Spider-Man vs. X-Men
John William King
: Question: Can Spider-Man take on the X-Men all by himself and kick
: their collective tails? True, since there are so many X-Men, it's
: just a matter of out-numbering him. But, I think Spidey could still
: take on a smaller group of X-Men. He's fought and defeated the
: original X-Men on a number of occasions, and kicked the "new" X-Men
: around in the original Secret Wars. So, who could defeat Spidey and
: who would get clobbered by him. Any theories?
: Bobby, Keeper of the Scrapper Flame
You've got to be kidding. Any two X-Men (barring Jubilee, I'm willing to
get flamed for it, but I don't count her) can take Spidey. For those of
you who are offended by this, remember I said ANY two, and since spidey
has several of his own books, he gets special treatment.
Bill King
formerly an acquaintence of the vodkinator on irc
I went by Colossus then
Steve Eldridge
so was Spidey, but in the begining Spidey kept going up against all the
really bad villains. I mean, how tough was Magneto in his first
appearance? It took them years to find a REALLY powerful villain. Even
the original Brotherhood O' Evil Mutants wasn't all that tough. every
original X-Men character is more powerful (Especially Ice-Man and Jean
Grey) I will therefore tell you who I think could beat Spidey.
BEAST, Spidey may have Webbing, more strength, and a spider-sense, but
Hank is tougher, smarter, and has claws.
NIGHT-CRAWLER Telaporting will beat strength
JEAN GREY, a telapath'll beat anyone
PSYLOCKE, see above
ROGUE, invulnerability and strength
ICE-MAN, that neat lil' freezing thing he did to Legion in X-Men 41
STORM, she's got, like, cosmic powers
Cyke might, but he'd trash half the city first
Such a one who, while wearing a copper nose ring, stands in a bath atop
Mt. Raruaraha during a thunderstorm and shouts that the goddess of
lightning
has the facial features of a diseased uloruaha root!!
Harvey T Griffin
>
> Question: Can Spider-Man take on the X-Men all by himself and kick
>their collective tails? True, since there are so many X-Men, it's
>just a matter of out-numbering him. But, I think Spidey could still
>take on a smaller group of X-Men. He's fought and defeated the
>original X-Men on a number of occasions, and kicked the "new" X-Men
>around in the original Secret Wars. So, who could defeat Spidey and
>who would get clobbered by him. Any theories?
>
> Bobby, Keeper of the Scrapper Flame
You asked for it.
Could not hang if immortal soul depended on it:
Cyclops
Beast
Gambit
Britannic
Warpath
Bishop
Husk
Wolfsbane
M? (Cockyness would be her undoing)
Eat the arachnid for a quick snack:
A.C.T. (Any Compitent Telepath)
Storm
Banshee
Syrin
Magneto
Cologne or Happosai (DAMN YOU ANIMATION CLUB MY MIND IS RUINED!!!!)
All I can think of for now, any corrections or additions?
HTG (Ranma _and_ X-men junkie, my GPA's shot.)
The Stranger
All right, I'm gonna go out on an obviously unpopular limb here...
On Fri, 24 Feb 1995, rai wrote:
> Spidey might have taken the x-men before (like in the original secret
> wars), but with the current power increases on the x-men like ice-man's
> and arc-angel's, Parker would'nt stand a chance. He had a lot of trouble
Just like he hasn't stood a chance against Doc Ock's and the Scorpions'
power uppages (and every other villain/team he's fought)?
> with just wolvering in Spiderman vs. Wolverine. Ruthless people like
That entire story was rubbish! Spiderman cant' break Wolverine's skull,
true; but fists hitting human flesh hard enough to smash cars would have
left him with bloody pulp for a face, and prob brain damage (his skull
isn't vibranium).
> Sabretooth and Bishop would tear Spidey up. Spidey might do well against
He already beat Sabes, twice; and Bishop is just a souped-up Punisher,
who never realistically gave Peter any trouble.
> individual x-men, but against any team, there would only be spider juice
> left.
hmmm....
>
> rai, Keeper of the Reavers Flame!
The Stranger
On 24 Feb 1995, Steve Eldridge wrote:
> BEAST, Spidey may have Webbing, more strength, and a spider-sense, but
> Hank is tougher, smarter, and has claws.
Claws are only a benefit if you can get close enough to use them, which
is unlikely. Hank is a better fighter, however, and one of the few people
I might agree is equal to Spidey in agility.
> NIGHT-CRAWLER Telaporting will beat strength
But not enhanced reflexes and spider-sense.
> JEAN GREY, a telapath'll beat anyone
> PSYLOCKE, see above
Reading thoughts is one thing, reacting fast enough to act on them, quite
another.
> ROGUE, invulnerability and strength
She wasn't strong enough to break his webbing before, why now?
> ICE-MAN, that neat lil' freezing thing he did to Legion in X-Men 41
> STORM, she's got, like, cosmic powers
These are iffy.
> Cyke might, but he'd trash half the city first
Never, for the same reasons as Nightcrawler.
dex,
who'd love to see Spidey and Kitty in a LS.
Jason Adam Johnson
> In article <1995Feb23.203332.116509@daniel> rcoa...@daniel.drew.edu writes:
> >
> > Question: Can Spider-Man take on the X-Men all by himself and kick
> >their collective tails? True, since there are so many X-Men, it's
> >just a matter of out-numbering him. But, I think Spidey could still
> >take on a smaller group of X-Men. He's fought and defeated the
> >original X-Men on a number of occasions, and kicked the "new" X-Men
> >around in the original Secret Wars. So, who could defeat Spidey and
> >who would get clobbered by him. Any theories?
> >
> > Bobby, Keeper of the Scrapper Flame
>
> You asked for it.
>
> Could not hang if immortal soul depended on it:
> Cyclops
enough to make him a real threat. If they were out for blood
cyclops is gone.
Beast
A rough fight, but again spidey would win. Could, Beast live in
a one on one against Venom? Nope, he's not agile enough. Plus
spiderman's spider sense gives him a great advantage.
> Gambit
Gambit. Oh please, this would make the tyson spinks fight look
like a marathon...Next!
> Britannic
Warpath
> Bishop
It takes more than just brute strength or a weapon to beat
spiderman. Remember, writer's bias or not, Peter Parker's got
some pretty formative powers.
> Husk
Maby, if she had as much control over her powers as was shown
in Gen Next, Spiderman would be in for a fight.
> Wolfsbane
> M? (Cockyness would be her undoing)
Wolfsbane? Pul-leeeze! M, it's hard to tell she probably has
powers we don't even know yet.
> Eat the arachnid for a quick snack:
> A.C.T. (Any Compitent Telepath)
I agree, telepaths can basically take out anyone.
> Storm
Yeah, spiderman'd be toast, if it was a serious out for blood
fight, storm could level a city just LOOKING for Spiderman.
> Banshee
> Syrin
Nope. Spiderman can hold his own against Shriek. Who, although
she is not a well thought out or written character, uses her
sonic powers to a greater degree than either of these two.
> Magneto
Uhm. Magneto is the single most powerful solo powered (ie:
Synch not included) mutant when it comes to the physical realm.
And actually, he has such finnesse over his skills that he is
hard to stop telepathically as well.
Cologne or Happosai (DAMN YOU ANIMATION CLUB MY MIND IS RUINED!!!!)
>
>
> All I can think of for now, any corrections or additions?
>
>
> HTG (Ranma _and_ X-men junkie, my GPA's shot.)
Ah, another Ranma fan, I didn't know there were that many!
Swoop 5-
Ric
: Spider-Man wouldn't beat folks like Storm and Banshee in the open...
: but he could beat them in a city, or in a building of sorts..
:
: he's beat FIRE LORD you cheese-heads!!!
[...]
: ANd the reason SPider-Man beat
: Fire Lord was because he was able to dodge Fire Lord and continuously
: attack him indirectly or from a distance.
:
: A telepath would have a hard time against a jumping, bouncing Spider-Man,
: one with a stronger than average will. Plus, we all know Psylocke, being
: a total twit, would NEVER use her psi powers from a distance unless
: she was really bored.
Hmmm...Just like the "Most Powerful Mutant" thread a while back... Now I
guess I'm required by law to put...
Blink! (both pre and during Alter-X)
(After all, she took out a cruiser, some Phalanx, and [AlterX] Rogue...)
rcoa...@daniel.drew.edu
Vorpal Bunny(TM)
: > NIGHT-CRAWLER Telaporting will beat strength
: <But not enhanced reflexes and spider-sense.>
: Nightcrawler is, however, IMO, at least *damn* close, to Spidey's
: agility..
Still..teleportation would do him no good, since Spider-Man would know
where he'd go to.
: > JEAN GREY, a telapath'll beat anyone
: > PSYLOCKE, see above
: <Reading thoughts is one thing, reacting fast enough to act on them, quite
: another.>
: No. They don't have to react fast enough to act on them, they just have to
: hit his mind, and prevent him from moving, thinking, doing anything. Jean
: or Psylocke would win, hands down, unless he could get to them first.
: Psylocke, I have my doubts about. Spideys' faster, and one hit'll have her
: down. Jean, though, would be smart enough to erect a TK field, and Spidey
: couldn't get through that.
They STILL have to get past his strength of will...besides, a TK field
is tough, but Spider-Man is extremely intelligent, and he would do anything
from going home, or finding a way to use her power against her. Especially
since Jean has a tendency to never user her power in any meaningful
manner.
: > ROGUE, invulnerability and strength
: <She wasn't strong enough to break his webbing before, why now?>
: She can fly at supersonic speed, lift 50+ tons, and resist any and all
: damage that Spidey could inflict. Spidey goes down *fast*, unless he can
: get past that extreme flight and hit her with the webs on the *first* try.
: And even then, who knows?
Aww come on...she couldn't beat Titania.....the same super-powered,
100ton lifting, indestructible villain that SPider-Man beat. Just because
he can't punch her doesn't mean he can't hurt her. Rogue still has to
touch him, just once...and that's iffy.
: > ICE-MAN, that neat lil' freezing thing he did to Legion in X-Men 41
: > STORM, she's got, like, cosmic powers
: <These are iffy.>
He's beat Ice Man before. And as for Storm, her power is useless in
enclosed spaces, where SPider-Man would have a much better chance of
beating her..
: No, the X-rs would get it.
: > Cyke might, but he'd trash half the city first
: <Never, for the same reasons as Nightcrawler.>
: Never's a strong word. One blast on Spidey and he's down. I'd say maybe.
Spider-Sense, Spider-Sense, doing things Sense can!
--
\\ \\ /\ Daily Orange Staff Writer SP "Quip _IS_ /\
\\-\\ /\ SyraCWIS Project Document Maintainer O a valid /\
( X-X) /\ AND Keeper of the Forbush Man Flame O word in /\
{_^_} [ >>--> http://web.syr.edu/~holee/ N! newswriting!" ]
Charlie Ball
I give it to Jamie, admittedly after a while.....when hitting someone just
makes them multiply, you're in for a hard time.
Charlie Ball : ms...@lily.csv.warwick.ac.uk
"You scientists are all so sinister." - "Peer Gynt", Ibsen.
nic...@d0gs02.fnal.gov
>> Cyke might, but he'd trash half the city first
>
> <Never, for the same reasons as Nightcrawler.>
>
>
velocity. So, if he doesn't get Spidey in the FIRST shot, Spidey needs only a
punch to send Scott to Morpheus (or even his older sister) arms (ops, wrong
newsgroup!). And considering that is very hard for anybody to hit Spidey
anytime with any kind of gun, I think old Scotty doesn't have a chance...
Nicola
nic...@d0gs02.fnal.gov
> In article <3iq8fj$p...@newstand.syr.edu>,
> Vorpal Bunny(TM) <ho...@syr.edu> wrote:
>>Nyx Ntshad (nyxn...@aol.com) wrote:
>>: > NIGHT-CRAWLER Telaporting will beat strength
>>
>>: <But not enhanced reflexes and spider-sense.>
>>
>>: Nightcrawler is, however, IMO, at least *damn* close, to Spidey's
>>: agility..
>>
>>Still..teleportation would do him no good, since Spider-Man would know
>>where he'd go to.
>
> show up. Spidey might know the instant when Kurt apears again (like in
> front or behind him from spidey sense), but I seriously doubt Spidey
> would know where Kurt would go.
>
>>Spider-Sense, Spider-Sense, doing things Sense can!
> something that's not right. Trust me, there is a slight difference.
>
Well, Kurt, my all-time favourite X-Men, would have the same problem
that Scott: Spidey has super-strenght. If you consider that he can bend
metal, throw very heavy things, etc, you'll see that one has to be real
strong to affect Spidey with a punch. On the other side, Spidey's punchs
can break the neck of any normal-strenght guy, and as far as I know Kurt
has normal human strenght.
Sure, if you look at ASM a hundred something (second Punisher
appearance) you'll see that he and Kurt fight like equals. But that doesn't
make sense (sorry, Len Wein). Usually writers make Spidey strong when he is
dealing with non-live
stuff (cars, containers) but when he fights anybody he seems like a normal
guy. Take Doc Octopus: once Spidey passes the tentacles, he only needs a
punch, Ock is only a normal guy with extra arms. Or the Vulture! Spidey
should beat him with open hands. So, this discussion looses it's meaning
since Marvel's power levels are so poorly estabilished...
Does anybody remember when Spidey beated the Fantastic Four?
Nicola
Charlie Ball
j...@eden.rutgers.edu (Joe Helfrich) writes:
>ms...@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Charlie Ball) writes:
>
>>Ok then. How's about Spidey vs Jamie?
>>I give it to Jamie, admittedly after a while.....when hitting someone just
>>makes them multiply, you're in for a hard time.
>
>light, and his dupes go poof.
Don't work like that - it's Jamie, not Flashback. He grows new Jamies
when he's struck. - and they're capable of functioning without Jamie
Prime.
Jeff Wickel
>In article <3is09c$i...@er5.rutgers.edu>,
> j...@eden.rutgers.edu (Joe Helfrich) writes:
>>ms...@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Charlie Ball) writes:
>>
>>>Ok then. How's about Spidey vs Jamie?
>>>I give it to Jamie, admittedly after a while.....when hitting someone just
>>>makes them multiply, you're in for a hard time.
>>
>>Yeah, but all Spidey needs is one quick uppercut and Jamie goes out like a
>>light, and his dupes go poof.
>
>Don't work like that - it's Jamie, not Flashback. He grows new Jamies
>when he's struck. - and they're capable of functioning without Jamie
>Prime.
In X-Factor 73, when the original Jamie(s?) were knocked out, the dupes
disappeared.
| |_|-|_| |---------------------------------------------------------------|
| | | | Taper=Jeff Wickel | Keeper of the Wolfsbane Flame |
| | | |Echoed howling through my soul/rippling outward leaves me whole|
| _|___|_ |-----------------(ta...@yvax.byu.edu)--------------------------|
Marlon Shows
|> In article <3iq8fj$p...@newstand.syr.edu>,
|> Vorpal Bunny(TM) <ho...@syr.edu> wrote:
|> >: > NIGHT-CRAWLER Telaporting will beat strength
|> >
|> >: <But not enhanced reflexes and spider-sense.>
|> >
|> >: Nightcrawler is, however, IMO, at least *damn* close, to Spidey's
|> >: agility..
|> >
|> >Still..teleportation would do him no good, since Spider-Man would know
|> >where he'd go to.
|>
|> show up. Spidey might know the instant when Kurt apears again (like in
|> front or behind him from spidey sense), but I seriously doubt Spidey
|> would know where Kurt would go.
|>
|> something that's not right. Trust me, there is a slight difference.
Not really.
Spider-Sense saves spidey from bullets and energy weapons.
These things travel at the speed of light.
Kurt and his puny reflexes aren't quick enough to beat the Spider-Sense.
Nothing is.
|>
|> Jerry
|>
|> --
|> wren...@leland.stanford.edu
--
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88 `8b d8' 88 |\/ / Rm 514
88 `8b d8' 88 | | /\ Cambridge, MA 02139
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88 `888' 88 | *| <-DETROIT
88 `8' 88 /_____________\ (representin')
(A Ray English creation, with my editing)
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Marlon Shows
|>
|> <Aww come on...she couldn't beat Titania.....the same super-powered,
|> 100ton lifting, indestructible villain that SPider-Man beat. Just because
|> he can't punch her doesn't mean he can't hurt her. Rogue still has to
|> touch him, just once...and that's iffy.>
|>
|> It's also iffy that he'd catch her, just once, in the web. But Spidey
|> doesn't move at supersonic speeds. If Rogue got going fast enough, she'd
|> hit him, hard, before he had a chance to move more than a few inches.
Every heard of Spider-Sense?
She ain't hitting nothing except the wall of a building as he jumps over her.
|>
|> : > ICE-MAN, that neat lil' freezing thing he did to Legion in X-Men 41
|> : > STORM, she's got, like, cosmic powers
|>
|> : <These are iffy.>
|>
|> <He's beat Ice Man before.>
|>
|> So what? Iceman just went through a major power uppance.
Yes, but is still pretty weak. That Legion thing won't work on Spider-Man.
he won't just sit still like Legion and let him freeze his body.
|> <And as for Storm, her power is useless in enclosed spaces, where
|> SPider-Man would have a much better chance ofbeating her..>
|>
|> With Storm, I suppose it'd depend on *where* they fought.
she still would only be able to use wind and lightning bolts.
That is almost no challenge to spidey.
|>
|> Like I said... maybe. Depends on how fast Cyke's beams move, really. If he
|> could fire off before Spidey had a chance to move, and the beams are
|> faster than Spidey, dead arachnid.
You don't understand.
Spidey-Sense reacts before he even visualizes the threat.
Projectiles, including Cyke's Beam, have never given Spidey a problem.
Marlon Shows
|> In article <3is09c$i...@er5.rutgers.edu>,
|> j...@eden.rutgers.edu (Joe Helfrich) writes:
|> >ms...@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Charlie Ball) writes:
|> >
|> >>Ok then. How's about Spidey vs Jamie?
|> >>I give it to Jamie, admittedly after a while.....when hitting someone just
|> >>makes them multiply, you're in for a hard time.
|> >
|> >Yeah, but all Spidey needs is one quick uppercut and Jamie goes out like a
|> >light, and his dupes go poof.
|>
|> Don't work like that - it's Jamie, not Flashback. He grows new Jamies
|> when he's struck. - and they're capable of functioning without Jamie
|> Prime.
So knock Jamie Prime out, and dispose of the fakes.
They don't reproduce to, do they?
Also, he could just rap them up in a steel cage or something.
They have normal strength.
|>
|> Charlie Ball : ms...@lily.csv.warwick.ac.uk
|> "You scientists are all so sinister." - "Peer Gynt", Ibsen.
|>
--
Nyx Ntshad
|> doesn't move at supersonic speeds. If Rogue got going fast enough,
she'd
|> hit him, hard, before he had a chance to move more than a few inches.
<Every heard of Spider-Sense?>
Yes.
<She ain't hitting nothing except the wall of a building as he jumps over
her.>
"If Rogue got going fast enough, she'd hit him, hard, before he had a
chance to move more than a few inches."
Spidey's fast, but he doesn't move at supersonic speeds, and neither does
his head. Handled with any degree of 'realism', his mind wouldn't register
the command to move before she got to him. And even if it did, he doesn't
move fast enough to dodge.
|> So what? Iceman just went through a major power uppance.
<Yes, but is still pretty weak. That Legion thing won't work on
Spider-Man. he won't just sit still like Legion and let him freeze his
body.>
Uh, whatever. So he freezes everything nearby. <shrug>
|> With Storm, I suppose it'd depend on *where* they fought.
<she still would only be able to use wind and lightning bolts.That is
almost no challenge to spidey.>
Actually, no she *wouldn't* be able to use just wind and lightning. Freeze
the air to subzero temp, whip the wind *everywhere* in the nearby area.
Spidey can't get away, and he can't survive sub-zero forever.
|> Like I said... maybe. Depends on how fast Cyke's beams move, really. If
he
|> could fire off before Spidey had a chance to move, and the beams are
|> faster than Spidey, dead arachnid.
<You don't understand.>
Yes, I do. YOU don't.
<Spidey-Sense reacts before he even visualizes the threat. Projectiles,
including Cyke's Beam, have never given Spidey a problem.>
I repeat, it depends on how fast Cyke's beams move. Like with Rogue,
handled with any realism, the guy's *brain* would not *register* a command
to move in time to dodge. Doesn't matter when he senses the danger, his
body only moves but so fast, and if something's faster, he can't get out
of the way in time to save himself.
Nyx
Fan of everything Magnus, except his helmet, and especially his hair.
"Shoring up the sides... pillars hold me up. Mortar me here, mortar me
there. Gonna need stronger underwear to keep this spine upright. Reaching
to the sky, stone by stone. A character flaw will bring it all down. Gonna
have to call the mason round. And sturdy up the ground." (Happy Rhodes,
"Building the Colossus")
Christopher Bird
> > ROGUE, invulnerability and strength
> <She wasn't strong enough to break his webbing before, why now?>
> She can fly at supersonic speed, lift 50+ tons, and resist any and all
> damage that Spidey could inflict. Spidey goes down *fast*, unless he can
> get past that extreme flight and hit her with the webs on the *first* try.
> And even then, who knows?
A) Spidey COULD hit Rogue on the first try.
B) The Thing can list 75+ tons, and HE can't break Spidey's webbing.
Spidey in an iffy one.
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Christopher Bird
> Spidey's fast, but he doesn't move at supersonic speeds, and neither does
> his head. Handled with any degree of 'realism', his mind wouldn't register
> the command to move before she got to him. And even if it did, he doesn't
> move fast enough to dodge.
If Spidey reacted like a normal human, sure. But, Spidey reacts *ahead
of time* of any threat save Venom.
Quick summary:
Spidey: Man. What's with my Spider-Sense? Uh-oh-DUCK!
(Rogue shoots past overhead at supersonic speed.)
SPidey: Lucky thing I have my Spider-Sense!
(HE then webs her up on the next pass.)
> Actually, no she *wouldn't* be able to use just wind and lightning. Freeze
> the air to subzero temp, whip the wind *everywhere* in the nearby area.
> Spidey can't get away, and he can't survive sub-zero forever.
So? He makes his webbing really viscuous, and splatters Storm. Quick
and simple.
> I repeat, it depends on how fast Cyke's beams move. Like with Rogue,
> handled with any realism, the guy's *brain* would not *register* a command
> to move in time to dodge. Doesn't matter when he senses the danger, his
> body only moves but so fast, and if something's faster, he can't get out
> of the way in time to save himself.
Once again, Spidey REACTS TO THREATS BEFORE THEY OCCUR! My personal
belief is that it is a form of precognition, really. Spidey has dodged
lasers in the past.
Jerry Wei-Hsuan Lee
In article <3it9e5$t...@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>,
Marlon Shows <sh...@athena.mit.edu> wrote:
>
>Not really.
>Spider-Sense saves spidey from bullets and energy weapons.
>These things travel at the speed of light.
Oh, I *see* now....So not only do bullets and energy weapons move at the
Speed of Light....so does Spidey. Hmmmm....I think I might have missed
something here...Nahhh....must just be my imagination.
Heaven forbid should we try and have a race (or speed of reflexes)
between Spidey and Quicksilver. ;)
>Kurt and his puny reflexes aren't quick enough to beat the Spider-Sense.
>Nothing is.
Puny reflexes? heh.
Jerry
Vorpal Bunny(TM)
It gives him approx a minute's warning BEFORE an event occurs..
according to the OHOTMU. Therfore, Rogue can be flying super-fast,
but Spider-Man would be able to sense her a minute before she hits
him. So spider-sense IS a rough form of precognition. So super-sonic
speed isn't going to do Rogue THAT much advantage...besides, going
super-sonic in a crowded city like New York, Rogue would do a lot
of damage before she even gets near Spider-Man. He could just hear
the windows smashing and just decide to go home.
--
\\ \\ /\ Daily Orange Staff Writer SP "Quip _IS_ /\
\\-\\ \/ SyraCWIS Project Document Maintainer O a valid \/
( X-X) /\ AND Keeper of the Forbush Man Flame O word in /\
{_^_} \/ >>--> http://web.syr.edu/~holee/ N! newswriting!" \/
Specter
>In article <3iqqi9$s...@elaine57.Stanford.EDU>, wren...@leland.Stanford.EDU (Jerry Wei-Hsuan Lee) writes:
>|> In article <3iq8fj$p...@newstand.syr.edu>,
>|> Vorpal Bunny(TM) <ho...@syr.edu> wrote:
>|> >Nyx Ntshad (nyxn...@aol.com) wrote:
>|> >: > NIGHT-CRAWLER Telaporting will beat strength
>|> >
>|> >: <But not enhanced reflexes and spider-sense.>
>|> >
>|> >: Nightcrawler is, however, IMO, at least *damn* close, to Spidey's
>|> >: agility..
>|> >
>|> >Still..teleportation would do him no good, since Spider-Man would know
>|> >where he'd go to.
>|>
>|> Huh? How do you figure? I don't think Spidey can predict where Kurt will
>|> show up. Spidey might know the instant when Kurt apears again (like in
>|> front or behind him from spidey sense), but I seriously doubt Spidey
>|> would know where Kurt would go.
>|>
>|> >Spider-Sense, Spider-Sense, doing things Sense can!
>|> Yep! But it can't predict the future...just warns him of danger or
>|> something that's not right. Trust me, there is a slight difference.
>
>
>Not really.
>Spider-Sense saves spidey from bullets and energy weapons.
>These things travel at the speed of light.
Side note: Contrary to what is portrayed in comics, bullets do _not_
travel at the speed of light. Now lasers, that's different.
>Kurt and his puny reflexes aren't quick enough to beat the Spider-Sense.
>Nothing is.
Actually, if Kurt does his multi-Bamf attack on Spidey, he might land a
couple blows, but I still think that Spidey would win.
Specter
(Sheesh, muzzle velocity of 3*10^8 m/s... yeah right.)
---
"Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum."
The Stranger
Complicated subject, but here goes:
As I understand it, Spider-Man's reflexes are like some insects and
arachnids: they *do not require* conscious thought to trigger in response
to danger. Remember his first app., when he jumped out of the way of that
car? Also, his reaction is proportionate to the danger potential of the
threat: he'd jump faster and farther from Cyke's blasts than he would
from a gunshot. Add this to the fact that his reflexes are (by memory)
*fifteen times faster* than human, and there's no way that Rouge,
Cyclops, or Nightcrawler (the latter two only have human speed and
agility, Rouge is uncertain) can tag him, esp with spider-sense, which
app. registers threats *before they occur*.
dex
> "If Rogue got going fast enough, she'd hit him, hard, before he had a
> chance to move more than a few inches."
>
> Spidey's fast, but he doesn't move at supersonic speeds, and neither does
> his head. Handled with any degree of 'realism', his mind wouldn't register
> the command to move before she got to him. And even if it did, he doesn't
> move fast enough to dodge.
>
> |> Like I said... maybe. Depends on how fast Cyke's beams move, really. If
> he
> |> could fire off before Spidey had a chance to move, and the beams are
> |> faster than Spidey, dead arachnid.
>
The Stranger
On 26 Feb 1995, Vorpal Bunny wrote:
> Yes..and Mr. "I have a bone skeleton" could NOT survive being hit
> by a car who can punch with the force of mac truck. Unless Spider-Man
> knows Wolverine has the adamantium removed, he would hit full force,
> and crush Wolverine's skull instantly. Of course, he'd feel guilty as
> hell about it, but that's not too improbable.
Actually, realistically, Mr. "I have an adamantium skeleton" could NOT
survive being hit that hard either. Since adamntium doesn't have the
absorbant properties of vibranium (or bounty), the force transmitted
through the metal skull would make jam of Logan's brains, to say nothing
of a bloody pulp of his face.
dex
The Stranger
On 27 Feb 1995 nic...@d0gs02.fnal.gov wrote:
> Well, as far as I know Cyclops doesn't have enhanced strenght or
> velocity. So, if he doesn't get Spidey in the FIRST shot, Spidey needs only a
> punch to send Scott to Morpheus (or even his older sister) arms (ops, wrong
> newsgroup!). And considering that is very hard for anybody to hit Spidey
> anytime with any kind of gun, I think old Scotty doesn't have a chance...
It's perhaps worth mentioning that the original 5 X-Men did fight Spidey,
at least twice...the issue I'm thinking of, Spidey was sick, dying, and
*still* kicked their butts...Cyclops says something along the lines of
"If only I could hit him...but it's as though he knows where and when I'm
going to shoot!" In the end, it was Jean who brought him down, but *not*
with telepathy. The other time was with the original X-Factor and went
much the same...
dex
The Stranger
> run away or just dodge forever. And the key is teamwork. Any two Xmen,
> with the limit mentioned, could probably take out Web Head, if they worked
> together. If not, Peter (which ever one he is, I gave up after I saw the
> preview for Amazing 401 at the con) would make short work of them.
>
> Joe
I'd up that number somewhat. Except for the original 5, the X-Men don't
have the experience at teamwork the Fantastic Four have, and Spider-Man
held his own with them in a manificent battle. But it would be teamwork
that would bring him down.
dex
The Stranger
Comments made about Spider-Man and Nightcrawler got me thinking; who is
the most agile mutant? this is how I figure it:
Beast: superhumanly strong muscles and coordination; can walk a tightrope
like most people walk sidewalks, acc. to the MU.
Longshot: hollow & flexible bones, enhanced musculature; pulls off
amazing moves, esp with luck power.
Nightcrawler: flexible spine, prehensile tail, training of circus
acrobat, but otherwise *no superhuman enhancements*; sticks to walls
Gambit: faster than just about anyone, but *does not* have super agility;
does, however, move "a lot like Longshot" acc. to Wolvie
Jubilee: read her first few appearances; impressive.
Can anyone add to or improve on this? See ya in the E-papers!
dex,
who thinks that Spidey is still faster and more agile than all of the above!
Scott Yukuto Amano
[stuff deleted]
>"If Rogue got going fast enough, she'd hit him, hard, before he had a
>chance to move more than a few inches."
>Spidey's fast, but he doesn't move at supersonic speeds, and neither does
>his head. Handled with any degree of 'realism', his mind wouldn't register
>the command to move before she got to him. And even if it did, he doesn't
>move fast enough to dodge.
I think I would have to disagree with you there. I do believe Spidey has
"spider reflexes" too. Wouldn't this compensate?
[Iceman stuff deleted]
>
>|> With Storm, I suppose it'd depend on *where* they fought.
><she still would only be able to use wind and lightning bolts.That is
>almost no challenge to spidey.>
>Actually, no she *wouldn't* be able to use just wind and lightning. Freeze
>the air to subzero temp, whip the wind *everywhere* in the nearby area.
>Spidey can't get away, and he can't survive sub-zero forever.
Waitaminute...In the time Storm does all this, Spidey could rush her and
pop her on the chin. I have no idea how long all the weather stuff
takes, but it can't be that quick.
[stuff about Cyke deleted]
>I repeat, it depends on how fast Cyke's beams move. Like with Rogue,
>handled with any realism, the guy's *brain* would not *register* a command
>to move in time to dodge. Doesn't matter when he senses the danger, his
>body only moves but so fast, and if something's faster, he can't get out
>of the way in time to save himself.
Like I said before, spider (super) reflexes! If Spidey can dodge bullets
moving at supersonic speeds, why can't he dodge Rogue?
[sig deleted]
{This is not a flame, BTW}
Scotty
--
Scott Y. Amano address: umam...@cc.umanitoba.ca
Scott Y. Amano, reserves the right to explode into a million
fragments and shower the immediate area with his intestinal debris.
*************San Francisco 49ers, Super Bowl XXIX Champions****************
Randall S Spaulding
William King) writes:
> rcoa...@daniel.drew.edu wrote:
>
> : Question: Can Spider-Man take on the X-Men all by himself and kick
to
> get flamed for it, but I don't count her) can take Spidey. For those of
> you who are offended by this, remember I said ANY two, and since spidey
> has several of his own books, he gets special treatment.
> Bill King
> formerly an acquaintence of the vodkinator on irc
> I went by Colossus then
I seem to remember a wolverine and spider-man special issue in which
wolvie trashed spidey in a graveyard in Germany when the wall was still
up.
John Kress
Well, I've recently been translating various Marvel characters into the
system of the DC Heroes role playing game (much better system, I think),
and here's how I rated the folks you mention as to the DEX attribute:
Spidey 16
Nightcrawler 14
Beast 14
Gambit 13
Wolverine 11
Sabretooth 11
Captain America 11
Storm 9
Cyclops 8
Each of the breaks represents a different level of performance. As it stands,
Spidey is _incredibly_ hard to hit... which is how it should be, I think.
Kressja -- "Of _course_ Rogue is my favorite X-Man. Isn't she yours?" --
"...woke up wondering where I was and why women in armor were so eager for
me to get up." -_Kid Dynamo_ "Fine. Life as an X-Man. Ah can deal with that.
It's the personal side o' my life where everything falls apart." - Rogue
udhru...@cc.memphis.edu
> In article <3ijhmj$2...@ccshst05.cs.uoguelph.ca>,
> John William King <jk...@uoguelph.ca> wrote:
>>rcoa...@daniel.drew.edu wrote:
>>
>>: Question: Can Spider-Man take on the X-Men all by himself and kick
>>: their collective tails?
>
>>get flamed for it, but I don't count her) can take Spidey. For those of
>>you who are offended by this, remember I said ANY two, and since spidey
>>has several of his own books, he gets special treatment.
>
> Personally, I'd like to see an Archangel and Wolverine vs. Spiderman book.
> That would last maybe three panels. It would go like this...
>
> Wolverine: That's it, bub. Now you're in trouble.
>
> -SNIKT-
>
> Spidey: Oh crap!
>
> Archangel: Logan, don't bother. I'll just skewer him with my living wings.
>
> -SOUND OF PETER PARKER BEING IMPALED BY LIVING METAL WINGS-
>
> Wolverine: Thanks Warren. Now let's go kill Moon Knight.
>
>
>
> -Grandpa Nate
> Time Traveler from the future, where every comic book is an X-Men comic book
>
>
>
>
Get serious. Spider-man could easily beat both Wolverine and
Archangel. Those mutants are too slow and to easy to irritate for Spidey to
have any trouble. His Spider Sense would keep him out their way. I suggest you
read Secret Wars #3 and see how Spidey takes down The X-Men.
A Spider-Man Fan
Jake Sebastian Greenland
>|> >: their collective tails?
>|>
I'd imagine against any individual X-Man Spidey would have a better than
average chance depends onm external factors, however against the whole team
functioning as a well trained unit I very much doubt it. However I seem to
recall spidey forming both the outlaws (puma, rocket racer etc etc) and being
a reserve member of the avengers - how about it, spideys team vs the X-Men -
now thats a fight worth debating ...
Jake
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
j.s.gr...@eee.salford.ac.uk
ja...@ukcis.demon.co.uk
^^^^^yes its changed - don't ask ......
"I am not a Frog, I am a free Womble"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jane Griffin
The Stranger <petersod@night> wrote:
>
> Comments made about Spider-Man and Nightcrawler got me thinking; who is
>the most agile mutant? this is how I figure it:
>
>acrobat, but otherwise *no superhuman enhancements*; sticks to walls
On what do you base this? It has been stated several times (in an issue
of Excal with the Warpies, for one) that his agility is part of his
mutant power.
>Jubilee: read her first few appearances; impressive.
>
True, but I think, like most things about Jubilee, that that aspect of
her has been dropped.
>Can anyone add to or improve on this? See ya in the E-papers!
>
>dex,
>who thinks that Spidey is still faster and more agile than all of the above!
Maybe, I think it all depends on which book in which they appear. :)
Jane Griffin
Jake Sebastian Greenland
>does, however, move "a lot like Longshot" acc. to Wolvie
You're kidding, theres an issue where gambit catches a bullet - this takes
serious ability/agility/dexterity. It all depends what you define agility as
I guess. But yes, if hes similar to longshot they he may be able to
manipulate luck ???
Kevin Napolitano
:Couple things...
:
:Spider-Man has beaten Fire Lord. The only X-Man who has ever even
:come
: close to that was Phoenix.
Just goes to show you that it's the writer who determines
the winner, not the super-hero. Realistic analysis of powers
does not apply in the world of comics. :( or :) (depending on
how you look at it)
Spider-Man is the best example. He has been beaten by scrubs
and has taken out apostles of Galactus.
go figure. :)
kevin
Specter
>
>Complicated subject, but here goes:
> As I understand it, Spider-Man's reflexes are like some insects and
>arachnids: they *do not require* conscious thought to trigger in response
>to danger. Remember his first app., when he jumped out of the way of that
>car? Also, his reaction is proportionate to the danger potential of the
>threat: he'd jump faster and farther from Cyke's blasts than he would
>from a gunshot. Add this to the fact that his reflexes are (by memory)
>*fifteen times faster* than human, and there's no way that Rouge,
>Cyclops, or Nightcrawler (the latter two only have human speed and
>agility, Rouge is uncertain) can tag him, esp with spider-sense, which
>app. registers threats *before they occur*.
>dex
Point of order. Nightcrawler has much better than normal human agility.
Anyone who can wield three swords at once and use them all with great
proficiency (That one in each hand and one held by the tail for you
newcomers) has pretty damn good agility as well as some good grey matter
to coordinate it all.
>> "If Rogue got going fast enough, she'd hit him, hard, before he had a
>> chance to move more than a few inches."
Sorry, Spidey has dodged mini-missiles and gunfire before. Also, his
Spider-sense would warn him well enough in advance.
>> Spidey's fast, but he doesn't move at supersonic speeds, and neither does
>> his head. Handled with any degree of 'realism', his mind wouldn't register
>> the command to move before she got to him. And even if it did, he doesn't
>> move fast enough to dodge.
See the above arguement by The Stranger. It's not a "uh-oh, danger" reaction.
It's more like JUMP AWAY! "Now why did I do that... oh" kind of thing.
>> |> Like I said... maybe. Depends on how fast Cyke's beams move, really. If
>> he
>> |> could fire off before Spidey had a chance to move, and the beams are
>> |> faster than Spidey, dead arachnid.
>>
>> <Spidey-Sense reacts before he even visualizes the threat. Projectiles,
>> including Cyke's Beam, have never given Spidey a problem.>
>>
>> I repeat, it depends on how fast Cyke's beams move. Like with Rogue,
>> handled with any realism, the guy's *brain* would not *register* a command
>> to move in time to dodge. Doesn't matter when he senses the danger, his
>> body only moves but so fast, and if something's faster, he can't get out
>> of the way in time to save himself.
Moot point really. Spidey has dodged things that are compareably as fast
and perhaps faster than Cyke's beam. (And before y'all say it moves at the
speed of light, think again. It has _never_ been stated that Cyke's beam
is a laser.)
Specter
Keeper of the Dr. Strange and Grey Hulk flames
Mike zimbouski
: I think I've read about 1,000 Spider-Man fights (I have more Spidey comics
: than I do Rogue comics, and that's not counting limited series).
Really? So what do you think of the whole clone storyline?
Mike Z
--
"Arise and drink your bliss, for every thing that lives is holy!"--Blake
"I don't care if your sister did put an ice cube down your shirt. Girls will do
that. You mustn't hit her with the dog."--Blake
All these opinions never promised you a rose garden.
Harvey T Griffin
>In article <3isgda$7...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, nyxn...@aol.com (Nyx Ntshad) writes:
>
>|>
>|> <Aww come on...she couldn't beat Titania.....the same super-powered,
>|> 100ton lifting, indestructible villain that SPider-Man beat. Just because
>|> he can't punch her doesn't mean he can't hurt her. Rogue still has to
>|> touch him, just once...and that's iffy.>
>|>
>|> It's also iffy that he'd catch her, just once, in the web. But Spidey
>|> doesn't move at supersonic speeds. If Rogue got going fast enough, she'd
>|> hit him, hard, before he had a chance to move more than a few inches.
>
>Every heard of Spider-Sense?
>She ain't hitting nothing except the wall of a building as he jumps over her.
She has half a brain (when well away from Gambit), all she has to
do is level the builting he happens to be on or let her tag him with a
webline and head for orbit :)
>
>|>
>|> : > ICE-MAN, that neat lil' freezing thing he did to Legion in X-Men 41
>|> : > STORM, she's got, like, cosmic powers
>|>
>|> : <These are iffy.>
>|>
>|> <He's beat Ice Man before.>
>|>
>|> So what? Iceman just went through a major power uppance.
>
>Yes, but is still pretty weak. That Legion thing won't work on Spider-Man.
>he won't just sit still like Legion and let him freeze his body.
No, he will be too busy dying of hypothermia within the enormous
monolith of ice that Bobby would create over an area too large for the
webhead to escape.
>
>|> <And as for Storm, her power is useless in enclosed spaces, where
>|> SPider-Man would have a much better chance ofbeating her..>
>|>
>|> With Storm, I suppose it'd depend on *where* they fought.
>
>she still would only be able to use wind and lightning bolts.
>That is almost no challenge to spidey.
Let us see how well he fights in the midst of constantly changing
tornato force (400+mph) winds. Stormy would have him for lunch.
>
>|>
>|> Like I said... maybe. Depends on how fast Cyke's beams move, really. If he
>|> could fire off before Spidey had a chance to move, and the beams are
>|> faster than Spidey, dead arachnid.
>
>
>You don't understand.
>Spidey-Sense reacts before he even visualizes the threat.
>Projectiles, including Cyke's Beam, have never given Spidey a problem.
>
I aggree completely with you there (but pounding the tar out of
Scott might annoy Jean, whereupon. . . . )
HTG
Mr. Curto
: In article <3ivkta$8...@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu>, spau...@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Randall S Spaulding) writes:
: >In article <3ijhmj$2...@ccshst05.cs.uoguelph.ca> jk...@uoguelph.ca (John
: Yes, but the Webslinger was not at his best either mentally or physically.
: This battle happenned right after Spidey found Ned Leeds murdered, and
: Spidey was kinda zoned out by it.
: The problem is, even if Spidey was at his best, Wolvie would still probably
: make mince meat out of him.
Wolverine with adamantium would kill Spidey,...without...Spidey
could just break them all off!....
Of course, Wolverine will always be able to beat Gambit...
Jason Adam Johnson
take on almost any of the X-folk one on one. However, some
claim that he has also gotten smoked by Vulture, Green Goblin
etc. Hmmmmmm....
So far as I can tell, spiderman hasn't been given a rough time
by any of those guys in awhile, and to be honest his ability is
augmented or limited by the writer. My best example is Venom.
Spiderman has been able to LIVE fighting this guy for who knows
how many times, Carnage as well. These two would mangle quite a
few X-men, so if Spidey can take them out, then he's obviously
very tough.
Only the TK's and storm or a super-powered Iceman could really
mess him up. Wolverine, nah! Check out Spiderman Wolverine, the
first one, the classic 1980's Charlie story. Wolverine was
pretty irritated, spiderman was fighting for silly ideology in
a situation he didn't understand. And that ended in a draw! If
it were a fight for the lives of say Jean grey for WOlverine,
and Aunt may and MJ for spiderman Wolverine would be toast. I'm
not saying Parker would leave unscathed, but the healing factor
means nothing if your metal bones are bent so bad that they
destroy the muscles that surround them.
The new nightcrawler might beat him. Or at least make it close.
Since NC has the ability to grab one body part and dissapear
with it he could take spidey's head and leave. Assuming he
could get a hand on him. This varys with writer, but to my best
memory (ala hobgoblin stories of the late 200's) the
spidersense can warn peter, but he can also just relax and let his
body react as the spidersense directs.
My fifty three cents...
Swoop 5-
Finbar
: In article <Pine.HPP.3.91.95022...@river.it.gvsu.edu>,
What about Beast????.....i seem to recal him being fairly agile???
or even Gambit, Shatterstar and Adam X are pretty quick
Taz Devil
Bunny(TM)) writes:
>
>Spider-Man has beaten Fire Lord. The only X-Man who has ever even come
>close to that was Phoenix.
>
Correctamundo!
Spider-Man took out an ex-herald of Galactus...Spidey could take
out Rogue...Storm...
he's taken out Quicksilver before...taken on Nightcrawler...
and if written correctly...Karma, Psylocke, Jean...would get a
mind-shock from his spider-sense...which only Prof. X could
handle long enough to do something about.
Spidey could and *HAS* mopped up the floor with the X-Men.
--Taz
Finbar
: In article <1995Feb23.203332.116509@daniel>, rcoa...@daniel.drew.edu writes:
: >
: > Question: Can Spider-Man take on the X-Men all by himself and kick
: >their collective tails? True, since there are so many X-Men, it's
: >just a matter of out-numbering him. But, I think Spidey could still
: >take on a smaller group of X-Men. He's fought and defeated the
: >original X-Men on a number of occasions, and kicked the "new" X-Men
: >around in the original Secret Wars. So, who could defeat Spidey and
: >who would get clobbered by him. Any theories?
: This will be done in a boxing format.
: Gambit - easily beaten by the Webster. Gambit goes down in the 3rd round.
: Beast - slightly longer fight, but he too would lose. Spidey by KO in the 4th
: round.
: Iceman - tough fight for Spidey, but he's done it before. 5th round knockout.
: Cyclops - No way could Spidey win this one. Spidey goes down in the 3rd.
: Wolverine - close match... Wolvie would pull his punches cause he respects
: Spidey, but in the end, Wolvie would knock him out. Spidey gets KO'd in the
: 8th round.
: Jubilee - Now _this_ would be a fun fight to watch. Spidey wins cause he's
: got more experience, but it takes him to the 6th round to do it.
: Psylocke - She'd win. It's hard to beat a Telepath/Ninja. Spidey bites it
: in the 1st round.
: Angel - The wing blade would give him a slight advantage, but Spidey would
: beat him. Spidey wins in the 5th round.
: Rogue - Spidey goes down in the first round.
: Storm - if it stayed hand-to-hand, Spidey would have a chance, but Storm
: cane easily turn the battle to his side. 2nd round win.
: There's my picks.
: > Bobby, Keeper of the Scrapper Flame
: >
: Specter
: ---
When you get down to it, Jean Grey and Psylocke would have a hard
time against Spidey, i mean it requires concentration to use
psionic powers and if they become distracted they would have to use
hand to hand fighting skills and they would be no match!!!
Beast- Hmmmmm....spidey but it would take a while and be bloody
good to watch, this one would have to be in the danger room so
as to obtain maximum accrobatics for minimum damage!
Gambit- He lasts about 5 seconds.....no match
Storm- Only if Spidey could get some webbing into her eyes
quickly...otherwise it is just a matter of blowing him clear and
dropping the room or area temp to a point where Spidey can no longer
move without effort or slipping on some ice.
Iceman-Spidey looses....he beat Bobby when he was still a snowman
and not an Iceman.....ever hit ice???...it hurts....add some spiked
webs of ice and spidey is trapped and frozen.
Wolverine- Adamantium or no....he simply cannot react fast enough.
the claws are webbed to the arms and he looses....spidey in 1 min.
Rouge- In the open, rouge wins....she racks off and nails the Spider
at mach2.....spider sense or not, he would not move fast enough,
indoors.....spiderman
Cyclops- Dicey, he can move pretty fast can cyc, but the spider sense
keeps the spider from being fried.....a draw..spidey cant get close
enough and cyc can't hit him!
any more ideas???
Finbar
Demetrius Leutrel Dicks
all the guys on my hall know that when I am drunk I have a tendency to
"summon the elements." I get up every morning to watch the cartoon
hoping that she will have a significant role. As of late on the cartoon,
Storm has been portrayed has a hard woman to get the upper hand with. I
do agree that they need to expand the scope of her elemental potentialin
the comics though. At full power she could be a formidable force to be
reckoned with, except by the psis.
--Demetrius
Amol Keshav Malshe
Hey dude, in response to spidey and Rogue. Remember spidey
stunned the hulk. Now if you could stun the hulk I'm sure that he could takeout
Rogue. Hell Spidey took out firelord ( albeit with the alien costume) but he
still could takeout Rogue.
--
Amol Keshav Malshe
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt7081b
Internet: gt7...@prism.gatech.edu
Specter
>In article <3il9me$b...@news.acns.nwu.edu>, jsg...@lulu.acns.nwu.edu (James S Galinski) writes:
>> In article <3ijhmj$2...@ccshst05.cs.uoguelph.ca>,
>> John William King <jk...@uoguelph.ca> wrote:
>>>rcoa...@daniel.drew.edu wrote:
>>>
>>>: Question: Can Spider-Man take on the X-Men all by himself and kick
>>>: their collective tails?
>>
>>>You've got to be kidding. Any two X-Men (barring Jubilee, I'm willing to
>>>get flamed for it, but I don't count her) can take Spidey. For those of
>>>you who are offended by this, remember I said ANY two, and since spidey
>>>has several of his own books, he gets special treatment.
>>
>> How about: Which two X-Men would kill Spidey in the shortest amount of time.
>> Personally, I'd like to see an Archangel and Wolverine vs. Spiderman book.
>> That would last maybe three panels. It would go like this...
>>
>> Wolverine: That's it, bub. Now you're in trouble.
>>
>> -SNIKT-
>>
>> Spidey: Oh crap!
>>
>> Archangel: Logan, don't bother. I'll just skewer him with my living wings.
>>
>> -SOUND OF PETER PARKER BEING IMPALED BY LIVING METAL WINGS-
>>
>> Wolverine: Thanks Warren. Now let's go kill Moon Knight.
He's already dead.
>>
>>
>> -Grandpa Nate
>> Time Traveler from the future, where every comic book is an X-Men comic book
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Get serious. Spider-man could easily beat both Wolverine and
>Archangel. Those mutants are too slow and to easy to irritate for Spidey to
>have any trouble. His Spider Sense would keep him out their way. I suggest you
>read Secret Wars #3 and see how Spidey takes down The X-Men.
Exactly... this has already been brought up by others. Now, Spidey, vs.
Holocaust or Pokky would be _real_ short. (Neither cares about innocents
or property damage, you see...)
> A Spider-Man Fan
>
Specter
Mike zimbouski
: Joe
: -----
: The FAQ list is, oddly enough, in the official xbooks FAQ, which will no doubt
: be posted by drh when he finds himself with a few moments to take in oxygen.
: Mike Zimbouski
I'M IN A .SIG! I'M IN A .SIG! THANK GOD FOR THE CAPS LOCK KEY! TOP OF THE
WORLD, MA!
Mike Z
*ah-hunh!* *ah-hunh!* *ah-hunh!*
Christopher Bird
> I'm tired, so I'll join in on this.
> Storm: sorry, she'd whup his butt. Spidey-sense would do jack-squat
> against a 100-ft. radius whirlwind if she encased him in it. For
> starters. Or lower the temperature to make walls frictionless. Or
> protect herself from him and webbing with a tempest. And if she were
> *serious* about squishing him, inundate all of Manhatten with a few
> typhoons, uproot the city with tornadoes, and bombard everything with
> lightning bolts until the city's rubble. She wouldn't even have to face him.
> Sure, this is a casual disregard for human life, but I assume we're
> talking all out here :).
1.) The wind thing would take a while. To quote David Eddings, "Do you
know how much all that air WEIGHS?" She'd be pushing it to the
max-easy prey for Spidey, she'd be distracted.
> Cyclops: 50/50. Who says he has to shoot first? Sure, all Spidey needs
> is one punch, but those optic-blasts can shatter bones, too. What if he
> just reacts to everything Spidey does? Stand-off.
Spidey reacts to EVERYTHING AHEAD OF TIME AND IS FASTER AND MORE
AGILE! Cyclops would have gotten hit five, six times before he knew
what happened.
> Rogue & Colossus: Well, Spider-Man could never defeat them. Slow them
> down, yes. They *are* invulnerable. If they were *serious* about
> getting him, they would, sooner or later.
Colossus maybe. But Rogue? Spidey webs her up, then webs her to the
bottom of a pool. Can she hold her breath for the hour it would take
for the webbing to dissolve? (I dunno if Colossus needs to breathe.)
> Beast: even match, if Spider-Man didn't have that thar webbing.
But, he does.
> Cable: Cable. Face it, forever in the xbooks, Cable vs. [whoever], Cable
> will win because he is kewl. :)
Yes, but if this battle took place in a neutral setting (say, Captain
America or something else that needs sales) Cable would be one
splattered gunman.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
* CAMPUS CRUSADE FOR CTHULHU!! *
* Vote for the evil god with charisma! *
* Remember: VOTE CTHULHU! DON'T SETTLE FOR THE LESSER EVIL! *
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
John William King
: absorbant properties of vibranium (or bounty), the force transmitted
: through the metal skull would make jam of Logan's brains, to say nothing
: of a bloody pulp of his face.
: dex
John William King
: >"If Rogue got going fast enough, she'd hit him, hard, before he had a
: >chance to move more than a few inches."
: >Spidey's fast, but he doesn't move at supersonic speeds, and neither does
: >his head. Handled with any degree of 'realism', his mind wouldn't register
: >the command to move before she got to him. And even if it did, he doesn't
: >move fast enough to dodge.
: I think I would have to disagree with you there. I do believe Spidey has
: "spider reflexes" too. Wouldn't this compensate?
Petey can't be hit EVER? I was sure that he had been hit by someone
other than Venom, I must've been wrong.
Storm
: >Actually, no she *wouldn't* be able to use just wind and lightning. Freeze
: >the air to subzero temp, whip the wind *everywhere* in the nearby area.
: >Spidey can't get away, and he can't survive sub-zero forever.
: Waitaminute...In the time Storm does all this, Spidey could rush her and
: pop her on the chin. I have no idea how long all the weather stuff
: takes, but it can't be that quick.
NOTE: Storm can fly out of Spidey's range while she does this, remember
flight?
Scott Yukuto Amano
has that no X-Man, except for Wolverine, a very strong "fighting
spirit". Spidey can have the crap kicked out of him and he will still
come back for more. He never gives up! unless he's KO'd.
That, my friends, is why Spidey kicks butt.
That is all IMHO.
From,
Your friendly neighborhood Scotty-Dogg
Joe Helfrich
>It's perhaps worth mentioning that the original 5 X-Men did fight Spidey,
>at least twice...the issue I'm thinking of, Spidey was sick, dying, and
>*still* kicked their butts...Cyclops says something along the lines of
>"If only I could hit him...but it's as though he knows where and when I'm
>going to shoot!" In the end, it was Jean who brought him down, but *not*
>with telepathy. The other time was with the original X-Factor and went
>much the same...
Actually, there's a very simple way to tell who would win.
If it says "Spiderman" somewhere in the title, The X-Men are mincemeat.
If it says "X-Men" in the title, Spidey will put up a good fight, but get
beaten eventually.
Specter
>Marlon Shows writes:
>
>>Every heard of Spider-Sense?
>>She ain't hitting nothing except the wall of a building as he jumps over her.
>
>has, spider-sense notwithstanding, been beaned by the Rhino, Sandman,
>Doctor Octopus, Mysterio, Spot, Electro, and so much, much more that
>his face is basically a map of famous knuckles of the Marvel Universe.
>His spider-sense helps him, but he's famous for not always following it,
>and even then, if the person is close in speed to him, he still gets tagged.
>Considering that Rogue is far faster than most of the folks named above,
>it would be a pretty close fight, but she could tag him.
Doc Ock: Half the time when he and Spidey fought, it would be in crowded
buildings with lots of stuff around. And you expect him to be able to dodge
all four arms at once? (Note: Doc Ock mentally controlled the arms, so they
could move pretty fast.)
Mysterio: Master of illusions (Ok... non-mutant master of illusions.) The
first few times they fought Spidey would keep dodging the illusions. Also,
some of the illusions hide real threats and would set off the famed Spider
sense.
Spot: Who the hell is this? The Munsters' dog (dragon)??
Electro: Well, lessee... I can never recall Spidey having too much trouble
with Electro. I mean, considering the webbing is non-conductive....
>>|> With Storm, I suppose it'd depend on *where* they fought.
>>
>>she still would only be able to use wind and lightning bolts.
>>That is almost no challenge to spidey.
>
>Nonsense! Well, I'm speaking in fond rememberance of the old, wind-swept
>Spidey (I grew up reading the Lee/Romita issues... now _that_ was a comic!).
>Spider-Man used to have to be concerned with slick walls on modern
>buildings. Of course, he used to have an understandable social life without
>clones, but such is the price of progress. Spider-Man really couldn't take
>out Storm if she was thinking. Hurricane-force winds can still slam him
>against a wall pretty hard, and while her lightning is no worse than
>Electro, surrounding him with Arctic cold may just bring on one of those
>famous Parker colds that he seems to get stuck with every twenty issues or
>so. Basically, since Storm could just hover far out of webbing reach and
>pummel him with a hurricane until he gave up, there's not much Spider-Man
>could do to stop her.
True. This is my point. But these weather changes are _not_ instantaneous.
But unless Storm was being especially stupid, Spidey would have no idea
what was going on until it was too late. (I.e. Storm doesn't announce herself)
>>You don't understand.
>>Spidey-Sense reacts before he even visualizes the threat.
>>Projectiles, including Cyke's Beam, have never given Spidey a problem.
>
>This explains why he's gotten trashed by Electro, Blizzard, and others
>in the past, right?
Blizzard? Oh yeah... that dweeb. Doc Ock, yes. The Vulture, yes. The Blizzard?
Sheesh, gimme a break. That one's a _real_ punk.
Marlon Shows
Well, since there is debate whether Spidey could take the X-men, I know
the knew Octo-Spidey would kill them all at the same time!
GO OCTO-SPIDEY!!!!
--
**********************************************************************************
____
________/ UP \___
|____ _____ ___|
\/ |__/
88b d88 _____ Marlon D. Shows
888b d888 / \ Mass. Institute of Technology
88`8b d8'88 /|| | 472 Memorial Drive
88 `8b d8' 88 |\/ / Rm 514
88 `8b d8' 88 | | /\ Cambridge, MA 02139
88 `8b d8' 88 | UM \| | (617) 225-7494
88 `888' 88 | *| <-DETROIT
88 `8' 88 /_____________\ (representin')
(A Ray English creation, with my editing)
********************************************************************************
Specter
Didn't that happen once? I don't think Spidey broke his hand, but he spent
a panel hopping around saying "Ow". All Wolvie did was stand up, grin and
start smoking...
Specter
>: If it were a fight for the lives of say Jean grey for WOlverine,
>: and Aunt may and MJ for spiderman Wolverine would be toast. I'm
>: not saying Parker would leave unscathed, but the healing factor
>: means nothing if your metal bones are bent so bad that they
>: destroy the muscles that surround them.
>
Hmm.. I wonder.. Adamantium is considered the strongest metal in the
universe. But is that just material strength? How well does it bend?
What are it's material properties? (Yes, I'm an ME major...)
Consider that it probably has a high Tensile and Torsional strength.
I.e. it's hard to bend or twist it... How then was it molded and
put onto Wolverine's bones. I really can't see then forging or die
molding it....
Vorpal Bunny(TM)
if Venom, Carnage or anyone else immune to Spider-Man's spider sense
THROWS an object at SPider-Man, his spider sense WILL go off. It has
happened before, most notably in Carnage's first appearance, when he
threw a furnace at Spider-Man, and his spider sense allowed him to
duck out of the way (sort of).
Second, if Jubilee wants to attack Spider-Man in the middle of traffic,
she's the one who would have to worry about getting creamed, not having
a reflex that'll allow her to jump over cars that are heading towards
her.
--
\\ \\ /\ Daily Orange Staff Writer SP "Quip _IS_ /\
\\-\\ \/ SyraCWIS Project Document Maintainer O a valid \/
( X-X) /\ AND Keeper of the Forbush Man Flame O word in /\
{_^_} \/ >>--> http://web.syr.edu/~holee/ N! newswriting!" \/
Joe Helfrich
> j...@eden.rutgers.edu (Joe Helfrich) writes:
>>Yeah, but all Spidey needs is one quick uppercut and Jamie goes out like a
>>light, and his dupes go poof.
>Don't work like that - it's Jamie, not Flashback. He grows new Jamies
>when he's struck. - and they're capable of functioning without Jamie
>Prime.
Ummm...remember the Early Peter David issues, where the Jamie from Fallen
Angels came back, trying to replace Jamie? And remember how the two got into
this really big fight, so you had a few hundred Jamies fighting it out on
the Washington Mall, and in the Smithsonian? They finally found the originals,
zapped em, and all the dupes dissapeared.
Joe
I don't care if it's a retcon, Peter David wrote it. :)
Kevin Napolitano
:Then lets take a look at a fight between them on neutral ground, oh,
:say,
:Secret Wars #3 (I think it was); hmmm, looks pretty conclusive to
:me,
:Jean and Psylocke weren't there, but Charlie (a much stronger psi
:than
:either of them) was, and he didn't help any, nor did Storm. I dont
:know
:who was more humiliated, Rouge or Wolvie...
From what I remember from such a long time ago.....
It wasn't a fight. Spider-Man was just trying to get
away, much easier than taking out Colossus or Rogue.
And didn't Prof. X wipe Peter's memory clean? Didn't
look like a victory to me.....
kevin
Joe Helfrich
>Iceman-Spidey looses....he beat Bobby when he was still a snowman
>and not an Iceman.....ever hit ice???...it hurts....add some spiked
>webs of ice and spidey is trapped and frozen.
Ever hit solid steel? It huts more. Spidey does it all the time, and tends
to put his fist through it. And with the recent power upping of Bobby seeming
to indicate that his body turns completely to ice when he powers up....gee,
I guess we'd get to really se how good Bobby is at pulling his life back
together.
Joe
Vorpal Bunny(TM)
: Joe Helfrich (j...@eden.rutgers.edu) wrote:
: : Joe
: : -----
: : The FAQ list is, oddly enough, in the official xbooks FAQ, which will no doubt
: : be posted by drh when he finds himself with a few moments to take in oxygen.
: : Mike Zimbouski
: I'M IN A .SIG! I'M IN A .SIG! THANK GOD FOR THE CAPS LOCK KEY! TOP OF THE
: WORLD, MA!
Geez...some people are just so easily pleased. If that's all it'll take
Mike, I'll put you in my .sig if it'll keep you quiet.
--
\\ \\ /\ Daily Orange Staff Writer SP "Quip _IS_ /\
\\-\\ \/ SyraCWIS Project Document Maintainer O a valid \/
( X-X) /\ AND Keeper of the Forbush Man Flame O word in /\
{_^_} \/ >>--> http://web.syr.edu/~holee/ N! newswriting!" \/
[PLACE MIKE Z HERE]
Marlon Shows
|> The Stranger writes:
|>
|> >Complicated subject, but here goes:
|> > As I understand it, Spider-Man's reflexes are like some insects and
|> >arachnids: they *do not require* conscious thought to trigger in response
|> >to danger. Remember his first app., when he jumped out of the way of that
|> >car?
|>
|> Yes; he was wondering what that strange buzzing in his head was, and in
|> response to that he jumped. As has been shown plenty of times in the comics,
|> Spidey needs to consciously think about responding to his Spider-Sense or
|> else he gets creamed. He has gotten better at learning to listen to it,
|> but it still requires his brain to take conscious action.
|>
|> "You know, close up, your costume's darn garish."
|> --Richard Darwin to Spider-Man
I don't know what Spider-Man you been reading.
The only way he gets hit if he ignores his Spidey Sense.
He wouldn't do this in battle, so your point is mute.
Spider-Man is a lot more powerful than he was back in your day.
grow on ya.
Marlon Shows
Broken hand versus irreversible brain damage and an ugly mug.
I'll take the Broken hand for a hundred.
Marlon Shows
|> : > She has half a brain (when well away from Gambit), all she has to
|> : >do is level the builting he happens to be on or let her tag him with a
|> : >webline and head for orbit :)
|>
|> : And Spidey, being completely brainless, wouldn't think to let go? He can
|> : cut the webbing anytime he wants to.
|>
|> How soon? From history this isn't the type of thing that triggers his
|> spidey sense. In an open area he could have quite a fall
|>
|> : > No, he will be too busy dying of hypothermia within the enormous
|> : >monolith of ice that Bobby would create over an area too large for the
|> : >webhead to escape.
|> : Two words: Thermal costume. New York winters can be a real bitch. And if
|> : you think Spidey is going out in those wearing just spandex, yer nuts.
|> : Besides, he dodges fast enough. Iceman and Spidey have mixed it up before.
|> Yes but if Bobby's serious Spidey can't dodge the area Iceman can
|> effect. We're talking city block or so
When has Iceman ever frozen an entire city block?
Do you realize how much energy that would take?
And his spider-sence would still tell him.
LEVINE. MATTHEW B
>>In article <Pine.HPP.3.91.950228002...@river.it.gvsu.
edu>, The Stranger <petersod@night> writes:>>
>>> "If Rogue got going fast enough, she'd hit him, hard, before he had a
>>> chance to move more than a few inches."
>Sorry, Spidey has dodged mini-missiles and gunfire before. Also, his
>Spider-sense would warn him well enough in advance.
---Cyke argument deleted---
>Moot point really. Spidey has dodged things that are compareably as fast
>and perhaps faster than Cyke's beam. (And before y'all say it moves at the
>speed of light, think again. It has _never_ been stated that Cyke's beam
>is a laser.)
Ah! Point of order, my friends! Note that in some past issues of Spidey, (
which title and which number I'm not entirely sure, but...) the famous
"Spider Sense" has NOT worked on certain objects! For example, one issue
way back when Venom, hooked up with Eddie Brock (for you old-timers), threw
an entire car (a taxi, if memory serves) at Spidey and, because it was an
inanimate object, i.e. non-thinking, he couldn't sense it before it almost
creamed him! "Spider Sense" is not, as we've seen many things are not in
the Marvelverse, ABSOLUTE!! Hence, I offer the argument that any way you
slice it, there's no 100% sure way to determine who'd win a fight between
Spidey and a given X-Man!! Even Jubilee might get lucky and say, blind
Petey. He stumbles, unseeing, into rapid traffic on Madison Ave.! Spider
Sense warns him of an on-coming car, he leaps to what can only be guessed is
safety... only to get splattered by a Mack truck!! Jubilee wins! Absurd
as it sounds, the creed of the Marvelverse (besides Graydon and Sabretooth,
but then that's just a bad pun...) is NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE!!
--SUMOTOAD
>Specter
>Keeper of the Dr. Strange and Grey Hulk flames
I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay!
foolish events ever, from an X point of view. Namely, the fourth issue of
the Secret Wars, but in the Secret Wars, the writer (who has slipped my
mind at present) evidently had a mad on for the X-Men and had anyone and
everyone whup their butts, including the wondrous Wasp. He also made them
into second raters eager to prove themselves to the real heroes. This is
evdenced by their REQUEST to be ALLOWED to fight Galactus, and Cyclops
and Colossus restraining Wolverine while he debated Captain America,
while Thor and(I belive) Hawkeye simply stood by Cap and radiated "We're
better than you" rays. This defeat, for the portrayal of the X-Men
throughout the Secret Wars, should be considered invalid. If More
examples of the erreneous portrayal of the merry mutants in this series
are desired, ask. I'm chock full of them.
Secondly, I've read the issues of Spider-Man where he defeated
Firelord, and Spidey's victory was established in the dumbest way
possible. The classic Silver Surfer cop out, demonstrated here:
Enemy: Yes! I am victorious! He lies defeated before me!
Surfer: Wait!
Enemy: What?
Surfer: Ijust remembered, I'm more powerful than you!
Enemy: Arrghhh...
Pretty dumb, isn't it. That's the way Spidey beat the Firelord. Two
issues of being smacked around, and then, tada! one page and he wins.
Dumb. Discounted.
And I refuse to go into the multitude of times Wolverine alone
has pulled his two claw try for three trick on Spidey.
Any responses, supports, evidence missed, or arguments welcome.
Gary E. Poisson
SHIO LING HWEE
: >Gambit: faster than just about anyone, but *does not* have super agility;
: >does, however, move "a lot like Longshot" acc. to Wolvie
: You're kidding, theres an issue where gambit catches a bullet - this takes
: serious ability/agility/dexterity. It all depends what you define agility as
: I guess. But yes, if hes similar to longshot they he may be able to
: manipulate luck ???
Ohh nooo!
Does that mean that Gambit is actually, .... GASP, the son of
Longshot and Dazzler, displaced in time???
Wonder when the X-writers will write "the adventures of Longshot and
Dazzler"?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Sam the Bard
Eng2...@nus.sg
Tony J. Abell
In reply to the collective posts of Iceman not being able to beat Spider-Man. You are wrong.
The old Iceman (pre Emma Frost mind possession) could not take Spidey on, however the "new and improved" Iceman could give Spidey a good fight and could win!
First instantly freeze all surfaces in the area, now Spidey can't stick to anything. Next freeze the water molecules in the air, thus lowering the Temperature in the area, and causing it to snow (elements that Iceman is well versed in working with). BTW to answer the thermal costume, I don't think Spidey could with stand below freezing temps.
Since it is now below freezing temp, Spidey is much slower. And now Iceman can freeze the water molecules in Spidey's body.
And yes I realize that Spidey won't stand still for this, and yes he will fight. But if Iceman shoots ice shards at Spidey while doing this he could concievably keep Spidey occupied long enough to lower the temp to below freezing.
Just a side note: We have seen what Spidey's potential is (which is very incredible), but we have not seen the potential of the "new" Iceman.
Also in this whole Spidey v. X-Men thread, I have only seen one mention of the Prof. I'm just guessing that no one has mentioned him because he could take out Spidey with so much ease.
Talk To Ya,
Tony Abell
abe...@phssmpc2.csg.mot.com
________________________________________________________________________________
"His thoughts arrive like butterflies, He don't know, so he chases them away."
Pearl Jam- Evenflow
________________________________________________________________________________
I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay!
> : >the most agile mutant? this is how I figure it:
> : >Nightcrawler: flexible spine, prehensile tail, training of circus
> : >acrobat, but otherwise *no superhuman enhancements*; sticks to walls
> : On what do you base this? It has been stated several times (in an issue
> : of Excal with the Warpies, for one) that his agility is part of his
> : mutant power.
You're wrong about the Nightcrawler super agility. The issue of Excalibur
you refer to states that it's NOT part of his mutant powers, just lots of
hard work. Just to clear you up.
Gary E. Poisson
Noel Honore
: quickly...otherwise it is just a matter of blowing him clear and
: dropping the room or area temp to a point where Spidey can no longer
: move without effort or slipping on some ice.
I disagree with you on this one, cause Strom doesn't need to see to sense
weather patterns. Her control over the weather is so good that if she
created a wind she could sense where Spidey is in the currents. I think
she would win no matter what.
-Homer (who would like to be the keeper of the Storm flame, but isn't
here enough)
The Stranger
On 2 Mar 1995, Joe Helfrich wrote:
> Actually, there's a very simple way to tell who would win.
>
> If it says "Spiderman" somewhere in the title, The X-Men are mincemeat.
>
> If it says "X-Men" in the title, Spidey will put up a good fight, but get
> beaten eventually.
Then lets take a look at a fight between them on neutral ground, oh, say,
Secret Wars #3 (I think it was); hmmm, looks pretty conclusive to me,
Jean and Psylocke weren't there, but Charlie (a much stronger psi than
either of them) was, and he didn't help any, nor did Storm. I dont know
who was more humiliated, Rouge or Wolvie...
dex,
Worm Warrior, Master of the Sands, and Spice warden--damn, wrong NG...
John William King
: If it says "Spiderman" somewhere in the title, The X-Men are mincemeat.
: If it says "X-Men" in the title, Spidey will put up a good fight, but get
: beaten eventually.
That pretty much does sum it up, doesn't it.
John William King
John William King
: and Aunt may and MJ for spiderman Wolverine would be toast. I'm
: not saying Parker would leave unscathed, but the healing factor
: means nothing if your metal bones are bent so bad that they
: destroy the muscles that surround them.
Spidey can't bend adamantium. Not even close!
: The new nightcrawler might beat him. Or at least make it close.
: Since NC has the ability to grab one body part and dissapear
: with it he could take spidey's head and leave. Assuming he
: could get a hand on him. This varys with writer, but to my best
: memory (ala hobgoblin stories of the late 200's) the
: spidersense can warn peter, but he can also just relax and let his
: body react as the spidersense directs.
T-Rex!
>The old Iceman (pre Emma Frost mind possession) could not take Spidey on, however the "new and improved" Iceman could give Spidey a good fight and could win!
>Just a side note: We have seen what Spidey's potential is (which is very incredible), but we have not seen the potential of the "new" Iceman.
[rest of post munched, giving poor 'Rex indigestion because of the awful
line-wrapping... posts are much tastier when kept to <80 characters/line!]
One point to bring up: the "new" Iceman has been able to actually freeze
the water molecules in his opponent's body.
Spider-Man-on-a-stick.
Eric / 'Rex
Rex's profound thought for the day:
The cost of living hasn't affected its popularity.
gt2...@prism.gatech.edu / ec...@prism.gatech.edu
| T-Rex / Eric E. Chastain | / <0> \___ |"T. rex doesn't want to be|
|"Quiet, all of you... |/ __ ,\ | fed, he wants to hunt-- |
| they're approaching | \ \_________| | you can't supress 65 mil.|
| the tyrannosaur paddock!"| /\ ^^^^^^^/ | years of gut instinct!" |
Marlon Shows
It had nothing to do with an immovable object.
Everyone knows spidey sense don't work on Venom.
I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay!
> |> which title and which number I'm not entirely sure, but...) the famous
> |> "Spider Sense" has NOT worked on certain objects! For example, one issue
> |> way back when Venom, hooked up with Eddie Brock (for you old-timers), threw
> |> an entire car (a taxi, if memory serves) at Spidey and, because it was an
> |> inanimate object, i.e. non-thinking, he couldn't sense it before it almost
> |> creamed him! "Spider Sense" is not, as we've seen many things are not in
> |> the Marvelverse, ABSOLUTE!! Hence, I offer the argument that any way you
> |> slice it, there's no 100% sure way to determine who'd win a fight between
> |> Spidey and a given X-Man!! Even Jubilee might get lucky and say, blind
> |> Petey. He stumbles, unseeing, into rapid traffic on Madison Ave.! Spider
> |> Sense warns him of an on-coming car, he leaps to what can only be guessed is
> |> safety... only to get splattered by a Mack truck!! Jubilee wins! Absurd
> |> as it sounds, the creed of the Marvelverse (besides Graydon and Sabretooth,
> |> but then that's just a bad pun...) is NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE!!
>
>
> It had nothing to do with an immovable object.
> Everyone knows spidey sense don't work on Venom.
I thought that was fairly obvious. The inanimate object was NOT the
reason why he didn't notice it, it was Venom. I mean, he wouldn't get far
not being able to dodge inanimate objects (i.e. bullets). Spider-Man's
spider sense is 100% with everyone except the symbiotes. Jubilee would
not, in any way, be able to blind, or blindside, him (unless he was
currently occupied fighting the other X-Men). Even if he was blind, he
wouldn't have jumped in front of the Mack truck, the spider sense would
have warned him not to.
David R. Henry
On Rogue:
>> She has half a brain (when well away from Gambit), all she has to
>>do is level the builting he happens to be on or let her tag him with a
>>webline and head for orbit :)
>
>And Spidey, being completely brainless, wouldn't think to let go? He can
>cut the webbing anytime he wants to.
The main problem with Spider-Man vs. Rogue is that he can't hurt her,
and she'd have a hard time hitting him. He may very well tie her up,
but that wouldn't really end the matter.
>Two words: Thermal costume. New York winters can be a real bitch. And if
>you think Spidey is going out in those wearing just spandex, yer nuts.
>Besides, he dodges fast enough. Iceman and Spidey have mixed it up before.
Thermal underwear only goes so far. I live in North Dakota; trust me
on this.
>One: It takes a while for Storm to pull that off. Contrary to the cartoon,
>the weather changes are _not_ instantaneous. Now a small lightning bolt or
>two for Spidey to dodge while the weather slowly gets worse is a much better
>scenario. But unless Storm is being mind-controlled, she won't be doing
>any hurricanes in downtown NYC.
The whole point of this is if the characters could take each other out,
not if they would normally do so. If Storm wanted to flatten someone,
she'd summon a hurricane and get it over with. It wouldn't take her
longer than a minute or two, and if she stayed overhead out of web
range while doing so, there's nothing Spider-Man could do except fall
over.
--
David R. Henry - Rogue Fan Club // Cthulhu! Cthulhu! Cthulhu! And Cthooky!
"All you of Earth are IDIOTS!"-P9fOS / What was the question? -- Kate Bush
dhe...@plains.nodak.edu * Evolution: Give it some time, it'll grow on ya.
David R. Henry
>> Actually, no she *wouldn't* be able to use just wind and lightning. Freeze
>> the air to subzero temp, whip the wind *everywhere* in the nearby area.
>> Spidey can't get away, and he can't survive sub-zero forever.
>
>So? He makes his webbing really viscuous, and splatters Storm. Quick
>and simple.
Which won't help much if Storm is being smart: staying about half a mile
up and slamming him with hurricane force winds. Storm is really far
more useful than the X-writers make her, and Spider-Man would have
no hope against her if she chose the battletime. (If he came up
on her on the street and coldcocked her, sure, but that's not the
point of this).
David R. Henry
>>Actually, no she *wouldn't* be able to use just wind and lightning. Freeze
>>the air to subzero temp, whip the wind *everywhere* in the nearby area.
>>Spidey can't get away, and he can't survive sub-zero forever.
>
>Waitaminute...In the time Storm does all this, Spidey could rush her and
>pop her on the chin. I have no idea how long all the weather stuff
>takes, but it can't be that quick.
And if she's hovering a mile above the skyline while she summons the
weather, there's not much Spider-Man could do about it (short of
flinging over to Johnny Storm and asking to borrow the FantastiCar).
David R. Henry
>|> >Complicated subject, but here goes:
>|> > As I understand it, Spider-Man's reflexes are like some insects and
>|> >arachnids: they *do not require* conscious thought to trigger in response
>|> >to danger. Remember his first app., when he jumped out of the way of that
>|> >car?
>|>
>|> Yes; he was wondering what that strange buzzing in his head was, and in
>|> response to that he jumped. As has been shown plenty of times in the comics,
>|> Spidey needs to consciously think about responding to his Spider-Sense or
>|> else he gets creamed.
>I don't know what Spider-Man you been reading.
>The only way he gets hit if he ignores his Spidey Sense.
>He wouldn't do this in battle, so your point is mute.
You want me to quote issue numbers at you? I've been reading Amazing
Spider-Man since Stan Lee and John Buscema were doing it. Spider-Man has
to consciously decide to follow his spider-sense. He's gotten to trust
it much more than he used to, but there are plenty of plots in the past
where he ignores his sense and gets creamed. There are also situations
where he still follows his Spider-Sense and gets hit.
>Spider-Man is a lot more powerful than he was back in your day.
Care to back this up?
Marlon Shows
|> Marlon Shows writes:
|>
|> >|> >Complicated subject, but here goes:
|> >|> > As I understand it, Spider-Man's reflexes are like some insects and
|> >|> >arachnids: they *do not require* conscious thought to trigger in response
|> >|> >to danger. Remember his first app., when he jumped out of the way of that
|> >|> >car?
|> >|>
|> >|> Yes; he was wondering what that strange buzzing in his head was, and in
|> >|> response to that he jumped. As has been shown plenty of times in the comics,
|> >|> Spidey needs to consciously think about responding to his Spider-Sense or
|> >|> else he gets creamed.
|>
|> >I don't know what Spider-Man you been reading.
|> >The only way he gets hit if he ignores his Spidey Sense.
|> >He wouldn't do this in battle, so your point is mute.
|>
|> You want me to quote issue numbers at you? I've been reading Amazing
|> Spider-Man since Stan Lee and John Buscema were doing it. Spider-Man has
|> to consciously decide to follow his spider-sense. He's gotten to trust
|> it much more than he used to, but there are plenty of plots in the past
|> where he ignores his sense and gets creamed. There are also situations
|> where he still follows his Spider-Sense and gets hit.
Please do quote "Recent issue numbers"
I agree Spider-Man can ignore his SS, but he rarely does.
Esp. in battle.
He only ignores it if he's suprised and thinking about something else.
And believe me my friend, this hasn't happened in a while.
|>
|> >Spider-Man is a lot more powerful than he was back in your day.
|>
|> Care to back this up?
Look any issue from this year.
Our student center has a Newbury Comics down stars, so I will go and give you
issue numbers if you really want.
|>
|> --
|> David R. Henry - Rogue Fan Club // Cthulhu! Cthulhu! Cthulhu! And Cthooky!
|> "All you of Earth are IDIOTS!"-P9fOS / What was the question? -- Kate Bush
|> dhe...@plains.nodak.edu * Evolution: Give it some time, it'll grow on ya.
--
Marlon Shows
|> Scott Yukuto Amano writes:
|>
|> >>Actually, no she *wouldn't* be able to use just wind and lightning. Freeze
|> >>the air to subzero temp, whip the wind *everywhere* in the nearby area.
|> >>Spidey can't get away, and he can't survive sub-zero forever.
|> >
|> >Waitaminute...In the time Storm does all this, Spidey could rush her and
|> >pop her on the chin. I have no idea how long all the weather stuff
|> >takes, but it can't be that quick.
|>
|> And if she's hovering a mile above the skyline while she summons the
|> weather, there's not much Spider-Man could do about it (short of
|> flinging over to Johnny Storm and asking to borrow the FantastiCar).
That's not a fight, that's called running away.
I no battle has Storm every chickened out and said, "I'll stay up here away from
you and fight you when I'm ready."
Spiderman might as well go in the basement of some house and wait till the
Storm blows over. A storm of the magnitude you have described would definitely
take a lot out of her.
|>
|> --
|> David R. Henry - Rogue Fan Club // Cthulhu! Cthulhu! Cthulhu! And Cthooky!
|> "All you of Earth are IDIOTS!"-P9fOS / What was the question? -- Kate Bush
|> dhe...@plains.nodak.edu * Evolution: Give it some time, it'll grow on ya.
--
JWaslo
>BEAST, Spidey may have Webbing, more strength, and a spider-sense, but
>Hank is tougher, smarter, and has claws.
>NIGHT-CRAWLER Telaporting will beat strength
Beast and Spidey have already tussled at least once when X-Factor was
hired to go after spidey. Spidey almost clobbered them all, and he had a
severe concussion at the time. As for Hank being smarter, I'm not so
sure.
Plus Spidey has that wonderful Spider sense. That knd of negates
Nightcrawlers teleporting ability. Looks like spidey would clean up.
The Unknown Poster
"You took a few years and undid centuries of effort. It used to be
simple, good on one hand, evil on the other. There was a struggle. We
had a game and, yes, we made it up. And then you came along, the
scientists, the geniuses.....You know, you couldn't care less for the
Human Spirit." - "Mr. Frost" (No Longer Paraphrased For Your Protection)
Vorpal Bunny(TM)
: Vorpal Bunny(TM) (ho...@newstand.syr.edu) wrote:
: : Geez...some people are just so easily pleased. If that's all it'll take
: : Mike, I'll put you in my .sig if it'll keep you quiet.
: This from a man whose main ambition in life appears to be to
: popularize the name "Skippy"?
Details details....we're not insterested in nit-pickers around here.
I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay!
> : This will be done in a boxing format.
>
> : Gambit - easily beaten by the Webster. Gambit goes down in the 3rd round.
Not so easy a victory for the webster. Yes, he'd emerge
victorious eventually, but Remy is no slowpoke. He's dodged bullets on
numerous occasions (from introduction on, see U. X-Men 276 for a neat
example of this). He's also blocked individual incoming round of fire
from Forge with that staff of his (see X-Men #3). So, his reactions are
no slouch and neither is his agility. This would be a battle of "You
missed!" "Oh yeah? You missed!" Be fun as Hell to watch.
> : Beast - slightly longer fight, but he too would lose. Spidey by KO in the 4th
> : round.
> Beast- Hmmmmm....spidey but it would take a while and be bloody
> good to watch, this one would have to be in the danger room so
> as to obtain maximum accrobatics for minimum damage!
Ooh. No argument here. Take a while, yes, but eventually, game,
set, match to Spidey.
>
> : Iceman - tough fight for Spidey, but he's done it before. 5th round knockout.
No argument here, either, except maybe being a little too generous
to Mr. Drake.
> : Cyclops - No way could Spidey win this one. Spidey goes down in the 3rd.
> Cyclops- Dicey, he can move pretty fast can cyc, but the spider sense
> keeps the spider from being fried.....a draw..spidey cant get close
> enough and cyc can't hit him!
You people have inhaled way too many fumes. The battle would
proceed as follows, verbatim. ZAP! *duck* POW! Spidey wins. Cyke just
can't move fast enough to get out of the way of a Spider-Man level of
speed, while Spidey dances around laser, stun, concussion, and general
zap beams in his sleep. No webbing here. The battle needs to be at most
three panels long.
> : Wolverine - close match... Wolvie would pull his punches cause he respects
> : Spidey, but in the end, Wolvie would knock him out. Spidey gets KO'd in the
> : 8th round.
> Wolverine- Adamantium or no....he simply cannot react fast enough.
> the claws are webbed to the arms and he looses....spidey in 1 min.
Spidey vs. Wolverine, Germany. Spidey about to snap Wolverine's
neck, Wolverine about to release his adamantium fury into the Spider's
chest. Trust, me, these two aren't getting a clear winner. Draw. Period.
> : Jubilee - Now _this_ would be a fun fight to watch. Spidey wins cause he's
> : got more experience, but it takes him to the 6th round to do it.
What?! The fight's over already? When did it start? The number of
ways Spider-Man could mop the floor with the firecracker are
incalculable. One eighth of a panel. Don't waste my time.
> : Psylocke - She'd win. It's hard to beat a Telepath/Ninja. Spidey bites it
> : in the 1st round.
> When you get down to it, Jean Grey and Psylocke would have a hard
> time against Spidey, i mean it requires concentration to use
> psionic powers and if they become distracted they would have to use
> hand to hand fighting skills and they would be no match!!!
From Psylocke's reintroduction as a ninja for the Hand, she's
been able to read thoughts during battle as a standard. Plus, she's been
scrambling minds to mess with other's perceptions since at least U. X-Men
#217. But the comparative physical power levels of these two could
stretch the battle out for a good while. Eventually, the psychic knife
finds it's mark and the Spider goes "JUBJUBJUBJUBJUBJUBJUBJUB."
Jean Grey. TK. TKO.
> : Angel - The wing blade would give him a slight advantage, but Spidey would
> : beat him. Spidey wins in the 5th round.
Barrages are old hat for the friendly neighborhood Spider-Man. The
space taken up by Archangel's wings would offer him a better fighting
angle than the narrower tail of the Scorpion, but eventually, match Spidey.
> : Rogue - Spidey goes down in the first round.
> Rouge- In the open, rouge wins....she racks off and nails the Spider
> at mach2.....spider sense or not, he would not move fast enough,
> indoors.....spiderman
Indoors, Titania style clock cleaning by the Spectacular one.
Outdoors, Spider as well. He'd wear Rogue down, and as for her hitting
him, well, a quick overview of what Spidey's put up with:
-Incredible Hulk punches
-Rhino charges
-several story falls
-Abomination punches
-Debris, debris, debris(trains, buildings, subway stations, etc.)
> : Storm - if it stayed hand-to-hand, Spidey would have a chance, but Storm
> : cane easily turn the battle to his side. 2nd round win.
> Storm- Only if Spidey could get some webbing into her eyes
> quickly...otherwise it is just a matter of blowing him clear and
> dropping the room or area temp to a point where Spidey can no longer
> move without effort or slipping on some ice.
Storm, power level is obscenely beyond that of a guy who sticks
to walls. Madame Munroe takes the trophy.
That's it.
Gary E. Poisson
White Kevin
>
>Realistically speaking, Spider-Man could handle any of the X-Men except
>for Rogue (out of his class, although he could defeat her if he got
>lucky), Storm (assuming she stays out of his swinging range), or the
>psionics. If Rogue couldn't fly, it would be a lot closer thing, but
>if nothing else, she takes him up with her into orbit. Spider-Man can't
>survive in high altitude environments, web-helmets notwithstanding,
>while she can.
Personally, I can't see Spidey stopping Colossus. OTOH, I can't
see Colossus landing a mitt on Spidey unless Spidey gets too close, and
his danger sense should prevent that. I would be interested in hearing
how Spiderman could defeat Colossus, barring police intervention or
handy-dandy Mutant Power Nulifiers. If Spidey is constantly leaving
two-bit criminals around in his webbing for the police/street sweepers to
collect, it can't be so strong that the "Jaws of Life" couldn't cut it.
Therefore, the webbing shouldn't hold Colossus. If we assume that
Colossus is gifted with intelligence surpassing the Juggernaut(the
closest rival in strength and armor), Spidey shouldn't be able to trick
him into a foolish mistake.
Of course, with the hashing both their characters has taken in the
last couple of years...
--
Experimental, highly unstable test .sig
Do not approach closer than 0.7 microns.
Kevin White - whit...@uidaho.edu
I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay!
> When has Iceman ever frozen an entire city block?
Froze the entire Empire State Building, in Inferno, when it was two,
three times the size it should be, and it didn't even wind him. Neener
Neener Neener.
Gary E. Poisson
Mike Lavin
whit...@goshawk.csrv.uidaho.edu (White Kevin) writes:
>handy-dandy Mutant Power Nulifiers. If Spidey is constantly leaving
>two-bit criminals around in his webbing for the police/street sweepers to
>collect, it can't be so strong that the "Jaws of Life" couldn't cut it.
>Therefore, the webbing shouldn't hold Colossus. If we assume that
because I don't pay a lot of attention to the comparable strength
of various characters. (The 5-ton, 10-ton, 50-ton stuff is a bit
difficult for me to relate to; but that's just me.) Anyway, here
is the flaw in your argument: Spidey's webbing dissolves naturally
after about one hour of contact with the air. That's part of its
wonderfulness. And surprisingly few opponents have been able to
snap the webbing in combat. As other pundits have pointed out,
Peter Parker could make a fortune if he applied some of his
chemical wizardry to inventing useful products.
Greenstool
Mike zimbouski
: Geez...some people are just so easily pleased. If that's all it'll take
: Mike, I'll put you in my .sig if it'll keep you quiet.
This from a man whose main ambition in life appears to be to
popularize the name "Skippy"?
Mike Z
--
"Arise and drink your bliss, for every thing that lives is holy!"--Blake
"I don't care if your sister did put an ice cube down your shirt. Girls will do
that. You mustn't hit her with the dog."--Blake
All these opinions never promised you a rose garden.
Kevin Napolitano
:out, not if they would normally do so. If Storm wanted
:to flatten someone,
:she'd summon a hurricane and get it over with. It wouldn't take her
:longer than a minute or two, and if she stayed overhead out of web
:range while doing so, there's nothing Spider-Man could do except
:fall
:over.
:
:--
:David R. Henry - Rogue Fan Club // Cthulhu! Cthulhu! Cthulhu! And
You KNOW one scene in a Storm-Spidey battle would be where Spidey
tries to web Storm only to have the web fly back into his face
and tangle him due to a sudden burst of wind.... :)
kevin
David R. Henry
>>I think I've read about 1,000 Spider-Man fights (I have more Spidey comics
>>than I do Rogue comics, and that's not counting limited series). Spider-Man
>>has, spider-sense notwithstanding, been beaned by the Rhino, Sandman,
>>Doctor Octopus, Mysterio, Spot, Electro, and so much, much more that
>>his face is basically a map of famous knuckles of the Marvel Universe.
>Doc Ock: Half the time when he and Spidey fought, it would be in crowded
>buildings with lots of stuff around. And you expect him to be able to dodge
>all four arms at once? (Note: Doc Ock mentally controlled the arms, so they
>could move pretty fast.)
What's this? Suddenly Spider-Man's been demoted from a guy who just cannot
be hit to a guy who, in the right circumstances, can be? That's the whole
point, silly! If you are going to seriously say that we can't expect
Spider-Man to dodge all four arms (which, given the past fights in the
comics, he has trouble doing so), then you also can't claim that he'll
be blissfully dodging, oh, say Cyclops' eyebeams when Scott uses them
on full "pool shot" mode (when he bounces them off numerous walls to
hit an opponent from behind or such). Likewise Archangel's wingdarts.
Doc Ock is hardly the fastest guy in the world -- he can mentally
control the arms, but they still only moved as fast as most people's
arms, which are also, surprisingly, mentally controlled. And Rogue
is certainly just as fast as his arms. Now what are you left with?
If Doc Ock, who's just a fat guy with long-range waldos, can be
a threat to Spidey, then so can folks with a lot more speed,
endurance, and strength -- like Rogue.
>Mysterio: Master of illusions (Ok... non-mutant master of illusions.) The
>first few times they fought Spidey would keep dodging the illusions. Also,
>some of the illusions hide real threats and would set off the famed Spider
>sense.
In the first issue they fought (Amazing Spider-Man #13, I believe, although
Mysterio was around in #1 as well) Spider-Man got knocked all over the
place. Mysterio pummeled him at will on the bridge top. But that was using
his gas that nullified the Spider-Sense, so let's pick the fight on
the movie sound stage at the end of the issue. No gas being used, and
Mysterio still manages to get in one flying leg kick that connects.
Without the gas he loses, of course, but that one flying leg kick,
having come from Rogue or Colossus, would spell considerably more
trouble for Mr. Parker.
>Spot: Who the hell is this? The Munsters' dog (dragon)??
Spot: A villain from around issue #100 of the Spectacular Spider-Man
who could summon, well, spots. Then he could stick his arms or other
body parts through them. Basically, he was like a special-utility
teleporter. He played knuckleball with Spidey for an issue or two, since
Spider-Man, despite his spider-sense, couldn't turn around fast enough
to stop all the spots from hitting him on all sides.
>Electro: Well, lessee... I can never recall Spidey having too much trouble
>with Electro. I mean, considering the webbing is non-conductive....
The point wasn't that Electro hasn't caused lots of trouble for Spidey.
The point is that he's only slightly faster than a normal person, and
he's still managed to hit Spider-Man. As in punching, grappling,
wrestling. And if poor Max Dillon (who's also perhaps my all-time
favorite Marvel villain) can do that to the Webbed Wonder, then there's
still a chance for various members of the X-Men.
I'm saying all this as a guy who's been a huge Spider-Man fan since,
like, the early 70s. I love the guy. I was amazed at his taking
out Firelord (note that he had to detonate a few gas stations to do
so, but, still). But his spider-sense is not infallible, he has no
protection against one lucky hard hit from someone like Rogue, and
all the evidence points to that he would, on the average, get hit
from her. And one hit is all it takes.
I repeat my listing of the individual fights of X-Men vs. Spider-Man:
NO MATCH
The long-range psionics could cut him down with a thought
Storm
Rogue (may be a tie, since he can't hurt her, and, given the right
circumstances, she may not be able to hit him, and she can
fly out of any trap he may set for her -- including ripping
walls out of buildings if he tries webbing her to one)
Kitty Pryde
Dark Phoenix (hey, she was an X-Man)
EVEN UP TO POOR MUTANTS, DEPENDING
Cyclops, Archangel, and other simple projectile mutants. Gambit
would be included here
Wolverine
Colossus (much like Rogue, but lacks her mobility and speed)
Iceman
Longshot
NO CHANCE FOR THE X-SIDE
Beast
Nightcrawler (his ports take too much out of him to wear Spidey down)
Jubilee
--
Michael Straight
So far all I've seen are posts asking, if people with no qualms about
killing had Spidey and the X-Man's powers, who'd win? Storm trashing an
entire neigborhood to "squash" Spiderman? Spidey hitting Wolverine hard
enough to kill him? Iceman freezing the water in Peter's body? Y'all have
been reading Alter-X for too long. It's like saying that the USA could
obviously triumph over the "warlords" in Somalia because we could always
nuke Mogadishu.
One of the interesting things about many X-Men is their attempt to use
powers that are deadly or destructive to do something constructive. Did
any of you see the Classic X-Men Storm vs Cyclops battle? Cyclops could
have easily "won" if he'd just opened his eyes and killed her when she
pulled his visor off, but somehow I doubt the X-Men would have been very
eager to follow him after that. Spiderman could obviously beat Scott in
a similar situation by doging, using cover, sneaking up, and webbing his
visor shut or grabbing it.
Similarly, Storm would have a hard time beating Spiderman without
barbecuing him with a lightning bolt or bringing the neigborhood down with
a typhoon. Rogue would not fly at him at supersonic speed because that
would kill him. To win, she would have to grab him or rip his costume so
she could absorb him. Everyone has forgotten (including all the
X-writers) that Rogue has a "seventh sense" similar to Peter's
spidersense, so she might be about to precog where he was going to dodge
and grab him. Iceman might be able to fill the room with ice so Spiderman
couldn't escape. Jean could just grab him with her mind (she was powerful
enough to do that back in the days when she was wearing bell-bottoms in an
issue where Scott and Bobby were unable to hit Spiderman and Hank and
Warren unable to grab him because of his spidersense). Arcangel might be
able to spray his blades in such a wide area that Spiderman couldn't
dodge them.
On the other hand, Spiderman has his webbing, a non-lethal weapon that
could trap just about all the X-Men. I doubt Rogue can break it, and he
could web Logan's arms to the wall so that he couldn't cut it with his
claws. Bobby might be able to freeze it and make it brittle.
Of course if the X-Men ganged up and laid an intellegent trap, they ought
to be able to capture Spiderman, and a writer could concoct a situation
where a two-year-old could take Spidey out.
Michael Straight awaits the inevitable Spiderman vs Power Pack flame war.
FLEOEVDETYHOEUPROEONREWMEILECSOFMOERSGTIRVAENRGEEARDSTVHIESBIITBTLHEEPSRIACYK
Ethical Mirth Gas/"I'm chaste alright."/The Magical Shirt/"Hath grace limits?"
"Halt this grimace!"/Chili Hamster Tag/The Gilt Charisma/"I gather this calm."
rgua...@vaxc.stevens-tech.edu
The problem I have with this whole Storm flattens Spiderman in 2 seconds
deal is that everyone is assuming that spidey is either trying to vainly
get to Storm or that he's swinging around buildings to dodge tornadoes.
I doubt that Spidey would be this dumb. He'd probably see what Storm was
doing (staying out of his range and blasting him with a hurricane) and lie
low for a bit. And even if he does get caught by something collasping on
him, how many times has that happened before and he's always survived either
by forming a brace with his webbing, dodging the debris, or finding a hollow
to fit into.
The way I see this fight shaping up is that Storm flies up out of Spidey's
range and begins blasting him with lighting. Seeing Spidey dodge all this
she decides to up the ante and summon a full force hurricane to just level
the whole city (we're assuming they're going all out to kill the other one).
Spidey senses this and finds cover where Storm can't see him. He creates a
web brace and manages to survive even if it so happens that Storm levels
a building right over him. Storm eventually either A) gets tired and just
falls out of the sky, or B) looks around and can't find any trace of Spiderman
so she goes down to looks for him, or C) thinks he's dead and leaves. Since
we're assuming they're going all out to kill each other she'll probably want
to see a body so we'll rule out C for now. In either of the other 2 cases,
she's now in Spidey's range and he attacks her way to fast for her to fly
out of range again. In which case 1 spider-strength punch and WHAMMO we have
Storm-colored paint all over the steets.. :)
--
********************************************************************************
* Richard G. Gualtieri (Rick) * rgua...@sitvxc.stevens-tech.edu *
* **************************************************************************** *
* "So he tells me 'I don't like your chin'. So I says to him 'Its the only *
* chin I got'! Yeah baby, yeah!!" *
* -The Evil Midnite Bomber what bombs at *
* midnight (from 'The Tick' Animated series) *
********************************************************************************
David R. Henry
> Hey dude, in response to spidey and Rogue. Remember spidey
>stunned the hulk. Now if you could stun the hulk I'm sure that he could
>takeout Rogue. Hell Spidey took out firelord ( albeit with the alien
>costume) but he still could takeout Rogue.
If we're going to play this game, _Daredevil_ has stunned the Hulk.
Seeing that Matt M. has no more strength than an average human athlete,
are we now going to say that he can beat up Rogue as well?
"I wonder what it looks like." --Daredevil, Man Without Fear, on his costume
--
Bill May
dhe...@plains.NoDak.edu (David R. Henry) writes:
>NO MATCH
>Kitty Pryde
Kitty's got to breath at some point. Can't hurt Spidey until she
becomes solid. Round to Spidey.
>EVEN UP TO POOR MUTANTS, DEPENDING
>Cyclops, Archangel, and other simple projectile mutants. Gambit
> would be included here
>Longshot
No way. Spidey can fend off single direction attacks (and Cyclops,
even in billiard mode is only single direction). Spidey beat
Firelord, while Cycke lost to an unpowered Storm. Must go with
Spidey in all cases.
Of course, all of this depends on who is doing the writing/editing.
Remeber, Spidey took on all the Xmen in Secret Wars (which I'm
has been mentioned) until Prof X mind-wiped him.
wbm
FRANCIS SINATRA
>From: gea...@VIPER.ENGR.SCAROLINA.EDU (Specter)
>Subject: Re: Spider-Man vs. X-Men
>Date: 28 Feb 1995 22:45:05 GMT
>In article <3ivkta$8...@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu>, spau...@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Randall S Spaulding) writes:
>>In article <3ijhmj$2...@ccshst05.cs.uoguelph.ca> jk...@uoguelph.ca (John
>>William King) writes:
>>> rcoa...@daniel.drew.edu wrote:
>>>
>>> : Question: Can Spider-Man take on the X-Men all by himself and kick
>>> : their collective tails? True, since there are so many X-Men, it's
>>> : just a matter of out-numbering him. But, I think Spidey could still
>>> : take on a smaller group of X-Men. He's fought and defeated the
>>> : original X-Men on a number of occasions, and kicked the "new" X-Men
>>> : around in the original Secret Wars. So, who could defeat Spidey and
>>> : who would get clobbered by him. Any theories?
>>>
I would have to agree with the Secret Wars #3 evidence. Spider-Man kicked
everybody's butt without blinking. But, just show I'm fair, Proffessor X did
sort of fry Spidey's brain into forgeting what he was doing, so it could go
either way. As in everythiing, it depends on the situation.
Stephen Speck
: > Rogue & Colossus: Well, Spider-Man could never defeat them. Slow them
: > down, yes. They *are* invulnerable. If they were *serious* about
: > getting him, they would, sooner or later.
: Colossus maybe. But Rogue? Spidey webs her up, then webs her to the
: bottom of a pool. Can she hold her breath for the hour it would take
: for the webbing to dissolve? (I dunno if Colossus needs to breathe.)
Are you forgetting that Rogue can survive in outer space for an undetermined
amount of time? If Rogue can survive where there's no oxygen available, why
not be able to survive at the bottom of a pool for an hour?
Eric Sturgeon
>Note: I snipped out the ones that I agreed with.
>
>dhe...@plains.NoDak.edu (David R. Henry) writes:
>>NO MATCH
>>Kitty Pryde
>
>Kitty's got to breath at some point. Can't hurt Spidey until she
Kitty can breathe while she's phased. This is long, *long* established fact.
In fact, T-Rex and I hashed all this out a few months ago, and he posted on it.
It's in the Excalibur Danglers list, ferchrissakes.
Anybody who can phase at will, who can also selectively phase parts of their
bodies(such as Kitty), can beat anybody except psis and mages. They don't even
need to be particularly good at fighting. They don't even need to pull the
phase them and stick 'em in a wall trick. They just leave everything but their
hands and feet phased, and phase those when necessary, and pummel the living
crap out of them, while the other guy can't touch 'em.
Also, the thing about the projectile fighters being able to take out Spidey:
Spider-Man can dodge sustained machine gun fire, people. Except for the
super-humanly fast people, Spider-Man can dodge anything anybody would be
throwing or shooting at him.
Sure, Cyclops would still be able to beat him by using his talent for spacial
geometry(does anybody remember that? Somebody should remind the writers...),
but only if there were enough reflective surfaces around. His optic blasts
probably wouldn't bounce off of, say, brick. They'd shatter it.
And I was going to make another point, but I forget what it was.
The Stirge. I'm back. (Like anybody knew I was gone...)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
J. Eric Sturgeon, a.k.a. The Stirge | estu...@eac.cc.az.us |
Writer of Errand Boy and Miss Ng in | sti...@eyrie.stanford.edu |
Action for the LNH. EB#8 and MNiA#3 | (602) 428-7075 (changes to (520) |
coming soon! Please read them. Okay?| March 19. Don't ask me why... |
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