Notes to League of Extraordinary Gentlemen v2 #1

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Jess Nevins

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Jul 24, 2002, 12:11:54 AM7/24/02
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are now up, at

http://www.geocities.com/jessnevins/league1.html

I'd post them here, as I used to do, but they're just
too long (the Traveller's Almanac is a killer), so
they're going to be web-only.

Thanks to Mike Chary for the advance copy!

jess


Carl Fink

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Jul 24, 2002, 7:59:37 AM7/24/02
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In article <3D3E290A...@ix.netcom.com>, Jess Nevins wrote:

> Thanks to Mike Chary for the advance copy!

I was wondering why you were annotating it before it was available.

Might I suggest reposting this announcement after the book is
actually, um, published?
--
Carl Fink ca...@dm.net
I-Con's Science and Technology Programming
<http://www.iconsf.org/>

Ralf Haring

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Jul 24, 2002, 10:00:29 AM7/24/02
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On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:59:37 +0000 (UTC), Carl Fink <ca...@panix.com>
wrote:

>In article <3D3E290A...@ix.netcom.com>, Jess Nevins wrote:
>
>> Thanks to Mike Chary for the advance copy!
>
>I was wondering why you were annotating it before it was available.
>
>Might I suggest reposting this announcement after the book is
>actually, um, published?

It's out today.

-Ralf Haring
"The mind must be the harder, the heart the keener,
the spirit the greater, as our strength grows less."
-Byrhtwold, The Battle of Maldon

Bill Svitavsky

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Jul 24, 2002, 10:30:22 PM7/24/02
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Jess Nevins <jjne...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<3D3E290A...@ix.netcom.com>...

> are now up, at
>
> http://www.geocities.com/jessnevins/league1.html
>
> I'd post them here, as I used to do, but they're just
> too long (the Traveller's Almanac is a killer), so
> they're going to be web-only.
>

In the annotations, Jess writes:

"In the original Burroughs novels nothing really bad ever happened to
Dejah Thoris. Gulliver Jones' words imply that something did, though.
The internal chronology of the Burroughs novels was never completely
resolved, but as best can be figured, Thuvia, Maid of Mars (1916) took
place between 1888 and 1898, and The Chessmen of Mars (1922) took
place between 1898 and 1917. (I'm indebted to Win Eckert's ERBurroughs
Chronology for this information.) Dejah Thoris does not appear in
Thuvia, which is about Carthoris, the son of Dejah Thoris and John
Carter, and Thuvia, a Martian Princess. Dejah Thorisdoes appear in
Chessmen, but seems in perfect health. This is a case where Moore is
deviating from the original texts."

It's been a long time since I read the Barsoom novels, but is it
possible that this takes place during Dejah Thoris's year-long
imprisonment underground starting at the end of the Gods of Mars?

Win Eckert's chronology places the Gods of Mars in 1886, and Moore's
story is in 1898, but Moore isn't necessarily working from the same
assumptions as Eckert.

- Bill Svitavsky

Andy Perry

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Jul 25, 2002, 4:37:28 AM7/25/02
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In article <3D3E290A...@ix.netcom.com>,
Jess Nevins <jjne...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> are now up, at
>
> http://www.geocities.com/jessnevins/league1.html
>
> I'd post them here, as I used to do, but they're just
> too long (the Traveller's Almanac is a killer), so
> they're going to be web-only.

Wow. Nice work.

Minor correction (or Moore, not you): Dylan Thomas' Welsh village is
spelled Llareggub, not Llaregyb.

This is important only because it is "bugger all" backwards.
--
Andy Perry To send me e-mail, hit reply,
Brown University hold the pickles,
English Department hold the lettuce

@hotmail.com.invalid Eric D. Berge

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Jul 25, 2002, 11:21:17 AM7/25/02
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On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:59:37 +0000 (UTC), Carl Fink <ca...@panix.com>
wrote:

>In article <3D3E290A...@ix.netcom.com>, Jess Nevins wrote:


>
>> Thanks to Mike Chary for the advance copy!
>
>I was wondering why you were annotating it before it was available.
>
>Might I suggest reposting this announcement after the book is
>actually, um, published?

I bought a copy yesterday evening.

Jess Nevins

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Jul 25, 2002, 7:26:16 PM7/25/02
to

Bill Svitavsky wrote:

It's -possible- that it takes place at the end of Gods of Mars, but I don't
think the internal chronology of Burroughs' Mars books supports her
imprisonment taking place any later than 1888.

For a frighteningly thorough look at this, go here:

http://www.geocities.com/hillmans19/erbz507.html

jess


Bill Svitavsky

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Jul 26, 2002, 9:45:43 PM7/26/02
to

The annotations include this comment:

>徹ther members of this new fraternity would seem to have eventually included
> a mild-mannered clergyman from Kent
[snip]
> This is a reference to the 18th century League, seen in a portrait in League v1 #2,
> Page 23, Panel 2: The Reverend Dr. Syn, from Russell Thorndike痴 Doctor Syn (1915);

While the reference to Dr. Syn here is pretty clear, I suspect there's
also a little wordplay going on. The "mild-mannered clergyman from Kent"
would be a "clark" - that is a clerk = cleric = clergyman. Thus, we have
the mild-mannered Clark of Kent.

- Bill Svitavsky

Jess Nevins

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Jul 26, 2002, 9:48:06 PM7/26/02
to

Bill Svitavsky wrote:

Heh. That's pretty clever, actually.

jess

Old Toby

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Jul 27, 2002, 1:15:03 PM7/27/02
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Jess Nevins wrote:
>
> are now up, at
>
> http://www.geocities.com/jessnevins/league1.html

"The web site you are trying to access has exceeded its
allocated data transfer."

Oops.

Any way I can get around this?

Old Toby
Least Known Dog on the Net

Jess Nevins

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Jul 27, 2002, 7:35:52 PM7/27/02
to
Old Toby <plai...@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<3D42D513...@mindspring.com>...

> Jess Nevins wrote:
> >
> > are now up, at
> >
> > http://www.geocities.com/jessnevins/league1.html
>
> "The web site you are trying to access has exceeded its
> allocated data transfer."
>
> Oops.
>
> Any way I can get around this?

Yep. The annotations are mirrored at
http://www.thefourthrail.com/features/0702/loeg2-1notes.shtml and at
http://www.enjolrasworld.com/annotations.htm , neither of which have
Geocities' bandwidth restrictions.

jess

Dale Hicks

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Jul 28, 2002, 8:39:15 PM7/28/02
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In article <3D3E290A...@ix.netcom.com>, jjne...@ix.netcom.com
says...
>
> http://www.geocities.com/jessnevins/league1.html

What does this mean? Is it a typo?
(Jones is referred to as “Gullivar” in League; varying editions
of the book had his name as “Gulliver” or “Gulliver.”)

Was there a decent reason why the women martians were tiny enough to
cavort with human warlords, yet the men were these towering monsters?
Just titillation, I assume?

Maybe at least a pointer is needed in the annotations (to the ones for
the previous series, perhaps) to explain who the people are on pps. 22
and 23 to newcomers.


Finally read the book, and I'd be remiss if I didn't gripe about this as
much as I did Bendis' offering. Out of the 24 pages of story, there were
roughly 7 of them as splash pages. Many more pages consisted of multiple
panels that were there only because the "no dialogue" storytelling
required that many. Hardly a start of a story here.

I'm sure that there's more value for my money in the essay part, but
while I'm sure dissecting archaic literature is fun for some, it's not my
cup of tea. At least Jess has done the research for us on explaining the
whole matter, making it more of a story and less of a quiz.

--
Cranial Crusader dgh...@bellsouth.net

Dale Hicks

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Jul 28, 2002, 8:40:39 PM7/28/02
to
In article <MPG.17ae4ab1e...@news1.lig.bellsouth.net>,
dgh...@bellSPAMsouth.net.invalid says...

>
> Maybe at least a pointer is needed in the annotations (to the ones for
> the previous series, perhaps) to explain who the people are on pps. 22
> and 23 to newcomers.

Never mind, I just noticed the links at the bottom. This will do, I
suppose.

--
Cranial Crusader dgh...@bellsouth.net

Franklin Harris

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Jul 28, 2002, 9:27:03 PM7/28/02
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"Dale Hicks" <dgh...@bellSPAMsouth.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:MPG.17ae4ab1e...@news1.lig.bellsouth.net...

> In article <3D3E290A...@ix.netcom.com>, jjne...@ix.netcom.com
> says...
> >
> > http://www.geocities.com/jessnevins/league1.html
>
> What does this mean? Is it a typo?
> (Jones is referred to as "Gullivar" in League; varying editions
> of the book had his name as "Gulliver" or "Gulliver.")
>
> Was there a decent reason why the women martians were tiny enough to
> cavort with human warlords, yet the men were these towering monsters?
> Just titillation, I assume?

Martians come is a variety of species. Red Martians were essentially human,
except the female ones lay eggs. (Yes, John Carter's children were laid and
hatched.) Green Martians are tall, with tusk-like teeth and four arms.

--
Franklin Harris
Pulp Culture Online, www.pulpculture.net
"The future is unknowable but not unimaginable." -- Ludwig M. Lachmann


Tim Serpas

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Jul 29, 2002, 3:43:55 AM7/29/02
to

I'd like to add a note for the first page: the panel
lay-out and camera pulling back are done in the style
of Watchmen. Pages two and three could also fit in
that style. The colors used for Mars seem a close
match to the colors used in the Mars sequence in
Watchmen. I kept expecting to see Dr. Manhattan's
clockwork/hourglass fortress in the background.

I'll go out on a limb and also suggest that the
patern on Gullivar's carpet is reminiscent of the
Fury's face from Captain Britain.

Peace, Love and Artichokes.
Tim Serpas
wre...@io.com

Jess Nevins

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Jul 29, 2002, 7:50:58 AM7/29/02
to

Dale Hicks wrote:

> In article <3D3E290A...@ix.netcom.com>, jjne...@ix.netcom.com
> says...
> >
> > http://www.geocities.com/jessnevins/league1.html
>
> What does this mean? Is it a typo?
> (Jones is referred to as “Gullivar” in League; varying editions
> of the book had his name as “Gulliver” or “Gulliver.”)

I'm sorry, I don't understand your question.

jess

Jess Nevins

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Jul 29, 2002, 7:52:23 AM7/29/02
to

Tim Serpas wrote:

> Jess Nevins <jjne...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >are now up, at
> >
> >http://www.geocities.com/jessnevins/league1.html
>
> I'd like to add a note for the first page: the panel
> lay-out and camera pulling back are done in the style
> of Watchmen. Pages two and three could also fit in
> that style.

People keep mentioning that, and yet--it's a pull-back.
It's a rather simple cinematic device. Moore's hardly
the first one to use it in comics.

Or was he?

jess

Mikel Midnight

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Jul 29, 2002, 8:07:34 AM7/29/02
to
In article <%m619.336801$iX5.16...@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, Tim
Serpas <wre...@io.com> wrote:

> I'll go out on a limb and also suggest that the
> patern on Gullivar's carpet is reminiscent of the
> Fury's face from Captain Britain.

That Gullivar Jones -- he never gives up!

I did wonder at the lack of Red Martians in the battle sequences, but I
suppose Moore & O'Niel wanted to stick to the moore visually dramatic
Greens.

--
_______________________________________________________________________________
"She always had a terrific sense of humor" Mikel Midnight
(Valerie Solonas, as described by her mother)
blak...@blaklion.best.vwh.net
_______________________________________http://blaklion.best.vwh.net/comics.html

Ralph Snart

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Jul 29, 2002, 8:50:33 PM7/29/02
to
On Mon, 29 Jul 2002 06:52:23 -0500, Jess Nevins <jjne...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Tim Serpas wrote:
>> I'd like to add a note for the first page: the panel
>> lay-out and camera pulling back are done in the style
>> of Watchmen. Pages two and three could also fit in
>> that style.
>
>People keep mentioning that, and yet--it's a pull-back.
>It's a rather simple cinematic device. Moore's hardly
>the first one to use it in comics.
>
>Or was he?

he wasn't, but the layout of the page, and the content
of the panels themselves are *strongly* reminiscent of
page 1 of watchmen issue 1.

i thought of it immediately, and i didn't get a single
other "mars" reference in the entire book. (thanks
for your annotations - i am a bit disappointed that one
needs to know so much other stuff to "get" LOEG2 but
i guess i'll soldier on anyway.)

-rs-

Alec A. Burkhardt

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Jul 29, 2002, 9:45:44 PM7/29/02
to

"Ralph Snart" <sn...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:slrnakbos9...@cluttered.com...

> i thought of it immediately, and i didn't get a single
> other "mars" reference in the entire book. (thanks
> for your annotations - i am a bit disappointed that one
> needs to know so much other stuff to "get" LOEG2 but
> i guess i'll soldier on anyway.)
>
> -rs-

While I haven't received LOEG2 #1 yet (drawback to using mailorder) if it's
anything like LOEG, while Jess' annotations are wonderful, the story should
be completely enjoyable without all that knowledge. LOEG was at least.

alec


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Dale Hicks

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Jul 29, 2002, 10:08:47 PM7/29/02
to
In article <3D452C22...@ix.netcom.com>, jjne...@ix.netcom.com
says...

“Gulliver” or “Gulliver.”

I just can't see the difference.

--
Cranial Crusader dgh...@bellsouth.net

Brian Hance

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Jul 30, 2002, 3:22:42 AM7/30/02
to
On Tue, 30 Jul 2002 00:50:33 GMT, sn...@nospam.com (Ralph Snart)
wrote:

>i thought of it immediately, and i didn't get a single
>other "mars" reference in the entire book. (thanks
>for your annotations - i am a bit disappointed that one
>needs to know so much other stuff to "get" LOEG2 but
>i guess i'll soldier on anyway.)

I read LoEG #1 and it seemed to me that one really didn't NEED any
background to "get" it other than a familiarity with the first LoEG
series, and maybe Wells WAR OF THE WORLDS, but that has become so
ubiquitous that I have a hard time seeing somebody not "getting" it.
Knowing the rest of what Jess was so kind to gather up is nice, but
hardly necessary for understanding the basic plot.

--
Brian Hance
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself.
They're pretty bad. I grieve over them on long winter evenings."
Humphrey Bogart from THE BIG SLEEP

Jess Nevins

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Jul 30, 2002, 7:52:16 AM7/30/02
to

Dale Hicks wrote:

> In article <3D452C22...@ix.netcom.com>, jjne...@ix.netcom.com
> says...
> >
> > Dale Hicks wrote:
> >
> > > In article <3D3E290A...@ix.netcom.com>, jjne...@ix.netcom.com
> > > says...
> > > >
> > > > http://www.geocities.com/jessnevins/league1.html
> > >
> > > What does this mean? Is it a typo?
> > > (Jones is referred to as “Gullivar” in League; varying editions
> > > of the book had his name as “Gulliver” or “Gulliver.”)
> >
> > I'm sorry, I don't understand your question.
>
> “Gulliver” or “Gulliver.”
>
> I just can't see the difference.

*sigh* Will typos never cease plaguing me?

It should read "Jones is referred to as "Gullivar" in League; varying
editions
of the book had his name as "Gullivar" or "Gulliver."

Clear now?

jess

Sean MacDonald

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Jul 30, 2002, 2:00:13 PM7/30/02
to

"Jess Nevins" <jjne...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3D467DF0...@ix.netcom.com...

> It should read "Jones is referred to as "Gullivar" in League; varying
> editions
> of the book had his name as "Gullivar" or "Gulliver."

I have nothing of relevance to say about this. However, my only previous
exposure to Gulliver Jones was a Hembeck cartoon in which Hembeck
illustrated the advertising claim made by one of the two big comic companies
that "Gullivar Jones could whip the pants off of John Carter." I somehow
doubt Alan Moore will have a similar scene in LoEG.


--
-Sean MacDonald
"And did they get you to trade
Your heroes for ghosts?
Hot ashes for trees... hot air for a cool breeze...
Cold comfort for change..." -Pink Floyd

TheQuietDragon

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Jul 30, 2002, 2:01:26 PM7/30/02
to
I think the person with the Gulliver spelling issue,doesnt realize that there
are two different people referenced.Gullivar Jones and Lemuel Gulliver.

Pete

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Jul 30, 2002, 5:49:37 PM7/30/02
to
In article <3D3E290A...@ix.netcom.com>,

Having read #1 somewhat at leisure, I just got to your Notes.
Whew! Nice job!

However there's one reference I'm surprised that you missed:

The 'egg' in panel 3 page 19 is obviously "The Crystal Egg" from the
short story by H. G Wells. (A crytal -- found in an antique shop as I
remember -- reflected scenes that were thought to be of Mars. Haven't
read it since I was a kid, but I think they realized the transmission
was two-way...)

-- Pete --

--
============================================================================
The address in the header is a Spam Bucket -- don't bother replying to it...
============================================================================

Pete

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Jul 30, 2002, 5:59:02 PM7/30/02
to
In article <huecku01e571l1n0a...@4ax.com>,

Brian Hance <bha...@net-prophet.com> wrote:
>I read LoEG #1 and it seemed to me that one really didn't NEED any
>background to "get" it other than a familiarity with the first LoEG
>series, and maybe Wells WAR OF THE WORLDS, but that has become so
>ubiquitous that I have a hard time seeing somebody not "getting" it.
>Knowing the rest of what Jess was so kind to gather up is nice, but
>hardly necessary for understanding the basic plot.

To me, the enjoyment of LoEG is to read it twice -- the first time
simply as a story, with the occasional joyful flash of recognition at
a reference, the second with Jess's annotations at hand, to find out
how much of the fantasy realm has passed one by!
(I've never read Burroughs, for example, but like everyone else [??]
I know enough of the background to grasp the theme. "Gullivar" on
the other hand was a discovery.)

Jess Nevins

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Jul 30, 2002, 6:39:55 PM7/30/02
to

Pete wrote:

> In article <3D3E290A...@ix.netcom.com>,
> Jess Nevins <jjne...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >are now up, at
> >
> >http://www.geocities.com/jessnevins/league1.html
> >
>
> Having read #1 somewhat at leisure, I just got to your Notes.
> Whew! Nice job!
>
> However there's one reference I'm surprised that you missed:
>
> The 'egg' in panel 3 page 19 is obviously "The Crystal Egg" from the
> short story by H. G Wells. (A crytal -- found in an antique shop as I
> remember -- reflected scenes that were thought to be of Mars. Haven't
> read it since I was a kid, but I think they realized the transmission
> was two-way...)

I know, I know...! Roughly two dozen people have pointed this out
to me. :-)

jess

Duggy

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Jul 30, 2002, 8:39:11 PM7/30/02
to
Jess Nevins <jjne...@ix.netcom.com> wrote

> > "Gulliver" or "Gulliver."
> > I just can't see the difference.
> *sigh* Will typos never cease plaguing me?

It's not just you it's all mankind.

> It should read "Jones is referred to as "Gullivar" in League; varying
> editions
> of the book had his name as "Gullivar" or "Gulliver."

> Clear now?

Yeah... However, for most of the annos you use "Gulliver" (reverting
later to Gullivar). Since Moore uses Gullivar and to seperate him
from the other Gulliver, I'd suggest sticking to the "a" version.
(Your call, of course).

===
= DUG.
===

Jess Nevins

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Jul 30, 2002, 9:17:15 PM7/30/02
to

Duggy wrote:

Argh. I meant to type "Gullivar," but I obviously slipped and went
with the normal version.

jess

David Rains

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Jul 30, 2002, 9:38:47 PM7/30/02
to
Cut yourself some slack. It doesn't help that you had to include
references to both Swift's Gulliver and Arnold's Gullivar. That would
confuse anybody. Considering how much you did include, references and
e-text links, as well as posting it the day it was released, there should be
some sort of usenet medal of honor you could receive.

I would also say you could defend yourself by pointing to the '60's Ace
edition of Arnold's book, which not only calls it GULLIVER OF MARS, but
beneath that it says (original title Lieut. Gulliver Jones). If they didn't
get it right...

David Rains


"Jess Nevins" <jjne...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message

news:3D473A9B...@ix.netcom.com...

BradW8

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Jul 30, 2002, 10:40:32 PM7/30/02
to
>I have nothing of relevance to say about this. However, my only previous
>exposure to Gulliver Jones was a Hembeck cartoon in which Hembeck
>illustrated the advertising claim made by one of the two big comic companies
>that "Gullivar Jones could whip the pants off of John Carter."

Illustrated it in reverse, actually. While the claim is as you put it,
Hembeck depicted Gully with his breeches around his ankles.
Fred much preferred DC's John Carter to Marvel's Jones.

George Grattan

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Jul 30, 2002, 11:37:04 PM7/30/02
to

Well, "Gullivar" *is* normal for Gullivar Jones, of course. Just as
"Gulliver" is normal for Lemuel Gulliver. :-)

You realize, of course, that Moore used the both in the same issue (though
Gulliver was only in the text piece) just to drive you crazy? :-)


Shalom, Peace, Salaam,

George Grattan
gra...@rcn.com

"These are our few live seasons. Let us live them as purely as we can, in
the present."--Annie Dillard, _Pilgrim at Tinker Creek_.

Tim Serpas

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Jul 31, 2002, 3:15:03 AM7/31/02
to
Ralph Snart <sn...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>People keep mentioning that, and yet--it's a pull-back.
>>It's a rather simple cinematic device. Moore's hardly
>>the first one to use it in comics.
>>
>>Or was he?
>
>he wasn't, but the layout of the page, and the content
>of the panels themselves are *strongly* reminiscent of
>page 1 of watchmen issue 1.

Yeah, it's the combination of factors that made me notice
and bring it up. The nine panel grid is harldy unique,
either, but I'll wager that the gaps (gutters?) between
the panels matches Watchmen, too. It just clicked for me.
If I had my TPBs at hand, I'd whip out a ruler.... :)


Tim Serpas

Jess Nevins

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Jul 31, 2002, 7:45:05 AM7/31/02
to

George Grattan wrote:

> on 7/30/02 9:17 PM, Jess Nevins at jjne...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Duggy wrote:
> >
> >> Jess Nevins <jjne...@ix.netcom.com> wrote
> >>>> "Gulliver" or "Gulliver."
> >>>> I just can't see the difference.
> >>> *sigh* Will typos never cease plaguing me?
> >>
> >> It's not just you it's all mankind.
> >>
> >>> It should read "Jones is referred to as "Gullivar" in League; varying
> >>> editions
> >>> of the book had his name as "Gullivar" or "Gulliver."
> >>
> >>> Clear now?
> >>
> >> Yeah... However, for most of the annos you use "Gulliver" (reverting
> >> later to Gullivar). Since Moore uses Gullivar and to seperate him
> >> from the other Gulliver, I'd suggest sticking to the "a" version.
> >> (Your call, of course).
> >
> > Argh. I meant to type "Gullivar," but I obviously slipped and went
> > with the normal version.
>
> Well, "Gullivar" *is* normal for Gullivar Jones, of course. Just as
> "Gulliver" is normal for Lemuel Gulliver. :-)
>
> You realize, of course, that Moore used the both in the same issue (though
> Gulliver was only in the text piece) just to drive you crazy? :-)

He's already threatened to get even more obscure, just to keep me from
slacking off. :-)

jess

Dale Hicks

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Jul 31, 2002, 9:32:01 PM7/31/02
to
In article <X7M19.386132$iB1.19...@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>,
wre...@eris.io.com says...

The gutters in LOEG are wider.

And there are only 7 panels on page one of WATCHMEN, with the bottom
third of the page being only one panel (LOEG is nine-panel grid).

The pull-out is continuous in WATCHMEN. LOEG starts from a much tighter
view, and seems to almost pause in the pull-out from panels 4-6.

WATCHMEN has lots of narration over the panels. LOEG is silent.

--
Cranial Crusader dgh...@bellsouth.net

Bill Svitavsky

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Jul 31, 2002, 10:31:13 PM7/31/02
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The pattern on Gullivar's carpet *could* be taken to be reminiscent of a
smiley face, sort of, if you squint and use your imagination. But it's a
stretch.

- Bill Svitavsky

Duggy

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Aug 2, 2002, 11:22:19 PM8/2/02
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Jess Nevins <jjne...@ix.netcom.com> wrote
> > > *sigh* Will typos never cease plaguing me?
> > It's not just you it's all mankind.

> > Yeah... However, for most of the annos you use "Gulliver" (reverting


> > later to Gullivar). Since Moore uses Gullivar and to seperate him
> > from the other Gulliver, I'd suggest sticking to the "a" version.
> > (Your call, of course).
> Argh. I meant to type "Gullivar," but I obviously slipped and went
> with the normal version.

I understand completely. It's the old auto-typing problem... there
are words that I know I get wrong every time I type them.

===
= Dug.
===

Henry Spencer

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Aug 3, 2002, 3:40:01 PM8/3/02
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In article <%m619.336801$iX5.16...@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>,
Tim Serpas <wre...@io.com> wrote:
>I'll go out on a limb and also suggest that the
>patern on Gullivar's carpet is reminiscent of the
>Fury's face from Captain Britain.

I noticed that too, but couldn't quite put my finger on the original.
--
Socialists always tell us they're going to | Henry Spencer
do better next time. -- Ed Wright | he...@spsystems.net

Henry Spencer

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Aug 3, 2002, 10:07:11 PM8/3/02
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In article <3D3E290A...@ix.netcom.com>, jjne...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> [http://www.geocities.com/jessnevins/league1.html]
>Page 8. Panel 3. Several people, Kurt Wilcken among them, wondered about
>the need for breathing apparatuses on the part of Gullivar and John; Kurt
>suggests that the Barsoomian oxygen factory, which in the Burroughs novels
>supplied the dying planet of Mars with oxygen, was on the blink again.

But note that Gullivar at one point takes his off in the open air, inside
the outer wall of the molluscs' fortress. Moreover, there's no indication
of Gullivar and the green man passing through any sort of airtight door on
their way to John. This is rather puzzling.

Jess Nevins

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Aug 3, 2002, 11:57:42 PM8/3/02
to

Henry Spencer wrote:

> In article <3D3E290A...@ix.netcom.com>, jjne...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> > [http://www.geocities.com/jessnevins/league1.html]
> >Page 8. Panel 3. Several people, Kurt Wilcken among them, wondered about
> >the need for breathing apparatuses on the part of Gullivar and John; Kurt
> >suggests that the Barsoomian oxygen factory, which in the Burroughs novels
> >supplied the dying planet of Mars with oxygen, was on the blink again.
>
> But note that Gullivar at one point takes his off in the open air, inside
> the outer wall of the molluscs' fortress. Moreover, there's no indication
> of Gullivar and the green man passing through any sort of airtight door on
> their way to John. This is rather puzzling.

It made me think of Leiber's "Pail of Air," actually, although obviously
Carter's tent lacked the many layers required for that to work.

jess

Duggy

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Aug 4, 2002, 12:49:18 AM8/4/02
to
On Sun, 4 Aug 2002, Henry Spencer wrote:
>In article <3D3E290A...@ix.netcom.com>, jjne...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>> [http://www.geocities.com/jessnevins/league1.html]
>>Page 8. Panel 3. Several people, Kurt Wilcken among them, wondered about
>>the need for breathing apparatuses on the part of Gullivar and John; Kurt
>>suggests that the Barsoomian oxygen factory, which in the Burroughs novels
>>supplied the dying planet of Mars with oxygen, was on the blink again.
>But note that Gullivar at one point takes his off in the open air, inside
>the outer wall of the molluscs' fortress. Moreover, there's no indication
>of Gullivar and the green man passing through any sort of airtight door on
>their way to John. This is rather puzzling.

I recall a theory that Mars had an atmosphere like high
altitudes... breathable but you need a oxygen source especially if you're
exerting yourself. This probably contradicts the truth and the fictional
sources, but it does explain the varying need for masks.

===
= DUG.
===

Henry Spencer

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Aug 4, 2002, 1:55:48 AM8/4/02
to
In article <3D4CA636...@ix.netcom.com>,

Jess Nevins <jjne...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> >suggests that the Barsoomian oxygen factory, which in the Burroughs novels
>> >supplied the dying planet of Mars with oxygen, was on the blink again.
>> But note that Gullivar at one point takes his off in the open air, inside
>> the outer wall of the molluscs' fortress. Moreover, there's no indication
>> of Gullivar and the green man passing through any sort of airtight door on
>> their way to John. This is rather puzzling.
>
>It made me think of Leiber's "Pail of Air," actually, although obviously
>Carter's tent lacked the many layers required for that to work.

Mmmm, you might be able to make it work. Leiber's setup required a lot of
layers because his characters were trying to hold air in against vacuum.
Suppose the problem is not that Mars's air pressure is down, but that the
oxygen content is down. Martians can still handle it. But Earthmen need
an oxygen-enriched environment, at least for comfort and/or heavy
exertion. If there's no *pressure* difference, one or two layers of cloth
will suffice to largely prevent mixing of inside air and outside air, so
if you've got an oxygen generator running inside, the inside air will be
considerably enriched in oxygen compared to the outside.

If pushed, that can even explain Gullivar's taking off his mask: he takes
it off briefly for a closer look at the pictures etc., accepting some
discomfort and shortage of breath. It's a strain -- he should put it back
on when they're called outside -- but marginally workable.

Henry Spencer

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Aug 4, 2002, 2:29:32 PM8/4/02
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In article <Pine.OSF.4.21.020804...@marlin.jcu.edu.au>,
Duggy <jc12...@jcu.edu.au> wrote:
>...This probably contradicts the truth and the fictional sources...

Well, we just Won't Get Into the disagreements between the truth and the
fictional accounts. :-)

Ian McDowell

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Aug 14, 2002, 12:10:53 PM8/14/02
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Since Gullivar here is clearly modeled on T. E. Lawrence, might the
depiction of his ex-Confederate colleague be somewhat inspired by
Prince Feisal? "John's" features look vaguely Middle-Eastern, at
least to me. Of course the prominent nose (complete with mole) may,
along with the goatee and the rather Ruritanian costume (as opposed to
the loincloth ensemble familiar with J. Allen St. John illustrations
and Krenkel covers), be an attempt to keep the Burroughs estate from
getting angry.
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