What is the best dance floor material?
Bruce W.1
polyurethane seems like it might be too sticky.
Mike Corbett
wrote:
>Of course it's wood, but what kind of wood? And what's the best finish,
>polyurethane seems like it might be too sticky.
Ok, well the very best is clear maple with no finish at all. If you
do use finish, (most common) then you're going to be dancing on the
finish anyway, not the wood. If Master Dance Floors still sells their
finish, I would highly recommend it for feel. If have no idea about
durability.
See: http://www.dance-2000.com/finish.htm
Lots of information in the Rec.arts.dance FAQ as well.
http://www.eijkhout.net/rad/index.html
Mike Corbett - Carrollton, TX
If you can't enjoy yourself, enjoy somebody else. :-)
Chris Stratton
> Of course it's wood, but what kind of wood? And what's the best finish,
> polyurethane seems like it might be too sticky.
I'd argue it's not what the floor is made out of, but how it's
maintained.
And to some degree, what's underneath it.
I know some ordinary commerical tile floors that can be quite nice
surfaces to dance on - though with the wrong wax they are horrid.
Same goes for a nice sprung wood 'aerobics' floor that was useless for
the first few weeks after being heavily refinished, until it got some
dust ground into it.
Conceptually, if you put a heavy coat of polyurethane on a wood floor
(typical basketball court) then you might as well just have a
polyurethane floor on top of some suitably compliant undersupport.
In my mind a real wood dancefloor would be maple with no finish
whatsoever.
Not sure how long that would hold up though.
Carl Porter
>Of course it's wood, but what kind of wood? And what's the best finish,
>polyurethane seems like it might be too sticky.
>
>
poly is fine actually. Bowling alley approaches and dance floors are
quite similar. Both need to be smooth and neither slippery or sticky and
wear well under heavy traffic. Bowling alleys have shifted over to
synthetic surfaces because they last longer and tolerate moisture
better. I had a racquet ball court to take care of for a little while
and some of those floors were synthetic and and others the maple strips.
Both work well if maintained properly. Just stay away from soft finishes.
Warren J. Dew
Ok, well the very best is clear maple with no finish at all.
I agree with the maple; it's also important that it be sprung - laid on a
resilient foundation of some sort - and not just laid directly on concrete.
I disagree with respect to the lack of finish. The best floor I've danced on
was wood treated weekly with Murphy's oil soap. Next best is one which is
cleaned and waxed regularly, say once a week and after anyone walks on it with
anything other than dance shoes.
If hours of weekly maintenance is a problem, polyurethane is acceptable, though
it will be sticky at first. It's still important that the floor be wood,
though; the resiliency of the floor, which is as important as the finish for
dancing, depends on the base floor material and how it is supported.
I would also add that for durability, the wood of the floor should be in the
form of radially cut planks, so that the grain of the wood runs through the
plank rather than parallel to the plan surface. Circumferentially cut planks,
while slightly more comfortable and compliant, will wear quickly enough that
they should be replaced every few years - an expense no one seems interested in
bearing any more.
Warren J. Dew
Powderhouse Software
KT
I agree Maple is the best although probably one of the best floors I
danced on was Oak. It was incredible and seamless and the individual
took very good care of it.
The floor should not be placed directly on concrete but slightly
elevated and vapor pockets should be avoided when raised. Both a
concrete foundation and vapor pockets allow moisture which reduces the
life and durablitiy of the floor.
Oak will also move more with temperature change creating slippage.
Maple will slip but less if the planks are wider than say 8 inches and
have a nice thickness.
Also Maple when left unfinished reflects light better. Maple is more
durable and is smoother. To clean both Maple and Oak can be cleaned
by using a light coat of Vinager and Water. It will take a while to
dry but that will clean about anything.
Kevin Twohig
TANGO 2X2
years ago in my house is no inferior to any one of them. Stuido A has
DanceVison's maple floor with manufacturer's finish. Studio B has local
carpenter installed floating floor which apppeared to be red oak planks with
too much of finish(too slippery in the first year, its getting much better
now). Studio C has a mickey mouse floor designed by its former owner(used to be
a franchised Fred Astaires' studio), its floor has been there for more than 20
years now with a lot of heel catching dents between the incorporated
railroad-tie-like design devide the entire floor to many 10x10 ft squares and
with the actual wood floor in between.
Pergo costs only 1/3 of the real wood floor!!
Joseph Huesmann
> Pergo costs only 1/3 of the real wood floor!!
True, but if it ever needs to be resurfaced it can't be too many times
since the veneer of real wood on the surface is only 1/16" thick. For
example, if it gets really dented or scratched.
Mike Corbett
It's my understanding that Pergo features a photographic image of wood
but no actual wood. As such you don't "resurface" Pergo.
From the reports and experience I have, Pergo is a fine option. The
poster asked about "best". :-)
Mike Corbett - Carrollton, TX
If you can't enjoy yourself, enjoy somebody else. :-)
TANGO 2X2
>TANGO 2X2 tapped out on a keyboard:
>> Pergo costs only 1/3 of the real wood floor!!
>
>True, but if it ever needs to be resurfaced it can't be too many times
>since the veneer of real wood on the surface is only 1/16" thick. For
>example, if it gets really dented or scratched.
Hi Joseph,
The surface of Pergo flooring is finished in such a way it's very unlikely need
to be refinished. As far as dents and scratches go, the surface takes a lot of
pounding such as forcefully pound it with a hammer to produce a dent. I
remembered at one time HomeDepot had a high heel shoe on their Pergo floor
sample for all the people to pound on. However a friend of mine did
unfortunately drop a hammer on her Pergo floor while changing light bulb on top
of an A frame ladder, but with the Pergo patching paste, she patched it with no
problem at all. While I was installing the floor 5 years ago, the circular saw
had a tough time cutting though the floor pieces that I finally had to use my
zig saw with special cutting blade. That's how hard/strong the surface is.
In the mean time, in 5 years, the $10 per sq ft(plus installation fee)
DanceVision floor in that StudioA already have gaps as wide as 1/8-3/16. Though
they had patched their floor with some kind of patching compound, with the gap
running more than 10 feet long, the grey color compound on the light tan maple
floor just look terrible.
My floating Pergo floor is for me, my family, my students and my guests'
dancing pleasure in my 560 sq ft studio at home. I am not a Pergo salesman,
just a happy customer.
TANGO 2X2
>It's my understanding that Pergo features a photographic image of wood
>but no actual wood. As such you don't "resurface" Pergo.
True!
>From the reports and experience I have, Pergo is a fine option. The
>poster asked about "best". :-)
I had always believed that those Swedish dance floor that DanceVision carries
were the best. Now I have second thoughts.
My kitchen and dining area have 3/4 inch thick solid oak floor. But the surface
do get scratched/dented where the chairs were pulled around and they showed,
especially at one spot my wife dropped a large bucket now have a semi-circle
ring. Thus I don't know how well this type of solid oak floor would take the
punishment of dancing?
Compare to all flooring materials, so far, Pergo seems to be the best.:)
Pat
additive aluminum oxide. Since it's known to be hard on slipper and sock
wear I wouldn't think it would make a good dance floor. Pat
jim buchanan - Tucson
time for my $0.02.
I agree that hardwood floors were great in thier day, but they require
so much maintenance to keep them danceable, and then there is all
that messy rosin to put up with. I'm sure that "pergo" would also
require a lot of rosin to keep from slipping. This is why most good
dance studios and performing companies went to "Marley Flooring" years
ago. It requires very little maintenance (except the taping) just a
damp mop once in a while. I prefer that it be layed on a nice
resilient sub-floor. Some studios also have a seperate floor for the
"hoofers", usually made of a composit material so that your taps will
resound properly.
jim buchanan - Tucson
tang...@aol.com (TANGO 2X2) wrote in message news:<20021018115225...@mb-bg.aol.com>...
Mike Corbett
Tucson) wrote:
>I've been following this thread since it's beginning, and think it's
>time for my $0.02.
>
>I agree that hardwood floors were great in thier day, but they require
>so much maintenance to keep them danceable, and then there is all
>that messy rosin to put up with. I'm sure that "pergo" would also
>require a lot of rosin to keep from slipping. This is why most good
>dance studios and performing companies went to "Marley Flooring" years
>ago. It requires very little maintenance (except the taping) just a
>damp mop once in a while. I prefer that it be layed on a nice
>resilient sub-floor. Some studios also have a seperate floor for the
>"hoofers", usually made of a composit material so that your taps will
>resound properly.
>
>jim buchanan - Tucson
Marley flooring is fine for ballet but unless you have a death wish
for your knees, the lack of slippage is brutal for partner dancing.
My experience with Marley floors is somewhat limited but Tina, Kim and
others have extensive experience. Maybe we'll here from them. :-)
Chris Brown
Give me a break! Pergo sucks! It works for a while but is unable to
take the rigors of use. Mike is right that the "wood" of pergo is
actually underneath what you see and they use a photo process on a
thin plastic layer on top of a wood product substrate. If you drop
anything that penetrates this "layer" (very thin) your floor has a
damage problem. Ooops, time for replacement. By the way, a keen eye
will see the pattern repetition that comes from photoed wood grains.
To me it gives a definite phony look. Nature has flaws. Solid wood
is homogenious in it's depth it can take a large dent and still look
like wood, i.e. retain it's 'natural' beauty. Pergo's advantage is
that it is cheap. If your going to finish floors then it really
doesn't matter (like an earlier poster stated) the substrate material
as far as feel goes. I personally prefer unfinished maple feel
although I have polyurethane over maple at home, because the wood gets
dirty in traffic areas. There's a reason why American Portable dance
floors uses a Poly based finish, maintains beauty and is durable and
at the proper roughness is a fairly good floor feel wise.
My two bits.
Chris Brown
Camarillo, CA
John Beales
If by partner dancing you mean ballroom dancing, I haven't done much, but if
you're wearing the proper suede shoes is it really that slippery? I find swede
moves fairly well on marley.
John Beales
http://www.the-ballet.com
MORE about ballet
Mike Corbett
wrote:
I don't consider Marley TOO slippery. I mentioned the LACK of
slippage. I've seen dancers become accustomed to just about any
flooring or speed but Marley is significantly "slower" than the vast
majority of wood dance floors.
For those who haven't experienced Marley, I would express the
difference this way. On a speed scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the
fastest, a good Master Dance floor would be an 8, with standard
parquet rental floors ranging from 6 to 7. I would rate Marley at
about 4. Marley is, after all, a form of synthetic rubber.
Quandary
particularly interesting to me as we are planning to build a new ballroom at
our studio next summer. I have danced on almost every type of floor over
the last few years, both as a ballroom dancer and a ballroom dance
instructor.
Given the amount of time that a ballroom dance instructor spends on the
dance floor, I can tell you that nothing compares to dancing on a hardwood
floor, ideally eight-inch-wide planks (or larger) with a light - and I
repeat - light finish. I have danced on the above-mentioned floor at a
brand new studio with too much finish. I visited this studio every January
for three years for meetings and found that it was still slippery after the
third year.
My former studio had a floating parquet floor (on rubber slats), which was
wonderful until we had construction in the area and the sand worked itself
underneath the flooring. This caused a few of the little parquet pieces to
become raised, making it difficult, if not dangerous, to dance on that
floor. As many of you will agree, it is incredibly difficult to avoid
having street shoes on your dance floor, expecially if you run a studio
outside of your home.
As far as Pergo is concerned, I have some in my kitchen at home for easy
clean-up, but I can honestly say that I have never danced on it. Chris
Brown mentioned that Pergo flooring has too much of a "perfect" look and I
agree. It is great for small spaces (like my kitchen), but if you are going
for the "image" of ballroom dancing, Pergo flooring would not work.
We now operate a 7,200 square-foot facility that offers ballet, tap, jazz,
etc., mostly to children, and we are incorporating ballroom dancing into our
curriculum. So, we have Marley flooring for the ballet, composite flooring
for the tap, and a polyurethane tile flooring for the little kids (the
romper room). Since we do not have our ballroom built yet, we are dancing
ballroom on all three. There is too much friction on the Marley flooring.
In fact, I find it almost impossible to turn properly, especially when I hit
the tape... The polyurethane tile flooring is much like dancing on linoleum
(not bad, but it hurts the knees after a while). Oddly enough, the
composite flooring used for tap is the best in terms of the amount of
friction, but it looks horrible. If any of you have seen a well-used tap
floor before, you know that they are not pretty...
The bottom line: I would recommend a raised hardwood floor (planks, not
parquet) with very little finish.
Warm regards to you all,
Jeff
"jim buchanan - Tucson" <JAMES...@qWEST.NET> wrote in message
news:49ce3dcf.02102...@posting.google.com...
KT
I agree Chris
To me Pergo is ok just ok. It is durable in the short run but I am not
sure sure of it during the long run. In a my opinion it is a cheap
substitute for the real thing. A good Maple or Oak will hold up very
well under the traffic, wear and tear of regular dancing. If it is
seamless thats even better. I like wood with character and good
markings and a smooth Appalachin Hardwood gives that. While most
flooring salespeople consider it to be the best and most durable but
not the best to look at because it has markings due to its rainy
seasons during growth. Most of them would perfer a Upstate NY
Hardwood.
The wood should require proper maintenance but it shouldn't be
difficult just a cleaning.
Like I said a thick wood with wide planks laid corectly with no vapor
pockets will have very little slippage. If a hardwood floor seperated
an 1/8 inch it was not laid correctly on a good subsurface.
Plus lets face it wood looks nice. It doesn't look fake because it
isn't. :)
Kevin Twohig
Feel the beat, get up on your feet, you can't dance if you're on your
seat!!!
Warren J. Dew
hardwood floors require very limited maintenance - once a year refinishing,
plus dry mopping when they become too dirty, is sufficient.
Marley is essentially unusable for partner dances like ballroom - the
coefficient of friction is just too high. At MIT, the modern and hip hop
groups also seem to prefer the wood floors to the marley floor, though the wood
floor is also in a better room. As far as I know, MIT doesn't have a classical
ballet group.
Warren
----
I agree that hardwood floors were great in thier day, but they require
so much maintenance to keep them danceable, and then there is all
that messy rosin to put up with. I'm sure that "pergo" would also
require a lot of rosin to keep from slipping. This is why most good
dance studios and performing companies went to "Marley Flooring" years
ago. It requires very little maintenance (except the taping) just a
damp mop once in a while. I prefer that it be layed on a nice
resilient sub-floor. Some studios also have a seperate floor for the
"hoofers", usually made of a composit material so that your taps will
resound properly.
jim buchanan - Tucson
r...@nicholson.com
Bruce W.1 <b...@NOSPAMcorecomm.net> wrote:
>Of course it's wood, but what kind of wood? And what's the best finish,
>polyurethane seems like it might be too sticky.
As noted later in this thread, different dances require different types
of optimal flooring. Dances with include jumps and leaps may require a
higher coefficient-of-friction than ones where the dancers like to spin
and shuffle. I prefer a well sprung and slightly "fast" floor for
ballroom dancing. I'm quite happy with the sprung and pre-finished
maple Master Dance floor portable squares which I put in the den over
carpet (except that my den is much too small). The floor finish seems
to be a very thin and extremely well buffed synthetic coating.
The coating is what one actually dances on; the wood is for the looks
and the "spring". The buffing of the floor finish (and maybe some
micro-scratches and a little worked in dust?) seems to make the main
difference. All the bare wood dance floors which I've recently been on
were not kept clean enough to be anywhere near optimal, so I would not
recommend this course unless you're planning on spending lots of time
(and/or money) on cleaning and maintainance.
I would rate the "springing" of a dance floor as more important as the
finish. You can almost always refinish a floor without tearing it
out. One nearby dance studio put in a large, beautiful looking, well
finished and well maintained floor, but with almost no spring (one
rumor is that it's laid directly on concrete slab). And after much
less than an hour of dancing on this floor, my feet are dead. Good for
a 45 minute lesson, then it's time to go somewhere else to practice or
dance.
IMHO. YMMV.
--
Ron Nicholson r...@nicholson.com http://www.nicholson.com/rhn/
#include <canonical.disclaimer> // only my own opinions, etc.
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Is there someone who tried it in dance class?