Realism Drift
MH Clark
I read a lot of posts here about AOA and DOFP and how or if they
will come to pass.
I'm not an expert on these two story arcs but it seems unlikely to
me that either will happen.
Why?
Well there's is this tiny thing called reality that even X-Book
writers can't totally ignore.
It may seem like they can, but even writers can only go so far.
They can create aliens, super powers, nonsense science, magic, and a
million other things. One of the things they can't do is totally ignore
or contradict the reality that the reader of the book experiences
every day. (Notice I said totally, I know that they ignore and
contradict reality for short term story situations)
Imagine this conversation between a writer and editor.
W: ..So, then the OZT forces unleash their Doomsday device but the X-Men
working together manage to contain the blast so that only Hawaii is
destroyed.
E: What destroyed? You mean like burning buildings and stuff?
W: No... I mean gone, obliterated, sunk and unrecoverable!
E: But the readers will never buy that. They know that Hawaii isn't
really gone. At least 20 of them actually live there.
W: If they buy your crappy prizmatic foil covers then they'll buy this.
We'll just have to remember that Hawaii's gone from now on.
E: Okay... but make it North Dakota we only have eight readers in ND.
W: Gotcha!
AOA IIRC pretty much calls for a war between mutants and humans and the
destruction of most of the U.S., complete economic/social breakdown and
tens of millions dead.
DOFP only calls for the mutant concentration camps IIRC, and the
extermination of all mutants, with a Sentinel run dictatorship.
If the reality of the Marvel Universe drifts so far from the reality
of the reader, I can't imagine anyone wanting to read the books.
Maybe I don't understand the building blocks of a good fictional universe
and the reasons why one fictional universe is popular and another is not.
I just know that part of why I enjoy the X-Men is the feeling of
identification with the mundane parts of the world they live in.
If the writers bring AOA or DOFP to pass in normal MU continuity,
I don't see how I could identify with that world when my 'real' and
mundane world hasn't changed.
I'm not saying they can't do a DOFP story or even a AOA story.
I just think they will have to adjust the story so that the reader
doesn't have to assume that he is reading about a world that he has no
connection to. Otherwise change it from Earth to Urth and stop
mentioning current news items in continuity.
--
Sung to the tune Danny Boy, by Deadpool. see Deadpool #3.
Oh, Tommy Boy! Your lungs, your lungs are filling --
With blood and phlegm and other nasty things --
Oh, Tommy Boy, Your niece, your niece is buggin' WHURFF!
Jane Griffin
In article <tsc8235-ya0240800...@147.17.70.2>,
tsc...@ccgate.hac.com (MH Clark) wrote:
>
> I read a lot of posts here about AOA and DOFP and how or if they
> will come to pass.
>
> I'm not an expert on these two story arcs but it seems unlikely to
> me that either will happen.
>
> Why?
>
> Well there's is this tiny thing called reality that even X-Book
> writers can't totally ignore.
>
> It may seem like they can, but even writers can only go so far.
>
> They can create aliens, super powers, nonsense science, magic, and a
> million other things. One of the things they can't do is totally ignore
> or contradict the reality that the reader of the book experiences
> every day. (Notice I said totally, I know that they ignore and
> contradict reality for short term story situations)
I don't know about all comics, but that's largely true for the Marvel U.
>
> Imagine this conversation between a writer and editor.
>
> W: ..So, then the OZT forces unleash their Doomsday device but the X-Men
> working together manage to contain the blast so that only Hawaii is
> destroyed.
> E: What destroyed? You mean like burning buildings and stuff?
> W: No... I mean gone, obliterated, sunk and unrecoverable!
> E: But the readers will never buy that. They know that Hawaii isn't
> really gone. At least 20 of them actually live there.
> W: If they buy your crappy prizmatic foil covers then they'll buy this.
> We'll just have to remember that Hawaii's gone from now on.
> E: Okay... but make it North Dakota we only have eight readers in ND.
> W: Gotcha!
I don't think that is so much of an issue. V for Vendetta (admittedly a
LS) had no problems eradicating Africa and much of Europe. Is getting rid
of any countries really much different than adding them? (Lataveria,
Atlantis).
>
> AOA IIRC pretty much calls for a war between mutants and humans and the
> destruction of most of the U.S., complete economic/social breakdown and
> tens of millions dead.
> DOFP only calls for the mutant concentration camps IIRC, and the
> extermination of all mutants, with a Sentinel run dictatorship.
>
> If the reality of the Marvel Universe drifts so far from the reality
> of the reader, I can't imagine anyone wanting to read the books.
I think that is the real issue. It would be the abrupt change from the
current reality (which is largely like ours) to a dystopia. It isn't that
you can't set a comic there, it's that you can't really change gears like
that. Which is probably why New Universes (like 2099) start up so often,
it allows an outlet for that kind of story.
>
> Maybe I don't understand the building blocks of a good fictional universe
> and the reasons why one fictional universe is popular and another is not.
>
> I just know that part of why I enjoy the X-Men is the feeling of
> identification with the mundane parts of the world they live in.
> If the writers bring AOA or DOFP to pass in normal MU continuity,
> I don't see how I could identify with that world when my 'real' and
> mundane world hasn't changed.
>
> I'm not saying they can't do a DOFP story or even a AOA story.
> I just think they will have to adjust the story so that the reader
> doesn't have to assume that he is reading about a world that he has no
> connection to. Otherwise change it from Earth to Urth and stop
> mentioning current news items in continuity.
Exactly.
Interesting post!
--
Jane Griffin
____________________________________________________________________
Xbooks FAQ at http://weber.u.washington.edu/~cal711/faq.html
I could do it all for you, but I don't want to--BNL
Kingbob the Dark Elf
On Wed, 07 May 1997 09:12:24 -0700, tsc...@ccgate.hac.com (MH Clark)
wrote:
>W: ..So, then the OZT forces unleash their Doomsday device but the X-Men
>working together manage to contain the blast so that only Hawaii is
>destroyed.
>E: What destroyed? You mean like burning buildings and stuff?
>W: No... I mean gone, obliterated, sunk and unrecoverable!
>E: But the readers will never buy that. They know that Hawaii isn't
>really gone. At least 20 of them actually live there.
>W: If they buy your crappy prizmatic foil covers then they'll buy this.
>We'll just have to remember that Hawaii's gone from now on.
>E: Okay... but make it North Dakota we only have eight readers in ND.
>W: Gotcha!
Hey!!! Give Hawaii some credit, there are alot more readers in
Hawaii than 20!!! I know at least 20 on Kauai which doesn't include
the city of Honolulu with one of the coolest comics stores in the
world, Jellies.
Do Some RESEARCH
KINGBOB
EDITOR-IN-CHIEF; MUTANT COMICS
Want to write your favorite X-Characters without having to worry
about contunity or the characters personality. Well drop me a line
at Mutant Comics where YOU are in control of the story and their
history and origins We are a Fan-Fiction Non-Profit writing group
kst...@aloha.net
Yujon3D
On Thursday, May 7, MH Clark wrote:
> I read a lot of posts here about AOA and DOFP and how or if they
> will come to pass.
>
> I'm not an expert on these two story arcs but it seems unlikely to
> me that either will happen.
>
> Why?
>
> Well there's is this tiny thing called reality that even X-Book
> writers can't totally ignore.
>
> It may seem like they can, but even writers can only go so far.
>
> They can create aliens, super powers, nonsense science, magic, and a
> million other things. One of the things they can't do is totally ignore
> or contradict the reality that the reader of the book experiences
> every day. (Notice I said totally, I know that they ignore and
> contradict reality for short term story situations)
That would be one argument anyone can make, given the original
premise of the Marvel universe. Marvel characters are supposed to
exist in a "real world" situation, sort of like Stan Lee saying "let's
imagine what it would *really* be like if superheroes and villains
actually existed, people." At least that's the way it *was*, at the
beginning...
> Imagine this conversation between a writer and editor.
>
> W: ..So, then the OZT forces unleash their Doomsday device but
> the X-Men working together manage to contain the blast so that only
> Hawaii is destroyed.
> E: What destroyed? You mean like burning buildings and stuff?
> W: No... I mean gone, obliterated, sunk and unrecoverable!
> E: But the readers will never buy that. They know that Hawaii isn't
> really gone. At least 20 of them actually live there.
> W: If they buy your crappy prizmatic foil covers then they'll buy this.
> We'll just have to remember that Hawaii's gone from now on.
> E: Okay... but make it North Dakota we only have eight readers in ND.
> W: Gotcha!
I'd change one thing: the Editor is calling for total destruction, but
the Writer is either protesting wildly or going "yes, yes" all the
time.
> AOA IIRC pretty much calls for a war between mutants and humans
> and the destruction of most of the U.S., complete economic/social
> breakdown and tens of millions dead.
And it has *already* been done.
> DOFP only calls for the mutant concentration camps IIRC, and the
> extermination of all mutants, with a Sentinel run dictatorship.
Which has *also* been done before, although mostly as
flashbacks for time-travelers who had been there.
> If the reality of the Marvel Universe drifts so far from the reality
> of the reader, I can't imagine anyone wanting to read the books.
>
> Maybe I don't understand the building blocks of a good fictional
universe
> and the reasons why one fictional universe is popular and another is
not.
That would probably be Marvel's biggest argument with former
readers like us. We're probably outgrowing the stories which they
are aiming almost exclusively at younger readers (7 to 12 years
old), having recognized things that they're ignoring in order to get
their alternate universe across to readers. Of course, we can only
suspend disbelief for so long...
> I just know that part of why I enjoy the X-Men is the feeling of
> identification with the mundane parts of the world they live in.
> If the writers bring AOA or DOFP to pass in normal MU continuity,
> I don't see how I could identify with that world when my 'real' and
> mundane world hasn't changed.
That makes at least *two* of us...the scenes in the early NMs
where the kids actually interact with the community from Salem
Center are definitely missed.
> I'm not saying they can't do a DOFP story or even a AOA story.
> I just think they will have to adjust the story so that the reader
> doesn't have to assume that he is reading about a world that he has no
> connection to. Otherwise change it from Earth to Urth and stop
> mentioning current news items in continuity.
That is more or less the feeling that I've gotten whenever I read an
X-book over the past several years: "That's not the *real* world in
there, isn't it?"
My argument here is that *no one* knows what superhuman powers
would be like in "reality"...for all we know, the only powers capable
of happening in real life are passive psionic abilities like clairvoyance,
limited precognition, and telepathic communication. I must be an
optimist, because I doubt that I'd see an "anti-mutant" sentiment in
real life in the same manner as it is portrayed in Marvel Comics
stories.
I would also argue the point that instead of this continuous anti-
mutant propaganda, the news media would be chasing down the
X-Men after a battle in an attempt to get an interview with the heroes:
(Camera shot of reporter with mike, chasing down Storm as she
summons the other X-Men to assemble near her. The reporter
hastily sets the scene.)
Reporter: I'll try to get a word from the woman who appears to be
the leader of the X-Men (holds mike up to Storm's face).
Can you explain to the viewers what just happened
here?
Storm: (looking a little confused) We have just prevented Apocalypse
from destroying the city...
Reporter: And what about the damage?
Storm: (using a quick glare to silence Wolverine) Apocalypse started
it, and we prevented him from doing more than he had already
done. So far...
I would also imagine that the authorities would like to have the X-Men
on their side, once they've figured out whether or not they are the
*good* guys. A Mutant Registration Act might be plausible, however
onerous it might be...but O:ZT? Operation: Zero Tolerance needs
something more than Magneto having a temper tantrum and Onslaught
causing whole groups of heroes to disappear amidst a violent attack on
New York City.
But I've said this all before...
Yujon3D -- Keeper of the Amelia Voght Flame, tardy college student,
and part-time conspirator against Zero Tolerance
Ciaran John McGrath
Nice idea, but the fact is that most journalists wouldn't be anywhere
near so nice or simplistic in their questioning. In fact they would be
more likely to say: "How do you account for the fact that none of you are
registered citizens of the US? Are you avoiding your legal
responsibilities?" or "Are you going to make reparations for the huge
amounts of damage caused during the battle in which you participated?"
The point is to turn the question towards getting an answer which you like...
Ciaran J. McGrath - And I'm not ragging on journalists. I am one
occasionally.
Ken Arromdee
cal...@u.washington.edu (Jane Griffin) wrote:
>I don't think that is so much of an issue. V for Vendetta (admittedly a
>LS) had no problems eradicating Africa and much of Europe.
Because it _is_ a LS, it could get away with that (and besides it's not
supposed to be our present anyway).
>Is getting rid
>of any countries really much different than adding them? (Lataveria,
>Atlantis).
Well, nobody lives in Latveria to get annoyed that it isn't there, nor do they
see Latveria on the news or buy Latveria pineapples, so you can do whatever
you want to it in the comic. Adding isn't the same as changing....
Of course, the absence of Latveria in the news isn't very noticeable, but the
absence of Atlantis is. I think that Atlantis partly gets away with it by
being something we're familiar with out of myths. Because everyone has heard
of Atlantis, stories based there are more believable.
--
Ken Arromdee (arro...@randomc.com, karr...@nyx.nyx.net,
http://www.randomc.com/~arromdee)
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie
which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and
I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me
which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the
structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it." --Albert Einstein
Fatik Chandra Pal
MH Clark <tsc...@ccgate.hac.com> wrote in article
<tsc8235-ya0240800...@147.17.70.2>...
>
> Well there's is this tiny thing called reality that even X-Book
> writers can't totally ignore.
>
> It may seem like they can, but even writers can only go so far.
The whole idea that separated MODERN art from all else before, is that
it愀 sole function, be it writing, sculpture, painting or architecture, is
to create a view that goes with what the artists sees. If an artist is
limited by reality or limits HIMSELF to reality, we miss out on stuff like
Dali, Picasso, Asimov, Huxley, the Futurists and a whole bunch of grand
stuff. If reality limited comics, they悲 be about a kid who goes to school
everyday, gets dumped or beaten up, studies, a guy who grows up, goes to
work everyday, grows old and eventually dies and bored housewiwes and
secretarys, etc., etc., etc., ... That sounds pretty mundane and dull to
me.
Anachically yours,
Fatik Chandra Pal
de Designers
Fatik Chandra Pal wrote:
> If reality limited comics, they悲 be about a kid who goes to school
> everyday, gets dumped or beaten up, studies, a guy who grows up, goes to
> work everyday, grows old and eventually dies and bored housewiwes and
> secretarys, etc., etc., etc., ... That sounds pretty mundane and dull to
> me.
Mundane . . . not life. It seems like life would be boring, especially
if you are not living it. Everyone doing the same thing, routines,
drudgery, work, sleep, play, work, sleep, etc. So what do we do? Life is
in the details. Small, seemingly non-essential things that brighten up
each person's life.
Not everyone is going to change the world, not for everyone. We all
live in our little paradigm, our little 'verse where we are in charge of
what we do, how we do it -- why we do it. I would like to think that
that is how I would brighten up _my_ life, focusing on the little
things, how to be more creative, more efficient, more understanding,
whatever. It's not about how I am going to win the Tyler Prize for
Environmental Studies, that's nice, it's GREAT!!!!, but not the thing
that will be my final accomplishment. I can't definitively say what
would be the ultimate thing, I think becoming a father, raising my child
up as an good person, upstanding citizen, loving spouse, etc, is the
thing that is most important.
Isn't this what everyone says Scott Lobdell is great for? Downtime
stuff? Not the earth shattering, saved the universe from all evil kind
of thing. Those things are the little notches in the belt, but the belt
is a simple, useful, item -- life.
I think we all agree that since these are comics, so we are going to
get out of the ordinary situations. But it is the ordinary responses to
them that makes them believable for me. That's what I want more of.
de Designers