wanting artists (not eating them)
andrew (MELBOURNE)
Out of curiosity, because apparently this is still itching me, how many
people who "solicit" for artists on USENET actually find quality
artists? The ratio of writers posting to artists seems to be skewed
heavilly towards writers. Are there lots of artists who lurk, looking
for writers to ask for their help?
Also, I have sunk to a new low. I will also eat Editors, Assistant
Editors and Vice-Presidents in charge of Marketing and Distribution.
--
Andrew Melbourne, melb...@sas.upenn.edu, http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~melbourn
-->>THEY DON'T HAVE SPORKS IN LONDON, BUT THEY *DO* HAVE KNORKS!<<--
"I just looked at your page, and you're just another guy. I'd never
remember that face if I met you. Go get your face hideously scarred or
something, bud." -- Jim Smith, rac'er, Tastee Fruit Pie spokesman
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
andrew (MELBOURNE) (melb...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu) wrote:
: Out of curiosity, because apparently this is still itching me, how many
: artists?
The one time I actually asked, I got a response fairly quickly, but when I
sent her a script she took a good look at herself and concluded she wasn't
up to the level she needed to be. I still miss the kid, and wonder where
her art's at now; honestly like that is a valuable asset.
Fortunately, I didn't need to advertise for the artist who's now my
partner; he came to me. :)
: Also, I have sunk to a new low. I will also eat Editors, Assistant
: Editors and Vice-Presidents in charge of Marketing and Distribution.
You want to use a LOT of barbecue sauce with your Bob Rozakis. He needs
to be spiced up a lot.
- Elayne
--
"The kiss originated when the first male reptile licked the first female
reptile, implying in a subtle, complimentary way that she was as succulent
as the small reptile he had for dinner the night before."
- F. Scott Fitzgerald
Mark Ogilvie
andrew (MELBOURNE) <melb...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> wrote:
> Out of curiosity, because apparently this is still itching me, how many
> people who "solicit" for artists on USENET actually find quality
> artists? The ratio of writers posting to artists seems to be skewed
> heavilly towards writers. Are there lots of artists who lurk, looking
> for writers to ask for their help?
There are a few, but let's face it the internet is a scary place to
begin with, you have to be pretty sure of yourself and your work to
post.
Mark
--
Visit the Comic Book Writer/Artist Connection
Bradly E. Peterson
melb...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu (andrew (MELBOURNE)) done said this
here deal:
>Out of curiosity, because apparently this is still itching me, how many
>people who "solicit" for artists on USENET actually find quality
>artists? The ratio of writers posting to artists seems to be skewed
>heavilly towards writers. Are there lots of artists who lurk, looking
>for writers to ask for their help?
I tried to get an artist for three years via usenet, conventions,
talking to people, phone calls, e-mail and the like. I didn't
find what I was looking for. I eventually stopped looking and
started painting. heh...
>Also, I have sunk to a new low. I will also eat Editors, Assistant
>Editors and Vice-Presidents in charge of Marketing and Distribution.
No mean on those... Mostly fat and gristle. heh...
Bradly E. Peterson, Psychodrama Press
(Remove OMELETTEDUFROMAGE from address to reply)
<http://www.fastlane.net/homepages/drama>
"Patrick Daniel O'Neill is Gareb Shamus's love monkey"
Kevin J. Maroney
Todd VerBeek, gwm
My pal andrew (MELBOURNE) said:
>Out of curiosity, because apparently this is still itching me, how many
>people who "solicit" for artists on USENET actually find quality
>artists? The ratio of writers posting to artists seems to be skewed
>heavilly towards writers. Are there lots of artists who lurk, looking
>for writers to ask for their help?
I wonder this a bit myself. On on hand, I figure these writers aren't
scraping the bottom of the barrel, because they haven't ended up taking to
=me= yet. Or have I somehow managed to leapfrog into the realm of "too
proud to respond to online solicitations"?
Seriously, I have considered responding to Writer Seeking Artist posts,
but I'm generally more interested in getting down to working on something
of my own, when/if I can make the time. And paying the bills has to come
first.
Cheers, Todd
--
"...It was the year everything changed."
Bradly E. Peterson
ver...@bigfoot.com (Todd VerBeek, gwm) done said this here deal:
>My pal andrew (MELBOURNE) said:
RAC DRINK! Glurgle!
Todd Said:
>I wonder this a bit myself. On on hand, I figure these writers aren't
>scraping the bottom of the barrel, because they haven't ended up taking to
>=me= yet.
Hey! I asked you.
>Seriously, I have considered responding to Writer Seeking Artist posts,
>but I'm generally more interested in getting down to working on something
>of my own, when/if I can make the time. And paying the bills has to come
>first.
Yep. S'what you told me then. heh... Say, I really don't
remember whether I got to see your stuff or not. Is there an URL
I can get to to see some of your stuff?
sirstefan
still looking for an artist Bradly? I'm very bored......
Stefan
Bradly E. Peterson <dr...@OMELETTEDUFROMAGEfastlane.net> wrote in article
<6isccc$l...@news.cybernews.net>...
Todd VerBeek, gwm
> ver...@bigfoot.com (Todd VerBeek, gwm) done said this here deal:
> >My pal andrew (MELBOURNE) said:
My adverbial pal Bradly E. Peterson said:
> RAC DRINK! Glurgle!
Um, you're just going to dissolve your liver if you do that every time I
post something. {smile}
> Todd Said:
> >I wonder this a bit myself. On on hand, I figure these writers aren't
> >scraping the bottom of the barrel, because they haven't ended up taking to
> >=me= yet.
> Hey! I asked you.
Sorry... I'd forgotten about that.
Anyway, I guess that makes you a barrel-scraper, then. {shrug}
> >Seriously, I have considered responding to Writer Seeking Artist posts,
> >but I'm generally more interested in getting down to working on something
> >of my own, when/if I can make the time. And paying the bills has to come
> >first.
> Yep. S'what you told me then.
Well, at least I've kept my story consistent. {smile}
> heh... Say, I really don't
> remember whether I got to see your stuff or not. Is there an URL
> I can get to to see some of your stuff?
Sort of.
Last year someone in r.a.c.dc.lsh said, "I'd like to see that!" when I
said that Brainiac 5 would need to conduct an =experiment= to determine
his sexual orientation. So I spent the next several hours cranking out a
one-page story, with two endings: one PG13, the other NC17. It was a rush
job, and my first attempt at scanning and computer-coloring my own art, so
it's not anything I'd be putting in my portfolio. But you can see it at:
<http://www.simplecom.net/verbeek/art/Brainiac5.html>
I also have some pencil drawings on my web site. One is a school project,
a trompe l'oeil still-life about my boyfriend Andy. I put a scan of it on
my web server for one of my friends to look at, but it won't be there
indefinitely: <http://www.simplecom.net/verbeek/art/trompe.jpg>.
The other drawings you can get at are a series of semi-naked and naked
male figures. They're protected by Adult Check, since I don't want to
risk a "harmful to minors" conviction. If you don't have an AC ID, you
can sign up for one at my site: <http://www.simplecom.net/verbeek/smut/>.
Dave A. Law
While perhaps some writers do use artists simply to have something to
"show" publishers this only applies for work-for-hire positions.
Those of us writers with creator-owned projects are looking to work
with artists on a long term basis. Personally, I detest when an
artist commits to a project only to back out later for whatever
reason. Any professional writer depends on having a good working
relationship with the artists he/she works with.
- Dave A. Law
>m...@star.net (Mark Ogilvie) wrote:
>>andrew (MELBOURNE) <melb...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> wrote:
>>
> Most writers soliciting for artists, both here and on many web pages,
>are simply looking for a short cut in the submissions line. It's no secret
>that editors are more interested in looking at finished pages than reading
>mere plot synopses. The soliciting writer isn't usually interested in any
>real commitment to a collaboration with the respondent artist, but rather wish
>to use said artist to win brownie points with editors of established
>companies.
>
> This has been my experience, anyway.
>
>--
>W. Allen Montgomery
>
-----------------------
Creating Comics
- The resource source of links for comic writers, artists, and self-publishers
http://www.cadvision.com/dega/creating.htm
Bradly E. Peterson
"sirstefan" <sirs...@megsinet.net> done said this here deal:
>still looking for an artist Bradly? I'm very bored......
Could be. You got any meat on ya? OH! You meant to work with
and not eat? Nah. heh...
I'm not against it at this point, but I'm not actively looking.
I decided to paint my own stuff myself. You got an URL where
your artwork is?
Bradly E. Peterson
ver...@bigfoot.com (Todd VerBeek, gwm) done said this here deal:
>> ver...@bigfoot.com (Todd VerBeek, gwm) done said this here deal:
>> >My pal andrew (MELBOURNE) said:
>My adverbial pal Bradly E. Peterson said:
>> RAC DRINK! Glurgle!
HEY! That's TWO, count 'em TWO RAC DRINKSHS!!! WHEE! THUMP!
(falls off chair)
>Um, you're just going to dissolve your liver if you do that every time I
>post something. {smile}
HIC!
>Last year someone in r.a.c.dc.lsh said, "I'd like to see that!" when I
>said that Brainiac 5 would need to conduct an =experiment= to determine
>his sexual orientation.
Ok, I remember. It wasn't too bad.
>I also have some pencil drawings on my web site. One is a school project,
>a trompe l'oeil still-life about my boyfriend Andy. I put a scan of it on
>my web server for one of my friends to look at, but it won't be there
>indefinitely: <http://www.simplecom.net/verbeek/art/trompe.jpg>.
I just czeched it out. Nice work. Liked it better than the
quickie Brainiac piece.
>The other drawings you can get at are a series of semi-naked and naked
>male figures. They're protected by Adult Check, since I don't want to
>risk a "harmful to minors" conviction. If you don't have an AC ID, you
>can sign up for one at my site: <http://www.simplecom.net/verbeek/smut/>.
That sucks. My Adult Check ID ran out at the start of this
month, and I haven't renewed it. I'm 33, dude. Honest. Lemme
see those ones too. I wanna test Elayne's "package" theory
again. heh...
Tom127
In article <6it5r8$7...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>,
Crapped.I...@uncleSPAM.gov (WAMbo) wrote:
>m...@star.net (Mark Ogilvie) wrote:
>>andrew (MELBOURNE) <melb...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Out of curiosity, because apparently this is still itching me, how many
>>> people who "solicit" for artists on USENET actually find quality
>>> artists? The ratio of writers posting to artists seems to be skewed
>>> heavilly towards writers. Are there lots of artists who lurk, looking
>>> for writers to ask for their help?
>>
>> There are a few, but let's face it the internet is a scary place to
>>begin with, you have to be pretty sure of yourself and your work to
>>post.
>
> Most writers soliciting for artists, both here and on many web pages,
>are simply looking for a short cut in the submissions line. It's no secret
>that editors are more interested in looking at finished pages than reading
>mere plot synopses. The soliciting writer isn't usually interested in any
>real commitment to a collaboration with the respondent artist, but rather wish
>to use said artist to win brownie points with editors of established
>companies.
>
> This has been my experience, anyway.
I actually got a nice little gig doing some ilustrations for an RPG manual
via "alt.illustration"
--
---Tom Vincent
The gallery is now open.
http://www.capital.net/~tom127/index.html
Reekdog
In article <6iq8cq$5dp$3...@netnews.upenn.edu>,
melb...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu (andrew (MELBOURNE)) wrote:
>
> Out of curiosity, because apparently this is still itching me, how many
> people who "solicit" for artists on USENET actually find quality
> artists? The ratio of writers posting to artists seems to be skewed
> heavilly towards writers. Are there lots of artists who lurk, looking
> for writers to ask for their help?
On the other hand, how many "semi-decent" artists get bombarded with e-mails
from hack writers lurking out there? I have actually been aproached to do a
"witchblade type story" (exact quote), and been asked to draw from just like
Marc Silvestri all the way to Glenn Fabry.
I see plenty of writers looking for work, but the quality is just as slim as
many of the artists out here. What makes all these 17 year old kids think
that it just takes a few boob shots and a sword to tell a story?
And besides, if any of us were really any good, we wouldnt be pimping
ourselves out on the internet..... -Reek Get at me Dog!
http://www.angelfire.com/wa/Reekdog
"Changed my name like Prince... punks
be tremblin'... my name ain't Erech
no more... got that ReekDog emblem!"
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Reekdog
sirstefan
Bradly E. Peterson <dr...@OMELETTEDUFROMAGEfastlane.net> wrote in article
> "sirstefan" <sirs...@megsinet.net> done said this here deal:
>
> >still looking for an artist Bradly? I'm very bored......
>
> Could be. You got any meat on ya? OH! You meant to work with
> and not eat? Nah. heh...
>
> I'm not against it at this point, but I'm not actively looking.
> I decided to paint my own stuff myself. You got an URL where
> your artwork is?
>
nope....
Stefan
Tom127
In article <35562f13...@news.newsguy.com>, ver...@bigfoot.com (Todd
VerBeek, gwm) wrote:
>I also have some pencil drawings on my web site. One is a school project,
>a trompe l'oeil still-life about my boyfriend Andy. I put a scan of it on
>my web server for one of my friends to look at, but it won't be there
>indefinitely: <http://www.simplecom.net/verbeek/art/trompe.jpg>.
Todd, this drawing is very nice. Have you ever considered working on
coquille board? I think you could do really nice things with it.
Mark Ogilvie
WAMbo <Crapped.I...@uncleSPAM.gov> wrote:
> m...@star.net (Mark Ogilvie) wrote:
> >andrew (MELBOURNE) <melb...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> Out of curiosity, because apparently this is still itching me, how many
> >> people who "solicit" for artists on USENET actually find quality
> >> artists? The ratio of writers posting to artists seems to be skewed
> >> heavilly towards writers. Are there lots of artists who lurk, looking
> >> for writers to ask for their help?
> >
> > There are a few, but let's face it the internet is a scary place to
> >begin with, you have to be pretty sure of yourself and your work to
> >post.
>
> Most writers soliciting for artists, both here and on many web pages,
> are simply looking for a short cut in the submissions line. It's no secret
> that editors are more interested in looking at finished pages than reading
> mere plot synopses. The soliciting writer isn't usually interested in any
> real commitment to a collaboration with the respondent artist, but rather wish
> to use said artist to win brownie points with editors of established
> companies.
>
> This has been my experience, anyway.
>
> --
> W. Allen Montgomery
Perhaps, everything, in the end, comes down to the individual. Once
commited can he/she stay commited to a project, sacrafice for it? In
the end the only way to know one way or another is to give a partnership
a chance.
Todd VerBeek, gwm
>ver...@bigfoot.com (Todd VerBeek, gwm) wrote:
>>I also have some pencil drawings on my web site. One is a school project,
>>a trompe l'oeil still-life about my boyfriend Andy. I put a scan of it on
>>my web server for one of my friends to look at, but it won't be there
>>indefinitely: <http://www.simplecom.net/verbeek/art/trompe.jpg>.
My pal Tom127 said:
>Todd, this drawing is very nice.
{blush}
Too bad my DDrawing II instructor didn't think so; he gave it a C+. But
he's basically a petty tyrant who can't tell the difference between a
college-level art course and an 8th-grade detention period. {mutter}
>Have you ever considered working on
>coquille board? I think you could do really nice things with it.
I've worked on an administrative affairs board, campus life board, bristol
board, poster board, and the occasional advisory board... never a coquille
board. It sounds vaguely immoral.
Cheers, Todd (somewhat bitter because he just got his final grade for
Drawing II in the mail)
yet another from the damon feed
In article <3568d2d6...@news.newsguy.com>,
ver...@bigfoot.com (Todd VerBeek, gwm) wrote:
>
> >ver...@bigfoot.com (Todd VerBeek, gwm) wrote:
> >>I also have some pencil drawings on my web site. One is a school project,
> >>a trompe l'oeil still-life about my boyfriend Andy. I put a scan of it on
> >>my web server for one of my friends to look at, but it won't be there
> >>indefinitely: <http://www.simplecom.net/verbeek/art/trompe.jpg>.
>
> My pal Tom127 said:
> >Todd, this drawing is very nice.
>
> {blush}
>
> Too bad my DDrawing II instructor didn't think so; he gave it a C+. But
> he's basically a petty tyrant who can't tell the difference between a
> college-level art course and an 8th-grade detention period. {mutter}
i can see why.
i thought there was a certain stiffnes to it that upset me.
it was in a coupla the pencils you have in your gateway smut
page too.
tho, i also think there's a warmth to it, and like the art myslef.
i'd've given itmaybe a b or b+.
better than my stuff byfar, tho.
> >Have you ever considered working on
> >coquille board? I think you could do really nice things with it.
tom, you are perverted.
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
Reekdog (lau...@foxinternet.net) wrote:
: I see plenty of writers looking for work, but the quality is just as slim as
: many of the artists out here. What makes all these 17 year old kids think
: that it just takes a few boob shots and a sword to tell a story?
Um, 'cause that's what's selling? :)
- Elayne
--
"I'm now going to smear clue musk on you and stand you in a field of horny
clues in the middle of clue mating season. I think it's the only way you
could ever possibly *get* A Clue."
- Leah Adezio
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
WAMbo (Crapped.I...@uncleSPAM.gov) wrote:
: m...@star.net (Mark Ogilvie) wrote:
: >andrew (MELBOURNE) <melb...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> wrote:
: >
: >> Out of curiosity, because apparently this is still itching me, how many
: >> people who "solicit" for artists on USENET actually find quality
: >> artists? The ratio of writers posting to artists seems to be skewed
: >> heavilly towards writers. Are there lots of artists who lurk, looking
: >> for writers to ask for their help?
: >
: > There are a few, but let's face it the internet is a scary place to
: >begin with, you have to be pretty sure of yourself and your work to
: >post.
: Most writers soliciting for artists, both here and on many web pages,
: are simply looking for a short cut in the submissions line. It's no secret
: that editors are more interested in looking at finished pages than reading
: mere plot synopses. The soliciting writer isn't usually interested in any
: real commitment to a collaboration with the respondent artist, but rather wish
: to use said artist to win brownie points with editors of established
: companies.
: This has been my experience, anyway.
I dunno, I think it's both. Just as people certainly employ the Internet
as a tool to meet new friends and start new relationships, so it makes
sense to utilize rac* as a place to find possible collaborators. I
wouldn't characterize EVERY writer looking for an artist as someone just
wanting to fast-track themselves into an editor's desk. I think the need
for a collaborative fit is certainly recognized.
- Elayne (has thrown a few collaborative fits herself)
yet another from the damon feed
In article <355ca944...@news.cris.com>,
uec...@cris.com (B. P. Uecker) wrote:
>
> yet another from the damon feed wrote:
>
> >In article <3568d2d6...@news.newsguy.com>,
> > ver...@bigfoot.com (Todd VerBeek, gwm) wrote:
> >>
> >> >ver...@bigfoot.com (Todd VerBeek, gwm) wrote:
> >> >>I also have some pencil drawings on my web site. One is a school
project,
> >> >>a trompe l'oeil still-life about my boyfriend Andy. I put a scan of it
on
> >> >>my web server for one of my friends to look at, but it won't be there
> >> >>indefinitely: <http://www.simplecom.net/verbeek/art/trompe.jpg>.
> >>
> >> My pal Tom127 said:
> >> >Todd, this drawing is very nice.
> >>
> >> {blush}
> >>
> >> Too bad my DDrawing II instructor didn't think so; he gave it a C+. But
> >> he's basically a petty tyrant who can't tell the difference between a
> >> college-level art course and an 8th-grade detention period. {mutter}
> >
> >i can see why.
> >
> >i thought there was a certain stiffnes to it that upset me.
> >it was in a coupla the pencils you have in your gateway smut
> >page too.
>
> line--and the shading is primitive.
i don't think so. i'd call it competent more than anything else.
As a still-life exercise I would
> say, "about average". A C+ is an unsurprising grade. It is the sort of
> thing that hundreds of thousands of other drawing students are perfectly
> capable of.
i don't knwo about that.
his samples beat most of what's on the web that i've seen.
> >tho, i also think there's a warmth to it, and like the art myslef.
>
> I feel it lacks warmth, rather it has sentiment--not the same thing, and
> some sentiment is very cold.
no, the one page maybe, but some of the other body shots
are more naturalistic, and warm that way.
> >i'd've given itmaybe a b or b+.
> >
> >better than my stuff byfar, tho.
>
> That is because you suck.
>
stop propositioning me.
sirstefan
Do Friends of Lulu support that crap? What do they support? Anything done
by a woman and Archie comics? I never hear anything about them.
E-mail me with an answer so this newsgroup doesnt get flooded with the
subject.
Thanx
Stefan
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput <fire...@panix.com> wrote in article
<6j734a$2...@panix3.panix.com>...
sirstefan
I may not be the best artist or writer, but some of these peoples work i
see on the net is horrid. I dont even respond to them anymore....i hate
hurting peoples feelings...it makes me feel bad for them. I hate being
brutally honest.
Anyway....i have had a few writers send me scripts to maybe get some minis
done, but their stories were lame, boring, ignorant of storytelling, or
just downright predictable. I think people trying to break into the
industry need to learn humility....quit thinking your the best. Quit taking
cliche stories and trying to sell them as masterpieces. Get influences
outside of mainstream comics, find out what you like about them, and use
that in your work.
I guess i should end this spewing of words...my fingers hurt.
Stefan
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
sirstefan (sirs...@megsinet.net) wrote:
: Elayne Wechsler-Chaput <fire...@panix.com> wrote in article
: <6j734a$2...@panix3.panix.com>...
: > Reekdog (lau...@foxinternet.net) wrote:
: >
: > : I see plenty of writers looking for work, but the quality is just as
: slim as
: > : many of the artists out here. What makes all these 17 year old kids
: think
: > : that it just takes a few boob shots and a sword to tell a story?
: >
: > Um, 'cause that's what's selling? :)
: Do Friends of Lulu support that crap?
Friends of Lulu as an organization doesn't take a specific stand against
any comics; that's not the point of the group. Individual FoL members
have very strong opinions about some comics, though, as do individual
Usenet posters.
: What do they support? Anything done by a woman and Archie comics?
Anything that contributes to the increased participation of women and
girls in comics, as readers and creators. This certainly includes comics
done by women, 'cause duh, that's women participating as creators. :) It
probably also includes most Archie stuff, which is very girl-friendly. It
includes lots of comics!
: I never hear anything about them.
Hie thee over to our spiffy website at www.friends-lulu.org then!
: E-mail me with an answer so this newsgroup doesnt get flooded with the
: subject.
Oh, Stefan, believe me, I *want* this newsgroup to get flooded with the
subject of Friends of Lulu! I agree with you, FoL needs a greater online
presence. With the amount of work we've done within the comics industry,
we should be way past the point where people don't know what we're all
about, so it never hurts to talk the organization up!
Anyone living in the NYC area who wants to check out one of our local
meetings is welcome to come on by Jim Hanley's Universe this coming
Wednesday (comics day!). Go to the back, then up the stairs. Our meeting
starts at 7pm. Free soft drinks, woo hoo! :)
- Elayne
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
sirstefan (sirs...@megsinet.net) wrote:
: Elayne Wechsler-Chaput <fire...@panix.com> wrote in article
: > as a tool to meet new friends and start new relationships, so it makes
: > sense to utilize rac* as a place to find possible collaborators. I
: > wouldn't characterize EVERY writer looking for an artist as someone just
: > wanting to fast-track themselves into an editor's desk. I think the need
: > for a collaborative fit is certainly recognized.
: I may not be the best artist or writer, but some of these peoples work i
: see on the net is horrid.
Well, sure, but you could say that about people whose work you see in
person as well. Sturgeon's Law, after all, 90% of anything is crap.
: I dont even respond to them anymore....i hate
: hurting peoples feelings...it makes me feel bad for them. I hate being
: brutally honest.
So be tactfully honest. These people aren't going to improve unless they
have people to communicate to them and tell it like it is. Be specific
and be constructive. That's how folks learn. No need for brutality.
: Anyway....i have had a few writers send me scripts to maybe get some minis
: done, but their stories were lame, boring, ignorant of storytelling, or
: just downright predictable. I think people trying to break into the
: industry need to learn humility....quit thinking your the best. Quit taking
: cliche stories and trying to sell them as masterpieces. Get influences
: outside of mainstream comics, find out what you like about them, and use
: that in your work.
Good advice. Write what you know, and use life rather than comics as your
influence. Also, a few life-drawing classes never hurt. :)
PJW
"sirstefan" <sirs...@megsinet.net>
>
> Anyway....i have had a few writers send me scripts to maybe get some minis
> done, but their stories were lame, boring, ignorant of storytelling, or
> just downright predictable. I think people trying to break into the
> industry need to learn humility....quit thinking your the best. Quit taking
> cliche stories and trying to sell them as masterpieces. Get influences
> outside of mainstream comics, find out what you like about them, and use
> that in your work.
"lame, boring, igorant of storytelling...predictable"
"cliche stories..[sold as] masterpieces"
"[lack of] influences outside of mainstream comics"
Sounds to me like they'd fit right in.
sirstefan
> sirstefan (sirs...@megsinet.net) wrote:
> : Elayne Wechsler-Chaput <fire...@panix.com> wrote in article
Thanx for the info.
I know that the FoL will be at the Motor City Con this weekend. Maybe if i
have time i'll stop at the booth. Why dont more ladies read comics? Maybe
its the art in the mainstream that people notice. Maybe the industry in
general should start promoting more indie and alternative books. It will
only do good for the industry as a whole....limitations on the general
publics perceptions of it and all that.
Hmmm.....rambling on and not making sense...must stop writing...need
caffeine....and no....i dont think i am Swamp Thing even tho i write like
this...but maybe i am...who knows.
Stefan
sirstefan
PJW <gre...@southwind.net> wrote in article
<6j7aaf$go3$1...@opal.southwind.net>...
heh....what was i thinking? :)
Stefan
sirstefan
> sirstefan (sirs...@megsinet.net) wrote:
> : Elayne Wechsler-Chaput <fire...@panix.com> wrote in article
> : I may not be the best artist or writer, but some of these peoples work
i
> : see on the net is horrid.
>
> Well, sure, but you could say that about people whose work you see in
> person as well. Sturgeon's Law, after all, 90% of anything is crap.
>
True....but i'm a homebody. That reminds me....at comic-cons, if i see
people carrying around a portfolio and ask to see thier work, they all have
the same response "Have you ever been published?" Like that matters. I
would be happy to show my work off to people. I know my faults and my
strengths. Get as many peoples opinions as possible. Take a minute out of
your con schedule and show i to a complete stranger. It cant hurt....just
remember to take all advise with a grain of salt......geez...why do i feel
like an editor?
> : I dont even respond to them anymore....i hate
> : hurting peoples feelings...it makes me feel bad for them. I hate being
> : brutally honest.
>
> So be tactfully honest. These people aren't going to improve unless they
> have people to communicate to them and tell it like it is. Be specific
> and be constructive. That's how folks learn. No need for brutality.
I try.....but i still think i sound like an asshole. Maybe brutally wasnt
the word i wanted. I dont come right out and say a person sucks. It just
seems like that when i start listing stuff i think they need help with. You
wouldnt believe how many artists draw characters about 2 heads too
high....many of them are "pros".
On a side note....i never comment when i see bastardized manga art. I dont
like it, and i can not give a fair critique.
Stefan
ps....i do speak English as my main (and only)language. I just talk funny :)
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
sirstefan (sirs...@megsinet.net) wrote:
: Thanx for the info.
Hey, it beats being needlessly insulted by Tony Isabella. :)
: I know that the FoL will be at the Motor City Con this weekend. Maybe if i
: have time i'll stop at the booth.
Please do. I have no idea who's working it there, but I think Kim Garvin
should be around. I'll be at the booth in North Carolina for Heroes Con,
and probably in San Diego for an hour or two.
: Why dont more ladies read comics?
Ah, if we could only answer that... :) Probably a combination of sucky
marketing ("women don't read comics, let's not make any for them or tell
them about the stuff!") and comics' general rep ("guys in tights beating
each other up") among the non-comics-reading public.
: Maybe
: its the art in the mainstream that people notice. Maybe the industry in
: general should start promoting more indie and alternative books. It will
: only do good for the industry as a whole....limitations on the general
: publics perceptions of it and all that.
Easier said than done. Hard to promote stuff that's been "proven" not to
sell. (Of course, many comics retailers are quite opposed to the very
IDEA of women and kids coming into their stores...)
WindyTWise
>: Why dont more ladies read comics?
>
>Ah, if we could only answer that... :) Probably a combination of sucky
>marketing ("women don't read comics, let's not make any for them or tell
>them about the stuff!") and comics' general rep ("guys in tights beating
>each other up") among the non-comics-reading public.
I have learned an extraordinary amount about women and their literary buying
habits since signing on as slave here at Mistress Inc., and one of them is that
women love words.
Oh. By the way, the Harlequin numbers are out for all books published by Harl
between July and Dec, and for those that are clueless, women didn't buy too
many romance books in the month following Princess Diana's death. The numbers
for books are not public, but the info loop between authors lets folks know
what approx. is going on.
Women (in general) buy based on emotions. They want to feel good - about
themselves, and others.
I think some romance comics could prolly be done with the auspices of a romance
publisher, such as Harlequin or Kensington, or even(but I doubt) Avon, but I
doubt seriously if they would be marketed in the same format. More than
likely, it'd be only partially graphic, and mostly storied.
It seems that the sales for a lot of the Goosebumps/Bonechillers as well as the
Babysitter Club/Sweet Valley High books are leveling off, or even dropping off.
These publishers as well are prolly going to be looking for a new type of
sales pitch. The Goosebumps/Babysitter Club stuff is almost all work-for-hire,
so it's apparent that the highest caliber of talent won't be making any large
effort to start something up, but the potential is always there.
yeah, I think there's a (graphical book) market with women, but with the
romance books, there is a level of entertainment that is different than for
males.
Men are satisfied if their entertainment is brief, as long as it is intense.
Women, on the other hand, want their entertainment to go on...and on.. and
on...
So, some of the book might be told with art, but I think you'd have to give
more of the material that makes a decent romance book decent in order to
attract the female readers.
And, you'd have to market it differently.
For example, I don't think the Babysitter's Club books would work with an all
graphics format.
It could be in a digest format, ala Disney Adventures.
(The Harls are sold in Germany in a digest style format)
So, it would be a hard sell, but it could be done.
If say, Terry Moore were to come up with something, I could see him doing the
art for already made and edited stories...
But I don't think the money would be good enough for Mr. Moore. But that style
would be nice. About 20 or 35 images per book. The pay would end up being
about 25-75 bucks an image depending on the actual format, but that's middle to
high end, and about 7-18 bucks per image at the low end.
Ah well.
Walt "Ideas? I'm just full of it!" Stone
**
That wacky chart is updated.
The chart graphically shows the cumulative sales over time, broken down by
sales rank in the comic book biz, with numbers provided by Diamond.
<URL:http://members.aol.com/windytwise/sales.htm>
Lawrence Watt-Evans
On 11 May 1998 20:57:53 GMT, windy...@aol.com (WindyTWise) wrote:
>It seems that the sales for a lot of the Goosebumps/Bonechillers as well as the
>Babysitter Club/Sweet Valley High books are leveling off, or even dropping off.
You're behind the times; sales on Goosebumps have dropped hugely since
the 1996 peak. The fad has passed.
> These publishers as well are prolly going to be looking for a new type of
>sales pitch. The Goosebumps/Babysitter Club stuff is almost all work-for-hire,
>so it's apparent that the highest caliber of talent won't be making any large
>effort to start something up, but the potential is always there.
The current hot series for that age group is Animorphs. Which would
be a natural for comics.
--
The Misenchanted Page: http://www.sff.net/people/LWE/ Last update 4/24/98
WindyTWise
>>Babysitter Club/Sweet Valley High books are leveling off, or even dropping
>off.
>
>You're behind the times; sales on Goosebumps have dropped hugely since
>the 1996 peak. The fad has passed.
My apologies for my couching of words. I was aware of the trend, but not the
timing of the sales peaks for individual titles/lines.
.>> These publishers as well are prolly going to be looking for a new type of
>>sales pitch.
>The current hot series for that age group is Animorphs. Which would
>be a natural for comics.
My kid keeps me appraised of the trend in that area. He has all of the
Animorphs. I don't know of the sales trends in the Animorphs, though.
Walt "watch for animorphing in the first few minutes of "Fear and Loathing in
Las Vegas""Stone
espi...@cgl.ucsf.edu
fire...@panix.com (Elayne Wechsler-Chaput) wrote:
Re: Women and comics
> Ah, if we could only answer that... :) Probably a combination of sucky
> marketing ("women don't read comics, let's not make any for them or tell
> them about the stuff!") and comics' general rep ("guys in tights beating
> each other up") among the non-comics-reading public.
The latter is the excuse I usually hear from my female friends and
collegues. At that point I reach for my copies of Maison Ikkoku which (so
far) have a 40% success rate among women for getting them to buy. 100%
success for hooking them on the story after reading the first Viz book, but
the price is a bit steep for graduate students. n=5 (but I admit I also pre-
select my victims...uh...audience for romantics). I have high hopes for
the other 60% in the future.
-Hernan, the books work, but people need to know about them
Lawrence Watt-Evans
On 11 May 1998 22:09:44 GMT, windy...@aol.com (WindyTWise) wrote:
>>>Babysitter Club/Sweet Valley High books are leveling off, or even dropping
>>off.
>>
>>You're behind the times; sales on Goosebumps have dropped hugely since
>>the 1996 peak. The fad has passed.
>
>My apologies for my couching of words. I was aware of the trend, but not the
>timing of the sales peaks for individual titles/lines.
Yeah, I don't know the timing on the others, but I do know Goosebumps
-- I've been following the numbers in Publishers Weekly.
>>The current hot series for that age group is Animorphs. Which would
>>be a natural for comics.
>
>My kid keeps me appraised of the trend in that area. He has all of the
>Animorphs. I don't know of the sales trends in the Animorphs, though.
So far, still going up.
Lea Hernandez/Mark Hernandez
espi...@cgl.ucsf.edu wrote:
>
> fire...@panix.com (Elayne Wechsler-Chaput) wrote:
>
> Re: Women and comics
> > Ah, if we could only answer that... :) Probably a combination of sucky
> > marketing ("women don't read comics, let's not make any for them or tell
> > them about the stuff!") and comics' general rep ("guys in tights beating
> > each other up") among the non-comics-reading public.
>
> The latter is the excuse I usually hear from my female friends and
> collegues. At that point I reach for my copies of Maison Ikkoku which (so
> far) have a 40% success rate among women for getting them to buy. 100%
> success for hooking them on the story after reading the first Viz book, but
> the price is a bit steep for graduate students. n=5 (but I admit I also pre-
> select my victims...uh...audience for romantics). I have high hopes for
> the other 60% in the future.
Good for you, Hernan! You might also try my book, CATHEDRAL CHILD. As I
re-
cently said in response to the statement in CBEM, "nobody wants to grow
up
to be the greatest romance comics artist"...*I* do.
And if your vic--I mean audience aren't having trouble reading MI, can
follow
the cast, and like the romance, they'll probably like CC, too.
And this is not just about self-service. I really want people who like
romance
and like comics to have something to read. I really want to do something
for
comics that is not just more of the same.
Lea
CATHEDRAL CHILD--Image Comics
http://www.cris.com/~akiyama
David Crowe
: Re: Women and comics
: > Ah, if we could only answer that... :) Probably a combination of sucky
: > marketing ("women don't read comics, let's not make any for them or tell
: > them about the stuff!") and comics' general rep ("guys in tights beating
: > each other up") among the non-comics-reading public.
: The latter is the excuse I usually hear from my female friends and
: collegues. At that point I reach for my copies of Maison Ikkoku which (so
: far) have a 40% success rate among women for getting them to buy. 100%
: success for hooking them on the story after reading the first Viz book, but
: the price is a bit steep for graduate students. n=5 (but I admit I also pre-
: select my victims...uh...audience for romantics). I have high hopes for
: the other 60% in the future.
Someone should try putting comics in teen girl's magazines, like Sassy or
the Non-Threatening Boys zines. I don't know if MI would be the best
choice, but there are plenty of manga that would appeal to girls.
Elfquest could too. The trick would be to get female readers hooked
before they can be corrupted by society's lowbrow opinion of comics.
--
David "No Nickname" Crowe http://www.primenet.com/~jetman UPDATED!
I'm willing to suspend my disbelief, but not hang it by the neck until dead.
-Richard Sheaves-Bein
sirstefan
> sirstefan (sirs...@megsinet.net) wrote:
>
> : Thanx for the info.
>
> Hey, it beats being needlessly insulted by Tony Isabella. :)
>
I read that. Who should i root for when the steel cage match happens? :)
> : I know that the FoL will be at the Motor City Con this weekend. Maybe
if i
> : have time i'll stop at the booth.
>
> Please do. I have no idea who's working it there, but I think Kim Garvin
> should be around. I'll be at the booth in North Carolina for Heroes Con,
> and probably in San Diego for an hour or two.
Damn....25 bucks for membership. I'm not rich ya know. Its hard enough
buying comics i like to read....i cant even buy all the ones i want to.
Maybe when i get the cash i'll join....it'll help pick up chicks (joking
joking) :)
What about the Mid-OH Con this year? Will you be there?
>
> : Maybe
> : its the art in the mainstream that people notice. Maybe the industry in
> : general should start promoting more indie and alternative books. It
will
> : only do good for the industry as a whole....limitations on the general
> : publics perceptions of it and all that.
>
> Easier said than done. Hard to promote stuff that's been "proven" not to
> sell. (Of course, many comics retailers are quite opposed to the very
> IDEA of women and kids coming into their stores...)
>
Not true. They may not break sales records, but they have their
audience(some anyway). Titles like Jinx, Kabuki, Theives and Kings,
Eightball, and Optic Nerve(just to name a few) show that there is an
audience for alternative titles. Retailers can at least make an attempt to
sell more of these titles...maybe by putting them in the front window? And
the DC Comics/Cartoon Network free comics deal is a great idea to bring in
more kids (and hopefully parents too)
Stefan
And on the eighth day God created me. No wonder He doesnt promote heavy
drinking.
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
sirstefan (sirs...@megsinet.net) wrote:
: Damn....25 bucks for membership. I'm not rich ya know. Its hard enough
: buying comics i like to read....i cant even buy all the ones i want to.
I know it's a bit steep for many people, but many professional/industry
organizations charge far more for membership. My membership in the New
York Bookbinders' Guild was around $40-50 a year.
: Maybe when i get the cash i'll join....it'll help pick up chicks (joking
: joking) :)
Hey, we use the same jokes at our booth. "Join Friends of Lulu, meet
chicks!" :)
: What about the Mid-OH Con this year? Will you be there?
We're hoping to! As Kim Garvin is our booth honcho, and Ohio is her home
territory, we're very psyched to be there! Moreover, I've had substantive
discussions with the Mid-Ohio programming folks, and chances are Lulu
might be quite involved in helping out with programming. The final
decision, however, is out of my hands; at the moment I'm just a local
peon, and this is a National Board consideration...
: > Hard to promote stuff that's been "proven" not to
: > sell. (Of course, many comics retailers are quite opposed to the very
: > IDEA of women and kids coming into their stores...)
: Not true.
I *wish* it weren't true, Stefan! But enough people have supplied
anecdotal evidence of retailers turning up their noses at the notion of
carrying comics for kids that, sadly, it's a fact. Far too many retailers
have no interest in expanding their business beyond their current
clientele. I think it's insane not to want to expand your customer base,
but maybe that's just me.
: They may not break sales records, but they have their
: audience(some anyway).
And potential audience. But they're not selling enough to the core
clientele of many shops for those shops to carry them. I can get any book
I want via pre-orders from my retailer, but she won't stock things like
AKIKO because it just sits on her shelves. And this is a retailer who
*encourages* kids to shop there!
Adeheathen
Having posted just such an invitation to collaborate on this board, I should
say that it must be hard to generalise here. If I'd wanted to find an artist, I
could've looked in many artist type places. (You know, coffee bars, landscape
viewing points, the cellars at DC Thomson) What crossed my mind was that I'd
get someone who was interested enough in the genre to know where I was coming
from.
I'd also seen posts from artists looking for writers.
So I kind of assumed that there would be some give and take.
For the record, I have no intention of working with anyone who doesn't want to
contribute to the story I had in mind, and I have even less intention of making
a living out of this - although perhaps anyone who wants to could still use the
story.
Still, it's a good idea to eat them, then perhaps I could inherit the drawing
skills like those worms that solve mazes ?
**************************************************************************
******************
confidence is a preference for the habitual voyeur
;:%:!8:-) [The Eyeball Kid]
Reekdog
In article <6j734a$2...@panix3.panix.com>,
fire...@panix.com (Elayne Wechsler-Chaput) wrote:
>
> Reekdog (lau...@foxinternet.net) wrote:
>
> : I see plenty of writers looking for work, but the quality is just as slim as
> : many of the artists out here. What makes all these 17 year old kids think
> : that it just takes a few boob shots and a sword to tell a story?
>
> Um, 'cause that's what's selling? :)
>
Yeah well, somebodies buyin that crap. Alot of this group as it would seem
support this nonsense, from this Fathom variant thread.
BTW, does the FoL support this stuff since it has a female character as the
lead? -Reek Get at me Dog "http://www.angelfire.com/wa/Reekdog"
Reekdog
Mr. ;:%:!8:-) [The Eyeball Kid] tapped away:
> Having posted just such an invitation to collaborate on this board, I should
> say that it must be hard to generalise here. If I'd wanted to find an artist, I
> could've looked in many artist type places. (You know, coffee bars, landscape
> viewing points, the cellars at DC Thomson)
Cute, you got that whole writers poser thing down pat......
> and I have even less intention of making
> a living out of this - although perhaps anyone who wants to could still use the
> story.
Then get the fuck out. I suppose you want to be a screenwriter or some other
nonsense right. Maybe a lawyer??
> Still, it's a good idea to eat them, then perhaps I could inherit the drawing
> skills like those worms that solve mazes ?
Or those pretentious ass writers who think they are so much better than the
general populace? -Reek Get at me Dog! "http://www.angelfire.com/wa/Reekdog"
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
Reekdog (lau...@foxinternet.net) wrote:
: BTW, does the FoL support this stuff since it has a female character as the
: lead?
In general, Friends of Lulu as an organization supports the increased
participation of women in comics as characters, but we tend to concentrate
more on the increased participation of women in comics as readers and
creators. As far as specific comics, we do put out recommended reading
lists; I have no idea what's on the current one, but I think there may be
a version up on our web page.
The Great and Powerful Danny Sichel
WindyTWise wrote:
> Men are satisfied if their entertainment is brief, as long as it is intense.
> Women, on the other hand, want their entertainment to go on...and on.. and on...
Must... resist... straight line...
Adeheathen
In article <6jbf81$pcg$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, Reekdog<lau...@foxinternet.net>
declares:
>Or those pretentious ass writers who think they are so much better than the
>general populace? -Reek Get at me Dog! "http://www.angelfire.com/wa/Reekdog"
>
>
>
I love you.
You seem to have a basic understanding of language.
**************************************************************************
******************
confidence is a preference for the habitual voyeur