Religion and X-Men

2 views
Skip to first unread message

Alan D. Earhart

unread,
Jul 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/21/98
to

Some of the recent discussion got me thinking about this once again.

When has religion been used as a plot device in an xbook?

I got to thinking about the UX-Men Dracula arc oh-so-long-ago in which, if
memory serves me, Kitty is able to have some power over Dracula using a
Jewish symbol. This being the power of belief and conviction has over the
undead.

I seem to remember something from the New Mutants but I can't put my
finger on it.

And, there was the Nightcrawler scene in the cartoon.

Others?

--
alan
aear...@chemistry.ohio-state.edu
Visit the FFWeb Project at-
<http://femtowatt-club.com/FF/>
Chris Claremont mailing list info-
<http://www.femtowatt-club.com/FF/Main/List/ccl.html>

Ed Hebert

unread,
Jul 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/21/98
to
Alan D. Earhart wrote:
>
> Some of the recent discussion got me thinking about this once again.
>
> When has religion been used as a plot device in an xbook?
>
> I got to thinking about the UX-Men Dracula arc oh-so-long-ago in which, if
> memory serves me, Kitty is able to have some power over Dracula using a
> Jewish symbol. This being the power of belief and conviction has over the
> undead.
>
> I seem to remember something from the New Mutants but I can't put my
> finger on it.
>
> And, there was the Nightcrawler scene in the cartoon.
>

There was a back-up story of Nightcrawler going to confessional around
the mid #70's of Excalibur. It's last moment was Nightcrawler looking
at the X's on the tie he was wearing and turning it to find a cross.

And then there was the 'cross to bear' thing between Maggott and
Wolverine in X-Men #75. I don't know if it counts as a religious theme,
for many men, during Roman times, had to carry the cross they were to be
crucified on. However, the story of Jesus' last moments would be the
most popular reference to get this metaphor from.

Ed Hebert

Harlaquin1

unread,
Jul 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/22/98
to
>And, there was the Nightcrawler scene in the cartoon.

Yes and also Nightcrawler was scene going to church way back in Uncanny meeting
with his priest, I beleive it was a discussion about the Beyonder and if a
being like that exists , how does God fit in. Anyway thats one thing I can
remember!!!!! I can't remember the issue number but I can look it up if ya
want, Also when Magneto and Kitty went to a Holocaust convention( I don't know
if thats religeon being used as a plot but they did discuss about being
Jewish), which of course is where the then newly formed Freedom Force attacked
and arrested Maggie .Allrighty seeya all later Craig

"I miss...... I need...... your laughter..." Storm missing Nightcrawler


tru...@rocketmail.com

unread,
Jul 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/22/98
to
In article <aearhart-210...@ts2-4.homenet.ohio-state.edu>,

aear...@chemistry.ohio-state.edu (Alan D. Earhart) wrote:
>
> Some of the recent discussion got me thinking about this once again.
>
> When has religion been used as a plot device in an xbook?
>

Well, there's the whole relationship between Rahne and her adoptive father,
who is a priest and believed she was possessed by evil.

Umm... Storm's faith in the 'Bright Lady' was religious enough for the Goddess
to accept her in the Infinity Crusade, but I'm not sure if that qualifies.

-- Wade (grasping at straws)

-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum

Freshie

unread,
Jul 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/22/98
to
On Tue, 21 Jul 1998 22:37:51 -0400, aear...@chemistry.ohio-state.edu
(Alan D. Earhart) wrote:

>
>Some of the recent discussion got me thinking about this once again.
>
>When has religion been used as a plot device in an xbook?

The recent Gambit LS by superstar-writer Howard Mackie. The villain
in the book is basically the devil. The plot revolves around a fallen
angel, and the theme indentifies heavily with redemption.

It was a good read.


paranoia: the choice of a tech generation
http://www.silly.com/~tang

Gfnoonan

unread,
Jul 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/22/98
to
>Well, there's the whole relationship between Rahne and her adoptive father,
>who is a priest and believed she was possessed by evil.
>

Actually, he's a reverend. Presbyterian?
Priests are either pagan, Catholic, or Orthodox. Ministers/Reverends are
usually
Protestant, though many Jesuits have 'Rev.' as
a title...

Kurt is a practicing Catholic; does Kitty practice
reformed Judaism? She seems pretty clearly
not orthodox or Hasidic :)

Greg

AGr3691541

unread,
Jul 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/22/98
to
In article <aearhart-210...@ts2-4.homenet.ohio-state.edu>,

aear...@chemistry.ohio-state.edu (Alan D. Earhart) writes:

>Some of the recent discussion got me thinking about this once again.
>
>When has religion been used as a plot device in an xbook?
>

>I got to thinking about the UX-Men Dracula arc oh-so-long-ago in which, if
>memory serves me, Kitty is able to have some power over Dracula using a
>Jewish symbol. This being the power of belief and conviction has over the
>undead.
>
>I seem to remember something from the New Mutants but I can't put my
>finger on it.
>

>And, there was the Nightcrawler scene in the cartoon.
>

>Others?

Well there's a really early annual where Nightcrawlers adopted mother tries to
get revenge on him, and ends up sending the x-men to Hell. There's a scene
where, looking at all the tortured souls Colossus points out that he is glad
that he is an athiest, he couldn't believe in any religion htat would sanction
such cruelty. Nightcrawler replies that there is an opposite Heaven and that
those in Hell deserve their fate.
Nightcrawler is discovered praying by Wolverine in the Brood storyline circa
160-something, and Wolverine is shocked, saying he can only believe what his
senses tell him.
Nightcrawler is later seen visiting a Catholic priest (who obviously knows him)
and fretting that meeting the Beyonder has caused him to question his fate. I
don't remember it ever being used in Excalibur...

Lazy Line Painter Al

Harlaquin1

unread,
Jul 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/22/98
to
>When has religion been used as a plot device in an xbook?
>
>The God loves, man Kills-saga?
></PRE></HTML>

YES that was probably the best X-Story ever
written!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Alan Lewis Sauer

unread,
Jul 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/22/98
to
Gfnoonan wrote:
: >Well, there's the whole relationship between Rahne and her adoptive father,

: >who is a priest and believed she was possessed by evil.
: >

: Actually, he's a reverend. Presbyterian?

Yes.

: Kurt is a practicing Catholic; does Kitty practice


: reformed Judaism? She seems pretty clearly
: not orthodox or Hasidic :)

I couldn't say about her practice; I'm fairly sure she believes.

------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan Sauer als...@bingen.cs.csbsju.edu
"But every artist and, in fact, every person knows, deeper than
conscious knowledge or speech can go, that beyond every reality
there is another one which controls it." --James Baldwin


Timothy Larson

unread,
Jul 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/22/98
to
In article <199807221746...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,

Gfnoonan <gfno...@aol.com> wrote:
>>Well, there's the whole relationship between Rahne and her adoptive father,
>>who is a priest and believed she was possessed by evil.
>Actually, he's a reverend. Presbyterian?
>Priests are either pagan, Catholic, or Orthodox. Ministers/Reverends are
>usually
>Protestant, though many Jesuits have 'Rev.' as
>a title...
>
>Kurt is a practicing Catholic; does Kitty practice
>reformed Judaism? She seems pretty clearly
>not orthodox or Hasidic :)

Actually, the correct term is "reform Judaism".

Tim
trivial pursuit whiz

David R. Henry

unread,
Jul 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/22/98
to
Harlaquin1 writes:

Certainly it was worth two less exclaimation points, though?

--
dhe...@plains.nodak.edu * Lion Clan Nezumi * Rogue Fan Club * Fallen Writer
Just Five Words for Jerry Bruckheimer: Why machineguns on NASA spacecraft?
What was the question? --Kate Bush /// All you of Earth are IDIOTS! --P9fOS

David R. Henry

unread,
Jul 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/22/98
to
Alan D. Earhart writes:

>Some of the recent discussion got me thinking about this once again.
>

>When has religion been used as a plot device in an xbook?

Plot device or plot component?

Nightcrawler had a major crisis of faith after meeting the Beyonder
that was quite well done. Technically, any story about Storm's
origin deals with religion, since she was an official goddess. God
Loves, Man Kills is a classic that goes without saying, so we shall.
The Brood story in the Marc Silvestri run had a rather sympathetic
religious character in it. Mojo is the effective god of his dimension,
but he's been handled so poorly by everyone except Nocenti that we
really don't want to remind people of him.

There was the rather good New Mutants issue that Claremont came out
of the blue and returned with, dealing with Amara and Hercules. While
I wince at the shoehorn that forced them into the mutant books,
Cloak & Dagger had a supporting character who was a priest who was
rather well-developed.

The issue-by-issue pants'-seat plotting by Lobdell didn't leave much
room for character development. Hopefully Seagle/Kelly will be able
to bring back some aspects of how religion interacts with the mutants
in their own titles now.

Danny Miller

unread,
Jul 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/22/98
to
In article <aearhart-210...@ts2-4.homenet.ohio-state.edu>,

aear...@chemistry.ohio-state.edu (Alan D. Earhart) wrote:

> Some of the recent discussion got me thinking about this once again.
>
> When has religion been used as a plot device in an xbook?

<snip>

> I seem to remember something from the New Mutants but I can't put my
> finger on it.

Maybe that one circa #72 where Hercules comes to "meet" Amara? :)

--
Reality's just a story that's taken on a life of its own. -- John
Constantine, _Hellblazer_ #120
Danny Miller
dami...@bu.edu

Ted Douglas

unread,
Jul 23, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/23/98
to
On Tue, 21 Jul 1998 22:37:51 -0400, aear...@chemistry.ohio-state.edu
(Alan D. Earhart) wrote:

>
>Some of the recent discussion got me thinking about this once again.
>
>When has religion been used as a plot device in an xbook?

The God loves, man Kills-saga?

tru...@my-dejanews.com

unread,
Jul 23, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/23/98
to
In article <199807221746...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,

gfno...@aol.com (Gfnoonan) wrote:
> >Well, there's the whole relationship between Rahne and her adoptive father,
> >who is a priest and believed she was possessed by evil.
> >
>
> Actually, he's a reverend. Presbyterian?
> Priests are either pagan, Catholic, or Orthodox. Ministers/Reverends are
> usually
> Protestant, though many Jesuits have 'Rev.' as
> a title...
>
D'oh! Never could keep any of that stuff straight...

-- Wade (put me down as "non-denominational Christian")

James S. Galinski

unread,
Jul 23, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/23/98
to

Danny Miller <dami...@bu.edu> wrote in article
<damiller-ya023180...@nntp.bu.edu>...
> In article <aearhart-210...@ts2-4.homenet.ohio-state.edu>,


> aear...@chemistry.ohio-state.edu (Alan D. Earhart) wrote:
>
> > Some of the recent discussion got me thinking about this once again.
> >
> > When has religion been used as a plot device in an xbook?
>

> <snip>
>
> > I seem to remember something from the New Mutants but I can't put my
> > finger on it.
>
> Maybe that one circa #72 where Hercules comes to "meet" Amara? :)

I haven't noticed if anyone's posted it yet, but how about Dani Moonstar
being forced to choose between her Native American heritage and her Valkrie
background. It's in a way religious, and it did cause her to leave the New
Mutants in issue 87, an issue that is usually remembered for something else
entirely... ;) (Incidentally, I believe the scene when she leaves was
edited out of the TPB, because it didn't pertain to Captain-Big-Gun. Shame
on Marvel!)

-James G.


Gfnoonan

unread,
Jul 23, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/23/98
to
>From: tru...@my-dejanews.com

>D'oh! Never could keep any of that stuff straight...

Well, it's pretty easy-- just try to remember
that the Christian religions which emphasize
the _substantial_ nature of the Eucharist
are priests.
I.E., if you think the bread and wine ARE Christ, rather than symbols of
Christ.
As for the pagans, hell, they gutted the
cow right up there on the altar. pretty substantial, I'd say :)

>-- Wade (put me down as "non-denominational Christian")

Sure, but if anyone's keeping track of that
stuff, He's not on this newsgroup :)

Slainte,
Greg


Alan D. Earhart

unread,
Jul 26, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/26/98
to
In article <damiller-ya023180...@nntp.bu.edu>,
dami...@bu.edu (Danny Miller) wrote:

> > I seem to remember something from the New Mutants but I can't put my
> > finger on it.
>
> Maybe that one circa #72 where Hercules comes to "meet" Amara? :)

Yep. That was the one. I see a few people remembered it!

Ya' know, I knew there were a few but I didn't realize just how many I had
forgotten.

Alan D. Earhart

unread,
Jul 26, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/26/98
to
In article <6p5jpt$f...@plains.NoDak.edu>, dhe...@plains.NoDak.edu (David
R. Henry) wrote:

> Alan D. Earhart writes:
>
> >Some of the recent discussion got me thinking about this once again.
> >
> >When has religion been used as a plot device in an xbook?
>

> Plot device or plot component?

Oops. I suppose that depends on the story and/or writer...

>
> Nightcrawler had a major crisis of faith after meeting the Beyonder
> that was quite well done.

I had forgotten that one, also. While I think Secret Wars I was fun but
not great and SW II was near-terrible, they sure did inspire some good
stuff in the other books. The FF with Byrne had some nice SW II fallout
and UX-Men had the Rachel/Beyonder/Mr. Slice-n-dice Wolvie story (to name
a few).

mrfixit

unread,
Jul 27, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/27/98
to

Alan D. Earhart wrote:

> Some of the recent discussion got me thinking about this once again.
>
> When has religion been used as a plot device in an xbook?
>

Magneto and shadowcat are both jewish and they both attended a holocaust
memorial (although not religious it did mention religion throughout the
issue)Nightcrawler also used a cross in the dracula issue to help defeat
dracula. He has also been seen in churches and praying. He is one of the
most religious x-men

> I got to thinking about the UX-Men Dracula arc oh-so-long-ago in which, if
> memory serves me, Kitty is able to have some power over Dracula using a
> Jewish symbol. This being the power of belief and conviction has over the
> undead.
>

> I seem to remember something from the New Mutants but I can't put my
> finger on it.

Wolfsbane is also known to be religious also Moonstar practices from what I
recall Native American religious rituals -mrfixit

>
>
> And, there was the Nightcrawler scene in the cartoon.
>
> Others?
>

Johan Lundstrom

unread,
Jul 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/28/98
to
Alan D. Earhart wrote:

>Danny Miller wrote:

>> Maybe that one circa #72 where Hercules comes to "meet" Amara? :)
>
>Yep. That was the one. I see a few people remembered it!

#81. Probably the best treatment of religion ever in an xbook.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Johan Lundstrom <jo...@algonet.se>

"If destiny is kind, we'll find some other way to continue the saga of
Sovereign Seven. There are too many stories left untold."
Sovereign Seven, last issue, last page.

Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages