Professor Xavier an omnipath?
Andrew119
I was reading some of my old issues today, and I was wondering something.
Gamesmaster is an omnipath, able to read the minds of everyone in the world
simultaneously, and I was wondering, could pre-Onslaught Professor X have been
an omnipath as well?
"I possessed a power which allowed me unhampered access to any mind on the
planet... their hopes and fears. Their pain and sorrows. Their secrets and
their lies. In order to maintain sanity, I had to shut down -- close off -- a
large portion of my mind. Not unlike cutting off a arm to save the entire
body."
-- Uncanny X-Men #304
"There were moments, in the dead of the night -- as the rest of the world slept
-- that young Charles Xavier could hear them. "Them" meaning the billion or so
voices which belonged to the rest of the world. Their inner voices. Their
thoughts.
Their hopes and dreams. Their hidden aspirations... their secret shames. He
could taste the emontional fruit of their successes -- and drank unbidden from
the cup of their most bitter failures. A woefully inexperienced telepath at the
age of thirteen, he was certain he would go mad. He would have too, if he
hadn't found this place. This secret sanctum. Right here. In his own mind. In
his own backyard..."
-- X-Men -1
XM -1 says that Professor Xavier heard the thoughts of everyone else in the
world. UXM #304 says that he had to shut down a large portion of his mind to
avoid being driven insane. Now, Gamesmaster _isn't_ able to shut the world's
thoughts out of his head, hence his need to play games to maintain his sanity.
He was never able to shield the world's thoughts from his mind.Yet Professor
Xavier _was_ able to keep from reading all the world's thoughts at once, so
wasn't burdened with the entire world's population of thoughts running unbidden
through his head. He was able to pick and choose whose minds he read, because
he mastered control over his abilities. I would like to know what everyone
thinks of this theory.
Roberto Da Costa
Andrew119 (andr...@aol.com) typed:
> I was reading some of my old issues today, and I was wondering something.
> Gamesmaster is an omnipath, able to read the minds of everyone in the world
> simultaneously, and I was wondering, could pre-Onslaught Professor X have been
> an omnipath as well?
> XM -1 says that Professor Xavier heard the thoughts of everyone else in the
> world. UXM #304 says that he had to shut down a large portion of his mind to
> avoid being driven insane. Now, Gamesmaster _isn't_ able to shut the world's
> thoughts out of his head, hence his need to play games to maintain his sanity.
> He was never able to shield the world's thoughts from his mind.Yet Professor
> Xavier _was_ able to keep from reading all the world's thoughts at once, so
> wasn't burdened with the entire world's population of thoughts running unbidden
> through his head. He was able to pick and choose whose minds he read, because
> he mastered control over his abilities. I would like to know what everyone
> thinks of this theory.
Mmmm. No. I don't think he's an omnipath. I think he was just so
powerful a telepath as to create a similar effect. The very definition
of 'omnipath' means that they have to sense -every- mind. An omnipath
would not be capable of focusing their power on just a few people,
they would always have 'all' people in their mind, except if their
powers were neutralized somehow. However, Xavier is able to shut out
as many minds as he wishes, and focus on just one person if he wants
to, and that goes contrary to the definition of an omnipath.
An omnipath would not be able to get 'all' people out of their mind.
Xavier is only a telepath who was strong enough to produce an effect
similar to omnipathy, but he's capable of shutting out people
selectively, which -- to me, anyway -- proves that he's no omnipath.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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"And if our butch-cut scoutmaster tells us not to interfere, then
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Captain America, AVENGERS #188
John Bilow
In article <199805300018...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, andr...@aol.com (Andrew119) wrote:
>I was reading some of my old issues today, and I was wondering something.
>Gamesmaster is an omnipath, able to read the minds of everyone in the world
>simultaneously, and I was wondering, could pre-Onslaught Professor X have been
>an omnipath as well?
No, he is an extremely powerful telepath, but not an omnipath. For one thing,
he didn't have the range. Way back when, in the early to mid 100's of
uncanny, Magneto mucked with the earth's magnetic field in such a way as to
hamper long range telepathic communication. Xavier was limited to about 500
miles or so.
John Bilow
To reply, remove "spamsucks" from my address
Eric L Bailey
On 30 May 1998 01:49:33 GMT, sam...@utu.fi (Roberto Da Costa) wrote:
>Andrew119 (andr...@aol.com) typed:
>> I was reading some of my old issues today, and I was wondering something.
>> Gamesmaster is an omnipath, able to read the minds of everyone in the world
>> simultaneously, and I was wondering, could pre-Onslaught Professor X have been
>> an omnipath as well?
>
>> XM -1 says that Professor Xavier heard the thoughts of everyone else in the
>> world. UXM #304 says that he had to shut down a large portion of his mind to
>> avoid being driven insane. Now, Gamesmaster _isn't_ able to shut the world's
>> thoughts out of his head, hence his need to play games to maintain his sanity.
>> He was never able to shield the world's thoughts from his mind.Yet Professor
>> Xavier _was_ able to keep from reading all the world's thoughts at once, so
>> wasn't burdened with the entire world's population of thoughts running unbidden
>> through his head. He was able to pick and choose whose minds he read, because
>> he mastered control over his abilities. I would like to know what everyone
>> thinks of this theory.
>
>Mmmm. No. I don't think he's an omnipath. I think he was just so
>powerful a telepath as to create a similar effect. The very definition
>of 'omnipath' means that they have to sense -every- mind. An omnipath
>would not be capable of focusing their power on just a few people,
>they would always have 'all' people in their mind, except if their
>powers were neutralized somehow. However, Xavier is able to shut out
>as many minds as he wishes, and focus on just one person if he wants
>to, and that goes contrary to the definition of an omnipath.
>
>An omnipath would not be able to get 'all' people out of their mind.
>Xavier is only a telepath who was strong enough to produce an effect
>similar to omnipathy, but he's capable of shutting out people
>selectively, which -- to me, anyway -- proves that he's no omnipath.
It has also been shown that there are some he can't read if he tries
(He couldn't read Maddie, for example).
E
Legion
andr...@aol.com (Andrew119) wrote:
>I was reading some of my old issues today, and I was wondering something.
>Gamesmaster is an omnipath, able to read the minds of everyone in the world
>simultaneously, and I was wondering, could pre-Onslaught Professor X have been
>an omnipath as well?
>
>planet... their hopes and fears. Their pain and sorrows. Their secrets and
>their lies. In order to maintain sanity, I had to shut down -- close off -- a
>large portion of my mind. Not unlike cutting off a arm to save the entire
>body."
> -- Uncanny X-Men #304
>
to shut down some of his abilitys.The only problem with it is why didnt he
help Gamesmaster?
Legion
cellblo...@homail.spamsucks.com (John Bilow) wrote:
>In article <199805300018...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, andr...@aol.com (Andrew119) wrote:
>>I was reading some of my old issues today, and I was wondering something.
>>Gamesmaster is an omnipath, able to read the minds of everyone in the world
>>simultaneously, and I was wondering, could pre-Onslaught Professor X have been
>>an omnipath as well?
>
>he didn't have the range. Way back when, in the early to mid 100's of
>uncanny, Magneto mucked with the earth's magnetic field in such a way as to
>hamper long range telepathic communication. Xavier was limited to about 500
>miles or so.
>
ability.Totally.As he said removing a limb.It doesn't come back on request
it's gone forever.I believe that very early on he was an omnipath but shut
it down to maintain sanity.
Aleph Press
Eric L Bailey (bai...@airmail.net) wrote:
: It has also been shown that there are some he can't read if he tries
: (He couldn't read Maddie, for example).
Not a contradiction. Gamesmaster can't read Magneto/Joseph (at least,
he's been shown to be unable to read Joseph, and the implicaiton was that
he found this perfectly normal because he couldn't read Magneto, either.)
X-Men Annual 97, I think.
The question is, is an omnipath someone who *can* read every mind on the
planet at the same time, or someone who *must*? If it's can, then Xavier
was once an omnipath. If it's must, he never was.
Someone brought up that Magneto mucking with the earth's magnetic field
limited Xavier's range. Very true. If so, I wonder if indirectly that
created Gamesmaster? Gamesmaster may have been completely catatonic, with
*no* mind of his own, before Magneto did that, and the telepathic
interference allowed Gamesmaster to pull back enough from the minds he
couldn't help reading to be able to restore a semblance of sanity. since
Gamesmaster was responsible in part forFabian Cortez going after Magento
and driving him insane, this seems like yet another case of Magneto being
nailed by poetic justice. :-)
--
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don't have to.
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Alara Rogers, Aleph Press
al...@netcom.com
All Aleph Press stories are at http://www.mindspring.com/~alara/ajer.
Aleph Press
Legion (OBri...@iol.ie) wrote:
: Well this is my theory too, that he was an omnipath for a time but managed
: help Gamesmaster?
If he didn't know about Gamesmaster, how could he have helped him? I
don't recall Gamesmaster ever contacting him and asking for help...
Eric L Bailey
Remember, he couldn't read Maddie when she was right there with him,
no matter how hard he tried. He also commented that that didn't mean
she had extrememly powerful psychic defenses (though that turned out
to be the case) because there had always been people he couldn't read.
Jean may actually be more powerful than he is, as she can pick up
something from anything that's breathing (the way she discovered one
of the crows was mechanical last issue) and has to conciously shut out
everyone's thoughts who are around her. That was part of Dark
Phoenix's problem, she COULDN'T shut out people's thoughts.
E
Hydro
Aleph Press wrote:
>
> Eric L Bailey (bai...@airmail.net) wrote:
>
> : It has also been shown that there are some he can't read if he tries
> : (He couldn't read Maddie, for example).
>
> Not a contradiction. Gamesmaster can't read Magneto/Joseph (at least,
> he's been shown to be unable to read Joseph, and the implicaiton was
> that he found this perfectly normal because he couldn't read Magneto,
> either.) X-Men Annual 97, I think.
That wasn't 'reading,' that was almost like UXM #174.
> The question is, is an omnipath someone who *can* read every mind on
> the planet at the same time, or someone who *must*? If it's can, then
> Xavier was once an omnipath. If it's must, he never was.
Not necessarily. If it is *must,* then Xavier could have shut down
parts of his brain (Mentioned in UXM #304 and #-1, among others) to
prevent that from overwhelming him. In other words, back then he *had*
to read every mind on Earth, making him an omnipath, and then withdrew
into safer limits.
> Someone brought up that Magneto mucking with the earth's magnetic
> field limited Xavier's range. Very true. If so, I wonder if indirectly
> that created Gamesmaster? Gamesmaster may have been completely
> catatonic, with *no* mind of his own, before Magneto did that, and the
> telepathic interference allowed Gamesmaster to pull back enough from
> the minds he couldn't help reading to be able to restore a semblance
> of sanity.
I think UXM #301 mentioned that Gamesmaster has contact with almost all
(If not all) minds on the planet. If Magneto had severely hampered
Charles' use of his powers, then it would stand to reason that
Gamesmaster would be affected in much the same way. Unless he were
powerful enough to sense alien minds in other galaxies, affecting
Earth's magnetic field wouldn't limit him to nearly 100% of all terrans.
He would have had to be very powerful originally, and even now he
should be reckoned with. I strongly doubt that Magneto's tampering
enabled Gamesmaster to control his powers, as they are still vast and he
barely stays in control without the Upstarts game.
My opinion is that the Earth's magnetic field reverted back to normal,
as it is this field that enables planet-sun-planet interaction and
orbit. After a few years of correct orbiting, the field should have been
good as new.
And didn't Magneto fix the magnetic field later? I don't recall exact
details, but I believe it was mentioned in UXM #274 or #275.
> since Gamesmaster was responsible in part forFabian Cortez going after
> Magento and driving him insane, this seems like yet another case of
> Magneto being nailed by poetic justice. :-)
Well, perhaps it never happened, aye?
-Hydro, who's feeling very happy but wondering if his .sig is too long.
--
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Lick it baby!"
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Aleph Press
Hydro (e...@hatespam.net) wrote:
: Aleph Press wrote:
: > Not a contradiction. Gamesmaster can't read Magneto/Joseph (at least,
: > he's been shown to be unable to read Joseph, and the implicaiton was
: > that he found this perfectly normal because he couldn't read Magneto,
: > either.) X-Men Annual 97, I think.
: That wasn't 'reading,' that was almost like UXM #174.
I don't understand this statement. Please clarify?
: > The question is, is an omnipath someone who *can* read every mind on
: > the planet at the same time, or someone who *must*? If it's can, then
: > Xavier was once an omnipath. If it's must, he never was.
: Not necessarily. If it is *must,* then Xavier could have shut down
: parts of his brain (Mentioned in UXM #304 and #-1, among others) to
: prevent that from overwhelming him. In other words, back then he *had*
: to read every mind on Earth, making him an omnipath, and then withdrew
: into safer limits.
So he's an omnipath who burned himself out deliberately?
: > Someone brought up that Magneto mucking with the earth's magnetic
: > field limited Xavier's range. Very true. If so, I wonder if indirectly
: > that created Gamesmaster? Gamesmaster may have been completely
: > catatonic, with *no* mind of his own, before Magneto did that, and the
: > telepathic interference allowed Gamesmaster to pull back enough from
: > the minds he couldn't help reading to be able to restore a semblance
: > of sanity.
: I think UXM #301 mentioned that Gamesmaster has contact with almost all
: (If not all) minds on the planet. If Magneto had severely hampered
: Charles' use of his powers, then it would stand to reason that
: Gamesmaster would be affected in much the same way. Unless he were
: powerful enough to sense alien minds in other galaxies, affecting
: Earth's magnetic field wouldn't limit him to nearly 100% of all terrans.
: He would have had to be very powerful originally, and even now he
: should be reckoned with. I strongly doubt that Magneto's tampering
: enabled Gamesmaster to control his powers, as they are still vast and he
: barely stays in control without the Upstarts game.
Magneto's tampering occurred around the 100's of UXM. So, follow this. If
Gamesmaster was reading everyone's mind to the degree that he was
actually connected to those minds, *was* those minds, there wouldn't have
been anything left of him. Catatonia is the obvious outcome. Magneto
inhibits long-range telepathy world wide, and this weakens Gamesmaster to
the point where he can distinguish between other minds and his own. He
can thus develop a mind of his own. He may be hanging onto his sanity
with bare fingers, but he isn't catatonic.
What I'm saying is that ebfore, he was so "powerful" that he may not have
been able to hold onto his sanity through *any* means. Magneto's
tampering "weakened" him enough that he could regain his own mind and
fight to keep his sanity rather than simply being overwhlemed.
: My opinion is that the Earth's magnetic field reverted back to normal,
: as it is this field that enables planet-sun-planet interaction and
: orbit. After a few years of correct orbiting, the field should have been
: good as new.
Uh, no. The field has nothing to do with orbit. Gravity does that.
Actually, the field is *generated* by orbit, and yes, it can be
permanently altered. In real life, about every 100,000 years it goes
through a cataclysm and changes polarity (so compasses would point south,
for instance.) No one knows why. And Xavier has not been shown to be in
mental contact with people on the other side of the planet since Magneto
did this.
: And didn't Magneto fix the magnetic field later? I don't recall exact
: details, but I believe it was mentioned in UXM #274 or #275.
No, not only didn't he, but he flat out said he couldn't in UXM #202. UXM
#274-275 talked about him at one poitn having wanted to bond himself to
the Earth's magnetic field and essentially become one with the planet,
which was what Zaladane's intention was, and about him having fought the
Shadow King, but nothing about fixing the magnetic field.
Hydro
Aleph Press wrote:
>
> Hydro (e...@hatespam.net) wrote:
> :
> : Aleph Press wrote:
> : >
> : > Not a contradiction. Gamesmaster can't read Magneto/Joseph (at
> : > least, he's been shown to be unable to read Joseph, and the
> : > implicaiton was that he found this perfectly normal because he
> : > couldn't read Magneto, either.) X-Men Annual 97, I think.
> :
> : That wasn't 'reading,' that was almost like UXM #174.
>
> I don't understand this statement. Please clarify?
Sure. You cited XMAn '97, in which Gamesmaster talks about his hard
time reading Magneto/Joseph. But that wasn't exactly a case of reading
his mind, the story featured a new, crazy, made-up reality courtesy of
Gamesmaster. It's been a while since I read it, but I don't think that
the difficulty in reading Joseph's mind was mentioned.
> : > The question is, is an omnipath someone who *can* read every mind
> : > on the planet at the same time, or someone who *must*? If it's
> : > can, then Xavier was once an omnipath. If it's must, he never was.
> :
> : Not necessarily. If it is *must,* then Xavier could have shut
> : down parts of his brain (Mentioned in UXM #304 and #-1, among
> : others) to prevent that from overwhelming him. In other words, back
> : then he *had* to read every mind on Earth, making him an omnipath,
> : and then withdrew into safer limits.
>
> So he's an omnipath who burned himself out deliberately?
More like crippled himself. He shut down portions of his brain to
retain sanity, later equating the action to cutting off a limb to
salvage the body (UXM #304).
A great theory, but I don't like it (Because I can find holes in it,
whee!).
It's been established that Charles Xavier is the world's most powerful
telepath. And I would presume that this includes the power he had
possessed before shutting down some parts of his brain (Currently, he
couldn't be more powerful than Gamesmaster, but before, he was). Keep
this in mind.
Xavier, in UXM #304, mentioned that he had to shut down large portions
of his mind to maintain his sanity. His power "allowed unhampered access
to any mind on the planet..." It doesn't mention that he had difficulty
establishing his own individual identity, but rather implies (Further
on) that the thoughts were overwhelming him.
Now, since we know Gamesmaster is not as powerful as Charles, we can't
say that he actually became the minds of the people (A weaker telepath
can't accomplish what a stronger one can't, in terms of mind
accessibility).
If Gamesmaster never had that kind of trouble, then the Earth's
magnetic field couldn't have hampered his powers all that much to help
him regain his sanity. I think that the magnetic field has reverted back
to its original state, or that the writers are treating it like it has,
because there is no point in having it so problematic.
> What I'm saying is that ebfore, he was so "powerful" that he may not
> have been able to hold onto his sanity through *any* means. Magneto's
> tampering "weakened" him enough that he could regain his own mind and
> fight to keep his sanity rather than simply being overwhlemed.
>
> : My opinion is that the Earth's magnetic field reverted back to
> : normal, as it is this field that enables planet-sun-planet
> : interaction and orbit. After a few years of correct orbiting, the
> : field should have been good as new.
>
> Uh, no. The field has nothing to do with orbit. Gravity does that.
> Actually, the field is *generated* by orbit, and yes, it can be
> permanently altered. In real life, about every 100,000 years it goes
> through a cataclysm and changes polarity (so compasses would point
> south, for instance.) No one knows why. And Xavier has not been shown
> to be in mental contact with people on the other side of the planet
> since Magneto did this.
My apologies for messing up the magnetic field/orbit thing. And thanks
for the correction.
On an aside, if Magneto altered the field tremendously, shouldn't the
orbit change?
As for Xavier, he's been shown to be in mental contact with people
off-world since Magneto did this, in X-Men #43. Legion teleported
X-Factor halfway across the world once, and that was an aspect of his
psychic powers. The Shadow King caused worldwide hysteria (Although I
don't recall if he had the same range pre-field-problems).
> : And didn't Magneto fix the magnetic field later? I don't
> : recall exact details, but I believe it was mentioned in UXM #274 or
> : #275.
>
> No, not only didn't he, but he flat out said he couldn't in UXM #202.
> UXM #274-275 talked about him at one poitn having wanted to bond
> himself to the Earth's magnetic field and essentially become one with
> the planet, which was what Zaladane's intention was, and about him
> having fought the Shadow King, but nothing about fixing the magnetic
> field.
Good memory on #202. Since then, though, Magneto has been shown to have
been using his time during the X-Men for his own purposes anyway, and so
he could have lied about fixing the magnetic field. There's no reason to
believe he was telling the truth then, because it could have served his
purposes to keep it altered.
Again, thanks for the correction on #274-5.
Aleph Press
: Sure. You cited XMAn '97, in which Gamesmaster talks about his hard
: time reading Magneto/Joseph. But that wasn't exactly a case of reading
: his mind, the story featured a new, crazy, made-up reality courtesy of
: Gamesmaster. It's been a while since I read it, but I don't think that
: the difficulty in reading Joseph's mind was mentioned.
It was. Gamesmaster couldn't read Joseph's mind (thus, Joseph bluffed him
by preteneding to kill Jean Grey), and Gamesmaster's ability to fool him
into beliving in the false reality was incomplete.
: > So he's an omnipath who burned himself out deliberately?
: More like crippled himself. He shut down portions of his brain to
: retain sanity, later equating the action to cutting off a limb to
: salvage the body (UXM #304).
Yeah, that's what I meant.
: > Magneto's tampering occurred around the 100's of UXM. So, follow this.
: > If Gamesmaster was reading everyone's mind to the degree that he was
: > actually connected to those minds, *was* those minds, there wouldn't
: > have been anything left of him. Catatonia is the obvious outcome.
: > Magneto inhibits long-range telepathy world wide, and this weakens
: > Gamesmaster to the point where he can distinguish between other minds
: > and his own. He can thus develop a mind of his own. He may be hanging
: > onto his sanity with bare fingers, but he isn't catatonic.
: A great theory, but I don't like it (Because I can find holes in it,
: whee!).
: It's been established that Charles Xavier is the world's most powerful
: telepath. And I would presume that this includes the power he had
: possessed before shutting down some parts of his brain (Currently, he
: couldn't be more powerful than Gamesmaster, but before, he was). Keep
: this in mind.
Mm, consider that "power" means different things. If Charles Xavier is
the most powerful telepath, it may well be a combination of raw power,
versatility, and ability to shift from the micro to macro scales.
Is Lila Cheney a more powerful teleporter than Nightcraler? Well, her
range is very much greater, but Nightcrawler is *far* more versatile. He
can use his power in combat; all Lila can do is run away. So I would say
that Nightcrawler could be said to be a more "powerful" porter than Lila,
because he can do much more with it.
: Xavier, in UXM #304, mentioned that he had to shut down large portions
: of his mind to maintain his sanity. His power "allowed unhampered access
: to any mind on the planet..." It doesn't mention that he had difficulty
: establishing his own individual identity, but rather implies (Further
: on) that the thoughts were overwhelming him.
: Now, since we know Gamesmaster is not as powerful as Charles, we can't
: say that he actually became the minds of the people (A weaker telepath
: can't accomplish what a stronger one can't, in terms of mind
: accessibility).
Charles is the most powerful *mind* as well as the most powerful
telepath. That, too, has been said. Charles's willpower may have been
enough that from the beginning, he was able to force control. Or, he may
be more "powerful" precisely *because* he has more control. Gamesmaster
couldn't burn out his own brain to save himself. Charles could. Charles
is therefore more powerful.
: If Gamesmaster never had that kind of trouble, then the Earth's
: magnetic field couldn't have hampered his powers all that much to help
: him regain his sanity. I think that the magnetic field has reverted back
: to its original state, or that the writers are treating it like it has,
: because there is no point in having it so problematic.
Has *any* telepath pulled any of the stunt Charles used to all the time?
communicate across the planet? Astrally project to a foreign country?
Find mutants all over the globe? If no, then I'd say it's still in the
same condition Magneto left it. Xavier did that stuff with trivial ease,
before.
Of course, Jean's recent statement that Xavier is nowhere on the planet
could be interpreted to say that yes, the field has reset, because unless
she really is Phoenix, she should not have the power to do that if the
field is still interfering.
: > Uh, no. The field has nothing to do with orbit. Gravity does that.
: > Actually, the field is *generated* by orbit, and yes, it can be
: > permanently altered. In real life, about every 100,000 years it goes
: > through a cataclysm and changes polarity (so compasses would point
: > south, for instance.) No one knows why. And Xavier has not been shown
: > to be in mental contact with people on the other side of the planet
: > since Magneto did this.
: My apologies for messing up the magnetic field/orbit thing. And thanks
: for the correction.
: On an aside, if Magneto altered the field tremendously, shouldn't the
: orbit change?
No. The field has absolutely no effect on the orbit. The Van Allen belt
could have been screwed with, though.
: As for Xavier, he's been shown to be in mental contact with people
: off-world since Magneto did this, in X-Men #43. Legion teleported
: X-Factor halfway across the world once, and that was an aspect of his
: psychic powers. The Shadow King caused worldwide hysteria (Although I
: don't recall if he had the same range pre-field-problems).
Okay, then yeah, it does sound like it fixed itself.
: > : And didn't Magneto fix the magnetic field later? I don't
: > : recall exact details, but I believe it was mentioned in UXM #274 or
: > : #275.
: >
: > No, not only didn't he, but he flat out said he couldn't in UXM #202.
: > UXM #274-275 talked about him at one poitn having wanted to bond
: > himself to the Earth's magnetic field and essentially become one with
: > the planet, which was what Zaladane's intention was, and about him
: > having fought the Shadow King, but nothing about fixing the magnetic
: > field.
: Good memory on #202. Since then, though, Magneto has been shown to have
: been using his time during the X-Men for his own purposes anyway, and so
: he could have lied about fixing the magnetic field. There's no reason to
: believe he was telling the truth then, because it could have served his
: purposes to keep it altered.
Firstly, I don't think Magneto was lying, because he had no good reason
to. Xavier was offplanet, and not coming home anytime soon. Rachel could
find Magneto, with Phoenix-power levels, anytime she wanted to-- the reason
Magneto mucked with it in the first place was to keep Xavier from
finding him. Secondly, while Magneto did indeed study and later
duplicate Shi'ar technology he was exposed to while there, I trust his
thought balloons during the time period, which establish that he
genuinely did want to try Xavier's way and was honestly trying to make
his time with the X-Men work, more than I trust his nonsensical
statments to Sebastian Shaw about wanting the New Mutants to be his
footsoldiers or Storm's rather hysterical contention that he betrayed
them by "stealing" Shi'ar technology (the man's an inventor and a
scientist-- you expose him to alien tech, and you expect him to *not*
try to figure it out and then duplicate it when he no longer has access
to yours?)
It is possible that Magneto's inability to fix it was an inability to fix
it *quickly*, given that he made the alterations over many months in the
first place. It's also possible that he was, in fact, significantly
weakened by his fall from space in NM #21 that led to him joining the
X-Men, and he didn't in fact have the power levels to fix it in UXM #202.
Perhaps he *did* fix it, later, when his power was restored. (Magneto's
general degree of wussitude when he was with the X-Men in those days is
hard to explain without saying he was weakened and didn't want to admit
it...)
Roberto Da Costa
Aleph Press (al...@netcom.com) typed:
> : It's been established that Charles Xavier is the world's most powerful
> : telepath. And I would presume that this includes the power he had
> : possessed before shutting down some parts of his brain (Currently, he
> : couldn't be more powerful than Gamesmaster, but before, he was).
> Mm, consider that "power" means different things. If Charles Xavier is
> the most powerful telepath, it may well be a combination of raw power,
> versatility, and ability to shift from the micro to macro scales.
> Is Lila Cheney a more powerful teleporter than Nightcraler? Well, her
> range is very much greater, but Nightcrawler is *far* more versatile. He
> can use his power in combat; all Lila can do is run away. So I would say
> that Nightcrawler could be said to be a more "powerful" porter than Lila,
> because he can do much more with it.
Note that Gamesmaster has on several occasions been stated to be an
'omnipath'. Xavier, on the other hand, is a 'telepath'. These are
-not- the same power, they are different powers. It's quite possible
to have an omnipath as weak as, say, Nanny. The fact that Gamesmaster
is in touch with every mind in the world says nothing about his power
levels, it says much about what his power -is-.
> Of course, Jean's recent statement that Xavier is nowhere on the planet
> could be interpreted to say that yes, the field has reset, because unless
> she really is Phoenix, she should not have the power to do that if the
> field is still interfering.
Unless she's flown across the world and scanned for him.
Justin Samuels
Aleph Press wrote:
>
> Uh, no. The field has nothing to do with orbit. Gravity does that.
> Actually, the field is *generated* by orbit, and yes, it can be
> permanently altered. In real life, about every 100,000 years it goes
> through a cataclysm and changes polarity (so compasses would point south,
> for instance.) No one knows why. And Xavier has not been shown to be in
> mental contact with people on the other side of the planet since Magneto
> did this.
In the infinit ycrusade he telepathically contacted Moondragon when she
was one another planet. Phoenix telepathically scanned the whole world
for Xavier. And Xavier, when he was in Anartica during X-men Unlimited
1, was going to contact the X-men via telepathy. he couldn't because of
Siena Blaze's electro magnetic disruptions, not because what magneto did
. The White Queen was shown playing with Iceman's mind long distance
,and when he called her she knew it was him calling. Emma is less
powerful than Xavier.
Justin Samuels
Aleph Press wrote:
>
> Has *any* telepath pulled any of the stunt Charles used to all the time?
> communicate across the planet? Astrally project to a foreign country?
Jean astrally projected herself from Alaska to the Southwest US in UXM
353. She did projected herself in the form of a bird. The White Queen
was messing with Iceman's mind long distance, and she even knew when he
was calling her on the telephone. Madelyne Pryor in X-man 25 flew to
Switerland ,and Nate Grey telepathically tracked her there from NYC.
When Nate Grey first entered this world, Threnody sensed his presense,
as did Xavier, and Jean. All three of them where in the US, while Nate
Grey was in Switerland.
As Onslaught, Xavier astrally projected himself in to Canada, where he
telekinetically knocked Juggernaught to NJ. And he was telepathically
aware of the fight he made the X-men do against Post, which took place
in the Southwest. Onslaught sensed Holocaust and found him(he was in
another country.).
> Find mutants all over the globe? If no, then I'd say it's still in the
> same condition Magneto left it. Xavier did that stuff with trivial ease,
> before.
>
> Of course, Jean's recent statement that Xavier is nowhere on the planet
> could be interpreted to say that yes, the field has reset, because unless
> she really is Phoenix, she should not have the power to do that if the
> field is still interfering.
Oh, and during the Muir Island Saga, the Shadow King telepathically
tracked down Rogue and sicced Ms. Marvel on her.
>
Hydro
[A lot of snippage. Thanks for the initial correction. The rest of the
useless stuff is snipped.]
> : A great theory, but I don't like it (Because I can find holes
> : in it, whee!).
> : It's been established that Charles Xavier is the world's most
> : powerful telepath. And I would presume that this includes the power
> : he had possessed before shutting down some parts of his brain
> : (Currently, he couldn't be more powerful than Gamesmaster, but
> : before, he was). Keep this in mind.
>
> Mm, consider that "power" means different things. If Charles Xavier is
> the most powerful telepath, it may well be a combination of raw power,
> versatility, and ability to shift from the micro to macro scales.
Well, I think "power" pretty much means, well, force, strength, you
know. I interpret it like that, since the strength stuff is what is
almost always mentioned.
> Is Lila Cheney a more powerful teleporter than Nightcraler? Well, her
> range is very much greater, but Nightcrawler is *far* more versatile.
> He can use his power in combat; all Lila can do is run away. So I
> would say that Nightcrawler could be said to be a more "powerful"
> porter than Lila, because he can do much more with it.
That's slightly different. I would say that Lila is a more powerful
teleporter; in teleporting terms, she has more power. She can teleport
intergalactically.
> : Xavier, in UXM #304, mentioned that he had to shut down large
> : portions of his mind to maintain his sanity. His power "allowed
> : unhampered access to any mind on the planet..." It doesn't mention
> : that he had difficulty establishing his own individual identity, but
> : rather implies (Further on) that the thoughts were overwhelming him.
> : Now, since we know Gamesmaster is not as powerful as Charles,
> : we can't say that he actually became the minds of the people (A
> : weaker telepath can't accomplish what a stronger one can't, in terms
> : of mind accessibility).
>
> Charles is the most powerful *mind* as well as the most powerful
> telepath. That, too, has been said. Charles's willpower may have been
> enough that from the beginning, he was able to force control. Or, he
> may be more "powerful" precisely *because* he has more control.
> Gamesmaster couldn't burn out his own brain to save himself. Charles
> could. Charles is therefore more powerful.
Again, I don't consider control to be a part of the power factor. If
they said 'better,' then I could say that Charles has more control,
while Gamesmaster has a larger range.
There are also slight differences in the makeup of their powers.
Charles is a telepath-combination-omnipath; he had unhampered access to
people's minds, but shut that off with telepathy. Gamesmaster doesn't
have the capacity to do that.
> : If Gamesmaster never had that kind of trouble, then the
> : Earth's magnetic field couldn't have hampered his powers all that
> : much to help him regain his sanity. I think that the magnetic field
> : has reverted back to its original state, or that the writers are
> : treating it like it has, because there is no point in having it so
> : problematic.
>
> Has *any* telepath pulled any of the stunt Charles used to all the
> time? communicate across the planet? Astrally project to a foreign
> country? Find mutants all over the globe? If no, then I'd say it's
> still in the same condition Magneto left it. Xavier did that stuff
> with trivial ease, before.
Well, I cited several examples below, and you seem to agree that the
field is reset.
> Of course, Jean's recent statement that Xavier is nowhere on the
> planet could be interpreted to say that yes, the field has reset,
> because unless she really is Phoenix, she should not have the power to
> do that if the field is still interfering.
There ya go.
> : As for Xavier, he's been shown to be in mental contact with
> : people off-world since Magneto did this, in X-Men #43. Legion
> : teleported X-Factor halfway across the world once, and that was an
> : aspect of his psychic powers. The Shadow King caused worldwide
> : hysteria (Although I don't recall if he had the same range
> : pre-field-problems).
>
> Okay, then yeah, it does sound like it fixed itself.
Yesssss!
--
Hydro
You wouldn't believe this, but I somehow got the post to send before I
finished it! Here's the second half:
> > : Good memory on #202. Since then, though, Magneto has been
> > : shown to have been using his time during the X-Men for his own
> > : purposes anyway, and so he could have lied about fixing the
> > : magnetic field. There's no reason to believe he was telling the
> > : truth then, because it could have served his purposes to keep it
> > : altered.
> >
> > Firstly, I don't think Magneto was lying, because he had no good
> > reason to. Xavier was offplanet, and not coming home anytime soon.
> > Rachel could find Magneto, with Phoenix-power levels, anytime she
> > wanted to-- the reason Magneto mucked with it in the first place was
> > to keep Xavier from finding him. Secondly, while Magneto did indeed
> > study and later duplicate Shi'ar technology he was exposed to while
> > there, I trust his thought balloons during the time period, which
> > establish that he genuinely did want to try Xavier's way and was
> > honestly trying to make his time with the X-Men work, more than I
> > trust his nonsensical statments to Sebastian Shaw about wanting the
> > New Mutants to be his footsoldiers or Storm's rather hysterical
> > contention that he betrayed them by "stealing" Shi'ar technology
> > (the man's an inventor and a scientist-- you expose him to alien
> > tech, and you expect him to *not* try to figure it out and then
> > duplicate it when he no longer has access to yours?)
Aside from the fact that a lot of the above was a run-on sentence... ;)
Okay, let's believe that Magneto wasn't lying. He couldn't fix the
shield then.
> > It is possible that Magneto's inability to fix it was an inability
> > to fix it *quickly*, given that he made the alterations over many
> > months in the first place. It's also possible that he was, in fact,
> > significantly weakened by his fall from space in NM #21 that led to
> > him joining the X-Men, and he didn't in fact have the power levels
> > to fix it in UXM #202. Perhaps he *did* fix it, later, when his
> > power was restored. (Magneto's general degree of wussitude when he
> > was with the X-Men in those days is hard to explain without saying
> > he was weakened and didn't want to admit it...)
You make this too easy on me! ;)
I have the weird idea that Magneto actually didn't fix it at all! In
X-Men #25, there was this EM mesh across the Earth, forged by different
satellites (Some very ancient). Let's say that the measurements were
calibrated to a time before Magneto mucked with the Earth's magnetic
field. To keep with continuity, let's say that after Magneto's first or
early appearances, the governments of the world began to creat these
satellites, based on what the Earth's EM field was originally (They
didn't have them finished by UXM #150).
Now, when those satellites activated, the EM mesh they created
re-established the EM field of the Earth. It reverted due to magnetic
interactions! How's that sound?
Or, when Magneto fell to Earth in X-Men #3, the sudden entrance of so
much magnetic energy forced the field back to normal (Too farfetched),
or warped it in such a way that it now actually promotes long-range
telepathy!
To wrap things up: Gamesmaster isn't as powerful as Charles could be.
He can't filter thoughts, as he isn't a telepath. He never got control
of his powers due to Magneto's mucking with the shield, because he isn't
a telepath. The shield is back to normal.
-Hydro, who is now getting a migraine from all of this. 3 out of 4
doctors recommend Advil, yet 3 out of 4 doctors recommend
Tylenol! Which is right? Head hurts more. Must get Mackie to
make sense of this nonsense.
Matthew J Wilson
Hydro <e...@hatespam.net> writes:
>Aleph Press wrote:
>>
>> Hydro (e...@hatespam.net) wrote:
>> :
> [A lot of snippage. Thanks for the initial correction. The rest of the
>useless stuff is snipped.]
>> Charles is the most powerful *mind* as well as the most powerful
>> telepath. That, too, has been said. Charles's willpower may have been
>> enough that from the beginning, he was able to force control. Or, he
>> may be more "powerful" precisely *because* he has more control.
>> Gamesmaster couldn't burn out his own brain to save himself. Charles
>> could. Charles is therefore more powerful.
> Again, I don't consider control to be a part of the power factor. If
>they said 'better,' then I could say that Charles has more control,
>while Gamesmaster has a larger range.
> There are also slight differences in the makeup of their powers.
>Charles is a telepath-combination-omnipath; he had unhampered access to
>people's minds, but shut that off with telepathy. Gamesmaster doesn't
>have the capacity to do that.
I look at that as Xavier being, originally, both telepath and omnipath,
but using his telepathy to shut down his omnipathy. The Gamesmaster,
being just an omnipath, didn't have that option.
--
Matt.
Paul Cassidy
>They are not different powers. Xavier, right after Illyana died,
>explicity said he had the power to read every mind on the planet at
>once, but to keep from going insane he turned off aa large portion of
>his power . Gamesmaster lacks Xavier's control. Any powerful telepath
>could become an omnipath. Jean, Xavier, Nate,etc are all capable of
>turning their telepathy off, where Gamesmaster can't. it's a control
>thing.
>
I don't think Jean can turn hers off (at least not for long!). In the
Onslaught prequal, where the big O pulls her into the Astral plane from the
clothes shop, the mag starts with her complaining that she cannot stop
hearing everyones thoughts.