Ballroom Dance Floors-care cleaning & construction
ahg...@aol.com
Over the years , ballroom dancing (dance) floors have been a topic of
endless concern and discussion to both beginning dancers as well as advanced
dancers. I have danced on surfaces (represented as dance floors) ranging
from wood, black top, bricks, slate, cement and kentile.
The best dance floor I have danced on was referred to as a "sprung" floor.
This type of floor I'm told provides some resiliency to the dancers which
resiliency is not provided by other surfaces. Tongue and groove
hardwood(maple or oak) are best for durability and comfort to the dancing
feet. I'm told that the wood is laid over a base of plywood and the plywood
is laid over a variety of wood firring strips that all contractors do not
agree upon. Most were in agreement that laying the wood surface directly over
a concrete slab would cost the least but would be the floor least likely to
survive
heavy traffic or maintenance. I will not question their logic.
I do know from experience that the ideal situation is not always attainable
when it comes to finding comfortable dancefloors . When I have danced for
any length of time (over and hour or two) on a floor laid over concrete I get
what is known as "shin splints". The ailment occurs the next day (or at
least the symptoms) up the front of my lower legs where the muscle (s) attach
to the "shin bone". I have found the same problem when dancing on
"beautifully kept" gym floors used for "sports" and ballroom dancefloor
alternatively. The wood on gym floors is usually laid on end (as opposed to
the flat side)
and then the surface which is usually very beautiful to the eye is provided
with a protection of some nonskid polyurethane lacquer. For basketball
players in "sneakers" or "other rubber soled foot gear" it is ideally suited.
For my thin soled capezios I find the floor a bit too slow and too "hard"..A
FLOOR , BARE OF LACQUER AND/OR WAX "POLISHED BY THOUSANDS FEET OF BALLROOM
DANCERS" SEEMS THE BEST SURFACE TO DANCE ON. THE LESS WAX YOU PUT ON IT THE
BETTER IT FEELS TO THE DANCING FEET OF BALLROOM DANCERS.
I have encountered beautiful"to the eye" highly polished floors with silicone
wax protectant that is very dangeroous to ballroom dancers. I SUPPOSE YOU
NEED TO VACUUM IT AND PERHAPS KEEP IT FROM "MOISTURE" WHICH WARPS THE WOOD
AND "CUPS" THE INDIVIDUAL PLANKING. THE LESS MAINTENACE THE BETTER IT SEEMS.
I have tried various resins (ROSINS) on my leather soled dance shoes but I
have found it to be trublesome and "messy". I havbe also tried balloroom
shoes with "suede leather" on the soles. Although they inhibited "slipping
and sliding" on a fast floor
somehow I didn't like the feel of the floor so I went from what Capezio
called "a ballroom shoe" to a "character" shoe. Until
I discussed this difference with the vendor I wasn't totally aware of the
difference it would make in my dancing comfort.
Hope I have helped with this rambling contribution.
sincerely A HGb...@aol.com
Michael Malak
>The best dance floor I have danced on was referred to as a "sprung" floor.
>This type of floor I'm told provides some resiliency to the dancers which
>resiliency is not provided by other surfaces. Tongue and groove
>hardwood(maple or oak) are best for durability and comfort to the dancing
>feet. I'm told that the wood is laid over a base of plywood and the plywood
>is laid over a variety of wood firring strips that all contractors do not
>agree upon.
And for added comfort, you can put rubber strips beneath the firing strips.
I was looking into getting a dance floor for the basement of the house
I just bought -- until I discovered the entire upper floor is all hardwood.
So the joists should provide natural springing, especially since it's
on the upper level!
People think I'm crazy for sacrificing the living room and the dining room
(there will be no furniture there). They just don't understand.
co...@hal.hahnemann.edu
concrete. The studio owner used a combination of wood palettes, insulation
board, 3/4" plywood and roll-down Marley floor covering. It actually bounced.
It was good to dance on. The misaligned seams of the covering gave us the
most trouble.
Paul
kati...@stumpy.geography.wisc.edu
>>The best dance floor I have danced on was referred to as a "sprung" floor.
>>This type of floor I'm told provides some resiliency to the dancers which
>>resiliency is not provided by other surfaces. Tongue and groove
>>hardwood(maple or oak) are best for durability and comfort to the dancing
>>feet. I'm told that the wood is laid over a base of plywood and the plywood
>>is laid over a variety of wood firring strips that all contractors do not
>>agree upon.
>And for added comfort, you can put rubber strips beneath the firing strips.
>I was looking into getting a dance floor for the basement of the house
>I just bought -- until I discovered the entire upper floor is all hardwood.
>So the joists should provide natural springing, especially since it's
>on the upper level!
And for an added little bit of fakelore:
A friend of mine, WHO SWEARS THIS IS TRUE ;-) , says he danced on a floor
constructed with used tires salvaged from a junk yard. The construction is the
same as above except the firring strips (I assume that is what they are called
although he didn't use that expression) are in a grid pattern -- two layers, one
laid out north-south over another laid out east-west. The two layers were
separated by a layer of tires placed strategically at every grid intersection.
I suppose if it doesn't work as a dance floor, it would make a great indoor
trampolene.
Dave Golber
Any arrangement where there is a vertical line from the surface
of the floor entirely through wood to concrete will have zero spring
at that point, since the compressibility of wood is too small to matter
for this purpose.
Here is what I posted a while back about what I
got done in the back room of my house. It is definitely good. Some other
people have used this method, and agree. (Should this be in the
dancing-FAQ?):
>From dgo...@aero.org (Dave Golber)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.dance,rec.folk-dancing
Subject: Re: Portable Floor Responses
Date: 11 Feb 1993 16:24:29 GMT
Content-Length: 1661
In article <1lbjuu...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> su...@helios.ucsc.edu (Brian Sutin) writes:
>
>What exactly is the construction of a "sprung wood floor" -- does it
>really have springs, how big are they, and is there some kind of damping
>used?
>
Sometimes, I think, "sprung" means the floor is on wood beams above
an open space ... So if you want one, all you gotta do is
dig a basement underneath ...
More seriously: we had a wood floor put in our back room (16'x24')
for dance. We had it "sprung". Here's what goes down, starting from
the bottom:
Original cruddy concrete slab.
Special very-liquid (and expensive) concrete to level slab.
Plastic film vapor barrier
Little rubber thingies, about 2" square and 1/2" thick,
specially made for this sort of thing.
1/2" plywood running THIS way
1/2" plywood running THAT way
3/4" oak strips.
Finish.
It was rather expensive ... the special concrete to level the
old slab was a good part of it.
Apparently some architects and floor people know all about this stuff,
if you just say "dance floor" or "sprung floor". On the other hand,
we had some floor guys come over to look at it to bid on it, and they
weren't interested enough to give us a reply of any kind!
The result: when you jump up and down, someone can see the floor give under
you. The result to you: no pain!
As for finish: gettinng the finish you want may be hard. The typical
"dance" floor is much too slick for folk-dancer types. My suggestion
is to get a cooperative contractor, and have him do samples
until you like that sample.
Give me a call if you want to talk more. I could look up my records.
Dave Golber
310/391-1269
>From dgo...@uniblab.aero.org Fri Mar 12 17:15:56 1993
Posted-Date: Fri, 12 Mar 93 14:15:08 PST
From: dgo...@uniblab.aero.org (Dave Golber)
To: to...@archimedes.ae.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Dancefloors
* I am assisting in the construction of a dancefloor. The space is a large
* commercial storefront (used to be a Kinko's copies) with a concrete slab
* floor. If you could answer a coupla questions, I would be grateful:
*
* 1. How far apart were the rubber thingies spaced? Since you used
* plywood running in both directions, I assume they were spaced the
* same in both directions.
one foot on centers in both directions.
The plywood was one layer running parallel to one wall, one layer
running parallel to the other wall. No necessary relation to the spacing of the
rubber thingies. Call me and I'll give you the brand name of them.
The whole thing is known to the right kind of architects as a "dance floor",
I believe.
*
* 2. How were the edges of your plywood sheets connected to one another?
Not at all. The whole thing is held together (I think) by the nails which
hold the strips to the plywood. They go through both layers.
(I'm not sure of this point. Call me
and I'll check the records. If they don't indicate, I could call the guy
who did the work.)
*
* 3. How bad (how do you quantify this sort of thing?) does the slab have
* to be to require leveling cement, and what are the consequenses if
* it is not used?
In my case, the slab was really tilted. Had to be done.
The floor guy cared enough about flatness (as opposed to tilt) that he
used roofing felt, cut to fit, to even up depressions that were perhaps 1/8"
deep across several feet. I can't tell you just _how_ necessary this was.
*
* 4. What would be the consequences of leaving out the vapor barrier?
My impression from what I've read is that the vapor barrior is real important, since
moisture from/through the slab can do awful things to the oak. Like making
it expand, and rise up like there were gophers underneath.
*
* 5. Your opinion of this design:
*
* 3/4" oak flooring on 3/4" plywood running only one direction
* over 2"x4" studs laid directly upon concrete slab. (possibly
* anchored ?) Studs to be spaced more or less at standard joist spacing
* for 3/4" decking both THIS way and THAT way. The studs would lie with
* the 4" face vertical, giving (nominally) a 4" clearance between slab
* and decking.
*
* This will of course be springier between joists and stiffer over them.
*
My comments:
(1) Yes, you need a vapor barrier.
(2) You will have NO spring over the joists. Wood doesn't compress.
(3) You've used 4+3/4+3/4 inches of vertical space in your room.
It you have a high ceiling, it doesn't matter. (In my case, it did.)
Total height in my case: 1/2+1/2+1/2+3/4 inches.
-----------------------
Give me a call, and I can look up names, etc. 310/391-1269. Los ANgeles evenings.
Also: there are lots of do it yourself books about floors. They don't much
talk about making them springy, but they'll tell you about vapor barriers, etc.
I don't do floors myself, but I consider myself a fairly experienced wood worker.
I was considering an arrangement maybe like this:
1/2x2 inch, on flat side, running north/south
2x4 on flat side, running EW
1/2x2, on flat side, running N/S
plywood
oak.
The idea would have been that the 1/2x2s and 2x4s would be arranged in
such a way that in no place was there a straight line entirely though wood
to concrete. But then one has to figure out spacings, so as to get the
right amount of spring. And the loss of vertical space would be
1/2+2+1/2+3/4.
Having seen what my floor guy did, I think it's better, with the possible
caveat that some arrangement like the one I was thinking of might be less
sensitive to flatness of the underlying slab.
Dave Golber
Thomas Power
so I wrote this elsewhere; please forgive the non-standard
attribution.)
The following was posted here by Dave Golber (dgo...@aero.org)
>More seriously: we had a wood floor put in our back room (16'x24')
>for dance. We had it "sprung". Here's what goes down, starting from
>the bottom:
>
>Original cruddy concrete slab.
>Special very-liquid (and expensive) concrete to level slab.
>Plastic film vapor barrier
>Little rubber thingies, about 2" square and 1/2" thick,
>specially made for this sort of thing.
>1/2" plywood running THIS way
>1/2" plywood running THAT way
>3/4" oak strips.
>Finish.
This was originally a reply to a query of mine asking for
dancefloor information, because I was about to be involved in
the construction of a ~1500 s.f. ballroom floor.
We followed this plan, after having gotten *exactly* the same
story (as well as a nice discount on the "little rubber
thingies") from a local floor builder. Fortunately, the
leveling concrete was not necessary in our case, and we used tar
paper as our vapor barrier. The rubber thingies are stapled to
the bottom of the bottom layer of plywood. I believe we placed
them on 1' centers both directions, but check with a
knowledgeable authority to be sure.
The whole sandwich is held together with the staples or nails
which are shot into the tongues of the flooring strips with a
special pneumatic gun. Our floor guy suggested the staples,
which did work very nicely. (these are very serious staples.)
You must leave space (we were told to leave a half inch) between
the floor structure (plywood as well as flooring) and all walls
in order to accomodate swelling. We were also told to let the
flooring sit for some time (seems like it was > 1 week) in the
room to allow it to shrink or swell in response to the usual
level of humidity in the room, which may be quite different than
that where the flooring was stored before.
This makes for a very nice floor. We were very pleased with it;
it was not squishy by any means, but it was certainly a far cry
from dancing on tiles laid directly on concrete.
I say "was" because not long after we built this floor, the
studio was flooded by a plumbing accident in an adjacent business
and our floor was ruined. The whole thing was torn out and
rebuilt (exactly the way we had done it) by a professional
flooring company (paid for with insurance $.)
My only regret is that the floor was finished with what I
believe was a polyurethane type finish. This made a O.K.
dancing surface, because it was not put on too thick -- the
texture of the wood was still apparent.(unlike the very glassy
appearance of modern maple gymnasium floors)
Nevertheless, I was hoping to follow the suggestion of another
person who replied to my query and just saturate the floor with
linseed oil after sanding it down. Once the floor has soaked
the oil in for a couple of days the excess is wiped off, and the
floor can apparently be used in a matter of days. I was hoping
for this kind of finish because I am in agreement with the
person who mentioned here that his (her?) favorite floor was bare
wood worn smooth by dancing, and I figured this was as close as
we could get and still take proper care of the wood.
--
Thomas Power \ Buy the best mousetrap.
Dept. of Engineering Mechanics \
University of Texas at Austin \ Opinions courtesy of myself only.
to...@archimedes.ae.utexas.edu \
Michael Bergman
floors, but wanted to interject a historical note: I have seen a
victorian "sprung" floor, at Hamilton Hall in Salem, Ma, and because I
was curious I went down to the basement to see how it was done. Of
course, I no longer remember *precisely*, but in general, the joists
that supported the floor were in turn supported by surprisingly small
dimensioned lumber, slightly thicker than firring strips but not a
great deal -- I guess about 2 x 3 -- at angles, something like this:
Floor ________________________________________________
joists | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
springs / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
joists | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
The angles and joints were of course different than what I can show in
ASCII, so that the two sets of joists were able to nest fairly close
together -- it took a little more than twice the normal space for
joists. According to my dim recollections -- this was quite a few
years ago.
I found the floor OK to dance on, certainly not BAD -- I had had my
expectations raised overly high by being told about how wonderful it
was beforehand. I have been on other dance floors that I liked
better. My favorite was the second floor of the Lincoln Town Hall,
which, as far as I could tell, was supported only at the edges. The
center of the floor *really* bounced.
--Mike Bergman
Elaine Mazzi
for unusual dancing venues. I attended a dance in the White Sands National
Park, New Mexico, where the dancing was done in the cool white sand,
barefooted. We were given name badges that honored us as official "sand
fleas". This was square dancing, not swing... no spinning, just a lot
of foot movement. But this was a never to be forgotten event.