JSA Sales figures - I want to see them.
Dwight Williams
Welcome aboard, Mr. Wayne. I hope all's been well with you personally
since SD 1993?
Anyway, regarding the JSA cancellation debacle...I do have a problem with
the decision. How big a problem might depend on being able to see how the
sales on that book went from # 1 to # 10, issue by issue. You've said that
by # 10, they dropped to 20,000, right? From what level with # 1?
And if anyone here can give an exact date of the announcement of JSA's
cancellation, I'd like to see if we can perform some forensic work on this
title...
--
Dwight Williams(ad...@freenet.carleton.ca)
1706 Caminiti Cres., Orleans, ON, Canada K4A 1M1
Tom Galloway
Dwight Williams <ad...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote:
>And if anyone here can give an exact date of the announcement of JSA's
>cancellation, I'd like to see if we can perform some forensic work on this
I was told of the cancellation by someone then working for DC at San Diego
'92. As a side note, Bob Rozakis stated at San Diego during the Electronic
Publishing panel this year that DC could make money on a title with 25,000
circulation.
"Fans think they want to see more than the 10 to 20 seconds of Itchy and
Scratchy that we put on the show, but my feeling is less is more. Once you've
skinned and flayed a cat, ripped his head off, made him drink acid and tied
his tongue to the moon, there really isn't that much to say." --Matt Groening
tyg t...@hq.ileaf.com
Bill Roper
copies to fill his "subscription" orders, let alone have copies available
for casual readers. (I know. I didn't get mine. :( )
--
Bill Roper, ro...@mcs.com
DANSLAVE
First, Bob Wayne never said the book was selling 20,000. _I_ said it was.
I think it's rather presumptious and arrogant for you to assume you have a
right to know any of the stuff you asked to know.
Secondly to the person who said their retailer wasn't getting enough
copies of JSA to fill subscriptions, that's because he didn't _order_
enough, not because someone somewhere decided not to send him what he
requested. In the direct market, the retailers orders detrmine print
runs.
You want to start pointing fingers, point them at retailers who loose
faith in books and cut orders on titles so they can stock up on so called
_hot_ comics.
Now I think it's high time we put this whole subject to rest.
Dan Vado
Dwight Williams
In a previous article, dans...@aol.com (DANSLAVE) says:
>I'm responding to everything at once here.
>
>First, Bob Wayne never said the book was selling 20,000. _I_ said it was.
>I think it's rather presumptious and arrogant for you to assume you have a
>right to know any of the stuff you asked to know.
Arrogant, maybe. Not knowing when to be stubborn and when not to be is an
old problem of mine, I have to admit. Same applies to diplomacy/tact in
phrasing of questions. If you'll both accept my apologies for those flawed
behaviours? I did not intend to insult or impugn anyone unjustly and I
suspect that I have screwed up in that regard.
As I recall, the timing of the initial cancellation announcement _did_
strike many here on rac.misc as premature in the extreme, and the reasons
given at the time seemed unconvincing or outrageous, and bad memories are
tenacious.
>Secondly to the person who said their retailer wasn't getting enough
>copies of JSA to fill subscriptions, that's because he didn't _order_
>enough, not because someone somewhere decided not to send him what he
>requested. In the direct market, the retailers orders detrmine print
>runs.
I have a problem with _that_ however. Kurt Ala-Kantti, my regular
retailer, has _often_ complained about being _repeatedly_ short-changed by
his distributor on his orders over the years. He has had to change
distributors on several occasions over the last five years in order to
combat this problem. He will confirm this if asked. You've still got his
"e-dress", I trust? I won't name names here because
those distributors may well have cleaned up their acts in the interim.
> You want to start pointing fingers, point them at retailers who loose
>faith in books and cut orders on titles so they can stock up on so called
>_hot_ comics.
>Now I think it's high time we put this whole subject to rest.
Fair enough where putting the matter to rest is concerned. I just hope I
haven't screwed up even worse with this note by repeating my previous errors.
Todd Allen
neighborhood of 70 -80,000. My source is Len Strazewski, the writer.
If you'd like me to confirm this, I will.
-Todd Allen
Dwight Williams
I'd appreciate that. And I'd like to see them from start of run to finish
if that's possible. The same request _still_ applies as well to Mr. Wayne
of DC Direct Sales, BTW, so an informed opinion can be developed.
Facts, with footnote referencing, please. I want to know where to look to
confirm these...
Vorpal Bunny(TM)
: In a previous article, magi...@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Todd Allen) says:
: > By the end of the run, if memory serves me, JSA was selling in the
: >neighborhood of 70 -80,000. My source is Len Strazewski, the writer.
: >If you'd like me to confirm this, I will.
: I'd appreciate that. And I'd like to see them from start of run to finish
: if that's possible. The same request _still_ applies as well to Mr. Wayne
: of DC Direct Sales, BTW, so an informed opinion can be developed.
: Facts, with footnote referencing, please. I want to know where to look to
: confirm these...
Gee..that's all you want? Wouldn't you like full-page bibliographies,
biographies of the writer/artist, cover-sheet, a 15-page report
double-spaced report on the history of comic book sales on title with
starting with the letter 'J' as well? I'm sure someone out there
would also love to calculate the daily sales of JSA, correlate
that with the average amount of ink on each page of SPAWN, find
a relationship between those factors and the number of Republicans
elected as well...
--
/--------------------------------------------------------------\\\ \\
|(C) This Post/Letter is Copyrighted 1994, And it's MINE!MINE! | \\-\\
|-Daily Orange Staff Writer-&*Keeper of the Forbush Man Flame* | ( X-X)SPOON!
\--------------------------------------------------------------/ {_^_} _/
Dennis Wiebusch
For ten months, JSA was my favorite title. Every month I looked forward
to it, waiting for that fifteen minutes of breathless excitement that it
gave me. I have never seen another title compare to its themes, its
unique characterizations, and its sequential art expression.
So when the plug was pulled on it, I was steamed. Not surprised, though,
because most of my favorite DC titles had been cancelled. But this
series, more than any other, EVEN beside Suicide Squad, The Question, and
The Shadow, touched me the most. And it's dead.
So you could understand why I am a little miffed at DC for cancelling a
book due to its lack of place in the DC universe. At least I hope you
can.
I don't believe that I have the right to demand anything of Mr. Wayne.
But I understand why others, in their frustration, do. I want an
explanation really badly, but I know it's not going to solve anything. If
Mr. Wayne can give us one, that would be great. If you can't, well, I
understand.
But as someone said before, the scars from this one run deep. It was the
final straw in my loyalty to DC. No more.
Oh, and about this supposed lack of connection with the older heroes? I'm
19. And the JSA is, always has been, and always will be, my favorite group.
Thanks for your time,
--Chas
Glenn Carnagey
had to say:
......................................................................
Date: 30 Sep 94 15:53:51 EDT
From: Len Strazewski <compuserve.com>
To: <gr...@wimpy.cpe.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Re: Message from Internet
Cancellation of JSA is old news these days, but I'd be happy
to offer a few insights. The title was cancelled, I was told,
for editorial reasons, not for sales. Sales had dipped to the mid
40,000 by issue #4 and started moving upward at that point.
At the end of the run, issues were selling in the 70,000s.
However, some of that sales, I was told, was the result of
polybagging books for mass merchadisers.
In a conversation with Mike Carlin, I was told that he didn't
think the title was salable in the long run and that he really didn't
like my writing. He denied that he had ever publically slammed
Mike Parobeck's art but he did say that he didn't think
Mike's art was appropriate for contemporary super-hero comics.
After cancellation, I was never offered or contacted about new work
at DC until the recent San Diego Con when Archie Goodwin suggested
I submit a proposal for a Legends of the DarkKnight arc with
Norm Breyfogle.
Now, a couple of years after cancellation, the most common question
I am asked at conventions is "What happened to the JSA series?"
Len
P.S. I'd be happy to see a gist of the conversation on the Net if
that's possible.
......................................................................
I sent him most of the germaine articles.
We would do well to remember that it's safe to assume all these folks
are in comics because they love comics, that this is a meeting of big
commerce and art (which is often tough on everyone involved), and that
it's always possible to disagree and keep it polite, but it usually
requires a conscious effort. None of us are infallible at the latter.
:-)
A historical note to those newish to this forum: JSA was a beloved
book here, and an *incredibly* unpopular cancellation.
Understandably, I hope, it's an old sore spot, and the Zero Hour
"retirement" of the Justice Society re-opened the wound. I believe it
was voted a Squiddy for Best New Series in '92 (maybe Tom or Roger
could confirm that for us). I know Len would rather move on and talk
about Prime, and I'm sure the other pros would just as soon change the
subject, too. But few if any of us are 15, we don't forget so easily,
it may be a while. :-)
Pax ex machina,
Glenn
......................................................................
"Home, home in thuh strange, whar muh life an' mah world is de-ranged
whar ah should be stone dead, 'coz I clear lost muh head,
but I ain't, ah'm just sutterly changed..."
"Welcome to Neither-Nor. You ain't. We ain't."
--- Rogan Gosh
g-car...@uchicago.edu, if you must know
......................................................................
Dwight Williams
In a previous article, ho...@newstand.syr.edu (Vorpal BunnyTM)) says:
>Dwight Williams (ad...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
>: In a previous article, magi...@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Todd Allen) says:
>
>: > By the end of the run, if memory serves me, JSA was selling in the
>: >neighborhood of 70 -80,000. My source is Len Strazewski, the writer.
>: >If you'd like me to confirm this, I will.
>
>: I'd appreciate that. And I'd like to see them from start of run to finish
>: if that's possible. The same request _still_ applies as well to Mr. Wayne
>: of DC Direct Sales, BTW, so an informed opinion can be developed.
>
>: Facts, with footnote referencing, please. I want to know where to look to
>: confirm these...
>
>biographies of the writer/artist, cover-sheet, a 15-page report
>double-spaced report on the history of comic book sales on title with
>starting with the letter 'J' as well? I'm sure someone out there
>would also love to calculate the daily sales of JSA, correlate
>that with the average amount of ink on each page of SPAWN, find
>a relationship between those factors and the number of Republicans
>elected as well...
>
postings in this thread. It's just not worth me being rude to anyone
here about it by accident or by design(In this case, by accident.). I made
enough enemies in high school, I don't wan't to make them _here_. _Ever_.
Fair enough?
Beware the Glenner
>
>As I recall, the timing of the initial cancellation announcement _did_
>strike many here on rac.misc as premature in the extreme, and the reasons
>given at the time seemed unconvincing or outrageous, and bad memories are
>tenacious.
Well, the rumors hit here almost simultaneously with the first book,
but were dismissed initially, because the rationalization which
accompanied the rumor (we're not gonna do books your grandfathers
read) was shocking enough that no one wanted to believe it. It
shouldn't surprise anyone that JSA fans are a little touchy post-Less
Than Zero Hour, though.
How that editorial decision related to sales, who knows. They gave
GL: Mosaic several extra issues due to some better sales, I think. It
happens. It's hard for me to believe they still cancelled it with the
kind of sales Todd was suggesting, particularly given what Bob Wayne
said. He knows a whole lot better than any of us, including Dan, I'd
think. :-) I'll ask Len next time I see him. On second thought, now
that Halley's and the Torchlight are ex-hangouts, could be a while,
I'll send e-mail. :-( But again, it's Bob Wayne's job to know about
sales, eh? Can you say horse's mouth? :-)
>I have a problem with _that_ however. Kurt Ala-Kantti, my regular
>retailer, has _often_ complained about being _repeatedly_ short-changed by
>his distributor on his orders over the years. He has had to change
>distributors on several occasions over the last five years in order to
>combat this problem.
It's pretty common, especially when the print run is too short. But
it's just part of the process, or less commonly because the
distributor screwed up. I can't see it affecting the editorial
decision on JSA one way or the other.
But someone, at some point, suggest the preceding miniseries didn't do
well sales-wise, which is definitely not how I remember it. Matt, do
you have sales figure that far back?
>> You want to start pointing fingers, point them at retailers who lose
>>faith in books and cut orders on titles so they can stock up on so called
>>_hot_ comics.
Can't argue with that. But instant karma, in the form of things like
Deathmate, already got a lot of those guys. You don't sell what you
order, you're outta there.
Pax ex machina,
Glenn
......................................................................
"Whoever said "brevity is the soul of wit,"
doesn't get paid by the word."
--- Kyle Baker
Vorpal Bunny(TM)
: Well, I've since reconsidered on the above, if you've seen my subsequent
: postings in this thread. It's just not worth me being rude to anyone
: here about it by accident or by design(In this case, by accident.). I made
: enough enemies in high school, I don't wan't to make them _here_. _Ever_.
Great...now I feel guilty enough. As for my slammings, those were
done BEFORE I saw your posts about how you didn't want to inadvertently
come off as a jerk. Now that I've seen, I feel kinda bad I was quite
so sarcastic towards you. Sorry. I guess you did have some right to
know at least the full story behind JSA.
Jason Fliegel
Vorpal Bunny(TM) <ho...@mailbox.syr.edu> wrote:
>Dwight Williams (ad...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
>
>
>: Well, I've since reconsidered on the above, if you've seen my subsequent
>: postings in this thread. It's just not worth me being rude to anyone
>: here about it by accident or by design(In this case, by accident.). I made
>: enough enemies in high school, I don't wan't to make them _here_. _Ever_.
>
>Great...now I feel guilty enough. As for my slammings, those were
>done BEFORE I saw your posts about how you didn't want to inadvertently
>come off as a jerk. Now that I've seen, I feel kinda bad I was quite
>so sarcastic towards you. Sorry. I guess you did have some right to
>know at least the full story behind JSA.
>
See! People canbe nice to each other on the 'net!
--
Jason Fliegel | jb...@darwin.clas.virginia.edu | (804) 979-0339
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"This ain't the way to spell my name!"
Yogi Berra, on receiving a check saying "Pay to Bearer"
Vorpal Bunny(TM)
: >Great...now I feel guilty enough. As for my slammings, those were
: >done BEFORE I saw your posts about how you didn't want to inadvertently
: >come off as a jerk. Now that I've seen, I feel kinda bad I was quite
: >so sarcastic towards you. Sorry. I guess you did have some right to
: >know at least the full story behind JSA.
: >
: I hope Mark Waid is reading this.
: See! People canbe nice to each other on the 'net!
Shut up cheese-head!
(I'm kidding, btw)
iba...@ac.dal.ca
one where Kulak (sp?) appears at the end, and the letters page mentioned a
last issue wrap up. Did that issue ever appear? I never saw it in my account.
Wish I could remember issue numbers - have to head down to the cellar and
dig the series up soon...
Jamie Lauchlan
_ ___
/ `-' ( III
|( II ||||||||||||||[***] 1979 MusicMan Stingray
\_.-.__( l Thanks Leo (R.I.P.)
"BASS IS SOME SERIOUS SHIT" - Bill Laswell
Nick Eden
> mentioned alast issue wrap up. Did that issue ever appear? I never saw
> it in my account.
> > Wish I could remember issue numbers - have to head down to the cellar
> anddig the series up soon...
It was issue 10 and it aounds as though you missed it. It was a good
comic. Hell the whole series stood head and shoulders above most of what
the big 2 were publishing then and are publishing now.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
What would have happened of (a) Bouadicea had been the daughter of Edward
the Confessor? (b) Canute had suceeded in sitting on the waves?
Does it matter?