Luann (1-17)
Antonio E. Gonzalez
1. At first I thought Evans wasn't trying with the Beetle, it looking
so cartoony opposite the Jaguar, but . . . well . . .
2. He even got a grease stain under the Bug!
3. The Bug's simplicity (it was said you could tune the engine with a
screwdriver) made it incredibly popular in the third world; in the
early 80's, I remember at least half the cars in Lima's streets were
Beetles . . .:
<http://www.comics.com/comics/luann/archive/luann-20060117.html>
- ReFlex76
- "Let's beat the terrorists with our most powerful weapon . . . hot
girl-on-girl action!"
- "The difference between young and old is the difference between
looking forward to your next birthday, and dreading it!"
J.D. Baldwin
In the previous article, Antonio E. Gonzalez <AntE...@aol.com>
wrote:
> 3. The Bug's simplicity (it was said you could tune the engine with
> a screwdriver) made it incredibly popular in the third world; in the
> early 80's, I remember at least half the cars in Lima's streets were
> Beetles . . .:
As of mid-2001, they were still quite common in São Paulo, Brazil. Of
course, they were still being manufactured there. (since discontinued)
--
_+_ From the catapult of |If anyone disagrees with any statement I make, I
_|70|___:)=}- J.D. Baldwin |am quite prepared not only to retract it, but also
\ / bal...@panix.com|to deny under oath that I ever made it. -T. Lehrer
***~~~~-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter B. Steiger
> 3. The Bug's simplicity (it was said you could tune the engine with a
> screwdriver) made it incredibly popular in the third world; in the early
> 80's, I remember at least half the cars in Lima's streets were Beetles
I wish I had gotten a bug (the real one, not these newfangled yuppie
versions) when they were dirt-cheap; I figured if there's any kind of
engine an idiot like me could learn to maintain and repair, that would be
it. But by the time I came to that realization, classic Beetles had
become "antiques" and now they cost an arm and three or four legs.
--
Peter B. Steiger
Cheyenne, WY
If you must reply by email, you can reach me by placing zeroes
where you see stars: wypbs_**3 at bornagain.com.
Ted Kerin
"Peter B. Steiger" <see...@for.email.address> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.01.17....@access4less.net...
>
> I wish I had gotten a bug (the real one, not these newfangled yuppie
> versions) when they were dirt-cheap;
>
I remember that when I first got my driver's license (back when dinosaurs
walked the earth, before their fossilized remains become our gasoline), you
could buy a brand-new VW Beetle for $1,500.
racs...@gmail.com
And by jeezum you could fill the tank for $3.50! Them were the days,
weren't they? heh heh heh.
Old Timer Moment: I pull into the parking lot at work and see that the
young marketing person has the rear end of her Bug open. I'm about to
say, "Motor trouble?" when she reaches in and pulls out a large box.
Right. They moved that around as part of screwing the whole thing up.
Mike Peterson
Glens Falls NY
George Peatty
>I remember that when I first got my driver's license (back when dinosaurs
>walked the earth, before their fossilized remains become our gasoline), you
>could buy a brand-new VW Beetle for $1,500.
I was there, too .. in the ancient days when Studebakers and Packards and
Hudsons roamed the earth ..
ameijers
"pete...@SPAMnelliebly.org" <racs...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1137537854.9...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
(snip)
>
> Old Timer Moment: I pull into the parking lot at work and see that the
> young marketing person has the rear end of her Bug open. I'm about to
> say, "Motor trouble?" when she reaches in and pulls out a large box.
>
> Right. They moved that around as part of screwing the whole thing up.
>
immediate family, at various times. Remember Praying to the Gods of
Wolfsburg, kneeling on the ground before the open engine hatch? My knees are
still sore thinking about it. There was NO comfortable way to work on those
engines in the car. Best you could do was a couple of milk crates to sit on
for the top, and learning how to lever the car up on blocks for the bottom.
aem sends...
ronniecat
<racs...@gmail.com> promised to tell the truth, the whole truth and
nothing but the truth but instead wrote:
>Old Timer Moment: I pull into the parking lot at work and see that the
>young marketing person has the rear end of her Bug open. I'm about to
>say, "Motor trouble?" when she reaches in and pulls out a large box.
>
>Right. They moved that around as part of screwing the whole thing up.
>
>Mike Peterson
>Glens Falls NY
My dad would respectfully disagree with you. As a volunteer
firefighter/first responder and as a trucker, he *despised* Beetles
and thought they should never, ever have been allowed on the road.
Apparently seeing what was left of drivers of a few autos with nothing
of substance in front of them after head-on collisions made an
impression on him. It was the only make of auto in which, growing up,
I was explicitly forbidden to ride. (Ironically he bought me my first
motorcycle, however.)
ronnie
--
"The very deaf, as I am, hear the most astounding things all
'round them, which have not, in fact, been said." - Henry Green
<<remove mycollar to respond by email>>
www.hearingloss.blogspot.com - a blog about deafness
ameijers
"ronniecat" <ronn...@mycollar.ronniecat.com> wrote in message
news:ar2rs15keuhg0vts6...@4ax.com...
(snip)
> My dad would respectfully disagree with you. As a volunteer
> firefighter/first responder and as a trucker, he *despised* Beetles
> and thought they should never, ever have been allowed on the road.
>
> Apparently seeing what was left of drivers of a few autos with nothing
> of substance in front of them after head-on collisions made an
> impression on him. It was the only make of auto in which, growing up,
> I was explicitly forbidden to ride. (Ironically he bought me my first
> motorcycle, however.)
>
> ronnie
the head-on wreck part, but another part of the equation is the ability to
<avoid> the oncoming car, which a small nimble car can sometimes do when a
big car can't. (Beetle and early Porsche models were very close
cousins.)After my sister wrecked family Beetle number 2, and gained some
impressive bruises but no permanent injuries, my father made a similar edict
as yours. They were so damn much fun, though, that I went ahead and bought a
Baja Bug years later, and my brother ran through 3 of them, driving each one
into the ground. (you may have noticed that, in salt country, once the pan
gets rotten, you have no heat or defrost, and eventually it sags enough that
the doors don't work too well....)
aem sends...
Cindy Kandolf
> Old Timer Moment: I pull into the parking lot at work and see that the
> young marketing person has the rear end of her Bug open. I'm about to
> say, "Motor trouble?" when she reaches in and pulls out a large box.
>
> Right. They moved that around as part of screwing the whole thing up.
Well, actually, they moved that around because the "New Beetle" is
just an overpriced Golf in disguise, but that's another discussion.
I had a similar experience. Went shopping with a friend in my '74
Bug. We bought some things at the mall, and then stopped at a fast
food place on the way home. We figured we shouldn't leave our bags in
full view on the back seat, particularly since the locks were less
than dependable on that particular car. So I popped open the trunk,
which is of course in the front, and got a comment from some hot-shot:
"Y'know, the motor on those things is in the *back*."
(I believe my reply was something like, "Yeah, I noticed that when I
checked the oil yesterday. Jerk.")
The young flodnaks are big fans of the Herbie movies, and have been
watching the "Fully Loaded" DVD they got for Christmas quite a bit.
(In the case of the older one, it's possible Lindsay Lohan has
something to do with it.) It's odd, you know. I have no problem
accepting, for the sake of the movie, a car that can drive itself and
have facial expressions - but when Herbie is supposed to drive over
another car, part of my brain keeps yelling "You EEDIOTS! Bugs were
rear-wheel drive!" It's like those underwater candles in Sherman's
Lagoon, I guess.
Hey! I tied it back to comic strips!
- Cindy Kandolf, certified language mechanic, mamma flodnak
flodmail: ci...@nethelp.no flodhome: Bærum, Norway
flodweb: http://www.flodnak.com/
ronniecat
03:29:19 GMT, "ameijers" <aeme...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Well, ronnie, as a former Beetle owner, I would have to agree with you about
>the head-on wreck part, but another part of the equation is the ability to
><avoid> the oncoming car, which a small nimble car can sometimes do when a
>big car can't. (Beetle and early Porsche models were very close
>cousins.)After my sister wrecked family Beetle number 2, and gained some
>impressive bruises but no permanent injuries, my father made a similar edict
>as yours. They were so damn much fun, though, that I went ahead and bought a
>Baja Bug years later, and my brother ran through 3 of them, driving each one
>into the ground. (you may have noticed that, in salt country, once the pan
>gets rotten, you have no heat or defrost, and eventually it sags enough that
>the doors don't work too well....)
I should also hasten to mention that my father-IN-LAW, who is 6'4",
had a beetle when he was a young broke professor and family man and
the whole family speaks incredibly fondly of the car; they would drive
it on family trips from Fredericton, where my FIL taught at the
University, to the family home in Arvida, Quebec; and the whole family
speaks about those trips, and the fact that the heater didn't work at
all in winter, and the car overheated in summer (forcing FIL to drive
with the heat on full-blast to divert heat from the motor) with the
fondness that can only be born of true love.
ronnie
Jim Strain
ronniecat wrote:
> On 17 Jan 2006 14:44:15 -0800, "pete...@SPAMnelliebly.org"
> <racs...@gmail.com> promised to tell the truth, the whole truth and
> nothing but the truth but instead wrote:
>
> >Old Timer Moment: I pull into the parking lot at work and see that the
> >young marketing person has the rear end of her Bug open. I'm about to
> >say, "Motor trouble?" when she reaches in and pulls out a large box.
> >
> >Right. They moved that around as part of screwing the whole thing up.
> >
> >Mike Peterson
> >Glens Falls NY
>
> My dad would respectfully disagree with you. As a volunteer
> firefighter/first responder and as a trucker, he *despised* Beetles
> and thought they should never, ever have been allowed on the road.
>
> Apparently seeing what was left of drivers of a few autos with nothing
> of substance in front of them after head-on collisions made an
> impression on him. It was the only make of auto in which, growing up,
> I was explicitly forbidden to ride. (Ironically he bought me my first
> motorcycle, however.)
>
> ronnie
They had other safety problems, too. One memory that still brings a
chuckle was a traffic report on the radio back in the 70s: "There's a
car fire on the Five, just past the E Street exit in Chula Vista. Fire
crews are on the scene, but the vehicle is fully engulfed in flames."
Then the DJ broke in to ask, "What kind of a Volkswagen *is* it?"
. . . jim strain in san diego.
Ted Kerin
This was a considerable design flaw in the Beetle, that caused a number of
motorists -- diabetics especially, on long trips -- to get their feet
roasted right off the stumps.
The engine heat was fed more-or-less directly through the heater vents, down
by your feet. When the engine got really hot, this would make most people
uncomfortable way before their extremities were charred. But if there was
some kind of neurological compromise in the feet -- again, diabetes was a
big risk factor -- then the Beetle occupant might not know he was in trouble
until the car was filled with the smell of roasting meat.
John Reiher
"Ted Kerin" <tf.k...@gte.net> wrote:
> This was a considerable design flaw in the Beetle, that caused a number of
> motorists -- diabetics especially, on long trips -- to get their feet
> roasted right off the stumps.
>
> The engine heat was fed more-or-less directly through the heater vents, down
> by your feet. When the engine got really hot, this would make most people
> uncomfortable way before their extremities were charred. But if there was
> some kind of neurological compromise in the feet -- again, diabetes was a
> big risk factor -- then the Beetle occupant might not know he was in trouble
> until the car was filled with the smell of roasting meat.
That just smells of being an Urban Legend.
To roast your feet, the temperature would have to very high and would
possibly melt the plastic in the vents long before it would roast your
feet.
--
The Kedamono Dragon
Pull Pinky's favorite words to email me.
http://www.ahtg.net
Have Mac, will Compute
Check out the PowerPointers Shop at:
http://www.cafeshops.com/PowerPointers
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TOliver
"John Reiher" <kedamo...@Narf.mac.com> wrote ...
>
> "Ted Kerin" <tf.k...@gte.net> wrote:
>
>> This was a considerable design flaw in the Beetle, that caused a number
>> of
>> motorists -- diabetics especially, on long trips -- to get their feet
>> roasted right off the stumps.
>>
>> The engine heat was fed more-or-less directly through the heater vents,
>> down
>> by your feet. When the engine got really hot, this would make most people
>> uncomfortable way before their extremities were charred. But if there was
>> some kind of neurological compromise in the feet -- again, diabetes was a
>> big risk factor -- then the Beetle occupant might not know he was in
>> trouble
>> until the car was filled with the smell of roasting meat.
>
> That just smells of being an Urban Legend.
>
> To roast your feet, the temperature would have to very high and would
> possibly melt the plastic in the vents long before it would roast your
> feet.
>
of an "emergency jar", a '68 Kharmann Ghia "coo-pay", and a '72 "Flat
Windscreen" Super Bettle Ragtop (the only flat front window SupBeet?) and
driving them extensively in temperate climes, the flow of warm air diverted
by the shrouds around the exhaust manifold was incapable of roasting
diabetic tootsies are cold-smoking salmon for that matter.
Besides, even the most servere diabetic would hear the sizzle and smell the
aromatico al arosto.
TM "'47 Chevvies had heaters which burned gasoline, capable of roasting an
extire passenger." Oliver
David Scheidt
:"John Reiher" <kedamo...@Narf.mac.com> wrote ...
Some VWs had gasoline heaters, too, didn't they? Made by some German
company with an unspellable name, as I recall.
David
Paul Tomblin
>In article <437kdlF...@individual.net>,
> "Ted Kerin" <tf.k...@gte.net> wrote:
>> The engine heat was fed more-or-less directly through the heater vents, down
>> by your feet. When the engine got really hot, this would make most people
>> uncomfortable way before their extremities were charred. But if there was
>> some kind of neurological compromise in the feet -- again, diabetes was a
>> big risk factor -- then the Beetle occupant might not know he was in trouble
>> until the car was filled with the smell of roasting meat.
>
>That just smells of being an Urban Legend.
>
>To roast your feet, the temperature would have to very high and would
>possibly melt the plastic in the vents long before it would roast your
>feet.
I melted the handles off a bunch of screw drivers, and the insulation of a
pair of pliers, in a tool box that I'd left behind the driver's seat
(right in front of one of those heater vents) while trying to keep up with
some friends as we drive on convoy from Waterloo Ontario to Quebec City.
I don't know how hot that was, but I'm glad it blows from behind and under
the seat and not into your lap.
--
Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com> http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
C has features?? I thought the whole point of that language was to
offer nothing but bare metal.
-- David P. Murphy
Indigo Ace
<ronn...@mycollar.ronniecat.com> wrote:
>the car overheated in summer (forcing FIL to drive
>with the heat on full-blast to divert heat from the motor) with the
>fondness that can only be born of true love.
Oh, man. This happened with my first car, a '79 Dodge Omni.
Undaunted, one summer I took a road trip from Little Rock to Tulsa.
Oklahoma. In July. It took forever.
(Even after that was fixed, it gave me a ton of trouble, which only
ended when the transmission gave out two weeks before I was supposed
to return to graduate school. My mom urged me to call back & see if
the transmission could be salvaged in some way. The mechanic said,
"Ma'am, I'm holding a piece of it in my hand right now.")
--
Anne
indigoace at goodsol period com
http://www.goodsol.com/cats/
Paul Ciszek
In article <kedamono.Poit-4F4...@text-west.newsfeeds.com>,
John Reiher <kedamo...@Narf.mac.com> wrote:
>
>That just smells of being an Urban Legend.
>
>To roast your feet, the temperature would have to very high and would
>possibly melt the plastic in the vents long before it would roast your
>feet.
"Roast" may be an exageration, but there are numerous accounts of
people with decreased sensation allowing extremities to become hot
enough to cause tissue damage.
--
Please reply to: | "Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is
pciszek at panix dot com | indistinguishable from malice."
Autoreply is disabled |
Hatunen
I had a 1960 Beetle. On these earlier Beetles the air for heating
the interior passed right over the cylinders; a flap valve
diverted the engine cooling air to the duct system, which
contained no plastic. I don't remember what year ithe change was
made, but later models passed the air around the exhaust manifold
instead of over the cylinders, the so-called "clean-air" model.
At one point the wire controlling my flap valve broke leaving the
heat permanently on. In warm weather it became so hot we stuffed
rags down the window and floor vents. Had to remove them when
they started to smoke.
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
TeaLady (Mari C.)
news:ELxzf.23265$v05...@tornado.texas.rr.com:
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0603-3, 01/18/2006), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
>
> "John Reiher" <kedamo...@Narf.mac.com> wrote ...
>>
>> "Ted Kerin" <tf.k...@gte.net> wrote:
>>
>>> This was a considerable design flaw in the Beetle, that
>>> caused a number of motorists -- diabetics especially,
>>> on long trips -- to get their feet roasted right
>>> off the stumps.
>>>
snips
>>
>> That just smells of being an Urban Legend.
>>
>> To roast your feet, the temperature would have to very
>> high and would possibly melt the plastic in the vents long
>> before it would roast your feet.
>>
> Anecdotal, but owning three, a '64 - first model with a
> fuel gauge instead
> of an "emergency jar", a '68 Kharmann Ghia "coo-pay", and a
> '72 "Flat Windscreen" Super Bettle Ragtop (the only flat
> front window SupBeet?) and driving them extensively in
> temperate climes, the flow of warm air diverted by the
> shrouds around the exhaust manifold was incapable of
> roasting diabetic tootsies are cold-smoking salmon for that
> matter.
>
> Besides, even the most servere diabetic would hear the
> sizzle and smell the aromatico al arosto.
>
I've also owned several VWs - K Ghias, Superbugs, fastbacks -
and the worst I recall is a highly uncomfortable warmth on the
outside edge of the upper calf and knee nearest the door. And
that was only in those cars that had rusted pretty much
through, to the point that hitting a puddle meant I was going
to need a change of clothes when I got where I was going.
--
TeaLady (mari)
"The principal of Race is meant to embody and express the
utter negation of human freedom, the denial of equal rights, a
challenge in the face of mankind." A. Kolnai
John Varela
> I had a 1960 Beetle.
Me too. My strongest recollection of the heater is driving on Rte 128
(ObTWIAVBP: the ring road around Boston, Massachusetts) in a blinding
snowstorm with the windshield slowly getting covered over with ice
because that feeble little heater couldn't get the windshield above
freezing, and having to stop under an underpass, get out, and clean
the windshield with cars whooshing past on the slippery roadway.
--
John Varela
Trade OLD lamps for NEW for email
Noises Off
> In article <437kdlF...@individual.net>,
> "Ted Kerin" <tf.k...@gte.net> wrote:
>
>
>>This was a considerable design flaw in the Beetle, that caused a number of
>>motorists -- diabetics especially, on long trips -- to get their feet
>>roasted right off the stumps.
>>
>>The engine heat was fed more-or-less directly through the heater vents, down
>>by your feet. When the engine got really hot, this would make most people
>>uncomfortable way before their extremities were charred. But if there was
>>some kind of neurological compromise in the feet -- again, diabetes was a
>>big risk factor -- then the Beetle occupant might not know he was in trouble
>>until the car was filled with the smell of roasting meat.
>
>
> That just smells of being an Urban Legend.
>
> To roast your feet, the temperature would have to very high and would
> possibly melt the plastic in the vents long before it would roast your
> feet.
>
Strange you should say that. In the early 70's I had a
friend who fell on hard times. He ended up driving a VW (not
a beetle) who's name I have forgotten. It had an ordinary
heater and a 'petrol burning' one.
He took great pleasure in turning them both on and
explaining "LOOK! You can burn the rubber mats!".
They where simple times.
Noises Off
John Varela
wrote:
> Anecdotal, but owning three, a '64 - first model with a fuel gauge instead
> of an "emergency jar",
Actually, there wasn't a separate tank. The fuel tank was in front of
the dashboard, and within the tank was a standpipe. At the base of
the pipe was a valve controlled by a handle on the firewall (which
wasn't really a firewall because the fire was aft, but you know what I
mean). Fuel was taken from the tank through the standpipe. When the
fuel level reached the top of the pipe, the engine would starve.
Turning the valve handle permitted fuel to be drawn from the bottom of
the pipe, which was also the bottom of the tank.
I learned this late one night when I was low on fuel, running on the
emergency tank (I don't think that was what it was called, but I can't
recall the correct name) and looking for a gas station. They were all
closed and I ran out of gas. In desperation I turned the valve back
to normal and to my surprise the engine now ran and got me to an open
station. I later figured out that, after I had switched to the
emergency tank, fuel had sloshed into the standpipe and I got that
extra mile by burning the fuel in the pipe.
Steve Ackman
In <dqmaak$3hh$2...@reader2.panix.com>, on Wed, 18 Jan 2006 21:01:08 +0000
(UTC), David Scheidt wrote:
> Some VWs had gasoline heaters, too, didn't they? Made by some German
> company with an unspellable name, as I recall.
Among the years and models they were available on
was the '66 (micro)bus. IIRC, the gas heater was
strictly for rear space heating. You still had to
wait forever for the windshield to defrost while
the engine heated up.
technomaNge
>
> I've also owned several VWs - K Ghias, Superbugs, fastbacks -
> and the worst I recall is a highly uncomfortable warmth on the
> outside edge of the upper calf and knee nearest the door. And
> that was only in those cars that had rusted pretty much
> through, to the point that hitting a puddle meant I was going
> to need a change of clothes when I got where I was going.
>
The brakes on bug caused me to have the same need for
different clothes.
techno(high-pucker-factor)maNge
ameijers
"TeaLady (Mari C.)" <spres...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns974FBCA...@130.133.1.4...
(snip)
> I've also owned several VWs - K Ghias, Superbugs, fastbacks -
> and the worst I recall is a highly uncomfortable warmth on the
> outside edge of the upper calf and knee nearest the door. And
> that was only in those cars that had rusted pretty much
> through, to the point that hitting a puddle meant I was going
> to need a change of clothes when I got where I was going.
>
many holes in the heater tubes and pan. I remember vividly driving through a
deep puddle the first time, and the water stream off the front tire hitting
me in the face like the floor wasn't even there.
aem sends....
Lon
> In article <437kdlF...@individual.net>,
> "Ted Kerin" <tf.k...@gte.net> wrote:
>
>
>>This was a considerable design flaw in the Beetle, that caused a number of
>>motorists -- diabetics especially, on long trips -- to get their feet
>>roasted right off the stumps.
>>
>>The engine heat was fed more-or-less directly through the heater vents, down
>>by your feet. When the engine got really hot, this would make most people
>>uncomfortable way before their extremities were charred. But if there was
>>some kind of neurological compromise in the feet -- again, diabetes was a
>>big risk factor -- then the Beetle occupant might not know he was in trouble
>>until the car was filled with the smell of roasting meat.
>
>
> That just smells of being an Urban Legend.
>
> To roast your feet, the temperature would have to very high and would
> possibly melt the plastic in the vents long before it would roast your
> feet.
>
Also smells of stale burning oil most of the time. Once't had a VWish
vehicle with the exhaust driven heaters. Often used to keep a 12 volt
bulb near my feet to avoid freezing the !@#$!@ things off. Some VW's
had an optional gasoline heater for colder climes...unfortunately not an
option on my mobile deep freeze.
Lon
Or a '73 914 where the freaking transmission shift linkage got so much
ice in rural Illinois it couldn't be shifted. Even adding a second
blower to the engine bay couldn't keep the interior much above freezing
in the upper Dakotas or Montana.
Mike Beede
"pete...@SPAMnelliebly.org" <racs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Old Timer Moment: I pull into the parking lot at work and see that the
> young marketing person has the rear end of her Bug open. I'm about to
> say, "Motor trouble?" when she reaches in and pulls out a large box.
>
> Right. They moved that around as part of screwing the whole thing up.
Actually the New Beetle isn't a bad car. It's mechanically
identical to the Jetta, but seems to have slightly more room.
I do agree it isn't likely to result in instant death in any
accident, which somewhat reduces its coolness, but as I age
I become more receptive to this sort of risk reduction.
Mike Beede
Mike Beede
indi...@seesignature.com (Indigo Ace) wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 13:23:02 GMT, ronniecat
> <ronn...@mycollar.ronniecat.com> wrote:
>
> >the car overheated in summer (forcing FIL to drive
> >with the heat on full-blast to divert heat from the motor) with the
> >fondness that can only be born of true love.
>
> Oh, man. This happened with my first car, a '79 Dodge Omni.
> Undaunted, one summer I took a road trip from Little Rock to Tulsa.
> Oklahoma. In July. It took forever.
Hmm. I had that same experience with a new Ford Taurus just
last year. I was driving through Death Valley and it was 130 F
or so.
I was really reluctant to turn off the air and even more reluctant
to turn on the heat, but the idea of having to walk was rather
horrifying. At least with the windows down I wasn't perceptibly
sweaty (and in fairness to Dearborn, as soon as I got past the
hilly part I was able to button up and put the air back on).
Mike Beede
Indigo Ace
>n article <43cfb5d2...@news.prodigy.net>,
> indi...@seesignature.com (Indigo Ace) wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 13:23:02 GMT, ronniecat
>> <ronn...@mycollar.ronniecat.com> wrote:
>>
>> >the car overheated in summer (forcing FIL to drive
>> >with the heat on full-blast to divert heat from the motor) with the
>> >fondness that can only be born of true love.
>>
>> Oh, man. This happened with my first car, a '79 Dodge Omni.
>> Undaunted, one summer I took a road trip from Little Rock to Tulsa.
>> Oklahoma. In July. It took forever.
>
>Hmm. I had that same experience with a new Ford Taurus just
>last year. I was driving through Death Valley and it was 130 F
>or so.
You win. <g>
HS WRand Om
I drove a paper route in high school in a Beetle and had pretty much the
same experience. It was almost warmer outside the car on the coldest
days of winter. Feet would burn with near frostbite afterwards but never
got hot enough to cook in the summer.
Bob Ward
Would that be a little douche coupe?
Ted Kerin
"Paul Ciszek" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:dqmfds$gtu$1...@reader2.panix.com...
>
> In article <kedamono.Poit-4F4...@text-west.newsfeeds.com>,
> John Reiher <kedamo...@Narf.mac.com> wrote:
> >
> >That just smells of being an Urban Legend.
> >
> >To roast your feet, the temperature would have to very high and would
> >possibly melt the plastic in the vents long before it would roast your
> >feet.
>
> "Roast" may be an exageration, but there are numerous accounts of
> people with decreased sensation allowing extremities to become hot
> enough to cause tissue damage.
>
> --
Heh. Well, I thought it would be apparent enough that my various cooking
metaphors were intended as humorous exaggeration. But as you say, there were
cases of tissue damage and, to my knowledge, whole-foot amputation.
Unfortunately, I no longer have access to the published accounts, so I won't
press the point, but meanwhile I have enjoyed the various Beetle anecdotes.
My sister loved hers, and I don't think it had a working heater at all.
Don Freeman
"Bob Ward" <bob...@email.com> wrote in message
news:poeus1lqimttpj6ma...@4ax.com...
>
I gotta ask: how long have you been waiting for the perfect opportunity to
use that line?
Spindler of Kittens
news:43cfbed2$0$96002$742e...@news.sonic.net...
:
: "Bob Ward" <bob...@email.com> wrote in message
You're not going to start ragging on him, are you?
Bob Ward
wrote:
Actually, it came up in conversation once when my wife was riding
shotgun in my Samurai with no floormats. We hit a rain puddle and she
got the full effect - right on target.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
He's not ragging babe, so don't put him down.
Ted
Spindler of Kittens
[snip]
: Actually, it came up in conversation once when my wife was riding
: shotgun in my Samurai with no floormats. We hit a rain puddle and
she
: got the full effect - right on target.
I seem to recall doing something like that in my last 280ZX. The
passenger side floor was mostly gone, my wife was sitting there, and I
didn't notice a large, deep puddle (small lake, really) coming
up.......at 35 mph, the effect was rather like a firehose.
ameijers
"HS WRand Om" <stro...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:QRGzf.1047$NS6...@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
I eventually discovered it was less work to NOT try to heat the interior-
just drive wearing arctic gear and goggles, and keep the window cracked. As
long as you could keep the interior humidity low, and the windshield glass
cold, it didn't ice up. I kept a scraper suck in the crack above the
winshield (no interior upholstry- I previously said is was a half-ass baja
conversion, didn't I?), to scrape the inside of the windshield when needed.
My super had the auxillary blower box behind the dash to boost the air
pressure, but all that did was leak and heat the trunk.
Yeah, I bought a 'real' car as soon as I could, and just used the VeeDub in
warmer weather. Eventually sold it for same as I had paid for it, when my
mother said to get it the hell out of her driveway, and my little sister
turned her nose up at driving it because it was so ugly.
aem sends....
TeaLady (Mari C.)
news:ObCzf.2368$RE....@bignews7.bellsouth.net:
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
> TeaLady (Mari C.) wrote:
Brakes ? Yours had brakes ? I used to throttle it down,
downshift, and toss concrete blocks on ropes (tied to the
seats) out the windows to stop - and learned to time all the
lights, so I could just sort of drift up to the red and
through on green.
God forbid there be a car or several waiting at the light.
THAT was a pucker factor.
--
Tea"ok, so at least one had working brakes - sort of"Lady
Jack Dominey
<spres...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Brakes ? Yours had brakes ? I used to throttle it down,
>downshift, and toss concrete blocks on ropes (tied to the
>seats) out the windows to stop
Not that bad, but my 1978 Chevy Monza needed a piece of railroad tie
as a parking brake on the rather steep spot assigned for the apartment
I lived in a couple of years later.
--
"I'm gonna act grown up/That's my plan"
Jack Dominey
jack_dominey (at) email (dot) com
R.I.P. Bob Denver
Ted Kerin
"Jack Dominey" <lo...@my.sig> wrote in message
news:qoj0t1534c4quqet0...@4ax.com...
> In <Xns9750B8D...@130.133.1.4>, "TeaLady (Mari C.)"
> <spres...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Brakes ? Yours had brakes ? I used to throttle it down,
> >downshift, and toss concrete blocks on ropes (tied to the
> >seats) out the windows to stop
>
> Not that bad, but my 1978 Chevy Monza needed a piece of railroad tie
> as a parking brake on the rather steep spot assigned for the apartment
> I lived in a couple of years later.
> --
I had an old Kaiser Jeep, with leaf springs so sprung that the whole vehicle
tilted at about a 45 degree angle on every turn. But the fuel system was
more exciting than the suspension.
The drivers seat was bolted directly onto the gas tank. (So I laughed
scornfully at Ford Pinto owners, who worried about the gas tank being way in
the back.) If the tank ever blew, the driver would have been shot up into
the sky, like a pilot activating the ejector seat.
The fill-pipe was in the doorway, so you had to open the driver's door to
fill the tank. And the gas gauge never worked. After a couple of times
running out of gas in the middle of noplace, with the gauge showing copious
amounts left, I took to carrying a 24-inch wooden ruler under the seat. Then
I regularly stuck the ruler into the gas tank like a dipstick, down through
the opening in the door-jam, and I'd say, hmmm....still have 2-1/2 inches of
gas.
Lee Ayrton
> I had an old Kaiser Jeep, with leaf springs so sprung that the whole vehicle
> tilted at about a 45 degree angle on every turn. But the fuel system was
> more exciting than the suspension.
>
> The drivers seat was bolted directly onto the gas tank. (So I laughed
> scornfully at Ford Pinto owners, who worried about the gas tank being way in
> the back.) If the tank ever blew, the driver would have been shot up into
> the sky, like a pilot activating the ejector seat.
[snip fore-n-aft]
That is a Wiley Coyote image, isn't it. [Boom!][slide whistle]
The visual trope (Def. 2, "embellishment") of exploding automobile fuel
tanks is one of my pet... Pet... Er, well, I'm not sure what to call it
but it is a pet something. I blame the movie industry.
TWA Eight-hundred (grepping loons still exist) aside, fuel tank
explosions are about as far from a probability of 1 as you can get,
because vapor concentrations in the tank are usually too high to support
an explosion. The farm boys among us probably have tales of dropping
lit matches down the filler pipes of abandoned cars and seeing only a
disappointingly small *pop* at the mouth of the neck.
There is, obviously, the horrible fire risk with the tank's under-seat
location (and model-decades of pickup trucks with the tank behind the
bench seat). A perpendicular collision could spill the tank contents,
as would a left-side rollover. Of course your Kaiser didn't have seat
belts either, making for one of the very few advantages of being "thrown
clear" of a crash -- itself an urban myth concept from Lasnerian 1960.
John Varela
<aeme...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> I eventually discovered it was less work to NOT try to heat the interior-
> just drive wearing arctic gear and goggles, and keep the window cracked. As
> long as you could keep the interior humidity low, and the windshield glass
> cold, it didn't ice up.
For condensation on the inside, but my problem on Rte 128 was with
snow accumulating and packing down on the outside of the windshield.
A consequence of weak wipers as well as a weak heater.
John Varela
wrote:
> I learned this late one night when I was low on fuel, running on the
> emergency tank (I don't think that was what it was called, but I can't
> recall the correct name)
The reserve tank.
John Varela
<misl...@ameritech.net> wrote:
> I seem to recall doing something like that in my last 280ZX. The
> passenger side floor was mostly gone, my wife was sitting there, and I
> didn't notice a large, deep puddle (small lake, really) coming
> up.......at 35 mph, the effect was rather like a firehose.
Really? In a 280ZX? I had the experience of removing the floormat in
my 240Z and seeing the surface of the driveway. I had it repaired by
a company that did ductwork; the guy riveted a piece of steel onto the
hole. He said he used to weld them (it appears this happened a lot to
240Zs) until he set someone's upholstery on fire.
Anyway, don't those guys ever learn? Mine was a '73 Z; what year was
your 280ZX?
Charles Bishop
<tf.k...@gte.net> wrote:
[snip]
>
>I had an old Kaiser Jeep, with leaf springs so sprung that the whole vehicle
>tilted at about a 45 degree angle on every turn. But the fuel system was
>more exciting than the suspension.
>
>The drivers seat was bolted directly onto the gas tank. (So I laughed
>scornfully at Ford Pinto owners, who worried about the gas tank being way in
>the back.) If the tank ever blew, the driver would have been shot up into
>the sky, like a pilot activating the ejector seat.
>
>The fill-pipe was in the doorway, so you had to open the driver's door to
>fill the tank. And the gas gauge never worked. After a couple of times
>running out of gas in the middle of noplace, with the gauge showing copious
>amounts left, I took to carrying a 24-inch wooden ruler under the seat. Then
>I regularly stuck the ruler into the gas tank like a dipstick, down through
>the opening in the door-jam, and I'd say, hmmm....still have 2-1/2 inches of
>gas.
What you then needed was a graph showing gallons/inch, laminated, of
course, and hung from one of those small chains made of small round steel
balls-these must have a name, they were once as ubiquitous as bison.
charles, maybe they still are
Mark Jackson
> "HS WRand Om" <stro...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:QRGzf.1047$NS6...@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
>> John Varela wrote:
>>> On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:48:49 UTC, Hatunen <hatu...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I had a 1960 Beetle.
>>> Me too. My strongest recollection of the heater is driving on Rte
>>> 128 (ObTWIAVBP: the ring road around Boston, Massachusetts) in a
>>> blinding snowstorm with the windshield slowly getting covered over
>>> with ice because that feeble little heater couldn't get the
>>> windshield above freezing, and having to stop under an underpass, get
>>> out, and clean the windshield with cars whooshing past on the
>>> slippery roadway.
>>>
>> I drove a paper route in high school in a Beetle and had pretty much the
>> same experience. It was almost warmer outside the car on the coldest
>> days of winter. Feet would burn with near frostbite afterwards but never
>> got hot enough to cook in the summer.
>
> I eventually discovered it was less work to NOT try to heat the interior-
> just drive wearing arctic gear and goggles, and keep the window cracked. As
> long as you could keep the interior humidity low, and the windshield glass
> cold, it didn't ice up. I kept a scraper suck in the crack above the
> winshield (no interior upholstry- I previously said is was a half-ass baja
> conversion, didn't I?), to scrape the inside of the windshield when needed.
This kind of heater was standard on *Porsches* as late as 1965, the last
year of the 356C. AIUI the gasoline heater option was only available if
you had a 12-volt system; I bought my 6-volt Super in the fall of 1969
and promptly drove it from Southern California to central Illinois,
where I spent the harshest winter in years driving around one-handed
while scraping (and shifting) with the other.
And seven ungaraged winters left no floor to speak of on the passenger
side (splash), and enough play in the pedal cluster that the clutch
stopped working until I slapped a piece of aluminum channel across the
bottom and bolted everything back together. An expensive trip from
decent driver to parts car, but it was fun while it lasted.
--
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
Those who can make you believe absurdities
can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
Brian Huntley
Charles Bishop wrote:
> What you then needed was a graph showing gallons/inch, laminated, of
> course, and hung from one of those small chains made of small round steel
> balls-these must have a name, they were once as ubiquitous as bison.
>
> charles, maybe they still are
The good folks at http://www.ballchain.com/ seem to call it "ball
chain."
- Brian "no &" Huntley
Nick Spalding
on Thu, 19 Jan 2006 01:46:45 GMT:
> On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 20:43:16 UTC, "TOliver" <tolive...@Hot.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Anecdotal, but owning three, a '64 - first model with a fuel gauge instead
> > of an "emergency jar",
>
> Actually, there wasn't a separate tank. The fuel tank was in front of
> the dashboard, and within the tank was a standpipe. At the base of
> the pipe was a valve controlled by a handle on the firewall (which
> wasn't really a firewall because the fire was aft, but you know what I
> mean). Fuel was taken from the tank through the standpipe. When the
> fuel level reached the top of the pipe, the engine would starve.
> Turning the valve handle permitted fuel to be drawn from the bottom of
> the pipe, which was also the bottom of the tank.
>
> I learned this late one night when I was low on fuel, running on the
> emergency tank (I don't think that was what it was called, but I can't
> recall the correct name) and looking for a gas station. They were all
> closed and I ran out of gas. In desperation I turned the valve back
> to normal and to my surprise the engine now ran and got me to an open
> station. I later figured out that, after I had switched to the
> emergency tank, fuel had sloshed into the standpipe and I got that
> extra mile by burning the fuel in the pipe.
Motor bikes have had those for many years, my 1934 250cc Panther had and
every of later date that I owned. My dad had a 1946 Jaguar (identical to
the 1939 model) that had one too.
--
Nick Spalding
TOliver
"John Varela" <OLDl...@verizon.net> wrote ...
"Spindler of Kittens" <misl...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>> I seem to recall doing something like that in my last 280ZX. The
>> passenger side floor was mostly gone, my wife was sitting there, and I
>> didn't notice a large, deep puddle (small lake, really) coming
>> up.......at 35 mph, the effect was rather like a firehose.
>
> Really? In a 280ZX? I had the experience of removing the floormat in
> my 240Z and seeing the surface of the driveway. I had it repaired by
> a company that did ductwork; the guy riveted a piece of steel onto the
> hole. He said he used to weld them (it appears this happened a lot to
> 240Zs) until he set someone's upholstery on fire.
>
My first car, bought on my 14th birthday, 1953, for $50. plus $25 for 5
"new" recaps, mounted and balanced, was a 1929 Ford A 5 window coupe. The
passenger side had substantial floorboard/firewall deterioration, the
firewall with a gaping hole or two, while a chunk of 3/4" plywood cured the
water splash problem (although in Central Texas, rains were rare enough to
make water splash no real problem except at low water crossings in the Hill
Country. The unshielded/unfiltered aft-facing carburetor air intake on that
side of the motor was a problem. A poorly adjusted spark//choke/throttle
combo (left quadrant: spark advance, right quadrant: hand throttle, choke
pull out below dash, in/lean, out/flood, if I remembers all these years)
caused backfires through the air intake, sending an occasional tongue of
flame through the firewall openings, more than disconcerting to a passenger.
Of course, Model As, fuel tank just ahead of the windshield, high, were not
as bad up hill as had been the Model Ts, tank under seat, which required
backing to make steep hills and maintain fuel flow, but a steep long grade
could cause starvation when the tank was low.
As for GM's trucks with side mount gas caps and tanks sandwiched behind the
seat, my little sister, the plaintiff's lawyer, enriched the family of a
poor Mexican illegal (and helped herself a bit) who was converted into a
briefly living Ronson ad due to the faulty design. GM must have paid out
any number of big settlements on GMC and Chevy pickup accidents, far more
than Pintos, just not so pubicly gnawn.
Tm "He wuz'a movin'on." Oliver
Nick Theodorakis
wrote:
>Of course, Model As, fuel tank just ahead of the windshield, high, were not
>as bad up hill as had been the Model Ts, tank under seat, which required
>backing to make steep hills and maintain fuel flow, but a steep long grade
>could cause starvation when the tank was low.
>
[posting from racs, cross-posting maintained]
I realize that you probably know this, but others may not know that Ts
didn't have fuel pumps; the fuel was fed by gravity, which is why the
tank was situated higher than the engine and the solution of backing
up steep hills was sometimes needed when the tank was low.
I actually had to do that once. My father-in-law used to restore Ts
(and a few As) and my wife's family would drive them around on
vacation in Oregon during camping trips. My wife and I joined them
once or twice shortly after we were married so I learned how to drive
a T and some of their quirks.
Once we stopped at a rare full-service gas station for refueling. My
FIL got out of the car and told the attendant "fill 'er up!" and we
watched in amusement as the attendant tried to find the gas tank.
Nick
--
Nick Theodorakis
nick_the...@hotmail.com
contact form:
http://theodorakis.net/contact.html
John Varela
wrote:
> at low water crossings in the Hill Country.
I know about those. In the early 50s there was one that took the
River Road across the Blanco River near Wimberley.
David
Theodorakis) typed furiously:
My 1927 Willys Overland Whippet had the fuel tank in the rear. The
fuel was pulled to the engine bay by a vacuum tank mounted on the
firewall. On long uphill crawls you occasionally had to stop to allow
the vacuum to build up sufficiently to suck up more fuel. Leakage of
the cork or paper seals was also a problem.
I eventually solved it by installing a pusher type electric pump next
to the tank. When you turned the ignition key on, this pump would tick
loudly for several seconds until it had filled the carby.
--
David
Remove "farook" to reply
At the bottom of the application where it says
"sign here". I put "Sagittarius"
E-mail: justdas at iinet dot net dot au
Ted Kerin
I don't know how unique this was, but the 1960 Peugeot 403 Cabriolet -- best
remembered as Lietenant Columbo's car -- had a gas tank that you could only
fill by lifting the left tail light assemby, which swung up on a hinge. The
fill pipe was hidden behind those tail lights. Those wacky French!
Brian Huntley
Pre-1963 (or so) VWs didn't have an outside fuel flap, so you had to
life the 'hood' (the part in front, not the engine cover in back.)
Oh, and mid-60's Pontiacs had the fuel filler behind the rear license
plate.
Lee Ayrton
The 1958 Cadillac hearse (made by Miller Meteor) that a friend owned had
the same filler location. A few other large 1960s[L] cars had similar
styling.
TOliver
"Lee Ayrton" <lay...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:dr2ujc$lht$2...@reader2.panix.com...
General Motors used tail-lights set in prominent fins to hide filler caps on
several models, IIRC.
TMO
John Francis
That was the variation that gave me the hardest time when I first encountered
it (I occasionally worked the night shift at a petrol station in those days,
on the main road between London and the channel ferry ports, and so I saw a
wide variety of cars both British and otherwise).
The hinges on the lift-up tail lights, fins, etc. were reasonably easy to spot,
but the license plate drop-down hinges were obscured by the plate itself.
Then there were the cars that had two different tanks, with two completely
different filler assemblies (sometimes one on each side of the car) . . .
David
typed furiously:
My 1973 Toyota Corolla had the filler behind the plate as well. It was
reasonably common for the period/
Nick Theodorakis
<brian_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
[...]
>Oh, and mid-60's Pontiacs had the fuel filler behind the rear license
>plate.
>
ISTR that was pretty common in the 1960s.
Bob Ward
wrote:
1956 Cadillac, 1956 and 1957 Chevrolet... probably others...
Lon
There were a couple merkin cars with that feature. Dodge, Cadillac, and
I could swear DeSoto.
Lon
> Ted Kerin wrote:
>
>>I don't know how unique this was, but the 1960 Peugeot 403 Cabriolet -- best
>>remembered as Lietenant Columbo's car -- had a gas tank that you could only
>>fill by lifting the left tail light assemby, which swung up on a hinge. The
>>fill pipe was hidden behind those tail lights. Those wacky French!
>
>
> Pre-1963 (or so) VWs didn't have an outside fuel flap, so you had to
> life the 'hood' (the part in front, not the engine cover in back.)
Mid-1970's Porsche 914's had the same in-trunk filler.
>
> Oh, and mid-60's Pontiacs had the fuel filler behind the rear license
> plate.
An extremely common location. And a real PITA if you had a trailer hitch.
Lon
Some even had a little valve just behind the driver's seat that allowed
you to enable the flow of fuel between the two tanks. e.g. the 50's
series Jaguar sedans and coupes. Folklore was that these were very
popular moonshiner cars, as the shine could be put in one tank, and if
the revenuers gave chase, opening the valve would allow the shine to be
burned as fuel.
Lon "...the gasoline was much smoother--and aged longer" Stowell
Derek Lyons
>On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 11:11:27 -0500, Lee Ayrton <lay...@panix.com>
>typed furiously:
>>
>>The 1958 Cadillac hearse (made by Miller Meteor) that a friend owned had
>>the same filler location. A few other large 1960s[L] cars had similar
>>styling.
>
>My 1973 Toyota Corolla had the filler behind the plate as well. It was
>reasonably common for the period/
It sure made getting in line at the gas pumps easier - as you could
just get in whichever one was shortest.
Derek "of course that would be the slowest moving" Lyons
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL
David
typed furiously:
>David <faro...@picknowl.com.au> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 11:11:27 -0500, Lee Ayrton <lay...@panix.com>
>>typed furiously:
>>>
>>>The 1958 Cadillac hearse (made by Miller Meteor) that a friend owned had
>>>the same filler location. A few other large 1960s[L] cars had similar
>>>styling.
>>
>>My 1973 Toyota Corolla had the filler behind the plate as well. It was
>>reasonably common for the period/
>
>It sure made getting in line at the gas pumps easier - as you could
>just get in whichever one was shortest.
>
>Derek "of course that would be the slowest moving" Lyons
LOL. Of course!
Lee Ayrton
> On 23 Jan 2006 07:42:51 -0800, "Brian Huntley"
> <brian_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Oh, and mid-60's Pontiacs had the fuel filler behind the rear license
>>plate.
>
> ISTR that was pretty common in the 1960s.
We're well into pico-minutiae here, but the filler behind the license
plate was extant in the USofA at least as late as the 1982 Malibu.
--
God was my co-pilot, but we crashed in the Andes and I had to eat Him.
Lee Ayrton
> Some even had a little valve just behind the driver's seat that allowed
> you to enable the flow of fuel between the two tanks. e.g. the 50's
> series Jaguar sedans and coupes. Folklore was that these were very
> popular moonshiner cars, as the shine could be put in one tank, and if
> the revenuers gave chase, opening the valve would allow the shine to be
> burned as fuel.
>
> Lon "...the gasoline was much smoother--and aged longer" Stowell
Damned straight on both accounts. White lightning /earned/ its jagged,
searing name.
By far the most amusing exchange concerning ETOH that I've heard in a
long while occurred during a _Good Eats_ episode. The victi^W guest is
describing how charring the barrel is essential to making palatable
whiskey and how the liquor in the barrel extracts flavors from the wood
as it ages. Sayeth the Host: "So, in a way, what you distill is a
solvent that extracts burnt wood."
Cite:
<URL:http://www.goodeatsfanpage.com/Season9/eggnog/eggnog_tran.htm> page
down to "Scene 3".
David Scheidt
:Nick Theodorakis wrote:
:> On 23 Jan 2006 07:42:51 -0800, "Brian Huntley"
:> <brian_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
: >
:>>Oh, and mid-60's Pontiacs had the fuel filler behind the rear license
:>>plate.
:>
:> ISTR that was pretty common in the 1960s.
:We're well into pico-minutiae here, but the filler behind the license
:plate was extant in the USofA at least as late as the 1982 Malibu.
It survived until the end of GM's big rear wheel drive cars, the early
90's. One of the things that killed it is that it's hard to get a
vapor recovery nozzle to work well with it. People really like not
having to remember which side the filler is on.
David
TOliver
"David Scheidt" <dsch...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:dr5chk$nv0$1...@reader2.panix.com...
in a near vertical position for easy functioning, but had been told by a
plaintiff's lawyer that liability issues may have played a part in the
demise pf the central hidden filler, originally adopted as a cosmetic
replacement for the ugly spring flap spoiling the fender line. Unless
constructed of to an energy absorbing (and more expensive design), the
filler "neck" providing an ideal vector to transmit impact from a "rear
ender" into rupturing a fuel tank at the junction of neck and tank, one of
the ingredients for a "Living Ronson Ad" scenario, much publicized in Pintos
and even today in CrownVic/GranMarquis/Lincum Towncars and limos.
My first California experience with the damn nozzles came with a rental at
Long Beach Grand International Flythrough, a wee puir country boy unable to
make the thing pump gas. What shame!
TM "Learned better since, using siphoning hose from underground tank."
Oliver
Bill Marcum
--
Life can be so tragic -- you're here today and here tomorrow.
Bob Ward
wrote:
>["Followup-To:" header set to rec.arts.comics.strips.]
>On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 10:38:34 -0500, Ted Kerin
> <tf.k...@gte.net> wrote:
>>
>> I don't know how unique this was, but the 1960 Peugeot 403 Cabriolet -- best
>> remembered as Lietenant Columbo's car -- had a gas tank that you could only
>> fill by lifting the left tail light assemby, which swung up on a hinge. The
>> fill pipe was hidden behind those tail lights. Those wacky French!
>>
>Some Chevrolets in the 50s had the gas tank behind a tail light.
That would be a pretty small tank. Most of them had the tank under
the trunk floor, and just had the filler tube behind the tail light
housing.
John Gilmer
>
> The drivers seat was bolted directly onto the gas tank. (So I laughed
> scornfully at Ford Pinto owners, who worried about the gas tank being way
in
> the back.) If the tank ever blew, the driver would have been shot up into
> the sky, like a pilot activating the ejector seat.
I have had a sedan or two in whcih the top of the gas tank was the bottom of
the trunk. There is no "firewall" between the truck and the passenger
compartment.
The Pinto drivers would have been safer with the gas tank centered in the
passenger area. The tank would be protected from any accident that the
passengers could survive.
Note that there is a recent incident in which a Police Crown Victoria (BIG,
rear wheel drive sedan made by Ford) was hit by a truck and the gas tank
went up. The cop's family is suing Ford.
Folks are thinking about the TWA 800 explosion when they worry about car gas
tanks. The true explosion risk is down in the noise. The true risk is
that an accident cause the tank to split open and then some other agent
(steel being scrapped across the pavement) setting the gas on fire.
>
Lee Ayrton
> The Pinto drivers would have been safer with the gas tank centered in the
> passenger area. The tank would be protected from any accident that the
> passengers could survive.
It was noted in another newsgroup that I frequent that, for USofA
market, there has been a steady migration of fuel tanks to locations
medial to the frame rails and axles for just that reason.
> Note that there is a recent incident in which a Police Crown Victoria (BIG,
> rear wheel drive sedan made by Ford) was hit by a truck and the gas tank
> went up. The cop's family is suing Ford.
More than one incident. This National Highway Traffic Safety
Administration report covers post rear crash fires (PRCF) in Ford Crown
Victoria Police Interceptor (CVPI) vehicles from 1983 to 2001.
<URL:http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/studies/CrownVic/Index.html>
"Of the 26 reports, 22 involve law enforcement vehicles (CVPI) and 4
occurred during civilian use. A fatality resulting from thermal
injuries is alleged in 16 of the 26 reports along with 4 reports of
serious burns." 4 of the deaths were in 2001.
The report concludes that the incidence of PRCF is too low to call for
further defect investigation. Of course, from the end of the telescope
where the families of those 20 sit, the problem looks much larger indeed.
> Folks are thinking about the TWA 800 explosion when they worry about car gas
> tanks. The true explosion risk is down in the noise. The true risk is
I see it as a problem of muddled language. Explosion and conflagration
are not definition 1 synonyms, but are treated that way in vulgate English.
John Gilmer
> I see it as a problem of muddled language. Explosion and conflagration
> are not definition 1 synonyms, but are treated that way in vulgate
English.
OK.
The "conflagration" case is where the accident causes the contents of the
fuel tank to be suddenly spread all over the place and then set on fire.
That's your "basic Pinto" fire and the Crown Vic fires.
The "explosion" is where something goes wrong INSIDE the tank which causes
the fuel/air mixture inside to ignite and the resultant pressure causes the
tank to fail. The most famous case was TWA flight 800 but in that case the
fuel tank was BIG enough to put a Pinto inside!
There is the special case where a fire caused by a broken fuel line heats
the gas tank. This might well be considered a sub-set of the
"conflagration" whereby the fuel line is considered an extension of the fuel
tank. I remember that the Crown Vic's had a fuel pump in the gas tank.
There was a sensor in the truck whcih would turn off that pump if something
hits the car.
Peter B. Steiger
> I see it as a problem of muddled language. Explosion and conflagration
> are not definition 1 synonyms, but are treated that way in vulgate
> English.
Funny you should bring that up; the same subject came up in a recent
Slashdot discussion about the Challenger 20th anniversary. Science geeks
try in vain to convince the huddled masses (which in this case includes
me) that the Challenger did not explode: it was falling apart long before
the fuel spilled and ignited, and because the fuel was burning in open
air, there was no explosion - any more than your barbecue "explodes" when
you squeeze that can of fuel onto the glowing coals and it catches fire in
a spectacular burst of flame which is likely to follow the stream back to
the can and then you really will see an explosion that will kill you but I
digress.
Anyway, the problem they have is that we saw the shuttle lift off and in a
very short amount of time bits of it started falling and a large fireball
expanded from the same area. Even if I can accept that the fireball did
not cause the breakup, I still associate "bits of shuttle flying away +
fireball" with "explosion".
--
Peter B. Steiger
Cheyenne, WY
If you must reply by email, you can reach me by placing zeroes
where you see stars: wypbs_**3 at bornagain.com.
ameijers
> John Gilmer wrote:
(snip)
>
> > Note that there is a recent incident in which a Police Crown Victoria
(BIG,
> > rear wheel drive sedan made by Ford) was hit by a truck and the gas tank
> > went up. The cop's family is suing Ford.
>
> More than one incident. This National Highway Traffic Safety
> Administration report covers post rear crash fires (PRCF) in Ford Crown
> Victoria Police Interceptor (CVPI) vehicles from 1983 to 2001.
> <URL:http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/studies/CrownVic/Index.html>
>
> "Of the 26 reports, 22 involve law enforcement vehicles (CVPI) and 4
> occurred during civilian use. A fatality resulting from thermal
> injuries is alleged in 16 of the 26 reports along with 4 reports of
> serious burns." 4 of the deaths were in 2001.
>
> The report concludes that the incidence of PRCF is too low to call for
> further defect investigation. Of course, from the end of the telescope
> where the families of those 20 sit, the problem looks much larger indeed.
>
to spend more time in the target zone as the tail-end vehicle of a chain of
cars on the side of the interstate. They are no more likely to blow up than
any other big car when hit in the rear at highway speed. (and is anyone
screaming about all the taxicabs and Lincon town cars riding on the same
mechanicals?) They did a few tweaks to slightly reduce the risk, but that
was more a PR thing than any significant change. The cars met or exceeded
all crash standards (as did the Pinto, which was not a bad car by 1971
standards.) There is no practical way to make a car impact proof without
doubling the cost by going to a full NASCAR-style cage frame and fuel cell
setup. Perhaps cops do need a purpose-built vehicle, looking something like
a cross between a Mad Max dune buggy and the latest Batmobile, but the
taxpayers wouldn't stand for it. Changing the vehicle stop protocols to pull
further off the road when possible, and avoid stops in narrow shoulder
areas, would improve the odds as well, and some departments have done that,
IIRC.
aem sends...
John Gilmer
> >
> The Crown Vic fires are high profile because they are cop cars, which tend
> to spend more time in the target zone as the tail-end vehicle of a chain
of
> cars on the side of the interstate. They are no more likely to blow up
than
> any other big car when hit in the rear at highway speed. (and is anyone
> screaming about all the taxicabs and Lincon town cars riding on the same
> mechanicals?) They did a few tweaks to slightly reduce the risk, but that
> was more a PR thing than any significant change.
THE problem with that "line" (the LTD) is that the basic design is over 30
years old. If Ford is required to "fix" the desige, it may decide the
market will not be worth the development costs. The basic design may not
permit making the gas tank much safer than it now is.
Note that GM shut down its production line of BIG rear wheel drive cars
about a decade ago. (The line was converted to pick up trucks.)
> The cars met or exceeded
> all crash standards (as did the Pinto, which was not a bad car by 1971
> standards.) There is no practical way to make a car impact proof without
> doubling the cost by going to a full NASCAR-style cage frame and fuel cell
> setup.
Perhaps. Or perhaps NASCAR level safety can be approached. Maybe
"tweaking" a 30 year old design will not let much progress be made.
>Perhaps cops do need a purpose-built vehicle, looking something like
> a cross between a Mad Max dune buggy and the latest Batmobile, but the
> taxpayers wouldn't stand for it. Changing the vehicle stop protocols to
pull
> further off the road when possible, and avoid stops in narrow shoulder
> areas, would improve the odds as well, and some departments have done
that,
Well, if the pressure increases to make the LTD "safer" Ford will have to
decide whether to start over or just walk away from that market just was GM
decided over 10 years ago.
David Lesher
>On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 20:43:16 UTC, "TOliver" <tolive...@Hot.rr.com>
>wrote:
>> Anecdotal, but owning three, a '64 - first model with a fuel gauge instead
>> of an "emergency jar",
>Actually, there wasn't a separate tank. The fuel tank was in front of
>the dashboard, and within the tank was a standpipe. At the base of
>the pipe was a valve controlled by a handle on the firewall (which
>wasn't really a firewall because the fire was aft, but you know what I
>mean).
And not a handle -- rather a foot-le; as you kicked it over...
--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
David Lesher
> 128 (ObTWIAVBP: the ring road around Boston, Massachusetts) in a
> blinding snowstorm with the windshield slowly getting covered over
> with ice because that feeble little heater couldn't get the
> windshield above freezing, and having to stop under an underpass, get
> out, and clean the windshield with cars whooshing past on the
> slippery roadway.
My driver's side wiper fell off on the Innerbelt one day. I reached
out and saved it, but could not see. I stuck my head out the window
but the blizzard soon turned my glasses into snowballs.
My friend drove from the passenger seat for the next 2 miles....
Lee Ayrton
> "Lee Ayrton" <lay...@panix.com> wrote in message
> news:drl9tl$hv4$1...@reader2.panix.com...
>
>>John Gilmer wrote:
>>>rear wheel drive sedan made by Ford) was hit by a truck and the gas tank
>>>went up. The cop's family is suing Ford.
>>
>>More than one incident. This National Highway Traffic Safety
>>Administration report covers post rear crash fires (PRCF) in Ford Crown
>>Victoria Police Interceptor (CVPI) vehicles from 1983 to 2001.
>><URL:http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/studies/CrownVic/Index.html>
>>
>>"Of the 26 reports, 22 involve law enforcement vehicles (CVPI) and 4
>>occurred during civilian use. A fatality resulting from thermal
>>injuries is alleged in 16 of the 26 reports along with 4 reports of
>>serious burns." 4 of the deaths were in 2001.
>>
>>The report concludes that the incidence of PRCF is too low to call for
>>further defect investigation. Of course, from the end of the telescope
>>where the families of those 20 sit, the problem looks much larger indeed.
>
> The Crown Vic fires are high profile because they are cop cars, which tend
> to spend more time in the target zone as the tail-end vehicle of a chain of
Yesss. Anyone who followed the link above probably read the part that
says "the CVPI vehicles have a much greater exposure to high-energy rear
impacts
due to the nature of their use as blocker vehicles at crash scenes or
during
routine traffic stops along high-speed public roads." The point was
that the
incidence as >1 and <[manufacturing defect]. The commentary
acknowledged that when one is subjected to involuntary immolation the
apparent frequency to that person's family is non-zero.
> cars on the side of the interstate. They are no more likely to blow up than
> any other big car when hit in the rear at highway speed. (and is anyone
Yes, that was the NHTSA's conclusion, too. The deaths are spectacular
and so have a high apparent frequency, but aren't out of the normal
range of risk.
> screaming about all the taxicabs and Lincon town cars riding on the same
> mechanicals?) They did a few tweaks to slightly reduce the risk, but that
Ah, well, now that you mention it, yes, a few anyones are screaming
about it. Perhaps the loudest screaming is coming from the family of
three sisters who burned to death in a CV-based limo in September, 2003.
While it is not really screaming, one Senator from New York recently
asked Ford to provided plastic shields for CV-based taxis following the
second death by fire of a cabbie in his home state.
> was more a PR thing than any significant change. The cars met or exceeded
> all crash standards (as did the Pinto, which was not a bad car by 1971
> standards.) There is no practical way to make a car impact proof without
> doubling the cost by going to a full NASCAR-style cage frame and fuel cell
Coincidence of no statistical significance: One of the three sisters
mentioned above was the wife of NASCAR driver Dale Jarrett's crew
chief.[1] Ford had designed a risk-reducing procedure involving
replacing a few bolts with round-headed fasteners and grinding a few
sharp edges that was provided to police departments but not to civilian
fleet operators (like the limo operator) nor to individual owners.
The cost for a kit of plastic shields designed to protect the fuel tank
from puncture is $100.[1]
The city of Dallas opted to install a fire suppression system in their
CVPI fleet at an estimated cost of $350 per vehicle.[2]
Your straw man just caught fire.
[1] <URL:http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?scid=135&did=1179>
An article that is obviously not neutral on the subject.
[2] <URL:http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/ford_dallas.html>
Dr H
On Tue, 24 Jan 2006, Lee Ayrton vociferated:
}By far the most amusing exchange concerning ETOH that I've heard in a long
}while occurred during a _Good Eats_ episode. The victi^W guest is describing
}how charring the barrel is essential to making palatable whiskey and how the
}liquor in the barrel extracts flavors from the wood as it ages. Sayeth the
}Host: "So, in a way, what you distill is a solvent that extracts burnt wood."
In a way...
Dr H
Reunite Gondwanaland (Mary Shafer)
Ciszek) wrote:
> In article <kedamono.Poit-4F4...@text-west.newsfeeds.com>,
> John Reiher <kedamo...@Narf.mac.com> wrote:
> >
> >That just smells of being an Urban Legend.
> >
> >To roast your feet, the temperature would have to very high and would
> >possibly melt the plastic in the vents long before it would roast your
> >feet.
>
> "Roast" may be an exageration, but there are numerous accounts of
> people with decreased sensation allowing extremities to become hot
> enough to cause tissue damage.
A former cow-orker had his feet severely burned while driving; he
didn't feel any pain because he's a paraplegic with a severed spinal
cord. He only figured out something was wrong because of the odor.
Mary
--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer
We didn't just do weird stuff at Dryden, we wrote reports about it.
reunite....@gmail.com or mil...@qnet.com
Nick Spalding
<sdfb129ob5s5qlpkb...@4ax.com>
on Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:47:06 -0800:
> On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:28:12 +0000 (UTC), nos...@nospam.com (Paul
> Ciszek) wrote:
>
> > In article <kedamono.Poit-4F4...@text-west.newsfeeds.com>,
> > John Reiher <kedamo...@Narf.mac.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >That just smells of being an Urban Legend.
> > >
> > >To roast your feet, the temperature would have to very high and would
> > >possibly melt the plastic in the vents long before it would roast your
> > >feet.
> >
> > "Roast" may be an exageration, but there are numerous accounts of
> > people with decreased sensation allowing extremities to become hot
> > enough to cause tissue damage.
>
> A former cow-orker had his feet severely burned while driving; he
> didn't feel any pain because he's a paraplegic with a severed spinal
> cord. He only figured out something was wrong because of the odor.
Hey Mary, are you trying to upstage Ed Rice.
--
Nick Spalding
Charles Wm. Dimmick
> Reunite Gondwanaland (Mary Shafer) wrote, in
> <sdfb129ob5s5qlpkb...@4ax.com>
> on Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:47:06 -0800:
>>A former cow-orker had his feet severely burned while driving; he
>>didn't feel any pain because he's a paraplegic with a severed spinal
>>cord. He only figured out something was wrong because of the odor.
>
> Hey Mary, are you trying to upstage Ed Rice.
Which reminds me; I spoke with Ed Rice on the phone this
afternoon, for about 13 minutes. He's doing just fine, and
you may very well see him pop in again here when he gets
time. He has saved some messages from last year which he
hasn't yet gotten around to answering.
Charles