``You bought Michael a fish?''
``He wants a dog, John ... a fish is easier. Besides, he has
to learn how to be responsible with a pet.''
CROW: And it's not as if fish were living creatures like dogs or
something important like that.
--
Joseph Nebus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> CROW: And it's not as if fish were living creatures like dogs or
> something important like that.
Well... I hate to be speciesist, but I have to admit I wouldn't feel as
bad about a goldfish dying from neglect than I would about a puppy.
--
Peter B. Steiger
Cheyenne, WY
If you must reply by email, you can reach me by placing zeroes where
you see stars: wypbs.**1 at gmail.com (yes, that's a new address)
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Also, as a practical matter, goldfish *are* easier to care for that dogs.
Feed them, clean the bowl and change the water from time to time. It's not
like you have to take a goldfish for walkies.
--
Rob Wynne / The Autographed Cat / d...@america.net
http://www.autographedcat.com/ / http://autographedcat.livejournal.com/
Gafilk 2009: Jan 9-11, 2009 - Atlanta, GA - http://www.gafilk.org/
Aphelion - Original SF&F since 1997 - http://www.aphelion-webzine.com/
> Well... I hate to be speciesist, but I have to admit I wouldn't feel as
> bad about a goldfish dying from neglect than I would about a puppy.
> Peter B. Steiger
But then again...
Ha ha! True enough, but that doesn't mean they're all
equal in *my* sight. You should have seen me slaughtering
moths by the dozens under our porch light last night.
At least you didn't go this far...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0kJHQpvgB8
> Also, as a practical matter, goldfish *are* easier to care for that dogs.
> Feed them, clean the bowl and change the water from time to time.
Regrettably, that's not true, though it's one of the misconceptions
about goldfish that I've grown weary of trying to correct. Goldfish can
live 40 years. They should live at least 20. They're not short-lived,
and the fact that everyone thinks they are is a symptom of the fact that
few people care for them properly. Most people's goldfish probably
spend their short lives slowly dying of ammonia poisoning.
Goldfish can't be kept adequately in bowls. The absolute minimum
generally recommended for goldfish is ten gallons per fish. Goldfish
tanks need to be ammonia cycled like any other fish tank, which I can
tell you is a real hassle. I could go on, but I'm sure no one really
wants me to. The point is, goldfish -- any fish -- are not
low-maintenance, and in fact I think they may be harder to keep than a
dog or a cat. They require less time commitment and lifestyle change,
sure. But in some ways their care is more complicated.
I think what most people teach their children by buying them a goldfish
is that cheap pets are disposable.
Heather
And, in rebuttal:
http://www.skepticaleye.com/2008/05/lord-god-made-them-all.html
--
Doesn't the fact that there are *exactly* 50 states seem a little suspicious?
George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'
> In article <txhvk.1208$AB3....@eagle.america.net>,
> Rob Wynne <d...@america.net> wrote:
>
>> Also, as a practical matter, goldfish *are* easier to care for that
>> dogs. Feed them, clean the bowl and change the water from time to
>> time.
>
> Regrettably, that's not true, though it's one of the misconceptions
> about goldfish that I've grown weary of trying to correct. Goldfish
> can live 40 years. They should live at least 20.
Not once the raccoons find the pond, according to my neighbor. (Okay,
strictly speaking, koi.)
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |It's not coherent, it's merely
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |focused.
Palo Alto, CA 94304 | Keith Moore
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
> Not once the raccoons find the pond, according to my neighbor. (Okay,
> strictly speaking, koi.)
A raccoon got at my pond some years back and cleaned out about three
quarters of the approximately 100 fish I had at the time, including my
ten-year-old goldfish, Kant, whom I'd had since college.
Heather
> I think what most people teach their children by buying them a goldfish
> is that cheap pets are disposable.
We have hermit crabs as pets, and people treat them the same way. I
got really upset last year when a family was about to buy one because
the kid had a school project to care for a pet "for two weeks." I
managed to talk them out of it, saying they live for 30 years and get
as big as softballs.
If I hadn't been so upset, I'd have got the teacher's name and school.
What kind of assignment was that?
Check this out
http://users.vcnet.com/rrenshaw/hanako.html
Peter Trei
In the other direction, my father had some ponds dug and stocked
them with goldfish. The local frogs colonised the pond as well. After a
few years the goldfish were a lot bigger than tadpoles and the frogs
just sort of vanished.
--
http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
http://www.cafepress.com/jdnicoll (For all your "The problem with
defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)
http://www.chron.com/apps/comics/buildcp.mpl?c=151&date=2008/8/28
http://www.chron.com/apps/comics/buildcp.mpl?c=151&date=2008/8/29
<_Jym_>
Keep in mind there are peole who don't think fish feel pain, thier
reaction to a hook in their mouth just being a reflex . . .
Hell, there is an argument that putting live lobsters in boiling
water is perfectly humane, as the lobser's nervous system is too
pirmitive to give conclusive evidence they feel pain . . .
> Keep in mind there are peole who don't think fish feel pain, thier
> reaction to a hook in their mouth just being a reflex . . .
>
> Hell, there is an argument that putting live lobsters in boiling
> water is perfectly humane, as the lobser's nervous system is too
> pirmitive to give conclusive evidence they feel pain . . .
I don't have a problem with putting live lobsters in boiling water.
I'm going to eat them.
I have a problem with catching fish and then letting them go. Jesus,
if you're going to engage on that level, have the cojones to follow
through! Why torture them and then pretend that you can turn the
clock back: "Whoops! My bad! Go free, my friend!" Grow the hell up --
nature is about winning and losing.
Mike Peterson
http://nellieblogs.blogspot.com
--
aem sends...
> I have a problem with catching fish and then letting them go. Jesus,
> if you're going to engage on that level, have the cojones to follow
> through! Why torture them and then pretend that you can turn the
> clock back: "Whoops! My bad! Go free, my friend!" Grow the hell up --
> nature is about winning and losing.
If you're willing to eat them, you should be willing to not eat
them too. The catch-and-release thing is about being able to
catch them again, not being too squeemish to eat them. In fact,
it seems even more cold-bloodedly steely-eyed than your manifesto,
Papa.
Mike Beede
The catch-and-release thing is about self-indulgence at the expense of
the fish. I'd rather see people learn to photograph animals if they
don't intend to complete the cycle. I once did a thing about "catch-
and-release deer hunting" as a way for emergency responders to get in
some practice and for doctors to learn about treating gunshot wounds,
but Iraq has since made that grimly un-humorous. Still, hurting an
animal for your own pleasure still doesn't strike me as a terribly
noble pursuit and I live right in the middle of some serious fly-
fishing land. (There are some waters not too far from here where they
actively request that you take the fish home because they've got too
many of them. No joke.)
Mike Peterson
http://nellieblogs.blogspot.com
-Mike
I'll send my fishing relatives over to your house to instruct you on...
whatever it is you do...
-Mike
On Sep 4, 5:38 am, "peter...@SPAMnelliebly.org" <racss...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> The catch-and-release thing is about self-indulgence at the expense of
> the fish. I'd rather see people learn to photograph animals if they
> don't intend to complete the cycle. I once did a thing about "catch-
> and-release deer hunting" as a way for emergency responders to get in
> some practice and for doctors to learn about treating gunshot wounds,
> but Iraq has since made that grimly un-humorous. Still, hurting an
> animal for your own pleasure still doesn't strike me as a terribly
> noble pursuit.
> Mike Peterson
Amen to that! And one of the most ignoble so-called "sports" is fox-
hunting. I love the comment by one of the characters in an Oscar Wilde
play: "The English country gentleman galloping after a fox - the
unspeakable in pursuit of the inedible."
Do that. We'll go up to Jackman and they can pull in some huge lake
trout and we'll fry'em up and eat'em.
Here's a couple of excerpts from the latest Inland Fish and Wildlife
Reports:
"Although the current regulation prevents salmon from being taken from
October through December, even catch and release fishing for salmon is
expected to increase handling stress and associated salmon mortality,
particularly for ripe adult fish. We request that anglers not target
salmon after Sept. 30, but take advantage of the opportunity to catch
and harvest lake trout during a time of the year when most of the
pleasure boat crowd have put their toys to rest, little fishing
pressure exists, and the spectacular early fall foliage provides a
great back drop to any open water fishing experience."
And from up in "The County" ...
"This summer we have had two notably large fish caught in Aroostook
County, one of which will qualify as a new State record.
First, a new state record Arctic charr was caught by Carter
McLaughlin, age 11, of Mapleton on Aug. 20, 2008. A locally common
name for the species is “blueback trout.” This particular fish was
caught at Pushineer Pond, T15R9. Carter was accompanied by his father
Lionel. The charr was 25.4 inches total length and weighed 5.24
pounds.
The previous record was a 4 pound 4 ounce fish caught by Merton Wyman
at Basin Pond in 1958. Arctic charr are a rare fish, occurring in
only 14 lakes and ponds scattered throughout the interior highlands in
northern and western Maine. Normally, Arctic charr in Maine waters
are small (6-10 inches) and inhabit deep, cold water of mountain
lakes. Currently, the greatest threat to these rare fish are
introductions of non-native species of fish that are competitors with
or predators upon Arctic charr.
The second large fish was also a member of the charr family, a lake
trout, commonly called togue in Maine. The fish was 36 inches long
and weighed 20 pounds; it was caught by Wayne McGary at Nickerson Lake
on August 2.
Togue are oftentimes the largest sport fish caught in Maine in any
given year. What is unique about Wayne’s catch is the size of the
water it came from; Nickerson Lake is only 234 acres, a small togue
water for Maine. Typically, the waters we manage for togue exceed
1,000 acres. Togue were first introduced to Nickerson Lake by the
State of Maine in 1960 and has been managed for them ever since along
with brown trout and brook trout. In 1994 togue stocking was
discontinued due to natural reproduction within the lake that was
resulting in a very large population of small togue; in 2002 we
liberalized harvest regulations by reducing the minimum length to 14
inches (down from 18 inches). This change resulted in more togue
being kept by anglers and eventually a dramatic increase in the smelt
population, the togue’s primary forage fish. The increased smelt
population now has a faithful following of anglers who target this
sport fish for not only for their own consumption but also as live
bait. In the next few years, we expect very good growth in the togue
population and we also expect that brown trout will benefit greatly
from the increase in the smelt population. The next large fish report
from Aroostook County might be a brown trout from Nickerson Lake."
We do know something about fish up here in the land of Joshua
Chamberlain.
Mike Peterson
http://nellieblogs.blogspot.com
> Amen to that! And one of the most ignoble so-called "sports" is fox-
> hunting. I love the comment by one of the characters in an Oscar Wilde
> play: "The English country gentleman galloping after a fox - the
> unspeakable in pursuit of the inedible."
Out here (on the Left Coast) fox hunting is done by laying down a scent
(dragging a scent bag) and then chasing after the "scent". No actual
foxes are involved.
jc
Now THAT'S my kind of "fox" hunting!
That's easy for YOU to say! Get off my cloud!
Georg Festrunk
Slovak Falls, Maine
Y'all know everything.
-Mike
Not quite. Can't figure out why you Johnny Rebs are so defensive, 150
years later. I mean, damn, we dropped an atom bomb -- hell, we dropped
TWO atoms bombs -- on the Japanese and it doesn't seem to have put
much of a dent in their self-esteem. We let you keep your horses and
your hunting rifles and you're still pissing and moaning five
generations later. Go invent a Walkman or something ferchrissake and
get over it!
Mike Peterson
Wiseass Falls, ME
The problem is the size of some of y'all's heads.
-Mike "way big"
I guess I had the vague idea that fox hunting involved finding the
fox, and that's how you knew you were done. What do you find that
lets you achieve closure with this scheme? Do the dogs tear apart
the guy pulling the scent bag? I suppose that's another one of
those jobs that immigrants are taking away from American citizens.
Mike Beede
Well, there's Coca-Cola: with two exceptions, the number one soft
drink in every nation it is sold, and arguably the most recognizable
brand name on the planet . . .
--
- ReFlex 76
- "Let's beat the terrorists with our most powerful weapon . . . hot
girl-on-girl action!"
- "The difference between young and old is the difference between
looking forward to your next birthday, and dreading it!"
- Jesus Christ - The original hippie!
<http://reflex76.blogspot.com/>
<http://www.blogger.com/profile/07245047157197572936>
Katana > Chain Saw > Baseball Bat > Hammer
We've got Moxie, yes, we do!
We've got Moxie -- How 'bout you???
Thank you!
I hate the idea of "starter pets". You want to find out if a kid is
responsible enough for a pet, let them dogsit for a weekend or buy 'em
a freaking Tamagotchi or something. Don't get them a goldfish or a
hamster and let the unlucky creature suffer while you teach your kid a
"lesson".
(Nothing against hamsters and fish, by the way, though among the small
animal pets I happen to think rats are the coolest and the most fun.)
- Cindy Kandolf, certified language mechanic, mamma flodnak
flodmail: ci...@nethelp.no flodhome: Bærum, Norway
flodweb: http://www.flodnak.com/
> CROW: And it's not as if fish were living creatures like dogs or
> something important like that.
And so begins 30 more years of knee-jerk FOOB-bashing.
JGM
The point being, majority opinion only means so much... otherwise
McDonalds would be considered the best restaurant, and Windoze would be
considered an operating system.
Disclaimer: I do use Windoze, and I love Coke, and Moxie, well, is a bit
disturbing -- although that guy always singles me out to watch....
--
Paul
I was just glad someone else called this out so I didn't have to.
Usually it's my job here to register complaints about portrayals of
pets.
Heather
Phew.
Good thing you're not reading this one:
http://tinyurl.com/62sk42
Though actually it may be more on your side than not. The arc hasn't
played out yet.
Mike Peterson
http://nellieblogs.blogspot.com
They've learned that if you hang around, the nice fisherman will take
all the fight out of a nice fat trout or salmon, and then put it back
in the water for you. I'm told they are becoming like seagulls
following a commercial fishingboat at sea, just waiting to pounce on
an exhausted fish.
One fellow had caught a big enough fish that he wanted a photo, so he
pulled it up close to the boat and was trying to one-hand his camera
when the water exploded -- a loon had dived under and come up,
snagging the fish (which was still on the line) and basically
snatching it out of his hand. For a moment, he had fish and loon on
his line, but the loon resolved that quickly and took off with his
meal.
I don't mind feeding loons, mind you. But it's odd for a bird normally
seen as somewhat solitary and elusive becoming such a bold pest --
catch-and-release fishing may become for loons what open garbage dumps
were for bears! We've had two reports of people this summer coming
across distressed loons that were tangled in fishline and freeing
them. Haven't heard of any fishermen admitting involvement, but it is
a curiosity.
Mike Peterson
http://nellieblogs.blogspot.com
> Incidentally, one more comment on catch-and-release: IF&W reported,
> and I've had several fishermen confirm since, that the loons have
> tumbled onto the concept of catch-and-release, [...]
This far into the post, I thought it was going to be about PETA.
--
Sherwood Harrington
Boulder Creek, California
> Though actually it may be more on your side than not. The arc hasn't
> played out yet.
Well, it depicts the deplorable practice of giving out live animals as
carnival prizes, but doesn't seem to endorse it. And the fish are put
in an aquarium (the artist even drew what looks to be a power filter)
rather than a bowl. So I don't see anything *too* objectionable in that
story arc so far.
Thanks for pointing this out to me -- imagine if I missed a chance to
comment on the portrayal of goldfish in comic strips. It's been ages
since the last Mallard Fillmore goldfish strip and I'm getting rusty.
Heather
> I have a problem with catching fish and then letting them go. Jesus,
> if you're going to engage on that level, have the cojones to follow
> through! Why torture them and then pretend that you can turn the
> clock back: "Whoops! My bad! Go free, my friend!" Grow the hell up --
> nature is about winning and losing.
Fred: Going fishing?
Hugh: I sure am. . .want to come?
Fred: What do you use for bait?
Hugh: Bait? Oops. . .I forgot.
Fred: Now. . .don't panic!! What is your *basic* reason
for going fishing?
Hugh: Well. . .when I get up tight I like to *kill* fish!!
I don't *like* fish!!
Fred: Then use this *detergent*!! Dump it in the stream!!
Wow! Does this stuff kill fish!!
Hugh: Somehow fishing with a washday miracle seems
a little strange. . . .
[Dan O'Neill, sometime in the 1960s. . . .]
--
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
The capacity to wreak destruction with your models
provides the ultimate respectability.
- Emanuel Derman
> Thanks for pointing this out to me -- imagine if I missed a chance to
> comment on the portrayal of goldfish in comic strips. It's been ages
> since the last Mallard Fillmore goldfish strip and I'm getting rusty.
You're in luck, then. It's apparently Goldfish Week in the comics. In
addition to the ongoing stories in FBOFW and Edge City, there's
Thursday's Hi and Lois:
http://www.chron.com/apps/comics/showComick.mpl?date=20080904&name=Hi_and_Lois
And today's Garfield:
http://www.chron.com/apps/comics/showComic.mpl?date=2008/9/6&name=Garfield
Now all we need is for Jeremy and Hector to dig another koi pond...
--Robin
Pooch Cafe, too, past couple weeks:
> http://www.gocomics.com/poochcafe/2008/08/30
Latest at:
http://poochcafe.com/
--
pax,
ruth
Save trees AND money! Buy used books!
http://stores.ebay.com/Noir-and-More-Books-and-Trains