Plotdevicium in Uncanny X-Men (spoilers for one issue back)
Scott Eiler
a plot device or two...
So, these mutant-eating predators with *metal skin* are swimming
toward an *island* protected by *Namor and Magneto*. How is it, they
weren't all (1) dismantled underwater, or (2) skinned on the beach?
Is the island filled with Plotdevicium which saps Magneto's health and
Namor's attention span?
grinningdemon
The predators have appeared before and are extremely tough so I have
no trouble thinking Namor would have trouble with them...moreover,
most of them made it out of the water before he got to them...the
metal skin would make them vulnerable to Magneto but he only just
returned and apparently the device he used to restore his powers
didn't quite get the job done...unless Magneto is up to something and
he was faking his fatigue...either way, I didn't see a problem with
this scene.
Scott Eiler
> On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 08:42:04 -0800 (PST), Scott Eiler
> <sei...@eilertech.com> wrote:
>
> >So, these mutant-eating predators with *metal skin* are swimming
> >toward an *island* protected by *Namor and Magneto*. How is it, they
> >weren't all (1) dismantled underwater, or (2) skinned on the beach?
> >Is the island filled with Plotdevicium which saps Magneto's health and
> >Namor's attention span?
>
> The predators have appeared before and are extremely tough so I have
> no trouble thinking Namor would have trouble with them...moreover,
> most of them made it out of the water before he got to them...
You're entirely right, but therein lies my quarrel. The predators
were all in the water when Namor said, "I'll take care of these things
swimming toward your island". If we're going to say Namor can't keep
his imperial word when he says he'll beat anything and everything
under the water, we might as well say the Juggernaut isn't really
unstoppable either. I love having the rest of the Marvel Universe
show up in X-Men comics and vice versa, but it works best if the
characters have their full powers on either side of the boundary - or
at least if we know why not.
> The metal skin would make them vulnerable to Magneto but he only just
> returned and apparently the device he used to restore his powers
> didn't quite get the job done...unless Magneto is up to something and
> he was faking his fatigue...either way, I didn't see a problem with
> this scene.
Either Magneto *is* restored to his peak of health so as to make the
whole world worry, or he isn't... or there's something fluctuating his
power levels. I trust the writers *are* paying attention, so there
must be a Plot Device going on. I really won't mind if the island,
formerly Asteroid M, is stuffed with Plotdevicium which affects
Magneto's powers - as long as there's *some* explanation for this
silly $#!+.
Billy Bissette
ec321e...@n35g2000yqm.googlegroups.com:
Fraction's entire run on Uncanny has shown that he *doesn't* pay
attention.
Specifically, on his Uncanny run he has been unable to keep track of
more than two or three characters at any particular moment. This has
been present in every one of his stories since he began on the book,
and led to a number of head-scratching moments where you wonder "Why
didn't X just do Y?"
grinningdemon
<sei...@eilertech.com> wrote:
>On Dec 12, 1:49 pm, grinningdemon <grinningde...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 08:42:04 -0800 (PST), Scott Eiler
>> <sei...@eilertech.com> wrote:
>>
>> >So, these mutant-eating predators with *metal skin* are swimming
>> >toward an *island* protected by *Namor and Magneto*. How is it, they
>> >weren't all (1) dismantled underwater, or (2) skinned on the beach?
>> >Is the island filled with Plotdevicium which saps Magneto's health and
>> >Namor's attention span?
>>
>> The predators have appeared before and are extremely tough so I have
>> no trouble thinking Namor would have trouble with them...moreover,
>> most of them made it out of the water before he got to them...
>
>You're entirely right, but therein lies my quarrel. The predators
>were all in the water when Namor said, "I'll take care of these things
>swimming toward your island". If we're going to say Namor can't keep
>his imperial word when he says he'll beat anything and everything
>under the water, we might as well say the Juggernaut isn't really
>unstoppable either. I love having the rest of the Marvel Universe
>show up in X-Men comics and vice versa, but it works best if the
>characters have their full powers on either side of the boundary - or
>at least if we know why not.
Well, Namor is one of those characters whose powers are always
fluctuating anyway...like Superman, his powers adjust to fit the
story...usually not the other way around...and Namor at full power all
the time in this book would make him the star of the show...and that
would be wrong on many levels.
>> The metal skin would make them vulnerable to Magneto but he only just
>> returned and apparently the device he used to restore his powers
>> didn't quite get the job done...unless Magneto is up to something and
>> he was faking his fatigue...either way, I didn't see a problem with
>> this scene.
>
>Either Magneto *is* restored to his peak of health so as to make the
>whole world worry, or he isn't... or there's something fluctuating his
>power levels. I trust the writers *are* paying attention, so there
>must be a Plot Device going on. I really won't mind if the island,
>formerly Asteroid M, is stuffed with Plotdevicium which affects
>Magneto's powers - as long as there's *some* explanation for this
>silly $#!+.
Magneto only just turned up...give them a chance to explain what's
going on with him, won't you?
grinningdemon
And yet the book is still better than it's been in years.
Scott Eiler
> On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 14:53:08 -0800 (PST), Scott Eiler sed:
>
> >If we're going to say Namor can't keep
> >his imperial word when he says he'll beat anything and everything
> >under the water, we might as well say the Juggernaut isn't really
> >unstoppable either.
>
> fluctuating anyway...like Superman, his powers adjust to fit the
> story...usually not the other way around...and Namor at full power all
> the time in this book would make him the star of the show...and that
> would be wrong on many levels.
Copout! Not to say a copout is wrong for plot purposes, but it's
still a copout.
> >Either Magneto *is* restored to his peak of health so as to make the
> >whole world worry, or he isn't... as there's *some* explanation for this
> >silly $#!+.
>
> Magneto only just turned up...give them a chance to explain what's
> going on with him, won't you?
Well, yeah. That's what Plotdevicium is apparently for. Apparently
the former Asteroid M is stocked with it.
grinningdemon
<sei...@eilertech.com> wrote:
>On Dec 12, 6:50 pm, grinningdemon <grinningde...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 14:53:08 -0800 (PST), Scott Eiler sed:
>>
>> >If we're going to say Namor can't keep
>> >his imperial word when he says he'll beat anything and everything
>> >under the water, we might as well say the Juggernaut isn't really
>> >unstoppable either.
>>
>> Well, Namor is one of those characters whose powers are always
>> fluctuating anyway...like Superman, his powers adjust to fit the
>> story...usually not the other way around...and Namor at full power all
>> the time in this book would make him the star of the show...and that
>> would be wrong on many levels.
>
>Copout! Not to say a copout is wrong for plot purposes, but it's
>still a copout.
The truth hurts...the really powerful characters are always in flux
from one story to the next...hell, even among the X-Men, Cyclops, for
instance, is sometimes capable of pulverizing a mountain (or even
adamantium) and other times he comes off as a total light weight
(power wise)...in the past, Rogue has had limits on what powers she
can absorb and retain and now she can absorb the powers of gods (until
they decide she can't in the next story)...look at how uneven Jean has
been written when she was Phoenix...even in the good stories...need I
go on?
>> >Either Magneto *is* restored to his peak of health so as to make the
>> >whole world worry, or he isn't... as there's *some* explanation for this
>> >silly $#!+.
>>
>> Magneto only just turned up...give them a chance to explain what's
>> going on with him, won't you?
>
>Well, yeah. That's what Plotdevicium is apparently for. Apparently
>the former Asteroid M is stocked with it.
Stocked with it? Hell, the former Asteroid M is made of it.
BigRiggBlues
> On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 21:20:23 -0800 (PST), Scott Eiler
> <sei...@eilertech.com> wrote:
>
>> On Dec 12, 6:50 pm, grinningdemon <grinningde...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 14:53:08 -0800 (PST), Scott Eiler sed:
>>>
>>>> If we're going to say Namor can't keep
>>>> his imperial word when he says he'll beat anything and everything
>>>> under the water, we might as well say the Juggernaut isn't really
>>>> unstoppable either.
>>> Well, Namor is one of those characters whose powers are always
>>> fluctuating anyway...like Superman, his powers adjust to fit the
>>> story...usually not the other way around...and Namor at full power all
>>> the time in this book would make him the star of the show...and that
>>> would be wrong on many levels.
>> Copout! Not to say a copout is wrong for plot purposes, but it's
>> still a copout.
>
> The truth hurts...the really powerful characters are always in flux
> from one story to the next...hell, even among the X-Men, Cyclops, for
> instance, is sometimes capable of pulverizing a mountain (or even
> adamantium) and other times he comes off as a total light weight
> (power wise)
Well, just look at how many times they've had to explain that his optic
blasts aren't lasers and don't produce heat. It definitely shows that
some people aren't paying attention. As for the fluctuation in his power
levels, one could argue that it's all a matter of self-confidence. If
Joss Whedon's run on Astonishing taught us nothing else, it's that Scott
has some issues, even if he seems reluctant to admit them.
>...in the past, Rogue has had limits on what powers she
> can absorb and retain and now she can absorb the powers of gods (until
> they decide she can't in the next story)...
Part of me wants to chalk that up to the recent changes in her powers,
specifically her newfound control over them. Perhaps the writers were
rushed into developing the Utopia story before they had a concrete
agreement on her current status.
>look at how uneven Jean has been written when she was Phoenix...even
>in the good stories...need I go on?
Heh, the whole Phoenix thing is so massive and blown out of proportion,
that I don't think anyone truly knows where they're going with it
anymore. Personally, I like what Morrison was hinting at with it, but
whatever drives the story is good with me, especially now that they've
remedied the whole Warsong thing by stripping the Cuckoos of any part of
the Phoenix.
Billy Bissette
news:bke8i55arqo36u1vv...@4ax.com:
Not really. It is a little flashier and brighter, that's all.
The plot problems are waved away by its pace and switching between
scenes.
Personally, I much prefer the Morrison era to this bubblegum pop.
Even some of the post-Morrison stuff was better, despite the
disregard Marvel showed for the entire line in its efforts to
reverse all things Morrison (like the pointless forced insertion
of the "real" Xorn) and the other ill-conceived idiocy that followed
to wreck havoc (like M-Day/Decimation).
What is the Fraction era, really? A compressed and spliced Whedon?
(Whedon certainly had the plot holes. It just took him six issues to
do what Fraction does in one.)
grinningdemon
<bai...@coastalnet.com> wrote:
I disagree...there have been minor plot problems here and there but I
would hardly call it "bubblegum pop"...I love the characterization
among the major players in the book right now and think it is far
beyond anything Morrison ever did.
> Personally, I much prefer the Morrison era to this bubblegum pop.
>Even some of the post-Morrison stuff was better, despite the
>disregard Marvel showed for the entire line in its efforts to
>reverse all things Morrison (like the pointless forced insertion
>of the "real" Xorn) and the other ill-conceived idiocy that followed
>to wreck havoc (like M-Day/Decimation).
>
> What is the Fraction era, really? A compressed and spliced Whedon?
>(Whedon certainly had the plot holes. It just took him six issues to
>do what Fraction does in one.)
I hated the Morrison era with a firey passion (Whedon's Astonishing
was by far superior) but, regardless of your feelings about his
particular run (which was not on this series, incidentally), you have
to admit that Uncanny itself is better than it has been in a very long
time...certainly better than the garbage Joe Casey and Chuck Austen
were inflicting on us during the Morrison era.
grinningdemon
If you want to take the time to rationalize each instance where this
kind of thing occurs, be my guest...but it doesn't change my original
premise that the powers of high-powered characters are often
inconsistent over time...it's the nature of the beast when it comes
many different writers approaching powers that can't be clearly
defined and it becomes more and more noticable as the power level
increases...it's not limited to one book or even one publisher.
>>look at how uneven Jean has been written when she was Phoenix...even
>>in the good stories...need I go on?
>
>Heh, the whole Phoenix thing is so massive and blown out of proportion,
>that I don't think anyone truly knows where they're going with it
>anymore.
I don't think anyone ever did...because I don't think it was ever
meant to be a recurring theme like this.
Personally, I like what Morrison was hinting at with it, but
>whatever drives the story is good with me, especially now that they've
>remedied the whole Warsong thing by stripping the Cuckoos of any part of
>the Phoenix.
I was honestly surprised anyone even remembered the Cuckoo Phoenix
connection...and, personally, I'd be happy to never see the word
Phoenix in an X-Men story ever again...they have beaten this to death
over the years both in and out of continuity and I'm thoroughly sick
of it.