NEWS: Official Marvel/Lee/Liefeld press release

9 views
Skip to first unread message

Tom Galloway

unread,
Dec 14, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/14/95
to
I've received a faxed directly from Marvel due to a phone call I made to them
press release about Marvel's deal with Jim Lee and Rob Liefeld. So this is
about as official as one can get about this matter. I'll transcribe the
entire press release this evening for posting, but here's the gist of it
and various interesting points.

"Marvel has signed 12 month personal contracts with Jim Lee and Rob Liefeld
to pencil, produce, and reshape a group of classic Marvel characters --
Captain America, The Avengers, Fantastic Four, and Iron Man."

[key significant words here I think are "personal contracts"; note not with
Image/Wildstorm/Extreme. In fact, when I called I initially used the phrase
"Marvel/Image" and was very quickly corrected]

Bob Harras is quoted as saying "Jim and Rob will have total creative
control over every aspect of the four books and everybody who works on
the books, with Jim in charge of FF and Iron Man and Rob in charge of
Captain America and the Avengers. Jim and Rob will personally pencil
at least the first six issue of one of the two titles that they control,
with Jim doing FF and Rob, Captain America."

Books will continue to be Comics Code approved. "Current storylines
featuring these characters will lead directly into Lee's and Liefeld's
plans and will be integrated into a big event this summer."

"...going into 1997, the Marvel Universe and Marvel Comics will look a
lot different than it does today. We'll be making more announcements in
the coming months." [note: I was told there'll be another press conference
in January about the books' editorial direction]

Absent from the press release is any mention of Hulk or Thor, either the
books or the characters. When I called back to ask about this, I was told
about the January press conference. So right now, it appears these two
may still be up in the air.

"Yes, well, that's just the sort of blinkered philistine pig-ignorance I've
come to expect from you non-creative garbage." --Monty Python
tyg t...@hq.ileaf.com

Michael A. Chary

unread,
Dec 14, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/14/95
to

Admiral Thomas Y. Galloway writes:
>I've received a faxed directly from Marvel due to a phone call I made to them
>press release about Marvel's deal with Jim Lee and Rob Liefeld. So this is
>about as official as one can get about this matter. I'll transcribe the
>entire press release this evening for posting, but here's the gist of it
>and various interesting points.

Thanks, tyg, 'preciate it :)

>"Marvel has signed 12 month personal contracts with Jim Lee and Rob Liefeld
>to pencil, produce, and reshape a group of classic Marvel characters --
>Captain America, The Avengers, Fantastic Four, and Iron Man."

Hmm, so this is basically them doing work for hire with Marvel? Is waid
gone from Cap? That seems a shame. However it's not like they can do
anything more to make the *other* titles worse. :)

>[key significant words here I think are "personal contracts"; note not with
>Image/Wildstorm/Extreme. In fact, when I called I initially used the phrase
>"Marvel/Image" and was very quickly corrected]

Very interesting indeed. I can hardly wait to see what David Sim has to say
:)

>Bob Harras is quoted as saying "Jim and Rob will have total creative
>control over every aspect of the four books and everybody who works on
>the books, with Jim in charge of FF and Iron Man and Rob in charge of
>Captain America and the Avengers. Jim and Rob will personally pencil
>at least the first six issue of one of the two titles that they control,
>with Jim doing FF and Rob, Captain America."

Funny, I always picture Captain America with normal shoulders and ankles.
And backgrounds. Cap defitinitely has backgrounds in his comics. Here's a
question: wrt ankle size: if 501 and Ramos shook hands, would they cancel
out?

It will be nice to see Sue Richards with huge breasts and a thong though :)

>Books will continue to be Comics Code approved. "Current storylines
>featuring these characters will lead directly into Lee's and Liefeld's
>plans and will be integrated into a big event this summer."

Oh, joy.

>"...going into 1997, the Marvel Universe and Marvel Comics will look a
>lot different than it does today. We'll be making more announcements in
>the coming months." [note: I was told there'll be another press conference
>in January about the books' editorial direction]

Wow, well, I think this might just make the Bizarro Squiddies for most
egregious understatement in a press award :)

>Absent from the press release is any mention of Hulk or Thor, either the
>books or the characters. When I called back to ask about this, I was told
>about the January press conference. So right now, it appears these two
>may still be up in the air.

Mihgt be nice if they gave PAD total control over them.

--
Court Philosopher and Barbarian, DNRC http://bronze.ucs.indiana.edu/~fchary
"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for
sure that just ain't so." - Yogi Berra
"Ipsa scientia potestas est." - Roger Bacon

Alan D Earhart

unread,
Dec 14, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/14/95
to
Hmmmm...Jim having control over the FF...no more DeFalco...might
be interesting...might make me anticipate the main FF title
once again...might make me stop using ellipses (sp?)...

alan
aear...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu

James Dye

unread,
Dec 15, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/15/95
to

: "Yes, well, that's just the sort of blinkered philistine pig-ignorance I've

: come to expect from you non-creative garbage." --Monty Python


"No, I'm sorry, but we need a block of flats, not an abboittor."


Well, looks like what Marvel is doing is becoming a slaughterhouse.
John Cleese isn't the only artist suffering from pig-ignornace...

James D,

Mark Bernstein

unread,
Dec 15, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/15/95
to
Tom Galloway (t...@netcom.com) wrote:

: Absent from the press release is any mention of Hulk or Thor, either the


: books or the characters. When I called back to ask about this, I was told
: about the January press conference. So right now, it appears these two
: may still be up in the air.

I'll also be curious to learn the fate of the other two Marvel titles I'm
currently buying, Dr. Strange and Captain Marvel. (I'm also picking up
Untold Tales of Spider-Man, but I'm pretty sure that's not going anywhere.)
--
Mark Bernstein
ma...@erim.org

Jacob W Michaels

unread,
Dec 15, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/15/95
to
ZENtertainment (zen...@smartlink.net) wrote:
) Here's the official word on the Marvel / Image Crossover from the
) press conference Marvel held on Thursday.


) ========== WIZARD WORLD ==========
) =========== NEWS FLASH ===========
) Liefeld and Lee Return to Marvel

) The "Unfinished Business" project reunites Lee and Liefeld with Marvel
) for the first time since they left to form Image in 1992. The duo have
) committed to pencil at least the first six issue of the titles they
) control.

*sigh* And I was hoping at least that they would hire good writers and
artists for the books.

) "Jim and Rob will have total creative control over every aspect of the
) four books and everybody who works on the books, with Jim in charge of
) Fantastic Four and Iron Man and Rob in charge of Captain America and
) The Avengers," said Marvel's Editor in Chief Bob Harras.

Damn. Couldn't they have given the one book I read to the guy I like.
Instead, I have to see if I can stomach 6 months of Liefeld. Oh well.
I guess we know now why they wanted Smash Hulk in Avengers again. It'll
look like Liefeld is writing him correctly :)

) According to Harras, the story lines of the four titles will lead
) directly into Lee's and Liefeld's hands and will be integrated in a
) large summer "event." No mention was made regarding other members of
) the creative teams, nor of the fate of the current writers and artists
) currently working on the books.

Hmmm, strange. We don't usually get storylines leading up to new creators.
Makes me wonder if the characters will be put in Image U, as opposed to
just isolating them from Marvel U. Anyone know yet which Avengers (past
and present) will be "written" by the Boys o' Image?

Jacob Sigh

ZENtertainment

unread,
Dec 15, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/15/95
to
Here's the official word on the Marvel / Image Crossover from the
press conference Marvel held on Thursday.

The below info is taken from Wizard World on AOL. (See, they are good
for something.)

Also look for further coverage of the event in the December 18th issue
of my zine, ZENtertainment-
http://smartlink.net/~zentnmt/
Sean

========== WIZARD WORLD ==========
=========== NEWS FLASH ===========


Liefeld and Lee Return to Marvel

The rumors were true. Both Jim Lee and Rob Liefeld will return to
Marvel to take control of The Fantastic Four, The Avengers, Iron Man
and Captain America.

The "Unfinished Business" project reunites Lee and Liefeld with Marvel

for the first time since they left to form Image in 1992. The duo have

committed to pencil at least the first six issue of the titles they

control.

"Jim and Rob will have total creative control over every aspect of the

four books and everybody who works on the books, with Jim in charge of

Fantastic Four and Iron Man and Rob in charge of Captain America and

The Avengers," said Marvel's Editor in Chief Bob Harras.

According to Harras, the story lines of the four titles will lead

directly into Lee's and Liefeld's hands and will be integrated in a

large summer "event." No mention was made regarding other members of

the creative teams, nor of the fate of the current writers and artists

currently working on the books.

"It's all part of Marvel Comics' publishing plan for 1996 so that going

into 1997, the Marvel Universe and Marvel Comics will look a lot

different than it does today," said Harras. "We'll be making more

announcements in the coming months."

Wizard #55 will feature the complete news story with more details and
quotes. Stay tuned to Wizard World online for more daily updates.
--Wizard 12/14/95
Copyright 1995 Gareb Shamus Enterprises, Inc.
---------------------------------------------

Kirby Krueger

unread,
Dec 15, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/15/95
to
In article <30D137...@smartlink.net>,

ZENtertainment <zen...@smartlink.net> wrote:
>Here's the official word on the Marvel / Image Crossover from the
>press conference Marvel held on Thursday.
>
<SNIP>

>"It's all part of Marvel Comics' publishing plan for 1996 so that going
>into 1997, the Marvel Universe and Marvel Comics will look a lot
>different than it does today," said Harras. "We'll be making more
>announcements in the coming months."
>
This is a very interesting little aside. As if the Heroes World thing
and now this weren't enough, Marvel's still got a few more tricks up
their sleeve. So far, nothing seems to have been sacred, except the
almight dollar. Any speculations on what they could do to us next?

--
Kirby Krueger, kir...@peak.org
<*> "Most .sigs this small can't open their own jump gate."

Paul O'Brien

unread,
Dec 15, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/15/95
to
aear...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Alan D Earhart) writes:

>Hmmmm...Jim having control over the FF...no more DeFalco...might
> be interesting...might make me anticipate the main FF title
> once again...might make me stop using ellipses (sp?)...

I shudder to say this, but Jim Lee on the Fantastic Four would
very likely be an improvement.


Paul O'Brien
pr...@festival.ed.ac.uk, 1995 SLT (News) 228

Mike Flowers for Christmas Number One.


Russ Chappell

unread,
Dec 16, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/16/95
to
>Tom Galloway (t...@netcom.com) wrote:
>
>Absent from the press release is any mention of Hulk or Thor, either
the
>books or the characters. When I called back to ask about this, I was
told >about the January press conference. So right now, it appears
these two
>may still be up in the air.
>

hmmm...maybe.

More likely, they're waiting until January to announce the
cancellations, because they don't want it connected in people's minds
with the Image deal.

Russ

----
"Nothing in *this* hand."--The Great Ozmo, practicing classic
misdirection.

tom vincent

unread,
Dec 16, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/16/95
to
Jacob W Michaels (JWMI...@deimos.oit.umass.edu) wrote:

: *sigh* And I was hoping at least that they would hire good writers and
: artists for the books.

: ) "Jim and Rob will have total creative control over every aspect of the
: ) four books and everybody who works on the books, with Jim in charge of
: ) Fantastic Four and Iron Man and Rob in charge of Captain America and
: ) The Avengers," said Marvel's Editor in Chief Bob Harras.

: Damn. Couldn't they have given the one book I read to the guy I like.

Does anyone know how Cap's gonna hold his shield with those little muffins
that are supposed to pass as hands?

---TV

Jacob W Michaels

unread,
Dec 16, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/16/95
to
Tom Galloway (t...@netcom.com) wrote:
) I've received a faxed directly from Marvel due to a phone call I made to them
) press release about Marvel's deal with Jim Lee and Rob Liefeld. So this is
) about as official as one can get about this matter. I'll transcribe the
) entire press release this evening for posting, but here's the gist of it
) and various interesting points.

) Captain America and the Avengers. Jim and Rob will personally pencil
) at least the first six issue of one of the two titles that they control,
) with Jim doing FF and Rob, Captain America."

Well, thank God Liefeld isn't pencilling Avengers. Now if he can just
surprise me and hire someone competent to write and draw it.

Jacob Fingers crossed

MJavins

unread,
Dec 16, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/16/95
to

<<I'll also be curious to learn the fate of the other two Marvel titles
I'm
currently buying, Dr. Strange and Captain Marvel. (I'm also picking up
Untold Tales of Spider-Man, but I'm pretty sure that's not going
anywhere.)>>

The March issue of Dr. Strange is the last issue.

Eivind Gladheim Østreng

unread,
Dec 16, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/16/95
to
Paul O'Brien (pr...@festival.ed.ac.uk) writes:
> aear...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Alan D Earhart) writes:
>
> >Hmmmm...Jim having control over the FF...no more DeFalco...might
> > be interesting...might make me anticipate the main FF title
> > once again...might make me stop using ellipses (sp?)...
>
> I shudder to say this, but Jim Lee on the Fantastic Four would
> very likely be an improvement.

That would depend on who's ending up actually writing the title,
Paul. After having borrowed Wildcats from a friend, I have absolutely
no faith in Jim Lee's writing abilities, and I rather prefer Paul Ryan's
clean pencils to the over-lined drawings of Mr. Lee.

One thing about this makes me happy though: that the FF was not
handed over to Liefeld. With Jim Lee there is hope, at least.

--
- the Warped One, keeper of the Captain Ultra flame.

"Well, if you can't believe what you read in a comic book, what *can* you
believe?!" - Bullwinkle J. Moose
****************************************************************************
* Eivind Gladheim Oestreng * eivi...@sn.no * provider of the lutefisk *

Leonard Wu

unread,
Dec 16, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/16/95
to

Oh great, that is sad. I was starting to like Bucky's art.
Lenny Wu

Glen Wadleigh

unread,
Dec 17, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/17/95
to
to...@global1.net (tom vincent) wrote:

>Does anyone know how Cap's gonna hold his shield with those little muffins
>that are supposed to pass as hands?
>
>---TV

I don't know. Maybe he could use his teeth? What with Rob Liefeld's
characters always showing off their mighty incisors I think Cap could
learn to use those throw and catch his shield with those. They sure look
strong. :)

Andy (no e-mail please)


Vicki/Matt Holmes

unread,
Dec 17, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/17/95
to
>ZENtertainment (zen...@smartlink.net) wrote:
>) Here's the official word on the Marvel / Image Crossover from the
>) press conference Marvel held on Thursday.
>
>
>) ========== WIZARD WORLD ==========
>) =========== NEWS FLASH ===========
>) Liefeld and Lee Return to Marvel

>
>) "Jim and Rob will have total creative control over every aspect of the
>) four books and everybody who works on the books, with Jim in charge of
>) Fantastic Four and Iron Man and Rob in charge of Captain America and
>) The Avengers," said Marvel's Editor in Chief Bob Harras.
>
Well, the CROSSING crap was bad enough that it was heading me toward
dropping my longest-held title anyway (25 years of continuous reading
and tracking down of back issues!). Knowing that Liefeld will be in
charge of the book soon is MORE THAN ENOUGH to push me over the edge.
I guess it's too much to hope that the changeover won't precede # 400,
as it would've been nice to be able to say I have the first four
hundred issues of the book. Oh well, somewhere down the line all of
these "mistake issues" will show up in the bargain bin and I MIGHT get
them for a quarter/piece.

This is particularly sad to me, since THE AVENGERS is the only book
I've stayed with, without interruption, since I started buying comics.

Real. Bad. News.

Matt


jbu...@gemini.kent.edu

unread,
Dec 18, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/18/95
to


AAAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!


--
Jim Burdo
jbu...@scorpio.kent.edu
"We are the Hollow Men. We have always been here."

Carlos A. Garza

unread,
Dec 18, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/18/95
to
> MJavins (mja...@aol.com) wrote:
>
> The March issue of Dr. Strange is the last issue.

>> Mark Bernstein wrote:
>> Well, damn. Thanks for the response.

>: Jim Burdo wrote:

>: AAAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!

Holy sh%^$, nothing is sacred at Marvel anymore. First the Avengers are
turned into the Avengerlynes (courtesy of Liefeld 501) --which means Cap
will no longer
be written by Waid, Thor is cancelled and the Hulk gets a dumb twin because
Clone 501 wants a kwol "Smash! Hulk" in the book... And now, just in time to
REALLY ruin the holidays, Marvel is folding Dr. Strange.

What's next Marie, the whole Edge group? I mean, the writers of those books
are WAY too good to fit Marvel's profile of a kwol creator (you know,
brain- dead,breast-obsessed and LOUD, really LOUD). If I were Velez Jr.
(Ghost Rider), Kaesel (Daredevil) or Ostrander (Punisher), I'll be looking
for work elsewhere PRONTO before Stan decides to "re-energize" my book
too.

Mark Bernstein

unread,
Dec 18, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/18/95
to
MJavins (mja...@aol.com) wrote:

: <<I'll also be curious to learn the fate of the other two Marvel titles


: I'm
: currently buying, Dr. Strange and Captain Marvel. (I'm also picking up
: Untold Tales of Spider-Man, but I'm pretty sure that's not going
: anywhere.)>>

: The March issue of Dr. Strange is the last issue.

Well, damn. Thanks for the response.

--
Mark Bernstein
ma...@erim.org

Carl Henderson

unread,
Dec 18, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/18/95
to
In article <30D137...@smartlink.net>,
ZENtertainment <zen...@smartlink.net> wrote:
>Here's the official word on the Marvel / Image Crossover from the
>press conference Marvel held on Thursday.

>The rumors were true. Both Jim Lee and Rob Liefeld will return to

>Marvel to take control of The Fantastic Four, The Avengers, Iron Man
>and Captain America.

>"Jim and Rob will have total creative control over every aspect of the

>four books and everybody who works on the books, with Jim in charge of

>Fantastic Four and Iron Man and Rob in charge of Captain America and

>The Avengers," said Marvel's Editor in Chief Bob Harras.

Well... Iron Man _might_ get readible again--It can't get worse. However, as
the only person on Usenet who likes the DeFalco/Ryan Fantastic Four, I'll be a
bit disapointed to see them go. (Yes, I'm serious. I like the FF. It is one of
the books I look forward to most).

However, having read Extreme Studios books and scanned the last year of the
Avengers (kept hoping it would get good enough to buy), I've got to say that
Rob and Company will probably be an improvement.

Captain America? Things don't look so for Cap. But he survived World War II,
cancellation, being frozen, and the CapWolf storyline... He will be back.

1
Carl Henderson "A Discordian is prohibited of
ca...@conline.com believing what he reads."
Malaclypse the Younger
Principia Discordia
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Henderson "A Discordian is prohibite€

S R Barge

unread,
Dec 18, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/18/95
to
jbu...@gemini.kent.edu () wrote:
>In article <4auh1q$f...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, mja...@aol.com (MJavins) writes:

>|> The March issue of Dr. Strange is the last issue.
>
>

>AAAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!
>

Ditto. I was really enjoying this book.

Steve BArge


Kevin J. Maroney

unread,
Dec 19, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/19/95
to
mja...@aol.com (MJavins) wrote:

>The March issue of Dr. Strange is the last issue.

This depresses me more than I can say.

Dr. Strange had a fifteen-year run of high quality issues, from the
Englehart/Brunner #1in 1975 through the Gillis/Case #4 in 1989 (or
thereabouts). Then Marvel put two of the worst writers in modern
comics on it (Roy and Dann Thomas) and ground it in to the dirt. Quinn
did his best, but it wasn't very good; and just as it had a chance to
return to its high level, it's cancelled.

Shit. Shit shit shit. This is a sad day for comicsdom.

William George Ferguson

unread,
Dec 19, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/19/95
to
That Press Release
>) According to Harras, the story lines of the four titles will lead
>) directly into Lee's and Liefeld's hands and will be integrated in a
>) large summer "event."

fire...@panix.com (Elayne Wechsler-Chaput) wrote:
>And, BTW, this deal more or less *has* pried Cap from Mark's fingers, in
>terms of the way things would have to change for him to still be writing
>it, so he's off the book.

Just as a matter of curiosity, are these 2 related? That is, is the
reason Mr. Waid's off the book, unwillingness to write the storyline
that would need to be written to feed into the studio change-over?

Greg Wilhelm

unread,
Dec 19, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/19/95
to
In article <Pine.SUN.3.91.95121...@orion.oac.uci.edu>,
John Sisson <jsi...@orion.oac.uci.edu> wrote:

> I also will mourn the good doctor. I will humbly admit I am a complete
> fanboy for Doctor Strange. I have a complete run of all his comics, I
> have a majority of his crossovers and appearances, I collect original art
> of Dr Strange pages, I have the little marvel figures of Dr. Strange all
> around my home and office.

Well, I'm not *that* much of a fan, though I admire your dedication....

> I have hopes that like many times before he will rise again in another
> title. I will admit however that all the changes in his character as
> each new writer tried to get a "grip" on him have not helped. It's funny
> but I was just thinking as we got to issue 81 of the current title that
> it had finally outlasted the last run of Dr. Strange but not for long.

Which is probably a major reason for it's cancellation. Doc changed
personas every other month and it was getting to be extremly annoying. I
imagine a number of readers left because they couldn't follow the
character from month to month even though they read every issue. Not to
mention the whole "Midnight Sons" mess. And the Infinity (whatever)
Crossovers. It's really a shame, Doc had the potential to be one of the
best comics Marvl put out and it fell apart.

> The Sorcerer Supreme will become one with the (Marvel) universe only to
> be inevitably reincarnated again!

And with any luck at all, they'll find someone to write the book consistently.

Bye Doc, I'm gonna miss ya!

--
Greg Wilhelm | Sometimes I think I must have a
The opinions expressed | Guardian Idiot. A little invisible
herein are mine and no one | spirit just behind my shoulder, looking
else's. | out for me...only he's an imbecile.
wilh...@irdpost.ird.rl.af.mil --Spider Robinson--

dib...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca

unread,
Dec 19, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/19/95
to
In article <Pine.SUN.3.91.95121...@orion.oac.uci.edu>,
jsi...@orion.oac.uci.edu says...

>
>
>I also will mourn the good doctor. I will humbly admit I am a complete
>fanboy for Doctor Strange. I have a complete run of all his comics, I
>have a majority of his crossovers and appearances, I collect original art
>of Dr Strange pages, I have the little marvel figures of Dr. Strange all
>around my home and office.
>
>I have hopes that like many times before he will rise again in another
>title. I will admit however that all the changes in his character as
>each new writer tried to get a "grip" on him have not helped. It's funny
>but I was just thinking as we got to issue 81 of the current title that
>it had finally outlasted the last run of Dr. Strange but not for long.
>Dr. Strange is always behind the scenes in the Marvel Universe but then
>again I don't believe in superheros without magic :).

>
>The Sorcerer Supreme will become one with the (Marvel) universe only to
>be inevitably reincarnated again!

Actually, if DeMatteis holds on all the way to #90, and they keep Pascual
Ferry as the penciller (or bring back Jackson Guice. See, Im not a real
big Mark Buckingham fan), then the series has the potential for a nice
sense of closure. Think of it-- Doc starts the series by regaining all of
his friends and powers, and winds up losing them all agin by the end. Its
a very Zen-like acension when you think about it, all you have to do is
ignore most of the clunky Infinity cross-overs that mar the middle (with
the exception of #45 and #56, as they present little milestones in the
story progression. So the end should be sweet-- sure its being cancelled
for the wrong reasons, but it wouldnt be a half-bad ending. Anyone agree?


John Sisson

unread,
Dec 19, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/19/95
to

Chris Harper

unread,
Dec 19, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/19/95
to
Basically, Marvel are doing this to get a share of Image`s success.
I`m sure Image did a lot better than most people expected, and if
Marvel can`t beat `em, they`ll simply buy up their talents and exploit
their popularity.

This might shake up a lot of books and alienate established readers -
but what does Marvel care? The plethora of Image-Heads that suddenly
buy Captain America will balance-out any lost sales from disgruntled
long-time readers. In fact, sales will almost certainly improve, so
Marvel will laugh all the way to the bank. The company is a huge,
corporate beast and cares not squat about who it treads on or
disappoints!

If the bank balance is healthy, that`s all that counts. (I`m not
criticising them for this; all big business operates this way. We just
shouldn`t expect any more or less from them.)

And, y`know, I`m no Image fan, but I might just take a look at what
Lee does with the FF... it WAS a great book, and it`d be nice to see
it being even an okay book again, after eons of toilet-plunging from
Messrs. DeFalco & Ryan. My dog has more constructive thoughts than
that particular creative team.

I don`t think it`s all that sad, on the whole... maybe it was
inevitable. When all the hot artists left to form Image, Marvel was
left with no-one of particular note to fill the gap; and in the 4
years since, they still haven`t struck gold in any significant way.
Maybe one or two moderate exceptions. I can`t comment on most of
Marvel`s recent output, as I don`t read many comics at all these days.
But I think we should all view it as an interesting change of pace,
make the most of it, and gripe afterwards when we know for sure that
these books are a pile of S**T.

Hey, they might be great!! Anything can happen in the next
half-year...

CH.


MHatoff

unread,
Dec 19, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/19/95
to
I agree that the constant changes in direction probably resulted in a
decline in sales. Who but the most devoted Doc fans could have followed
what has gone on recently?
Although I thought that his story went on maybe a bit long, I think
that David Quinn injected a lot of energy and excitement into the title
(with the Selene-Strange-Dr. Sanders plot). Doc finally emerges from his
ordeal cleansed and with a new outlook on life. Too bad that Quinn is gone
four issues later (does anyone know if he was forced out?) and Warren
Ellis changes him again (between issues) with not much explanation.
J.M. Dematteis seemed to be on the way to correcting the
inconsistancies in Doc's life with his storyline. It's too bad that his
rescue appears to be too late.
So it's a sad goodbye to the latest volume of Dr. Strange. Maybe his
next book will crack the magic 100th issue barrier. I doubt it.

- Mark (seeing the creation of yet another Spider book) Hatoff

Tackey Chan

unread,
Dec 21, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/21/95
to
mha...@aol.com (MHatoff) writes:

> I agree that the constant changes in direction probably resulted in a
>decline in sales. Who but the most devoted Doc fans could have followed
>what has gone on recently?

I aggree here. I have been a die-hard Dr. Strange fan since
this volume came out. I am not old enough have read the previous
volumes. (Not to mention not that much money to get them). IT is sad
considering this is Marvel's Premier magical character that has
enduered for decades.

> Although I thought that his story went on maybe a bit long, I think
>that David Quinn injected a lot of energy and excitement into the title
>(with the Selene-Strange-Dr. Sanders plot). Doc finally emerges from his
>ordeal cleansed and with a new outlook on life. Too bad that Quinn is gone
>four issues later (does anyone know if he was forced out?) and Warren
>Ellis changes him again (between issues) with not much explanation.

I have to disaggree with you here. I belive Quinn was the
finaly nail in the final nail for this comic. If I recall sales were
not all that great before Quinn and when Marvel tried to do the
Midnight Suns crossvoers, bring in new books and helping out Ghost
Rider and others, it must have irritated some people. I was always
happy Doc Strange was for the most part isolated from the rest of the
Marvel Universe given the unique nature of job.
I have been a big Quinn basher over the past and I personally
did not like his work on Doc. It was confusing, it was completely out
of context in Doc Strange's history, many sub-plots and good
supporting characters were ruined. Quinn's "shook and new look" was
not all that appealing. The dragging out of his story and having many
guest stars was a sign of a book in some trouble.

> J.M. Dematteis seemed to be on the way to correcting the
>inconsistancies in Doc's life with his storyline. It's too bad that his
>rescue appears to be too late.

Yes, this is true. DeMatteis has been clean up much of the
Quinn mess, who got this mess from the rotating writers from beofre
Quinn. I actually miss Roy Thomas from this book. That classic feel,
while somewhat boring at times, was great. A little humor, adventure,
strange twists and the universe was safe again.
Still, I would liked to have seen Ellis on the book longer
just to see what he would have done with Doc.
What Dr. Strange needs is someone that is willing to write
this book consistantly for several years. When the writer leaves, have
the editor not throw everything out the window for the new writer but
to continue on based on what has happened. I have advocated this
before about how different comic book writting is different from other
forms of writting, but rarely see good transistion.

> So it's a sad goodbye to the latest volume of Dr. Strange. Maybe his
>next book will crack the magic 100th issue barrier. I doubt it.

8( Yeah.. but not likely in the near future. Nor are we gonna
find out about what happened during that war that Doc fought on the
side of the Vishiti. 8(

------TAC

Elayne Wechsler-Chaput

unread,
Dec 21, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/21/95
to
William George Ferguson (fr...@netzone.com) wrote:
: That Press Release

I don't think the "event" has anything to do with it, no. And rumors are
afloat that Waid may not be off the book after all - Liefeld has posted
(and that post has been reproed elsewhere in this newsgroup) that he has
approached Mark about staying on the title.

- Elayne
--
E-Mail me, the "Firehead Head," for more info about the official ()~~
Firesign Theatre newsletter, Four-Alarm FIRESIGNal, available via ##
snail mail or free online! "And across her all, we flung one ##
Shining Steel Rail..." _##_

Ian Glover

unread,
Dec 22, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/22/95
to
In article <4b82sp$2...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,

mha...@aol.com (MHatoff) wrote:
> Although I thought that his story went on maybe a bit long, I think
>that David Quinn injected a lot of energy and excitement into the title
>(with the Selene-Strange-Dr. Sanders plot). Doc finally emerges from his
>ordeal cleansed and with a new outlook on life. Too bad that Quinn is gone
>four issues later (does anyone know if he was forced out?) and Warren
>Ellis changes him again (between issues) with not much explanation.

Yes, he was sacked. Marie Javins replied here on Usenet to my asking the
same question (for the second time) and the answer was a blunt "I didn't
like what he did". Quite why she bothered I don't know, because three
months afterwards she quit being an editor and went (back?) to being a
colourist. Hence Warren Ellis' run was only three months long, the three
issues she commissioned.

Do I sound pissed off? I should, because I am. David Quinn, Warren Ellis
and JM DeMatteis all appeared able to take Dr Strange out of the rut he was
in, and give a strong new direction to the book. However, because none of
them were allowed to write it for long enough (more editorial politicking?
more than likely) all we see are the differences and inconsistences. TPTB
at Marvel evidently have zero faith in JMD's ability to turn the book
around, because I've only just read his second issue and it's apparently
been cancelled.

Perhaps in Marvel's market research, they found out that the T&A brigade of
9-13 year-olds (the same ones who buy all these bloody "lingerie" and
"swimsuit" issues) don't buy mature, occult-based books. Which leads me to
wonder who the hell it is that's buying DC's Vertigo titles.

Warren's take on Dr Druid (the 4-issue Druid LS, very sick, very good, buy
the back issues NOW!) proves that tired, delapidated Marvel characters can
still be revamped successfully in a mature fashion. Which, after all, is
what Alan Moore did over at Swamp Thing, and his run there has passed into
comic-book history.

In a marketplace where books like Preacher, Swamp Thing, Sandman and
Hellboy are so well received I cannot understand why Marvel insists on
treating it's "magical" characters in such an _un_-magical fashion, and
then cancels them in surprise when they don't sell well. Maybe it's because
I'm looking at the quality of the book as an end in itself, not as a means
to flog shitloads of merchandise. Maybe if someone came up with a way to
sell the Ruby Rings of Raggador as a breakfast cereal, Dr Strange wouldn't
have been cancelled the first time around.


--
Ian Glover
London, UK

Michael A. Chary

unread,
Dec 23, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/23/95
to


Ian Glover says:
>mha...@aol.com (MHatoff) wrote:
>> Although I thought that his story went on maybe a bit long, I think
>>that David Quinn injected a lot of energy and excitement into the title
>>(with the Selene-Strange-Dr. Sanders plot). Doc finally emerges from his
>>ordeal cleansed and with a new outlook on life. Too bad that Quinn is gone
>>four issues later (does anyone know if he was forced out?) and Warren
>>Ellis changes him again (between issues) with not much explanation.
>
>Yes, he was sacked. Marie Javins replied here on Usenet to my asking the
>same question (for the second time) and the answer was a blunt "I didn't
>like what he did". Quite why she bothered I don't know, because three
>months afterwards she quit being an editor and went (back?) to being a
>colourist.

She bothered because Marie Javins is a consumate professional, and
regardless of whether she was leaving in three months or thirty years while
she *was* on the job and accepting the money, she was obligated to do the
best job she felt she could. While I might not agree with all her decisions
on Dr. Strange, she was still acting in good faith when she made them.

Of course, she's still Satan :)
--
Court Philosopher and Barbarian, DNRC http://bronze.ucs.indiana.edu/~fchary
"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for
sure that just ain't so." - Yogi Berra
"Ipsa scientia potestas est." - Roger Bacon

Ian Glover

unread,
Dec 24, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/24/95
to
In article <4bhaqe$l...@madeline.INS.CWRU.Edu>,
ma...@po.CWRU.Edu (Michael A. Chary) wrote:

>Ian Glover says:
>>Yes, he was sacked. Marie Javins replied here on Usenet to my asking the
>>same question (for the second time) and the answer was a blunt "I didn't
>>like what he did". Quite why she bothered I don't know, because three
>>months afterwards she quit being an editor and went (back?) to being a
>>colourist.
>
>She bothered because Marie Javins is a consumate professional, and
>regardless of whether she was leaving in three months or thirty years while
>she *was* on the job and accepting the money, she was obligated to do the
>best job she felt she could. While I might not agree with all her decisions
>on Dr. Strange, she was still acting in good faith when she made them.
>
>Of course, she's still Satan :)

Fair enough - it's not for me to comment on a person's intentions, much
less a person I've never met.

Let me just say instead "I wish she'd never bothered", because while I
enjoyed Warren Ellis' story, I think that the brevity of his stay did more
harm (in the form of confusion and continuity hiccups) than good.

Kevin J. Maroney

unread,
Dec 26, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/26/95
to
i...@bookworm.demon.co.uk (Ian Glover) wrote:

>Fair enough - it's not for me to comment on a person's intentions, much
>less a person I've never met.
>
>Let me just say instead "I wish she'd never bothered", because while I
>enjoyed Warren Ellis' story, I think that the brevity of his stay did more
>harm (in the form of confusion and continuity hiccups) than good.
>--
>Ian Glover
>London, UK

Dave Quinn had more than two years (issues 48-80) to try to establish
himself on Dr. Strange, and I think that the stories he did were of a
consistently ho-hum quality-- a big step up from the Thomas issues,
but still pretty lackluster, to be polite.

Marie intended for Ellis to be the regular writer, but he left Dr.
Strange when she stopped editing it, which came as a bit of a surprise
to everyone.

--
Kevin Maroney | Crossover Technologies | ke...@crossover.com
If they keep you asking the wrong questions, they don't have
to worry about the answers. --Thomas Pynchon


dib...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca

unread,
Dec 29, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/29/95
to
In article <30e04b1b...@news.crossover.com>, ke...@crossover.com
says...

>Dave Quinn had more than two years (issues 48-80) to try to establish
>himself on Dr. Strange, and I think that the stories he did were of a
>consistently ho-hum quality-- a big step up from the Thomas issues,
>but still pretty lackluster, to be polite.
>
>Marie intended for Ellis to be the regular writer, but he left Dr.
>Strange when she stopped editing it, which came as a bit of a surprise
>to everyone.
>

Quinns run is considerably shorter than what youve posted: issues #60-79,
with Annual #4. When Thomas jumped off the book, Len Kaminski tried his
hand at it, but lost the book around the same time he lost Morbius. Thomas
came back on for the Infinity Crusade, then the next three issues were
written by the current artist, Geoff Isherwood. Its worth correcting just
to establish the chaos that Quinn must of found himself in, as wellas the
decline.


EvanSkol

unread,
Dec 30, 1995, 3:00:00 AM12/30/95
to
<<<Quinn's run is considerably shorter than what youve posted: issues

#60-79,
with Annual #4. When Thomas jumped off the book, Len Kaminski tried his
hand at it, but lost the book around the same time he lost Morbius. Thomas

came back on for the Infinity Crusade, then the next three issues were
written by the current artist, Geoff Isherwood. Its worth correcting just
to establish the chaos that Quinn must of found himself in, as wellas the
decline.>>>

True. Sales on DOCTOR STRANGE were in a serious spiral when David Quinn
(and I) took over the writing (and editing) chores. Sales perked up when
we took over and stayed elevated from the previous levels throughout
Quinn's run, peaking with the milestone issue #75.

Issues #77 through #79, though also written by David (and scripted by
yours truly), don't really count as far as I'm concerned -- and not only
because I didn't edit them. Marie was just having David "tread water"
while Warren Ellis was warming up in the bullpen. There wasn't exactly a
lot of editorial love or attention paid to those three issues (as
evidenced by the "Doc-doggie's" accidentally-inked-and-colored cigar and
fire hydrant in issue #79!).

Finding her editorial position untenable and unbearable (and believe me, I
know how she felt), Marie left staff while Warren was only partway through
his first story arc. As I understand it, Warren quit the book as soon as
he found out, not wanting to deal with anyone else on DOC.

Todd DeZago then did an inventory issue while J. M. DeMatteis got ready to
start his run. But by this time, the series had been through too many
changes, too many new starts, too many different writers, too quickly, and
this -- combined with the imploding comics market -- sadly put the final
nails in Doc's coffin.

Ah, well, at least he'll be reunited with Rintrah again...

-- Evan Skolnick

dam...@panix.com

unread,
Jan 1, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/1/96
to
Not the first time Doc's been canceled.

But there is a finality to it this time thanks to inconsistent
characterization and histories, as well as poor writing (from Quinn and
DeMatteis too??? Aw no) and mediocre art colored by what looks like
graffiti artists - no exaggeration.

Was it so hard to do a decent book?

Now a 32 year old character and his world has bitten the dust.


EvanSkol (evan...@aol.com) wrote:
: <<<Quinn's run is considerably shorter than what youve posted: issues

Arthur C. Adams

unread,
Jan 1, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/1/96
to
dam...@panix.com (dam...@panix.com) wrote:

>Not the first time Doc's been canceled.

Not by far.

Out of curiosity, is Dr. Strange the most cancelled and restarted
Marvel title?


Tony Williams

unread,
Jan 2, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/2/96
to

>dam...@panix.com (dam...@panix.com) wrote:

>Not by far.

If you include the two runs of Strange Tales ( plus Doc appeared in
Marvel Feature - or some such title - for about five issues ) then the
answer would be yes.

If you stick to counting just eponymous titles then I think Cloak and
Dagger would win out as most cancelled.


wildcard

unread,
Jan 3, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/3/96
to
> Dagger would win out as most cancelled. But can you really count Strange Tales Vol.2 as being cancelled when the
book was only really cancelled so that the two stories (Dr.Strange and Cloak
& Dagger) could appear in their own full length books.

:)

Steven Chaput

unread,
Jan 6, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/6/96
to
dam...@panix.com (dam...@panix.com) wrote:
: Not the first time Doc's been canceled.

A number of Marvel's older heroes have gone through periods of
cancellation and renewal. Nick Fury/S.H.I.E.L.D., The Hulk, Iron Man,
and certainly Namor have been gone for years in some cases only to turn
up again. I expect the good doctor will be around in some shape or form
within a few years. Now whether it's good or not...

: But there is a finality to it this time thanks to inconsistent

: characterization and histories, as well as poor writing (from Quinn and
: DeMatteis too??? Aw no) and mediocre art colored by what looks like
: graffiti artists - no exaggeration.

Not having read the book for a number of years, I picked up the DeMatteis
issues and I had hopes, but I do wonder about the whole retcon(?) dealing
with Stephen's drinking problem. Didn't the accident trigger that,
rather than vice versa?

: Was it so hard to do a decent book?

Apparently!!

: Now a 32 year old character and his world has bitten the dust.

Can't keep a good mage down!

Steve
--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
sh...@panix.com "When you say Dylan, he thinks you mean that guy on
90210, whoever he is. The guy ain't got no kultcha."
- me, with apologies to Paul Simon

Synsidar

unread,
Jan 7, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/7/96
to
sh...@panix.com (Steven Chaput) wrote:

>Not having read the book for a number of years, I picked up the DeMatteis

>issues and I had hopes, but I do wonder about the whole retcon(?) dealing

>with Stephen's drinking problem. Didn't the accident trigger that,
>rather than vice versa?

DeMatteis covers that in the current storyline. Baron Mordo was
interfering
with Strange's memory.

dam...@panix.com

unread,
Jan 7, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/7/96
to
The excuse of Mordo controlling his mind is a copout to cover up plot
holes and editorial & the writer's refusal to research. In the end the
character and his/her fans suffer.

- damfino

Synsidar (syns...@aol.com) wrote: : sh...@panix.com (Steven Chaput)

John

unread,
Jan 8, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/8/96
to
In article <4cmn1o$5...@panix.com>, sh...@panix.com (Steven Chaput) wrote:

> A number of Marvel's older heroes have gone through periods of
> cancellation and renewal. Nick Fury/S.H.I.E.L.D., The Hulk, Iron Man,
> and certainly Namor have been gone for years in some cases only to turn
> up again. I expect the good doctor will be around in some shape or form
> within a few years. Now whether it's good or not...
>

Iron Man? I know that the title has been CLOSE to cancellation, but I
never remember it getting the ax (until now - giving it to the Image
writers is worse than cancellation).

Nick Fury/SHIELD have been through the cancellation mill before (and I am
sure will again - death waits for no one, except in comics). The Hulk was
only canceled once (after 6 issues) and then was resurrected in Tales To
Astonish.

Now Subby - damn that poor guy has been canceled. Talk about feeling
unloved. I think Aquaman and Namor need to be placed in one title - the
poor fishmen always seem to get canceled.

If you count mini-series and secondary series (Invaders) I think Namor
wins the title as most canceled - but now you have me curious. Guess I
will have to get out the guide and do a little research.

--
- John
j...@primenet.com

Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages