Adult dialog in old "Peanuts"
Nick Theodorakis
"Peanuts" comic books for a dime each. In one of them (_What Next,
Charlie Brown? - selected cartoons from "You're out you mind, Charlie
Brown_).
In one strip, Lucy grabs a book from Linus. When he threatens to slug
her, Lucy complains loudly, and from "off-strip" their mom's voice
calls "Linus! That's no way to talk!" He responds, "Well, that's the
way they talk on T.V.!! If they talk that way why can't I?" The mother
replies "That's just one of those things I can't explain."
I can't recall any other dialog from adults in the strip. Does anybody
have any other examples?
Nick
--
Nick Theodorakis
nick_the...@hotmail.com
nicholas_theodorakis [at] urmc [dot] rochester [dot] edu
Carl Fink
Theodorakis wrote:
> I can't recall any other dialog from adults in the strip. Does anybody
> have any other examples?
Linus points his forefinger at Lucy and shouts, "Bang! Bang!"
Lucy screams, "Linus keeps shooting me!"
An offscreen parent tells Linus to, "Put that gun away!" He opens
the other fingers of his hand to "put away" his literal hand-gun.
--
Carl Fink ca...@fink.to
Jabootu's Minister of Proofreading
http://www.jabootu.com
axlq in California
Nick Theodorakis <nick_the...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I can't recall any other dialog from adults in the [Peanuts]
>strip. Does anybody have any other examples?
I recall one where Charlie Brown was writing a letter to his
Pen[cil] Pal, and he gets stuck spelling a word, calls to his Mom,
"How many Ks in ______?" [I can't remember if it was the letter K,
and I can't remember the word] and his Mom responds from off-panel,
"Two, dear." And then Charlie Brown proceeds to misspell the word
anyway, putting the double letter in the wrong place.
And then there are the animated cartoons, where the adults talk
off-screen, "Wa wa wa wa Wa wa WA WA wa wa wa. Wa wa wa? Wa wa."
-A
BradW8
Brown decides to buy his own flannel for a security blanket -- featured the
hand of the adult clerk on the counter.
Don Del Grande
> I recall one where Charlie Brown was writing a letter to his
> Pen[cil] Pal, and he gets stuck spelling a word, calls to his Mom,
> "How many Ks in ______?" [I can't remember if it was the letter K,
> and I can't remember the word] and his Mom responds from off-panel,
> "Two, dear." And then Charlie Brown proceeds to misspell the word
> anyway, putting the double letter in the wrong place.
That's the one that came to my mind as well, but the word was
"goggles"; when Charlie Brown's mother told him it had 3 G's, he
spelled it "ggogles".
-- Don
Jym Dyer
off-screen adult voices I remember from the strip's run. To
which I'll add: various admonitions from Lucy's mom during
her fussbudget days. The _Peanuts_ "hisotry" site recently
ran one of these (from 16-Apr-1954) that wasn't reprinted in
any of the books.
=v= In addition to the adult hand in the Dry Goods store, we've
also seen the hand of an usher removing a velvet rope barrier
to let the gang into a movie. However, these employees tend
to be teens (in the strip as well as in real life).
<_Jym_>
Ted Kerin
As a knowledgeable "Peanuts" fan like you probably knows, Schulz did a
somewhat extensive series of cartoons about teenagers. They look like
stretched-up versions of his usual drawing style.
I have 3 or 4 books of these cartoons. (The first in the series I think, is
called something like "What Was Up With Ol' Pharoah?".) The teens seemed
pretty involved with church-realted activities, more so than in "Peanuts",
but the humor was otherwise similar to "Peanuts", with the interesting twist
of Schulz working in a one-panel format.
Ted Kerin
"Ted Kerin" <tf.k...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:c60tl...@news3.newsguy.com...
>
> (The first in the series I think, is
> called something like "What Was Up With Ol' Pharoah?".)
>
Sorry, that title was "What Was Buggin" Ol' Pharoah?". Another in the series
was called "Young Pillars".
I don't remember any intro explaining the origin of the books, but the
cartoons look like they may well have been something that Schulz initially
did as a gigantic favor to his local church newsletter.
Jym Dyer
> but the cartoons look like they may well have been something
> that Schulz initially did as a gigantic favor to his local
> church newsletter.
=v= Yep, it was for church newsletters.
=v= The one-panel format is where Schulz got his start.
_Peanuts_ is descended from his _Li'l_Folks_ strip, which
was 3 or 4 one-panel gags, and which is now available in
a book!
http://www.schulzmuseum.org/news.html
<_Jym_>
P.S.: The first edition of _The_Complete_Peanuts_ has
been printed, too. See that same URL for details!
Ted Kerin
a Disease".
Invid Fan
wrote:
Is there any other place to buy the 'Li'l Folks' book? $10 shipping on
a $30 book is a little much...
--
Chris Mack "Refugee, total shit. That's how I've always seen us.
'Invid Fan' Not a help, you'll admit, to agreement between us."
-'Deal/No Deal', CHESS
Saint Stephen
Who in the heck wants to wait 12 and a half *years* to collect all the
Peanuts strips. Are they nuts?
I'd buy it if they shipped them on DVD, but I guess that's why their
dribbling them out, to prevent pirates in China from sapping the market.
Invid Fan
<sa...@stephen.com> wrote:
> > In article <Jym.wzhdv...@econet.org>, Jym Dyer <j...@econet.org>
> > wrote:
> >> http://www.schulzmuseum.org/news.html
>
> Who in the heck wants to wait 12 and a half *years* to collect all the
> Peanuts strips. Are they nuts?
>
There's a company publishing the original Hardy Boy books in hardcover
(1920's version, not the re-written 60's stories many of us grew up
on). One volume a year. They've been at it for 14 years, so if you
start collecting now at least you can get those in a lump sum :)
> I'd buy it if they shipped them on DVD, but I guess that's why their
> dribbling them out, to prevent pirates in China from sapping the market.
That, and some of us like physical books. The only problem with
Fantagraphics is they let thier comicstrip collections go out of
print...
Matt J. McCullar
> have any other examples?
It happened only rarely. One of the kids was handed a free baseball cap
during a giveaway at the baseball park (I think it was Peppermint Patty) and
you heard the adult say, "Here's your free cap, kid," or something like
that.
I recall Charlie Brown voluntarily giving up his place in line at the movie
theater ticket office so Lucy could go ahead of him. They were giving away
free candy bars but, of course, they ran out just as C.B. got to the
counter. "Sorry, kid, that's the way it goes," says the ticket agent from
behind the glass.
One *very* determined fan managed to track down an extremely rare Sunday
page that showed C.B. and Lucy playing in a golf tournament. Adults were
drawn in abundance in the background. Lucy was mopping up the floor with
the competition until she suddenly realized that she had to go home for
supper (or something like that). This page appeared in an issue of _Hogan's
Alley_ and the person who submitted it said that when he showed it to Schulz
some years ago, Schulz was visually surprised -- he'd forgotten all about
it.
Gordon Gekko
It's rare, but adults do talk--
I remember an old book from when I was a kid, probably late 60's or very
early 70's as a first run--Lucy and Linus are drawing pictures. Linus bets
Lucy he knows how the adult (grandmother?) will answer when asked which she
likes better--and Linus wins when the grandmother says, "I think they're
both very nice!"
Right after this ng started when I was still in colege, a voice is cheering
Snoopy on. When asked what he gave his dad for father's day, CB says, "I
let him play with my dog." Interestingly, after this strip ran, the same
conversation took place as in this thread. Also, at the time it was noted
that it was the first time in like 30 years Snoopy appeared on four legs.
On TV==in "She's a Great Skate Charlie Brown" the teacher says, "Patty!"
"Patricia, please wake up!" It is clearly audible voice, not the "Wah wah
wah wah wah!" of most Peanuts specials. In the same one there are other
clear, adult voices if I rememebr right. (And was my answer to this
question then--probably still available for viewing at google groups, as if
anyone cares)
Finally, Schultz had some kind of a "Pass, Punt, Kick" special with
supposedly adult announcers (but maybe kids/teens) int he early 1990's. It
was perhaps the worst and stupidest Peanuts special of all time, little more
than a commercial for NFL P-P-K, and endimic of the selling out of and
decline of the franchise in its later years.
Not at all like the classic Sally Brown quote, "Arbor Day? Arbor Day is all
the ships sail into the Arbor!"
"Nick Theodorakis" <nick_the...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:40832ba5...@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
Michael G. Koerner
>
> In article <pan.2004.04.19....@stephen.com>, Saint Stephen
> <sa...@stephen.com> wrote:
>
> > > In article <Jym.wzhdv...@econet.org>, Jym Dyer <j...@econet.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >> http://www.schulzmuseum.org/news.html
> >
> > Who in the heck wants to wait 12 and a half *years* to collect all the
> > Peanuts strips. Are they nuts?
> >
> There's a company publishing the original Hardy Boy books in hardcover
> (1920's version, not the re-written 60's stories many of us grew up
> on). One volume a year. They've been at it for 14 years, so if you
> start collecting now at least you can get those in a lump sum :)
>
> > I'd buy it if they shipped them on DVD, but I guess that's why their
> > dribbling them out, to prevent pirates in China from sapping the market.
>
> That, and some of us like physical books. The only problem with
> Fantagraphics is they let thier comicstrip collections go out of
> print...
Agreed, I found out about their Prince Valiant series too late to get
volumes 3-6 and volume 1 went OOP about a month before I was planning to
buy a copy of it.
--
___________________________________________ ____ _______________
Regards, | |\ ____
| | | | |\
Michael G. Koerner May they | | | | | | rise again!
Appleton, Wisconsin USA | | | | | |
___________________________________________ | | | | | | _______________
John Duncan Yoyo
wrote:
>In article <pan.2004.04.19....@stephen.com>, Saint Stephen
><sa...@stephen.com> wrote:
>
>> > In article <Jym.wzhdv...@econet.org>, Jym Dyer <j...@econet.org>
>> > wrote:
>> >> http://www.schulzmuseum.org/news.html
>>
>> Who in the heck wants to wait 12 and a half *years* to collect all the
>> Peanuts strips. Are they nuts?
>>
>There's a company publishing the original Hardy Boy books in hardcover
>(1920's version, not the re-written 60's stories many of us grew up
>on). One volume a year. They've been at it for 14 years, so if you
>start collecting now at least you can get those in a lump sum :)
Any chance they are doing Tom Swift? Not the Tom Swift Juniors but
the seniors where he got a roadster and other roaring twenties high
tech.
--
John Duncan Yoyo
------------------------------o)
Brought to you by the Binks for Senate campaign comittee.
Coruscant is far, far away from wesa on Naboo.
Invid Fan
Yoyo <john-dun...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:15:12 -0400, Invid Fan <in...@localnet.com>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <pan.2004.04.19....@stephen.com>, Saint Stephen
> ><sa...@stephen.com> wrote:
> >
> >> > In article <Jym.wzhdv...@econet.org>, Jym Dyer <j...@econet.org>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >> http://www.schulzmuseum.org/news.html
> >>
> >> Who in the heck wants to wait 12 and a half *years* to collect all the
> >> Peanuts strips. Are they nuts?
> >>
> >There's a company publishing the original Hardy Boy books in hardcover
> >(1920's version, not the re-written 60's stories many of us grew up
> >on). One volume a year. They've been at it for 14 years, so if you
> >start collecting now at least you can get those in a lump sum :)
>
> Any chance they are doing Tom Swift? Not the Tom Swift Juniors but
> the seniors where he got a roadster and other roaring twenties high
> tech.
Yeah, they're doing those. Having just decided to start collecting
Hardy Boy and Tom Swift books, I've taken a crash course in these
things :) The company is Applewood Books http://www.awb.com . Their
Swift books have the original dust jackets.
Thing is, the original Swift books arent that hard to find, and minus
jackets are reasonably cheap. Plus, the tan hardcovers are just damned
cool...
Charles Whitney
"Matt J. McCullar" <mccu...@flash.net> wrote in message
news:7b%gc.670$Vu3...@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...
>
> One *very* determined fan managed to track down an extremely rare Sunday
> page that showed C.B. and Lucy playing in a golf tournament. Adults were
> drawn in abundance in the background. Lucy was mopping up the floor with
> the competition until she suddenly realized that she had to go home for
> supper (or something like that). This page appeared in an issue of
_Hogan's
> Alley_ and the person who submitted it said that when he showed it to
Schulz
> some years ago, Schulz was visually surprised -- he'd forgotten all about
> it.
I'm fairly certain this particular strip was included in _Peanuts: The Art
of Charles M. Shulz_, which was published in 2001. It's quite an
interesting book.
C
JGM
> It
>was perhaps the worst and stupidest Peanuts special of all time
And that's saying something!
As protective of his characters as he was, Schulz allowed some horrendous
animated projects over the years. I think it's fair to say anything outside of
the orginal batch of holiday specials is non-canonical.
JGM
Scott McGuire
jgmc...@aol.com (JGM) wrote:
> As protective of his characters as he was, Schulz allowed some horrendous
> animated projects over the years. I think it's fair to say anything outside
> of the orginal batch of holiday specials is non-canonical.
Schulz himself said all the TV shows were non-canonical.
Nevertheless, Schulz was firmly involved with all the TV shows, and
while he occasionally gave in to pressure from the networks (one example
was showing the Little Red Haired Girl, which he later said he
regretted), he shares some of the responsibility for even the bad ones.
--
Scott McGuire / smcg...@mit.edu
Peanuts TV Page - http://web.mit.edu/smcguire/www/peanuts.html
Scott McGuire
"Gordon Gekko" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> On TV==in "She's a Great Skate Charlie Brown" the teacher says, "Patty!"
> "Patricia, please wake up!" It is clearly audible voice, not the "Wah wah
> wah wah wah!" of most Peanuts specials. In the same one there are other
> clear, adult voices if I rememebr right. (And was my answer to this
> question then--probably still available for viewing at google groups, as if
> anyone cares)
>
> Finally, Schultz had some kind of a "Pass, Punt, Kick" special with
> supposedly adult announcers (but maybe kids/teens) int he early 1990's. It
> was perhaps the worst and stupidest Peanuts special of all time, little more
> than a commercial for NFL P-P-K, and endimic of the selling out of and
> decline of the franchise in its later years.
"She's a Good Skate, Charlie Brown" (1980) was the first TV special
where an adult spoke clearly (ignoring the adult voice from the "PTA
meeting in a spray can," in the early special "Play It Again, Charlie
Brown").
Adult voices, and even appearance by adults, become increasingly common
after that in the TV shows.
Some examples: the movie "Bon Voyage, Charlie Brown" and its sequel
show "What Have We Learned, Charlie Brown" have adults that are both
seen and speaking. So do "Snoopy's Reunion" and "It's the Pied Piper,
Charlie Brown." "You're in the Superbowl" has the off-screen announcer,
as you note.
And almost all of the "This is America, Charlie Brown" shows have adult
historical personages that are seen and heard. But it would have been
hard to teach history if Abe Lincoln just said mwa-mwa-mwa.
Antonio E. Gonzalez
>Date: 4/20/2004 10:17 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <smcguire-24E029...@news.newsguy.com>
>
>In article <20040420073159...@mb-m06.aol.com>,
> jgmc...@aol.com (JGM) wrote:
>
>> As protective of his characters as he was, Schulz allowed some horrendous
>> animated projects over the years. I think it's fair to say anything
>outside
>> of the orginal batch of holiday specials is non-canonical.
>
>Schulz himself said all the TV shows were non-canonical.
>
>Nevertheless, Schulz was firmly involved with all the TV shows, and
>while he occasionally gave in to pressure from the networks (one example
>was showing the Little Red Haired Girl, which he later said he
>regretted), he shares some of the responsibility for even the bad ones.
>
They didn't just show her, she got a name! (which I can't remember off the
top of my head)
- Vaughner
- "Well, thanks to the internet, I'm bored with sex."
- Philip J. Fry, "Futurama"
Ted Kerin
"Antonio E. Gonzalez" <ante...@aol.complex> wrote in message
news:20040420154803...@mb-m07.aol.com...
>
> They didn't just show her, she got a name! (which I can't remember off
the
> top of my head)
>
"Heather" -- I think.
John Duncan Yoyo
wrote:
>Yeah, they're doing those. Having just decided to start collecting
>Hardy Boy and Tom Swift books, I've taken a crash course in these
>things :) The company is Applewood Books http://www.awb.com . Their
>Swift books have the original dust jackets.
>
>Thing is, the original Swift books arent that hard to find, and minus
>jackets are reasonably cheap. Plus, the tan hardcovers are just damned
>cool...
Thanks, I was mostly curious if someone thinks there is a market. I
read the juniors as a kid and was curious about the seniors. I saw a
pile of them at a local used book store and wanted a feel for the used
price versus the new one.
Gordon Gekko
I'd say when CB quit being a total loser and the plot focused on the other
kids and, more so, Snoopy. Late 70-s early 80's.
"Scott McGuire" <smcg...@mit.edu> wrote in message
news:smcguire-E56B1C...@news.newsguy.com...
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
>>jackets are reasonably cheap. Plus, the tan hardcovers are just damned
>>cool...
>
>Thanks, I was mostly curious if someone thinks there is a market. I
>read the juniors as a kid and was curious about the seniors. I saw a
>pile of them at a local used book store and wanted a feel for the used
>price versus the new one.
>
I read most of the Juniors first and then started on the seniors.
In some ways the srs were better (ie, Tom is an actual adult, who
romances and eventually marries, the stories were longer and a bit
more complicated), though if I were going to give them to a kid today
(and I may well), I would explain first about stereotypes and how stupid
they were.
The third series jumped the shark completely. Whereas the Jr. writers
had obviously read (or at least had a 'bible' for) the Srs., the third
series threw away all the background, moved Shopton from New England
to Arizona (?), passed over chance after chance to have adult mentors from
the second series, and went completely PC (ie: Tom's sidekicks were
a disabled woman and an American Indian, and he could only accomplish
anything by working as part of a group).
Never had the courage to try the fourth series..
Ted
Invid Fan
Yoyo <john-dun...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 03:56:10 -0400, Invid Fan <in...@localnet.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Yeah, they're doing those. Having just decided to start collecting
> >Hardy Boy and Tom Swift books, I've taken a crash course in these
> >things :) The company is Applewood Books http://www.awb.com . Their
> >Swift books have the original dust jackets.
> >
> >Thing is, the original Swift books arent that hard to find, and minus
> >jackets are reasonably cheap. Plus, the tan hardcovers are just damned
> >cool...
>
> Thanks, I was mostly curious if someone thinks there is a market. I
> read the juniors as a kid and was curious about the seniors. I saw a
> pile of them at a local used book store and wanted a feel for the used
> price versus the new one.
What are they charging? My Hardy Boy collection is about complete, but
I'm looking to get the Swift and Swift Jr. books. If anyone knows a
non-ebay source for the orange/yellow covered Swift Jr books, let me
know.
Charles Whitney
"JGM" <jgmc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040420073159...@mb-m06.aol.com...
> Gordon Gekko wrote:
>
> > It
> >was perhaps the worst and stupidest Peanuts special of all time
>
> And that's saying something!
Even worse than "It's Flashbeagle, Charlie Brown!"?
They became like Chips episodes for dumb kids who weren't old enough to
watch Chips.
C
Bill Holbrook
> So, the question is when did "Peanuts" Jump the Shark?
It never did. Schulz was at the top of his game, right up to the end.
Silver Puss
expression, and imagined that his house was a Sopwith Camel. This is
the moment when it became a strip for children.
I started reading the Peanuts anthologies in elementary school, the
ones that reprinted strips originally published from the 50s to
mid-60s. I wondered why the present-day strips weren't even remotely
as good.
These are not uncommon complaints, but Peanuts has become a sacred cow
that people are afraid to openly criticize.
John Duncan Yoyo
wrote:
>In article <406b801ffapilrmkq...@4ax.com>, John Duncan
>Yoyo <john-dun...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 03:56:10 -0400, Invid Fan <in...@localnet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Yeah, they're doing those. Having just decided to start collecting
>> >Hardy Boy and Tom Swift books, I've taken a crash course in these
>> >things :) The company is Applewood Books http://www.awb.com . Their
>> >Swift books have the original dust jackets.
>> >
>> >Thing is, the original Swift books arent that hard to find, and minus
>> >jackets are reasonably cheap. Plus, the tan hardcovers are just damned
>> >cool...
>>
>> Thanks, I was mostly curious if someone thinks there is a market. I
>> read the juniors as a kid and was curious about the seniors. I saw a
>> pile of them at a local used book store and wanted a feel for the used
>> price versus the new one.
>
>What are they charging? My Hardy Boy collection is about complete, but
>I'm looking to get the Swift and Swift Jr. books. If anyone knows a
>non-ebay source for the orange/yellow covered Swift Jr books, let me
>know.
Sorry I didn't file the information in memory. It is one of the more
distant local bookstores so it is a minor expedition but it had piles
of books everywhere.
Which ones are you looking for? The last one is the only one that I
think might be real expensive. It didn't get good distribution and is
a rare find.
Mike Peterson
"Silver Puss" <ak55...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9931d0a4.04042...@posting.google.com...
> When the dog stopped walking on all fours, adopted a perpetually smug
> expression, and imagined that his house was a Sopwith Camel. This is
> the moment when it became a strip for children.
>
> I started reading the Peanuts anthologies in elementary school, the
> ones that reprinted strips originally published from the 50s to
> mid-60s. I wondered why the present-day strips weren't even remotely
> as good.
Agreed -- to a point. I think the strip began a major comeback in about the
last year and a half of its existence. Rerun was emerging as a character
with the kind of depth and resonance Schulz routinely gave the strip in its
earlier days -- before people began referring to it as "Snoopy."
It was a bit of a slippery slope -- when Snoopy began doing imitations of
Lucy and Violet -- sitting next to Lucy with his ears imitating her hair or
walking behind Violet -- it was bizarre and funny. The "vulture" and
"anaconda" sequences were quite funny, because they were so pathetically
off-kilter. But, looking back, I don't know how you can do that to a
character without signalling a shark-jump about to come. Did it start when
Snoopy and Charlie Brown were sitting together eating chocolate cremes and
gagging over the coconut? I mean, did ANY dog ever object to coconut? Hard
to say where the slide actually began.
But it's easy to see where it led (to) ... aside from Schulz channeling his
personal interest in hockey into endless Zamboni jokes (could have been
worse -- he could have had a Johnny Hart conversion experience) ... I got
the feeling for a very extended period that he was doodling Snoopy in
various guises -- Joe Cool, etc. -- and then simply building a strip around
that doodle.
It's not a matter of being lazy -- god knows the guy was cranking on all
cylinders, constantly -- but it wasn't creative and it didn't advance the
strip. It advanced the franchise, but I think that was less cynical that the
phrase sounds ... I think he'd draw a picture of Snoopy playing golf and
would get a thousand fan letters from golfers and would keep going in that
route ...
If he'd gone straight from the wonderful sequence of Lucy "teaching" Linus
about trees, or the Miss Othmar strips, to Joe Cool, he'd have been deluged
with "what the hell are you doing?" letters and might have backed off. But
the initial strips humanizing Snoopy (which began before that anyway) were
funny and didn't stretch the limits the way the later stuff did -- by then,
people accepted the direction. It was like the frog being gradually heated
in the pot (yeah, I know that's not biologically true.)
> These are not uncommon complaints, but Peanuts has become a sacred cow
> that people are afraid to openly criticize.
Certainly, Schulz was more than an inspiration to a generation or two of
cartoonists -- he was an active and generous mentor.
That said, I think the bigger factor is that the people who remember the
pre-Joe-Cool version of the strip are old farts like me, and there is a
substantial bulge of adults for whom Joe Cool was up and running by the time
they ran into the cartoon at all -- and they ran into the cartoon after they
had seen the Peanuts animated specials, so they were prepped for a kiddie
strip and it met their expectations.
The argument can be made that Peanuts was more successful as a kiddie strip
than it was in its previous incarnation. My only reply to that is that it
was awfully damn successful in the first place and didn't NEED to become an
outlet for toys and a medium for insurance commercials. And I wish Schulz
had stuck to his original premise because he was a brilliant, creative guy
with a lot of respect for his own medium.
Which, in turn, makes it hard to argue that his vision of where he wanted it
to go was objectively wrong.
Mike Peterson
Glens Falls NY
Mark Jackson
> But it's easy to see where it led (to) ... aside from Schulz channeling his
> personal interest in hockey into endless Zamboni jokes (could have been
> worse -- he could have had a Johnny Hart conversion experience) ...
You're right - golf jokes are so much worse. . . .
--
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
Hate to interrupt with a spelling flame, but it's "Cheney,"
not "Chaney." It may only be one letter, but it's 998 faces.
- Mike Peterson
Saint Stephen
> "Mike Peterson" <pete...@SPAMnelliebly.org> writes:
>
>> But it's easy to see where it led (to) ... aside from Schulz channeling his
>> personal interest in hockey into endless Zamboni jokes (could have been
>> worse -- he could have had a Johnny Hart conversion experience) ...
>
> You're right - golf jokes are so much worse. . . .
I can't think of a single thing Peanuts-related I did not enjoy. Even the
Saturday morning show in the late 90s (or whenever it was in the 90s) on
CBS was funny.
My favorite character was Violet. It bugged me that she didn't get as
much air time. I think I when I was young I used to wonder: who's that
strange version of Lucy who looks slightly different, and what's so
mysterious about her.
I read on the site there was a girl in the 50's who used to always appear
with Violet, and they would always make comments about C.B. when he walked
passed, who disappeared altogether.
Peter Zale
> that people are afraid to openly criticize.
All due respect to Bill, I think by 1966 Peanuts was elevated in the
pop culture and Sparky made concessions to that, consciously or
unconsciously.
Peter Zale
Helen, Sweetheart of the Internet
Rex F. May
Ted Kerin
"Gordon Gekko" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Hdihc.4551$gH6....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
Woodstock.
Sample hilarity, spread over 10 Sunday panels: flap, flap, flap, flap, flap,
flap, flap, flap, flap, flap, flap, flap, flap, flap, *klunk".
OK, maybe that wasn't a real example, but it's about the right level of
hilarity for Woodstock.
But I agree that the strip's humor came back, after a bad phase of cuteness
instead of humor.
The drawing and inking style always improved, to the end, even all through
the artist's increasingly obvious post-surgical palsy.
Jim Strain
> cylinders, constantly -- but it wasn't creative and it didn't advance the
> strip. It advanced the franchise, but I think that was less cynical that the
> phrase sounds ... I think he'd draw a picture of Snoopy playing golf and
> would get a thousand fan letters from golfers and would keep going in that
> route ...
Exactly. And that's why "kids' strip" isn't really the right epithet.
When I was in the navy in the mid 1960's, every ready-room I ever
visited, afloat or ashore, had a bulletin board covered with Sopwith
Camel strips. Once I got out of the service and went back to college,
my friends and I would laugh our butts off at the Joe Cool strips.
"Citizen Kane. Great. I've only seen it a thousand times."
I understand the OP's point, and I agree that the earlier work was the
freshest, most original -- and funniest -- but that doesn't mean that
all of the Snoopy strips were just junk or kid stuff. On the other
hand, I was never a fan of the Woodstock tangents.
. . . jim strain in san diego.
Invid Fan
Yoyo <john-dun...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:38:57 -0400, Invid Fan <in...@localnet.com>
> wrote:
>
> >What are they charging? My Hardy Boy collection is about complete, but
> >I'm looking to get the Swift and Swift Jr. books. If anyone knows a
> >non-ebay source for the orange/yellow covered Swift Jr books, let me
> >know.
>
> Sorry I didn't file the information in memory. It is one of the more
> distant local bookstores so it is a minor expedition but it had piles
> of books everywhere.
>
No problem. i was just curious :)
> Which ones are you looking for? The last one is the only one that I
> think might be real expensive. It didn't get good distribution and is
> a rare find.
I'm just starting that collection, so only have a set of 5 Jr. books I
picked up. I'm in no hurry, as this is just an attempt to be a kid
again.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Well, don't hurry to the end (Galaxy Ghosts, Cosmotron Express (iirc)),
they completely blow the characterizations there.
Ted
ronniecat
wonder why someone would be looking for examples of r-rated exchanges
in "Peanuts"?
ronnie
the gutter,
New Brunswick
--
~ address altered to foil spambots * remove my collar to reply ~
~mon pied a terre virtuel * http://www.ronniecat.com ~
KWBrown
news:m19d80h1fg14kiirh...@4ax.com:
> Just out of curiosity, did anyone else originally see this thread and
> wonder why someone would be looking for examples of r-rated exchanges
> in "Peanuts"?
>
> ronnie
> the gutter,
> New Brunswick
Must be a Canajun thing.
Kate
Lotusland
BC
Brian Rodenborn
Mike Peterson <pete...@SPAMnelliebly.org> wrote in message
news:T9WdnWvcsc5...@adelphia.com...
> But it's easy to see where it led (to) ... aside from Schulz channeling
his
> personal interest in hockey into endless Zamboni jokes (could have been
> worse -- he could have had a Johnny Hart conversion experience)
Hey, if ya gotta get Religion, Hockey's not a bad one. Of course, some
(Blues Nation) are staring to feel that their God has forsaken them.
Brian Rodenborn
entialdiffer
>
> "Silver Puss" <ak55...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:9931d0a4.04042...@posting.google.com..
> > expression, and imagined that his house was a Sopwith Camel. This is
> > the moment when it became a strip for children.
> >
> > I started reading the Peanuts anthologies in elementary school, the
> > ones that reprinted strips originally published from the 50s to
> > mid-60s. I wondered why the present-day strips weren't even remotely
> > as good.
>
> Agreed -- to a point. I think the strip began a major comeback in about the
> last year and a half of its existence. Rerun was emerging as a character
> with the kind of depth and resonance Schulz routinely gave the strip in its
> earlier days -- before people began referring to it as "Snoopy."
I agree. I'd grown used to the same old Spike jokes, and the disconnected gags day
after day. And then, strangely, interestingly, Schulz reached back into the minor
character list and pulled out Rerun, and the strip came to life again.
I think what happened was that Rerun didn't come with any baggage. There never really
was any characterization set up for him, which meant that when Schulz started using
Rerun, he was free to return to much earlier themes like confusion, loss, and longing.
Peanuts was gentler, more surprising, and more personal in its last couple of years.
It was great to see that Charles Schulz was still a great cartoonist.
John Duncan Yoyo
<tednolan>) wrote:
>In article <210420041155302750%in...@localnet.com>,
>Invid Fan <in...@localnet.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>In article <1f9c80pror2jgskfu...@4ax.com>, John Duncan
>>Yoyo <john-dun...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:38:57 -0400, Invid Fan <in...@localnet.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>
>>> >What are they charging? My Hardy Boy collection is about complete, but
>>> >I'm looking to get the Swift and Swift Jr. books. If anyone knows a
>>> >non-ebay source for the orange/yellow covered Swift Jr books, let me
>>> >know.
Most of mine were blue. I wonder if my brother put them into storage
for me....
>>>
>>> Sorry I didn't file the information in memory. It is one of the more
>>> distant local bookstores so it is a minor expedition but it had piles
>>> of books everywhere.
>>>
>>No problem. i was just curious :)
There must be one of those old bookstores around you somewhere. When
I was a kid there was one in a big old victorian with books stacked
everywhere. I remember short stacks on the steps. all the way
upstairs. The prices were reasonable because they did volume.
>>
>>> Which ones are you looking for? The last one is the only one that I
>>> think might be real expensive. It didn't get good distribution and is
>>> a rare find.
>>
>>I'm just starting that collection, so only have a set of 5 Jr. books I
>>picked up. I'm in no hurry, as this is just an attempt to be a kid
>>again.
>
This site seems pretty good for synopsis.
<http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/3712/> and this one might have
links to give you an idea what things can cost
<http://users.arczip.com/fwdixon/tomswift/>. Some of these are
frighteningly expensive.
Rick Stromoski
sa...@stephen.com wrote on 4/21/04 7:39 AM:
> I read on the site there was a girl in the 50's who used to always appear
> with Violet, and they would always make comments about C.B. when he walked
> passed, who disappeared altogether.
That would be Patty. Not the peppermint variety.
Bill Holbrook
> I read on the site there was a girl in the 50's who used to always appear
> with Violet, and they would always make comments about C.B. when he walked
> passed, who disappeared altogether.
That was Patty, not to be confused with Peppermint Patty.
Peter Zale
The last year of strips is tear inducing at times. They're wonderful.
In a wholly different way though.
But the strip did what a lot of strips do. It got a huge popular
self-consciousness and thought of itself (Schulz thought of it) as a
certain thing for the culture. he saw himself serving the collective.
It's that crucial bit of self-definition that kills a lot.
Vince Macek
> I was at a yard sale down the street, and picked up three old
> "Peanuts" comic books for a dime each. In one of them (_What Next,
> Charlie Brown? - selected cartoons from "You're out you mind, Charlie
> Brown_).
>
> In one strip, Lucy grabs a book from Linus. When he threatens to slug
> her, Lucy complains loudly, and from "off-strip" their mom's voice
> calls "Linus! That's no way to talk!" He responds, "Well, that's the
> way they talk on T.V.!! If they talk that way why can't I?" The mother
> replies "That's just one of those things I can't explain."
>
> I can't recall any other dialog from adults in the strip. Does anybody
> have any other examples?
>
I don't think I've seen this one on this thread - Linus telling Lucy
he knows what their parents will say ahead of time; he has Lucy ask
their mom why there's a Mother's Day and Father's Day but no
Children's Day, and tells her she'll answer 'Every day is Children's
Day' - Lucy does and mom does.
VMacek
Vince Macek
What do you know; I was just going to call the first Woodstock strips
the jump-the-shark moment - though it was more of a
step-over-the-shark-keep-going-steadily moment.
VMacek
Mike Peterson
"Vince Macek" <vmac...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:314d8f37.04042...@posting.google.com...
> jasps...@hotmail.com (Jim Strain) wrote in message
news:<7eee22a0.04042...@posting.google.com>...
>> >
> > freshest, most original -- and funniest -- but that doesn't mean that
> > all of the Snoopy strips were just junk or kid stuff. On the other
> > hand, I was never a fan of the Woodstock tangents.
> > . . . jim strain in san diego.
>
> What do you know; I was just going to call the first Woodstock strips
> the jump-the-shark moment - though it was more of a
> step-over-the-shark-keep-going-steadily moment.
>
Linus was petting birds, and Lucy was going nuts because that's not
possible. It was very nice tension between Lucy's absolute need to always be
right and Linus's unconscious, unintentional ability to play the (classical)
Fool.
From that to Snoopy and the bird-scouts was really a transition from a
character-driven comic strip to a whimsical daily clip for the refrigerator.
Nick Theodorakis
<ronn...@mycollar.ronniecat.com> wrote:
>Just out of curiosity, did anyone else originally see this thread and
>wonder why someone would be looking for examples of r-rated exchanges
>in "Peanuts"?
I suppose I could have used the term "grown-ups," but then I thought
everyone should be able to behave in an ... ummm ... adult manner.
Nick
--
Nick Theodorakis
nick_the...@hotmail.com
nicholas_theodorakis [at] urmc [dot] rochester [dot] edu
Silver Puss
Violet and Patty were eventually edged out of the strip, except
possibly for occasional nonspeaking appearances.
Shermy was also an early character who eventually disappeared. There
is a Mad Magazine parody where Shermy visits the old neighborhood to
discover that the other characters have changed for the worse. Among
other things, Charlie Brown has become a bigot and intimates that
Shermy must be Jewish.
Saint Stephen <sa...@stephen.com> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.04.21....@stephen.com>...
Saint Stephen
http://www.peanutscollectorclub.com/peantfaq.txt
If somebody already posted this, I missed it.
Heather M. Fieldhouse
(in message <T9WdnWvcsc5...@adelphia.com>):
> Agreed -- to a point. I think the strip began a major comeback in about the
> last year and a half of its existence.
I agree. When I started reading comics online every day (in the late
nineties), I added Peanuts to my comics page, out of nostalgia if nothing
else. I was surprised to find that it was better than I remembered. There
were some interesting and moving strips. The story line in which Rerun
desperately wants a dog (culminating in the Mutts-tribute art gallery strip)
was a standout. Another late Peanuts strip that sticks in my mind has
Charlie Brown lying in bed at night, saying, "Why me?" A voice from above
answers, "Why not?"
Peanuts seemed to become more subtle and introspective in its latter days,
and to have an almost bittersweet quality at times. I am really glad that I
tuned back in before the end.
Heather
Joseph Nebus
>On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 6:37:18 -0400, Mike Peterson wrote
>(in message <T9WdnWvcsc5...@adelphia.com>):
>> Agreed -- to a point. I think the strip began a major comeback in about the
>> last year and a half of its existence.
>I agree. When I started reading comics online every day (in the late
>nineties), I added Peanuts to my comics page, out of nostalgia if nothing
>else. I was surprised to find that it was better than I remembered. There
>were some interesting and moving strips.
Well before the last year and a half. Basically, the strip got
an energizing new burst of creativity 29 February 1988, when Schulz
abandoned the four-panel format. Although that allowed single-panel
strips (at which I always look warily; with only one panel there's no
progression of time, making stories almost impossibly slow, but it does
allow for lovely panel gags too) it probably had a hand in setting off
that new burst. For example (from the new ``It Was A Dark And Stormy
Night, Snoopy''), at Lucy's psychiatric booth:
Charlie Brown: I don't know ... I just feel lonely a lot of the
time.
Lucy: Why don't you try taking dance lessons?
Charlie Brown: Dance lessons? ... What if no one will dance with
me?
Lucy: Then you'll be a lonely person who knows how to dance.
If the art didn't give it away one couldn't say whether the joke
was from 1965, 75, 85, or 95 .. and only the psychiatric booth rules out
1955.
--
Joseph Nebus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jym Dyer
> They're wonderful. In a wholly different way though.
=v= Poor Rerun never did get his bicycle, though he was
able to borrow a dog.
<_Jym_>
Peter Zale
The distance had disappeared between them. It made me cry a bit to
think this is what Sparky was doing before he died.
Peter Zale
Helen, Sweetheart of the internet
Rick Stromoski
pete...@en.com wrote on 4/22/04 11:21 PM:
You big pouf...
Steven Rowe
periods of time (years maybe?) where the strip just wasnt as good as it used to
be = where the edginess had become cute, but to say that "as jump the shark"
implies that it just wasnt worth reading is not so.
on the other hand, doesnt "jump the shark" suggest that Happy Days actually at
one point was worth watching???? who came up with that idea?
steven rowe
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------
Don't forget to Delete "Unspam" if you wish to e- mail me.
join the FelixTheCat list at www.yahoogroups.com
.
Scott Hill
> On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:15:12 -0400, Invid Fan <in...@localnet.com>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <pan.2004.04.19....@stephen.com>, Saint Stephen
> ><sa...@stephen.com> wrote:
> >
> >> > In article <Jym.wzhdv...@econet.org>, Jym Dyer <j...@econet.org>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >> http://www.schulzmuseum.org/news.html
> >>
> >> Who in the heck wants to wait 12 and a half *years* to collect all the
> >> Peanuts strips. Are they nuts?
> >>
> >There's a company publishing the original Hardy Boy books in hardcover
> >(1920's version, not the re-written 60's stories many of us grew up
> >on). One volume a year. They've been at it for 14 years, so if you
> >start collecting now at least you can get those in a lump sum :)
>
> Any chance they are doing Tom Swift? Not the Tom Swift Juniors but
> the seniors where he got a roadster and other roaring twenties high
> tech.
The Gutenberg Project has a number of Tom Swift texts up.
http://www.gutenberg.net/cgi-bin/search/t9.cgi?author=appleton&title=swift
I think this is the incarnation you're talking about....
/
:@-) Scott
\
Vince Macek
> right, i dont think Peanuts ever jumped the shark - certainly there were
> periods of time (years maybe?) where the strip just wasnt as good as it used to
> be = where the edginess had become cute, but to say that "as jump the shark"
> implies that it just wasnt worth reading is not so.
>
> on the other hand, doesnt "jump the shark" suggest that Happy Days actually at
> one point was worth watching???? who came up with that idea?
>
> steven rowe
>
it morphed into this weird unfixed-in-time alternate universe.
Wish I had a Mister C t-shirt...
VMacek
Rilchiam
> > >
> And by contrast, the first bird strips that I recall were the ones where
> Linus was petting birds, and Lucy was going nuts because that's not
> possible. It was very nice tension between Lucy's absolute need to always be
> right and Linus's unconscious, unintentional ability to play the (classical)
> Fool.
Mmm...I didn't interpret it that way. What I saw was Lucy being
conventional and uptight, besides being her ususal controlling self,
and Linus being such a gentle, pure spiritual person that birds would
stand still and let him pat them.
There was also a Sunday strip, probably from around that time, wherein
Lucy was frantically and unsuccessfully trying to catch butterflies in
a net. After she gave up and stormed off, Saint Linus stood still and
held out his arms, and two butterflies fluttered down to perch on his
hands. I often thought there was a bit of St. Francis in Linus (Schulz
was also a devout Xian, but never crammed sermons down readers'
throats a la Johnny Hart).
> From that to Snoopy and the bird-scouts was really a transition from a
> character-driven comic strip to a whimsical daily clip for the refrigerator.
>
I still wouldn't call it "jumping the shark", but when Snoopy,
originally CB's sidekick, acquired a sidekick, and later a crew of
sidekicks, of his own, he clearly owned the strip.
There was an early-60s strip in which CB was shaking his fist in the
air and loudly proclaiming, "When I walk TWO MILES so my dog can
frolic, he'd better frolic!!" while a very agitated Snoopy
determinedly frolicked back and forth in front of him. Imagine the Joe
Cool-era Snoopy doing that.
(Oh, and they were Beagle Scouts.)
Mike Peterson
"Rilchiam" <Rilc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d086ef52.04042...@posting.google.com...
> "Mike Peterson" <pete...@SPAMnelliebly.org> wrote in message
news:<xcqdnddgq4t...@adelphia.com>...
> > > >
> > And by contrast, the first bird strips that I recall were the ones where
> > Linus was petting birds, and Lucy was going nuts because that's not
> > possible. It was very nice tension between Lucy's absolute need to
always be
> > right and Linus's unconscious, unintentional ability to play the
(classical)
> > Fool.
>
> Mmm...I didn't interpret it that way. What I saw was Lucy being
> conventional and uptight, besides being her ususal controlling self,
> and Linus being such a gentle, pure spiritual person that birds would
> stand still and let him pat them.
>
> There was also a Sunday strip, probably from around that time, wherein
> Lucy was frantically and unsuccessfully trying to catch butterflies in
> a net. After she gave up and stormed off, Saint Linus stood still and
> held out his arms, and two butterflies fluttered down to perch on his
> hands. I often thought there was a bit of St. Francis in Linus (Schulz
> was also a devout Xian, but never crammed sermons down readers'
> throats a la Johnny Hart).
A distinction without a difference -- "the Classical Fool" is exactly as you
describe him.
>
> > From that to Snoopy and the bird-scouts was really a transition from a
> > character-driven comic strip to a whimsical daily clip for the
refrigerator.
> >
>
> I still wouldn't call it "jumping the shark", but when Snoopy,
> originally CB's sidekick, acquired a sidekick, and later a crew of
> sidekicks, of his own, he clearly owned the strip.
>
> There was an early-60s strip in which CB was shaking his fist in the
> air and loudly proclaiming, "When I walk TWO MILES so my dog can
> frolic, he'd better frolic!!" while a very agitated Snoopy
> determinedly frolicked back and forth in front of him. Imagine the Joe
> Cool-era Snoopy doing that.
>
Heh. I have to drive five miles to a dog-friendly venue for my dogs. I've
been known to yell "Frolic, you bastards!"
Mostly for my own amusement, and in homage to that strip.
nocturneboy
> periods of time (years maybe?) where the strip just wasnt as good as it used to
> be = where the edginess had become cute, but to say that "as jump the shark"
> implies that it just wasnt worth reading is not so.
i agree with this statement - the strip was more inconsistent in the
1970s and some of the woodstock jokes got old (though i still love
them, probably because i read most of them when i was v. young), but
that was also around the time schulz started writing longer
continuities - charlie brown going to camp as "mr sack," all the great
peppermint patty stories, lucy kicking linus out of the house, charlie
brown running away from home and becoming manager of the "goose eggs."
to dismiss all this great stuff just because of joe cool and spike
seems incredibly short-sighted to me.
Saint Stephen
> to dismiss all this great stuff just because of joe cool and spike
> seems incredibly short-sighted to me.
I liked Woodstock stories, Joe Cool, and Spike. I especially liked
Woodstock, cause he's y'know, doing his own thing. I didn't find them
saccharine.
Michael G. Koerner
I found it interesting when Snoopy learned that his birthplace (the
'Daisy Hill Puppy Farm') had become the site of a six story parking ramp.
I also can't forget Snoopy the Lawyer in the latter years of the strip.
One of that line that stands out was from the final week of the strip's
original dailys when Snoopy came across Woodstock with his nest in a
collapsed tree, saying "SO AFTER YOU BUILT YOUR NEST IN THIS TREE, THE
TREE FELL DOWN..". He then left, returning with his lawyers' cap,
bowtie and briefcase to repeat the exact same words.
--
___________________________________________ ____ _______________
Regards, | |\ ____
| | | | |\
Michael G. Koerner May they | | | | | | rise again!
Appleton, Wisconsin USA | | | | | |
___________________________________________ | | | | | | _______________
Peter Zale
John Duncan Yoyo
wrote:
Yep thanks. These seem pretty short for the size of the books but I
imagine that the print and illustrations padded it out nicely.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
The print maybe, but iirc, there was only one illustration, the 'frontispiece'
(sp?), which was glossy. I'll have to dig some of mine out and check.
To my mind, the early ones were the best. I remember one in pre-1917 Russia,
dealing with the Nilhists, and earnestly preaching that _that_ wasn't
_the answer_.
Ted
ronniecat
"Michael G. Koerner" <mgk...@dataex.com> wrote in message
news:4089C70D...@dataex.com...
> I found it interesting when Snoopy learned that his birthplace (the
> 'Daisy Hill Puppy Farm') had become the site of a six story parking ramp.
Somebody (Lucy? Peppermint Patty?) used to consistently refer to it as the
'Poppy Hill Daisy Farm', much to Snoopy's annoyance.
ronnie
Jym Dyer
> (the 'Daisy Hill Puppy Farm') had become the site of a six
> story parking ramp.
"You stupid people! You're parking on my memories!"