Pearls Before Swine: Software Updates

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Lynn McGuire

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Nov 14, 2021, 4:26:17 PM11/14/21
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Pearls Before Swine: Software Updates
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2021/11/14

Is Cook as insistent as Microsoft ?

Lynn

J. Clarke

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Nov 14, 2021, 4:41:33 PM11/14/21
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In that scenario I would have taken Cook downstairs, had him watch me
saw the iphone in half, and then asked him which part of his body he
wanted to be next.

That assumes that I was stupid enough to buy an Apple product in the
first place.

J. Clarke

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Nov 14, 2021, 4:45:12 PM11/14/21
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I would add that I am of the opinion that push updates should be
banned and if they are not banned then any company implementing them
be held strictly liable for all resulting damages, with all court
costs being paid by the company regardless of outcome.

Dorothy J Heydt

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Nov 14, 2021, 5:35:02 PM11/14/21
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In article <9i03pghkpnqai27v8...@4ax.com>,
Sibling!

I worked in a lab for three years where *everybody* used Macs, so
I had to too. I will never touch an Apple product again, not
even with gloves on.

I haven't told this tale for a while, so here goes. The Mac
software had something called "QuickKeys" that allowed one to
push a key instead of manipulating a mouse and clickin on an
icon. These came in a limited set, so I called Cupertino (it was
a local call) and got a nice techie on the phone and asked him
how I could make additional QuickKeys. He said, "You can't. Why
would you want to?"

I said, "So I could use the Mac without ever having to use the
mouse."

He said in honest bewilderment, "Why would anyone ever want not
to use the mouse?"


(So I would never have to take my hands off the (adjectival)
keyboard, you (sulfurous synonym for "nitwit").

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

Mark Jackson

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Nov 14, 2021, 5:53:12 PM11/14/21
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On 11/14/2021 5:22 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> He said in honest bewilderment, "Why would anyone ever want not to
> use the mouse?"
>
> (So I would never have to take my hands off the (adjectival)
> keyboard, you (sulfurous synonym for "nitwit").

Nulla ratio gustum. I first got my hands on a mouse-connected device in
1983 (Xerox Alto) and far prefer working with one.

--
Mark Jackson - https://mark-jackson.online/
The best I can do is freak out in moderation.
- Bob Mankoff

J. Clarke

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Nov 14, 2021, 7:20:50 PM11/14/21
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On Sun, 14 Nov 2021 17:53:08 -0500, Mark Jackson
<mjac...@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:

>On 11/14/2021 5:22 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> He said in honest bewilderment, "Why would anyone ever want not to
>> use the mouse?"
>>
>> (So I would never have to take my hands off the (adjectival)
>> keyboard, you (sulfurous synonym for "nitwit").
>
>Nulla ratio gustum. I first got my hands on a mouse-connected device in
>1983 (Xerox Alto) and far prefer working with one.

The thing that annoys me is touchscreen devices that still require a
mouse and keyboard.

Dorothy J Heydt

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Nov 14, 2021, 8:05:03 PM11/14/21
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In article <ivdial...@mid.individual.net>,
Mark Jackson <mjac...@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
>On 11/14/2021 5:22 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> He said in honest bewilderment, "Why would anyone ever want not to
>> use the mouse?"
>>
>> (So I would never have to take my hands off the (adjectival)
>> keyboard, you (sulfurous synonym for "nitwit").
>
>Nulla ratio gustum. I first got my hands on a mouse-connected device in
>1983 (Xerox Alto) and far prefer working with one.
>

Fair enough; we get used to what we started with. I first got my
hands on a keyboard in (count on fingers) 1956. It was a manual
typewriter, all steel and ribbon, and I learned to touch-type on
it. I use the mouse to open a file, and then I type into it.

Dorothy J Heydt

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Nov 14, 2021, 8:10:02 PM11/14/21
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In article <1u93pgpa6edk46r30...@4ax.com>,
The thing that would annoy the dickens out of me is anything that
required a touchscreen. Everybody to his own taste, said the
good woman as she kissed her cow.

J. Clarke

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Nov 14, 2021, 9:49:08 PM11/14/21
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On Mon, 15 Nov 2021 00:57:22 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>In article <1u93pgpa6edk46r30...@4ax.com>,
>J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On Sun, 14 Nov 2021 17:53:08 -0500, Mark Jackson
>><mjac...@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
>>
>>>On 11/14/2021 5:22 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>> He said in honest bewilderment, "Why would anyone ever want not to
>>>> use the mouse?"
>>>>
>>>> (So I would never have to take my hands off the (adjectival)
>>>> keyboard, you (sulfurous synonym for "nitwit").
>>>
>>>Nulla ratio gustum. I first got my hands on a mouse-connected device in
>>>1983 (Xerox Alto) and far prefer working with one.
>>
>>The thing that annoys me is touchscreen devices that still require a
>>mouse and keyboard.
>
>The thing that would annoy the dickens out of me is anything that
>required a touchscreen. Everybody to his own taste, said the
>good woman as she kissed her cow.

For some things its convenient--I like a device where I can write and
draw on the screen, and for that a keyboard in front gets in the way.
But there is no CTRL or ALT key on the blasted virtual keyboard so
there are some things you can't do.

Mark Jackson

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Nov 14, 2021, 10:08:39 PM11/14/21
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On 11/14/2021 7:55 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <ivdial...@mid.individual.net>,
> Mark Jackson <mjac...@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
>> On 11/14/2021 5:22 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>> He said in honest bewilderment, "Why would anyone ever want not to
>>> use the mouse?"
>>>
>>> (So I would never have to take my hands off the (adjectival)
>>> keyboard, you (sulfurous synonym for "nitwit").
>>
>> Nulla ratio gustum. I first got my hands on a mouse-connected device in
>> 1983 (Xerox Alto) and far prefer working with one.
>>
>
> Fair enough; we get used to what we started with. I first got my
> hands on a keyboard in (count on fingers) 1956. It was a manual
> typewriter, all steel and ribbon, and I learned to touch-type on
> it. I use the mouse to open a file, and then I type into it.

Oh, I took a full year of typing in high school (1961-62) because I hate
to write things out on paper, and had some experience with cursor
arrow-driven text editing before encountering the Alto. I found editing
with the mouse to be much more natural.

Robert Woodward

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Nov 15, 2021, 12:48:11 AM11/15/21
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In article <qm03pgdfc58i7bs5v...@4ax.com>,
And people who ignore security updates run the serious risk of having
all their data stolen by foreign hackers (who might encrypt your data as
well).

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
-------------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robe...@drizzle.com

Scott Lurndal

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Nov 15, 2021, 9:30:29 AM11/15/21
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Mark Jackson <mjac...@alumni.caltech.edu> writes:
>On 11/14/2021 5:22 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> He said in honest bewilderment, "Why would anyone ever want not to
>> use the mouse?"
>>
>> (So I would never have to take my hands off the (adjectival)
>> keyboard, you (sulfurous synonym for "nitwit").
>
>Nulla ratio gustum. I first got my hands on a mouse-connected device in
>1983 (Xerox Alto) and far prefer working with one.

1985 for me, and I still far prefer working without one.

Wolffan

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Nov 17, 2021, 7:56:37 AM11/17/21
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On 2021 Nov 14, Dorothy J Heydt wrote
(in article <r2L98...@kithrup.com>):

> In article<ivdial...@mid.individual.net>,
> Mark Jackson <mjac...@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
> > On 11/14/2021 5:22 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> > > He said in honest bewilderment, "Why would anyone ever want not to
> > > use the mouse?"
> > >
> > > (So I would never have to take my hands off the (adjectival)
> > > keyboard, you (sulfurous synonym for "nitwit").
> >
> > Nulla ratio gustum. I first got my hands on a mouse-connected device in
> > 1983 (Xerox Alto) and far prefer working with one.
>
> Fair enough; we get used to what we started with. I first got my
> hands on a keyboard in (count on fingers) 1956. It was a manual
> typewriter, all steel and ribbon, and I learned to touch-type on
> it. I use the mouse to open a file, and then I type into it.

I started typing on Commodore PET and Apple II desktops, and on a portable
typewriter, in the late 1970s. I was using things like Banks Street Writer on
the Apple, and something I forget entirely on the Commodore. By the early
1980s I was using a Xerox 820, in the engineering computer lab at university;
it had WordStar on it and was connected to a daisy-wheel printer. The
undergrads were not permitted to touch the IBM DisplayWriters, they were for
grad students only, and the Burroughs and Prime minicomputers didn’t have
ward processing software available to mere undergrads. I stopped using my
typewriter as soon as I got access to the Xerox. It sat in its case for years
afterwards, and vanished after a move.

I got a Mac 128, with MacWrite and an Imagewriter (note spelling; InterCaps
happened with the ImageWriter II and the disastrous ImageWriter LQ and was
retrofitted to the Imagewriter by Apple Marketing, but the box my printer
shipped with had a lower case w...) An upgrade to Fat Mac and then Mac Plus
status helped MacWrite a lot, MacWrite was memory-based and 128 kB wasn’t
enough. Microsoft shipped Word, I dumped MacWrite at roughly Mach Two.
Microsoft, even in those days was heavily into command/control key
combinations (Word currently literally has a command/control key combo for
every letter of the alphabet, a shift-command/control key combo for most, and
alt/option combos for a lot. You don’t need a mouse for most things when
you use Word, if you know which combo to use. That would be command keys on
Macs, control keys on Windows/DOS, alt on Windows, option on Macs.)

I also got a Compaq, and put WordPerfect on it. However, once Win3 arrived
and Windows was actually worth a damn, but WordPerfect ignored all GUIs, I
stuck WinWord on it. WinWord was effectively Mac Word, just with control keys
instead of command keys. I’ve used Word on Mac and Windows ever since.

I do a lot of typing, and keep my hands on the keyboard as much as possible.
Apple, in its infinite idiocy, hates extended keyboards with full sets of
navigation keys and a numeric keypad, so I go to a lot of trouble to get
proper keyboards, not Apple keyboards.

John W Kennedy

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Nov 17, 2021, 6:50:59 PM11/17/21
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I don’t know of any laptop with an extended keyboard. On the other hand,
Apple has extended keyboards available on its desktops, including a
fingerprint key on the latest models.

--
John W. Kennedy
Algernon Burbage, Lord Roderick, Father Martin, Bishop Baldwin,
King Pellinore, Captain Bailey, Merlin -- A Kingdom for a Stage!

Wolffan

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Nov 17, 2021, 7:53:46 PM11/17/21
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On 2021 Nov 17, John W Kennedy wrote
(in article<PZudnYS8zdnACAj8...@giganews.com>):
Many 15, 16, 17, and 18” laptops have extended keyboards
> On the other hand,
> Apple has extended keyboards available on its desktops, including a
> fingerprint key on the latest models.

They’re BlueTooth, they’re hideously expensive ($120+ for the white, no
fingerprint, $140+ for the black, no fingerprint, and God knows for the
fingerprint reader models. Yes, the price is different for black and white.
Yes, I can get two Macally keyboards for what one white no fingerprint costs.
Two _Bluetooth_ Macally keyboards, USB versions are cheaper.) and they have
the stupid fn key because the F keys are set to dedicated nonsense which I
never use. On the other hand I use the F keys a lot. F4 is particularly
useful in Excel, and F3 in Word. There’s even a dedicated key to eject an
optical disc... which only works with Apple optical drives, or at least
doesn’t work, by actual test, with Panasonic or LG USB optical drives.

The last Apple keyboard that was any good was the ‘Saratoga’ (officially
the Extended Keyboard and Extended Keyboard II) keyboard, so-called because
it was ‘the size of an aircraft carrier’ according to one review. That
was an ADB keyboard. ADB hasn’t been a thing in a Very Long Tme(™).
https://lowendmac.com/2006/the-legendary-apple-extended-keyboard/

I had a Saratoga keyboard for over 15 years.

Jay E. Morris

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Nov 17, 2021, 10:31:28 PM11/17/21
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On 11/17/2021 5:50 PM, John W Kennedy wrote:
>>
>
> I don’t know of any laptop with an extended keyboard. On the other hand,
> Apple has extended keyboards available on its desktops, including a
> fingerprint key on the latest models.

My last three, HP, Toshiba, HP. All 17" models.

Alan

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Nov 18, 2021, 12:33:54 AM11/18/21
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On 2021-11-17 4:53 p.m., Wolffan wrote:
> On 2021 Nov 17, John W Kennedy wrote

>>> I do a lot of typing, and keep my hands on the keyboard as much as possible.
>>> Apple, in its infinite idiocy, hates extended keyboards with full sets of
>>> navigation keys and a numeric keypad, so I go to a lot of trouble to get
>>> proper keyboards, not Apple keyboards.
>>
>> I don’t know of any laptop with an extended keyboard.
>
> Many 15, 16, 17, and 18” laptops have extended keyboards

And many do not.

>> On the other hand,
>> Apple has extended keyboards available on its desktops, including a
>> fingerprint key on the latest models.
>
> They’re BlueTooth, they’re hideously expensive ($120+ for the white, no

So don't buy an Apple one. You get that any Bluetooth keyboard will
work, right?

> fingerprint, $140+ for the black, no fingerprint, and God knows for the
> fingerprint reader models. Yes, the price is different for black and white.

Oh, heavens! A company charging what it thinks people will pay! It's a
sign of the apocalypse!

> Yes, I can get two Macally keyboards for what one white no fingerprint costs.

Great. Buy one, then?

Or is it not as good?

Alan

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Nov 18, 2021, 12:34:19 AM11/18/21
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Right.

HUGE laptops... ...picked by you, perchance?

Paul S Person

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Nov 18, 2021, 1:08:50 PM11/18/21
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On Wed, 17 Nov 2021 19:53:40 -0500, Wolffan <akwo...@zoho.com>
wrote:

>On 2021 Nov 17, John W Kennedy wrote
>(in article<PZudnYS8zdnACAj8...@giganews.com>):
<snippo>
>> On the other hand,
>> Apple has extended keyboards available on its desktops, including a
>> fingerprint key on the latest models.
>
>They’re BlueTooth, they’re hideously expensive ($120+ for the white, no
>fingerprint, $140+ for the black, no fingerprint, and God knows for the
>fingerprint reader models. Yes, the price is different for black and white.
>Yes, I can get two Macally keyboards for what one white no fingerprint costs.

After years of decline, I finally replaced my "Labtec Internet
Keyboard" ($10.81) with a "Gaming Keyboard" PC232A by PICTEK last
December for $22.01.

It is black, with readable white lettering, and various forms of
backlighting (including none). I am using one of the stationary
choices; the colors change from blue to red from left to white.

Which is apparently what makes it a "Gaming" keyboard. Well, that and
holes in the bottom to let (small) amounts of liquid that get into it
flow right back out again.

It has the standard Function Keys.

It also has an "FN" key that activates various alternative functions
on the function keys and Insert ... Page Down grouping (the latter
control the backlighting). The Windows key is labled "Win" rather than
using the Windows logo.

Compared to the Labtech, the "| /" key is double-wide, with the Enter
key (an arrow pointing left) single-height. This took some getting
used to, as I was apparently accustomed to hitting the upper part of
the backward-L-shaped Enter key on the Labtech. But I'm pretty much
used to it now, although the stray "/" does occasionally still appear
at the end of an entry.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Paul S Person

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Nov 18, 2021, 1:11:41 PM11/18/21
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On Wed, 17 Nov 2021 18:50:53 -0500, John W Kennedy
<john.w....@gmail.com> wrote:

<snippo>
>I don’t know of any laptop with an extended keyboard. On the other hand,
>Apple has extended keyboards available on its desktops, including a
>fingerprint key on the latest models.

By any chance, if a user has such a model, is use of it required to
log in?

Jay E. Morris

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Nov 18, 2021, 9:50:25 PM11/18/21
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Those were yes. But my work ones were also 17". Which were also picked
by me since I was involved in the IT purchasing process.

Alan

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Nov 18, 2021, 11:23:16 PM11/18/21
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On 2021-11-18 10:11 a.m., Paul S Person wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Nov 2021 18:50:53 -0500, John W Kennedy
> <john.w....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> <snippo>
>> I don’t know of any laptop with an extended keyboard. On the other hand,
>> Apple has extended keyboards available on its desktops, including a
>> fingerprint key on the latest models.
>
> By any chance, if a user has such a model, is use of it required to
> log in?
>

Nope.

Dorothy J Heydt

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Nov 19, 2021, 1:10:01 AM11/19/21
to
Well, I once had an IBM Thinkpad, which had a standard-sized
keyboard: it had one of those nasty little touchpads to move the
cursor, and it had no numeric keypad. I was at that time playing
an online game called _Asheron's Call_, which required the use of
a mouse or equivalent, and the numeric keypad. So Hal went out
and bought me a trackball and a keypad, so I could plug them into
the side of the Thinkpad and play my game.

I now have a UNICOMP keyboard with a trackball built into its
upper right corner.

Rink

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Dec 4, 2021, 6:00:17 PM12/4/21
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Op 15-11-2021 om 6:48 schreef Robert Woodward:
> In article <qm03pgdfc58i7bs5v...@4ax.com>,
> J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 14 Nov 2021 16:41:30 -0500, J. Clarke
>> <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 14 Nov 2021 15:26:10 -0600, Lynn McGuire
>>> <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Pearls Before Swine: Software Updates
>>>> https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2021/11/14
>>>>
>>>> Is Cook as insistent as Microsoft ?
>>>
>>> In that scenario I would have taken Cook downstairs, had him watch me
>>> saw the iphone in half, and then asked him which part of his body he
>>> wanted to be next.
>>>
>>> That assumes that I was stupid enough to buy an Apple product in the
>>> first place.
>>
>> I would add that I am of the opinion that push updates should be
>> banned and if they are not banned then any company implementing them
>> be held strictly liable for all resulting damages, with all court
>> costs being paid by the company regardless of outcome.
>
> And people who ignore security updates run the serious risk of having
> all their data stolen by foreign hackers (who might encrypt your data as
> well).
>


What makes you think that there are no hackers in your country?
USA I presume.....

Rink

John W Kennedy

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Dec 4, 2021, 6:55:47 PM12/4/21
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For some years, Russia and some of its neighbors have been well
established safe havens for organized cybercrime. Ask any security expert.

Gary R. Schmidt

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Dec 4, 2021, 9:54:06 PM12/4/21
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> I did - and they said, well, Miami, San Francisco, Seattle, New York,
Sydney, Coober Pedy, ... Really, just about anywhere these days, the
scripts are all over the place, and any 11 year-old knows how to get to
the Dark Web.

State-sponsored hacking - USA, UK, North Korea, Russia, China, Pakistan,
India, ... Again, effectively everywhere.

Cheers,
Gary B-)

J. Clarke

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Dec 4, 2021, 10:25:03 PM12/4/21
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And generally speaking a good firewall (and I really wish they would
quit calling software that runs on the target system "a firewall", it
isn't) will be more effective at blocking attacks that exploit
software bugs than will weekly updates which may introduce more holes
than they patch (contrary to the theory behind "agile" you cannot
properly test an OS the size of Windows in a week).


Paul S Person

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Dec 5, 2021, 11:46:53 AM12/5/21
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On Sat, 04 Dec 2021 22:24:59 -0500, J. Clarke
<jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 13:50:18 +1100, "Gary R. Schmidt"
><grsc...@acm.org> wrote:

<hacking, its prevalence and prevention>

>And generally speaking a good firewall (and I really wish they would
>quit calling software that runs on the target system "a firewall", it
>isn't) will be more effective at blocking attacks that exploit
>software bugs than will weekly updates which may introduce more holes
>than they patch (contrary to the theory behind "agile" you cannot
>properly test an OS the size of Windows in a week).

All things considered, I suspect they could properly Windows in a
decade.

Even if they wanted to.

ObSF: the programming situation in /A Deepness in the Sky/: the system
is so old that it cannot be fixed as such, just by adding new stuff to
correct problems. IIRC, the base OS has the same clock start date as
Unix/Linux.

We may not be there yet, but it is only a matter of time.
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