Trudeau Mentions Mallard
Alex
on:
" In his 10/21 strip Mallard Fillmore says GBT's a liar. Is he?
-- J. Smolin, Ames, Iowa
Who says irony is dead? The duck lays two big whoopers himself by claiming
that Trudeau accused Dan Quayle of using drugs and that he called Rush Limbaugh
a racist. In fact, he did neither -- quickly verified by firing up our
easy-as-pie search engine. The Quayle strips asserted only that the vice
president's accuser had been maltreated by prison authorities (documented), and
that Quayle had a DEA file (confirmed by the DEA). As for Limbaugh, GBT never,
ever called the popular broadcaster a racist -- he called him a flaming, Nazi
gasbag. "
Alex
"If [Sept. 11th] was our Pearl Harbor, what will be our Hiroshima?"
--note scribbled on a WTC memorial pictured in Rolling Stone
Bill Roper
Alex <tacob...@aol.com> wrote:
>On the official Doonesbury website, the Q&A is about Mallard Fillmore. Read
>on:
>
>" In his 10/21 strip Mallard Fillmore says GBT's a liar. Is he?
>-- J. Smolin, Ames, Iowa
>
> Who says irony is dead? The duck lays two big whoopers himself by claiming
>that Trudeau accused Dan Quayle of using drugs and that he called Rush Limbaugh
>a racist. In fact, he did neither -- quickly verified by firing up our
>easy-as-pie search engine. The Quayle strips asserted only that the vice
>president's accuser had been maltreated by prison authorities (documented), and
>that Quayle had a DEA file (confirmed by the DEA). As for Limbaugh, GBT never,
>ever called the popular broadcaster a racist -- he called him a flaming, Nazi
>gasbag. "
Not that I've read Mallard Fillmore more than twice (since I would only see
it when out of town), but saying that you didn't call someone a racist, you
only called them a Nazi is disingenuous.
Unless, of course, you think that all that talk about Aryan superiority
had nothing at all to do with race...
--
Bill Roper, ro...@xnet.com
Dave Doty
> Not that I've read Mallard Fillmore more than twice (since I would only
> see it when out of town), but saying that you didn't call someone a
> racist, you only called them a Nazi is disingenuous.
Possibly true, but he also may have been drawing parallels to fascist
government rather than their racial policies. After all, I don't think he
was referring to Limbaugh's sharing the Nazi position on the Polish
Corridor, either.
Dave Doty
Rob Wynne
>Not that I've read Mallard Fillmore more than twice (since I would only see
>it when out of town), but saying that you didn't call someone a racist, you
>only called them a Nazi is disingenuous.
I don't think he was being disingenuous, i think he was just trying
to be funny. (BTW, Hi Bill!)
Rob
--
Rob Wynne / The Autographed Cat / d...@america.net
The best original science-fiction and fantasy on the web:
Aphelion Webzine: http://www.aphelion-webzine.com/
Gafilk 2002: Jan 11-13, 2002, Atlanta, GA -- http://www.gafilk.org/
MEPeterson
writes:
>Bill Roper <ro...@typhoon.xnet.com> wrote:
>>Not that I've read Mallard Fillmore more than twice (since I would only see
>>it when out of town), but saying that you didn't call someone a racist, you
>>only called them a Nazi is disingenuous.
>
>I don't think he was being disingenuous, i think he was just trying
>to be funny. (BTW, Hi Bill!)
"Nazi" is frequently used interchangeably with "fascist" as a provocative way
to insult a right-wing law-and-order type. It is not necessarily
interchangeable with "racist" and usually only takes on that implication when
the connection is obvious -- that is, when you are dealing with an obvious
racist who might also be called a fascist.
It is kind of funny to defend yourself against a charge of calling someone a
racist by saying, no, I called him a Nazi. But let's not forget that the series
of strips was based on Trudeau's alleged dishonesty, unfairness and inaccuracy,
a pretty ridiculous accusation coming from Tinsley, who, for example, has
repeated the "I invented the Internet" accusation against Al Gore, which is
genuinely false, as anyone who did the minimum research expected of a
commentator would know.
Mike Peterson
Glens Falls NY
Chris Clarke
ro...@typhoon.xnet.com (Bill Roper) wrote:
> Not that I've read Mallard Fillmore more than twice (since I would only see
> it when out of town), but saying that you didn't call someone a racist, you
> only called them a Nazi is disingenuous.
And they say we lefties have no sense of humor.
Trudeau's comment was:
> As for Limbaugh, GBT never, ever called the popular broadcaster a racist --
> he called him a flaming, Nazi gasbag.
An obvious reference to the old joke:
Q: What's the difference between Rush Limbaugh and the Hindenberg?
A: One's a flaming Nazi gasbag; the other's a dirigible.
--
Chris Clarke | Editor, Faultline Magazine
www.faultline.org | California Environmental News and Information
Ian Boothby
Dave Doty <dd...@ou.edu> wrote in message
news:Xns914E6BFDB16...@129.15.2.142...
Rush used the term Nazi to describe Feminists so he can't be too sensitive
about its use.
John
>ever called the popular broadcaster a racist -- he called him a flaming, Nazi
>gasbag. "
"Flaming Nazi Gasbag" is NOT a synonym for racist?
John
>to insult a right-wing law-and-order type. It is not necessarily
>interchangeable with "racist" and usually only takes on that implication when
>the connection is obvious -- that is, when you are dealing with an obvious
>racist who might also be called a fascist.
>
>It is kind of funny to defend yourself against a charge of calling someone a
>racist by saying, no, I called him a Nazi. But let's not forget that the
>series
>of strips was based on Trudeau's alleged dishonesty, unfairness and
>inaccuracy,
>a pretty ridiculous accusation coming from Tinsley, who, for example, has
>repeated the "I invented the Internet" accusation against Al Gore, which is
>genuinely false, as anyone who did the minimum research expected of a
>commentator would know.
Maybe the word "bigoted" should be used more often. Racists, sexists,
homophobes and anti-Semites are not interchangeable, but they are
interchangeable with bigots.
George Grattan
No, not necessarily: it's a reference to an old joke about Limbaugh and the
Hindenberg. Which means that while Trudeau wasn't being particularly civil,
he also wasn't being wholly deceptive, since the remark has a context that
many here haven't recognized.
Not that Trudeau has an exclusive claim on hyperbolic misuse of the term
"Nazi," anyway, as Limbaugh's repeated use of the word "Feminazis" to
describe women with whom he disagrees attests.
Shalom, Peace, Salam,
George Grattan
gra...@rcn.com
"...the point is that not only does time fly and do we die, but that in
these reckless conditions we live at all, and are vouchsafed, for the
duration of certain inexplicable moments, to know it....These are our few
live seasons. Let us live them as purely as we can, in the present."--Annie
Dillard, _Pilgrim at Tinker Creek_.
Rob Wynne
The humour here lies in saying "No, I didn't call him <relatively
mild insult>. I called him <much more vicious insult>".
It's not a particularly clever joke, but I didn't realize it was a
difficult one.
Kevin J. Maroney
>"Flaming Nazi Gasbag" is NOT a synonym for racist?
No--it's a synonym for "argumentative authoritarian demagogue". HTH.
--
Kevin J. Maroney | k...@panix.com
Games are my entire waking life.
D Olz
Nope. It's a synonym for a gay fascist who had WAY too much sauerkraut for
lunch.
Olz
“Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from
religious conviction.”
Blaise Pascal, Mathematician 1670
Wes Rand
It looks like it was hyperbole (as someone else mentioned.) But,no:
most Nazis are racists but not all racists are Nazis.
Bill Roper
Chris Clarke <ccl...@faultline.org> wrote:
>In article <9s0ttb$3gu$1...@flood.xnet.com>,
> ro...@typhoon.xnet.com (Bill Roper) wrote:
>
>> Not that I've read Mallard Fillmore more than twice (since I would only see
>> it when out of town), but saying that you didn't call someone a racist, you
>> only called them a Nazi is disingenuous.
>
>And they say we lefties have no sense of humor.
>
>Trudeau's comment was:
>
>> As for Limbaugh, GBT never, ever called the popular broadcaster a racist --
>> he called him a flaming, Nazi gasbag.
>
>An obvious reference to the old joke:
>
>Q: What's the difference between Rush Limbaugh and the Hindenberg?
>A: One's a flaming Nazi gasbag; the other's a dirigible.
On the contrary, I think it's a *wonderful* joke. Always did.
I'm merely objecting to the concept that calling someone a Nazi is not
somehow equivalent to saying that they are racist.
--
Bill Roper, ro...@xnet.com
Chris Clarke
ro...@typhoon.xnet.com (Bill Roper) wrote:
> I'm merely objecting to the concept that calling someone a Nazi is not
> somehow equivalent to saying that they are racist.
That's the whole point of Trudeau's joke, son. think of it this way:
what if Trudeau had said "I didn't say Limbaugh stinks; I said turkey
vultures drop dead of the stench just from listening to his radio
program"? It's a humorous intensification.
George Grattan
In this case, Bill, it's not wholly equivalent, because it is in direct
reference to the joke, as you yourself point out. Context is everything.
Russell Gold
Roper) wrote:
> >An obvious reference to the old joke:
> >
> >Q: What's the difference between Rush Limbaugh and the Hindenberg?
> >A: One's a flaming Nazi gasbag; the other's a dirigible.
>
> On the contrary, I think it's a *wonderful* joke. Always did.
>
> I'm merely objecting to the concept that calling someone a Nazi is not
> somehow equivalent to saying that they are racist.
Are you suggesting that Seinfeld's "Soup Nazi" is biased against minestrone?
--
Russell Gold
russ...@acm.org
http://www.httpunit.org
Mark Jackson
We're not talking about "somehow equivalent" in the abstract here;
we're talking about the vaildity of "Trudeau is a liar because he called
Limbaugh a racist, which he isn't." If *that's* a justifiable statement
then Tinsley could as well have said, "Trudeau is a liar because he
called Limbaugh an anti-semite, which he isn't," or "Trudeau is a liar
because he called Limbaugh a mass murderer, which he isn't," or even
(based on an alternate reading of the same joke) "Trudeau is a liar
because he called Limbaugh a dirigible, which he isn't."
--
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
After a recent trip to New York one French journalist remarked that
leafing through a copy of /Forbes/ or /Fortune/ is like reading the
operating manual of a strangely sanctimonious pirate ship.
- Adam Gopnik
Keith Calvert Ivey
>ro...@typhoon.xnet.com (Bill Roper) wrote:
>> I'm merely objecting to the concept that calling someone a Nazi is not
>> somehow equivalent to saying that they are racist.
>
>Are you suggesting that Seinfeld's "Soup Nazi" is biased against minestrone?
Or that Limbaugh is implying that feminists are racists when he
calls them Feminazis?
--
Keith C. Ivey <kci...@cpcug.org>
Washington, DC
George Grattan
> russ...@acm.org (Russell Gold) wrote:
>> ro...@typhoon.xnet.com (Bill Roper) wrote:
>
>>> I'm merely objecting to the concept that calling someone a Nazi is not
>>> somehow equivalent to saying that they are racist.
>>
>> Are you suggesting that Seinfeld's "Soup Nazi" is biased against minestrone?
>
> Or that Limbaugh is implying that feminists are racists when he
> calls them Feminazis?
Well done. I'm annoyed *I* didn't think of this one. :-)
Bill Roper
Chris Clarke <ccl...@faultline.org> wrote:
>In article <9s4ifq$ue$1...@flood.xnet.com>,
> ro...@typhoon.xnet.com (Bill Roper) wrote:
>
>> I'm merely objecting to the concept that calling someone a Nazi is not
>> somehow equivalent to saying that they are racist.
>
>That's the whole point of Trudeau's joke, son. think of it this way:
>what if Trudeau had said "I didn't say Limbaugh stinks; I said turkey
>vultures drop dead of the stench just from listening to his radio
>program"? It's a humorous intensification.
Maybe that was intended to be a joke. I haven't been to the site; I've
only seen it quoted out of context in this newsgroup.
--
Bill Roper, ro...@xnet.com
Bill Roper
Keith Calvert Ivey <kci...@cpcug.org> wrote:
>russ...@acm.org (Russell Gold) wrote:
>>ro...@typhoon.xnet.com (Bill Roper) wrote:
>
>>> I'm merely objecting to the concept that calling someone a Nazi is not
>>> somehow equivalent to saying that they are racist.
>>
>>Are you suggesting that Seinfeld's "Soup Nazi" is biased against minestrone?
>
>Or that Limbaugh is implying that feminists are racists when he
>calls them Feminazis?
Man-haters, I would say, in that case. Those who are prejudiced against
a substantial part of the human race.
The Soup Nazi, of course, just hated everybody.
--
Bill Roper, ro...@xnet.com
MEPeterson
writes:
>>>Are you suggesting that Seinfeld's "Soup Nazi" is biased against
>minestrone?
>>
>>Or that Limbaugh is implying that feminists are racists when he
>>calls them Feminazis?
>
>Man-haters, I would say, in that case. Those who are prejudiced against
>a substantial part of the human race.
>
>The Soup Nazi, of course, just hated everybody.
You're wasting your talent. With that ability to reach, you could be leading
the NBA in rebounds.
Carlos Hernandez
No he didn't, he got along swell with Kramer. It's just that nobody else
understood that he was an artist, and suffered for his craft.
--
Carlos Hernandez Fisher | "Beef makes the crust!"
cahe...@nospam.sfu.ca | -- Gallery of Regrettable Food
remove 'nospam' to reply | www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/
Weird Beard
news:9s6be9$ndr$1...@flood.xnet.com:
>
> Maybe that was intended to be a joke. I haven't been to the site; I've
> only seen it quoted out of context in this newsgroup.
> --
> Bill Roper, ro...@xnet.com
Here's the entire strip (it's part of a week long series where various
characters are listening to Rush and is dated 7-15-94):
Rush is either on TV or the radio.
Mike is sitting on a chair in the living room, listening.
J.J. is in the next room painting
RUSH: Did you see how Clinton is after me again? Folks, don't you think the
president would have better things to do with his time?
You know who started all those jokes about me, don't you...?
MIKE: What jokes? You heard any?
JJ: Sure!...
RUSH: Paid White House staff, THAT'S who!
JJ: What's the difference between Limbaugh and the "Hindenburg"?
RUSH: Your tax dollars at work!
MIKE: I give up.
JJ: One's a flaming Nazi gas bag, the other's just a dirible.
The real irony is that if this joke had used a different name, such as
Clinton of Gore, for example, the ditzoheads would be e-mailing it to all
their friends and laughing their socks off. But because it's about Rush,
whom I believe has grown larger than his cause, it's just another example
of the evil liberal media at work.
PS this is a pre-emptive reply, but I can only ever recaall voting for one
Democrat.
Dave Doty
> Maybe that was intended to be a joke. I haven't been to the site; I've
> only seen it quoted out of context in this newsgroup.
Almost all of the site's answers are tongue-in-cheek.
Dave Doty
George Grattan
> ro...@typhoon.xnet.com (Bill Roper) wrote in
> news:9s6be9$ndr$1...@flood.xnet.com:
>
>
>>
>> Maybe that was intended to be a joke. I haven't been to the site; I've
>> only seen it quoted out of context in this newsgroup.
>> --
>
> Here's the entire strip (it's part of a week long series where various
> characters are listening to Rush and is dated 7-15-94):
(Snipped description of Doonesbury strip in question)
>
> The real irony is that if this joke had used a different name, such as
> Clinton of Gore, for example, the ditzoheads would be e-mailing it to all
> their friends and laughing their socks off.
The even *greater* irony is that the joke is not, originally, Trudeau's. It
long predates his use of it in the strip. I'm not sure of the original
source, but I heard it "around" (tm) well before '94.
Bill Roper
Well, you're certainly right about one thing. I'm definitely wasting my
talent by trying to have a rational discussion with folks like you.
Pardon me for not toeing the party line that says Tinsley must be bashed
and that any Tinsley-bashing must be applauded whether it's fair or not.
(And the same comment about Limbaugh.)
Fair's fair for all sides in a discussion, not just the side that you
happen to support.
--
Bill Roper, ro...@xnet.com
Bill Roper
Thanks for the in-context quote of the strip.
Now, this wasn't exactly what I meant, in that I was referring to the
context of the statement where Trudeau said something to the effect of
not calling Limbaugh a racist, but rather a flaming Nazi gas bag.
But I *do* appreciate someone making an effort to shed light rather than
heat on the discussion.
Thank you.
--
Bill Roper, ro...@xnet.com
Bill Roper
Fair enough. If it wasn't meant to be taken seriously, I'll proceed to
not do so. :)
--
Bill Roper, ro...@xnet.com
J.D. Baldwin
In the previous article, Bill Roper <ro...@typhoon.xnet.com> wrote:
> Pardon me for not toeing the party line that says Tinsley must be
> bashed and that any Tinsley-bashing must be applauded whether it's
> fair or not. (And the same comment about Limbaugh.)
I thought this thread started with someone giving Tinsley credit for a
decent little zinger (the Seattle riot T-shirt).
On the other hand, it's a little ironic to read whining about how
unfair it is to lampoon Al Gore for claiming to have invented the
Internet, followed by righteous indignation that Limbaugh calls
feminists "feminazis." The charge against Gore is far closer to
documentable truth than the one against Limbaugh. That is, if you're
trying to be fair.
As for Trudeau, I think he deserves to be criticized for that whole
"Dan Quayle might have bought drugs from this lunatic prison inmate"
thing -- not on grounds of "fairness," necessarily, but because he
drove the "joke" (never especially funny to begin with) into the
ground over and over and over and over again. It was like 30 strips
worth of "Flagee and Ribbon." Or a week of Mallard.
--
_+_ From the catapult of |If anyone disagrees with any statement I make, I
_|70|___:)=}- J.D. Baldwin |am quite prepared not only to retract it, but also
\ / bal...@panix.com|to deny under oath that I ever made it. -T. Lehrer
***~~~~-----------------------------------------------------------------------
George Grattan
> The charge against Gore is far closer to
> documentable truth than the one against Limbaugh. That is, if you're
> trying to be fair.
Which charge? The one that says Limbaugh has used the term "Feminazi" in
reference to feminists and other women with whom he disagrees politically or
the one that he's a "flaming Nazi gas bag"? The first is patently easy to
document.
The second's a bit harder. :-)
Seriously, though, "Feminazi" has been frequently used by Limbaugh- though
I'm not sure he originated it. I'm not saying that's better or worse than
Trudeau's repeating the Hindenberg joke, but merely that Limbaugh's use of
the term is on record, whereas the joke about Gore's having claimed to
invent the internet requires willful distortion of the record.
Which doesn't mean it isn't a good joke.
These things are slippery: I've had numbers of conservative friends do the
"Wanna See Al Gore do the Macarena?" joke on me (another good one), blithely
ignorant of the fact that the joke originated with the man himself.
Oh, how crestfallen they are when I tell them......
MEPeterson
Baldwin) writes:
>On the other hand, it's a little ironic to read whining about how
>unfair it is to lampoon Al Gore for claiming to have invented the
>Internet, followed by righteous indignation that Limbaugh calls
>feminists "feminazis." The charge against Gore is far closer to
>documentable truth than the one against Limbaugh. That is, if you're
>trying to be fair.
Not that we're anywhere near on-topic here, but typing "Gore invent Internet
truth subcommittee" into Google turned up this rather exhaustive and
authoritative page:
http://www.firstmonday.dk/issues/issue5_10/wiggins/#w2
As for documenting the charge that Limbaugh uses the term "feminazis," I would
welcome documentation that he does not.
That is, if you're trying to be fair.
Mike Peterson
Glens Falls NY
Alex
>"Wanna See Al Gore do the Macarena?" joke on me (another good one), blithely
>ignorant of the fact that the joke originated with the man himself.
>
>Oh, how crestfallen they are when I tell them......
I'm not familiar with this...can you explain?
Alex
"If [Sept. 11th] was our Pearl Harbor, what will be our Hiroshima?"
--note scribbled on a WTC memorial pictured in Rolling Stone
Weird Beard
>
> Thanks for the in-context quote of the strip.
>
> Now, this wasn't exactly what I meant, in that I was referring to the
> context of the statement where Trudeau said something to the effect of
> not calling Limbaugh a racist, but rather a flaming Nazi gas bag.
>
> But I *do* appreciate someone making an effort to shed light rather
> than heat on the discussion.
>
> Thank you.
> --
> Bill Roper, ro...@xnet.com
>
From Doonesbury's Q&A forum:
Q: In his 10/21 strip Mallard Fillmore says GBT's a liar. Is he?
-- J. Smolin, Ames, Iowa
A: Who says irony is dead? The duck lays two big whoopers himself by
claiming that Trudeau accused Dan Quayle of using drugs and that he called
Rush Limbaugh a racist. In fact, he did neither -- quickly verified by
firing up our easy-as-pie search engine. The Quayle strips asserted only
that the vice president's accuser had been maltreated by prison authorities
(documented), and that Quayle had a DEA file (confirmed by the DEA). As for
Limbaugh, GBT never, ever called the popular broadcaster a racist -- he
called him a flaming, Nazi gasbag.
Unfortunately, King Feature's web sites doesn't seem to have Sunday strips.
Anyone got a copy and willing to quote it?
Russell Gold
tacob...@aol.com (Alex) wrote:
> >These things are slippery: I've had numbers of conservative friends do the
> >"Wanna See Al Gore do the Macarena?" joke on me (another good one), blithely
> >ignorant of the fact that the joke originated with the man himself.
> >
> >Oh, how crestfallen they are when I tell them......
>
> I'm not familiar with this...can you explain?
At the ... 1992 (?) Democratic convention, Al Gore stood up and said,
"want to see me do the Macarena?" Then, after a brief pause and without
moving a muscle, said, "want to see it again?"
J.D. Baldwin
In the previous article, MEPeterson <mepet...@aol.com> wrote:
> >On the other hand, it's a little ironic to read whining about how
> >unfair it is to lampoon Al Gore for claiming to have invented the
> >Internet, followed by righteous indignation that Limbaugh calls
> >feminists "feminazis." The charge against Gore is far closer to
> >documentable truth than the one against Limbaugh. That is, if you're
> >trying to be fair.
>
> Not that we're anywhere near on-topic here,
It wasn't my intention to waltz in here (where I'm not even a regular)
and stir up a bunch of politics. I'll shut up after this, except on
the direct topic of comics.
> but typing "Gore invent Internet truth subcommittee" into Google
> turned up this rather exhaustive and authoritative page:
>
> http://www.firstmonday.dk/issues/issue5_10/wiggins/#w2
Gore's quote from that source (which is accurate according to others
I've read): "During my service in the United States Congress, I took
the initiative in creating the Internet." That quote is not in
dispute, and a quick glance at the nearest dictionary will show you
that it's not far at all from "I invented the Internet."
There's all sorts of spin and "context" and that sort of thing
surrounding this, and the truth is that Gore does deserve a great deal
of credit for being an early political supporter of funding for this
particular research. However, the phrase "took the initiative in
creating the Internet" is a gross exaggeration of the role he or any
other politician played in that research. The chances that he even
personally knew what the hell it was he was voting for are exactly
nil. The guys who were signing the checks over at DARPA didn't even
know where the money was going.
In any case, the Internet was a pretty robust little tool well before
1977, when Gore first went to Congress.
The strongest statement Gore could have made that would have been
justified by the facts might have been more along the lines of:
During my service in Congress, I and my staff took particular
interest in funding research on the Defense Department's
telecommunications network. Several well-known and
highly-respected Internet pioneers have credited me with
supporting work that helped this network become the important
element of our national telecomm infrastructure. I am proud
of my role in mustering early political support for what
turned out to be an extremely important invention.
And maybe that's being a little generous. Anyway, compare it to his
"initiative in creating the Internet" comment.
So he exaggerated. It's what politicians do. It's not the end of the
world. But it *is* funny, and he *does* deserve to be lampooned for
it.
Myself, I found it funnier when he made a reference to that great
Tennessee president, James Knox. (Huh?)
> As for documenting the charge that Limbaugh uses the term
> "feminazis," I would welcome documentation that he does not.
I can't document that, but I feel no shame in this, as your
restatement does not resemble the claim I made. I am sure that this
distortion was unintentional.
I'll leave it to someone who cares more than I do to draw the
distinction between what it means to "refer to feminists as
'feminazis'" and what it meants to "refer to a small handful of the
most radical of self-professed feminists as 'feminazis.'" Oops, I
guess I just did it.
Antonio E. Gonzalez
>Date: 11/05/2001 3:09 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <20011105180936...@nso-mv.aol.com>
Well, since no-one else seems to know, I guess I'll throw this one in.
I was watching Inside Edition a long time ago on the local Fox affiliate,
and they happened to have a "candid interview" with Mr. Limbaugh. I was amazed
at how at-ease he was with the interviewer, especially when compared to one he
did with Barbara Walters, though there was less surprise when Fox News got in
the spotlight.
Anyway, his explanation (along with memories of his high school social life)
was in the interview. He said the biggest issue championed by feminists was
abortion, which he considered the modern holocaust. For this, he equated
feminists with Nazis, thus the term "Feminazis."
- Vaughner
Homer: I don't like Japanese things.
Marge: You liked Rashomon.
Homer: I don't remember it that way
Andrew Ryan Chang
>> but typing "Gore invent Internet truth subcommittee" into Google
>> turned up this rather exhaustive and authoritative page:
>>
>> http://www.firstmonday.dk/issues/issue5_10/wiggins/#w2
>
>Gore's quote from that source (which is accurate according to others
>I've read): "During my service in the United States Congress, I took
>the initiative in creating the Internet." That quote is not in
>dispute, and a quick glance at the nearest dictionary will show you
>that it's not far at all from "I invented the Internet."
With enough spin, yes.
>particular research. However, the phrase "took the initiative in
>creating the Internet" is a gross exaggeration of the role he or any
>other politician played in that research. The chances that he even
>personally knew what the hell it was he was voting for are exactly
>nil. The guys who were signing the checks over at DARPA didn't even
>know where the money was going.
http://www.mids.org/mn/904/vcerf.html
Sez Vincent Cerf:
"VP Gore was the first or surely among the first of the members of
Congress to become a strong supporter of advanced networking while
he served as Senator. As far back as 1986, he was holding hearings
on this subject (supercomputing, fiber networks...) and asking about
their promise and what could be done to realize them."
>The strongest statement Gore could have made that would have been
>justified by the facts might have been more along the lines of:
>
> During my service in Congress, I and my staff took particular
> interest in funding research on the Defense Department's
> telecommunications network. Several well-known and
> highly-respected Internet pioneers have credited me with
> supporting work that helped this network become the important
> element of our national telecomm infrastructure. I am proud
> of my role in mustering early political support for what
> turned out to be an extremely important invention.
>
>And maybe that's being a little generous. Anyway, compare it to his
>"initiative in creating the Internet" comment.
>
>So he exaggerated. It's what politicians do. It's not the end of the
>world. But it *is* funny, and he *does* deserve to be lampooned for
>it.
Outside of Clinton, I can't think of any politician who could be
reasonably expected to come up with such a precise answer as your suggested
example in a live TV interview off the top of his or her head. Most
anyone who answered like that would be edited to soundbite shreds anyways.
Finally, I doubt any Internet pioneer felt the need to set the
record straight before the severe media distortion of the facts, so there
wouldn't have been the credit you mention _at that time_ anyways.
--
"Don't take this to heart, but, you're arguing about OS's, and you're
-not- a geek? I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with being
a geek if you are one, but let us evaluate the nature of the argument."
-jmbuddha(at)infinet.com
Yngvar Folling
ro...@typhoon.xnet.com (Bill Roper) wrote:
> Thanks for the in-context quote of the strip.
>
> Now, this wasn't exactly what I meant, in that I was referring to the
> context of the statement where Trudeau said something to the effect of
> not calling Limbaugh a racist, but rather a flaming Nazi gas bag.
The "context" was the FAQ on the www.doonesbury.com site, as already
said. It is something of a misnomer, as the questions are not
necessarily "frequently asked", but selections of questions emailed in.
The question and answer being discussed in this thread were from last
week. The original post of this thread quoted them in their entirety (as
least as displayed on the site), without leaving anything out.
I am not sure if it was actually Trudeau himself who replied, though, as
"GBT" was written in the third person.
Yngvar
Hans Peter Verne
> From Doonesbury's Q&A forum:
>
> Q: In his 10/21 strip Mallard Fillmore says GBT's a liar. Is he?
> -- J. Smolin, Ames, Iowa
>
> A: Who says irony is dead? The duck lays two big whoopers himself by
> claiming that Trudeau accused Dan Quayle of using drugs and that he called
> Rush Limbaugh a racist. In fact, he did neither -- quickly verified by
> firing up our easy-as-pie search engine. The Quayle strips asserted only
> that the vice president's accuser had been maltreated by prison authorities
> (documented), and that Quayle had a DEA file (confirmed by the DEA). As for
> Limbaugh, GBT never, ever called the popular broadcaster a racist -- he
> called him a flaming, Nazi gasbag.
>
>
> Unfortunately, King Feature's web sites doesn't seem to have Sunday strips.
Actually, sometimes they do.... ;-)
> Anyone got a copy and willing to quote it?
http://folk.uio.no/hanspv/comics/mallard/2001/mallard.2001-10-21.gif
regards,
--
Hans Peter Verne ( hpv @ kjemi.uio.no )
`It would seem that you have no useful skill or talent whatsoever,
have you thought of going into teaching?' -- Terry Pratchett, "Mort"
Rich Carreiro
> Sez Vincent Cerf:
Cerf is a self-avowed huge Gore partisan, so I'd
take his defense of Gore with the grains of
salt it richly deserves.
--
Rich Carreiro rlc...@animato.arlington.ma.us
Elisabeth Riba
site, has called it false: http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.htm
Al Gore never claimed to have invented the Internet.
However, many people involved in the early days of the Internet, such as
Vinton Cerf, Dave Farber, Phillip Hallam-Baker, Robert Kahn and Katie
Hafner have all witnessed and vouched for the important role Gore played.
See
* http://salon.com/tech/col/rose/2000/10/05/gore_internet/print.html
* http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2000/0004.parry.html
* http://www.dailyhowler.com/h032699_1.shtml
* http://commons.somewhere.com/rre/2000/RRE.Al.Gore.and.the.Inte.html
for more details.
Quoting from
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2000/0004.parry.html
Gore's actual comment, in an interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer that
aired on March 9, 1999, was as follows: "During my service in the United
States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet."
Republicans quickly went to work on Gore's statement. In press releases,
they noted that the precursor of the Internet, called ARPANET, existed in
1971, a half dozen years before Gore entered Congress. But ARPANET was a
tiny networking of about 30 universities, a far cry from today's
"information superhighway," ironically a phrase widely credited to Gore.
As the media clamor arose about Gore's supposed claim that he had
invented the Internet, Gore's spokesman Chris Lehane tried to explain. He
noted that Gore "was the leader in Congress on the connections between
data transmission and computing power, what we call information
technology. And those efforts helped to create the Internet that we know
today." [AP, March 11, 1999]
There was no disputing Lehane's description of Gore's lead congressional
role in developing today's Internet. But the media was off and running.
Routinely, the reporters lopped off the introductory clause "during my
service in the United States Congress" or simply jumped to word
substitutions, asserting that Gore claimed that he "invented" the
Internet, which carried the notion of a hands-on computer engineer.
Whatever imprecision may have existed in Gore's original comment, it
paled beside the distortions of what Gore clearly meant. While
excoriating Gore's phrasing as an exaggeration, the media engaged in its
own exaggeration.
Quoting from http://www.dailyhowler.com/h032699_1.shtml:
Gore did take the lead, within the Congress, in promoting and advancing
the technical developments that have led to our now-beloved Net. Heres
what Internet guru Vinton Cerf told the Posts John Schwartz:
SCHWARTZ: Vinton G. Cerf, a senior vice president at MCI Worldcom and the
person most often called "the father of the Internet" for his part in
designing the networks common computer language, said in an e-mail
interview yesterday, "I think it is very fair to say that the Internet
would not be where it is in the United States without the strong support
given it and related research areas by the vice president in his current
role and in his earlier role as senator."
According to Schwartz, Katie Hafner, co-author of a history of the
Internet, "agreed" with that assessment:
SCHWARTZ: Hafner said people have been haggling over the true beginnings
of the network for decades. "...[T]here are so many people who did at
least one pivotal thing in either creating the network, or encouraging
the use of the network, or bringing the network to the public--and Gore
was one of those people."
William Greider wrote this, in a Rolling Stone profile published before
the recent flap:
GREIDER: [Gore] held the first congressional hearings on industrys
casual disposal of toxic wastes and on global warming, and he was an
early champion of the system we now call the Internet.
Chuck Raasch, of USA Today, quoted University of Pennsylvania professor
Dave Farber, whom Schwartz described as "one of the early players in the
Internet:"
RAASCH: Dave Farber, a professor at the University of Pennsylvania, told
[The Commercial Appeal of Memphis], "Gore did not technically create the
Internet, but without him there is a good chance it would not be where
it is today."
--
----------> Elisabeth Anne Riba * l...@osmond-riba.org <----------
"[She] is one of the secret masters of the world: a librarian.
They control information. Don't ever piss one off."
- Spider Robinson, "Callahan Touch"
Wes Rand
INVALID...@example.com wrote on 11/5/01 4:24 PM:
>
> In the previous article, Bill Roper <ro...@typhoon.xnet.com> wrote:
>> Pardon me for not toeing the party line that says Tinsley must be
>> bashed and that any Tinsley-bashing must be applauded whether it's
>> fair or not. (And the same comment about Limbaugh.)
>
> I thought this thread started with someone giving Tinsley credit for a
> decent little zinger (the Seattle riot T-shirt).
>
> On the other hand, it's a little ironic to read whining about how
> unfair it is to lampoon Al Gore for claiming to have invented the
> Internet, followed by righteous indignation that Limbaugh calls
> feminists "feminazis." The charge against Gore is far closer to
> documentable truth than the one against Limbaugh. That is, if you're
> trying to be fair.
I think the "whining" is because it just becomes piling on at some point
(long ago) to lampoon Gore (especially a mischaracterization of what he
said.) Rush has gotten quite a free pass for many of the things he has said
while ridiculing others for similar offenses. And Tinsley follows in this
same vein of pure partisanship trying to be presented as humor. But to
criticize Mallard Filmore is just too easy...but so deserved if just for his
myopic criticism of others.
> As for Trudeau, I think he deserves to be criticized for that whole
> "Dan Quayle might have bought drugs from this lunatic prison inmate"
> thing -- not on grounds of "fairness," necessarily, but because he
> drove the "joke" (never especially funny to begin with) into the
> ground over and over and over and over again. It was like 30 strips
> worth of "Flagee and Ribbon." Or a week of Mallard.
Trudeau certainly can be criticized for many things but he at least spreads
his fire around (including himself on some occasions.)
Alex
>"want to see me do the Macarena?" Then, after a brief pause and without
>moving a muscle, said, "want to see it again?"
Thanks. So that's the joke, then, too?
George Grattan
>> These things are slippery: I've had numbers of conservative friends do the
>> "Wanna See Al Gore do the Macarena?" joke on me (another good one), blithely
>> ignorant of the fact that the joke originated with the man himself.
>>
>> Oh, how crestfallen they are when I tell them......
>
> I'm not familiar with this...can you explain?
1996 Demoncratic National Convention: Gore begins his speech accepting the
nomination of the Clinton/Gore ticket to run for a second term by telling
the crowd he's been watching them dance and asking them if they want to see
his version of the Macarena. He stands still, waits a beat, and asks, "Wanna
see me do it again?"
George Grattan
>
>
> As for documenting the charge that Limbaugh uses the term "feminazis," I would
> welcome documentation that he does not.
I'd welcome that, too, as it would be a neat restructuring of the space-time
continuum, and that's always worth a look-see. :-)
I take it you know Limbaugh uses that term regularly and are merely being
wry?
Anyone who doubts it, just plug "Limbaugh and Feminazi" into a Google
search- the first page of hits alone tells most of the story. Limbaugh makes
the association between the Nazi Holocaust and abortion- hence, women who
support Roe v. Wade are Feminazis. He claims that he reserves this term for
only the most militant feminists, but, as any listener knows, that's a
fairly broad category for him. There are times when he uses the term,
essentially, as his own personal FCC-approved code for "bitch". He uses the
term about as often as Tinsley mocks teachers (often with just cause). It's
a Limbaughian trope, a staple of his commentary.
So clearly both Limbaugh and Trudeau are "guilty" of pointed, rhetorical use
of the term "Nazi" in a hyperbolic sense. Trudeau's use is within the
context of a (repeated) joke, a humorous, if caustic, exaggeration.
Limbaugh's use is "straigher," if you will, intended as an actual signifier
of a category of people and their beliefs. Which one is more offensive?
Damned if I know, really.
But I do know (dragging this back) that Mallard Filmore isn't funny, in my
book, since it seems incapable of poking fun at its own audience and
creator, even occasionally, and since it regularly uses the proverbial two
by four.