Fabian Says Bye
FabNic
scheduled for issues #45 and #46?
Well, never mind...
I have resigned as writer of adjectiveless X-MEN. Issue #45, scheduled to
ship in August will be my last issue.
No grenades being lobbed, no screaming or kicking, but it's obvious to
most who know me and who have read my work on X-MEN that it simply just
wasn't working out.
The reasons, as they usually tend to be, are myriad.
It all came down to a personal decision. Was the money worth the lack of
creative satisfaction and perpetuation of mediocrity?
For too long I said yes and rationalized my frustrations away with silly,
ego-driven reasons like "well, eventually, I'll be able to pay for my
daughter's college education (and she's only one-year old...)"
Yesterday morning (Thursday), I woke up and said, "No, it's just not worth
it anymore."
I had to go into Marvel that day anyway, so I walked into Bob's office and
politely, calmly resigned. Sorry, no fights in the hallway (I'll save all
those for Melrose Place and Comics International).
I went out to lunch with Tom Breevoort, Bob Budiansky and Glenn Greenberg
to discuss the (tentatively titled) LAST SPIDER-MAN STORY Limited Series,
which I'm scheduled to write with Darick Robertson's art. We also
discussed my proposed DAILY BUGLE Limited Series. The lunch went very
well.
I talked to Marc McLaurin about the schedules on TWO GUN KID (seven years
in the making, and at the rate we're going...)
I told Mark Gruenwald I'd have the first plot for CAPTAIN MARVEL by the
end of the working day Friday.
I walked down to Bob's and told him he'd get more script on X#45 on Monday
and then I went home.
Is it a little scary to walk away for the #1 book in the industry and one
heckuva hefty monthly paycheck? Of course it is.
But I look at other people who have made similar choices and I realize I'm
in pretty good company.
And today, when I opened up my computer, I felt like a writer again for
the first time in quite a while.
(Of course, my baby hitting the keyboards while I tried to access AOL
threw that whole sunrise feeling out the window, but, well, you guys know
what I mean.)
Have a fun weekend. I know I will.
-- fabian
Mike 'Hrivy' Friedman
>And today, when I opened up my computer, I felt like a writer again for
>the first time in quite a while.
Good for you, Fabes.
Now, what are the chances of you rescuing the New Warriors?
--
Michael Friedman | "It's always funny until someone gets hurt
gtd...@prism.gatech.edu | and then it's just hilarious."
hri...@havoc.gtf.gatech.edu | -- Faith No More, "Ricochet"
Robert R. Ramirez
[Please pardon me for editing this a little for brevity, Fabe.]
> I have resigned as writer of adjectiveless X-MEN. Issue #45, scheduled to
> ship in August will be my last issue.
> No grenades being lobbed, no screaming or kicking, but it's obvious to
> most who know me and who have read my work on X-MEN that it simply just
> wasn't working out.
> ...
> It all came down to a personal decision. Was the money worth the lack of
> creative satisfaction and perpetuation of mediocrity?
> For too long I said yes and rationalized my frustrations away with silly,
> ego-driven reasons like "well, eventually, I'll be able to pay for my
> daughter's college education (and she's only one-year old...)"
> Yesterday morning (Thursday), I woke up and said, "No, it's just not worth
> it anymore."
> I had to go into Marvel that day anyway, so I walked into Bob's office and
> politely, calmly resigned. Sorry, no fights in the hallway (I'll save all
> those for Melrose Place and Comics International).
> ...
> Is it a little scary to walk away for the #1 book in the industry and one
> heckuva hefty monthly paycheck? Of course it is.
> But I look at other people who have made similar choices and I realize I'm
> in pretty good company.
>
> And today, when I opened up my computer, I felt like a writer again for
> the first time in quite a while.
Damn. I don't know if I can speak for all of us here on r.a.c.x., but I
know that at least a sizeable fraction of us will miss you on X-Men (we
already miss you on X-Force -- just when it was getting good, too, before
AoA). I respect your decision and commend you for your integrity once
again. I know it was your decision to leave X-Men, but I sincerely hope
that this newsgroup wasn't a factor. I know we can be a bit harsh at times.
Vaya con Dios, Fabe.
Sincerely,
=========================================================================
Robert Ramirez (a.k.a. MASTER BLASTER) CLUTCH CITY PART II!!!
rr69...@bcm.tmc.edu BELIEVE IT...AGAIN!!!
RR69...@aol.com TWO-STON!!!
HOUSTON ROCKETS -- 1994 (and soon to be 1995) World Champions!!!
Hakeem Olajuwon -- The One True M.V.P.!!!
=========================================================================
Benjamin C. Haber
I'm glad you realized that your work on X-Men was not the
greatest and took it upon yourself to leave instead of forcing out
crappy storylines that just weren't working. I only wish more people
in the industry would calm their egos down and do the same. I know
that as an actor and president of a theatre company at Northwestern,
I will not allow myself or others around me to do low quality work.
I wish Marvel as a corporation would take that same responsibility
upon themselves. More specifically, I wish Bob Harras would stop
focusing his attention towards the economic dynamics of comics and
concentrate more on good storytelling that X-Men was renowned for
prior to Claremont's and the Image guys departure (not meaning that
the Image guys were what made the X-Men so great but that the quality
of X-stories really reached an all-time low after their leaving).
I thought your best work was the first 25 issues of New Warriors
and then I felt you got carried away with storylines (in all of your
books) that were supposed to be great dramatic twists and
revelations about the characters, but completely failed. I don't
know if it had to do with your editors or what, but I hope you dropping
the X-Men will bring you back to your original way of weaving stories.
Actually, I would love to know behind-the-scenes info that caused
so many people to leave Marvel or be inhibited in their storytelling
process for large crossovers. That is, if you want to tell.
By the way, those seem like a lot of projects Marvel is
planning! How many do they have because the amount of comics they
are producing is having a really bad effect on the amount of money
in my wallet. Don't they realize people can't afford everything they
want from Marvel at the price Marvel is offering the merchandise at?
Benjamin C. Haber
Northwestern University, Evanston, IL. USA
bha...@merle.acns.nwu.edu
Nyx Nshade
scheduled for issues #45 and #46?
Well, never mind...>
Oh no! No no no! Sigh.
Sorry to see you go, Fabian. I've been rather loud about my dislike of
some things you've done, but overall I enjoyed your work much more than
anyone else who has worked on X-Men since Claremont's departure... and I
just was starting to *really* like it, too. Sigh.
Sigh. It's just such a shame. ;/
<I have resigned as writer of adjectiveless X-MEN. Issue #45, scheduled to
ship in August will be my last issue.>
<ouch>
Well.... I only hope you don't change your mind about throwing in that
Rogue/Gambit talk before you go... that would make the blow a little less
intense...
Damn. This is really horrible. :/
Surprises me how upset I am, consider how much complaining I've done. ;/
<Yesterday morning (Thursday), I woke up and said, "No, it's just not
worth it anymore.">
Understandable. Sigh. Still, it... well, sugit.
<Is it a little scary to walk away for the #1 book in the industry and one
heckuva hefty monthly paycheck? Of course it is. But I look at other
people who have made similar choices and I realize I'm
in pretty good company.>
I just want to say that, as sad as it is to see you go, I have to admire
you for walking away from ridiculous amounts of cash for the integrity of
your craft.
Nyx
Fan of everything Magnus, except his helmet, and especially his hair.
"Well, in case you failed to notice, in case you failed to see... this is
my heart bleeding... this is me down on my knees. These foolish games are
tearing me apart. Your thoughtless words are breaking my heart..." (Jewel
Kilcher)
Jerry B. Ray
>I have resigned as writer of adjectiveless X-MEN. Issue #45, scheduled to
>ship in August will be my last issue.
Aw, man, that sucks. I know I haven't been entirely glowing in my
reactions to your writing, but things _really_ seemed to be looking
up over the last 6-8 months. I was actually looking forward to your
stuff on X-Men like I did on New Warriors (say, any chance of you digging
that book out of the pits?). I, for one, am going to be sorry to see you
go. Not to mention the fact that your departure opens the way for
somebody _else_ to take over an X-book (NOT MACKIE!!!!).
JRjr
--
'Summer's going fast, nights growing colder
Children growing up, old friends growing older
The innocence slips away...'--Rush, Time Stand Still
##### vap...@prism.gatech.edu ######## Jerry B. Ray, Jr. ################
Vinny Valenti
Peronet Despeignes <desp...@scws31.harvard.edu> wrote:
>Benjamin C. Haber (bha...@merle.acns.nwu.edu) wrote:
>: In article <3qnntv$s...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, fab...@aol.com (FabNic) says:
>
>: I wish Marvel as a corporation would take that same responsibility
>: upon themselves. More specifically, I wish Bob Harras would stop
>: focusing his attention towards the economic dynamics of comics and
>: concentrate more on good storytelling that X-Men was renowned for
>
>away based on short-term considerations and ossified writing. I really have
>trouble
>understanding how destroying the things that made X-Men popular in the
>first place is supposed to be a commercially profitable endeavor. What
>world are these people living in?
>
> Perry D.
But, unfortunately, that plan is working. The X-books are still the
highest selling comics in the biz, and the AOA crossover kicked ass in
that respect. I'm not saying that I like it, but thats the reality that
we have to deal with. Maybe if sales went down due to bad storytelling,
things would change. But I kinda doubt that will ever happen.
Jerky!
Vinny Valenti
Eivind Gladheim \streng <eivi...@oslonett.no> wrote:
>
>Now, what's going to happen to Adjectivelss?
>A full-time ongoing X-title is available, and
>Howard Mackie is "waiting in the wings".....
>Help me, I'm scared.
>
Hopefully X-MEN will go to Lobdell, he's the natural choice. I never
liked the idea of 2 writers writing the same team anyway (no offense
Fabe, I just think that it leaves open the opportunity of
inconsistencies, which have happened in the past). But since he already
has Gen-X I fear it will not.
No doubt Fabe's being fired off of X-Force must've helped making this
decision. Best of luck to ya, Fabe.
Jerky!
P.S. I think its ironic that after all those 'Fabian sucks'-type messages
everyone is wishing him luck. Ah, well, thats just apples and oranges anyway.
ITOisDman1
was #58. I realy love Daricks work and always have. It is rare that i buy
a book because of the art, but i have actually bought many boxes of marvel
metal so i can get all the inserts with Daricks art on them.. thats just
my 2 cents n this whole thing anyway.
Katherine E. Martin
Geez, it's amazing how soon we go off topic.
[In case you're curious, whatever your name is, New Warrior discussion
goes in rec.arts.comics.marvel-universe. Doesn't it? [Not that I object to
the occasional discussion of them, mind you...]]
Mr. Nicieza, sorry to see you go. But I know the feeling of completely
hating what you're doing... Quite a nice feeling to stop hitting yourself
over the head every day, isn't it?
-kate, who's wondering who this Captain Marvel is.
Not that black Avenger?
Paul O'Brien
>I have resigned as writer of adjectiveless X-MEN. Issue #45, scheduled to
>ship in August will be my last issue.
>It all came down to a personal decision. Was the money worth the lack of
>creative satisfaction and perpetuation of mediocrity?
I can't say this comes as a total surprise, but still.
Two thoughts come to mind. Firstly, thanks for all the hard work
over the last four or so years. Much as the art irritates me and
the constant crossovers grate on my nerves, I did enjoy your run
on X-Men. Okay, there were a few stories I really hated, but on
the whole it holds up okay. And you managed to salvage that two-
Psylockes storyline, which I'd written off as being beyond rescue.
So thanks for putting in the effort and I hope you find your next
project more creatively satisfying.
Secondly, please tell me that Howard Mackie won't be your replacement.
(Not a joke.)
Paul O'Brien
pr...@festival.ed.ac.uk, elf...@srv0.law.ed.ac.uk
I can't believe we actually cheated in a pub quiz...
Timothy C Ellerbee
: I have resigned as writer of adjectiveless X-MEN. Issue #45, scheduled to
: ship in August will be my last issue.
: No grenades being lobbed, no screaming or kicking, but it's obvious to
: most who know me and who have read my work on X-MEN that it simply just
: wasn't working out.
I'm sorry to see you go. But the fact that you're willing to walk away
from a "secure" job because it violates your principles is truly
wonderful. Good luck, and best wishes, Fab.
--Genevieve
Adam Sonfield
: I told Mark Gruenwald I'd have the first plot for CAPTAIN MARVEL by the
: end of the working day Friday.
is that the Monica Rambeau Captain? it would be nice to actually be
reading some of your work again, Fabian (I haven't touched an X-comic in
two years now), and she was always one of my favorite characters...
Peronet Despeignes
Eivind Gladheim streng
> Remember that I posted in AOL about the three-dimensional villain
> scheduled for issues #45 and #46?
> Well, never mind...
>
> ship in August will be my last issue.
> No grenades being lobbed, no screaming or kicking, but it's obvious to
> most who know me and who have read my work on X-MEN that it simply just
> wasn't working out.
Now this was one piece of news that hit my computer like
a bombshell. This was unexpected, to say the least.
Speaking as one who enjoyed your work on X-Force and
latter X-Men (Revanche? Sorry, couldn't care less), as well
as the New Warriors and the Adventures of Captain America,
I wish you the very best for the future.
It takes courage to make those kinds of desitions (I know,
I've been there), but when all comes to all, it's your personal
satisfaction and happiness that's important. Congratulations
for making the right desition.
Don't really want to speculate on reasons behind this
move, but it seems to me that BOB (and I do mean BOB, not
Bob) claims another victim.
> I went out to lunch with Tom Breevoort, Bob Budiansky and Glenn Greenberg
> to discuss the (tentatively titled) LAST SPIDER-MAN STORY Limited Series,
> which I'm scheduled to write with Darick Robertson's art. We also
> discussed my proposed DAILY BUGLE Limited Series. The lunch went very
> well.
Last Spider-man Story? Sounds ominous. An Elseworlds...er..I mean
Alterniverse series?
> And today, when I opened up my computer, I felt like a writer again for
> the first time in quite a while.
>
> (Of course, my baby hitting the keyboards while I tried to access AOL
> threw that whole sunrise feeling out the window, but, well, you guys know
> what I mean.)
Do I see a competitor to tyg's niece here? :-)
> Have a fun weekend. I know I will.
>
> -- fabian
Now, what's going to happen to Adjectivelss?
A full-time ongoing X-title is available, and
Howard Mackie is "waiting in the wings".....
Help me, I'm scared.
--
- the WaRPed One, keeper of the Captain Ultra flame,
chief provoker of the ALFC.
"He can't stop us. We're on a mission from Glod."
- The Piano, Terry Pratchett's "Soul Music".
****************************************************************************
Eivind Gladheim Oestreng * eivi...@oslonett.no * provider of the lutefisk *
David Zeiger
: It all came down to a personal decision. Was the money worth the lack of
: creative satisfaction and perpetuation of mediocrity?
Wow. That takes a heck of a lot of guts. I'm sorry to see you go, but
I'd much rather see you working on stories you're happy with.
: I went out to lunch with Tom Breevoort, Bob Budiansky and Glenn Greenberg
: to discuss the (tentatively titled) LAST SPIDER-MAN STORY Limited Series,
: which I'm scheduled to write with Darick Robertson's art. We also
: discussed my proposed DAILY BUGLE Limited Series. The lunch went very
: well.
Hmmm, well, that makes it official, doesn't it? Everyone on the New
Warriors who left has ended up on Spider-Man (not counting Pace, who
only lasted a couple issues on NW anyway).
Hmmm, I don't suppose it'd be possible to go back to the original idea
for #51 and split the NW into 2 books? :-)
--
David Zeiger dze...@netcom.com
"5) $2.50 per issue? Do I get a blowjob with it? What's with the price?"
John William Mills (han...@wcm.umd.edu) on rec.arts.sf.starwars,
discussing why he is not buying the Dark Empire II comic series.
Jane Griffin
>scheduled for issues #45 and #46?
>Well, never mind...
Too bad, it sounded promising.
>
>It all came down to a personal decision. Was the money worth the lack of
>creative satisfaction and perpetuation of mediocrity?
> For too long I said yes and rationalized my frustrations away with silly,
>ego-driven reasons like "well, eventually, I'll be able to pay for my
>daughter's college education (and she's only one-year old...)"
>Yesterday morning (Thursday), I woke up and said, "No, it's just not worth
>it anymore."
>I had to go into Marvel that day anyway, so I walked into Bob's office and
>politely, calmly resigned. Sorry, no fights in the hallway (I'll save all
>those for Melrose Place and Comics International).
Too much life is spent on work to be unhappy with it. But couldn't you
make up some hysteria, if only to make us happy? :)
>
>Is it a little scary to walk away for the #1 book in the industry and one
>heckuva hefty monthly paycheck? Of course it is.
>But I look at other people who have made similar choices and I realize I'm
>in pretty good company.
Certainly are. :)
>
>And today, when I opened up my computer, I felt like a writer again for
>the first time in quite a while.
>
There is no feeling of euphoria in the world like quitting a job you
hate, is there?
>(Of course, my baby hitting the keyboards while I tried to access AOL
>threw that whole sunrise feeling out the window, but, well, you guys know
>what I mean.)
>
>Have a fun weekend. I know I will.
>
>-- fabian
>
I am sure you are. Good luck, and any guesses on who will replace you?
Just don't say Mackie or I will start to cry.
Jane Griffin
Peronet Despeignes
: In article <3qobf2$k...@decaxp.harvard.edu>,
: Peronet Despeignes <desp...@scws31.harvard.edu> wrote:
: But, unfortunately, that plan is working. The X-books are still the
: highest selling comics in the biz, and the AOA crossover kicked ass in
: that respect. I'm not saying that I like it, but thats the reality that
: we have to deal with. Maybe if sales went down due to bad storytelling,
: things would change. But I kinda doubt that will ever happen.
: Jerky!
I think what's happened is that the target group has shifted from
sophisticated and thoughtful readers to the least-common-denominator (tm)
marketing that
so many other organizations in the biz are involved in: Going after people
who see
comic books as nothing more than trading cards, collectors items and nice
posters. Really sad stuff that seems
to be happening to every extracurric I used to be into (hopefully not
Babylon5....yet).
Perry D.
Jordan Davis
<a good-bye speech that made much sense and moved me to post>
Well, the apparent oppresiveness of the editorial office in the
X-Universe wears down another writer.
I was saddened when I heard Claremont was leaving.
Glad again when I heard Byrne would be taking over.
Even sadder when after only a couple of months Byrne was out the
door.
Now, although I was one of Fabian's fans (yes I can admit it now) -
I loved early New Warriors, and really liked some of the X-Force
stories - especially those without Cable - I just shrug and figure
its par for the course. It's sad that I can't even be sad about
it.
What will definately make me sad is if Howard Mackie is asked to
take over. He's been doing an awful lot (pun intended) of X-related
stories lately, and you know he wants the job. Or maybe Tom DeFalco.
I hear they're letting him move on to ruin Spider-Man, why not X-Men.
Oh well, bye Fabe, sorry to see you go. Glad to see you got to leave
with integrity and dignity in tact.
JD
Paul O'Brien
>But, unfortunately, that plan is working. The X-books are still the
>highest selling comics in the biz, and the AOA crossover kicked ass in
>that respect. I'm not saying that I like it, but thats the reality that
>we have to deal with. Maybe if sales went down due to bad storytelling,
>things would change. But I kinda doubt that will ever happen.
It'll change in the end. The sad truth is that comics these days
are marketed plain and simple at morons. But even the most
brainless twelve-year-old boy is going to twig in the end. Things
are starting to reach breaking point. Is there anybody in the world
dim enough to take the adverts for Night Man vs Wolverine seriously?
("This shockingly violent comic" = "Are you dim? Buy this!")
Abhay Khosla
I don't buy anything X-men post-Claremont. After reading some friends
AOA, I don't read them either though their appeal was obvious and
powerful(though I found them repulsive because...well no Claremont...its
just me though...). I picked up a few of your issues before
those decision. Some of them didn't work. Some of them did very
nicely. I could see why people would keep reading even without Chris.
You had an impossible job- following a 17 year creator who pretty much
defined the vocabulary of modern superhero teams. You got people to stay
on the book, even come to like your work. So, in that way, I find it sad
that you couldn't do what you wanted because you
BTW, Adventures of Captain America was a really nice book...
-Abhay
akh...@umich.edu
Lisa P Greenfield
: : I told Mark Gruenwald I'd have the first plot for CAPTAIN MARVEL by the
God, I HATE this account! It took me a minute just to get my damn cursor
down here so I can type! Anyway, I think Fabe said it was a Capt. Marvel
from a recent Silver Surfer book. Didn't he say it was someone named
Legacy or something?
Jacob
jwmi...@student.umass.edu
Disclaimer: not my account, Don't email me here, please, sorry if the
post is messed up
Jynxie
I feel totally speechless. I suppose in twenty-twenty hindsight, I should
have seen it coming, but it's still something I didn't expect to read this
morning.
Good luck, Fabian. It's really nice to see a writer truly care about the
work he's producing instead of being consumed by the temptation of money.
I will miss your writing of the X-Men (I'm already missing it on the New
Warriors and X-Force.) I'm glad that you feel like your working on comics
that you enjoy. I've noticed that your stories are much better under those
circumstances. Thanks for the memories.
Cheri Hatanaka
Amol Keshav Malshe
Another writer bites the dust ..... courtesy of
Marvel .... or is it Bob ( Kind of fuzzy there )..... Best of luck
Fabian.
--
Amol Keshav Malshe
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt7081b
Internet: gt7...@prism.gatech.edu
adaml
> howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!
> newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
> From: fab...@aol.com (FabNic)
> Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.xbooks
> Subject: Fabian Says Bye
> Date: 2 Jun 1995 15:14:07 -0400
> Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
> Lines: 50
> Sender: ro...@newsbf02.news.aol.com
> Message-ID: <3qnntv$s...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
> Reply-To: fab...@aol.com (FabNic)
> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
In article <3qnntv$s...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> fab...@aol.com "FabNic" writes:
>
>
> I have resigned as writer of adjectiveless X-MEN. Issue #45, scheduled to
> ship in August will be my last issue.
>
> It all came down to a personal decision. Was the money worth the lack of
> creative satisfaction and perpetuation of mediocrity?
>
Well I'll be. This is a very sensible move for you, if, as you imply, your
reputation is being ruined in the highest profile comic around. I agree that
it wasn't working out and I think most people would accept that that probably
wasn't your fault.
But I'm now depressed. From what's been written, the message is clear.
Making the X-Men a load of rubbish is apparently the deliberate policy of Bob
Harras, and this is profitable, on the basis of lowest common denominator
economics. I'd previously assumed this was just a period of decline which
people at Marvel were trying to arrest. The shock to the system of coming out
of AoA, which was basically quite good, back to the same old crap, may be too
much for a lot of people. Was that what drove you over the edge?
--
adaml
Carlos A. Garza
O'Brien) wrote:
> wea...@interport.net (Vinny Valenti) writes:
>
> >But, unfortunately, that plan is working. The X-books are still the
> >highest selling comics in the biz, and the AOA crossover kicked ass in
> >that respect. [SNIP...]
>
> It'll change in the end. The sad truth is that comics these days
> are marketed plain and simple at morons. But even the most
> brainless twelve-year-old boy is going to twig in the end. Things
> are starting to reach breaking point. [SNIP...]
Oh, really??
And why is it that Image "comic books" are still selling 100,000s of
copies and the sluth-babes (Shi, etc.) are white-hot (just ask Wizard)??
Compared to that crap, the AOA X-Books are classic literature.
- Carlos
Eric G. Myers
>
>
> It'll change in the end. The sad truth is that comics these days
> are marketed plain and simple at morons. But even the most
> brainless twelve-year-old boy is going to twig in the end. Things
> are starting to reach breaking point. Is there anybody in the world
> dim enough to take the adverts for Night Man vs Wolverine seriously?
> ("This shockingly violent comic" = "Are you dim? Buy this!")
>
>
I'll second this notion. When I was in my "golden age" the comics
I read (including UXM) were intelligent and thoughtful for the most
part. I often tell my parents (who were tolerant enough to save my
old comics for years before I housed them) that comic books not only
helped me learn to read but also expanded my vocabulary. I used to
use the dictionary to look up the words I didn't know (funny how the
word "frag" was never in the dictionary). I'm sure I was the only
second grader in my school who called the teacher nefarious and
heinous (so, I mispronounced them...she got the point).
Today, the quality seems to be driven by "market forces." Pretty,
poseur art, big fights, simple plots (well, sometimes....other times
the plot gets so convoluted that you can't follow it due to the
danglers, retcons and generally poor editing).
If I were in charge, I'd but a writer in charge. Do away with the
editorial position altogether and let the "chief writer" assume the
responsibilities associated with the editorial role. Let that writer
orchestrate the whole mess....given some time to settle in, develop a
style, clear up plot points (IMPORTANT) and generally bring a common
feel to the x-reality.
Just, please God, don't let the next write be Mr. Mackie. I have
nothing against the man personally (though I'm sure others here do)
but his writing is the antithesis of what I'd like to see occur
(of course this is somewhat of an overstatement for example's sake
but not too much of one...Mr. Mackie has had his moments, its just
the bad outweighs the good).
Anyway, Good Bye Fabian. I've enjoyed your work. I respect your
integrity. I hope that you will continue to provide your perspective
on things.
EGM
Paul O'Brien
> And why is it that Image "comic books" are still selling 100,000s of
>copies and the sluth-babes (Shi, etc.) are white-hot (just ask Wizard)??
> Compared to that crap, the AOA X-Books are classic literature.
True. This is what I regard as "breaking point." The market has
now reached the point where even a six year old with a major
mental disability could understand how ridiculous it is. Implosion
is not far off. Believe it.
Paul O'Brien
pr...@festival.ed.ac.uk, elf...@srv0.law.ed.ac.uk
Private Lee Clegg. Guilty as sin.
>>>--Ricochet-->
>Remember that I posted in AOL about the three-dimensional villain
>scheduled for issues #45 and #46?
>Well, never mind...
Damn! Here we get promises of something good, and the man responsible goes
and quits. Ah well, I'm glad to see that since he wasn't happy with what he
was writing, that he had enough courage to up and leave instead of writing
about third-rate villains that he knew he would have to write.
>And today, when I opened up my computer, I felt like a writer again for
>the first time in quite a while.
Hopefully this is a good sign. I wish you luck in your other projects
Fabian. Hopefully we can see some first rate stuff that you are proud of.
You can bet for sure I'll pick them up to see how you are doing.
We'll miss ya.
>Have a fun weekend. I know I will.
That's good for you, but bad for us. I just had a thought. With you gone,
and The Mack waiting for a series...... NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
******************************************************************************
* Marc Iturriaga * C O *"HULK SMASH!" my green butt! *
* U of Waterloo * >>>--I-----C----T--> * I'm gonna kills somebody *
* Prez of GFC * R H E * *
******************************************************************************
Martin
writes:
>
> I feel totally speechless. I suppose in twenty-twenty hindsight, I should
> have seen it coming, but it's still something I didn't expect to read this
> morning.
I don't mean to speak ill of the departed (even though he's not dead :)) but,
yeah, I can see how he might look at his work on Astonishing X-Men and call
it "mediocre" at best. It's funny really, the X-Force issues were the best
part of the overly long, drawn out X-Cutioner's Song while the Uncanny X-Men
issues were some of the worst. I said at the time that much of it had to do
with Scott ending up having to set up plot threads that Fabian was able to
resolve, making him (and Peter David) look bad while Fabian shone. It was
as if Fabian was BOB's favourite and Scott was the lackey there to advance
the plot. By X-Men #30, this was still the case with Fabian getting the plum
job of writing the wedding of Scott Summers and Jean Grey but by Age of
Apocalypse, it was becoming that much clearer that Scott had become the better
writer, if only for the X-Men, so he got characters like Rogue, Sabretooth,
Sunfire and Blink while Fabian had to work with characters like Dazzler and
Exodus. This probably had a lot to do with things like Uncanny #203 and #207
and the issues leading up to and including Generation X: Scott was showing
genuine ability doing stories about people, something which we on racx had been
saying time and time again were more interesting than the standard action fare
that Fabian has talent for.
My thoughts? It's too bad Fabian is leaving X-Men because the fan boys out
there want action sequences... and action sequences are Scott's weakness.
By having two different writers, Marvel was able to please both sets of
X-Men fans... and hopefully they would continue to buy both books. ;)
If they made Scott take over X-Men then there'd be no need for two books
because they wouldn't be distinct: might as well have one bi-weekly X-Men
book! (The same arguement goes for the Spiderman books which all have
different writers.) If Mark Waid doesn't have time to do two X-books then
they might consider getting somebody who could do both books, seeing as how
they have to look for a new writer anyway. Say... how about Claremont? ;)
Of course, it occurs to me now that you might have seen this coming because
Fabian got canned from X-Force and might have been feeling a bit bitter.
(I take it he was canned because BOB didn't like his story ideas and wanted
something different.)
Martin
Jane Griffin
Paul O'Brien <pr...@festival.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
Petty details of actual post snipped
>
>Paul O'Brien
>pr...@festival.ed.ac.uk, elf...@srv0.law.ed.ac.uk
>
>Private Lee Clegg. Guilty as sin.
>
This I want to know about.
Oh, and I saw on CNN this morning Britain now has more rats than human
beings. For once in my life I am glad I don't live there...
Jane Griffin
Jane Griffin
Eric G. Myers <emy...@utmdacc.mda.uth.tmc.edu> wrote:
>pr...@festival.ed.ac.uk (Paul O'Brien) wrote:
>>
>
>If I were in charge, I'd but a writer in charge. Do away with the
>editorial position altogether and let the "chief writer" assume the
>responsibilities associated with the editorial role. Let that writer
>orchestrate the whole mess....given some time to settle in, develop a
>style, clear up plot points (IMPORTANT) and generally bring a common
>feel to the x-reality.
>
>
Actually, having an editor is a good thing; it keeps the writer's worst
excesses to a minimum. Also a different perspective is always a good
idea, for any writer.
Jane Griffin
Martin
> O'Brien) wrote:
> > It'll change in the end. The sad truth is that comics these days
> > are marketed plain and simple at morons. But even the most
> > brainless twelve-year-old boy is going to twig in the end. Things
>
> Oh, really??
> And why is it that Image "comic books" are still selling 100,000s of
> copies and the sluth-babes (Shi, etc.) are white-hot (just ask Wizard)??
Well, to be fair, Shi #1-4 weren't bad, if a bit violent. I didn't buy
#5 because it didn't appear to advance the plot, something which I expect
as a minimum when I buy a comic.
Of course, the fact that you put Image and the "sluth-babes" together makes
me suspect that you already know the answer to your question. :I
Martin
Jane Griffin
Martin <phi...@chopin.physics.mcgill.ca> wrote:
>In article <3qvk5a$h...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> tan...@cats.ucsc.edu (Jynxie)
>writes:
>>
>
>there want action sequences... and action sequences are Scott's weakness.
>By having two different writers, Marvel was able to please both sets of
>X-Men fans... and hopefully they would continue to buy both books. ;)
>If they made Scott take over X-Men then there'd be no need for two books
>because they wouldn't be distinct: might as well have one bi-weekly X-Men
>book! (The same arguement goes for the Spiderman books which all have
>different writers.) If Mark Waid doesn't have time to do two X-books then
>they might consider getting somebody who could do both books, seeing as how
>they have to look for a new writer anyway. Say... how about Claremont? ;)
>
I suspect it is best that there are two different writers. Biweekly is a
bit much for one writer to work with the same characters all the time.
Writers get burnt out on X-men enough as it is.
Also, since the two different books deal with different plots (more or
less) it isn't so bad there are two writers. My choice would be to
cancel Unadj, but that wouldn't happen.
My choice? Move Waid up to X-men, leave Loeb on X-Force. While the last
issue of X-Force wasn't brilliant, it wasn't awful either and beats the
possible alternative (Mackie on X-men).
Jane Griffin
Iain Brown
>
>True. This is what I regard as "breaking point." The market has
>now reached the point where even a six year old with a major
>mental disability could understand how ridiculous it is. Implosion
>is not far off. Believe it.
I really wish I could believe it, but I don't. It hasn't happened with
books, with tv or with films so why should it happen with comics?
>Paul O'Brien
>pr...@festival.ed.ac.uk, elf...@srv0.law.ed.ac.uk
>
>Private Lee Clegg. Guilty as sin.
From what I've heard it sounds as though he is guilty, but I would like
to know more about this forensic evidence which "proves" he couldn't have
done it.
--
Iain Brown
ma2...@bath.ac.uk
Vote no to racmx.
pm...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
>
> I suspect it is best that there are two different writers. Biweekly is a
> bit much for one writer to work with the same characters all the time.
> Writers get burnt out on X-men enough as it is.
> Also, since the two different books deal with different plots (more or
> less) it isn't so bad there are two writers. My choice would be to
> cancel Unadj, but that wouldn't happen.
>
I think there should only be one writer for both books. I don't see how
biweekly should be a problem for a writer, particularly since there are
currently about 10,000 x-men, x-women and hangers on (that must be a hell of a
big mansion!!!) This would actually give a writer a chance to finish something
before the next earth-shattering, Dodge Intrepid cross-over.
In my experience, both x-books are so closely intertwined that they may as well
be one bi-weekly book. It's impossible to just read one and have any clue about
what's going on (I tried for about a year and finally ended up subscribing to
Unadj).
Back to topic: I'm going to miss Fabian and I wish him well.
--Pat
Iain Brown
>In article <D9rC1...@festival.ed.ac.uk>,
>Paul O'Brien <pr...@festival.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
>>Private Lee Clegg. Guilty as sin.
>>
>This I want to know about.
OK basically it goes like this. Private Clegg was manning a checkpoint in
Ulster with some other soldiers. Car drives straight at them and straight
through the checkpoint. Clegg fires at the retreating car _after_ it has
passed the checkpoint.
Turns out the car was stolen and was being used for joyriding, a bullet
Clegg fired went through the back windscreen and hits and kills a teenage
girl.
Clegg (and some senior army officials) claim that he did what he should,
it's not unknown for terrorists to smash the back windscreen and fire at
soldiers so he was preventing this happening.
He was found guilty of murder and is now in jail. There has been a big
(and at times rascist) media campaign to get Clegg freed.
Yesterday his lawyers claimed to have forensic evidence that proved he
was innocent, apparently they reconstructed the scene.
Iain
Charlie Ball
It appears that the "forensic evidence" consists of the lawyers claiming
that one of the other passengers shot the girl. It makes perfect sense to
your average right-wing paranoid anti-"all the Irish are terrorists anyway"
tabloid newspaper editors. Of course you kill your friends to get some
squaddie into trouble. I do it all the time.
Charlie Ball : isn't British justice wonderful?
Lori L. Sandoval
>OK basically it goes like this. Private Clegg was manning a checkpoint
>in Ulster with some other soldiers. Car drives straight at them and
>straight through the checkpoint. Clegg fires at the retreating car
>_after_ it has passed the checkpoint. Turns out the car was stolen
>and was being used for joyriding, a bullet Clegg fired went through
>the back windscreen and hits and kills a teenage girl. Clegg (and
>some senior army officials) claim that he did what he should, it's
>not unknown for terrorists to smash the back windscreen and fire at
>soldiers so he was preventing this happening. He was found guilty
>of murder and is now in jail. There has been a big (and at times
>rascist) media campaign to get Clegg freed. Yesterday his lawyers
>claimed to have forensic evidence that proved he was innocent,
>apparently they reconstructed the scene.
>
>
>Iain
>
I read about this case a few months ago. It seemed to me that it
was just Clegg being punished (or scapegoated) for the system that
perpetuates violence in North Ireland. I have, pretty much, no
doubt that he did fire, but I also have no doubt that that was what
he was always told to do. Whether it was justified, self-defense
is still unclear to me. I can see both sides, one, he did fire
on a car that had passed him, but two, I can't imagine what kind
of stress it is being stationed there. Or, three, I'm just an
ignorant American who shouldn't even be voicing her opinion on
British/Irish politics.
Just my $.02. No offense intended, no hate mail required. Unless
a discussion of British politics will finally put an end to the
"XTAS: Whoa was I Shocked" religion thread.
Lori
Charlie Ball
No worries - you're absolutely right, Private Clegg is being partially
scapegoated for the culture of violence that led to the shooting. But
the army are not exactly told to kill teenage joyriders - he went in off
the deep end - and this is the crux - expecting to get away with it.
And he might yet.
So, addressing your points.
1. Yep, he did
2. It's a damn sight more stress than I ever want to cope with.
3. You seem pretty well informed to me, so anyone who hassles you about
having an opinion is *wrong*. Thanks for expressing it.
I find it fascinating to find out what the US folks think/know about what
goes on here, to be honest.
>Just my $.02. No offense intended, no hate mail required. Unless
>a discussion of British politics will finally put an end to the
>"XTAS: Whoa was I Shocked" religion thread.
I thought of it, believe me. Then I kill-filed the entire topic.
>Lori
Charlie
Lori L. Sandoval
>No worries - you're absolutely right, Private Clegg is being partially
>scapegoated for the culture of violence that led to the shooting. But
>the army are not exactly told to kill teenage joyriders - he went in >off the deep end - and this is the crux - expecting to get away with
>it.
>
>And he might yet.
>
>So, addressing your points.
>
>1. Yep, he did
>2. It's a damn sight more stress than I ever want to cope with.
>3. You seem pretty well informed to me, so anyone who hassles you about
>having an opinion is *wrong*. Thanks for expressing it.
Thank you and your welcome. Is Clegg the only one being charged or
are charges being brought up against his superiors? Is there a law-
suit pending against the British government by the family of the
slain girl? That's what happens here. Actually, that is what happens
even if the person who was killed was killed while committing the
crime (when guilt has been established; not that I condone just
hauling off and killing every suspect without a trial).
>
>I find it fascinating to find out what the US folks think/know about >what goes on here, to be honest.
I also enjoy learning what everyone outside of the United States
thinks of what goes on here. It's just our dumb luck that you seem
to hear immediately about the really stupid stuff. Like, you know,
plumbers breaking into a National Guard armoury and taking a tank
out on a joy ride. It's even more embarrasing when it makes it into
Paul's .sig file within 24 hours.
>
>>Just my $.02. No offense intended, no hate mail required. Unless
>>a discussion of British politics will finally put an end to the
>>"XTAS: Whoa was I Shocked" religion thread.
>
>I thought of it, believe me. Then I kill-filed the entire topic.
Oh, I pop in every once in awhile to see if the thread has evolved
to a different topic. And when it seems it hasn't I just mark the
whole thing read and reload.
>
>Charlie
Lori
James S Galinski
Carlos A. Garza <cag...@aludra.usc.edu> wrote:
>In article <D9nJM...@festival.ed.ac.uk>, pr...@festival.ed.ac.uk (Paul
>O'Brien) wrote:
>
>>
>> >But, unfortunately, that plan is working. The X-books are still the
>> >highest selling comics in the biz, and the AOA crossover kicked ass in
>> >that respect. [SNIP...]
>>
>> are marketed plain and simple at morons. But even the most
>> brainless twelve-year-old boy is going to twig in the end. Things
>> are starting to reach breaking point. [SNIP...]
>
>Oh, really??
>
> And why is it that Image "comic books" are still selling 100,000s of
>copies and the sluth-babes (Shi, etc.) are white-hot (just ask Wizard)??
>
Well, when I went home for the weekend, I visited the comic store where I will
work this summer, and checked out a copy of Advance Comics. Have you seen how
many Image titles are coming out in August (in theory - it is Image, after
all)? There's like a hundred titles out there. Marvel is getting
out-Marveled! How can the X-books lose? There's only ten of 'em.
-Grandpa Nate
Working on a Mac at the moment, and not at all pleased about it!
David R. Henry
>If I were in charge, I'd but a writer in charge. Do away with the
>editorial position altogether and let the "chief writer" assume the
>responsibilities associated with the editorial role. Let that writer
>orchestrate the whole mess....given some time to settle in, develop a
>style, clear up plot points (IMPORTANT) and generally bring a common
>feel to the x-reality.
Marvel did that back in the 70s. The editors of the comics were also
the writers. The results? By and large, a lot of self-congratulatory,
overwritten messy comics. Editors, as evil and vile as they are,
do serve a purpose -- they give a second opinion on a storyline. The
trouble isn't editors, the trouble is good editors -- or, to be more
specific, good editors who are allowed to do something.
--
David R. Henry-Rogue Fan Club / Ball! Food. Ball! Food. Ball! Food. Uhh...
"All you of Earth are IDIOTS!"-P9fOS / What was the question? -- Kate Bush
dhe...@plains.nodak.edu * Evolution: Give it some time, it'll grow on ya.
Charlie Ball
puch...@haven.ios.com (Joanne Puchalik) writes:
>Charlie writes:
>
>: No worries - you're absolutely right, Private Clegg is being partially
>: scapegoated for the culture of violence that led to the shooting. But
>: the army are not exactly told to kill teenage joyriders - he went in off
>: the deep end - and this is the crux - expecting to get away with it.
>
>car, or did he honestly have no idea. If he had no idea, then he's
>perfectly justified in thinking they were terrorists. IMHO, the teenagers
>were pretty damn stupid for crashing a checkpoint in Northern Ireland.
Yes, he was perfectly aware that *the likelihood was* that they were joyriders.
That is, in fact, the basis of his defence - ie that he wasn't.
This is hampered, unfortunately, by the fact that one of the senior officers,
on the stand, said the place was "like Brands Hatch on a Friday night".
It's a notorious joyriding area, in other words.
Still - you thinking of becoming a lawyer, Joanne?
>Joanne
Charlie
Joanne Puchalik
: Yes, he was perfectly aware that *the likelihood was* that they were
: joyriders.
: That is, in fact, the basis of his defence - ie that he wasn't.
: This is hampered, unfortunately, by the fact that one of the senior
: officers,
: on the stand, said the place was "like Brands Hatch on a Friday night".
: It's a notorious joyriding area, in other words.
Hrmm. Still, seems pretty stupid to me. But then, I don't exactly walk on
the wild side.
: Still - you thinking of becoming a lawyer, Joanne?
Hee hee, no. God save me from that horrid fate. I was a political science
major in college, but I never once considered law school.
: Charlie
Joanne
Joanne Puchalik
: No worries - you're absolutely right, Private Clegg is being partially
: scapegoated for the culture of violence that led to the shooting. But
: the army are not exactly told to kill teenage joyriders - he went in off
: the deep end - and this is the crux - expecting to get away with it.
But my question is, did he know there were only teenage joyriders in the
car, or did he honestly have no idea. If he had no idea, then he's
perfectly justified in thinking they were terrorists. IMHO, the teenagers
were pretty damn stupid for crashing a checkpoint in Northern Ireland.
Joanne
David R. Henry
>I find it fascinating to find out what the US folks think/know about what
>goes on here, to be honest.
The incident of Private Clegg would, sadly, not be noticed in the US
due to the sounds of many thousands of other gun murders every year.
I'm with you, Charlie -- he was overindoctrinated and responded without
thinking. On the other hand, driving through an armed checkpoint without
stopping is hardly a brilliant move on the other party's part. Sounds
like everyone just made the wrong decisions, which is a sadly common
state of affairs on this planet.
Eivind Gladheim streng
> In the referenced article, pr...@festival.ed.ac.uk (Paul O'Brien) writes:
> >
> >True. This is what I regard as "breaking point." The market has
> >now reached the point where even a six year old with a major
> >mental disability could understand how ridiculous it is. Implosion
> >is not far off. Believe it.
>
> I really wish I could believe it, but I don't. It hasn't happened with
> books, with tv or with films so why should it happen with comics?
Comics implosions seems to happen every now and then at
irregular intervals.
--
- the WaRPed One, keeper of the Captain Ultra flame,
chief provoker of the ALFC.
And now, LIVE from the flood: the weather!
****************************************************************************
Eivind Gladheim Oestreng * eivi...@oslonett.no * provider of the lutefisk *
adaml
speed. The very first time a big IRA bomb went off on the British mainland,
everyone went bananas (it was in a pub in Guildford, 1974, and killed a load
of people, including lots of soldiers). Hysterical demands for the capture of
the guilty parties followed, and the police 'caught' the Guildford Four.
Much relief and calls for the death penalty all round.
Now, twenty years later, the Guildford Four were released. Turns out the
police had just framed the first convenient Irishmen they could lay their
on, just to stem the tide of hysteria from the media and politicians. They
beat confessions out of them at gunpoint. Many of you know about this.
So, hands up who's still positive that Tim McVeigh is the Oklahoma bomber?
--
adaml
"it's attitudes like that that help us to make this as fun and exciting for
you guys as it is for us"
BOB
David Zeiger
[snipped explination of UK police using scapegoats in 1974]
: So, hands up who's still positive that Tim McVeigh is the Oklahoma bomber?
Well, if the only evidence against was the "grab the first person
available" theory, then I'd be sure. There were quite a number of
Arab-Americans who were given the 3rd degree before they got McVeigh.
Had the US government just been looking for a scapegoat, a Moslem would
have made a much better target.
--
David Zeiger dze...@netcom.com
"5) $2.50 per issue? Do I get a blowjob with it? What's with the price?"
John William Mills (han...@wcm.umd.edu) on rec.arts.sf.starwars,
discussing why he is not buying the Dark Empire II comic series.
Charlie Ball
Maria Szabo
dze...@netcom.com (David Zeiger) writes:
>adaml (dh...@city.ac.uk) wrote:
>[snipped explination of UK police using scapegoats in 1974]
>: So, hands up who's still positive that Tim McVeigh is the Oklahoma bomber?
>
>Well, if the only evidence against was the "grab the first person
>available" theory, then I'd be sure. There were quite a number of
>Arab-Americans who were given the 3rd degree before they got McVeigh.
>
>Had the US government just been looking for a scapegoat, a Moslem would
>have made a much better target.
>--
> David Zeiger dze...@netcom.com
occurance happens in the US, suspicion immediately falls on the Moslems.
McVeigh is probably guilty, but of course he must be considered innocent until
proven so. Although I firmly believe in an American's constitutional right to
bear arms, those militias scare me. (Not as much as an Uzi-toting drug dealer
however. Those are a hell of a lot more common.) Private Clegg's dilemma
seems kinda strange. Here, he might have gotten sanctioned, but no way would
he have been tried for murder and sent to jail.
Just my $.02 worth.
--Maria Szabo
Charlie Ball
>: >major in college, but I never once considered law school.
>
>: Not that good at lying, eh?
>
>
>: Charlie (has dated lawyers)
>
>Sorry to hear that.
The secret is to avoid arguing. It drives them mad, see.
>Joanne
Charlie
Joanne Puchalik
: >
: >Hee hee, no. God save me from that horrid fate. I was a political science
: >major in college, but I never once considered law school.
: Not that good at lying, eh?
Not in the slightest, no.
: Charlie (has dated lawyers)
Sorry to hear that.
Joanne
Alasdair Watson
rather specific something.) I've been sitting here for the past two or
three days, with all of Charlie and Joanne's lawyer comments marked to
reply to. And I can't think of a single witty comeback to any of them.
It's driving me bananas! They're sitting there, making all these smart
remarks about lawyers, and I can't think of anything to say to defend the
profession I wish to enter. The best I can come up with is :
"Well, lawyers tend to make pots of cash later in life, so nyah!"
And as witty comebacks go, that lacks a certain something. Anyone got any
better ideas? Or is the career of lawyer truly an indefensible choice?
--
Alasdair Watson - 25:22. Tough luck ref!
Jane Griffin
Lawyers aren't entirely evil; not all accused are guilty. Lawyers do
useful things like resolve disputes before the parties kill each other,
ditto for divorce cases, etc. Without lawyers, cases would hinge on
popularity and power instead of structured rules. Much as litigation has
gone overboard in the US, it does have its place. How much luck would a
private individual have against a multinational corporation without one?
Hope that helps, Alistaire. :)
Jane Griffin
Charlie Ball
Private Clegg's dilemma stems from the Uk public's utter abhorrence of guns,
and the fact that even the army can't get away with shooting unarmed 18 year
olds. Actually, much of the reason why he was given such a stiff sentence
was due to the fact that the army tried so obviously to cover the whole thing
up.
Charlie
Maria Szabo
Alasdair Watson <alas...@belmonte.demon.co.uk> writes:
>Y'know something? (I'll assume everyone knows something, but this is a
>rather specific something.) I've been sitting here for the past two or
>three days, with all of Charlie and Joanne's lawyer comments marked to
>reply to. And I can't think of a single witty comeback to any of them.
>
>It's driving me bananas! They're sitting there, making all these smart
>remarks about lawyers, and I can't think of anything to say to defend the
>profession I wish to enter. The best I can come up with is :
>
>"Well, lawyers tend to make pots of cash later in life, so nyah!"
>
>And as witty comebacks go, that lacks a certain something. Anyone got any
>better ideas? Or is the career of lawyer truly an indefensible choice?
>--
>Alasdair Watson - 25:22. Tough luck ref!
intellectual superiority needed for the legal professsion. ;-)
--Maria Szabo
Studying frantically for her LSAT
Alasdair Watson
> Lawyers aren't entirely evil; not all accused are guilty. Lawyers do
> useful things like resolve disputes before the parties kill each other,
> ditto for divorce cases, etc. Without lawyers, cases would hinge on
> popularity and power instead of structured rules. Much as litigation has
> gone overboard in the US, it does have its place. How much luck would a
> private individual have against a multinational corporation without one?
Well, I know all that, but how does one go about distilling it into a snappy
comeback? It a lovely thought that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside,
but when one is searching for a witty riposte, a paragraph of prosaic text
doesn't quite cut it. Thanks anyway.
> Hope that helps, Alistaire. :)
^^^^^^^^^
Nope, seen that spelling before. Better luck next time!
Joanne Puchalik
: Y'know something? (I'll assume everyone knows something, but this is a
: rather specific something.) I've been sitting here for the past two or
: three days, with all of Charlie and Joanne's lawyer comments marked to
: reply to. And I can't think of a single witty comeback to any of them.
Oh my, Charlie. We've stumped Alasdair. Do we win a prize, or something?
Joanne
Joanne Puchalik
: Lawyers aren't entirely evil; not all accused are guilty. Lawyers do
: useful things like resolve disputes before the parties kill each other,
: ditto for divorce cases, etc. Without lawyers, cases would hinge on
: popularity and power instead of structured rules. Much as litigation has
: gone overboard in the US, it does have its place. How much luck would a
: private individual have against a multinational corporation without one?
Well, my current opinion of lawyers is reinforced by the fact that my
father comes home every day and subjects the entire family to the OJ
trial, by watching Court TV until we beat him into turning over the
remote. This is a exceedingly ugly. Should you see signs of this
addiction in one of your family members, get help, quickly.
This is, of course, not to say that the OJ trial is indicative of the US
jurisprudence system at large, or that all lawyers are Robert Shapiro.
Indeed, not at all. I'm just fed up, that's all.
: Jane Griffin
Joanne
Charlie Ball
Having him publically admit that we are better than him is prize enough in
itself. But yes, by the Xbooks Constitution, to be found at ms...@lily.csv.
warwick.ac.uk (not a public access site, by the way), we are to be bought
any or all alcoholic refreshments we desire between the dates of er.....
hang on........Jan 18 1887 and November 4th 2346 by....er, let's look this
up...yes, that's it......"anyone who's ever posted on racx or it's equivalent..
...especially Alasdair."
So basically, everyone owes us a pint. Official.
>Joanne
Charlie
Alasdair Watson
> So basically, everyone owes us a pint. Official.
Yes, alright Charlie, I'll buy you a pint later. However I would like to
take this opportunity to point out that you still owe me a fiver from quite
some time back. Count yourself lucky I don't add interest!
--
Alasdair Watson - "B and B is better, The revolution's here!"
adaml
ms...@csv.warwick.ac.uk "Charlie Ball" writes:
>
> Private Clegg's dilemma stems from the Uk public's utter abhorrence of guns,
> and the fact that even the army can't get away with shooting unarmed 18 year
> olds. Actually, much of the reason why he was given such a stiff sentence
> was due to the fact that the army tried so obviously to cover the whole thing
> up.
>
> Charlie
I'm not sure that you aren't overstating it a bit there. He was found
guilty of murder, so there is only one sentance he could receive under
British Law. The thing that has a lot of people annoyed was that the
Guildford Four had to wait twenty years for what he's getting within six
months ie a review of the evidence.
Katherine E. Martin
>>If I were in charge, I'd but a writer in charge. Do away with the
>>editorial position altogether and let the "chief writer" assume the
>>responsibilities associated with the editorial role. Let that writer
>>orchestrate the whole mess....given some time to settle in, develop a
>>style, clear up plot points (IMPORTANT) and generally bring a common
>>feel to the x-reality.
>Marvel did that back in the 70s. The editors of the comics were also
>the writers. The results? By and large, a lot of self-congratulatory,
>overwritten messy comics.
As a non-comics example, see what happens to Piers Anthony when he's
not edited. *shudder*
>Editors, as evil and vile as they are,
>do serve a purpose -- they give a second opinion on a storyline. The
>trouble isn't editors, the trouble is good editors -- or, to be more
>specific, good editors who are allowed to do something.
Er, I would assume this means that they're rarely allowed to do anything?
-kate, confused.
Joanne Puchalik
: Having him publically admit that we are better than him is prize enough in
: itself. But yes, by the Xbooks Constitution, to be found at ms...@lily.csv.
: warwick.ac.uk (not a public access site, by the way), we are to be bought
: any or all alcoholic refreshments we desire between the dates of er.....
: hang on........Jan 18 1887 and November 4th 2346 by....er, let's look this
: up...yes, that's it......"anyone who's ever posted on racx or it's
: equivalent...especially Alasdair."
: So basically, everyone owes us a pint. Official.
ALRIGHT! Wow, we'll have to stump Alasdair more often. So, when does
everybody start paying up? :-)
Joanne
Charlie Ball
dh...@city.ac.uk writes:
>In article <3rmeft$m...@holly.csv.warwick.ac.uk>
> ms...@csv.warwick.ac.uk "Charlie Ball" writes:
>
>>
>> Private Clegg's dilemma stems from the Uk public's utter abhorrence of guns,
>> and the fact that even the army can't get away with shooting unarmed 18 year
>> olds. Actually, much of the reason why he was given such a stiff sentence
>> was due to the fact that the army tried so obviously to cover the whole thing
>> up.
>>
>> Charlie
>
> I'm not sure that you aren't overstating it a bit there. He was found
> guilty of murder, so there is only one sentance he could receive under
> British Law. The thing that has a lot of people annoyed was that the
> Guildford Four had to wait twenty years for what he's getting within six
> months ie a review of the evidence.
You're probably correct, but I think that if he'd stood up and said.....er
it was a total accident and I panicked etc etc (ie the facts of the case),
he'd have got manslaughter and everyone would have forgotten about it.
Unpleasant but true. Instead we had a frankly pathetic attempt to first
pretend "girl? what dead girl?" and then to blame everyone and everything
else, until it became plain that there Was Something Fishy Going On.
>adaml
>
>"it's attitudes like that that help us to make this as fun and exciting for
>you guys as it is for us"
>BOB
Charlie
Charlie Ball
alas...@belmonte.demon.co.uk writes:
>Charlie Ball writes:
>
>> So basically, everyone owes us a pint. Official.
>
>take this opportunity to point out that you still owe me a fiver from quite
>some time back. Count yourself lucky I don't add interest!
>
>--
>Alasdair Watson - "B and B is better, The revolution's here!"
Oh yes, so I do. Bollocks.
Incidentally, I am now going to take this thread.......
ON TOPIC FOR XBOOKS!!!!!!!
(crowds cheer, multitudes rise, the sun is momentarily blocked out by
hats being tossed into the air.)
Having researched thoroughly, I have come to the conclusion that Fatale
from this month's X-Factor is not Silhouette at all, just someone who looks
like her.
I may actually bother posting some reviews, but I have to go to Nottingham
for several days and drink heavily, so it won't be just yet.
Wasn't X-Force rather odd? It just has this really strange feel about it.
I quite like the art though - it actually makes everyone look different
and recognisable. This is a Good Thing, in my opinion. I still hate Domino,
though. And Shatterstar. And Cable. And Boomer. In fact, nearly the
entire cast.
X-Factor wasn't bad, though. I suspect Moore of building interesting
plot-lines, although every time I see Random, I do break out in sweats. God,
I hate that character! Where's Jamie when you need him? Kyle looks quite
interesting, although Moore's jokes are unnaturally bad.
More detailed analysis later. Possibly.
Charlie
David R. Henry
>Although I firmly believe in an American's constitutional right to
>bear arms, those militias scare me. (Not as much as an Uzi-toting drug dealer
>however. Those are a hell of a lot more common.)
Depends where you live. :-)
"Take off, hosehead."
Maria Szabo
>>[snipped too much, was referring to ratio of militiamen vs Uzi-toting
drug dealers.]
>Depends where you live. :-)
>
one of the aforementioned Uzi-toting drug dealers had a shoot-out outside
my window during the wee hours of the morning. Suppose with all the wide-
open spaces in North Dakota-land there's not much call for Uzi-toting drug
dealers. I stand corrected. :-)
>"Take off, hosehead."
>
Huh? What? Sorry, the term is lost in translation. Please hang up
the phone and try again. BTW, what was the thing about the Rialto about?
(from another post from another person). I'm SCAdian--just curious.
--Maria Szabo
Squire errant, have sword, will travel
Eivind Gladheim streng
> In article <803056...@belmonte.demon.co.uk>
> Alasdair Watson <alas...@belmonte.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
> >rather specific something.) I've been sitting here for the past two or
> >three days, with all of Charlie and Joanne's lawyer comments marked to
> >reply to. And I can't think of a single witty comeback to any of them.
> >
> >remarks about lawyers, and I can't think of anything to say to defend the
> >profession I wish to enter. The best I can come up with is :
> >
> >"Well, lawyers tend to make pots of cash later in life, so nyah!"
> >
> >And as witty comebacks go, that lacks a certain something. Anyone got any
> >better ideas? Or is the career of lawyer truly an indefensible choice?
> >Alasdair Watson - 25:22. Tough luck ref!
>
> intellectual superiority needed for the legal professsion. ;-)
Well in the immortal word of Weird Al Yankovic:
"A huge tyronnosaurus ate our lawyer
Well I suppose that proves they're really not all bad"
Wether this last refers to the dino or the lawyers,
is something Xbooks resident T-Rex and lawyers/lawyers-wanna-bes
have to settle over lunch. <g>
David R. Henry
>>"Take off, hosehead."
>Huh? What? Sorry, the term is lost in translation.
Hosehead is a bit of pure Canadianese. Ask Kay for a translation, but
be warned -- it's pretty gosh darn vile.
>BTW, what was the thing about the Rialto about?
Oh, it was a tawdry affair. We found the minister drunk in the punchbowl.
Shameful.
Timothy C Ellerbee
: In article <DAAAv...@ns1.nodak.edu>:
: Huh? What? Sorry, the term is lost in translation. Please hang up
: the phone and try again. BTW, what was the thing about the Rialto about?
: (from another post from another person). I'm SCAdian--just curious.
:
: --Maria Szabo
: Squire errant, have sword, will travel
Ooh! That's three *count 'em, three!* known SCA-persons on here...and I
was wondering the same thing, dhr :)
--Genevieve du Renard
Herald of the College of St. Stephen
Heavy weapons fighter soon-to-be-authorized (Hey, wanna see my bruise?)
Maria Szabo
>
with. Honest to God.
>>>"Take off, hosehead."
>
>>Huh? What? Sorry, the term is lost in translation.
>
>be warned -- it's pretty gosh darn vile.
>
Is drh being vile towards a well-mannered Kentucky girl? Must I start
being excessively polite?
>>BTW, what was the thing about the Rialto about?
>
>Shameful.
>
>--
--Maria Szabo
Who wants to be JUST LIKE drh when she grows up.
Clara K. Showalter
MLSZ...@ulkyvm.louisville.edu (Maria Szabo) writes:
>
>In article <DAC6x...@ns1.nodak.edu>
>dhe...@plains.NoDak.edu (David R. Henry) writes:
>
>>Maria Szabo (I love what you've done to your last name, btw!) writes:
>>
>Weeelll, I didn't DO anything to my last name. That's the name I was born
>with. Honest to God.
>
>>>>"Take off, hosehead."
>>
>>>Huh? What? Sorry, the term is lost in translation.
>>
>>Hosehead is a bit of pure Canadianese. Ask Kay for a translation, but
>>be warned -- it's pretty gosh darn vile.
>>
>How Niiiice. Oh, Kay--what does "hosehead" mean? Should I be offended?
>Is drh being vile towards a well-mannered Kentucky girl? Must I start
>being excessively polite?
I think somewhere in the Nodak state constitution there is a
"harras Canadians clause".
>>>BTW, what was the thing about the Rialto about?
>>
>>Oh, it was a tawdry affair. We found the minister drunk in the punchbowl.
>>Shameful.
>>
>>--
>And I MISSED it? Curse the luck.
>
>
>
>--Maria Szabo
>Who wants to be JUST LIKE drh when she grows up.
Clara K. Showalter- more than one drh? Hmmm.
____________________________________________________________________
First Day of EMT Class
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Sgt.Richards: okay I want everybody to count off by twos
Class: One, two, three, four, five...ummm guys? When were we supposed
to stop again?
Maria Szabo
CS1...@american.edu (Clara K. Showalter) writes:
>In article <173C1B964S...@ulkyvm.louisville.edu>
>MLSZ...@ulkyvm.louisville.edu (Maria Szabo) writes:
>>Who wants to be JUST LIKE drh when she grows up.
>
>On no! drh clones!! The world will never be the same...
>
Charlie" clone, but there was a problem with customs and tariffs....
--Maria Szabo
Who wouldn't mind being like Clara if it meant she could be called Smithers
and ride around in nifty ambulances. Have a great vacation, Clara!
Alasdair Watson
> >--Maria Szabo
> >Who wants to be JUST LIKE drh when she grows up.
>
> On no! drh clones!! The world will never be the same...
Well, I know they say the people resemble their pets, but this is ridiculous.
Just because we all read X-books, doesn't mean we have to start acting like
the damn books.
I mean what's been happening round here recently, apart from "Who is the
weirdo from NoDak?" posts? St. Kate has come back from the dead. Clones
are abounding (and adrinking). People have been angsting about things in
this group running as they should.
I'm starting to get worried.
Alasdair Watson
writes:
> Gosh. I put in an application to be an Alasdair clone or a "dark
> Charlie" clone, but there was a problem with customs and tariffs....
We at the Clones Institute of Great Britain wish to apologise to all those
who have applied to become clones of either of the two British RACXers who
are currently available for cloning. Sadly such a thing is not possible,
as attempting to combine the essential Britishness of these two beings
with the rest of the world would result in a creature who would tear itself
apart, as one half of it would crave alcohol of a fundamentaly British
(or Irish) variety, while the other would wish to drink crappy foreign
drinks.
Once again we do apologise for this problem and will provide all those
disappointed applicants with their own "Dark Charlie" Beer mug, and
a referal to our sister organisation the Clones Institute of North Dakota.
Maria Szabo
Alasdair Watson <alas...@belmonte.demon.co.uk> writes:
>Maria Szabo (What have you done to your last name? I don't see any change.)
>
SZABO. Pronounce it SAY-BO. It has not changed!
>
>Once again we do apologise for this problem and will provide all those
>disappointed applicants with their own "Dark Charlie" Beer mug, and
>a referal to our sister organisation the Clones Institute of North Dakota.
>
>--
what kind? If not, why are you wasting my time? ;)
--Maria Szabo
Who just finished a paper on the Application of Johnson vs. Avery to Non-
Incarcerated Indigents and could use a beer or three.
Jacob W Michaels
: Clara K. Showalter writes:
: > >--Maria Szabo
: > >Who wants to be JUST LIKE drh when she grows up.
: >
: > On no! drh clones!! The world will never be the same...
: Well, I know they say the people resemble their pets, but this is ridiculous.
: Just because we all read X-books, doesn't mean we have to start acting like
: the damn books.
: I mean what's been happening round here recently, apart from "Who is the
: weirdo from NoDak?" posts? St. Kate has come back from the dead. Clones
: are abounding (and adrinking). People have been angsting about things in
: this group running as they should.
Hmmm, well, er, um, maybe this is the right time. I've got to tell you
guys something. . .I've been lying to you about my past all this time.
I'm not really Jewish journalist-in-training. I'm really a Polish
Presbyterian Minister who's infiltrating the Jewish community to learn
their plans for controlling the world and the media. Yeah, I know it's
shocking. And I should have told you before but see it was this big plan
that only me and drh knew about. Yeah, all those poppy bagels I kept
giving him. Inside were slips of paper with all the plans for world
domination and tricky ways to get huge pop stars to put offensive
lyrics in their songs. Anyway, I'm sorry I mislead you this whole time
and I hope you'll let me rejoin Team RACX with no hard feelings.
Jacob with head bowed, "that Jew from xbooks"
J. Michael Spectre
[+ Wow, I really never thought I'd make i... +]
*opening of pearly gates, lights flare*
G| YO! GOD IS IN DAH HEEEYY-OOOOWSE! WASSS-UUUUUUP?!!! |G
[+ Glik! It's not too late to sin, is it? +]
In article <803571...@belmonte.demon.co.uk> Alasdair Watson <alasdair@
belmonte.demon.co.uk> writes:>>
>> On no! drh clones!! The world will never be the same...
>
>Well, I know they say the people resemble their pets, but this is ridiculous.
>Just because we all read X-books, doesn't mean we have to start acting like
>the damn books.
>
>I mean what's been happening round here recently, apart from "Who is the
>weirdo from NoDak?" posts? St. Kate has come back from the dead. Clones
>are abounding (and adrinking). People have been angsting about things in
>this group running as they should.
>
Hey, cool, does that mean I get to mend my ways, and become a reluctant
hero? Will Marlon team up with !Tony and a resurrected HIGH (wasn't he on
racmisc, before the change?) to form the Dork Racxers, an inept team of
semi-nefarious posters who only manage to flame one or two of their own
members? Will the Dark Vod return? Will this become Impending Storm II,
resulting in hate and fear across all racx (not to mention nausea)? Bleh,
the horror, the horror.
>I'm starting to get worried.
>
>--
>Alasdair Watson - "B and B is better, The revolution's here!"
J. Spectre - actually, so am I. If rumors about a third O'Brien brother
start showing up...
.
@===========================J--S-P-E-C-T-R-E============================@
" There are some qualities--some incorporate things, "
" That have a double life, which thus is made, "
" A type of twin entity which springs "
" From matter and light, evinced in solid and shade. "
" -E. A. Poe, "Silence" "
@=========================jmj...@nic.smsu.edu==========================@
Alasdair Watson
> Nothing! I didn't do Nothing! My last name is SZABO. It has always been
> SZABO. Pronounce it SAY-BO. It has not changed!
I didn't think it had. drh's remark had me confused, that's all.
> Yeah, but do I get any Beer with my nifty "Dark Charlie" Beer mug?
Sorry, no. Charlie drank it. We can however provide some Budweiser.
Maria Szabo
tell...@osf1.gmu.edu (Timothy C Ellerbee) writes:
>: Maria Szabo (What have you done to your last name? I don't see any change.)
>
>: > Gosh. I put in an application to be an Alasdair clone or a "dark
>: > Charlie" clone, but there was a problem with customs and tariffs....
>
>: We at the Clones Institute of Great Britain wish to apologise to all those
>: who have applied to become clones of either of the two British RACXers who
>: are currently available for cloning. Sadly such a thing is not possible,
>: as attempting to combine the essential Britishness of these two beings
>: with the rest of the world would result in a creature who would tear itself
>: apart, as one half of it would crave alcohol of a fundamentaly British
>: (or Irish) variety, while the other would wish to drink crappy foreign
>: drinks.
>
Then Genevieve wrote:
>I'm working as hard as I can to reengineer the genes to be viable in
>todays world, but alas, the first Dark Charlie clone drank himself to
>death on Bartles and James wine coolers. The second one exploded. The
>third one insisted on barking "Jingle Bells" inceassently. But my strictly
>for-profit organization, Clones 'R Us, based in
>delightful Fairfax, Virginia, is still working towards a better clone for
>tomorrow. Honest.
>
I'll keep waiting with baited breath....please forward any information to
the Commonwealth Society for the Instigation and Perpetration of Cloning,
Louisville, Commonwealth of Kentucky, USA. It's so nice to see such
dedicated professionals at work!
>--Genevieve "Send me Money!" Hoog
>
You wish. BTW, when do you plan to authorize?
Maria Szabo
Who hasn't given up, and still want to be JUST LIKE drh when she grows up.
Maria Szabo
Alasdair Watson <alas...@belmonte.demon.co.uk> writes:
>Maria Szabo writes:
>
>
>> Yeah, but do I get any Beer with my nifty "Dark Charlie" Beer mug?
>
>Sorry, no. Charlie drank it. We can however provide some Budweiser.
>
>--
Charlie to stay away from my beer! :-)
--Maria Szabo
"There are people who would argue those are two of my best characteristics,
Hemingway." The White Queen
Maria Szabo
>Maria Szabo (MLSZ...@ulkyvm.louisville.edu) wrote:
>: Yeah, but do I get any Beer with my nifty "Dark Charlie" Beer mug? If so,
>: what kind? If not, why are you wasting my time? ;)
>Sorry...no *good* beer...but we do send you a case of Zima and a few
>bottles of Red Dog. Hey...the gene-manipulators here at Clones 'R Us
>*CARE* about you, damnit!
>
Phooey. If you really cared about me you would give me Guinness (and lots
of it!) :-) Guinness alone would do justice to a "Dark Charlie" mug.
--Maria Szabo
Who wants GUINNESS!
Charlie Ball
MLSZ...@ulkyvm.louisville.edu (Maria Szabo) writes:
>In article <803740...@belmonte.demon.co.uk>
>Alasdair Watson <alas...@belmonte.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>>Maria Szabo writes:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>Nonononono! A fate worse than death! I'd prefer Guinness. And tell
>Charlie to stay away from my beer! :-)
I'm sorry, I'm selectively deaf when it comes to entreaties involving staying
away from other people's drinks.
>--Maria Szabo
>"There are people who would argue those are two of my best characteristics,
>Hemingway." The White Queen
Charlie. He's drunk.
Katherine E. Martin
Personally, I want Felinfoel, but given as i won't get it, I'll just have
to volunteer at the Clone Lab. Izzat ok, Geni?
-kate?
Alasdair Watson
> Charlie. He's drunk.
Makes two of us. I've just finished my A-levels, and have been down the pub
for the last three hours drinking, as one might expect. In about 20
minutes, I'm going to eat dinner, then it's back down the pub to get even
more slaughtered. Much happiness abounds!
There was no point to that post, except to inform RACX of a happy event
in my life, and to invite them to celebrate with me, even if they can't
be with me. So to all those who might moan about me being off topic,
a hearty "Nyah!"
Timothy C Ellerbee
: -kate? Why, certainly! We here at Clones 'R Us are always ready to
welcome any new test subjects...er...uh...new researchers! And instead of
stock in the company, we give you access to our Tissue Samples of the
Stars, so you can have eight Harrison Ford clones rubbing your back and
feeding you peeled grapes, if you so choose. Welcome aboard!
--Genevieve
"He was just buggin' around, so I smacked him with my panties"
--Me at age three, upon being found bottomless
next to a dead bug
Maria Szabo
Alasdair Watson <alas...@belmonte.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>Makes two of us. I've just finished my A-levels, and have been down the pub
>for the last three hours drinking, as one might expect. In about 20
>minutes, I'm going to eat dinner, then it's back down the pub to get even
>more slaughtered. Much happiness abounds!
>
comes to mind...
--Maria Szabo
Who says "Have a drink for me!"
Katharine Weizel
Maria Szabo <MLSZ...@ulkyvm.louisville.edu> wrote:
>In article <803926...@belmonte.demon.co.uk>
>Alasdair Watson <alas...@belmonte.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>>
>>Makes two of us. I've just finished my A-levels, and have been down the pub
>>
>comes to mind...
>
left, but they'll take too long to get there.
btw, as far as I've gathered, A-level classes are like taking honors or
Advanced Placement-level classes, and the A-Levels themselves are like
taking the AP exams, but without all the cushy extra college credit if you
do well on them. Yes?
kate.
who learned half of this from Andy May, and the other half from Adrian Mole!!!
:p
--
| -Kate the Short- (ka...@cicero.spc.uchicago.edu) -at the U of Chicago- |
| Exclamation Points are the Spice of Life, and the Sorrow of the Reader |
Alasdair Watson
> In article <173C77FE6S...@ulkyvm.louisville.edu>,
> Maria Szabo <MLSZ...@ulkyvm.louisville.edu> wrote:
> >Hey, congradulations, Alasdair! BTW, what's an "A-level"? Some kind of
> >test comes to mind...
> >
> Congrats from me as well!!! Have a cider. I'd send you the few pence I
> have left, but they'll take too long to get there.
Thanks. Now all I've got to do is wait until August when the results come
out, to find out if I got good enough grades to make it to university.
[Sound of fingernails being chewed down to nothing]
> btw, as far as I've gathered, A-level classes are like taking honors or
> Advanced Placement-level classes, and the A-Levels themselves are like
> taking the AP exams, but without all the cushy extra college credit if you
> do well on them. Yes?
Umm, it might be easier to answer the question if I knew what Advanced
Placement levels were. But basically, A-levels are the exams you sit in
your final year of high school (usually at age 18), and your performance
in these exams determines whether or not the universities that you have
applied to will let you study there. For example, out of three exams (I
sat 4, but General Studies is not accepted as an A-level) I have to
achieve one Grade A and two Grade B's (at least) to go to Southampton
and study Law, as I wish. OTOH, if I fail to get ABB, but manged to get
BCC, I can go to the ever-exciting Kingston and study law. If I fail that,
I'm buggered, as I'll have to go into clearing (which means I could wind
up going to any University in the country), and there are rarely any law
placements available in Clearing.
clau...@ids.net
> your final year of high school (usually at age 18), and your performance
> in these exams determines whether or not the universities that you have
> applied to will let you study there. For example, out of three exams (I
> sat 4, but General Studies is not accepted as an A-level) I have to
> achieve one Grade A and two Grade B's (at least) to go to Southampton
> and study Law, as I wish. OTOH, if I fail to get ABB, but manged to get
Sounds more like an SAT or that other one that's more widelyt
used in the south (anyone?).
Question: What body administers the A-levels, do you have to pay
to take them, and can you re-take them or just one, if you fail?
I was about to bring up a point about AP exams and Acheivments
but have completely forgotten the difference. Oh well.
-Clau...@ids.net
Severe. Archangel. devotee
Joel Hahn
: Umm, it might be easier to answer the question if I knew what Advanced
: Placement levels were.
AP classes prepare you for the AP tests, which, if you do well enough on
them, can exempt you out of lower-level college courses.
: But basically, A-levels are the exams you sit in
: your final year of high school (usually at age 18), and your performance
: in these exams determines whether or not the universities that you have
: applied to will let you study there.
Sounds a bit like the German Abitur. And a bit like the American SAT or
ACT exams. But with the SAT or ACT, most univ's will allow good grades
in school to make up for poor test scores, as not everybody's equally
good at taking multiple-guess tests. :)
And Japan's version of that type of test is the single largest cause of
teenage suicide in that counrty. Just thought I'd brighten your day. :)
Aardy R. DeVarque
Feudalism: Serf & Turf
clau...@ids.net
> And Japan's version of that type of test is the single largest cause of
> teenage suicide in that counrty. Just thought I'd brighten your day. :)
>
well, huh? I wound up raising my score like 80 points through re-
takes. And they APPLY too! And if you REALLY still have a problem
with the test, you can take that all-day version where they give you
like four times the normal time to take it .
Suicide wow that's intense. Over a TEST?
Oh like my SAT did great things for me anyway.
Clau...@ids.net
Severe. Archangel. devotee
Maria Szabo
clau...@ids.net writes:
>In article <804012...@belmonte.demon.co.uk>, Alasdair Watson <alas...@belmonte.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
Then Claudine writes:
>Sounds more like an SAT or that other one that's more widelyt
>used in the south (anyone?).
>
study law here he'd have to take the SAT or ACT to get into a University,
probably would want to take some AP tests so he could place out of some
lower level classes and save money, then he'd have to get his BA in some
pre-law type subject (history is always good, or accounting, or business),
then take the LSAT test, after which, if his Univ. grades were good, AND
his LSAT score was acceptable, AND he had good references, he might get into
the Law School of his choice. Then it's two to three more years of hitting
the books, then getting a JD, then taking the Bar Exam. Is the study of Law
in England so convoluted?Anyway, the best of luck to Alasdair...I'm trying
to get into Law School myself. Aggravating, isn't it?
--Maria Szabo
Who is leaving tomorrow for sunny FLORIDA for a week on the beach.
Lady Amethyst
alas...@belmonte.demon.co.uk "Alasdair Watson" writes:
> Charlie Ball writes:
>
> > Charlie. He's drunk.
>
> Makes two of us. I've just finished my A-levels, and have been down the pub
> for the last three hours drinking, as one might expect. In about 20
> minutes, I'm going to eat dinner, then it's back down the pub to get even
> more slaughtered. Much happiness abounds!
> There was no point to that post, except to inform RACX of a happy event
> in my life, and to invite them to celebrate with me, even if they can't
> be with me. So to all those who might moan about me being off topic,
> a hearty "Nyah!"
>
That means I'm older than you, how worrying. I don't like being older
than people. What did you take? I did Biology and Geography SYS's.
--
Lady Amethyst | "There's such a fooled heart, beating
Keeper of the Labyrinth Flame | so fast. In search of new dreams a
"Your mother was a hamster and your | love that will last. Within your heart.
father smelt of elderberries." | I'll place the moon within your heart."
Michael Ellis
Um. Well. I think a bit of explanation is in order.
It's a bit diffucult to both overestimate and underestimate the importance
of college exams in Japan. If you want to go to college, and want to
go to a *good* college, then exams are everything. And I do mean everything.
If you ace the entrance exam to Tokyo University, you're _almost_ guaranteed
a job (and a decent job at that) upon graduation. More importantly,
without that university degree, your options are, for the most part,
quite limited. (Particularly in the more traditional companies and
governmental bureaucracies. The most powerful Japanese Ministries have
historically been comprised of Tokyo U. graduates with a few others
from the other top Japanese Universities.)
You're welcome to take the exams as many times as you like, but they
only come once a year, and each exam tends to be specific to the
university or college involved. (You can only take exams for so many
places.) It's not uncommon for students to spend a year or two (or
more) after High School studying only for these exams. They're
called 'ronin', a term which used to refer to masterless samurai.
If you don't get in after a few years, however, it's customary to
go to a 'lesser' school. (This isn't necessarily easy. For the vast
majority who do this, they know they're giving up the best chance they'll
have at 'making it'.) It's also worth noting that the exams are the
*only* way into the top schools. You could be the son or daughter
of the wealthiest Tokyou U. graduate on the planet, but if you can't
pass the exams, you can't get in. (This is somewhat offset by the
cost of tutors and special private schools which tutor exclusively
for exams, as opposed to the slightly more general subjects taught in
high school. End result is that if you can't afford them, your chances
of getting in are much less than they used to be thirty years ago.)
That's why the high suicide rate. Now, if you never expected to go
to college, or have given up, or have minimal chances and know it
(and accept it), the exams are no huge deal. But that's a small
part of the population. Remember that something like 90% of Japan
considers itself 'Middle Class', and going to college is one of those
things that is very attractive to the Middle Class. And, of course,
the higher one's aspirations, the greater the stress.
(There's another reason to want to go to college, by the way. The
workload in Japanese colleges has traditionally been so light as
to the point of absurdity. The four years of college are, therefore,
considered one of the three periods of 'play' in Japanese life. The
others are before the age of six (or ten), when you're a child, and after
retirement. During the rest of the time, you work at whatever. Again,
this has changed a lot in the last ten to fifteen years, but it still
applies to a lot of people.)
Japan is such fun. People keep wondering why I want to go back there
for a few years.
-- Mike
--
Michael K. Ellis
mke...@mordor.com
Timothy C Ellerbee
: In article <3s551a$5...@portal.gmu.edu>
: >I'm working as hard as I can to reengineer the genes to be viable in
: >todays world, but alas, the first Dark Charlie clone drank himself to
: >death on Bartles and James wine coolers. The second one exploded. The
: >third one insisted on barking "Jingle Bells" inceassently. But my strictly
: >for-profit organization, Clones 'R Us, based in
: >delightful Fairfax, Virginia, is still working towards a better clone for
: >tomorrow. Honest.
: >
: I'll keep waiting with baited breath....please forward any information to
: the Commonwealth Society for the Instigation and Perpetration of Cloning,
: Louisville, Commonwealth of Kentucky, USA. It's so nice to see such
: dedicated professionals at work!
Thanks! We'll send you our catalogue!
: >--Genevieve "Send me Money!" Hoog
: >
: You wish. BTW, when do you plan to authorize?
:
At the Baronial Champion's List and Novice Tourney, July 7-9. I was
hoping to authorize at Spring's End Tourney, but my mom had surgery
during that time period :(
: Maria Szabo
: Who hasn't given up, and still want to be JUST LIKE drh when she grows up.
--
--Genevieve "Come to Collegium Borealis!" Hoog
Kevin White
>jh...@nslsilus.org (Joel Hahn) writes:
>> And Japan's version of that type of test is the single largest cause of
> How depressing. I guess they can't keep re-taking them till they do
>well, huh? I wound up raising my score like 80 points through re-
>takes. And they APPLY too! And if you REALLY still have a problem
>with the test, you can take that all-day version where they give you
>like four times the normal time to take it .
> Suicide wow that's intense. Over a TEST?
"We're not like those guys in the movies. They get 17 takes. We
get one take, and it lasts our entire life."
The German Abitur and the Japanese placement test(as well as the
A-levels, it sounds like) are all one-shot tests that determine your
aptitude for a university education. No retakes. If you fail, you don't
go to college. Oh sure, there are other options, like move to the United
States. But that option isn't open to many. The point is, the stress
associated with these tests is extremely intense. In Japan, great shame
is culturally associated with failure.
So not only is the student's future ruined, but they are deeply
ashamed of their failure. This leads to a _very_ low self-esteem. If
the student is further ostracized from friends and family...
> Oh like my SAT did great things for me anyway.
I may have a problem or two with the American education system,
but I must admit it is much more forgiving than most European or Asian
education systems.
--
Kevin White - whit...@uidaho.edu