DC Chokes Again!
Callan Jacobson
Twilight has got me burning. I just began collecting comics
seriously in the last six months, having just picked up the GLs
infrequently for the last couple of years along with some misc. DC
mainstreamers.
I have noticed an increasing lack of quality in DC's work (as have you,
probably). It seems that once they "killed" Superman and received such a
hellacious response, DCs leadership felt that they must give the entire
DC universe an enema. Cases in point...
Superman: He's dead, he's back, he's got...long hair? What's up with
making Superman "hip?" Have you noticed that all the characters in the
Superman titles have been redrawn to more closely resemble the lackluster
ABC "Lois and Clark: You'll See Superman In The Last 5 Minutes" series?
While I thought that the 'Reign of the Supermen' storyline was well done,
it seems that the writers have all gone on vacation since then.
Batman: Ok Ok Ok...Bruce leaves, we get Jean Paul the "Terminator"
Batman. Kinder, gentler Bats he ain't; certainly no sleuth. And letting
him get his butt kicked by Catwoman was a joke. What kind of
crime-fighter is this if he is distracted by babes one minute and acid
trips from his past the next? After "Knightfall" and "Knightquest" and
the upcoming "Knightsearch", what next for DC? How can they drag this
inane story on longer: "KnightyKnight," "KnightMare," "KnightRider?"
And Green Lantern: Oh, Lord. You've read everybody else's comments on
this, and I agree with those who think it is a farce. Once again, DC
tries to make $$$ by altering a major tried-and-true character. The
much-hyped overly-violent glow-in-the-dark-cover-gimmicked #50 just
proves this.
Who next? Your comments would be appreciated.
Cal J.
cal...@comtch.iea.com
Larry Trutter
> While I thought that the 'Reign of the Supermen' storyline was well done,
> it seems that the writers have all gone on vacation since then.
strong as the "Reign of Supermen" storyline- due to lack of suspense. There
will be a battle between Lex and Supes and a rematch between Supes and
Doomsday(don't you think Supes would take along Capt. Marvel and Capt. Atom
considering the last fight killed him?)
> trips from his past the next? After "Knightfall" and "Knightquest" and
> the upcoming "Knightsearch", what next for DC? How can they drag this
> inane story on longer: "KnightyKnight," "KnightMare," "KnightRider?"
Ah, this storyline looks like it is going to fall into the Iron Man
syndrome, which is the major character is crippled, killed, and God knows
what. I sincerely hope Batman will not become another "Iron Man".
> And Green Lantern: Oh, Lord. You've read everybody else's comments on
> this, and I agree with those who think it is a farce. Once again, DC
> tries to make $$$ by altering a major tried-and-true character. The
> much-hyped overly-violent glow-in-the-dark-cover-gimmicked #50 just
> proves this.
Hey, I liked the glow-in-the-dark cover. :-) Jordan a tried and true
character? It seems to me that many people don't care about him. I stopped
getting GL series after 13 or so issues because...Hal Jordan is taking over
and is too perfect. I rather have Guy Gardner or John Stewart in it.
Some people say they changed Jordan due to bad writing. I would like to
ask what changes would have you liked to see in Jordan if they didn't make
him into a villian.
> Who next? Your comments would be appreciated.
Looked like they are screwing up Captain Atom in the Justice League. I
have never known him to have a crewcut. Now he looked like his arch-enemy,
Major Force. What's with him and Maxima? I thought he was happy with
Plastique. Vado seems to interpret Capt. Atom as an uptight character.
Yeah, right. It seems the he neglected to read the Captain Atom comics as a
character reference. :-(
--
Larry Trutter
Sangamon State University
tru...@eagle.sangamon.edu
Larry_...@thequest.com
Joseph Walker
>Like a lot of you out there, the whole mess with Green Lantern: Emerald
>Twilight has got me burning. I just began collecting comics
>seriously in the last six months, having just picked up the GLs
>infrequently for the last couple of years along with some misc. DC
>mainstreamers.
>I have noticed an increasing lack of quality in DC's work (as have you,
>probably). It seems that once they "killed" Superman and received such a
>hellacious response, DCs leadership felt that they must give the entire
>DC universe an enema. Cases in point...
>Superman: He's dead, he's back, he's got...long hair? What's up with
>making Superman "hip?" Have you noticed that all the characters in the
>Superman titles have been redrawn to more closely resemble the lackluster
>ABC "Lois and Clark: You'll See Superman In The Last 5 Minutes" series?
>While I thought that the 'Reign of the Supermen' storyline was well done,
>it seems that the writers have all gone on vacation since then.
I must say that I disagree with you here; I think the Superman titles, by
and large, remain well-done and interesting. I do find the art changes to
be a little ridiculous, but this too shall pass--and besides, it's the
writing that really matters. What really impresses me about the Superman
books is the tight continuity, stretching all the way back to the Byrne
years. That could be restrictive, but instead the writers use it to build
on the characters and tell ever more interesting stories. Thumbs up from
this corner.
>Batman: Ok Ok Ok...Bruce leaves, we get Jean Paul the "Terminator"
>Batman. Kinder, gentler Bats he ain't; certainly no sleuth. And letting
>him get his butt kicked by Catwoman was a joke. What kind of
>crime-fighter is this if he is distracted by babes one minute and acid
>trips from his past the next? After "Knightfall" and "Knightquest" and
>the upcoming "Knightsearch", what next for DC? How can they drag this
>inane story on longer: "KnightyKnight," "KnightMare," "KnightRider?"
Agree. Heartily agree. What's really frustrating is that this whole
storyline--Bruce gets taken down, turns the mantle over to a psycho,
eventually has to get it back--COULD have been fascinating. However,
they made two mistakes. First the whole thing should have taken six months
at the most. Instead it took almost eight months just to get step one
finished; Jean-Paul has been Batman for, what, close to a year now, and
the final confrontation between the two has yet to heave itself over the
horizon. Booooooring. Second mistake: the whole storyline has been
poorly written and planned, almost as if they don't really know how to
kill the time while they wait for the showdown. Blech. A few months
back I finally bit the bullet and dropped all my Batman titles, breaking
a string of roughly 175 straight issues of BATMAN and DETECTIVE. It
hurt, but not as much as reading them did.
>And Green Lantern: Oh, Lord. You've read everybody else's comments on
>this, and I agree with those who think it is a farce. Once again, DC
>tries to make $$$ by altering a major tried-and-true character. The
>much-hyped overly-violent glow-in-the-dark-cover-gimmicked #50 just
>proves this.
>Who next? Your comments would be appreciated.
>Cal J.
>cal...@comtch.iea.com
I think DC is in a LOT of trouble. As recently as two years ago, I
collected almost the entire line; now I buy the Superman titles, Flash,
Showcase, and Sandman. That's it. Flash seems to be heading the direction
of GL and Batman, but the arc is well-written and true to the character;
I'll stick with it, at least for now. Sandman is about to end. Showcase
usually has one story worth reading, but rarely anything really good. I'm
guessing that there are a lot of DC readers out there like me.
The drop in quality in DC has been truly astounding. It seems like every
book has a great run by a good creator that ended a year or two ago, and
now the book is a shadow of what it was. Even most of the much-hyped
Vertigo line is a waste; it's not adult, just weird for the sake of
weirdness. The Legion titles sink further and further into a continuity
swamp; I suppose Zero hour will fix that, but who will care by then?
The Justice League titles are just tiresome excercises in bad humor and
boring angst. Wonder Woman is a disgrace. Why bother with any of it?
I did forget to mention one book which is still great: BATMAN ADVENTURES.
Thank God the REAL Batman is still around. I also have high hopes fo
Peter David's AQUAMAN--though I predict right now that it won't see its
twenty-fifth issue.
Ah, DC--where have ye gone?
Joe Walker
walk...@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Omega Man #1 @15036
0R: net33: @15036 [00:09 02/20/94]
RE: DC Chokes Again!
BY: callanj#comtch.iea.com (Callan Jacobson) #900 @520
Superman: He's dead, he's back, he's got...long hair? What's up with
making Superman "hip?" Have you noticed that all the characters in the
Superman titles have been redrawn to more closely resemble the lackluster
ABC "Lois and Clark: You'll See Superman In The Last 5 Minutes" series?
While I thought that the 'Reign of the Supermen' storyline was well done,
it seems that the writers have all gone on vacation since then.
In order:
1) It's not the first time Clark's been drawn as "hip". Remember those posters
from the early 70's where he was flying with his fingers raised in the peace
sign?
1a) Once saw an airbrushed version of that with one of the fingers removed.
You can guess which one...:-)
2) Personally, the best thing that "Lois & Clark" has going for it is the fact
that you see as little of Superman as you do. As the pilot shows, the entire
tone of the series takes a real turn for the unbelievable when Clark puts on
the underwear - a definate reversal of how the character has been portrayed on
the screen before.
Batman: Ok Ok Ok...Bruce leaves, we get Jean Paul the "Terminator"
Batman. Kinder, gentler Bats he ain't; certainly no sleuth. And letting
him get his butt kicked by Catwoman was a joke. What kind of
crime-fighter is this if he is distracted by babes one minute and acid
trips from his past the next? After "Knightfall" and "Knightquest" and
the upcoming "Knightsearch", what next for DC? How can they drag this
inane story on longer: "KnightyKnight," "KnightMare," "KnightRider?"
...well, we're going to have the Bob Seger crossover, called "Knight Moves",
and the Darrin McGavin team up called "Kolchak: the Knight Stalker. Both of
these will be in _Batman_ and _Detective_. _LOTDK_ will feature the Bee Gees
crossover, appropriately entitled "Saturday Knight Fever", and _SOTB_ will
feature the long-awaited Freddy Krueger matchup called "Knightmare on Elm
Street".
And Green Lantern: Oh, Lord. You've read everybody else's comments on
this, and I agree with those who think it is a farce. Once again, DC
tries to make $$$ by altering a major tried-and-true character. The
much-hyped overly-violent glow-in-the-dark-cover-gimmicked #50 just
proves this.
Personally, I thought this particular glow-in-the-dark cover was lame compared
to the ones we've seen in the past - especially the _Spectre_ covers.
Who next? Your comments would be appreciated.
Lessee...Flash is probably immune. After all, Wally's got too much "let's just
fuck with him" potential to be killed off anytime soon. Wonder Woman *could* be
next, although I suspect that all we'll see is her getting pregnant and having
to deal with who the father is. Aquaman's pretty safe, as I don't see PAD
letting him get royally fucked over anytime within the first year of the
regular book. And Wolfman's promised he'd get the Titans back in order just to
keep the fans from lynching him at conventions.
Hmmm...so who does that leave?
OM
1
1 512-459-1088 KLINGON EMPIRE BBS WWIVNet @5282
1 Up Since 11/1/86The Home of WWIVNews24hrs 2400-9600Bd
1... .... .. _
Jeffrey Leonard Slutzky
> kill the time while they wait for the showdown. Blech. A few months
> back I finally bit the bullet and dropped all my Batman titles, breaking
> a string of roughly 175 straight issues of BATMAN and DETECTIVE. It
> hurt, but not as much as reading them did.
I'm with you. I had been a faithful reader of Batman and Detective ever since
fifth grade - that's nine years ago. I was more loyal to those
titles than to any other. Then, after Batman 501 or 502, I
stopped. The changes have annoyed me that much.
Is Bruce Wayne eventually supposed to reclaim the mantle?
That's what it seems like some people here are implying. I
thought the changes were permanent.
> I think DC is in a LOT of trouble. As recently as two years ago, I
> collected almost the entire line; now I buy the Superman titles, Flash,
> Showcase, and Sandman. That's it. Flash seems to be heading the direction
> of GL and Batman, but the arc is well-written and true to the character;
> I'll stick with it, at least for now. Sandman is about to end. Showcase
> usually has one story worth reading, but rarely anything really good. I'm
> guessing that there are a lot of DC readers out there like me.
Hi there.
> The Justice League titles are just tiresome excercises in bad humor and
> boring angst. Wonder Woman is a disgrace. Why bother with any of it?
Actually, the Justice League titles are among my favorite right
now. I really like the character interaction. Apparently
they're all heading for some big climax. One side of me is
looking forward to it, thinking, "This will be really cool,"
but the other side of me is thinking, "Great, what are they
going to screw up this time?"
> Ah, DC--where have ye gone?
To the bank.
- Jeff Slutzky
Paul L. Moses
villain....(you asked)
1. Have him marry one of the women in the title - Carol Ferris,
Arisia, Olivia Reynolds
2. Marry someone outside the title - Power Girl, Black Canary,
Lana Lang for god's sake even
3. Write the character for WHAT HE IS: CONSERVATIVE but NOT
RACIST. Face facts, he was in the Air Force, he spends his life
with jets, his girlfriend was rich as hell (Ferris), he was the
foil to Green Arrow's save-the-earth liberalism for YEARS, he was
an entrepreneur (travelling salesman). He's a major law and order
kinda guy. There are bazillions of politically aware liberal
characters out there making social commentary, how about one from
the right? THAT would rattle a lot of trees in the industry,
probably too many. It would also prove that the industry is as
"diverse" and "mature" as it claims to be - by presenting more than
one view of things.
4. GREEN LANTERN IS A SCIENCE FICTION CHARACTER. USE SOME SCIENCE
FOR A CHANGE!!!!!!!!! Too much space opera, not enough physics.
John Broome could write science into his stories; surely someone
else out there can as well. Or is that asking too much of this
"mature" industry.
5. Dredge up the Social Conscience stuff from the '70's. Do a new
GL/GA, with Hal as a *credible* conservative against Ollie as a
*credible* liberal.
6. EXPLORE WHAT THE STUPID POWER BATTERY IS, EXACTLY. Tie it into
the mystical parts of the DC Universe - the Lords of Order surely
have something to do with the "mystic energies" of the power
battery. Retcon Sinestro into being seduced by the Lords of Chaos,
or something...in short: Magic Xover BEGGING to be done.
7. If they can milk Superman for 50 years, it's pretty ridiculous
to say that Hal is used up or can't be written anymore. Do
something silly, like Red Kryptonite or the Bizarros.
8. Make Hal a FATHER.
HELL I DON"T GET PAID FOR THIS AND I CAN THINK OF A LOT OF THINGS.
THOSE IDIOTS WHO WROTE ET SHOULD BE FIRED.
Paul
Callan Jacobson
: In my opinion, the Superman series is still going strong but not as
: strong as the "Reign of Supermen" storyline- due to lack of suspense. There
: will be a battle between Lex and Supes and a rematch between Supes and
: Doomsday(don't you think Supes would take along Capt. Marvel and Capt. Atom
: considering the last fight killed him?)
: Ah, this storyline looks like it is going to fall into the Iron Man
: syndrome, which is the major character is crippled, killed, and God knows
: what. I sincerely hope Batman will not become another "Iron Man".
: Hey, I liked the glow-in-the-dark cover. :-) Jordan a tried and true
: character? It seems to me that many people don't care about him. I stopped
: getting GL series after 13 or so issues because...Hal Jordan is taking over
: and is too perfect. I rather have Guy Gardner or John Stewart in it.
: Some people say they changed Jordan due to bad writing. I would like to
: ask what changes would have you liked to see in Jordan if they didn't make
: him into a villian.
Well, the cover of GL#50 *was* cool, but anymore "special" covers seem to
be the standard fare.
If Hal Jordan was do distraught over the loss of Coast City, then he
could have thrown in the towel, or gone on a vigilante spree, or
something *besides* kill 90% of the Green Lantern Corps, snap Sinestro's
neck, and trash the Main Battery. For a man who, in GL#1 (second series)
just wanted to live a salt-of-the-earth life without constantly using his
ring, this whole power-hungry trip was not true to character.
If DC thought sales of GL were poor, and that the comic needed a shot in
the arm, fine. If they decided to replace Hal Jordan with another person
or just not focus on Hal for a while, fine. If they even wanted to kill
off Hal Jordan--in the line of duty-- fine. This just seemed reckless
story-writing.
Cal J.
cal...@comtch.iea.com
P.S. : Superman? Boring? Yep.
"Legends of the Iron Knight"? It's starting to look that way...
Callan Jacobson
: OK, changes they could make in Hal Jordan without making him a
: villain....(you asked)
: 1. Have him marry one of the women in the title - Carol Ferris,
: Arisia, Olivia Reynolds
Yikes: "Carol and Hal: The New Adventures of Green Lantern?!"
: 2. Marry someone outside the title - Power Girl, Black Canary,
: Lana Lang for god's sake even
: 3. Write the character for WHAT HE IS: CONSERVATIVE but NOT
: RACIST. Face facts, he was in the Air Force, he spends his life
: with jets, his girlfriend was rich as hell (Ferris), he was the
: foil to Green Arrow's save-the-earth liberalism for YEARS, he was
: an entrepreneur (travelling salesman). He's a major law and order
: kinda guy. There are bazillions of politically aware liberal
: characters out there making social commentary, how about one from
: the right? THAT would rattle a lot of trees in the industry,
: probably too many. It would also prove that the industry is as
: "diverse" and "mature" as it claims to be - by presenting more than
: one view of things.
Well said.
: 4. GREEN LANTERN IS A SCIENCE FICTION CHARACTER. USE SOME SCIENCE
: FOR A CHANGE!!!!!!!!! Too much space opera, not enough physics.
: 5. Dredge up the Social Conscience stuff from the '70's. Do a new
: GL/GA, with Hal as a *credible* conservative against Ollie as a
: *credible* liberal.
Probably "too contraversial" for the folks who kill characters at the
drop of a hat.
: 6. EXPLORE WHAT THE STUPID POWER BATTERY IS, EXACTLY. Tie it into
: the mystical parts of the DC Universe - the Lords of Order surely
: have something to do with the "mystic energies" of the power
: battery. Retcon Sinestro into being seduced by the Lords of Chaos,
: or something...in short: Magic Xover BEGGING to be done.
: 7. If they can milk Superman for 50 years, it's pretty ridiculous
: to say that Hal is used up or can't be written anymore. Do
: something silly, like Red Kryptonite or the Bizarros.
They just did. It was GL#50! :(
: 8. Make Hal a FATHER.
: HELL I DON"T GET PAID FOR THIS AND I CAN THINK OF A LOT OF THINGS.
: THOSE IDIOTS WHO WROTE ET SHOULD BE FIRED.
Like a lot of things in the entertainment industry anymore: anything
unusual or 'against-the-grain' is entertaining, and therefore good. Case
in point: look at all the follow-up albums for every Seattle grunge
band. Suck-O-Rama!
Cal J.
cal...@comtch.iea.com
Mean Mister Mustard
>: 3. Write the character for WHAT HE IS: CONSERVATIVE but NOT
>: RACIST. Face facts, he was in the Air Force, he spends his life
>: with jets, his girlfriend was rich as hell (Ferris), he was the
>: foil to Green Arrow's save-the-earth liberalism for YEARS, he was
>: an entrepreneur (travelling salesman). He's a major law and order
>: kinda guy. There are bazillions of politically aware liberal
>: characters out there making social commentary, how about one from
>: the right? THAT would rattle a lot of trees in the industry,
>: probably too many. It would also prove that the industry is as
>: "diverse" and "mature" as it claims to be - by presenting more than
>: one view of things.
Well, I would definitely prefer this (or just about anything else) to the
current storyline (and believe me, I'm using that term VERY loosely). But
I don't know if I agree with your assertion that there are bazillions of
liberal characters out there, or that the commentary comics make is always
liberal.
There are some much-publicized "liberal" companies/labels, but upon closer
examination I don't think they're uniformly liberal at all. Milestone's Icon
is a black conservative, for example, while Blood Syndicate just shows the
life of a street gang without delivering too many sermons. Don't get me
started on Ania (how liberal can they be when all the criminals are white,
all the women are cheesecake, and all the gays are gang-rapers?).
I agree with your assessment of Hal as conservative but not racist (in fact,
I don't remember when he was written as racist). Basically, Hal Jordan is
just another one of DC's Silver Age, conservative heroes like Barry Allen
or Ray Palmer.
But is there really a need for GL or any of these other characters to start
making "conservative commentary"? Some people, myself included, feel that
most comics are not just conservative, but often outright reactionary.
This is because of certain brainless comics' depiction of women and
other stereotypes, the pointless violence, and so on... I'm not saying that
those things are the cornerstones of conservatism, but that they're why
comics are generally anything but liberal. (In fact, I'm glad that isn't
what conservatives are about, because then we would've spent the last
12 years living inside Image comics... brr...)
>: 5. Dredge up the Social Conscience stuff from the '70's. Do a new
>: GL/GA, with Hal as a *credible* conservative against Ollie as a
>: *credible* liberal.
I thought Gerard Jones was establishing this (which I would've eagerly bought)
when he teamed up GL and GA in #48... but instead GL became a mass-murderer
and the latest house ads show GA carrying two guns (then why is he still the
Green Arrow? why not Burnt-Siena Bullet or something?). Sigh.
Marc
Xenovirus Elmo-A
> 6. EXPLORE WHAT THE STUPID POWER BATTERY IS, EXACTLY. Tie it into
> the mystical parts of the DC Universe - the Lords of Order surely
> have something to do with the "mystic energies" of the power
> battery. Retcon Sinestro into being seduced by the Lords of Chaos,
> or something.
Dull, dull, dull, dull.
Besides, we know what the power is. Each Guardian is a living power
battery (so it's psionic). Some small fraction of their power is siphoned
into the Central Battery and fanned out to the smaller personal batteries.
To put it into perspective: A Guardian can wipe the floor with one of
Marvel's Elders and can challenge a Celestial. The fact that they're
not written that way nowadays is a lack of imagination on the creators'
part.
--
"Seriousness is the only refuge of the shallow."--Oscar Wilde
elmo (mor...@physics.rice.edu,mor...@fnal.fnal.gov)
CAP...@vm.temple.edu
References: <2k278d$2...@bethel.connected.com>
X-Newsreader: NNR/VM S_1.3.2
In article <2k278d$2...@bethel.connected.com>
cal...@comtch.iea.com (Callan Jacobson) writes:
>Superman: He's dead, he's back, he's got...long hair? What's up with
>making Superman "hip?"
Personally, I like the long hair...although I'm sure it'll be gone any day
now.
> Have you noticed that all the characters in the
>Superman titles have been redrawn to more closely resemble the lackluster
>ABC "Lois and Clark: You'll See Superman In The Last 5 Minutes" series?
Don't tell me you *prefer* the scenes when he's in the suit?!? Yuck.
>Who next? Your comments would be appreciated.
As long it's not FLASH -- the only non-SANDMAN DC book i regularly collect --
I couldn't care less. =)
---------------
Captain Frank A. Lauro
Commanding Officer, Deep Space Two (c/o Temple University)
do...@earlham.edu
ma...@wam.umd.edu (Mean Mister Mustard) writes:
>>Paul L. Moses (plm...@emoryu1.cc.emory.edu) wrote:
>>: 3. Write the character for WHAT HE IS: CONSERVATIVE but NOT
>>: RACIST. Face facts, he was in the Air Force, he spends his life
>I agree with your assessment of Hal as conservative but not racist (in fact,
>I don't remember when he was written as racist). Basically, Hal Jordan is
>just another one of DC's Silver Age, conservative heroes like Barry Allen
>or Ray Palmer.
>
Think about the implications of his nicknaming an Eskimo
"Pieface." Tom was rather forgiving about it in SECRET ORIGINS, but it
still doesn't reflect well on him. (Also, the first GL/GA story made it
clear that race relations were very low on his list of priorities.)
--Doug
Paul L. Moses
-thoughtlessness- more than outright racism. The GL/GA era made
Hal aware of the problems of race, and he always made an effort to
see what was really going on after this period. If Hal continued
to call Tom "Pie", it was simply because this was a nickname they
were both used to, and it carried no derogatory connotations for
either of them. (Actually I think Hal and Tom had a discussion
about that once...)
Bad writers destroy things they are unable to use.
Paul
Paul L. Moses
: plm...@emoryu1.cc.emory.edu (Paul L. Moses) writes:
: > 6. EXPLORE WHAT THE STUPID POWER BATTERY IS, EXACTLY. Tie it into
: > the mystical parts of the DC Universe - the Lords of Order surely
: > have something to do with the "mystic energies" of the power
: > battery. Retcon Sinestro into being seduced by the Lords of Chaos,
: > or something.
: Dull, dull, dull, dull.
: Besides, we know what the power is. Each Guardian is a living power
: battery (so it's psionic). Some small fraction of their power is siphoned
: into the Central Battery and fanned out to the smaller personal batteries.
: To put it into perspective: A Guardian can wipe the floor with one of
: Marvel's Elders and can challenge a Celestial. The fact that they're
: not written that way nowadays is a lack of imagination on the creators
: part.
It wouldn't -necessarily- be dull, depending how well it was
written and drawn, as with anything. You are really only talking
about the surface of things, though. I think there is plenty of
room to explore HOW the Guardians became so powerful and WHAT
exactly the power is. Maybe they are Lords of Order themselves in
physical manifestation. Maybe they are simply agents of the Lords
of Order. Hey, they've been secretive and mysterious for ever and
ever. Maybe it's because they cannot reveal the designs of the
Lords of Order. It could be a spell or curse, or simply fear of
losing control to the lords of Chaos.
Advantages: New area to explore. More logical way to reconcile
Alan Scott's power with the Corps. Easy way to retcon Emerald
Twilight, too - conjure up some bizarre demon to account for Hal's
evil behavior. Or better yet, use Entropy/Kronos.
Paul
Bad writers destroy the achievements of their betters.
Mean Mister Mustard
Good point, one that I hadn't thought of. Originally, of course, this was
due not to Hal's "racism," but to the Silver Age writers' own culture and
times -- one in which the largely white mainstream saw nothing wrong with
calling Eskimos (which as PAD wrote in Aquaman T&T, is itself a name given
by whites) "pieface." I think this ought to be forgotten from DC's
continuity... kind of like the way DC prefers to forget the Inferior Five,
which in addition to not being funny, ridiculed overweight people and said
all blond women were bimbos.
Especially when you consider that with DC's "sliding time scale", where
everything has happened in the last 12 years or so, Hal called Tom "pieface"
in 1982! I think by then, he would've known better.
Marc
do...@earlham.edu
>-thoughtlessness- more than outright racism. The GL/GA era made
>Hal aware of the problems of race, and he always made an effort to
>see what was really going on after this period. If Hal continued
Although I don't want to start a major discussion of this,
unconcious racial stereotyping is still racism. Hal wasn't a conscious
bigot or anything, I admit, and he's improved considerably. He did start
out with a major blind spot towards minorities, though.
--Doug
The Mystic Mongoose
Well, GL:Mosaic, especially the last couple of issues, would seem to show
that Hal's prejudices have mostly, if not wholly, disappeared. I'd say
working with John Stewart probably eliminated his prejudices... And I *like*
the idea of the GL/GA return... as long as we get the real Hal and not
MarzHal. Lots of interesting possibilities.
The Mystic Mongoose, aka Robert W. Armstrong
Leader of the Baylor Jihad
Ultimate Prophet of The Church of the Anti-Barney Incarnate
B*rney must die. As soon and as painfully as possible.
Le Petit Elmo
> : > have something to do with the "mystic energies" of the power
> : > battery.
I wrote:
> : Dull, dull, dull, dull.
plm...@emoryu1.cc.emory.edu (Paul L. Moses) writes:
> It wouldn't -necessarily- be dull,
Nope. Lords of Order/Chaos stories are dull by definition :-)
They were stultifyingly dull when they were used to explain Amethyst,
they were very nearly dull when they were used to explain Hawk and Dove,
they were fatally dull when they were used to explain Kid Eternity,
they were moronically dull when they were used in Kupperberg's Phantom
Stranger mini, and they were catastrophically dull when they were used to
change Doctor Fate.
I have no expectation that they will ever be not dull again and in
particular I have every confidence that they would be dull if they were
used to explain the Guardians. As far as I'm concerned, the *only*
interesting LoO/C stories were the Pasko/Giffen Doctor Fate backups in
the Flash.
YMMV, of course.
> I think there is plenty of
> room to explore HOW the Guardians became so powerful and WHAT
> exactly the power is.
Sure.
> Maybe they are Lords of Order themselves in
> physical manifestation. Maybe they are simply agents of the Lords
> of Order.
Why is it so hard to suppose that the Guardians are so powerful
because they've been around for most of the 12-16 billion years this
universe has existed?
> Advantages: New area to explore.
Nope. See above examples of how the same LoO/C malarkey has been
gone over again and again, usually poorly.
> More logical way to reconcile Alan Scott's power with the Corps.
Why? It's already been reconciled [1]. The Guardians gathered what magical
energy they could into the Starheart. The Starheart sent a portion of
itself to Earth for a champion's use. Why must there be any more
connection than that?
> Easy way to retcon Emerald Twilight, too - use Entropy/Kronos.
Niven's adulterations just show how little he understands either
Guardian myth and mystique or shared universes.
Now, this is all my opinion, of course; as I said, your mileage may
vary. I don't see any reason to change any of the underlying premise
of Green Lantern, but then I'm a loud-mouthed traditionalist and DC
doesn't want my money.
[1] and multiply retconned, of course. The New DC.
--
"The state trooper was driving a Fury II. State troopers _love_ Fury IIs.
State troopers will go on driving Fury IIs until some car company puts out a
car called Kill. Then state troopers will drive Kills. State troopers get
their self image from Marvel Comics."
--Donald E. Westlake
elmo (mor...@physics.rice.edu,mor...@fnal.fnal.gov)
Andrew Farrell
>Nope. Lords of Order/Chaos stories are dull by definition :-)
[list deleted]
>As far as I'm concerned, the *only* interesting LoO/C stories were the
>Pasko/Giffen Doctor Fate backups in the Flash.
What about Lord Kilderkin and Shivering Jemmy, from Season of Mists?
Andrew.
--
Whereabouts: Mathsoc, Trinity, Centre of The Universe.
Trust me. And don't look down.
Kvitfjelmo
> They were stultifyingly dull when they were used to explain Amethyst,
> they were very nearly dull when they were used to explain Hawk and Dove,
> they were fatally dull when they were used to explain Kid Eternity,
> they were moronically dull when they were used in Kupperberg's Phantom
> Stranger mini, and they were catastrophically dull when they were used to
> change Doctor Fate.
And, evidently, they were forgettably dull when they were used to
give direction to Power Girl in Kupperberg's mini-series :-)
[Thanks to Craig Canevit for noticing!]
--
"If the car industry behaved like the computer industry over the last 30
years, a Rolls-Royce would cost $5, get 300 miles per gallon, and blow up
once a year killing all passengers inside."--Unknown
elmo (mor...@physics.rice.edu,mor...@fnal.fnal.gov)
Kvitfjelmo
> mor...@fnalo.fnal.gov (Le Petit Elmo) writes:
>>As far as I'm concerned, the *only* interesting LoO/C stories were the
>>Pasko/Giffen Doctor Fate backups in the Flash.
>
> What about Lord Kilderkin and Shivering Jemmy, from Season of Mists?
A bit part at best.
--
elmo (mor...@physics.rice.edu,mor...@fnal.fnal.gov)