Why Are There No Blacks in Calvin and Hobbes?
Mark Pitcavage
suddenly struck me that I have not seen a single character in any of the
strips who is not Caucasian. This seems very unusual; even comic strips that
have no black (or other minority) characters in them will usually at least
have one turn up every now and then in a single strip. The exceptions are
usually the very old strips.
Why are there no blacks in Calvin and Hobbes?
Mark Pitcavage History Department, The Ohio State University
"I shall cheerfully bear the reproach of having descended below the dignity
of history." --Lord Macaulay.
SooYLee
>Why are there no blacks in Calvin and Hobbes?
Well, given the segregated housing pattern in U.S., maybe Calvin lives in
a small to medium-sized town...say in Midwest.
Matthew Akira Klippenstein
SooYLee (soo...@aol.com) wrote:
You're not trying to enforce some political correctness, are you?
Now that you mention it, I notice that the characters are all
white-bread, but it never seemed relevant. Are there, say, recurrent black
characters in B.C. or Garfield? Furthermore, all the supporting
characters (except Hobbes) alienate Calvin, or are alienated by him.
Watterson would open a can of worms if Calvin called a black doctor a
quack or kept giving a black babysitter a hard time, wouldn't he?
Well, I hope I'm not taking this too seriously (no flames please!)
--------------------------
Matthew Akira Klippenstein
Billfish
and that he grew up before desegregation and that his unconscious doesn't
have many Blacks in it. Or ones that we wouldn't want to see (vide Crumb).
My stand would be that the remedy is to promote good African-American
themed strips that can do this naturally. The only one that qualifies for
me is Jumpstart.
Mark T Pitcavage
GAGE A. ANDERSON <ANDERSONGA98%CS...@cadetmail.usafa.af.mil> wrote:
>soo...@aol.com (SooYLee) wrote:
>
>>mpit...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark Pitcavage) wrote:
>
>>>Why are there no blacks in Calvin and Hobbes?
>
>>Well, given the segregated housing pattern in U.S., maybe Calvin lives in
>>a small to medium-sized town...say in Midwest.
>
>trails on the sides of mountains like Calvin did. I'm thinking he
>must live in the Rockies. . .or Alps.
>
There are no buckeyes in the Rockies.
Philip Unwin
No, that's not right. We know that Watterson is a pretty open-minded human
being, which doesn't necessarily mean he would not exclude blacks, but its
probable. Whoever pointed out that its due to the fact that Calvin lives in
a very isolated world is probably right. Calvin interacts with Hobbes, his
parents, Susie Derkins, Ms. Wormwood, Rosalyn, Moe and Mr. Spittle. That's
it. Only his interaction with Hobbes is by choice. He closes off his world
to anyone but Hobbes, if its possible.
--
----Philip Unwin_...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu__University of Rochester----
| |
| "Nice guys finish last, and apparently, I'm no exception." -P.Unwin |
|__________________________________________________________________________|
Laura Johnson
: I've been rereading all the Calvin and Hobbes anthologies recently and it
: strips who is not Caucasian. This seems very unusual; even comic strips that
: have no black (or other minority) characters in them will usually at least
: have one turn up every now and then in a single strip. The exceptions are
: usually the very old strips.
: Why are there no blacks in Calvin and Hobbes?
There aren't very many *characters* in C&H -- Watterson doesn't normally
draw a classroom or playground full of kids, for instance; he focuses in
on the two or three people the strip is actually about. There are far
fewer people *ever* depicted in C&H than in, say, Peanuts.
When was the last time a non-"regular" turned up in C&H? (Why are there
no black regulars? -- well, if you take a white kid in a Midwestern town,
and draw the six or so people closest to him, they probably would all be
white.)
--
Laura Johnson | A modern U.S. Navy cruiser now requires
lau...@fc.hp.com | 26 tons of manuals. This is enough to
Hewlett Packard NSMD | affect the vessel's performance.
Ft. Collins, CO | - David Mankins
Stephen Graham
I spent part of my childhood in Jefferson, Ohio. While we didn't have
mountains, the cemetary we used for sledding had a fairly significant
drop in elevation, perhaps as much as 200 feet. To a small child, that's
almost a mountain.
As for the lack of minorities combined with Dad working in a skyscraper,
might I suggest that Calvin lives in a small town within commuting
distance of a major city? Once you get 30 minutes outside of a city in
the Midwest, minorities are scarce. It's gotten more diverse since the
1960's, but it's still pretty whitebread.
--
Stephen Graham
gra...@ee.washington.edu
gra...@cs.washington.edu uw-beaver!june!graham
Ray Dawson
>>My stand would be that the remedy is to promote good African-American
>>themed strips that can do this naturally. The only one that qualifies for
>>me is Jumpstart.
I also like Herb and Jamaal. Another good strip focusing on African
American community & characters.
Ray
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
* You know, I think we should put some mountains here. * *
* Otherwise, what are the characters going to fall off of? * CARPE *
* And what about stairs? * NOCTEM *
* --- "Big Science" Laurie Anderson * *
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Galloway
Mark T Pitcavage <mpit...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>I know nothing of Watterson's background, but I figure that if -Mort Walker-
>can have a -recurring- black character, even Watterson can display one every
>now and then.
Oh, I think he displays one in almost every strip.
After all, aren't tigers only native to India and Africa? :-)
Somewhat more seriously, let's count the number of characters in C&H: Calvin,
Hobbes, Mom, Dad, Suzy, Moe, Wormwood, Rosalyn, Calvin's uncle, the
principal. Other than the sequence with Calvin trying to play baseball with a
team, I can't think of any more than these ten (OK, 11. I just recalled
Mr. Bun). And Calvin's uncle was so far a one shot. And fully five of these
had to be caucasian (or stuffed) once Watterson set up Calvin as caucasian and
not from a mixed-race family. While it'd probably be nice for there to be more
racial diversity (and why blacks in particular? Why not asians? Or Indians
(sub-continent variety)? Or hispanics? Or Australians, who are criminally
underrepresented in comic strips? :-)), I can live with a whopping four
characters happening to be caucasian, even though any of them could just
as easily be any race.
"I realised that the purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor
reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an
intimidating and inpenetrable fog! Want to see my book report?"
"The Dynamics of Interbeing and Monological Imperatives in 'Dick and Jane' : A
Study in Psychic Transrelational Modes."
"Academia, here I come!" --Calvin & Hobbes
tyg t...@hq.ileaf.com
Daniel A. Hartung
mpit...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark Pitcavage) wrote:
>I've been rereading all the Calvin and Hobbes anthologies recently and it
>suddenly struck me that I have not seen a single character in any of the
>strips who is not Caucasian. This seems very unusual; even comic strips that
>have no black (or other minority) characters in them will usually at least
>have one turn up every now and then in a single strip. The exceptions are
>usually the very old strips.
>
>Why are there no blacks in Calvin and Hobbes?
This is a tad harsh. First of all, Calvin is in an *extremely*
constricted character universe compared to some other comics; even
those that focus on a very restricted set tend to have all sorts
of "extras" in the background, e.g. at a store or school or whatever.
Calvin never meets anyone new, it seems, and has no interaction with
anyone at school besides Susie, the bully, Miss Wormwood, and the
principal.
Second, I do recall a black man drawn in distinctly Wattersonian style
conversing with Calvin's dad at least once (a neighbor or coworker?),
so blacks are not wholly excised from his universe.
--
Daniel A. Hartung * "What took you so long?"
dhar...@mcs.com * "An angry mob led by murderous guys
www.mcs.net/~dhartung/ * with torches...."
* "Don't let it happen again! -- Legend
Mark T Pitcavage
>mpit...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark Pitcavage) wrote:
>
>
>a small to medium-sized town...say in Midwest.
Clearly, Calvin lives in the midwest--we know he lives near an "e" in the term
"United States" as it might be displayed on a map, and furthermore, he finds a
buckeye at one point.
However, he does not live in a small town. We have seen plenty of large
city-scapes showing where his father works, with skyscrapers etc.
Mark T Pitcavage
GAGE A. ANDERSON <ANDERSONGA98%CS...@cadetmail.usafa.af.mil> wrote:
>mpit...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark Pitcavage) wrote:
>
>>Why are there no blacks in Calvin and Hobbes?
>
>my town.
>
>My guess is that Bill Watterson, as he resists the pressures of
>endorsing C&H paraphenalia, also resists the social pressures of
>including every minority in his strip so that no one is offended.
>
>
Calvin lives in a city, not a town; the notion that there are "no blacks" in it
is at best strange.
Also strange is the notion that the only reason one would include a minority
group in a comic strip is so that no one would be offended. There are millions
and millions of African-Americans in this country, reason enough right there to
represent them every now and then, simply because they exist. It is more than
passing strange that Watterson has completely excluded them.
Rich Adams
: soo...@aol.com (SooYLee) wrote:
:
: >mpit...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark Pitcavage) wrote:
:
: >>Why are there no blacks in Calvin and Hobbes?
: >Well, given the segregated housing pattern in U.S., maybe Calvin lives in
: >a small to medium-sized town...say in Midwest.
: Oh yeah? I lived in the Midwest, and I never found any sledding/wagon
: trails on the sides of mountains like Calvin did. I'm thinking he
: must live in the Rockies. . .or Alps.
:
: ***************************************************************************
: /|/|/| "HAPPINESS IS BEING FAMOUS FOR YOUR FINANCIAL
: | | | / ABILITY TO INDULGE IN EVERY KIND OF EXCESS.
: \ - THE PART I THINK I'D LIKE BEST IS CRUSHING
: - O O | PEOPLE WHO GET IN MY WAY."--Calvin
: ( ) |)
: \ \___//
: \____/
: /--\ Gage A. Anderson
: |-|--| Cadet, USAF Academy
: |-|--|
: ***************************************************************************
From Bill Watterson's interview in Honk #2, Jan. 1987; His family moved
to Chagrin Falls, Ohion when he was 6. He Attended 4 years at Kenyon
College in Gambier, Ohio and worked a while as an editorial cartoonist at
the Cincinatti Post.
Since I've been to about every corner of Ohio here's my topographical
rundown: Chagrin Falls is about 15 miles east-southeast of Cleveland in
a somewhat hilly area, with a few canyons (yes, canyons) nearby. I-80
which runs to the south crosses a couple canyons east of Cleveland and
south of Chagrin Falls. One canyon is at least 500 feet from ridge to
basin with spectacular vistas. Gambier is about the center of Ohio, 15
miles northeast of Columbus and relatively flat.
I would gather Calvin lives in a fictional area most similar to Chagrin
Falls, with Cleveland being the metropolis where his father works. I
will concede however, Columbus and Cinci could be influences for the city
as well.
--
~ Bleeding on the cutting edge of technology with Win 95
Mark Rosenfelder
Mark Pitcavage <mpit...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>I've been rereading all the Calvin and Hobbes anthologies recently and it
>suddenly struck me that I have not seen a single character in any of the
>strips who is not Caucasian.
Well, there's Hobbes.
Mark Stellmack
->
->There are still plenty of people in his world, including his uncle, a number of
->schoolmates, his doctor, etc. Yet not even a single schoolmate is ever black.
-----------------------
I went to a Catholic grade school in Chicago. No black students during my
entire eight-year run. I went to a Catholic high school literally across the
street from Chicago in a nearby suburb. In my four-year stint there, there was
one black student out of the 1000 or so students who attended the school in any
given year. It's not inconceivable for Calvin's situation to occur even in a
large city.
No mystery here. No charges of racism against the artist. Perhaps Calvin
lives in a small town and his father commutes some distance to the big city.
There are plenty of areas within commuting distance of Chicago that could pass
for the setting of Calvin and Hobbes. Except for the fact that geographically
the Chicago area is flatter than...oh, maybe the humor in "Cathy".
John Burke
John Taber
On 18 Sep 1995, Mark T Pitcavage wrote:
> In article <43j0cb$i...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
> Billfish <bill...@aol.com> wrote:
> >I would say that Watterson is dedicated to unconsious, artistic creation,
> >and that he grew up before desegregation and that his unconscious doesn't
> >have many Blacks in it. Or ones that we wouldn't want to see (vide Crumb).
> >My stand would be that the remedy is to promote good African-American
> >themed strips that can do this naturally. The only one that qualifies for
> >me is Jumpstart.
>
> I know nothing of Watterson's background, but I figure that if -Mort Walker-
> can have a -recurring- black character, even Watterson can display one every
> now and then.
>
But Beetle Bailey has many more characters than C & H. So do most
strips; For Better or for Worse doesn't have any black characters
either. The only characters we see at all are Calvin, Hobbes, Calvin's
parents, teacher, principal, and Susie Derkins.
Colin Campbell
Why are there no blacks in Garfield?
Why are there no blacks in Mutts?
Why are there no blacks in Overboard?
Why are there no blacks in Blondie?
Why are there no blacks in Mr. Boffo?
Why are there no blacks in Family Circus?
Why are there no blacks in Hagar the Horrible?
Why are there no blacks in Dennis the Menace?
Why are there no blacks in The Fusco Brothers?
Why are there no blacks in The Wizard of Id?
Why single out Calvin and Hobbes?
Rich Adams
: In article <43junn$l...@usafa2.usafa.af.mil>,
: GAGE A. ANDERSON <ANDERSONGA98%CS...@cadetmail.usafa.af.mil> wrote:
: >mpit...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark Pitcavage) wrote:
: >
: >
: >Maybe there are no blacks in Calvin's town. There were only three in
: >my town.
: >
: >My guess is that Bill Watterson, as he resists the pressures of
: >endorsing C&H paraphenalia, also resists the social pressures of
: >including every minority in his strip so that no one is offended.
: >
: >
:
: Calvin lives in a city, not a town; the notion that there are "no blacks" in it
: is at best strange.
:
: Also strange is the notion that the only reason one would include a minority
: group in a comic strip is so that no one would be offended. There are millions
: and millions of African-Americans in this country, reason enough right there to
: represent them every now and then, simply because they exist. It is more than
: passing strange that Watterson has completely excluded them.
Though this strays a bit from the C&H origins of this thread I'd like to
point out an observation I once read on af/am characters in strips.
Usually they are token characters, in some sense of diversity, but not of
substance. They are seen as playing straight characters to the witty main
characters.
The difference is, lately, I've seen three strips with af/ams as the main
characters: Jump Start, Curtis, and Herb and Jamaal. Good strips, all of
them. I especially get a kick out of the Rap stars Curtis is always
listening to. A week or so back he's in a music shop talking to someone
and in the background are signs "Music to annoy parents" and "Music to play
extremely loud" Bill Amend is the only other artist I see use the
background gag very much, and I love it, "CARTOONIST DUMPS CINDY
CRAWFORD I'll never love again, sobs supermodel"
Generally, I just don't get uptight about it, but the only strip I ever
thought really prostituted ethnic groups was Wee Pals. It was always
lacking in substance, quoting some wonderful historical figure, or
painting some unrealistic pretty picture of innercity life. I read the
funnies because I expect to find something amusing, even in the worst of
times and places we find something to laugh about later and the unforced
surprise is what I feel really makes or breaks a strip.
One of the funniest strips I've ever snipped from a paper was a C&H back
in 1986. In the strip Calvin is unrolling toilet paper into the toilet
and flushing it while he and Hobbes roll on the floor laughing. The
parents are sitting downstairs and hear FLUSH, and the mother says
something like, "We don't want to know what he's doing, do we?" To which
the father replies, "No, let's go see." It made me laugh because I used
to do this as a kid! :-)
Rich
Keith C. Ivey
>There are still plenty of people in his world, including his uncle, a number of
>schoolmates, his doctor, etc. Yet not even a single schoolmate is ever black.
Very few schoolmates are shown. Would you be happier if, say,
the bully were black? Somehow I doubt it.
--Keith C. Ivey <kci...@cpcug.org>
Washington, DC
Umair Yousufi
>>constricted character universe compared to some other comics; even
>>those that focus on a very restricted set tend to have all sorts
>>of "extras" in the background, e.g. at a store or school or whatever.
>>Calvin never meets anyone new, it seems, and has no interaction with
>>anyone at school besides Susie, the bully, Miss Wormwood, and the
>>principal.
>
>judgments, merely stated an observation.
>While I fully realize that the universe of Calvin and Hobbes is a
>constricted one, there are nevertheless numerous opportunities to display
>African-Americans, should Watterson be so inclined.
True. But (it's me again) why? Suppose that instead of drawing C&H as
they are now, Watterson decided to draw them as African Americans. How
would this effect the comic? Would the humor be any more or any less
funny? Would Hobbes' pounces be any different now that he was pouncing a
6-year old African-American kid? The comic, would (assuming a
superficial change of looks) be the same. The whole race issue is
irrelevant.
Ok. Now suppose _every_ character (minor to major) was also
African-American. Would the addition of a white character make any
change in the overall feel of the strip? Or, once again, would it leave
the strip exactly the same? I really don't see why you need a "recurring
black character" to enjoy the strip.
>For instance, Calvin's fellow students are fairly frequently displayed; I
>don't see why Watterson doesn't once in a blue moon make one of them
>black.
Aaargh. This change would be completely trivial. Only a person looking
through his books _looking_ for this _specific_ thing would notice.
(Although _I_ did notice, because I've read each of Watterson's books at
*least* 100 times (execpt for the new one)).
>
>
>>Second, I do recall a black man drawn in distinctly Wattersonian style
>>conversing with Calvin's dad at least once (a neighbor or coworker?),
>>so blacks are not wholly excised from his universe.
>>
>
>Can you tell me the anthology this appears in? I do not recall this strip and
>think you may be misremembering it.
I dunno. Misremembered or not, this last line seems to indicate a somewhat
persecutorial tone.
--
Umair Yousufi
Umair Yousufi
>>
>>>Why are there no blacks in Calvin and Hobbes?
>>
>>my town.
>>
>>My guess is that Bill Watterson, as he resists the pressures of
>>endorsing C&H paraphenalia, also resists the social pressures of
>>including every minority in his strip so that no one is offended.
>>
>>
>
>Calvin lives in a city, not a town; the notion that there are "no blacks" in it
>is at best strange.
>
>Also strange is the notion that the only reason one would include a minority
>group in a comic strip is so that no one would be offended. There are millions
>and millions of African-Americans in this country, reason enough right there to
>represent them every now and then, simply because they exist.
And there exist millions and millions of Christians in the US and
Watterson only seems to acknowledge that just once a year during the
Christmas time strips. There exist millions of Hispanics, Asians, and
yadda yadda blah blah in the world that Watterson chose to ignore.
Instead, he chose intelligent story lines, witty dialog, _beautiful,
beautiful_ artwork, and memorable characters to concentrate on.
Apparently, he did this to frustrate people like you who pay attention
to the trivialities of the strip. Anyway, I'm glad he's writing the strip
and not you.
>It is more than passing strange that Watterson has completely excluded
>them.
No. It is more than "passing strange" that people will let something
like this prevent them from enjoying the strip.
--
Umair Yousufi
Umair Yousufi
>>mpit...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark Pitcavage) wrote:
>>
>>>Why are there no blacks in Calvin and Hobbes?
>>
>>a small to medium-sized town...say in Midwest.
>
>
>"United States" as it might be displayed on a map, and furthermore, he finds a
>buckeye at one point.
Wrong. Completely. Calvin does not live in the midwest. Calvin lives in
a city where the backyards are huge, the summers are warm, snow piles up
regularly in the winter, and the hills (used with both wagons and
tobaggans) are steep; Calvin does not live in the Midwest. He lives in an
ideal city for a child to live in. Why do you think Watterson has never
mentioned a city?
True, you could bring up the fact that Hobbes says that they live near the
letter "e," in the word "States," indicating on some map that perhaps
they live in the midwest. Or you could bring up the C&H where Calvin is
on a slide and Watterson shows how high Calvin believes the slide is.
From Calvin's near orbital height, you can see the slide seems to
terminate somewhere in the eastern U.S. Better yet, you could dig
through C&H and find more "can't see the forest for the trees" facts that
are completely irrelevant.
What's your point? I seem to be asking this basic question a lot, but tell
me: How would the city possibly add or detract from the strip? It
wouldn't. These "facts" you are searching for do nothing but detract
from the enjoyment of the strip. IMO, you need to stop reading C&H if you
spend all your time wondering about things like these.
--
Umair
Greg Diamond
Matthew Akira Klippenstein <aki...@unixg.ubc.ca> wrote:
>: mpit...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark Pitcavage) wrote:
>: >Why are there no blacks in Calvin and Hobbes?
Someone asks a legitimate question, and immediately it's "you're not
going to be PC, are you?" Makes one wonder where the suppression of free
exchange comes from.
--
<><><> "If fifty million people "The weak have one weapon --
Greg<> say a foolish thing, it the errors of those who
<>/\<> is still a foolish thing." think they are strong."
<>\/<> -- Anatole France -- Georges Bidault
Greg Diamond
>trails on the sides of mountains like Calvin did. I'm thinking he
>must live in the Rockies. . .or Alps.
Midwestern places with reasonable hilliness include Iowa City,
Pittsburgh, the Fox River valley west of Chicago, east central Ohio, and
that's just the ones I'm pretty familiar with.
I do think that C&H is going to have to add a character or two in a while
to keep from getting stale. I look forward to Calvin's being tested for
Attention Deficit Disorder, for example.
System Janitor
>Why are there no blacks in Calvin and Hobbes?
>can have a -recurring- black character, even Watterson can display one every
>now and then.
No, I'm not following you...
Why do you wonder this? Is there a reason to put a black character
in Calvin and Hobbes, other than because there's one in Beetle Baily?
Why isn't Calvin himself black? Should he be?
-Mike
Umair Yousufi
>have no black (or other minority) characters in them will usually at least
>have one turn up every now and then in a single strip. The exceptions are
>usually the very old strips.
>
Why does it matter? Would having blacks effect the humor of strip?
Would it add anything? IMO, no. The issue is irrelevant. The strip
is effective and funny regardless. I skimmed through the replies to your
post and one or two asked, "Why not have a black doctor or babysitter?"
My response to that, once again, is why? How does this effect Calvin?
Would having bit minority parts make all strips funnier than before?
--
Umair Yousufi
zombie
>group in a comic strip is so that no one would be offended. There are millions
>and millions of African-Americans in this country, reason enough right there to
Of the 11 characters in Calvin's world, 5 of them must be white or stuffed
(thanks tyg). Blacks are what, 10% (a guess) of the US population? If
one of the 6 were black, wouldn't that mess up the percentages? =8^)
Anyway, if the cast of characters is fixed, which it is, how do you
introduce characters of *any* race "now and then"?
zombie
--
# Lois & Clark -----: http://www.webcom.com/~lnc/index.html ------ #
# The Mutant Page --: http://www.santarosa.edu/~sthoemke/x.html -- #
# Comics (Very Cool): http://www.digimark.net/wraith/comix.html -- #
# zom...@netcom.com # ZOMBIE on GEnie # zom...@redeye.ebay.sun.com #
Mark Pitcavage
>In article <43k1v2$m...@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>,
>mpit...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark T Pitcavage) wrote:
>>Also strange is the notion that the only reason one would include a minority
>>group in a comic strip is so that no one would be offended. There are millions
>>and millions of African-Americans in this country, reason enough right there to
>>represent them every now and then, simply because they exist. It is more than
>>passing strange that Watterson has completely excluded them.
>Of the 11 characters in Calvin's world, 5 of them must be white or stuffed
>(thanks tyg). Blacks are what, 10% (a guess) of the US population? If
>one of the 6 were black, wouldn't that mess up the percentages? =8^)
>Anyway, if the cast of characters is fixed, which it is, how do you
>introduce characters of *any* race "now and then"?
Look at the back of "Homicidal Psycho Jungle Cat", or whatever that one is
called. There are five students in addition to Calvin right there. Why
couldn't one of them have been black? In every single instance where there
could have been a black figure drawn, Watterson chose to leave them out.
Every single one.
Mark Pitcavage History Department, The Ohio State University
"I shall cheerfully bear the reproach of having descended below the dignity
of history." --Lord Macaulay.
Rolf Wilson
Nope, not a single black - not even in the classroom scene with 11 other
students.
p100, "Attack of the Deranged Mutant Killer Monster SNOW GOONS"
"Calvin suddenly realized the world has no hue, value, or chroma!"
"Have the photoreceptors in Calvin's eyes stopped working properly, or
has the fundamental nature of light changed?"
"Perhaps some strange nuclear or chemical reaction on the sun has caused
electromagnetic radiation to defy separation into a spectrum!"
"Maybe objects no longer reflect certain wavelenghts! Whatever the cause,
it's clear to Calvin that there's no point in discussing things with
his dad!"
DAD: "The problem is, you see everything in terms of black and white."
"SOMETIMES THAT'S THE WAY THINGS ARE!"
--
Rolf Wilson (ro...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu)
GAGE A. ANDERSON
>In article <43jus8$l...@usafa2.usafa.af.mil>,
>GAGE A. ANDERSON <ANDERSONGA98%CS...@cadetmail.usafa.af.mil> wrote:
>>soo...@aol.com (SooYLee) wrote:
>>
>>>mpit...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark Pitcavage) wrote:
>>
>>>>Why are there no blacks in Calvin and Hobbes?
>>
>>>Well, given the segregated housing pattern in U.S., maybe Calvin lives in
>>>a small to medium-sized town...say in Midwest.
>>
>>Oh yeah? I lived in the Midwest, and I never found any sledding/wagon
>>trails on the sides of mountains like Calvin did. I'm thinking he
>>must live in the Rockies. . .or Alps.
>>
>There are no buckeyes in the Rockies.
Maybe it got lost.
Matt Pritchard
: trails on the sides of mountains like Calvin did. I'm thinking he
: must live in the Rockies. . .or Alps.
Got a point there... The higest point for 20 miles around (where I grew
up) was the artificall hill built around the community (Lion's Club)
pool. Other than that, the land varied by less than 6 feet in altitude
for the southern half of the county. The fact we were on a pinnensula on
the Great lakes might have influenced this...
--
-Matt P
_______________________________________________________________________________
Matt Pritchard | Antique Computer & Game System Collector
matt...@netcom.com | Assembly Language Programming Guru
via Dallas, Tx dialup | Article Writer/Repressed Game Programmer
Mark T Pitcavage
>>> Why are there no blacks in Family Circus?
>
>>There have been a number of them. In fact, there was one in one of the
>>last two Sunday strips.
>
>And, in fact, one of them wears a shirt that says "Morrie" (after the
>creator of "WEE PALS")
>
>>> Why are there no blacks in Dennis the Menace?
>
>>Older strip mentality.
>
>Oh, you little know what a can of worms you have touched on! Ketcham did
>draw a panel with a little black boy once (Dennis: "I'm having a race
>problem with Stewart. He can run faster'n me."). Only, Kethcam drew
>Stewart as one of those little rubber dolls called "Gollywogs," with round
>eyes and big white lips. At the time Ketcham was living in Switzerland and
>had no anticipation of the overwhelming negative reaction he got. He tried
>to make up for it later with another cartoon. Dennis: "James is different
>from me... He's left handed." James was drawn just like a white kid but
>with extra shading. After that Ketcham decided to let race alone.
That's really interesting! I had no idea....
Mark T Pitcavage
>Before, Mark T Pitcavage said...
>
>>However, he does not live in a small town. We have seen plenty of large
>>city-scapes showing where his father works, with skyscrapers etc.
>
>There are MANY small towns that are within commuting distance (30 - 60
>minutes) of medium to large cities.
>
>But, it was always my impression that he lived in a suburb. Now, many suburbs
>are, either by choice or happenstance, segregated.
>
>Now, on to the larger issue, why are there no blacks. Well, quite simply, you
>write what you know. Most likely Mr. Watterson knows few blacks and feels
>more comforatble writing about white characters. Why is there a problem
>in that? Must we bus 'Curtis' over to C&H? Listen, Mark, it's just a comic,
>take it easy!!
>
Me take it easy? I've been pointing out a simple fact; it is a lot of other
people who have been falling all over themselves to rationalize or justify
it...
The notion that "Watterson knows few blacks and feels more comfortable writing
about white characters" has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he
won't even -draw- any, not even as insignificant background characters who
don't even speak.
Mark T Pitcavage
Well, you know, humor isn't the only quality possessed by a comic strip.
My interest is not in making Calvin and Hobbes funnier by having W. include
"bit minority" parts. I'm more interested in exploring why it is that W. has
apparently made it a policy -not- to have any.
Mark T Pitcavage
Umair Yousufi <you...@ucsub.colorado.edu> wrote:
>In article <43jprq$l...@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>,
>>Billfish <bill...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>I would say that Watterson is dedicated to unconsious, artistic creation,
>>>and that he grew up before desegregation and that his unconscious doesn't
>>>have many Blacks in it. Or ones that we wouldn't want to see (vide Crumb).
>>>My stand would be that the remedy is to promote good African-American
>>>themed strips that can do this naturally. The only one that qualifies for
>>>me is Jumpstart.
>>
>>
>>
>>can have a -recurring- black character, even Watterson can display one every
>>now and then.
>
>anything? Why do you need a "recurring black character" to justify your
>enjoyment of the strip? Would the dialog or plot change at all, or would
>the change be superficial?
Again, if you actually read my post, you will see that I am NOT saying that C&H
should have a recurring black character. You have missed the point entirely.
The point was that if even Mort Walker could have a -recurring- black
character, then it would seem not at all unreasonable that Watterson might
-once- include even as a nonspeaking insignificant background figure someone
who is not white. Why is Calvin's world a completely white world?
>You apparently don't agree with me on the fact that such details are
>irrelevant. I think they are completely irrelevant. They in no way could
>make the strip any better. I think the strip is easily the funniest, most
>creative, and well drawn strip I have _ever_ seen. Is this effected by
>the fact that I see no one of my race in C&H? No. No. And, for an
>encore, No.
The strip is funny. Is this at issue? No. So stop bringing it up.
Mark T Pitcavage
Umair Yousufi <you...@ucsub.colorado.edu> wrote:
>Mark T Pitcavage <mpit...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>constricted character universe compared to some other comics; even
>>>those that focus on a very restricted set tend to have all sorts
>>>of "extras" in the background, e.g. at a store or school or whatever.
>>>Calvin never meets anyone new, it seems, and has no interaction with
>>>anyone at school besides Susie, the bully, Miss Wormwood, and the
>>>principal.
>>
>>First, let me say that I do not think it harsh. I have made no value
>>judgments, merely stated an observation.
>
>
>>While I fully realize that the universe of Calvin and Hobbes is a
>>constricted one, there are nevertheless numerous opportunities to display
>>African-Americans, should Watterson be so inclined.
>
>True. But (it's me again) why? Suppose that instead of drawing C&H as
>they are now, Watterson decided to draw them as African Americans. How
>would this effect the comic? Would the humor be any more or any less
>funny? Would Hobbes' pounces be any different now that he was pouncing a
>6-year old African-American kid? The comic, would (assuming a
>superficial change of looks) be the same. The whole race issue is
>irrelevant.
>
>Ok. Now suppose _every_ character (minor to major) was also
>African-American. Would the addition of a white character make any
>change in the overall feel of the strip? Or, once again, would it leave
>black character" to enjoy the strip.
>
>
>>For instance, Calvin's fellow students are fairly frequently displayed; I
>>don't see why Watterson doesn't once in a blue moon make one of them
>>black.
>
>Aaargh. This change would be completely trivial. Only a person looking
>through his books _looking_ for this _specific_ thing would notice.
>(Although _I_ did notice, because I've read each of Watterson's books at
>*least* 100 times (execpt for the new one)).
>
>>
>>
>>>Second, I do recall a black man drawn in distinctly Wattersonian style
>>>conversing with Calvin's dad at least once (a neighbor or coworker?),
>>>so blacks are not wholly excised from his universe.
>>>
>>
>>Can you tell me the anthology this appears in? I do not recall this strip an
d
>>think you may be misremembering it.
>
>I dunno. Misremembered or not, this last line seems to indicate a somewhat
>persecutorial tone.
The last line indicates that I just finished rereading all the anthologies, had
them fresh in my mind, and did not remember such a strip.
And I notice once more you misstate my comments so that it sounds as if I am
demanding a recurring role for a black character in Calvin and Hobbes. Never
have I said anything of the sort.
Mark T Pitcavage
Umair Yousufi <you...@ucsub.colorado.edu> wrote:
>Mark T Pitcavage <mpit...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Why are there no blacks in Calvin and Hobbes?
>>>
>>>my town.
>>>
>>>My guess is that Bill Watterson, as he resists the pressures of
>>>endorsing C&H paraphenalia, also resists the social pressures of
>>>including every minority in his strip so that no one is offended.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Calvin lives in a city, not a town; the notion that there are "no blacks" in
it
>>is at best strange.
>>
>>group in a comic strip is so that no one would be offended. There are millio
ns
>>and millions of African-Americans in this country, reason enough right there
to
>>represent them every now and then, simply because they exist.
>
>Watterson only seems to acknowledge that just once a year during the
>Christmas time strips. There exist millions of Hispanics, Asians, and
>yadda yadda blah blah in the world that Watterson chose to ignore.
>
>Instead, he chose intelligent story lines, witty dialog, _beautiful,
>beautiful_ artwork, and memorable characters to concentrate on.
>Apparently, he did this to frustrate people like you who pay attention
>to the trivialities of the strip. Anyway, I'm glad he's writing the strip
>and not you.
>
>>them.
>
>like this prevent them from enjoying the strip.
>
It is a shame that you are so defensive about strips that you like that you are
unable to engage in any discussion about them except to praise them. I like
C&H, I enjoy reading it (why do you think I own all the anthologies).
Nevertheless, and apparently unlike yourself, I do not feel constrained to
avoid all rational thought and to refuse to analyze the strip.
Mark Pitcavage
>mpit...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark T Pitcavage) wrote:
>>There are still plenty of people in his world, including his uncle, a number of
>>schoolmates, his doctor, etc. Yet not even a single schoolmate is ever black.
>Very few schoolmates are shown. Would you be happier if, say,
>the bully were black? Somehow I doubt it.
Pfff. Enough schoolmates are shown that -one- of them, even -once- could be
black. There is a complete and total absence in Calvin and Hobbes.
Mark Pitcavage
>On 18 Sep 1995, Mark T Pitcavage wrote:
>> In article <43j0cb$i...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
>> Billfish <bill...@aol.com> wrote:
>> >I would say that Watterson is dedicated to unconsious, artistic creation,
>> >and that he grew up before desegregation and that his unconscious doesn't
>> >have many Blacks in it. Or ones that we wouldn't want to see (vide Crumb).
>> >My stand would be that the remedy is to promote good African-American
>> >themed strips that can do this naturally. The only one that qualifies for
>> >me is Jumpstart.
>>
>> I know nothing of Watterson's background, but I figure that if -Mort Walker-
>> can have a -recurring- black character, even Watterson can display one every
>> now and then.
>>
>But Beetle Bailey has many more characters than C & H. So do most
>strips; For Better or for Worse doesn't have any black characters
>either. The only characters we see at all are Calvin, Hobbes, Calvin's
>parents, teacher, principal, and Susie Derkins.
That is -not- true. You see students, for instance. I am not talking about
-recurring- characters. I am talking about any character, in even a single
panel, without a "speaking role." I am talking about even a background
character in a crowd. Nothing. Nada. Not a one. We are talking white bread
city here.
Jonas Karlsson
> Well, you know, humor isn't the only quality possessed by a comic strip.
>
> My interest is not in making Calvin and Hobbes funnier by having W. include
> "bit minority" parts. I'm more interested in exploring why it is that W. has
> apparently made it a policy -not- to have any.
It would be interesting to see what Watterson's response to
your observation would be. I hope it would not be similar to what
we've seen here. That one can only include a minority character if it
makes the strip more funny seems a bit restrictive. In the classroom
scenes, does the fact that some of the characters are female/non-blond
hair/shorter/taller than average 6 year old/different facial features
make the strip more funny? My guess is that it just makes the strip a
bit more realistic. I think all Mark is saying is that "Hey, in this
world all characters are white, but from what I observe of the world,
that seems rather unrealistic." There is none of the demands that
every comic strip have to have a specific ratio of minorities, or that
his enjoyment of the strip is severely curtailed as long as there are
no black characters, that some respondents have ascribed to him. As
far as I can tell, he just pointed out a curious observation.
I would hope that Watterson's response would be something along the
lines "Oh, I guess you're right -- I never really thought about it,
pretty silly of me.". Though I suppose he could be deliberately
trying to depict an all-white environment, or even be deliberately
holding back: "Well, you know, I drew that scene once with a white kid
in the background, and then once making him black-- but it wasn't any
funnier so I went back to the original."
-j
Mark T Pitcavage
Jonas Karlsson <jo...@cs.rochester.edu> wrote:
>In article <43md01$1...@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> mpit...@magnus.acs.oh
Well, thank goodness, someone who actually understood what I was posting. (and
that would be my hope, too)
chuck cilek
Mark T Pitcavage <mpit...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>My interest is not in making Calvin and Hobbes funnier by having W. include
>"bit minority" parts. I'm more interested in exploring why it is that W. has
>apparently made it a policy -not- to have any.
It's all because of the Grand Unified Conspiracy Theory.
Watterson knew that there would be this storm of protest, so that's
why he has shrunk the Calvin Universe over the last couple of years,
so he could use the Shrinking Calvin Universe as an excuse for his
failure to hire out-of-work black comic strip characters.
I can't recall the last time we actually saw either a new bit
character or even one of Calvin's fellow classmates (other than
Susie). Maybe he's downsizing?
Besides, I have the feeling that if Watterson drew in a black bit
character, the next round of complaints would be that there were
no black main characters
--
WWW page under construction: http://nyx10.cs.du.edu:8001/~ccilek/home.html
"These people need to get a life." Disney spokeswoman Terry Press,
on complaints about _The Lion King_ being racist, sexist, and homophobic.
Rich Adams
>There are still plenty of people in his world, including his uncle, a number of
>schoolmates, his doctor, etc. Yet not even a single schoolmate is ever black.
Ok... you are saying a good candidate for an african american could be
his uncle Max, his dad's brother? That would be kinda interesting.
I'm just pulling your leg, don't get sore :o)
Kevin J. Maroney
>That is -not- true. You see students, for instance. I am not talking about
>-recurring- characters. I am talking about any character, in even a single
>panel, without a "speaking role." I am talking about even a background
>character in a crowd. Nothing. Nada. Not a one. We are talking white bread
>city here.
I grew up on the outskirts of Columbus, Ohio, not too far from where
Watterson lives and where I've long assumed C&H takes place.
I can't remember meeting a single black person in the eleven years I
lived there. There are a _lot_ of blacks in Ohio, especially around
the cities, but there are a lot of places where you would not see a
black person, ever. Much of the midwest is strongly racially
segregated in a way that most other places in the US are not.
(Cleveland is a wonderful exception.)
I, however, would also like to see casual references to non-whites in
the strip. I think that Watterson could stand to imitate Schultz that
way-- there are a number of blacks in the strip with Charlie Brown and
Snoopy, but their race is never a factor.
--
Kevin J. Maroney | Crossover Technologies | ke...@crossover.com
Games are my entire waking life.
Aurienne
> called. There are five students in addition to Calvin right there. Why
> couldn't one of them have been black? In every single instance where ther
> could have been a black figure drawn, Watterson chose to leave them out.
> Every single one.
Maybe ink's real expensive where he is, and since it wouldn't advance the
gags, he decided it wasn't too important. i mean, i'm pale (i'm ukranian
and miscellaneous other northern things, almost albino), but even *i'm*
not as white as calvin, or just about any comic strip character! (though
i am paler than them on sundays, i must admit, at least the way my paper
prints them)
...that might be it! watterson has control over sunday
strips, and gets to make sure that they're really big, but maybe since he
might not have that power over weekday strips, and they could get
squished, the black characters might not come out right? watterson uses
a lot of detail, and fine ink work, and the strips i've seen featuring
blacks (herb-n-jamaal, the middletons, curtis) tend to have an "open"
style of drawing, more reminiscent of peanuts (which has franklin, btw).
or maybe he feels he can't draw them "right" and would offend people.
e.g., if an asian cartoonist draws an asian character with "slanty eyes",
you assume it's just a cartoonist's shorthand (since other defining
characteristics might be harder to draw consistantly in that small
strip). but when Beetle Bailey introduced corporal Yo, everyone said it
was huge typecasting, since the creator of that strip is white.
i agree with everyone who said "it's just to complicated in these pc
times to try to please everyone."
* JABBER v1.1 * JABBER the no meat, no oil QWK reader
David W. Olson
>In <43j0cb$i...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> bill...@aol.com (Billfish)
>writes:
>
>>>My stand would be that the remedy is to promote good African-American
>>>themed strips that can do this naturally. The only one that qualifies for
>>>me is Jumpstart.
>
>American community & characters.
This seems like a regular topic in USA comic strips. I had compiled a
list of minorities in Comic Strips the last time this came up. Here it
is again. I would appreciate hearing of additions to the list.
Curtis
Herb and Jamaal
Jumpstart
Where I am coming from
Annie (Asp, Punjab, others)
Beetle Bailey (Corp. Yo, Lt. Flap)
Cafe Angst
Doonesbury (Honey, Ray)
For Better or For Worse (Dawn Enjo)
Luann (Delta)
Peanuts (Franklin)
Redeye :-)
Steve Roper and Mike Nomad (Mah Jongg)
Terry and the Pirates (Dragon Lady)
Tumbleweeds :-)
Gordo (defunct)
Bloom County, Outland (defunct) (Oliver Wendell Jones, Ronald-Ann)
Boomers Song (defunct) (Suki, Mikki,...)
Steve Canyon (defunct) (Zee, others...)
Wee Pals
David Olson, my posting, my contribution
Rich Adams
[A whole lotta snippin goin on]
: >My response to that, once again, is why? How does this effect Calvin?
: >Would having bit minority parts make all strips funnier than before?
:
: Well, you know, humor isn't the only quality possessed by a comic strip.
:
: My interest is not in making Calvin and Hobbes funnier by having W. include
: apparently made it a policy -not- to have any.
Ok, I see all these multiple posts from the same guy at the same site...
I suggest for those it matters to, stop airing the hypotheticals and write
a letter to Bill Watterson and _ask_ him. None of us really can answer
for him, so why ask us? It seems to me, a way to get the letter to him,
if you can't find the appropriate address for the syndicate, is to call
you local paper and ask for it, or send the letter to Bill Watterson at
Universal Press Syndicate C/O your local paper. I'm sure it will find its
way, and if Bill feels obligated to respond, you will have your answer.
The answer to life's questions are usually easy enough to obtain once
you know where to look.
Mark Sornson
In article <tygDF4...@netcom.com>, t...@netcom.com (Tom Galloway) writes...
>In article <43jprq$l...@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>,
>>can have a -recurring- black character, even Watterson can display one every
>>now and then.
>Somewhat more seriously, let's count the number of characters in C&H: Calvin,
>Hobbes, Mom, Dad, Suzy, Moe, Wormwood, Rosalyn, Calvin's uncle, the
>principal. Other than the sequence with Calvin trying to play baseball with a
>team, I can't think of any more than these ten (OK, 11. I just recalled
>Mr. Bun). And Calvin's uncle was so far a one shot.
There have been a few other characters, but most have been one-shots
(except for Moe the bully). In the early days there was Calvin's
pediatrician (C: "What's that? Will it hurt?" P: "It's a cattle
prod..."). In the story about Calvin being pressured to join recess-
baseball, there were other kids, and the coach. There have also been a
policeman or two (and wasn't there a fireman once?). And at least once
there was a substitute teacher (S/T: "Here's a note from your teacher.
Which one of you is Calvin?")
There probably have been a few others, but I think Mark P. is right,
that there haven't been any non-white [human] characters (at least not
that I can recall). There have been a few monsters, though. And
Dinosaurs. [Has anyone looked at any of the 'crowd scenes' in which a
panicked mobs run from whatever danger Calvin has imagined?]
-mark s.
Steve Kay
mpit...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu "Mark Pitcavage" writes:
> Why are there no blacks in Calvin and Hobbes?
Calvin himself is black himself in one strip. The one where he's looking at the
camera negatives.
Steve.
Mark Stellmack
->
-> There probably have been a few others, but I think Mark P. is right,
-> that there haven't been any non-white [human] characters (at least not
-> that I can recall). There have been a few monsters, though. And
-> Dinosaurs. [Has anyone looked at any of the 'crowd scenes' in which a
-> panicked mobs run from whatever danger Calvin has imagined?]
->
-------------------
The vast majority of responses to this thread indicate that it's a non-issue to
most. It just doesn't bother us. You could name a gazillion sub-groups of the
population that are not represented in the strip. And you can name a gazillion
strips in which those same gazillion sub-groups are not represented. The
absence of non-white characters in C&H is not done maliciously. Whether it
accurately reflects reality or not is of concern to few. Just let the guy draw
his cartoon. Most of us can accept the fantasy world he has created. There is
no need to defend the strip any further. Let this thread die.
Arl n Jan
Rich Adams
: Mark T Pitcavage (mpit...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
: : However, he does not live in a small town. We have seen plenty of large
: I believe he lives outside a mid-sized city, in some town just beyond the
: suburbs. Given the size of his yard, the lack of neighbors who can look
: out their kitchen window directly into their living room, the lack of 10
: foot 'privacy' fences, the nearby ravines, forests, and other geographic
: features that are automatically eliminated to make way for the onslaught
: of preplanned housing that reduces the yard the minimum possibel size, I
: would conclude that he does not live in 'the suburbs'.
:
: Perhaps he was like me, growing up in a small town (of 4500) an hour away
: from a big city (detroit), and had access to nature (something most kids
: lack today). I could walk down the street and into a forest that
: eventually reached a state park. I could spend hours tromping around and
: in all my years, I never found the farthest reaches of it.
:
: Today's kids will miss out...
I grew up on, what I refered to as, the edge of civilization. Across the
street were fields, streams, and woodlands stretching for miles. I'm
still quite familiar with these areas from fond memories, even if some
have been destroyed by a scourge of developers. Something fascinating
about Calvin is his wild imagination, don't be too sure kids didn't grow
up like that. I was always the daydreamer, ne'er-do-well in class, and a
frequent proving ground for bullies (I did manage to become an extremely
fast sprinter ;) I, too, grew up in Michigan, 125 miles north of
Detroit. I've made it this far, and I wouldn't trade it for anything.
Greg Diamond
>
> Why are there no blacks in Garfield? ...
> Why are there no blacks in The Wizard of Id?
> Why single out Calvin and Hobbes?
Because we *like* Calvin & Hobbes. Because it is close to many of our
hearts, and we find it to be of psychological and sociological interest
in a way that Garfield never is and Wizard of Id hopefully isn't.
--
<><><> "If fifty million people "The weak have one weapon --
Greg<> say a foolish thing, it the errors of those who
<>/\<> is still a foolish thing." think they are strong."
<>\/<> -- Anatole France -- Georges Bidault
Greg Diamond
Umair Yousufi <you...@ucsub.colorado.edu> wrote:
>>It is more than passing strange that Watterson has completely excluded
>>them.
>No. It is more than "passing strange" that people will let something
>like this prevent them from enjoying the strip.
Mark P. has already made clear that he never said that this "prevents him
from enjoying the strip," but what interests me is why you would even
have jumped to that conclusion. How about this for an alternate reading:
Calvin, our boy Calvin whom we love, appears to be growing up in a
segregated society and will therefore be ignorant of important parts of
American in a way that would otherwise not have to be so. That saddens
me, just as if Calvin for some health reason was not allowed to play
outside at all. I have no belief at all that Watterson is racist in the
least -- he seems too wise for that -- but *nevertheless* we have the
fact that Calvin (apparently) lives in a segregated community (judging
only by the absence of Blacks in any crowd scenes, not by the lack among
any principal characters, which is BW's creative decision), and that
strikes me, in some small way, as sad, even if a fair reflection of even
some of the hillier parts of the Midwest.
You may argue that BW hasn't *tried* to give *any* impression as to the
racial composition of Calvin's neighborhood. That's the crux of the
argument and the import of Mark's point. Whether BW wants to give such
an impression or not, he *has* given one. To think otherwise is to think
that exclusive whiteness is somehow the default value and integration the
odd phenomenon one must explain.
Umair Yousufi
>>
>>>Calvin lives in a city, not a town; the notion that there are "no
>>>blacks" in it is at best strange.
>>>
>>>Also strange is the notion that the only reason one would include a
>>>minority group in a comic strip is so that no one would be offended.
>>>There are millions and millions of African-Americans in this country,
>>>reason enough right there to represent them every now and then, simply
>>>because they exist.
>>
>>And there exist millions and millions of Christians in the US and
>>Watterson only seems to acknowledge that just once a year during the
>>Christmas time strips. There exist millions of Hispanics, Asians, and
>>yadda yadda blah blah in the world that Watterson chose to ignore.
>>
>>Instead, he chose intelligent story lines, witty dialog, _beautiful,
>>beautiful_ artwork, and memorable characters to concentrate on.
>>Apparently, he did this to frustrate people like you who pay attention
>>to the trivialities of the strip. Anyway, I'm glad he's writing the strip
>>and not you.
>>
>>>It is more than passing strange that Watterson has completely excluded
>>>them.
>>
>>No. It is more than "passing strange" that people will let something
>>like this prevent them from enjoying the strip.
>>
>
>It is a shame that you are so defensive about strips that you like that you are
>unable to engage in any discussion about them except to praise them. I like
>C&H, I enjoy reading it (why do you think I own all the anthologies).
>Nevertheless, and apparently unlike yourself, I do not feel constrained to
>avoid all rational thought and to refuse to analyze the strip.
Defensive??? Where am I defensive? I asked a simple question: Would it
affect the strip. You skipped that and the rest my main arguments of my
last _two_ posts and ended this one in a vague ad hominem reply
("Defensive...Unable to..discuss...Unlike yourself..avoid all rational
thought...") Answer all the questions I bring up and maybe we can continue
this. In the meantime, keep your baseless attacks to yourself.
As to my "refus[al] to analyze the strip." I can almost *guarantee* you I
know more about C&H than you do. The good, the bad, whatever. I noticed
the lack of minorities a *long long long* time ago. And, like you, when I
noticed, I skimmed through the books to see if there was a minority
character that I might have missed. What would you like to discuss, the
good, the bad? I'll tell you what I think is excellent, what I think
Watterson emphasizes too much, or whatever your heart so desires to talk
about. I have a hard time seeing how you can make such sweeping
generalizations about me by reading only three of my posts.
--
Umair
|"Maybe they'll invent
| a psychotic computer."
| -Calvin, TDAJP
Umair Yousufi
>>>M.P.
>>U.Y
>M.P
>>>I know nothing of Watterson's background, but I figure that if -Mort Walker-
>>>can have a -recurring- black character, even Watterson can display one every
>>>now and then.
>>
>>Aaargh. (This is about the third time I'm asking). How would this change
>>anything? Why do you need a "recurring black character" to justify your
>>enjoyment of the strip? Would the dialog or plot change at all, or would
>>the change be superficial?
>
>Again, if you actually read my post
Which I did. Let's not make blind guesses as to my actions.
>you will see that I am NOT saying that C&H
>should have a recurring black character. You have missed the point entirely.
Missed the point entirely? Whatever. I may misread one or two posts, but
I fully understand what you are saying. I spent 5 or so minutes browsing
through your posts and replies and I distictly came up with that
impression. Read on for excerpts from your posts (highlighting mine) to
see where I got that impression. Hopefully, I left enough text in to
ensure you wouldn't be taken out of context. (If they have been
misattributed you, corrrect me)
All items that follow in quotes are yours (from diff. articles)
"The notion that "Watterson knows few blacks and feels more comfortable
writing about white characters" has absolutely nothing to do with the fact
that he won't even -draw- any, not even as insignificant background
characters who don't even speak."
"I know nothing of Watterson's background, but I figure that if -Mort
Walker- can have a -recurring- black character, even Watterson can display
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
one every now and then."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"While I fully realize that the universe of Calvin and Hobbes is a
constricted one, there are nevertheless numerous opportunities to display
African-Americans, should Watterson be so inclined. For instance,
Calvin's fellow students are fairly frequently displayed; I don't see why
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Watterson doesn't once in a blue moon make one of them black."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"There are millions and millions of African-Americans in this country,
reason enough right there to represent them every now and then, simply
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
because they exist."
"There are five students in addition to Calvin right there. Why
^^^
couldn't one of them have been black?"
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"Enough schoolmates are shown that -one- of them, even -once- could be
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
black.
^^^^^
Hmm. Nope. While I'm no English major, I have enough of a grasp of
English to see that I didn't misunderstand _all_ those.
You seem to object to the fact that no blacks were shown when the
"opportunity" arose. If blacks *had* been in these roles, then you
wouldn't have objected. This seems to say that you believe Watterson
*should* have put in least one of two minor black roles. Right?
And didn't you just deny that in the first line?
>The point was that if even Mort Walker could have a -recurring- black
>character, then it would seem not at all unreasonable that Watterson might
>-once- include even as a nonspeaking insignificant background figure someone
>who is not white. Why is Calvin's world a completely white world?
>
>
>>You apparently don't agree with me on the fact that such details are
>>irrelevant. I think they are completely irrelevant. They in no way could
>>make the strip any better. I think the strip is easily the funniest, most
>>creative, and well drawn strip I have _ever_ seen. Is this effected by
>>the fact that I see no one of my race in C&H? No. No. And, for an
>>encore, No.
>
>The strip is funny. Is this at issue? No. So stop bringing it up.
*You* *completely* misunderstand. The race issue is trivial. You
apparently agree with me on the fact that it does not effect the comic in
any way. Right? Then why discuss it? This issue is as meaningless to
the strip as Watterson's decision to:
a) Name Susie Derkins "Susie" as opposed to "Alice"
b) Never give out Calvin's parent's names
c) Make Calvin's hair blond
d) Make the family car a two door
e) Make Calvin 6 years old, as opposed to 7
f) Make Calvin's mother's hair brown
g) Have Susie's birthday in January
h) Not name Rosalyn "Marie"
i) Make Calvin's father's hair black
j) Have Calvin wear the same clothes most of the time
k) Use Andrews & McMeel as his publisher
x) and on and on.
Since you agree your "issue" doesn't effect C&H, the strip, then it must
be designed to do something else. It is, in essence, a question about
Bill Watterson.
I've noticed you've been quick to say that other strips (whose
anthologies, unlike C&H's, you probably haven't read recently) contain
blacks. Your whole tone (see your above paragraphs) is visibly
persecutorial. While you have denied that in previous posts and claimed
you were just making an observation, I see what very nearly amounts to an
attack on Watterson. *This* is what I *completely* disagree with. You
are trying to assume something (I'm not really sure what, though) about
Bill Watterson based solely on his work. You know nothing or close to
nothing about him and have only a comic strip to go on. This is nothing,
if not bizarre.
I guess I just don't understand....
--
Umair Yousufi
Billfish
> In article <43j0cb$i...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
> Billfish <bill...@aol.com> wrote:
> >I would say that Watterson is dedicated to unconsious, artistic
creation,
> >and that he grew up before desegregation and that his unconscious
doesn't
> >have many Blacks in it. Or ones that we wouldn't want to see (vide
Crumb).
> >My stand would be that the remedy is to promote good African-American
> >themed strips that can do this naturally. The only one that qualifies
for
> >me is Jumpstart.
>
> I know nothing of Watterson's background, but I figure that if -Mort
Walker-
> can have a -recurring- black character, even Watterson can display one
every
> now and then.
My point was exactly that a strip like Beetle Baily, which is drawn with
craft and which I always enjoy and respect, can introduce changes based on
circumstances external to the strip and, if the changes are carefully and
thoughtfully planned, they do not disturb the strip and, hopefully, add to
it. The whole strip is planned with intellect and carried on like a craft
or business. But I feel that Watterson wants to do a strip that is coming
out of a "deep" "creative" place, which is what gives it its unpredictable
quality and its feeling of uncovering new things. It doesn't work well to
censor or preplan this kind of work. Other strips I'd put in this category
would be Krazy Kat (which doesn't show Blacks) and Crumb's work (which
does - ha ha).
Incidentally, it seems like strips in the "creative" or "semi-creative"
category have a tendency to tumble into cranky over-conservatism, like
Skippy or Li'l Abner. The result of doing the same work of art for 30
years and finding that nothing changes, inside or outside the work? Or
part of being in a "low-brow" art?
I find that I don't trust professor Pitcavage's lobbying for Blacks in
C&H. Does he wish to put indirect pressure on Watterson to do this? Would
that be a good idea? He says it's just to represent reality better, but
that seems disingenuous, since these are after all comic strips. The
question would be whether it would improve C&H, or comics, or the
situation for African-Americans or for all America. I believe that
providing more and better jobs for African-American men would be a
positive and long overdue thing, but I'm not sure that integrating C&H
does much.
>I have made no value
>judgments, merely stated an observation.
>I've been pointing out a simple fact
"Newspapers are printed with ink" is an observation. I'm not completely
out of sympathy with your suggestion, but let's at least put it as a value
judgment and suggestion that can be debated.
I see (what I assume is) the Professor's point that what Watterson chooses
to portray is a political act, but I don't accept that that's
self-evident, and I don't think that stating that C&H has no Blacks and
then repeating it with rising emotional tone but without explanation or
defense constitutes helpful discourse.
Which brings me to a question I'd like to hear comments on:
Does the existence of Franklin in Peanuts improve things for anyone?
My sense is that it does-I noticed recently that I felt good about it,
particularly now that he's been there so long that it seems normal and not
like an act of tokenism. This has also happened in Beetle Baily. I'd like
to hear what people think about Franklin.
It would appear to me that Schulz introduced Franklin out of a sense of
what was right. In spite of Professor Pitcavage's protestations that he's
not suggesting that anyone should do anything, I think he thinks it would
be right to have black bit players in Calvin and Hobbes. That's not an
unreasonable thing to debate.
Peter Wadsworth
> or business. But I feel that Watterson wants to do a strip that is coming
> out of a "deep" "creative" place, which is what gives it its unpredictable
> quality and its feeling of uncovering new things. It doesn't work well to
> censor or preplan this kind of work. Other strips I'd put in this category
> would be Krazy Kat (which doesn't show Blacks) and Crumb's work (which
> does - ha ha).
This is a very poor example, in it that
1) Krazy Kat was a funny animal strip with all sorts of ethnic
characters. Are you suggesting that Krazy was white? What about Mock
Duck and Sancho Pansy?;
2) Herriman did other strips, some of which featured black characters,
such as "Musical Mose";
3) and Herriman was a light-skinned black himself. Creole, born in
New Orleans.
I'm not taking sides on the question of Watterson's possible biases -
given the liberal bent of the strip, I rather doubt that he's a
racist. I'm just a somewhat obsessed Krazy Kat fan who wants to set
that record straight. :)
--
Peter Wadsworth * p...@krazy.com * http://www.krazy.com/
- - -
"Ah-h-h-- 'Lil ainjil' - 'Kousin Ketbird' & 'Kousin Ketfish' sure
knew wot they was doing when they brought me here - " - Krazy Kat
NORRIS DOUGLAS TODD
>In article <43irik$g...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, SooYLee <soo...@aol.com> wrote:
>>mpit...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark Pitcavage) wrote:
>>
>>>Why are there no blacks in Calvin and Hobbes?
>>
>>Well, given the segregated housing pattern in U.S., maybe Calvin lives in
>>a small to medium-sized town...say in Midwest.
>Clearly, Calvin lives in the midwest--we know he lives near an "e" in the term
>"United States" as it might be displayed on a map, and furthermore, he finds a
>buckeye at one point.
Which "e" would that be, the "e" in United or the "e" in States?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Douglas Todd Norris (norr...@euclid.colorado.edu) "The Mad Kobold"
Hockey Goaltender Home Page: http://rowlf.cc.wwu.edu:8080/~n9143349/goalie.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I think President Bush played racial policies with the Haitian refugees. I
won't be shipping those poor people back."
-Candidate Bill Clinton, 27 March 1992
Mark Jackson
> The avalanche of response to this thread speaks volumes.
Indeed, although it speaks in many tongues :-)
I'd like to thank Mark Pitcavage for his thought-provoking and careful
post.
--
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
Anybody who's not bothered by Bell's theorem
has to have rocks in his head.
- David Mermin
zombie
>demanding a recurring role for a black character in Calvin and Hobbes. Never
>have I said anything of the sort.
True. However, it does seem to me that you are trying to insinuate that
Watterson is racist. A *policy* to exclude minorities? Yeah right.
zombie
--
# Lois & Clark -----: http://www.webcom.com/~lnc/index.html ------ #
# The Mutant Page --: http://www.santarosa.edu/~sthoemke/x.html -- #
# Comics (Very Cool): http://www.digimark.net/wraith/comix.html -- #
# zom...@netcom.com # ZOMBIE on GEnie # zom...@redeye.ebay.sun.com #
Mark T Pitcavage
Umair Yousufi <you...@ucsub.colorado.edu> wrote:
>Which I did. Let's not make blind guesses as to my actions.
>
>>you will see that I am NOT saying that C&H
>>should have a recurring black character. You have missed the point entirely.
>
>Missed the point entirely? Whatever. I may misread one or two posts, but
>I fully understand what you are saying. I spent 5 or so minutes browsing
>through your posts and replies and I distictly came up with that
>impression. Read on for excerpts from your posts (highlighting mine) to
>see where I got that impression. Hopefully, I left enough text in to
>ensure you wouldn't be taken out of context. (If they have been
>misattributed you, corrrect me)
>
>All items that follow in quotes are yours (from diff. articles)
>
>
>"The notion that "Watterson knows few blacks and feels more comfortable
>writing about white characters" has absolutely nothing to do with the fact
>that he won't even -draw- any, not even as insignificant background
>characters who don't even speak."
>
>
>Walker- can have a -recurring- black character, even Watterson can display
>one every now and then."
>
>
>"While I fully realize that the universe of Calvin and Hobbes is a
>constricted one, there are nevertheless numerous opportunities to display
>African-Americans, should Watterson be so inclined. For instance,
>Calvin's fellow students are fairly frequently displayed; I don't see why
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Watterson doesn't once in a blue moon make one of them black."
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>
>"There are millions and millions of African-Americans in this country,
>reason enough right there to represent them every now and then, simply
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>because they exist."
>
>
>"There are five students in addition to Calvin right there. Why
> ^^^
>couldn't one of them have been black?"
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>
>"Enough schoolmates are shown that -one- of them, even -once- could be
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>black.
>^^^^^
>
>
>Hmm. Nope. While I'm no English major, I have enough of a grasp of
>English to see that I didn't misunderstand _all_ those.
>
Jesus Christ! All of those comments illustrate the point I was making! None
of them refer to recurring characters. All of them refer simply to the
appearance of black people in the strips.
>You seem to object to the fact that no blacks were shown when the
>"opportunity" arose. If blacks *had* been in these roles, then you
>wouldn't have objected. This seems to say that you believe Watterson
>*should* have put in least one of two minor black roles. Right?
Wrong.
>
>And didn't you just deny that in the first line?
>
>>The point was that if even Mort Walker could have a -recurring- black
>>character, then it would seem not at all unreasonable that Watterson might
>>-once- include even as a nonspeaking insignificant background figure someone
>>who is not white. Why is Calvin's world a completely white world?
>>
>>
>>>You apparently don't agree with me on the fact that such details are
>>>irrelevant. I think they are completely irrelevant. They in no way could
>>>make the strip any better. I think the strip is easily the funniest, most
>>>creative, and well drawn strip I have _ever_ seen. Is this effected by
>>>the fact that I see no one of my race in C&H? No. No. And, for an
>>>encore, No.
>>
>>The strip is funny. Is this at issue? No. So stop bringing it up.
>
>*You* *completely* misunderstand. The race issue is trivial. You
>apparently agree with me on the fact that it does not effect the comic in
>any way. Right? Then why discuss it? This issue is as meaningless to
>the strip as Watterson's decision to:
The race issue is trivial to you, evidently.
>
>I guess I just don't understand....
Clearly.
Mark T Pitcavage
>Before, Mark T Pitcavage said...
>
>>The notion that "Watterson knows few blacks and feels more comfortable
>writing
>>about white characters" has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he
>>won't even -draw- any, not even as insignificant background characters who
>>don't even speak.
>
>
>You write what you know about.
>You DON'T write about what you DON'T know (sorry about the double neg)
So you are telling me that Watterson has never seen a black person? Because
you only need to know what one looks like to be able to draw him/her.
>There is a distinct possibility that, growing up, Mr. Watterson never knew any
>blacks. As other poster's have stated, there are STILL many suburbs that fit
>the 'whitebread' description you have stated. With this in mind, making a
>main/recurring character black is out of the question. Why? You write what
>you know (see also 'If you can't do it right, don't do it at all'). That
>leaves us with minor/background characters. Or, to coin a phrase, a 'token
>black'. Now, if I'm not mistaken, isn't this considered a bit of an insult?
>
>So, to quickly recap:
>
>1. Main/recurring black characters are not going to happen because (most
>likely) Watterson doesn't know enough black people to create a convincing
>character.
>
I am not even talking about recurring characters.
>2. This leaves us with 'token' appearances. At this point, we revert back to
>Umair Yousufi's argument: Why? It doesn't add anything, it's just PC. If
>it's not PC, why then argue for 'token' appearances (read: quota's,
>affirmative action).
It's not "tokenism" to have a black figure drawn in the strip once in a blue
moon; it's merely reality.
Mark T Pitcavage
Billfish <bill...@aol.com> wrote:
>I said:
>
>>I think he thinks it would
>>be right to have black bit players in Calvin and Hobbes.
>
>
>>Since I have repeatedly said that this was not something I ever called
> >for, and instead explicitly stated that it would be reasonable to draw a
>
>>black person in the strip now and then, when moderate or large numbers
>> of people are portrayed, I don't see how you can arrive at those
>> conclusions without jumping.
>
>Now tell me how "bit players" is different from "a black person in the
>strip now and then."
>
Bit Player: a recurring character.
A Black Person in the Strip Now and Then: (hypothetical example) Calvin
imagines a bus flying over a cliff to imminent doom. A passenger in the bus is
black.
Calvin is forced to play on a football team. In one of the panels, a black
teammate is shown.
etc.
Peter Mullaney
In a previous article, mpit...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark Pitcavage) says:
>Look at the back of "Homicidal Psycho Jungle Cat", or whatever that one is
>called. There are five students in addition to Calvin right there. Why
>couldn't one of them have been black? In every single instance where there
>could have been a black figure drawn, Watterson chose to leave them out.
>Every single one.
>
All I can say is BFD! He drew what he drew. Write him a letter, maybe
he'll let you psycoanalyze him.
Shesh!
--
: Pete Mullaney : Always do right. This will gratify :
: : some and astonish the rest. :
: : Samuel Langhorne Clemens :
: : aka Mark Twain :
Rich Adams
: In article <43khmh$i...@zippy.cais.net> rsda...@pacificnet.net (Ray Dawson) writes:
: >In <43j0cb$i...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> bill...@aol.com (Billfish)
: >writes:
: >>>My stand would be that the remedy is to promote good African-American
: >>>themed strips that can do this naturally. The only one that qualifies for
: >>>me is Jumpstart.
: >
: >American community & characters.
:
: This seems like a regular topic in USA comic strips. I had compiled a
: list of minorities in Comic Strips the last time this came up. Here it
: is again. I would appreciate hearing of additions to the list.
:
: Curtis
does that make him the ethnic? :)
: Herb and Jamaal
: Jumpstart
: Where I am coming from
: Annie (Asp, Punjab, others)
: Beetle Bailey (Corp. Yo, Lt. Flap)
: Cafe Angst
: Doonesbury (Honey, Ray)
: For Better or For Worse (Dawn Enjo)
: Luann (Delta)
: Peanuts (Franklin)
Jose' (I don't know if he's still a regular, I think he moved, not sure)
: Redeye :-)
: Steve Roper and Mike Nomad (Mah Jongg)
: Terry and the Pirates (Dragon Lady)
: Tumbleweeds :-)
: Gordo (defunct)
: Bloom County, Outland (defunct) (Oliver Wendell Jones, Ronald-Ann)
: Boomers Song (defunct) (Suki, Mikki,...)
: Steve Canyon (defunct) (Zee, others...)
: Wee Pals
:
: David Olson, my posting, my contribution
Fox Trot (Marcus)
Wizard of ID (Atila the Hun :)
Prince Valiant (Yuan Chen)
Mark Stellmack
->
->>The avalanche of response to this thread speaks volumes.
->
->Yeah, and I think the message is that race is still a hot issue for
->Americans.
->
-----------------
Right, except that in this thread, the majority of us are indicating that we're
tired of people tossing around racist charges in the silliest and most trivial
situations. This is not to say that racism is not a problem in many
circumstances, but merely that the whole concept is reduced and trivialized
when such accusations are raised in a context such as this. It is too
important an issue for this kind of treatment.
There ARE places that resemble the setting of C&H in both geography and ethnic
make-up. Even if it doesn't reflect reality, so what? If the strip claimed to
reflect reality, cities would be named, dinosaurs would remain motionless in
the museum, and tigers wouldn't talk. If the artist insulted someone with
something he wrote, that would be one thing. But to criticize him for OMITTING
characters of a specific sub-group is ridiculous because someone will always be
left out.
It is possible to be too sensitive. The types of criticisms that have been
raised regarding Calvin and Hobbes should be saved for more important
situations. Oddly, because of their trivial nature, the criticisms raised
against C&H in this thread actually do more harm than good to those trying to
increase sensitivity to racism.
Rich Adams
[snip]
: i agree with everyone who said "it's just to complicated in these pc
: times to try to please everyone."
The paradox is: It's ok to show a white character ____(a)_____ in a strip
but if it happens to an ethnic, watch out!
(a)
as the target of a prank
being called names
hit by a white bully
excluded from a party (or other social gathering)
commiting an unethical act (such as stealing)
conforming to "white" behavior
playing a fool
I could probably spend the day trying to think up more of these, but I
hope people get the picture. Race is still a touchy subject and there
are still taboos.
The ethnic representative as described by a caucasian pretty much has
to be a fine upstanding person receiving fair treatment from persons not
of their ethnic background. While this sounds PC or even prostitizing,
it is expected. Cartoonists receive quite a bit of heat for things
seemingly as esoteric as this. Racism still exists and counter racism
can still be racism.
And in defense of strips drawn, choosing whatever cast an artist does,
I firmly believe that you should write what you know.
Peter Mullaney
In a previous article, mpit...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark T Pitcavage) says:
>It's not "tokenism" to have a black figure drawn in the strip once in a blue
>moon; it's merely reality.
>
This 'ain't' reality, it's a COMIC STRIP!
BradW8
I think the reason there are no blacks in C&H is mostly because the cast
is restricted (moreso than Peanuts, Beetle Bailey, or Garfield) and partly
because Watterson MAY (stress may -- I don't know for sure) feel he can't
draw an African-American in a way which wouldn't offend. See my previous
post re: Hank Ketcham. Also I remember reading an interview with POPEYE
cartoonist Bud Sagendorf to the effect that he deliberately refrained from
drawing black people because he felt his "bigfoot" style would be
objectionable. (First time I'd heard it called "bigfoot"; other
cartoonists speak of "big nose" cartooning.)
Anyway with all the response this thread's gotten, it's funny that no
one's mentioned whether they themselves are black.
BradW8
as Wendy's boss
Billfish
>I think he thinks it would
>be right to have black bit players in Calvin and Hobbes.
He said:
>Since I have repeatedly said that this was not something I ever called
>for, and instead explicitly stated that it would be reasonable to draw a
>black person in the strip now and then, when moderate or large numbers
> of people are portrayed, I don't see how you can arrive at those
> conclusions without jumping.
Now tell me how "bit players" is different from "a black person in the
strip now and then."
>I also find it strange to write about
>it being right to "have" Black bit players in C&H, as if it's something
>we will discuss before coming to a vote.
I meant ethically right. I think it's OK to discuss the ethics of
literature.
Peter Wadsworth: Thanks for your scholarly and otherwise dynamite post
about minorities in Krazy Kat.
>The avalanche of response to this thread speaks volumes.
Yeah, and I think the message is that race is still a hot issue for
Americans.
hath...@stsci.edu
> mpit...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark Pitcavage) wrote:
>
>>That is -not- true. You see students, for instance. I am not talking about
>>-recurring- characters. I am talking about any character, in even a single
>>panel, without a "speaking role." I am talking about even a background
>>character in a crowd. Nothing. Nada. Not a one. We are talking white
>>bread
>>city here.
>
> I grew up on the outskirts of Columbus, Ohio, not too far from where
> Watterson lives and where I've long assumed C&H takes place.
>
> I can't remember meeting a single black person in the eleven years I
> lived there. There are a _lot_ of blacks in Ohio, especially around
> the cities, but there are a lot of places where you would not see a
> black person, ever. Much of the midwest is strongly racially
> segregated in a way that most other places in the US are not.
> (Cleveland is a wonderful exception.)
>
...
I thought it was well established that Calvin's hometown is
modeled on Chagrin Falls - where Watterson lived at one time
and whose downtown is depicted quite accurately on the full panel
back cover of one book collection. This is the one where Calvin
is hundreds of feet tall and is laying waste to the town. The
streets, buildings, and archtectural details are identical to
the real-life town.
While this town indeed appears to be "white bread city", it is
not completely white. During one of their yearly blossom parades
(same weekend as Memorial Day the year I went), I saw a number of
black marchers and there was at least one speaker (a female judge I
think) at the Memorial Day ceremonies at the Civil War monument at
the cemetery.
For a bit of hidden trivia though, examine the bridge the huge
Calvin is walking on as he advances upon the downtown. Look
to where the column of smoke is rising from his right foot.
This is where the bridge crosses Chagrin river (between
the 'natural' falls and the man-made falls for the old mills).
Under this bridge next to the water is a fairly large cave/cavern
reachable by some gingerly hopping from rock to rock along
the river bank. Local folklore has it this space was used
as a way station/ hideout for the Underground Railroad before
the Civil War. What with the noise from the nearby falls,
and the otherwise unattractive nature of the hole, it is
a place where any sounds or other human activity could be
well covered up and suited for hiding. (Still is BTW.)
What this has to do with the smoke rising from that area
in the drawing, or the non-appearance of non-whites in
the strip, I haven't the foggiest idea, but FWIW, here
is a little more info that few on the newsgroup seems to know.
WHH
SooYLee
Calvin&Hobbes include token minorities), I should point out one of the
posts replying to mine.
I merely said that maybe Calvin lives in an all-white small/medium town
somewhere, possibly in the Midwest--not unreasonable, given the segregated
housing pattern in U.S. today, and Midwest IS "whiter" than other parts of
the country. Then somebody (I don't have the name--I'll have to go back
days to dig it up), said I was being "PC."
Now, what was so "politically correct" about pointing out segregation in
housing exists? It's true. It is both regional and local (in most large
cities, there are "white" and there are "black"/"Latino" neighborhoods).
Coming to my point (finally) is that any fact which doesn't agree with
one's own view is automatically "PC" (so somehow disreputable). How has
things gotten this way?
BradW8
in Superman's bottle-city of Kandor. So DC could've had a super-powered
black man on Earth. Given their track record with Black Lightning and El
Diablo, maybe it's a good thing they didn't try.
(And, of course, Kandor is no longer around post-Byrne.)
Mark Rosenfelder
Rich Adams <ri...@alpha.delta.edu> wrote:
>Aurienne (auri...@cynosure.com) wrote:
>: i agree with everyone who said "it's just to complicated in these pc
>: times to try to please everyone."
>
>The paradox is: It's ok to show a white character ____(a)_____ in a strip
>but if it happens to an ethnic, watch out!
>
>(a)
>as the target of a prank
>being called names
>hit by a white bully
>excluded from a party (or other social gathering)
>commiting an unethical act (such as stealing)
>conforming to "white" behavior
>playing a fool
>
> I could probably spend the day trying to think up more of these, but I
>hope people get the picture. Race is still a touchy subject and there
>are still taboos.
> The ethnic representative as described by a caucasian pretty much has
>to be a fine upstanding person receiving fair treatment from persons not
>of their ethnic background.
Perhaps the problem is not with depicting racism, or not purely upstanding
ethnic characters, but with tokenism. If only one character in a strip
is a member of a particular group, they tend to be seen as an indication
of the cartoonist's attitude toward that group.
_Doonesbury_ is a good example of the opposite approach. I can think of
seven recurring black characters, for instance. This allows Trudeau to
depict, say, a black con man (Clyde) without seeming to say that all
blacks are con men.
> And in defense of strips drawn, choosing whatever cast an artist does,
>I firmly believe that you should write what you know.
Quite so. The nerve of Walt Kelly, writing about the Okefenokee when he
was neither Southern nor non-human, is galling. And what about Chester Gould,
who was neither a cop nor a policeman, or Gary Larson, who is not a cow?
Shocking.
Peter Mullaney
In a previous article, dol...@den.mmc.com (David W. Olson) says:
>This seems like a regular topic in USA comic strips. I had compiled a
>list of minorities in Comic Strips the last time this came up. Here it
>is again. I would appreciate hearing of additions to the list.
>
Heh, heh!!!
In Dumbdi, er that should be Dondi, many years ago, Grandma McGowan fell
in love with an Incan or Myan ruler (yeah I know the're extinct - at least
the Myans, but remember this IS Dondi).
David J. Coyle
recurring character, even if its only in one out of 50 panels.
|| DAVID J. COYLE / E-Mail: dc33...@oak.cats.ohiou.edu ||
|| Diversified Communications / "Sunset doesn't last all evening..." ||
|| Ohio University / --George Harrison, 1970 ||
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
David J. Coyle
_have_ mountains, cliffs, or really steep hills? If Calvin's imagination
can turn a stuffed animal into a living, breathing, talking tiger, then
perhaps it can stretch to turning a gently sloping hill into a
treacherous, challenging ski slope? I've never seen the adults skiing or
sledding in these cases...
Alan Hamilton
thread seem to consider the default to be an all-white cast, and that adding
any minority characters is some sort of craven cave-in to PC-ness. I.e., a
strip that's all white is "normal", while a mixed race cast is "PC". If a
strip can show a white character without people complaing ulterior motives,
why not minority characters?
/
/ * / Alan Hamilton
* * al...@primenet.com
n ahern
>
>>It's not "tokenism" to have a black figure drawn in the strip once in a blue
>>moon; it's merely reality.
>>
If the inclusion of a black figure in a strip only serves the purpose of
preventing people from asking "Why are there no blacks in the strip?", then
it is tokenism.
Your one assertion seems to be that Watterson ought to have included people of
color to represent reality. We have been establishing that reality does not
necessarily include the presence of people of color. It is pretty well
established through the postings of others that it is not un*real* to assume
there are slices of Americana out there where there
are no people of color. Just because x billion people in America are
people of color does not automatically evenly distribute those people
through-out every community in America. Even today, in my own community,
there are *no* black people in our vicinity. Not working as clerks in stores,
not driving buses, not riding school buses, not attending the school,
not living in the neighborhood in which my children play. (NOTE: This is *not*
because we choose to be a segregated area. It is because no blacks have
moved into our area). Likewise, when I grew up, in a number of different
communities, I did not encounter black people in my everyday life until
I reached middle-school.
Therefore *reality* indicates that a person such as Calvin, if he
did indeed exist, could very truly live in an all white
community. Therefore Watterson *is* indeed depicting a real-life situation,
insofar as the ethnic make-up of Calvin's world is concerned. Given that
this is a depiction of reality, then, insertion of a black character has no
purpose and would indeed represent tokenism.
QED
---
Nancy Ahern
"Find your niche, read the comic(s) for that, and enjoy. Eschew all others"
Rich Adams
: In article <43p67d$9...@alpha.delta.edu>,
: Rich Adams <ri...@alpha.delta.edu> wrote:
: >No, the next complaint would be "why isn't there a hispanic kid in the
: >strip" Once the artist starts to cater to this line of thinking the cast
: >mushrooms. Anyone who buys the 10th anniversary book and reads at least
: >halfway through it should get a clear picture why the strip is the way it
: >is. Give it a rest.
:
: Just curious: why would making an occasional incidental character(an
: extra, not a guest performer, in TV parlance) Black (or Hispanic) be
: "catering to" Blacks (or Hispanics) -- when after all there *are* a lot
: of Blacks and Hispanics in the country liable to be incidentally present
: in most of our lives -- but making all incidental characters white is
: somehow not "catering to" whites? There are some interesting assumptions
: buried here about what whites will do *unless forced to do otherwise* (or
: how else should I define "catering"?) that are, if true, quite tragic.
Catering to "whites" would be to purposefully exclude other ethnics.
I had a bunch of stuff I would add to this but, why bother, all you're
going to do is keep replying with all this nitpicking and I've had it.
Joshua S Kreitzer
is worth asking, although I'm not sure that "Calvin and Hobbes" should be
singled out. Looking at the last three days of all the strips that the
Chicago Tribune runs, I only see one black character (the social worker
visiting Duke's orphanage in "Doonesbury") and three Asian characters
(Honey in "Doonesbury," Dawn in "For Better or For Worse," and Lai Choi
San in "Terry and the Pirates").
There were a few others in Sunday's strips (Franklin in "Peanuts," two black
students in a crowd in "Fox Trot") but it seems that most comic strips have
very few people of color.
--
Joshua Kreitzer *** speaking for myself *** Northwestern Univ. School of Law
jsk...@nwu.edu Chicago, Illinois, USA
Greg Diamond
So, including Blacks is catring to them, and "purposefully" (do we think
BW draws his "extras" accidentally?) having only whites is catering to
whites. Seems to me that everyone must be in the catering business,
along with Blondie.
--
<><><> "If fifty million people "The weak have one weapon --
Greg<> say a foolish thing, it the errors of those who
<>/\<> is still a foolish thing." think they are strong."
<>\/<> -- Anatole France -- Georges Bidault
Greg Diamond
n ahern <na...@motsat.sat.mot.com> wrote:
>Even today, in my own community,
>there are *no* black people in our vicinity. Not working as clerks in stores,
>not driving buses, not riding school buses, not attending the school,
>not living in the neighborhood in which my children play. (NOTE: This is *not*
>because we choose to be a segregated area. It is because no blacks have
>moved into our area). Likewise, when I grew up, in a number of different
>communities, I did not encounter black people in my everyday life until
>I reached middle-school.
I recognize that this may be taken badly, although it is not so intended,
since I don't recall seeing anything in Nancy's posts that would raise my
hackles, but: Nancy, you *have* chosen to live in a segregated area. I
will fully acknowledge that this is most likely not *because* it is
segretated, but is is not just happenstance anymore when Blacks don't
live *at all* in a given area, given that they have as much interest in
fleeing crime and deprivations as do whites. It may be that your area is
beyond most Blacks' budgets (and if so probably resists the introduction
of public housing, which in no way imputes any attitude towards you
specifically), or that some small percentage of your community is
actively hostile towards Blacks (like, bricks through windows) in a
manner of which you legitimately may be unaware, or that the police in
your community (or the shopkeepers, of whoever) let Blacks know by their
actions and behavior that they are unwelcome. If your community is as
nice as you imply, there are enough Blacks with money nowadays who would
no doubt be willing to take a look at it absent these other factors.
Racial housing segregation doesn't just happen.
I'm perfectly willing to believe that BW *does* intend for us to believe
that Calvin lives in a lily-white neighborhood (and if he doesn't, he has
certainly given that impression.) If so, then Calvin (as a fictional
character) can be understood as having the advantages *and the
disadvantages* that that implies. But it's hardly a "default choice" as
some have suggested.
Hailing from my wonderful integrated neighborhood of which I am duly proud,
Umair Yousufi
>Umair Yousufi <you...@ucsub.colorado.edu> wrote:
>>
>>No. It is more than "passing strange" that people will let something
>>like this prevent them from enjoying the strip.
>
>Mark P. has already made clear that he never said that this "prevents him
>from enjoying the strip," but what interests me is why you would even
>have jumped to that conclusion.
How about the fact that he refers to it as "weird" and "strange"
repeatedly? Used in the context that he used them in, they were far from
flattering comments. Question answered?
>How about this for an alternate reading:
>Calvin, our boy Calvin whom we love, appears to be growing up in a
>segregated society and will therefore be ignorant of important parts of
>American in a way that would otherwise not have to be so.
I would be saddened if Calvin was never exposed to new ideas, not just new
faces. Would you argue that a person of a different race necessarily
brings with him/her new ideas? IMO, not neccessily. And, incidentally,
when was the last time Calvin conversed with any school mate (other than
Susie) significantly? Calvin has not picked any "important parts of
America" from _any_ of his peers.
>That saddens me, just as if Calvin for some health reason was not allowed
>to play outside at all.
If you say so. If Calvin doesn't converse with any of his peers, their
hair color is just as meaningless as their skin color. Different looks do
not necessarily equate to new ideas and beliefs.
>I have no belief at all that Watterson is racist in the least
I believe no one has said that.
>-- he seems too wise for that -- but *nevertheless* we have the
>fact that Calvin (apparently) lives in a segregated community (judging
>only by the absence of Blacks in any crowd scenes, not by the lack among
>any principal characters, which is BW's creative decision), and that
>strikes me, in some small way, as sad, even if a fair reflection of even
>some of the hillier parts of the Midwest.
I've never lived in the midwest (but isn't that a pretty blanket statement
everyone seems to have made about the midwest?), so I really can't
comment. Still, I believe that the race issue is irrelevant. For me,
ideas and beliefs are the critical factor. If I am impressed by a
person, is not because of their race, whether it be black, white, Asian,
Brazilian, whatever. Are you trying to argue that adding a minority
necessarily exposes Calvin ideas, or just that it exposes him to
different faces?
You would have more of an argument if you said that Calvin is "ignorant of
America" because there are no Jewish people portrayed in C&H, if only
because that would mean Calvin would have to analyze ideas, as opposed to
simply superficial features.
>You may argue that BW hasn't *tried* to give *any* impression as to the
>racial composition of Calvin's neighborhood. That's the crux of the
>argument and the import of Mark's point. Whether BW wants to give such
>an impression or not, he *has* given one.
And you could argue that Watterson has given the impression that no
religion other than Christianity exists in C&H's world. For that matter,
you could argue that C&H has given the impression that a *lot* of other
things in our world do not exist in C&H's world.
But where would that get you? Would you argue that the lack of
portrayal of someone visibly Jewish (yeah, I know. "Visibly" has the
wrong sound. But since religion is an idea, and not a cosmetic thing,
it's sort of hard to draw. I need some way to get to my point.) means
that Christianity is "somehow the default value," and other religions are
an "odd phenomenon." ? Hmm?
Is the portrayal of a pleasant suburbia and no other setting (other than
fantasy scenes (ie Tracer Bullet, Spiff) ) mean that suburbia is
"somehow the default value" and that cities, farms, inner-cities, and
other US settings are an "odd phenomenon." ? Hmm?
Have I made my point, or should I s-p-e-l-l it out? I can think of other
examples, if need be, and I could tell you exactly what I am using the
above examples to point out, but this is about as clear an example I can
bring up.
>To think otherwise is to think that exclusive whiteness is somehow the
>default value and integration the odd phenomenon one must explain.
These lines are where I was quoting from above.
--
Umair Yousufi
|"It's psychosomatic. You need a lobotomy. I'll get a saw."|
| -Calvin, AotDMKMSG |
Ray Dawson
>This is a long post.
>With all the discussion about blacks in Calvin & Hobbes, I
>went back and read the relevant passage in Hank Ketcham's
>"The Merchant of Dennis." I offer it because I think
>Watterson MAY fear a reaction similar to Ketcham's (though
>probably not as extreme -- and of course I have no way of
>knowing Watterson's feelings one way or the other).
Great posting! Thanks for sharing the excerpt from Ketcham's book.
However, I'd be surprised if Watterson was holding back on introducing
a black character due to fear of a negative reaction. First, I don't
think he'd draw a black character in such a stereotypical manner as
did Ketcham (product of his time though Ketcham may have been).
Second, as someone else pointed out here, Watterson wants to keep the
cast members as small as possible in the strip. That, I think, is the
larger motivating reason for no recurring (or otherwise..?) black
characters in the strip. Not fear that he may risk a backlash by
drawing a stereotype.
Ray
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
* You know, I think we should put some mountains here. * *
* Otherwise, what are the characters going to fall off of? * CARPE *
* And what about stairs? * NOCTEM *
* --- "Big Science" Laurie Anderson * *
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Silberberg
ri...@alpha.delta.edu (Rich Adams) wrote:
>No, the next complaint would be "why isn't there a hispanic kid in the
>strip"
I think Moe is Hispanic who is typecast as pugilistic.
----------------
Steve Silberberg
ste...@onramp.net
http://rampages.onramp.net/~stevebo/
Dr Eugene Charles Dart
>
> Mark T Pitcavage (mpit...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
> : However, he does not live in a small town. We have seen plenty of large
> : city-scapes showing where his father works, with skyscrapers etc.
>
> I believe he lives outside a mid-sized city, in some town just beyond the
> suburbs. Given the size of his yard, the lack of neighbors who can look
> out their kitchen window directly into their living room, the lack of 10
> foot 'privacy' fences, the nearby ravines, forests, and other geographic
> features that are automatically eliminated to make way for the onslaught
> of preplanned housing that reduces the yard the minimum possibel size, I
> would conclude that he does not live in 'the suburbs'.
>
> Perhaps he was like me, growing up in a small town (of 4500) an hour away
> from a big city (detroit), and had access to nature (something most kids
> lack today). I could walk down the street and into a forest that
> eventually reached a state park. I could spend hours tromping around and
> in all my years, I never found the farthest reaches of it.
>
> Today's kids will miss out...
>
>
> -Matt P
Assembly Language Programming Guru
Dear Matt,
I note that you are an Assembly Language programming Guru who has
spent nearly his whole life growing up in hicks-ville. This tells us
two important facts about you (a) - you probably never knew any blacks
when you were growing up and (b) if you did you lacked the social
skills necesssary to communicate with them if you did meet them. It
comes as no surprise then, that you cannot figure out why there are no
blacks in this white conservative cartoon, as too people like you
negroes are all either crack cocain dealers or four part harmony
groupies. If all you can add to the discussion is small town
observations of life near large state parks perhaps you should
consider retutrning to the white middle class moral majority closet
where you obviously come from!!
Gwillim Law
Mark Pitcavage <mpit...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>I've been rereading all the Calvin and Hobbes anthologies recently and it
>suddenly struck me that I have not seen a single character in any of the
>strips who is not Caucasian.
>
How do you know Mrs. Wormwood isn't black? Or Suzie Derkins oriental?
-- Gwillim Law
Rich Adams
: Might I suggest that Calvin lives in an area that doesn't necessarily
: can turn a stuffed animal into a living, breathing, talking tiger, then
: perhaps it can stretch to turning a gently sloping hill into a
: treacherous, challenging ski slope? I've never seen the adults skiing or
: sledding in these cases...
Calvin only exists in an imagined suburban setting, changed according to
the demands of each strip, and drawn from the artists experiences. How
could it be otherwise...
John Taber
On Thu, 21 Sep 1995, David J. Coyle wrote:
> Might I suggest that Calvin lives in an area that doesn't necessarily
> _have_ mountains, cliffs, or really steep hills? If Calvin's imagination
> can turn a stuffed animal into a living, breathing, talking tiger, then
> perhaps it can stretch to turning a gently sloping hill into a
> treacherous, challenging ski slope? I've never seen the adults skiing or
> sledding in these cases...
>
But we have seen Susie mess around with Calvin in the snow. IMHO, C&H
takes place in Ohio. Supporting this:
1. On the way back from Mars, C & H noted that there house was by the E
in STATES.
2. Watterson grew up in Ohio.
3. There are plenty of lakes in Michigan and New York that are an eight
hour drive from Ohio.
Ronald D. Edge
>characters of a specific sub-group is ridiculous because someone will always be
>left out.
>
>It is possible to be too sensitive. The types of criticisms that have been
>raised regarding Calvin and Hobbes should be saved for more important
>situations. Oddly, because of their trivial nature, the criticisms raised
>against C&H in this thread actually do more harm than good to those trying to
>increase sensitivity to racism.
>
The above are some of the wisest words I have seen in this long but fascinating thread.
I was there in the south in the sixties, and what I and others hoped and struggled for
was a color-blind society. Sadly, that is not what we have gotten. We will only break
away from racism and tribalism and all the grief and tragedy these atavisic traits bring
humanity when we can truly be color blind. Otherwise, we are saying that race is a
divide, a factor so important in perceiving a person for what they are, so complete in
its impact on making that person what they are, that we will NEVER grow beyond it.
Because one's skin is black should not automatically determine what they are, no more
that if their skin is white. When will we learn this??
I do want to congratulate the participants in this thread for the worthy and high level
of the discourse, though. Noone has sunk to to to the really petty or trivial.
As for Calvin and Hobbes, let's put it in the category of great art, one of the
attributes of which is that in some way parts of it rise above a specific place and time,
and achieve universality. The universality here is the experience of the mind of the
imaginative child, coming to grips with the world around him. Sure, there are blacks, and
hispanics, and maybe even a few orthodox jews. Maybe Calvin will run into them sooner or
later. But I don't think we are missing anything in this work of art by their absence,
other than if we are driven by the excesses of current racial thought to force an
artificial inclusion.
Thanks for your ears,
Ron.
jthe...@forest.drew.edu
(Umair Yousufi) writes:
[stuff deleted]
> True. But (it's me again) why? Suppose that instead of drawing C&H as
> they are now, Watterson decided to draw them as African Americans. How
> would this effect the comic? Would the humor be any more or any less
> funny? Would Hobbes' pounces be any different now that he was pouncing a
> 6-year old African-American kid? The comic, would (assuming a
> superficial change of looks) be the same. The whole race issue is
> irrelevant.
Including African Americans in the strip would not simply involve a change
in shading, or even facial characteristics. C&H is a continuing story
about a white kid who has grown up as part of the dominant white culture.
If Watterson were to include an African American character in his strip,
he have to include dialogue that dealt with cultural differences (assuming
the African American character is not a walk-on).
Other white comic strip artists have dealt with this issue before, with
varying success. For example, Berke Breathed's Oliver Wendell Holmes
character was extremely well-developed. The strips from the late 1980s
when Oliver struggles with society's perception of his race were poignant
and funny.
However, Breathed's self-conscious attempt to develop Ronald Ann's
character in the Outland strip was not nearly as funny or successful.
Ronald Ann was not only an African American, she was poor and lived on
"the other side of the tracks." Breathed attacked the social and political
systems directly through his portrayal of her, but he did not understand
her character's culture well enough to write her dialogue.
Breathed proved the adage that art must reflect life. His life
experience enabled him to portray a middle class African American, Oliver.
But Ronald Ann's character contained *two* facets of life with which
Breathed had little experience--poverty and African American culture. I
admire Breathed's attempt to bring new cultures and attitudes onto the
comics page. I believe that humor and art must reflect life. But he
ranged too far outside his experience in Outland in his attempt to put
"real life" on the comics page.
However, Watterson's C&H is not as political a strip as Breathed's were.
Watterson is not trying to fight social injustice through his portrayal of
a kid and his tiger. The safest thing for the artist would be to continue
portraying the white middle class culture he knows so well. A more
moderate course would be including African American characters as
walk-ons. But I'm not sure Watterson should apply his talent to depicting
African Americans in central roles--unless he undergoes some eye-opening
experiences and can do it well.
David P. Murphy
>The notion that "Watterson knows few blacks and feels more comfortable writing
>about white characters" has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he
>won't even -draw- any, not even as insignificant background characters who
>don't even speak.
unless you have knowledge you are keeping to yourself, you are incorrect
to say that he _won't_ draw any blacks: he _doesn't_ draw any blacks.
ok
dpm
--
David P. Murphy mailto:mur...@connor.datametrics.com (work)
systems programmer mailto:d...@access.digex.net (personal)
http://www.access.digex.net/~dpm
COGITO ERGO DISCLAIMUM ftp://ftp.digex.net/pub/access/dpm
Chris Brow
going after Calvin is a mistake- it's a very lean comic strip with a very
VERY small cast, so it's not so much there aren't black characters in the
strip as there are very FEW characters, and most of them are Calvin's
family members. I'd hazard to point out the diversity in Calvin is
probably about the same as the diversity in say, Curtis- and both are
great strips, both by talented, liberal open minded cartoonists. But art
(and yes, comics are art) can't operate under quotas or political
correctness. It's its own thing.
The reality check's in the mail- best, Chris B.
Joseph Francis Nebus
>Quite so. The nerve of Walt Kelly, writing about the Okefenokee when he
>was neither Southern nor non-human, is galling.
Hey now, some of us happen to take great pride in not being human.
Joseph Nebus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Laura Johnson
people have mentioned the absence of black characters in "B.C." That's
an example of a strip where it makes *sense* not to have black characters
(though IMHO it might make more sense if it had *all* black characters).
Anyway, in a prehistoric caveman "village", I think you'd expect everyone
to be of the same race (unless you are Jean Auel).
--
Laura Johnson | A modern U.S. Navy cruiser now requires
lau...@fc.hp.com | 26 tons of manuals. This is enough to
Hewlett Packard NSMD | affect the vessel's performance.
Ft. Collins, CO | - David Mankins