like Hairston try to defend it, that's all.
Their work should stand on its own -- they shouldn't need some fan
putting up a website explaining "its not that similar", and "no we
didn't rip it off", when all you have to do is look at it to see how
close it is.
Roarke: "I love it when I win." sheesh.
Zippitydoodah
ELurio
unfortunate demise, the details of which are never really mentioned. >>
Undoubtably, Thaddeus was killed in the same way as Lara Croft's father. That
movie was full of plot holes too.
eric l.
Poorly Animated-Man
>You mean perhaps while he was alone with Roarke, maybe with Helga as well?
Thatch's
unfortunate demise.......
Perhaps they could have alluded that Thaddeus wouldn't play ball so Rourke
killed him..almost seemed like he coulda said "Don't be an idealist like your
grandfather...it'll get you killed"..[menacing smile]......gliche sure.....but
then the film has plenty of that.........would have kinda explained the page
deal...
S.t.A.n.L.e.E
>
> Still, the efx animation is great! The robots are great. Kida is hot
> stuff. I gotta hand it to Disney for trying... but the thing that
> really gets me mad is... they ripped off the Japanese anime movie:
> Nadia. Regardless of what the directors say. They'll say it's a
> coincidence -- but check out the proof, it's just too close:
>
> http://www.oldcrows.net/Atlantis/
>
And look what he had to say in
"Crow's reaction after seeing Atlantis"
http://www.oldcrows.net/Atlantis/crowsbit.html
Quote:
After seeing Atlantis,
I must say that it is not Nadia. It doesn't really take much from Nadia
at all. If anything, it is much closer to Laputa. Atlantis was a
decent film, but too short in my opinion. It needed a bit more
storytelling such as the 123 minutes of Laputa offered.
[Ed: Trousdale and Wise are self-admitted Miyazaki fans, so no surprise.]
In six months or so, before Atlantis is out on video but well after the
theatre run is over, perhaps Disney will put Laputa on the big screen
for us. Of the three stories, Laputa is the masterpiece. Nadia had a
great finale (and a great beginning), but way too much time was wasted
in the middle. In fact, I see a lot more of Laputa in the finale of
Atlantis than anything of Nadia in the rest of the film.
End Quote.
Looks like your "proof" even disagrees with you. Nice try.
How about a different POV from another anime fan Dr. Hairston:
http://utd500.utdallas.edu/~hairston/atlantis.html
(Dr. Hairston is an active contributor in the Miyazaki Mailing List
at http://www.nausicaa.net/ as well as in the rec.arts.anime.*
hierarchy, where many other anime fans also agree with him
- if you want to check, step in there yourself and we'll see ya there.)
Laters. =)
STan
--
_______ ________ _______ ____ ___ ___ ______ ______
| __|__ __| _ | \ | | | | _____| _____|
|__ | | | | _ | |\ | |___| ____|| ____|
|_______| |__| |__| |__|___| \ ___|_______|______|______|
__| | ( )
/ _ | |/ Stanlee Dometita sta...@www.cif.rochester.edu
| ( _| | U of Rochester www.cif.rochester.edu/~stanlee
\ ______| _______ ____ ___
/ \ / \ | _ | \ | |
/ \/ \| _ | |\ |
/___/\/\___ |__| |__|___| \ ___|
Chris Newcomb
>field? Kida (or shall I say, the crystal) went quite willingly into the
>box. Why? Because she/it knew everything would turn out fine, and she/it
>told Milo so. In it's infinite wisdom (also having seen many Disney
>cartoons), the crystal knew that Milo had it in him to save the day.
I agree Kida goes willingly -- guess those DC Comics guys were sleeping
through the film. Think about it--the crystal's power is used for
destruction and leads to the downfall of the empire. This downfall continues
to eat away at the city and its inhabitants--the ramifications of the misuse
of the crystal's power. The king hides the crystal away, the people forget
about it, the history is destroyed--this continues the decline as understood
by the line about the crystal thriving on the "collective emotions" of the
people. This is a dying civilization--the king simply existing until the
inevitable end and trying to prevent the crystal's discovery and misuse by
another people. It seems to me that Kida's bonding and the "splashdown" of
the stone king masks is further decay--the crystal has been hidden away for
thousands of years so the next step would be total removal. The Kida/crystal
willingly goes with Roarke--almost as a testing of the people. Will they
reverse their actions and actively prevent the further misuse of the crystal
power? Granted they need Milo's help since they are totally ignorant of the
crystal's very existence, but they seem to take a proactive, reawakened step
by saving Kida and stopping Roarke. When the Kida crystal returns to the
city the decay seems to be reversed--the king stones come up through the
ground, the crystal rises again to its old place above the city, the stone
guardians are summoned again, and the city is restored--not to the decayed
state but to its previous strength.
ErnieChan9
>Roarke: "I love it when I win." sheesh.
>
>Zippitydoodah
>
Actually....it's ROURKE..not Rourke.
ernie
Zach Baker
> >Roarke: "I love it when I win." sheesh.
> >
> >Zippitydoodah
> >
>
> Actually....it's ROURKE..not Rourke.
Heh, I guess I was thinking of another Roarke too. Rourke Rourke Rourke!
---
Zach Baker <za...@zachbaker.com>
"THESE are your best torments?!" "...They tested well."
Kory Anders
Animated-Man) wrote:
>
>>my question is how did Rourke
>>know which page to tear out of the journal....lucky guess....I guess?
>
>>Bingo! That was another one we couldn't figure out.
>
>After thinking about this a bit more....Thaddeus Thatch was on the expedition
>to recover the journal...perhaps he translated a couple pages....one of which
>being about the power source......
Which makes you wonder, what did happen to the old man?
Rinuccio4
characters were very uninteresting and cliched. Liked the visuals a lot, tho.
SDC
Steve
vert...@aol.com (VertigoDC) wrote:
> >my question is how did Rourke
> >know which page to tear out of the journal....lucky guess....I guess?
> >
>
> I figured he just went for the one with the prettiest picture. ;)
You are right. It is the prettiest picture! And Rourke did study the
book, didn't he say to Milo something like, "I see you have the book.
Nice pictures."
Steve
tdc...@aol.comFeathers (Jiromi) wrote:
> Just how many of the original crew survived? Lots of people die, and it seems
> like we're down to the main characters
If you look carefully, there were quite a number of those masked men
BEHIND the main characters during the brief mourning scene.
Steve
tdc...@aol.comFeathers (Jiromi) wrote:
> And wasn't there some discussion early in the film about trying to blow off
> the
> top of the volcano with explosives, but then it was decided that the
> explosives
> expert didn't have enough supplies? My memory is a little fuzzy about what
> happened next, but it seemed like Rourke had *no* trouble blowing the top off
> when he was escaping. Never gave it a second thought, just did it easily.
Before taking over city, Rourke's masked men were shown unloading
weapons from the truck. They have at least one crate of TNT with them.
It seems Rourke brought his own supply.
Steve
Steve <bob...@pacific.net.sg.nospam> wrote:
> In article <f509e823.01061...@posting.google.com>,
> count...@aol.com (Zippitydoodah) wrote:
>
> > Plot problems with Atlantis (I'd love to hear a response):
> >
> > 1. In the opening, there's a big explosion on the horizon. One of
> > the guys riding the flying fish turns yells at the other guy and says,
> > "You fool, you've destroyed us all." Then the wave wipes them out.
> > Huh?
>
> Why is the Atlantean army out at sea in the first place?
>
> I think they were at war with another empire.
>
> > How does this match up with later when the King says he used the
> > power of the crystal to destroy Atlantis.
>
> In arrogance and ambition, the king used the crystal to build weapons of
> destruction. He abused the power of the crystal. In turn, the crystal
> destroyed him.
A friend of mine, who was more attentive, corrected me on this point.
Apparently, underestimating the power of the crystal, the king used it
to build weapons that could attack (bomb, perhaps) another empire, thus
explaining that blinding flash in the beginning. The blast was so
powerful it brought about the huge tidal waves threatening Atlantis
itself. The crystal automatically launched its defence procedures, ie.
claiming a 'host' and then burying the city forever.
Jiromi
>In article <20010616013346...@ng-bh1.aol.com>,
> tdc...@aol.comFeathers (Jiromi) wrote:
>
>> Just how many of the original crew survived? Lots of people die, and it
>seems
>> like we're down to the main characters
>
>If you look carefully, there were quite a number of those masked men
>BEHIND the main characters during the brief mourning scene.
Why should we have to look carefully? Why must we come up with intricate
theories to explain major plot points that Disney didn't make clear? The point
is, the finished product left many viewers, including professional movie
critics, confused.
The first thing my daughter said to me when the movie ended was "I didn't
understand that." She's 10, and she's *never* said that about a Disney film.
I had to agree with her. There were simply too many things unexplained, or
poorly explained.
ShadZ
> >Why is it so difficult to imagine that she has control over the force
> >field? Kida (or shall I say, the crystal) went quite willingly into the
> >box. Why? Because she/it knew everything would turn out fine, and she/it
> >told Milo so. In it's infinite wisdom (also having seen many Disney
> >cartoons), the crystal knew that Milo had it in him to save the day.
The below synopsis is how I saw the film's backstory too. And I wasn't
filling any gaps, it was all there in the movie
> I agree Kida goes willingly -- guess those DC Comics guys were sleeping
> through the film. Think about it--the crystal's power is used for
> destruction and leads to the downfall of the empire. This downfall continues
> to eat away at the city and its inhabitants--the ramifications of the misuse
> of the crystal's power. The king hides the crystal away, the people forget
> about it, the history is destroyed--this continues the decline as understood
> by the line about the crystal thriving on the "collective emotions" of the
> people.
I would like to add that much of the "forgetting" (how the crystal worked,
how to read written Atlantian) was encouraged/caused by the King, so the
Atlantians woud never abuse the crystal's power in the future (if they can't
use it, they can't abuse it). He took things way too far, however . . .
> This is a dying civilization--the king simply existing until the
> inevitable end and trying to prevent the crystal's discovery and misuse by
> another people.
. . . and his own people too
> It seems to me that Kida's bonding and the "splashdown" of
> the stone king masks is further decay--the crystal has been hidden away for
> thousands of years so the next step would be total removal. The Kida/crystal
> willingly goes with Roarke--almost as a testing of the people. Will they
> reverse their actions and actively prevent the further misuse of the crystal
> power? Granted they need Milo's help since they are totally ignorant of the
> crystal's very existence, but they seem to take a proactive, reawakened step
> by saving Kida and stopping Roarke. When the Kida crystal returns to the
> city the decay seems to be reversed--the king stones come up through the
> ground, the crystal rises again to its old place above the city, the stone
> guardians are summoned again, and the city is restored--not to the decayed
> state but to its previous strength.
Right. I'm surprised at how many people didn't get this.
Now, here is some gap-filling I did, in my mind:
1. Atlantians can speak all modern languages, because Atlantian is the root
that they all come from? No, that's stupid. The real reason (that no one
could have guessed at the time) is probably because the crystal provides
acts as a universal translator for Atlantians. Quite useful, when
they were a superpower.
Ok, there was more, but I can't rememeber now . . .
ShadZ
Steve
jacka...@go.com (ShadZ) wrote:
Kida did say that such knowledge (reading) were lost about the time of
the great flood. The Atlanteans didn't even know the true cause of the
flood. The king allowed his people to believe that the gods were jealous
of Atlantis and so brought about the catastrophe.
Steve
tdc...@aol.comFeathers (Jiromi) wrote:
> bobcat wrote:
> >In article <20010616013346...@ng-bh1.aol.com>,
> > tdc...@aol.comFeathers (Jiromi) wrote:
> >
> >> Just how many of the original crew survived? Lots of people die, and it
> >seems
> >> like we're down to the main characters
> >
> >If you look carefully, there were quite a number of those masked men
> >BEHIND the main characters during the brief mourning scene.
>
> Why should we have to look carefully?
> Why must we come up with intricate
> theories to explain major plot points that Disney didn't make clear?
The frantic pace of the movie didn't really allow room for indulging in
lengthy and potentially dull expositions. However, pieces of the
backstory are strewn all over the movie in bits of visual or words. I
don't feel this made the film any less fun.
> the finished product left many viewers, including professional movie
> critics, confused.
You mean those people who applauded 'Shrek' even with it's deplorable
message about inner beauty?
Jiromi
>The frantic pace of the movie didn't really allow room for indulging in
>lengthy and potentially dull expositions. However, pieces of the
>backstory are strewn all over the movie in bits of visual or words. I
>don't feel this made the film any less fun.
I do. There were several points where I got so distracted trying to figure out
what had just happened, that I probably missed something else that followed.
If they wanted to tell this story well in 96 minutes, they would have done
better to cut out a couple of the "colorful" characters on the expedition, and
focus more on the story. Bits and pieces strewn all over the movie just don't
cut it for me.
>You mean those people who applauded 'Shrek' even with it's deplorable
>message about inner beauty?
I guess this is a jab at movie critics, but it really has nothing to do with
the fact that many viewers, even those who watch movies for a living, found it
difficult to patch together all those bits and pieces. Did Disney let Vinny
blow up the plot?
Poorly Animated-Man
>...even those who watch movies for a living, found it
difficult to patch together all those bits and pieces
Well who listens to critics....Tomb Raider made a crap load of dough this past
week (but oh yeah Ebert liked that one) and The Mummy Returns is about to break
$200 million....
K dub K
>> This is a dying civilization--the king simply existing until the
>> inevitable end and trying to prevent the crystal's discovery and misuse by
>> another people.
<lots of good hand waving and explaining snipped>
>Right. I'm surprised at how many people didn't get this.
How can you be surprised, when it's not really part of the film?!? I have to
agree with much of the exposition that you guys have come up with. You've
probably correctly guessed much of what the Disney story crew was thinking.
But let's face the truth: none of that was remotely clear to 99% of the viewing
audience, except perhaps in retrospect. C'mon, this wasn't supposed to be
another version of Memento. Where did the film take a moment to actually
contrast old Atlantis to the decaying version? Where was the comment by Kida or
some other Atlantian expressing frustration at their dying state? Some of the
scenery was shown to be in ruins, but the people seemed perfectly content and
vital. Having a flood is one thing, but an entire advanced people suddenly
forget how to read?!? And they can speak any language but can't figure out
their own over thousands of years? You can keep suggesting that perhaps the
crystal caused that, too, but you'd be pulling it out of thin air. The
Atlantians were portrayed as if they were some peaceful, primitive, and happy
natives on some South Pacific island a hundred years ago. All this amounts to
terrible storytelling, and it robs the ending of the power it should have had.
>1. Atlantians can speak all modern languages, because Atlantian is the root
>that they all come from? No, that's stupid.
It's beyond stupid. It was insulting.
>The real reason (that no one
>could have guessed at the time) is probably because the crystal provides
>acts as a universal translator for Atlantians.
Great idea, but it means that the crystal's power was reaching the people just
fine. And, again, on a storytelling level it's even worse. Why give a false
explaination within the film, and never correct it?
lapin
> understand that." She's 10, and she's *never* said that about a Disney film.
> I had to agree with her. There were simply too many things unexplained, or
> poorly explained.
>
It is for this reason that all the studios can do is remake the same tired
old films. I for one am glad that they got this film made. Too bad all the
sheep will bleat that it comfuses them. So we get more remakes of stuff
that was bad in the 60s to start with.
Shsh, we must not be frightened. Everything must be resolved and reset
every 48 to 56 minutes.
-julie
--
It is a matter of grave importance that fairy tales should be
respected ... everyone who has considerd the subject knows full well
that a nation, without fancy, without some romance, never did, never
can, never will, hold a great place under the sun
-- Charles Dickens Frauds and Fairies.
K dub K
>> The first thing my daughter said to me when the movie ended was "I didn't
>> understand that."
>It is called imagination. Something I think the world is sorely lacking.
It's a little too convienent to dismiss this child's complaint as if something
was wrong with her. I enjoyed Atlantis, and it mostly made sense to me, but
only because I was able to connect the dots that the filmmakers didn't connect.
In a few places I even had to invent some extra dots to make all those
connections fit.
The filmmakers made some major mistakes in telling the story. It was clear to
me (and perhaps this comes from seeing the work prints of many films and then
seeing the final versions) that completed scenes were cut or edited. It's
often the case that story elements and plot points are sacrificed to pacing (or
simply to misjudgment) during the long process of making an animated film. The
confusion that results isn't the mark of superior imagination, it's the sad
residue of too many hands stirring the pot.
VertigoDC
>weapons from the truck. They have at least one crate of TNT with them.
>It seems Rourke brought his own supply.
That's what I assumed. I mean, Audrey said he was prepared. When I saw it, I
just said "Oh, he's got his own supply."
Although, I have to admit, I didn't suspect Rourke as the villain until they
actually get Atlantis and he talks to helga about the plans not changing. That
might make me an idiot, but I hanestly had no idea who would be the villain.
And when all the crew went along with him, that was a surprise to me, too (I
thought he would just have some of his masked men with him).
Please just call me Mike instead of VertigoDC.
Not all who wander are lost- J.R.R. Tolkien
Zach Baker
> It was clear to me (and perhaps this comes from seeing the work prints of
> many films and then seeing the final versions) that completed scenes were
> cut or edited.
Well, aside from the already-mentioned Viking sequence, it's worth noting
that Disney is auctioning off copies of the Atlantis script, which has a
description mentioning drafts from 6/20/2000, 11/21/2000 and 1/3/2001(!).
More than I needed to know, thank you. OK, maybe they're minor changes,
but surely they included removing the mushroom cloud seen in the trailer
(and, I suppose, adding the lens flare o' doom!).
---
Zach Baker <za...@zachbaker.com>
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem!"
Steve
kd...@aol.com (K dub K) wrote:
> Where did the film take a moment to actually
> contrast old Atlantis to the decaying version?
You don't see the difference between the Atlantis in opening sequence to
the Atlantis later in the movie?
Let me guess, you were late, the theatre was too dark and you couldn't
find your seat? :-)
> Where was the comment by Kida
> or
> some other Atlantian expressing frustration at their dying state?
I remember Kida's comment to Milo about Atlantis not 'thriving' and how
atlantis is like a rock being eroded by the sea.
> Having a flood is one thing, but an entire advanced people suddenly
> forget how to read?!? And they can speak any language but can't figure out
> their own over thousands of years? You can keep suggesting that perhaps the
> crystal caused that, too, but you'd be pulling it out of thin air.
The butler, disguised as the King of Atlantis, did it.
:-)
Steve
tdc...@aol.comFeathers (Jiromi) wrote:
> There were several points where I got so distracted trying to figure
> out
> what had just happened, that I probably missed something else that followed.
> If they wanted to tell this story well in 96 minutes, they would have done
> better to cut out a couple of the "colorful" characters on the expedition,
> and
> focus more on the story. Bits and pieces strewn all over the movie just
> don't
> cut it for me.
Basically , I disagree that the movie had too many plot-holes. Just
because you skipped over something, it doesn't mean that there's a hole.
I still think the story is pretty tight (albeit not VERY interesting).
Looking at all the confused posts here, unfortunately, the same cannot
be said about the storytelling.
Back to the formula? Oh groan.
Raymond Chuang
news:20010619040312...@ng-cc1.aol.com...
> Although, I have to admit, I didn't suspect Rourke as the villain until
they
> actually get Atlantis and he talks to helga about the plans not changing.
That
> might make me an idiot, but I hanestly had no idea who would be the
villain.
> And when all the crew went along with him, that was a surprise to me, too
(I
> thought he would just have some of his masked men with him).
Well, before we got to Atlantis Rourke did look like a pretty reasonable guy
most of the time.
I think what turned most everyone else against Rourke was their realization
that removing Kida from Atlantis would literally destroy that culture.
--
Raymond Chuang
Mountain View, CA USA
ShadZ
> >From: jacka...@go.com (ShadZ)
>
> >> This is a dying civilization--the king simply existing until the
> >> inevitable end and trying to prevent the crystal's discovery and misuse by
> >> another people.
>
> <lots of good hand waving and explaining snipped>
>
> >Right. I'm surprised at how many people didn't get this.
>
> How can you be surprised, when it's not really part of the film?!? I have to
> agree with much of the exposition that you guys have come up with. You've
> probably correctly guessed much of what the Disney story crew was thinking.
> But let's face the truth: none of that was remotely clear to 99% of the
> viewing
> audience, except perhaps in retrospect. C'mon, this wasn't supposed to be
> another version of Memento.
All I can say is I got this all from the movie, with just maybe a minute or
two of thought while the credits rolled. I thought it was all there in the
movie, implicitly stated
> Having a flood is one thing, but an entire advanced people suddenly
> forget how to read?!? And they can speak any language but can't figure out
> their own over thousands of years? You can keep suggesting that perhaps the
> crystal caused that, too, but you'd be pulling it out of thin air.
In my original post, I did say the language issue was a problem, and
suggested a solution involving the crystal that I admitted was out of thin air.
My post had two parts: Stuff that I felt was implicit in the movie and was
surprised so many critics (and other viewers) missed, and stuff that was
genuine plot problems (to which i suggested imaginative solutions not present
in the movie -- not to excuse the movie, but because it's fun). I probably
should have made two seperate posts.
ShadZ
ShadZ
>
> I think what turned most everyone else against Rourke was their realization
> that removing Kida from Atlantis would literally destroy that culture.
Once they found out people still lived there, and they had light, and heat,
etc., everyone should have known that taking the power source (whatever it
was) would doom the Atlantians. Maybe some were hoping that the secret of
the power source could be copied, and the power source itself could be
left behind, but they didn't bring any physicists with them so that's
unlikely. (Maybe their physicist died on the way down.)
I think what turned everyone against Rourke was a combination of
1) Rourke took the power source in the middle of the "day," in front
of the Atlantian's faces, by force (instead of sneaking out in the
"night", which might be easier on the conscience)
2) the power source was merged with Kida (making it kidnapping to boot)
3) they had gotten to know Milo, so they actually listened to his
argument (note that none of the anonymous soldiers defected)
ShadZ
Raymond Chuang
news:d3ef97be.0106...@posting.google.com...
> I think what turned everyone against Rourke was a combination of
> 1) Rourke took the power source in the middle of the "day," in front
> of the Atlantian's faces, by force (instead of sneaking out in the
> "night", which might be easier on the conscience)
> 2) the power source was merged with Kida (making it kidnapping to boot)
> 3) they had gotten to know Milo, so they actually listened to his
> argument (note that none of the anonymous soldiers defected)
I personally think that Vinny, Audrey and Dr. Sweet took a liking to Milo,
and I think that proved to be critical when most of the party refused to be
part of Rourke's plans. Especially Dr. Sweet--he took to liking Milo first.
K dub K
>> Where did the film take a moment to actually
>> contrast old Atlantis to the decaying version?
>
>You don't see the difference between the Atlantis in opening sequence to
>the Atlantis later in the movie?
I knew you'd say that. The opening sequence was about a massive wave
destroying Atlantis. We didn't have time to see how the city and its
inhabitants functioned. Careful observers would notice that the buildings were
taller and the people flew around, but that opening sequence in no way
established what kind of world Atlantis originally was.
>> Where was the comment by Kida
>> or
>> some other Atlantian expressing frustration at their dying state?
>
>I remember Kida's comment to Milo about Atlantis not 'thriving' and how
>atlantis is like a rock being eroded by the sea.
Yep. Take a look at how vague those comments are. What exactly does "not
thriving" mean? The film did not begin to sell this part of the story. It was
left to our imaginations to fill in the blanks, and that robbed the ending of
the drama they intended.
K dub K
>All I can say is I got this all from the movie, with just maybe a minute or
>two of thought while the credits rolled.
Exactly!! You figured it out AFTER the fact. Are we supposed to feel the
drama of the climax AFTER the film? That is bad filmmaking, especially since
most people won't be as thoughtful as you were.
Steve
kd...@aol.com (K dub K) wrote:
> I knew you'd say that. The opening sequence was about a massive wave
> destroying Atlantis. We didn't have time to see how the city and its
> inhabitants functioned. Careful observers would notice that the buildings
> were
> taller and the people flew around, but that opening sequence in no way
> established what kind of world Atlantis originally was.
>
> >> Where was the comment by Kida
> >> or
> >> some other Atlantian expressing frustration at their dying state?
> >
> >I remember Kida's comment to Milo about Atlantis not 'thriving' and how
> >atlantis is like a rock being eroded by the sea.
>
> Yep. Take a look at how vague those comments are. What exactly does "not
> thriving" mean? The film did not begin to sell this part of the story. It
> was
> left to our imaginations to fill in the blanks, and that robbed the ending of
> the drama they intended.
There are some who are surprised that it's not live-action, and then
there are those who are surprised that it's not a documentary.
V
Peace.
K dub K
>There are some who are surprised that it's not live-action, and then
>there are those who are surprised that it's not a documentary.
You're trying to create a straw man. Live action films and documentaries can
be just as full of plot holes and inconsistencies. What I desired in Atlantis
is not those film forms, but great cartoon fun that makes sense without
belabored post hoc analysis. Even the simplest children's book needs to be
internally consistent to be fully enjoyable.
Enrico F. Spada
"Steve" <bob...@pacific.net.sg.nospam> wrote in message
news:bobcat-721329....@newton3.pacific.net.sg...
> In article <20010616024606...@ng-mq1.aol.com>,
> raym...@aol.computeThis (Poorly Animated-Man) wrote:
>
> > my question is how did Rourke
> > know which page to tear out of the journal....lucky guess....I guess?
>
> out to Rourke, "Tear here, you stupid villain!"
>
> I didn't really noticed what the other pages of the journal looked like
> when Milo flipped through them, but I think I remembered that the page
> Rourke took contained a COLOURED illustration. Maybe the other pages are
> colorless. That would explain it. I guess?
>
Or maybe there was a huge illustration of the CRYSTAL Rourke was looking
for.
Jim Lyons
> agree with much of the exposition that you guys have come up with. You've
> probably correctly guessed much of what the Disney story crew was thinking.
> But let's face the truth: none of that was remotely clear to 99% of the
> viewing audience, except perhaps in retrospect.
I agree. I liked the film, even with its obvious holes. But a film which
is intended primarily for young people, even though everyone knows a lot
of adults will view it as well, should not leave so much to the imagination,
sophisticated interpretation, or to multiple viewings. Most people won't give
it that much thought and will just be confused and, worse, disappointed.
> Having a flood is one thing, but an entire advanced people suddenly
> forget how to read?!?
Well, the continent of Europe forgot Latin, except for the relatvely small
cadre of priests and monks, even though it maintained a society at least
as vibrant as the Atlantean through the middle ages. Also, the Europeans
forgot Latin in only a few hundred years.
> And they can speak any language but can't figure out
> their own over thousands of years?
They could understand the language, they just couldn't read the letters,
hieroglyphics, or whatever, which made it up. When Milo read text in
the Atlantean language, the Atlanteans could understand it perfectly well.
Jim Lyons
K dub K
>Well, the continent of Europe forgot Latin, except for the relatvely small
>cadre of priests and monks, even though it maintained a society at least
>as vibrant as the Atlantean through the middle ages. Also, the Europeans
>forgot Latin in only a few hundred years.
There are a few problems with this analogy. What was the original literacy
rate for Latin? I don't think it was ever very high, probably 10% or less of
the population at the height of the Roman Empire. Atlantis was so advanced
that a much higher literacy rate was implied (having flying machines alone
implies a science and engineering base that cannot happen without an extensive,
broad, and advanced education system). Also, Latin died out in large measure
because there were massive waves of invasion, with new dominant cultures and
new languages, and periods of active suppression and destruction of Latin
texts. This wasn't part of the picture in Atlantis. And, even with all that,
as you point out, Latin could still be read by the elite, even in the darkest
of the dark ages. Surely Kida qualified as one of the elite. The biggest
problem, of course, is that the decline in Latin came over generations. In
Atlantis, this was basically the same generation that had been able to read at
the start of the picture!
>> And they can speak any language but can't figure out
>> their own over thousands of years?
>
>They could understand the language, they just couldn't read the letters,
>hieroglyphics, or whatever, which made it up.
My point was that they had a tremendous, other-worldly ability with language.
It would not have taken very long to "reverse engineer" and match sounds to
symbols.
SandG
>know which page to tear out of the journal....lucky guess....I guess?
He must've looked at the pictures.
Nathan Fisk
> Plot problems with Atlantis (I'd love to hear a response):
> 1. In the opening, there's a big explosion on the horizon. One of
> the guys riding the flying fish turns yells at the other guy and says,
> "You fool, you've destroyed us all." Then the wave wipes them out.
> Huh? How does this match up with later when the King says he used the
> power of the crystal to destroy Atlantis. The problem is... you can
> see the crystal floating ABOVE the city of Atlantis when the wave is
> speeding at the city --- so how did the crystal cause the explosion
> 1000's of miles away? This is pathetic. I was expecting Curly and
> Moe to be revealed piloting those 2 flying vehicles. Lame saturday
> morning dialog as well.
To address this comment nearly 19 years later lol.
The King of Atlantis mentions that he's overused and abused the power of the crystal and ultimately ended up destroying the city. When the two men are seen ringing the bell in the introduction and the other two men along with an entire fleet of presumed Atlantean soldiers are flying back toward the city, three ships or automatons resembling the Leviathan encountered by Milo later in the movie are seen in hot pursuit.
The King actually tells Milo that 10 thousand years earlier he grew too ambitious with the power of the crystal and sought to weaponize its power. The king didn't need to move the crystal itself to build weapons and crafts that would run on the crystals power. This point is clarified by the 'fish-planes' being activated by the crystal necklaces.
The Crystal itself did not cause the explosion, but a weapon or craft with the crystals power and energy very well may have caused the explosion.
As a reminder, the crystal was discovered by the Atlanteans when it crash landed on earth, it was a fallen piece of a passing by comet. (Disney Fiction at its finest)
Now again I'll reiterate that the King of Atlantis at that time 10k years prior sought to abuse the power of the crystal to use as a weapon.
It is pointed out in the movie that the crystal can 'feel' things and essentially think on its own and is autonomous.
Back to the explosion, since the one Atlantean is shown shouting at another as they escape, it can be deduced that the explosion was due to a misfire of an Atlantean weapon, hence why he said "You fool! you've destroyed us all!"
Obviously the crystal could sense when it's energy was being used since it is described to be autonomous, the crystal sensed the misfire and the coming wave since the light emitting from it turned bright red. As a safety feature I suppose, the crystal would select a member of the Atlantean royal family to absorb into itself to protect in the event of a disaster (Such as this one) this explains why the crystal absorbed Kida's mother.
What isn't explained is why the mother was never returned.
Since the crystal is supposedly autonomous and could sense that it's own power was being abused, the crystal may likely have plunged itself and the city within the shield underground as well as not returning Kida's mother as a way to punish the King for his abuse of power.