Xorn: a retrospective

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Paul O'Brien

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Sep 11, 2003, 6:35:19 PM9/11/03
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Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.


SPOILERS

So, how does New X-Men #146 add up with Xorn's previous appearances?
Let's take a look.

NEW X-MEN 2001: The opening scene which recapped Xorn's history is
written as a demonstration for John Sublime of the U-Men and so it's
consistent with Magneto's claim to have falsified the whole thing. Ao
Jun, the Chinese government agent who's present at the demo, is a mutant
and is evidently in on the scam - he plants the clues that lead the
X-Men there. (He was killed by a U-Man at the end of the issue, so
we'll probably never know for sure.) The scheme was also trying to set
up the U-Men, and Magneto would be opposed to them anyway.

The flashback to Xorn being imprisoned is actually Emma Frost reading
telepathic imprints from a key which, in retrospect, must have been
planted by Magneto. The key is very, very important indeed, for reasons
that I'll come back to.

Xorn's first line of dialogue - in English, even though nobody should be
able to telepathically teach him the language - is this:-

"I could have built heaven on earth, if only they'd let me. I could
have laid the foundation stones of paradise here on earth." Entirely
consistent with Magneto's view of himself.

Xorn's fake prison was called Feng Tu. When asked about this name, Emma
Frost replies "It's from mythology."

NEW X-MEN #122: After that, Xorn is packed off to a monastery "for
healing." Cyclops picks him up in New X-Men #122 to help in the fight
with Cassandra Nova. This is where he suddenly develops healing powers,
despite that having nothing whatsoever to do with the "sun in the head"
concept.

NEW X-MEN #123: Xorn and Cyclops are knocked out by the Imperial Guard
off panel without ever getting off the blocks.

NEW X-MEN #124: Xorn and Cyclops spend this issue as prisoners aboard a
Shi'ar craft. Of course, Magneto has a common interest in stopping
Cassandra, so there's no logical problem with him siding with the X-Men
here. Xorn dutifully plays naive throughout the story, and camps it up
tremendously ("He [Scott] is NOT mad. Scott is my friend! WHAT IS THIS
WORLD OF LIARS?!")

They escape when Xorn knocks out G-Type of the Imperial Guard as a
distraction; Scott attributes this to his suggestion to do
something-or-other involving the "sun for a brain" gimmick, but what
G-Type actually says is "My core is in flux. There is an unknown
gravitational source interfering..."

NEW X-MEN #125: As the fight continues, Xorn is shown to be affecting
G-Type with energy waves from his hands, not his head. He goes on to
save Lilandra, but then why wouldn't he? It's consistent with his
cover, besides which he has no issue with Lilandra, who isn't human.

When Xorn reveals that the spacecraft is about to blow up, his dialogue
is (emphasis added): "This superdestroyer machine is about to commit
suicide... I can hear its ELECTROMAGNETIC alarms."

NEW X-MEN #126: Xorn and Cyclops return to the Mansion, where
Cassandra's body is dying and Xavier has been downloaded into Jean's
mind - and she's also dying, because of the nano-sentinel infection.
Xorn pronounces Cassandra dead and says that there is nothing he can do
about her. Cyclops protests that Xorn said he could "bring the
Professor back" - and he was healing dead birds when we saw him in issue
#123, so Scott's response isn't unreasonable.

Xorn dodges the question somewhat. He replies "I can, but he is gone
from that body and my true task is now clear to me. I'm hear to heal
you [referring to Jean]." Xorn then "heals" everyone in the mansion by
killing the Sentinel infestations in their body. ("There. The
Sentinels in your bloodstream... they are dead now.") Of course,
Magneto would have no problem with that, because they're metal
creatures. Presumably this is where Magneto picked up the nanosentinels
which he claims to have used to fix Xavier's nervous system - the
mansion was overrun with them at the relevant time. Xorn then proceeds
to help in the fight against Cassandra, but again, why wouldn't he?

Issue #126 is the only time that Xorn the "healer" actually heals anyone
- and it's from a disease involving nano-Sentinels. Every other time
he's asked to heal someone from anything else, he makes up an excuse not
to do it.

NEW X-MEN #127: this is the Xorn solo story. As the penultimate page
makes clear, the narration is a letter written by Xorn to Xavier, in
character. Therefore, it's all lies and can be safely ignored. What
remains is in character for Magneto. He goes to Chinatown in accordance
with his cover story. He sees a teenage mutant who's unwell, and tries
to help. When the mutant goes nuts (in an area shown to be heavily
populated with other mutants), Magneto tries to calm him down. He
regrets the boy's death. Strip away the narration, which we now know to
be falsified, and the story makes perfect sense - albeit from a rather
different light. The narration happily replaces a large chunk of the
actual dialogue, so a lot of the time we're left with Xorn's highly
dubious account of what was said.

Note also that Xorn establishes in that issue that Xavier can't read his
mind - which he attributed to the "blinding" effect of the sun in his
head. Presumably the mask actually served a double purpose of
disguising Magnus' identity and blocking telepathic scans.

NEW X-MEN #135: Xorn's founded his Special Class. Of course, Xorn
remains in character as they go off on their field trip over the next
few issues.

In issue #135, Xorn is able to light a campfire by... well, doing
something with his head. We see it from behind and vaguely. Device in
the helmet? All the other characters are standing behind him as well,
incidentally.

Meanwhile, back at the Mansion, the Riot is starting. Oddly, Xorn has
chosen to get the hell out of the way and go on a camping trip instead.
And just where was Quire getting his drugs from...?

NEW X-MEN #136: Xorn slaughters a bunch of U-Men - entirely out of
character for the pacifist. Angel finds him in the aftermath. Xorn's
comment is that "Sometimes the teacher must leave to make room for
learning," which in retrospect may refer to him dropping his persona.
Xorn then tells Angel that "this will be our secret." But why did Xorn
want to keep it secret? Now we know.

Angel quietly acquiesces; as we saw this issue, Xorn has extended some
sort of mental control over the Special Class, by hijacking Martha's
telepathy. ("Martha says we have to do what Mister Xorn says!",
according to Ernst. Martha, of course, is hooked up to a machine and
therefore at Magneto's mercy...)

NEW X-MEN #137: Xorn is present at the tail end of the Riot, but does
nothing of note.

NEW X-MEN #138: Xorn and the Beast head off to recapture Glob Herman.
Now we know how Xorn was somehow able to move a bloody great cement
mixer apparently using only his physical strength - it's made of metal.

Later in the issue, when Quentin Quire is dying, Xavier summons Xorn to
heal him. Xorn attends, but again makes excuses for not using his
supposed healing powers. He says that Quire is "only changing" and it
would be "wrong to interfere." Of course, he's lying. The final
exchange of dialogue reads very differently in retrospect:

XORN: When I was a boy, not much younger than you are, Quentin, a little
star opened like a flower inside my head.

QUIRE: What if the real enemy... was inside... all along?

XORN [saluting]: A flower made of lights is opening in you. I can help
you to let go of your last, painful attachments to this flesh where you
were grown. There is something in you that is like me. Do you see?

And then Xorn removes his faceplate, for only Quire to see. Quire
screams... and dies before he can tell anyone why.

NEW X-MEN #139: The Jean/Emma showdown. Xorn stands around and has a
couple of neutral lines. "I can feel such stress and pain here... like
gravity bending space." Hmm.

NEW X-MEN #140: Xorn is looking after the Special Class when Bishop and
Sage come round to visit. Sage asks him what he was doing when Emma was
shot; his reply is "Meditating, I believe." Near the end of the issue,
Sage sets out some of their unanswered questions in narrative captions.
One of them, "Who supplied the drug called Kick we keep hearing so much
about?" is positioned right next to a panel of Xorn and the Special
Class...

NEW X-MEN #141: Sage comments that "We shouldn't have come here, Bishop.
There's something rotten at the Xavier School. Riots, drugs, telepathic
adultery, murder..." I'll come back to that list later.

The Beak, one of the Special Class under Xorn's influence, offers
himself as the murderer but botches the confession. Is Magneto trying
to throw the investigators off the scent?

Later, Xorn accompanies Xavier, Sage and Bishop to the hut where Angel
and Beak are looking after their pupae. Dialogue:

XORN: Angel and Beak are not killers, Charles. I know these children
and trust in their goodness.

XAVIER: Sometimes even the best people will do terrible things to
protect their secrets, Mr Xorn.

Did Magneto have Emma killed by one of his Special Class because she had
worked out who he really was - or perhaps she knew he was the Kick
dealer?

Xorn was, presumably, the man who pointed a gun at Sage's back. She
described him as male and "at least six foot two, possibly taller".
According to the Official Handbook, Magneto's height is... six foot two.

And Xorn makes no appearance in issues #142-145.

Now then...

Sage listed four things that were symptoms of something being "rotten"
at Xavier's school. Presumably Magneto is responsible for all four.

1. RIOTS. Magneto has been subverting the pupils - note that Quire was
pro-Magneto. And Quire was also on Kick.

2. DRUGS. Which he got from Magneto.

3. MURDER. Magneto tried to kill Emma, presumably because she either
worked out who he was, or found out that he was the Kick supplier.

4. TELEPATHIC ADULTERY. Hold on... telepathic adultery? Magneto was
responsible for Scott and Emma's relationship? Ludicrous, I hear you
cry!

But no.

Scott and Emma's adultery subplot started in... NEW X-MEN 2001, Xorn's
first appearance. Emma is given a key which is supposedly the key to
Xorn's cell, but which we now know must have been created by Magneto as
part of the charade. Cyclops asks her to read it telepathically for
information. Emma replies "I'll try, but I hope you all realize this
could take hour upon tedious hour..."

To her immense surprise, she is instead bombarded with overpowering
images of Xorn's supposed origin story in the very next panel, and
doesn't even get to finish her sentence. Emma finds exposure to
Magneto's poisoned key so unpleasant that she collapses and then
switches to diamond form in order to turn off her telepathic powers.

That night (and a mere two pages later), Emma turns up at Scott's room
wearing an evening gown and holding champagne. "I couldn't sleep after
the traumas of the day," she says.

The key was clearly set up to deceive telepaths. Did it also poison
Emma's mind and put the idea of the affair into her head? Apparently
so...


--
Paul O'Brien

THE X-AXIS - http://www.thexaxis.com
ARTICLE 10 - http://www.ninthart.com
LIVEJOURNAL - http://www.livejournal.com/~paulobrien

Ji...@whatever.com

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Sep 11, 2003, 7:10:27 PM9/11/03
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>Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
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>SPOILERS
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>So, how does New X-Men #146 add up with Xorn's previous
>appearances?

Excellent recap. The story was all there.

Also of note is the fact that 146 cover of Xorn was
initially a cover for an earlier issue. I think it was the
Xorn solo issue that you mention.

Jess Nevins

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Sep 11, 2003, 7:26:58 PM9/11/03
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Excellent job, Paul. I'm convinced.


Paul O'Brien

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Sep 11, 2003, 7:27:54 PM9/11/03
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In message <3f60f93c.54...@newsville.com>, Ji...@whatever.com
writes

>
>Excellent recap. The story was all there.

Thanks. One other point worth mentioning:

SPOILERS

The prison in New X-Men 2001 doesn't have any staff! At least, not
unless you count the warden, who's in league with Magneto.

There are a load of visiting U-Men in their containment suits, and some
people who might be other U-Men or might be robots. But there can't be
any need for containment suits, because the warden doesn't bother with
one. So why would all the guards be wearing one?

There's nobody there! The prison only has one employee because Magneto
faked the rest with robots!

lavar78

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Sep 11, 2003, 7:43:19 PM9/11/03
to
In article <G0YblwNniPY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk>, Paul O'Brien
<pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
>
>
> SPOILERS
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> So, how does New X-Men #146 add up with Xorn's previous appearances?
> Let's take a look.
>

> Xorn's first line of dialogue - in English, even though nobody should be
> able to telepathically teach him the language - is this:-
>
> "I could have built heaven on earth, if only they'd let me. I could
> have laid the foundation stones of paradise here on earth." Entirely
> consistent with Magneto's view of himself.
>

I totally forgot about those lines.

> Xorn's fake prison was called Feng Tu. When asked about this name, Emma
> Frost replies "It's from mythology."
>

Do we know what it means?

> They escape when Xorn knocks out G-Type of the Imperial Guard as a
> distraction; Scott attributes this to his suggestion to do
> something-or-other involving the "sun for a brain" gimmick, but what
> G-Type actually says is "My core is in flux. There is an unknown
> gravitational source interfering..."
>

Hmm...

> When Xorn reveals that the spacecraft is about to blow up, his dialogue
> is (emphasis added): "This superdestroyer machine is about to commit
> suicide... I can hear its ELECTROMAGNETIC alarms."
>

I'm ashamed that didn't set off *any* flags.

Wow. I think I was blinded by my disdain for Xorn.

> Later in the issue, when Quentin Quire is dying, Xavier summons Xorn to
> heal him. Xorn attends, but again makes excuses for not using his
> supposed healing powers. He says that Quire is "only changing" and it
> would be "wrong to interfere." Of course, he's lying. The final
> exchange of dialogue reads very differently in retrospect:
>
> XORN: When I was a boy, not much younger than you are, Quentin, a little
> star opened like a flower inside my head.
>
> QUIRE: What if the real enemy... was inside... all along?
>
> XORN [saluting]: A flower made of lights is opening in you. I can help
> you to let go of your last, painful attachments to this flesh where you
> were grown. There is something in you that is like me. Do you see?
>
> And then Xorn removes his faceplate, for only Quire to see. Quire
> screams... and dies before he can tell anyone why.
>

That's classic! The "star for a head" was the perfect cover. Come to
think of it, seeing Xorn's true face was probably the most shocking
think Quentin could've seen.

As a shot in the dark, that dialogue makes me wonder if Quentin isn't
helping Xorn and/or Martha control the special class. Unlikely, but
still.

> 4. TELEPATHIC ADULTERY. Hold on... telepathic adultery? Magneto was
> responsible for Scott and Emma's relationship? Ludicrous, I hear you
> cry!
>
> But no.
>
> Scott and Emma's adultery subplot started in... NEW X-MEN 2001, Xorn's
> first appearance. Emma is given a key which is supposedly the key to
> Xorn's cell, but which we now know must have been created by Magneto as
> part of the charade. Cyclops asks her to read it telepathically for
> information. Emma replies "I'll try, but I hope you all realize this
> could take hour upon tedious hour..."
>
> To her immense surprise, she is instead bombarded with overpowering
> images of Xorn's supposed origin story in the very next panel, and
> doesn't even get to finish her sentence. Emma finds exposure to
> Magneto's poisoned key so unpleasant that she collapses and then
> switches to diamond form in order to turn off her telepathic powers.
>
> That night (and a mere two pages later), Emma turns up at Scott's room
> wearing an evening gown and holding champagne. "I couldn't sleep after
> the traumas of the day," she says.
>
> The key was clearly set up to deceive telepaths. Did it also poison
> Emma's mind and put the idea of the affair into her head? Apparently
> so...

I don't know about this one. It makes sense, but I hate it when the
"good guys" aren't forced to take full responsibility for their actions
(Scott with Maddie, Xavier as Onslaught, etc.).

Well done, Paul! Bravo, Morrison! I have to admit I'm impressed.
Score one for the "Morrison has a plan" brigade.

--
/lavar78

Paul O'Brien

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Sep 11, 2003, 7:59:29 PM9/11/03
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In message <110920031943198865%lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom>, lavar78
<lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom> writes

SPOILERS


>
>As a shot in the dark, that dialogue makes me wonder if Quentin isn't
>helping Xorn and/or Martha control the special class. Unlikely, but
>still.

Nope. Xavier and the Beast summon Xorn to try and save Quentin from
dying. Of course, Quentin's illness has nothing to do with nanotech, so
there's nothing Xorn can do about it. So he makes up this gibberish
about Quentin moving on to another phase of his life cycle, as an excuse
for why he shouldn't use his oh-so-powerful healing abilities.

Quentin's dead. Xorn was lying and the X-Men fell for it.

>I don't know about this one. It makes sense, but I hate it when the
>"good guys" aren't forced to take full responsibility for their actions
>(Scott with Maddie, Xavier as Onslaught, etc.).

It wouldn't get Scott off the hook, only Emma. And in any event it's
not clear that the key necessarily did anything more than put the idea
into her mind.

Billy Bissette

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Sep 11, 2003, 8:26:47 PM9/11/03
to
Paul O'Brien <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in
news:G0YblwNniPY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk:

> Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
>
>
> SPOILERS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> So, how does New X-Men #146 add up with Xorn's previous appearances?
> Let's take a look.
>

> NEW X-MEN #122: After that, Xorn is packed off to a monastery "for
> healing." Cyclops picks him up in New X-Men #122 to help in the fight
> with Cassandra Nova. This is where he suddenly develops healing powers,
> despite that having nothing whatsoever to do with the "sun in the head"
> concept.

Doesn't he heal the bird here, before going off with Scott? I remember
the scene, but not the details.

His later healing uses the nanosentinels that Cassandra spread amongst
the X-Men. So how did he heal the bird? Was the bird just wounded enough
that a rather strong Magneto could do it within his own powers, or perhaps
Nova had used nanosentinels earlier?

> Issue #126 is the only time that Xorn the "healer" actually heals anyone
> - and it's from a disease involving nano-Sentinels. Every other time
> he's asked to heal someone from anything else, he makes up an excuse not
> to do it.

To be fair about it, he outright says he doesn't have enough power to
heal the horse. Whether he referred to his own ability, or he had figured
out he could use nanosentinels to heal...

> Note also that Xorn establishes in that issue that Xavier can't read his
> mind - which he attributed to the "blinding" effect of the sun in his
> head. Presumably the mask actually served a double purpose of
> disguising Magnus' identity and blocking telepathic scans.

And that possibility was made evident to all readers when Quentin made
his own helmet based off of Magneto's design.

> NEW X-MEN #136: Xorn slaughters a bunch of U-Men - entirely out of
> character for the pacifist. Angel finds him in the aftermath. Xorn's
> comment is that "Sometimes the teacher must leave to make room for
> learning," which in retrospect may refer to him dropping his persona.
> Xorn then tells Angel that "this will be our secret." But why did Xorn
> want to keep it secret? Now we know.

It wasn't entirely a matter of keeping it secret. Even then the even
read like the emphasis was on Xorn getting a hook of some kind into Angel,
whether for good or for bad.

> Angel quietly acquiesces; as we saw this issue, Xorn has extended some
> sort of mental control over the Special Class, by hijacking Martha's
> telepathy. ("Martha says we have to do what Mister Xorn says!",
> according to Ernst. Martha, of course, is hooked up to a machine and
> therefore at Magneto's mercy...)

I don't think it is mental control via Martha. I think it is just
control. Most of the Special Class likely feel themselves to have bonded
with Xorn, and are thus willing to do what he says. Martha herself is
quite likely not the happiest camper in existence, and he likely could
think the proper thoughts towards her to get her on his side.

Angel is likely the only person who might knowingly go against Xorn.
But Angel knows the 'secret' from the camping trip. Angel knows that if
Xorn sees a need to do it, he will kill plenty of people fast, and will
use death as a tool. He has Angel under his control because she likely
fears him from that time onwards.

> The Beak, one of the Special Class under Xorn's influence, offers
> himself as the murderer but botches the confession. Is Magneto trying
> to throw the investigators off the scent?

Easier to believe Beak was simply trying to protect Angel, and did so
because of her.


And just for Magneto still being around... I did point out after the
destruction of Genosha story that the artwork showed the plane exploding
before it hit Magneto's tower, though I also raised the issue whether it
was simply an art mistake, or Quitely's quality level, or the intention
that Magneto had actually protected himself. Throwing on his helmet would
cause Xavier to not be able to find him, and he could play dead until
whenever he wanted to reappear. (Since they never said they found a body,
and fooling Xavier was always a possibility.)

coondawg

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Sep 11, 2003, 8:28:40 PM9/11/03
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"Paul O'Brien" <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:zNJG7oXhxQY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk...

> In message <110920031943198865%lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom>, lavar78
> <lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom> writes
>
> SPOILERS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> >As a shot in the dark, that dialogue makes me wonder if Quentin isn't
> >helping Xorn and/or Martha control the special class. Unlikely, but
> >still.
>
> Nope. Xavier and the Beast summon Xorn to try and save Quentin from
> dying. Of course, Quentin's illness has nothing to do with nanotech, so
> there's nothing Xorn can do about it. So he makes up this gibberish
> about Quentin moving on to another phase of his life cycle, as an excuse
> for why he shouldn't use his oh-so-powerful healing abilities.
>
> Quentin's dead. Xorn was lying and the X-Men fell for it.
>
> >I don't know about this one. It makes sense, but I hate it when the
> >"good guys" aren't forced to take full responsibility for their actions
> >(Scott with Maddie, Xavier as Onslaught, etc.).
>
> It wouldn't get Scott off the hook, only Emma. And in any event it's
> not clear that the key necessarily did anything more than put the idea
> into her mind.
>
> --
> Paul O'Brien
>

ok, i'll buy it all (readily actually, great recap!) but....
in 2001 there is fear that Xorn is about to become a black hole killing
himself etc. . .now mags could fake some aspects of the
gravity-collapes-scientific whatchamawhosis, but does it fit your plot line?
just want to hear your input on it.

Graeme

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Sep 11, 2003, 8:34:46 PM9/11/03
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"Paul O'Brien" <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:G0YblwNniPY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk...

<snip>


SPOILER SPACE

Thanks for the recap, Paul. Without having read #146 (waiting for the TPB,
and all that), though, it still leaves me feeling somewhat dissatisfied for
reasons I'm having trouble pinning down.

Perhaps it's the elaborate nature of the deception and the relatively short
interval between Magneto's disappearance in Genosha and "Xorn's" appearance
in China (at least to my recollection - it's been a few months since I've
read those issues), but more likely I'm just disappointed with Morrison's
handling of the revelation.

While it's true that with the virtue of hindsight many examples of Xorn's
powers can be seen as clever deceptions on Magneto's part, they were only
successful at misleading the readers because the nature and scope of Xorn's
powers remained poorly defined to the readers through most of his
appearances. I would have expected the X-Men themselves to be more aware of
Xorn's capabilities, though, and to have noticed inconsistencies in his
behaviour and powers that would have alerted them that something was wrong,
and for something of this to have shown up in the comics themselves. The
X-Men accepted Xorn's behaviour and explanations at face value, which made
me less inclined to question things that struck me as odd.

I've always considered Xorn to be less benign than the X-Men believed at
best, and a potential threat from within at worst, so the latest turn of
events isn't completely surprising or shocking to me. I suspect I may have
enjoyed Xorn's betrayal more if it had been simply Xorn, rather than Magneto
acting in a way that (to me) doesn't seem to fit right with his character.
I admit I'm disappointed with the manner of Magneto's return - it sounds
like a flashback to a more simplistic era of comics-writing, where villains
would be unmasked in an almost Scooby-Doo like fashion.

Still, congratulations must go to Morrison and Marvel (not to mention
Claremont and Austen, who presumably were also aware of this) for keeping
the secret safe for so long.

Graeme
--
http://members.optusnet.com.au/graeme

"I stayed up all night playing poker with tarot cards.
I got a full house and four people died." - Steve Wright.


Marc-Oliver Frisch

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Sep 11, 2003, 8:39:52 PM9/11/03
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Paul O'Brien wrote:

: Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.


:
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: SPOILERS
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:
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: So, how does New X-Men #146 add up with Xorn's previous appearances?
: Let's take a look.

Looks like a fine piece of work, both from you and Morrison.

And if my nose hasn't left me entirely, this shouldn't be the only big retbomb
("retroactive bombshell" (c) 2003 Me) he's going to drop. I have to admit that this one
caught me utterly by surprise, though.

At any rate, Morrison's proven that you can trust him to have thought things through. For
example, the reason why the "description" of Xorn's powers always sounded like horseshit
is a simple one: It actually IS horseshit! This even explains why Xorn wasn't at hand to
heal any wounded people over in UNCANNY X-MEN.

Now, I'll have to wait another two or three weeks until I get the damn comic...

--
Marc-Oliver Frisch
Dersc...@hotmail.com

Logic is the poor man's fantasy.

--
[Please note: This is a Usenet message, originally posted to the rec.arts.comics.* groups.
If you see it in a moderated or censored forum, it was copied there without my consent.]


Del

unread,
Sep 11, 2003, 9:02:11 PM9/11/03
to
Paul O'Brien <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> writes

>In message <110920031943198865%lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom>, lavar78
><lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom> writes
>
>SPOILERS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>As a shot in the dark, that dialogue makes me wonder if Quentin isn't
>>helping Xorn and/or Martha control the special class. Unlikely, but
>>still.
>
>Nope. Xavier and the Beast summon Xorn to try and save Quentin from
>dying. Of course, Quentin's illness has nothing to do with nanotech,
>so there's nothing Xorn can do about it. So he makes up this gibberish
>about Quentin moving on to another phase of his life cycle, as an
>excuse for why he shouldn't use his oh-so-powerful healing abilities.
>
>Quentin's dead. Xorn was lying and the X-Men fell for it.
>
>>I don't know about this one. It makes sense, but I hate it when the
>>"good guys" aren't forced to take full responsibility for their actions
>>(Scott with Maddie, Xavier as Onslaught, etc.).
>
>It wouldn't get Scott off the hook, only Emma. And in any event it's
>not clear that the key necessarily did anything more than put the idea
>into her mind.

Additionally, perhaps since I don't have the actual issue, but when Esme
left the school, people noticed that the car she left in had no driver.
Some people thought then that it might be Magneto, but it was naturally
dismissed out of hand.

--
"Curiouser"
Del

lavar78

unread,
Sep 11, 2003, 9:16:47 PM9/11/03
to
In article <zNJG7oXhxQY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk>, Paul O'Brien
<pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> In message <110920031943198865%lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom>, lavar78
> <lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom> writes
>
> SPOILERS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> >As a shot in the dark, that dialogue makes me wonder if Quentin isn't
> >helping Xorn and/or Martha control the special class. Unlikely, but
> >still.
>
> Nope. Xavier and the Beast summon Xorn to try and save Quentin from
> dying. Of course, Quentin's illness has nothing to do with nanotech, so
> there's nothing Xorn can do about it. So he makes up this gibberish
> about Quentin moving on to another phase of his life cycle, as an excuse
> for why he shouldn't use his oh-so-powerful healing abilities.
>

Well, that certainly makes the most sense, but I wonder. Looking back
at the issue, I'm sure Quentin's words ("What if we were both wrong,
Professor X...and it wasn't humans to blame at all? What if the real
enemy... was inside... all along?") are clues to the existence of a
traitor. I guess he was going for double meaning and Quentin *didn't*
know about Magnus. OTOH, it almost seems like Xorn is trying to
distract the others from what Quentin is saying.

> Quentin's dead. Xorn was lying and the X-Men fell for it.
>

Yeah, that's probably it. More importantly, we fell for it. Xorn has
said a lot of questionable things that I've never really questioned
(well, until Austen beat me over the head with a
Xorn-is-more-than-he-seems stick). It's a credit to Morrison that
Xorn's slaughter of all those people set off less flags than his verbal
attack on Annie.

So, the question I've been wondering since I found out: why didn't
Logan know? What good are heightened senses if you can't smell
Magneto? Furthermore, why didn't Jean know if she is really using the
Phoenix force?

--
/lavar78

lavar78

unread,
Sep 11, 2003, 9:35:17 PM9/11/03
to
In article <Xns93F3CFDAB6B0...@207.69.154.201>, Billy
Bissette <bai...@coastalnet.com> wrote:

> Paul O'Brien <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in
> news:G0YblwNniPY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk:
>
> > Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
> >
> >
> > SPOILERS
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > So, how does New X-Men #146 add up with Xorn's previous appearances?
> > Let's take a look.
> >
> > NEW X-MEN #122: After that, Xorn is packed off to a monastery "for
> > healing." Cyclops picks him up in New X-Men #122 to help in the fight
> > with Cassandra Nova. This is where he suddenly develops healing powers,
> > despite that having nothing whatsoever to do with the "sun in the head"
> > concept.
>
> Doesn't he heal the bird here, before going off with Scott? I remember
> the scene, but not the details.
>
> His later healing uses the nanosentinels that Cassandra spread amongst
> the X-Men. So how did he heal the bird? Was the bird just wounded enough
> that a rather strong Magneto could do it within his own powers, or perhaps
> Nova had used nanosentinels earlier?

I can answer this one: he never heals the bird. The guy who leads
Scott to Xorn says, "The bird was dead...I saw it die... But he took it
in his hands and..." Then, we see a bird (which is glowing) hovering
above Xorn's hands. In the next panel, it flies away. Anyone want to
explain the glow? Paul?

--
/lavar78

R. Tang

unread,
Sep 11, 2003, 9:46:31 PM9/11/03
to
In article <110920032135171905%lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom>,

Metallic sparklers? From metallic dust? 'Cause....just because the
bird is hovering doesn't mean it's alive.....
--
-
-Roger Tang, gwan...@u.washington.edu, Artistic Director PC Theatre
- Editor, Asian American Theatre Revue [NEW URL][Yes, it IS new]
- http://www.aatrevue.com

Scott Dubin

unread,
Sep 11, 2003, 10:19:07 PM9/11/03
to
Paul O'Brien <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<G0YblwNniPY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk>...

> 4. TELEPATHIC ADULTERY. Hold on... telepathic adultery? Magneto was
> responsible for Scott and Emma's relationship? Ludicrous, I hear you
> cry!
>
> But no.
>
> Scott and Emma's adultery subplot started in... NEW X-MEN 2001, Xorn's
> first appearance. Emma is given a key which is supposedly the key to
> Xorn's cell, but which we now know must have been created by Magneto as
> part of the charade. Cyclops asks her to read it telepathically for
> information. Emma replies "I'll try, but I hope you all realize this
> could take hour upon tedious hour..."
>
> To her immense surprise, she is instead bombarded with overpowering
> images of Xorn's supposed origin story in the very next panel, and
> doesn't even get to finish her sentence. Emma finds exposure to
> Magneto's poisoned key so unpleasant that she collapses and then
> switches to diamond form in order to turn off her telepathic powers.
>
> That night (and a mere two pages later), Emma turns up at Scott's room
> wearing an evening gown and holding champagne. "I couldn't sleep after
> the traumas of the day," she says.
>
> The key was clearly set up to deceive telepaths. Did it also poison
> Emma's mind and put the idea of the affair into her head? Apparently
> so...

I don't buy this one. It's before Jean became the Phoenix again, so
there'd be no real reason to target Cyclops or Jean specifically.
Furthermore, it's completely in character for Emma to try to seduce
Scott, it's not like she was acting strangely. Also, it's just silly.

Also, if her mind was really poisoned, wouldn't Jean have known as a
result of the whole mental rape bit?

Terrafamilia

unread,
Sep 11, 2003, 11:27:19 PM9/11/03
to

"R. Tang" wrote:

St. Elmo's Fire?
http://www.mysterylights.com/types/stelmo/

Ciao,

Terrafamilia

Jeremy Henderson

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 12:06:50 AM9/12/03
to
On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 19:43:19 -0400, lavar78
<lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom> spake unto us thusly:

>In article <G0YblwNniPY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk>, Paul O'Brien
><pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
>>
>>
>> SPOILERS
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> So, how does New X-Men #146 add up with Xorn's previous appearances?
>> Let's take a look.
>>
>> Xorn's first line of dialogue - in English, even though nobody should be
>> able to telepathically teach him the language - is this:-
>>
>> "I could have built heaven on earth, if only they'd let me. I could
>> have laid the foundation stones of paradise here on earth." Entirely
>> consistent with Magneto's view of himself.
>>
>I totally forgot about those lines.
>
>> Xorn's fake prison was called Feng Tu. When asked about this name, Emma
>> Frost replies "It's from mythology."
>>
>Do we know what it means?

Basically, in Chinese mythology it's the capital of Hell. Consistent
with Xorn's cover story, but not really relevant to Magneto.
_______________________________
"You can dream the American Dream
But you sleep with the lights on
And wake up with a scream
You can hope against hope
That nothing will change
Grab a hold of that fistful of rain"
Warren Zevon, 1947-2003

Jeremy Henderson

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 12:49:42 AM9/12/03
to
On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 02:39:52 +0200, "Marc-Oliver Frisch"
<Dersc...@hotmail.com> spake unto us thusly:

>Paul O'Brien wrote:
>
>: Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
>:
>:
>: SPOILERS
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>: So, how does New X-Men #146 add up with Xorn's previous appearances?
>: Let's take a look.
>
>Looks like a fine piece of work, both from you and Morrison.
>
>And if my nose hasn't left me entirely, this shouldn't be the only big retbomb
>("retroactive bombshell" (c) 2003 Me) he's going to drop. I have to admit that this one
>caught me utterly by surprise, though.
>
>At any rate, Morrison's proven that you can trust him to have thought things through. For
>example, the reason why the "description" of Xorn's powers always sounded like horseshit
>is a simple one: It actually IS horseshit! This even explains why Xorn wasn't at hand to
>heal any wounded people over in UNCANNY X-MEN.
>
>Now, I'll have to wait another two or three weeks until I get the damn comic...

I succumbed to the spoilers as well, and haven't read the issue yet.
What I'm wondering is, how far in advance did Magneto have this
planned? It does seem awfully elaborate for him to have come up with
this whole plan on a whim after Genosha was destroyed.

I'm now wondering whether he was somehow behind Cassandra Nova and the
destruction of Genosha himself, though killing 16 million mutants
would hardly be in character for him.

Nick

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 12:50:50 AM9/12/03
to
Ji...@whatever.com wrote in message news:<3f60f93c.54...@newsville.com>...

> >Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
> >
> >
> >SPOILERS
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >So, how does New X-Men #146 add up with Xorn's previous
> >appearances?
>
> Excellent recap. The story was all there.
>

Indeed. I stand corrected, very nice job Paul.

Nick.

Scott Dubin

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 1:35:56 AM9/12/03
to
lavar78 <lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom> wrote in message news:<110920032116475323%lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom>...

>
> > Quentin's dead. Xorn was lying and the X-Men fell for it.
> >
> Yeah, that's probably it. More importantly, we fell for it. Xorn has
> said a lot of questionable things that I've never really questioned
> (well, until Austen beat me over the head with a
> Xorn-is-more-than-he-seems stick). It's a credit to Morrison that
> Xorn's slaughter of all those people set off less flags than his verbal
> attack on Annie.
>
> So, the question I've been wondering since I found out: why didn't
> Logan know? What good are heightened senses if you can't smell
> Magneto?

Logan isn't currently written as having a sense of smell that can
track things. <shrug>

Furthermore, why didn't Jean know if she is really using the
> Phoenix force?

Having the Phoenix force doesn't mean she's omniscient. Furthermore,
the Phoenix's motivation has yet to be seen.

BlakGard

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 2:15:40 AM9/12/03
to
>> Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
>>
>>
>> SPOILERS
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> So, how does New X-Men #146 add up with Xorn's previous appearances?
>> Let's take a look.
>>
>> Xorn's first line of dialogue - in English, even though nobody should be
>> able to telepathically teach him the language - is this:-
>>
>> "I could have built heaven on earth, if only they'd let me. I could
>> have laid the foundation stones of paradise here on earth." Entirely
>> consistent with Magneto's view of himself.
>
> I totally forgot about those lines.
>
>> Xorn's fake prison was called Feng Tu. When asked about this name, Emma
>> Frost replies "It's from mythology."
>
> Do we know what it means?

Basically: Hell, however, not the typical western version.

It was the afterlife place where the Yama Kings ruled. There were three bridges
to enter: a gold one, a silver one, and a wooden one. The gold was reserved for
gods and demigods; the silver was for the righteous and just, the wooden was
for the souls of the damned. You see, the wooden bridge was rickety and had
no railing; those who fell off were torn apart by snakes and dogs below.

-=[ The BlakGard ]=-
"Somewhere there's danger;
somewhere there's injustice,
and somewhere else the tea is getting cold!"

Steve-o Stonebraker

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 2:16:03 AM9/12/03
to
On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 21:35:17 -0400, lavar78 wrote:
> I can answer this one: he never heals the bird. The guy who leads
> Scott to Xorn says, "The bird was dead...I saw it die... But he took it
> in his hands and..." Then, we see a bird (which is glowing) hovering
> above Xorn's hands. In the next panel, it flies away. Anyone want to
> explain the glow? Paul?

Maybe somebody writing has *finally* realized that complete mastery of
electromagnetism includes the ability to create light?

--Steve-o
--
Steve Stonebraker | http://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~sstoneb/
sst...@yahoo.com | Transformers, astrophysics, comics, games, cartoons.

BlakGard

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 2:20:14 AM9/12/03
to
Paul O'Brien wrote:
> Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
>
> SPOILERS

[snip]

OMG! That's brilliant!

Janus

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 3:41:29 AM9/12/03
to
Steve-o Stonebraker <sst...@campbell.mps.ohio-state.edu> wrote in
news:slrnbm2p53....@campbell.mps.ohio-state.edu:

> On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 21:35:17 -0400, lavar78 wrote:
>> I can answer this one: he never heals the bird. The guy who leads
>> Scott to Xorn says, "The bird was dead...I saw it die... But he took
>> it in his hands and..." Then, we see a bird (which is glowing)
>> hovering above Xorn's hands. In the next panel, it flies away.
>> Anyone want to explain the glow? Paul?
>
> Maybe somebody writing has *finally* realized that complete mastery of
> electromagnetism includes the ability to create light?
>
> --Steve-o

Scott Lobdell showed this in Uncanny X-men 393, as Magneto battled
Dazzler. Come to think of it, could Morrison be wrapping up Magneto's
actions in that arc? It was the most recent battle between Magnus and
the X-men. That arc left too many unresolved plots, imo.

--
The head of the English department asked me, "Do you read any crap?"
And I said, no, in that insufferable high school manner, no doubt.
And he said, "You need to read more crap."
The point was to read more for entertainment and for fun.
GAIL SIMONE

ChuckLesnar420

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 3:51:13 AM9/12/03
to

"Paul O'Brien" <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:G0YblwNniPY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk...

> Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
>
>
> SPOILERS
>
>
That was an excellent recap guy. brings it all together. some of the things
i had thought of as a bit fishy and some I had missed entirely.


The Phoenix

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 4:15:43 AM9/12/03
to
From: Del D...@gaffe.demon.co.uk

>Paul O'Brien <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> writes
>>In message <110920031943198865%lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom>, lavar78
>><lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom> writes
>>
>>SPOILERS

>Additionally, perhaps since I don't have the actual issue, but when Esme
>left the school, people noticed that the car she left in had no driver.
>Some people thought then that it might be Magneto, but it was naturally
>dismissed out of hand.

And, as remiss as I am to mention this, Morrison's version of Sage's 'computer
mind' and what happens to it this issue...well, we all know the fun magnets can
have with a computer.

J
IRC: Foenix/Kinetix | Jason Bourgeois | Foe...@subreality.com
Unofficial torch-lighter of the Church of X-Books
Official Keeper of XBooks Future Histories and Rachel Summers Flame
"I'm me. That's all I need to be." ~ Brucha S. Meyers

Paul O'Brien

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 4:45:55 AM9/12/03
to
In message <bjr46u$1d7$1...@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au>, Graeme
<gra...@optushome.sodoff.com.au> writes

>
>Perhaps it's the elaborate nature of the deception and the relatively
>short interval between
[Redacted for spoilers]

It's only a short interval in terms of publishing schedule. In story
terms, that period includes a very, very lengthy gap where Cassandra
exposes the X-Men, the X-Men go public, the X-Men open up and staff at
least four X-Corp offices, and the school is opened with several hundred
pupils between issues.

Paul O'Brien

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 4:47:11 AM9/12/03
to
In message <bjr4lh$m9091$1...@ID-195503.news.uni-berlin.de>, Marc-Oliver
Frisch <Dersc...@hotmail.com> writes

SPOILERS

>This even explains why Xorn wasn't at hand to heal any wounded people
>over in UNCANNY X-MEN.

Yes, although I think it's regrettable that Austen was doing plots at
the same time that were practically guaranteed to make people ask why he
wasn't using Xorn.

Paul O'Brien

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 4:49:45 AM9/12/03
to
In message <3gj2mvohqod9uum5b...@4ax.com>, Jeremy
Henderson <hel...@tampabay.rr.com> writes

SPOILERS


>
>I'm now wondering whether he was somehow behind Cassandra Nova and the
>destruction of Genosha himself, though killing 16 million mutants
>would hardly be in character for him.

Well, he does describe them as "my" nano-Sentinels. Was he behind
Cassandra?

The Weapon Plus headquarters is his base, and none of the Weapon Plus
characters are susceptible to telepathic scans... was he behind that?

Weapon Plus and the U-Men were both, inexplicably, fronted by characters
called "Sublime" - despite having completely contrary objectives. Is it
the same guy? Are the U-Men a set-up as well, or at least a hoax
against their own members?

The answer is quite conceivably "yes" to all three. And if so, by my
reckoning that would make Magneto responsible for every single story in
Grant's run.

Paul O'Brien

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 5:02:27 AM9/12/03
to
One other thing worth mentioning for anyone still in doubt.

SPOILERS


Morrison's original proposal for New X-Men appears at the back of the
first hardback. According to posts on other boards, the section about
Xorn contains an entire paragraph which is blacked out and labelled
"Censored."

Pradera

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 5:18:11 AM9/12/03
to
On 12 wrz 2003, Steve-o Stonebraker <sst...@campbell.mps.ohio-state.edu>
scribbled loosely:

>> I can answer this one: he never heals the bird. The guy who leads
>> Scott to Xorn says, "The bird was dead...I saw it die... But he took
it
>> in his hands and..." Then, we see a bird (which is glowing) hovering
>> above Xorn's hands. In the next panel, it flies away. Anyone want to
>> explain the glow? Paul?
>
> Maybe somebody writing has *finally* realized that complete mastery of
> electromagnetism includes the ability to create light?

This would explain last panels of the annual, when Xorn takes of his
helmet and shines with his 'star-head' openly... it was something that
bugged me most about the X is M theory...

--
Pradera
---
'Ronald Reagan once said that a great leader is simply an
average man who surrounds himself with the best.
That's why I never vote Republican'
Scott Summers, 'Cyclops'

http://www.pradera-castle.prv.pl/
http://www.tolkien-gen.prv.pl/

Pradera

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 5:30:35 AM9/12/03
to
On 12 wrz 2003, Jeremy Henderson <hel...@tampabay.rr.com> scribbled
loosely:


>>
>>> Xorn's fake prison was called Feng Tu. When asked about this name,
>>> Emma Frost replies "It's from mythology."
>>>
>>Do we know what it means?
>
> Basically, in Chinese mythology it's the capital of Hell. Consistent
> with Xorn's cover story, but not really relevant to Magneto.

Well, it is a place where you would go after you _die_...

Bonehammer

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 6:15:07 AM9/12/03
to
"Graeme" <gra...@optushome.sodoff.com.au> wrote in message news:<bjr46u$1d7$1...@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au>...

> SPOILER SPACE
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks for the recap, Paul. Without having read #146 (waiting for the TPB,
> and all that), though, it still leaves me feeling somewhat dissatisfied for
> reasons I'm having trouble pinning down.

I thoroughly agree with you. My compliments to Paul for his
exceptional mining work.

> Still, congratulations must go to Morrison and Marvel (not to mention
> Claremont and Austen, who presumably were also aware of this) for keeping
> the secret safe for so long.

Actually, Claremont sort of poked us in the ribs with Beast's offhand
comment about Khan's "...*Magneto moment*. The most certain the death,
the more assured the upcoming resurrection."
IIRC Claremont had been denied the use of Xorn for his storyline, so
there *has* to have been communication going around between him and
Morrison...

Ciao
Bonehammer

lavar78

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 8:01:24 AM9/12/03
to
In article <887734a2.03091...@posting.google.com>, Scott
Dubin <scott...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> lavar78 <lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom> wrote in message
> news:<110920032116475323%lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom>...
>
> >
> > > Quentin's dead. Xorn was lying and the X-Men fell for it.
> > >
> > Yeah, that's probably it. More importantly, we fell for it. Xorn has
> > said a lot of questionable things that I've never really questioned
> > (well, until Austen beat me over the head with a
> > Xorn-is-more-than-he-seems stick). It's a credit to Morrison that
> > Xorn's slaughter of all those people set off less flags than his verbal
> > attack on Annie.
> >
> > So, the question I've been wondering since I found out: why didn't
> > Logan know? What good are heightened senses if you can't smell
> > Magneto?
>
> Logan isn't currently written as having a sense of smell that can
> track things. <shrug>
>

Come again? Is this something that happened in one of those numerous
Wolverine books? Besides, I don't think he needs to be able to track.
Shouldn't he realize Xorn has a familiar smell?

> Furthermore, why didn't Jean know if she is really using the
> > Phoenix force?
>
> Having the Phoenix force doesn't mean she's omniscient. Furthermore,
> the Phoenix's motivation has yet to be seen.

Phoenix is omniscient, but darn close to it. Still, point taken.

--
/lavar78

lavar78

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 8:04:05 AM9/12/03
to
In article <rih2mvstpq92krlqo...@4ax.com>, Jeremy
Henderson <hel...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 19:43:19 -0400, lavar78
> <lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom> spake unto us thusly:
>
> >In article <G0YblwNniPY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk>, Paul O'Brien
> ><pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
> >>
> >>
> >> SPOILERS
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >>
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> >>
> >> So, how does New X-Men #146 add up with Xorn's previous appearances?
> >> Let's take a look.
> >>
> >> Xorn's first line of dialogue - in English, even though nobody should be
> >> able to telepathically teach him the language - is this:-
> >>
> >> "I could have built heaven on earth, if only they'd let me. I could
> >> have laid the foundation stones of paradise here on earth." Entirely
> >> consistent with Magneto's view of himself.
> >>
> >I totally forgot about those lines.
> >
> >> Xorn's fake prison was called Feng Tu. When asked about this name, Emma
> >> Frost replies "It's from mythology."
> >>
> >Do we know what it means?
>
> Basically, in Chinese mythology it's the capital of Hell. Consistent
> with Xorn's cover story, but not really relevant to Magneto.

Thanks. I asked the question before I re-read the annual (where it's
explained).

--
/lavar78

lavar78

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 8:08:14 AM9/12/03
to
In article <Xns93F472F39BF77p...@130.133.1.4>, Pradera
<pra...@pradera.prv.pl> wrote:

> On 12 wrz 2003, Steve-o Stonebraker <sst...@campbell.mps.ohio-state.edu>
> scribbled loosely:
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> >> I can answer this one: he never heals the bird. The guy who leads
> >> Scott to Xorn says, "The bird was dead...I saw it die... But he took
> it
> >> in his hands and..." Then, we see a bird (which is glowing) hovering
> >> above Xorn's hands. In the next panel, it flies away. Anyone want to
> >> explain the glow? Paul?
> >
> > Maybe somebody writing has *finally* realized that complete mastery of
> > electromagnetism includes the ability to create light?
>
> This would explain last panels of the annual, when Xorn takes of his
> helmet and shines with his 'star-head' openly... it was something that
> bugged me most about the X is M theory...

It also explains why Xorn's head actually glows to much under the mask.
Good catch, Steve. I'm obviously slipping in my "old age."

--
/lavar78

Message has been deleted

Terrafamilia

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 10:24:55 AM9/12/03
to

Paul O'Brien wrote:

> In message <3gj2mvohqod9uum5b...@4ax.com>, Jeremy
> Henderson <hel...@tampabay.rr.com> writes
>
> SPOILERS
>
> >
> >I'm now wondering whether he was somehow behind Cassandra Nova and the
> >destruction of Genosha himself, though killing 16 million mutants
> >would hardly be in character for him.
>
> Well, he does describe them as "my" nano-Sentinels. Was he behind
> Cassandra?
>
> The Weapon Plus headquarters is his base, and none of the Weapon Plus
> characters are susceptible to telepathic scans... was he behind that?
>
> Weapon Plus and the U-Men were both, inexplicably, fronted by characters
> called "Sublime" - despite having completely contrary objectives. Is it
> the same guy? Are the U-Men a set-up as well, or at least a hoax
> against their own members?
>
> The answer is quite conceivably "yes" to all three. And if so, by my
> reckoning that would make Magneto responsible for every single story in
> Grant's run.

That would set Mags into the Red Skull role during Gru's run were the Skull
was behind or had his finger in most all the subversive organizations
circling around the Capt. A. universe. Interesting comparison that.

Ciao,

Terrafamilia

Steve-o Stonebraker

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 10:43:39 AM9/12/03
to
On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:26:47 GMT, Billy Bissette wrote:
> Paul O'Brien <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in
> news:G0YblwNniPY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk:

>
>> Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
>>
>>
>> SPOILERS
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>> Note also that Xorn establishes in that issue that Xavier can't read his
>> mind - which he attributed to the "blinding" effect of the sun in his
>> head. Presumably the mask actually served a double purpose of
>> disguising Magnus' identity and blocking telepathic scans.
>
> And that possibility was made evident to all readers when Quentin made
> his own helmet based off of Magneto's design.

Okay, here's my question. I have absolutely no memory of Magneto's
helment being anything besides ornamental until the movie came out and
said it blocked telepathy. ULTIMATE X-MEN does the same, as I recall, and
so does "X-Men: Evolution", I think. So... was this idea originated by
the movie and then retconned into the main continuity, or is it something
that was there in the comics and they just never talked about much?

Jim Cannon

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 11:22:45 AM9/12/03
to
Paul O'Brien <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<CBbKYgFpiYY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk>...

>
> SPOILERS


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> The answer is quite conceivably "yes" to all three. And if so, by my
> reckoning that would make Magneto responsible for every single story in
> Grant's run.

Which is utterly mad and utterly brilliant. I'd follow Grant Morrison
into the lungs of hell.

I'd also like to thank you for the recap, Paul. Very informative.

Jim Cannon

Paul O'Brien

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 11:33:22 AM9/12/03
to
One other point...

SPOILERS


If Magneto IS behind everything, I wonder whether this is going to lead
to some explanation of what the hell Emma Frost was doing in Genosha at
the beginning of Morrison's run. Sending her there seemed completely
pointless at the time... but it now has the effect of putting her under
Magneto's control and access for a lengthy period before she got
anywhere near the X-Men.

Jeremy Henderson

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 11:38:58 AM9/12/03
to
On 12 Sep 2003 14:43:39 GMT, Steve-o Stonebraker
<sst...@campbell.mps.ohio-state.edu> spake unto us thusly:

>On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:26:47 GMT, Billy Bissette wrote:
>> Paul O'Brien <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in
>> news:G0YblwNniPY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk:
>>
>>> Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
>>>
>>>
>>> SPOILERS
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> Note also that Xorn establishes in that issue that Xavier can't read his
>>> mind - which he attributed to the "blinding" effect of the sun in his
>>> head. Presumably the mask actually served a double purpose of
>>> disguising Magnus' identity and blocking telepathic scans.
>>
>> And that possibility was made evident to all readers when Quentin made
>> his own helmet based off of Magneto's design.
>
>Okay, here's my question. I have absolutely no memory of Magneto's
>helment being anything besides ornamental until the movie came out and
>said it blocked telepathy. ULTIMATE X-MEN does the same, as I recall, and
>so does "X-Men: Evolution", I think. So... was this idea originated by
>the movie and then retconned into the main continuity, or is it something
>that was there in the comics and they just never talked about much?

It's been that way as far back as I can remember, and is mentioned in
Magneto's OHOTMUDE entry. It also had a device built into it that gave
him low level telepathic abilities. In the X-Men vs. Avengers mini
from the 80's he used it to influence one of the judges at his trial
and get himself acquitted.

Shawn H

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 12:01:34 PM9/12/03
to
Paul O'Brien <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote:
: Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.


: SPOILERS


: The key was clearly set up to deceive telepaths. Did it also poison
: Emma's mind and put the idea of the affair into her head? Apparently
: so...

Paul, I think you should take your considerable analytical skills over to
Uncanny next and look at Lorna's seeming "possession" by Magneto. Of
course Austen, with his usual lack of subtlety, pretty much gives away the
ghost in the current issue, having Xorn be so clearly annoyed with
"racist" Annie. Thank Goodness I read New before Uncanny (which I had
luckily been putting off) this week.

There must be something to her behaviour since "Ambient Magnetic Fields"
that adds up, despite Austen's lurid dips into soapy sexual jealousy. At
least the current issue did seem to remember her role in FabNic's Dark
Seduction.

And what about Esme? You've left her completely out of your Riot
assessment, but surely she has some bearing on the Xorn situation as well,
even though she handily avoided the "special" class of the new Brotherhood
of Evil?

How nefarious of Grant. While Cassandra was rotting the team from within
as Xavier, Magnuss was subverting the team from within as Xorn. So the
ridiculously powered Xorn was only ever an assumed persona, and the
indifferently and unattractively powered special class are all ideally
more suited (even moreso than Quire's little riot act) for destruction
than heroism.

Evil.

Gleefully so.

Shawn

Shawn H

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 12:21:37 PM9/12/03
to
Paul O'Brien <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote:
: In message <bjr46u$1d7$1...@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au>, Graeme
: <gra...@optushome.sodoff.com.au> writes
:>
:>Perhaps it's the elaborate nature of the deception and the relatively
:>short interval between
: [Redacted for spoilers]

: It's only a short interval in terms of publishing schedule. In story
: terms, that period includes a very, very lengthy gap where Cassandra
: exposes the X-Men, the X-Men go public, the X-Men open up and staff at
: least four X-Corp offices, and the school is opened with several hundred
: pupils between issues.

Exactly. The gap between books is not always a month inside them.

shawn

Shawn H

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 12:16:25 PM9/12/03
to
Billy Bissette <bai...@coastalnet.com> wrote:
: Paul O'Brien <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in
: news:G0YblwNniPY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk:

:> Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
:>
:>
:> SPOILERS
:>
:>
:>
:>
:>
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:>
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:>
:> sort of mental control over the Special Class, by hijacking Martha's
:> telepathy. ("Martha says we have to do what Mister Xorn says!",
:> according to Ernst. Martha, of course, is hooked up to a machine and
:> therefore at Magneto's mercy...)

: I don't think it is mental control via Martha. I think it is just
: control. Most of the Special Class likely feel themselves to have bonded
: with Xorn, and are thus willing to do what he says. Martha herself is
: quite likely not the happiest camper in existence, and he likely could
: think the proper thoughts towards her to get her on his side.

I think it likely that Martha is aiding Mags of her own free will. She was
sort of collaborating with the humanimals or whatever those guys were, and
may very well feel at this point that mutants should rule humans for the
betterment of all parties. I feel sorry for her little lackey/interpreter,
though.

: Angel is likely the only person who might knowingly go against Xorn.
: But Angel knows the 'secret' from the camping trip. Angel knows that if
: Xorn sees a need to do it, he will kill plenty of people fast, and will
: use death as a tool. He has Angel under his control because she likely
: fears him from that time onwards.

It could be more of a deliberate decision than just a fearful one, though.
She never accepted Emma's attitude or influence, seeing her apparently as
deluded for her stance as good girl with bad girl attitude. She only
helped the Cuckoos against the Imperial Guard out of self-preservation and
practicality. And she now has a mutant brood that the world will revile to
protect; she may see Mags as her best bet to keep her children safe.

:> The Beak, one of the Special Class under Xorn's influence, offers
:> himself as the murderer but botches the confession. Is Magneto trying
:> to throw the investigators off the scent?

: Easier to believe Beak was simply trying to protect Angel, and did so
: because of her.

Beak honestly loves Angel. And his kiddies. Mags has his new Wanda and
Pietro, tied perhaps more inextricably to him than his own kids ever were.

Shawn

Shawn H

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 12:19:49 PM9/12/03
to
Steve-o Stonebraker <sst...@campbell.mps.ohio-state.edu> wrote:

: On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:26:47 GMT, Billy Bissette wrote:
:> Paul O'Brien <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in
:> news:G0YblwNniPY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk:
:>
:>> Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
:>>
:>>
:>> SPOILERS
:>>
:>>
:>>
:>>
:>>
:>>
:>>
:>>
:>>
:>>
:>>
:>>
:>>
:>>
:>>
:>>
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:>>
:>>
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:>>
:>>
:>>
:>>
:>>
:>> Note also that Xorn establishes in that issue that Xavier can't read his
:>> mind - which he attributed to the "blinding" effect of the sun in his
:>> head. Presumably the mask actually served a double purpose of
:>> disguising Magnus' identity and blocking telepathic scans.
:>
:> And that possibility was made evident to all readers when Quentin made
:> his own helmet based off of Magneto's design.

: Okay, here's my question. I have absolutely no memory of Magneto's
: helment being anything besides ornamental until the movie came out and
: said it blocked telepathy. ULTIMATE X-MEN does the same, as I recall, and
: so does "X-Men: Evolution", I think. So... was this idea originated by
: the movie and then retconned into the main continuity, or is it something
: that was there in the comics and they just never talked about much?

Well, I do know it definitely worked that way for Juggernaut. But the
X-men did strive to remove his helmet in his volcanic base, before getting
lost in the Savage Land.

Shawn

Shawn H

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 12:07:43 PM9/12/03
to
lavar78 <lav...@nospam.hotmaildotcom> wrote:
: In article <G0YblwNniPY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk>, Paul O'Brien
: <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote:

:> Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
:>
:>
:> SPOILERS
:>
:>
:>
:>
:>
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:>
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:> When Xorn reveals that the spacecraft is about to blow up, his dialogue
:> is (emphasis added): "This superdestroyer machine is about to commit
:> suicide... I can hear its ELECTROMAGNETIC alarms."
:>
: I'm ashamed that didn't set off *any* flags.

But why should it; Magneto's cover was to impersonate someone with very
similar powers, just so he could still use his when needed.

:> Xorn then tells Angel that "this will be our secret." But why did Xorn
:> want to keep it secret? Now we know.
:>
: Wow. I think I was blinded by my disdain for Xorn.

Whereas I thought he was just being "hardcore X-man" but trying to assuage
the worries of the youngsters.

Shawn

Shawn H

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 12:26:16 PM9/12/03
to
Scott Dubin <scott...@yahoo.com> wrote:
: Paul O'Brien <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<G0YblwNniPY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk>...
:> 4. TELEPATHIC ADULTERY. Hold on... telepathic adultery? Magneto was
:> responsible for Scott and Emma's relationship? Ludicrous, I hear you
:> cry!
:>
:> But no.
:>
:> so...

: I don't buy this one. It's before Jean became the Phoenix again, so
: there'd be no real reason to target Cyclops or Jean specifically.
: Furthermore, it's completely in character for Emma to try to seduce
: Scott, it's not like she was acting strangely. Also, it's just silly.

Phoenix isn't the only threat to Mags. He takes ALL mutants, of whatever
power levels, very seriously. Scott and Jean, w/Xavier, represent the core
of the opposition to his dream, and always have. Best to keep the enemy
divided and conquered.

: Also, if her mind was really poisoned, wouldn't Jean have known as a
: result of the whole mental rape bit?

Maybe differentiating between all the muck going on in there wasn't what
she was focusing on. She very specifically wanted a motivation for Emma's
behaviour, but she expected it to be in personal life, not from an outside
force.

Shawn

Shawn H

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 12:18:26 PM9/12/03
to
Janus <janus...@yahoo.com> wrote:

:> Maybe somebody writing has *finally* realized that complete mastery of


:> electromagnetism includes the ability to create light?

: Scott Lobdell showed this in Uncanny X-men 393, as Magneto battled


: Dazzler. Come to think of it, could Morrison be wrapping up Magneto's
: actions in that arc? It was the most recent battle between Magnus and
: the X-men. That arc left too many unresolved plots, imo.

Well, he definitely is, or was that Austen in Uncanny. Someone was talking
this month about attempts to heal Mags' severed spine after the events of
that arc.

shawn

Jim Connick

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Sep 12, 2003, 12:45:41 PM9/12/03
to

"Paul O'Brien" <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:G0YblwNniPY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk...
: Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
:
:
: SPOILERS
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
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:
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:
:
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:
: So, how does New X-Men #146 add up with Xorn's previous appearances?

: Let's take a look.
<snip good stuff>
: Xorn was, presumably, the man who pointed a gun at Sage's back. She
: described him as male and "at least six foot two, possibly taller".
: According to the Official Handbook, Magneto's height is... six foot two.

Xorn also has 6'2 listed as his official height, in case anyone was
wondering.
Excellent work Paul.

Paul O'Brien

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 12:58:00 PM9/12/03
to
In message <bjsqku$t1g$1...@news.fas.harvard.edu>, Shawn H
<shill...@fas.harvard.edu> writes

>
>Paul, I think you should take your considerable analytical skills over
>to Uncanny next and look at Lorna's seeming "possession" by Magneto.

It occurred to me a while back that a very obvious explanation for
Lorna's behaviour would be possession by Magneto's ghost after her phase
of insanity in Genosha.

Of course, none of this alters the fact that the character as written by
Austen is painfully boring.

Jim Connick

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 1:22:47 PM9/12/03
to

"Paul O'Brien" <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:SiZ+wQIjuYY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk...
: One other thing worth mentioning for anyone still in doubt.

:
: SPOILERS
:
:
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: Morrison's original proposal for New X-Men appears at the back of the
: first hardback. According to posts on other boards, the section about
: Xorn contains an entire paragraph which is blacked out and labelled
: "Censored."

From the Morrison Manifesto, immediatly preceeding the blacked out censored
section :
"Who knows what lies beneath the mask of Experiment X? A secret connected to
the X-Men's past? Or future? Will the self styled Man From Room X turn out
to be hiding more than just his face? And will Wolverine's distrust be
justified?"

Stefan

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 1:44:24 PM9/12/03
to
"lavar78" <lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom> wrote in message
news:120920030801241706%lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom...

> In article <887734a2.03091...@posting.google.com>, Scott
> Dubin <scott...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > lavar78 <lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom> wrote in message
> > news:<110920032116475323%lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom>...
> >
> > >
> > > > Quentin's dead. Xorn was lying and the X-Men fell for it.
> > > >
> > > Yeah, that's probably it. More importantly, we fell for it. Xorn has
> > > said a lot of questionable things that I've never really questioned
> > > (well, until Austen beat me over the head with a
> > > Xorn-is-more-than-he-seems stick). It's a credit to Morrison that
> > > Xorn's slaughter of all those people set off less flags than his
verbal
> > > attack on Annie.
> > >
> > > So, the question I've been wondering since I found out: why didn't
> > > Logan know? What good are heightened senses if you can't smell
> > > Magneto?
> >
> > Logan isn't currently written as having a sense of smell that can
> > track things. <shrug>
> >
> Come again? Is this something that happened in one of those numerous
> Wolverine books? Besides, I don't think he needs to be able to track.
> Shouldn't he realize Xorn has a familiar smell?
>


Maybe he was bathing in vinegar

Stefan


Scott Dubin

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 2:29:07 PM9/12/03
to
lavar78 <lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom> wrote in message news:<120920030801241706%lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom>...

> In article <887734a2.03091...@posting.google.com>, Scott
> Dubin <scott...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > lavar78 <lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom> wrote in message
> > news:<110920032116475323%lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom>...
> >
> > >
> > > > Quentin's dead. Xorn was lying and the X-Men fell for it.
> > > >
> > > Yeah, that's probably it. More importantly, we fell for it. Xorn has
> > > said a lot of questionable things that I've never really questioned
> > > (well, until Austen beat me over the head with a
> > > Xorn-is-more-than-he-seems stick). It's a credit to Morrison that
> > > Xorn's slaughter of all those people set off less flags than his verbal
> > > attack on Annie.
> > >
> > > So, the question I've been wondering since I found out: why didn't
> > > Logan know? What good are heightened senses if you can't smell
> > > Magneto?
> >
> > Logan isn't currently written as having a sense of smell that can
> > track things. <shrug>
> >
> Come again? Is this something that happened in one of those numerous
> Wolverine books?

No, I just mean Morrison hasn't written Wolverine as using his sense
of smell once, and I don't think Rucka has either.

Sorted magAZine

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 2:41:09 PM9/12/03
to

"lavar78" <lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom> wrote in message
news:120920030801241706%lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom...

> In article <887734a2.03091...@posting.google.com>, Scott
> Dubin <scott...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > lavar78 <lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom> wrote in message
> > news:<110920032116475323%lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom>...
> >
> > >
> > > > Quentin's dead. Xorn was lying and the X-Men fell for it.
> > > >
> > > Yeah, that's probably it. More importantly, we fell for it. Xorn has
> > > said a lot of questionable things that I've never really questioned
> > > (well, until Austen beat me over the head with a
> > > Xorn-is-more-than-he-seems stick). It's a credit to Morrison that
> > > Xorn's slaughter of all those people set off less flags than his verbal
> > > attack on Annie.
> > >
> > > So, the question I've been wondering since I found out: why didn't
> > > Logan know? What good are heightened senses if you can't smell
> > > Magneto?
> >
> > Logan isn't currently written as having a sense of smell that can
> > track things. <shrug>
> >
> Come again? Is this something that happened in one of those numerous
> Wolverine books? Besides, I don't think he needs to be able to track.
> Shouldn't he realize Xorn has a familiar smell?
>
He's a former team-mate, he'd know ways to hide himself from Logan's senses.

> > Furthermore, why didn't Jean know if she is really using the
> > > Phoenix force?
> >
> > Having the Phoenix force doesn't mean she's omniscient. Furthermore,
> > the Phoenix's motivation has yet to be seen.
>
> Phoenix is omniscient, but darn close to it. Still, point taken.
>

I'd say Phoenix has the potential to be omniscient, but to remain grounded has
to block most of that out (as Jean is used to doing anyway with her
telepathy).

D.


Sorted magAZine

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Sep 12, 2003, 2:57:52 PM9/12/03
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"Shawn H" <shill...@fas.harvard.edu> wrote in message
news:bjss38$t1g$7...@news.fas.harvard.edu...
Nah, this is the one bit I don't buy, Emma's been written like she actually
cares about Scott. Now, who knows what off-panel conversations Xorn may have
had with all those involved.

D.


Sorted magAZine

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Sep 12, 2003, 3:17:10 PM9/12/03
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"Bonehammer" <boneha...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c22e31f9.03091...@posting.google.com...
Of course there is, read half way down this page (Grant's rarely updated
column on his website):
http://www.grant-morrison.com/column.htm
There seems to be a running joke about Chris and Grant's other half.

D.


Brian Doyle

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Sep 12, 2003, 3:19:24 PM9/12/03
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"Paul O'Brien" <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:CBbKYgFpiYY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk...

> In message <3gj2mvohqod9uum5b...@4ax.com>, Jeremy
> Henderson <hel...@tampabay.rr.com> writes
>
> SPOILERS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> >I'm now wondering whether he was somehow behind Cassandra Nova and the
> >destruction of Genosha himself, though killing 16 million mutants
> >would hardly be in character for him.
>
> Well, he does describe them as "my" nano-Sentinels. Was he behind
> Cassandra?

I think it more likely he means he's reprogrammed them, so they no longer
function for Cassandra. They're under his control, so they're his _now_

> The answer is quite conceivably "yes" to all three. And if so, by my
> reckoning that would make Magneto responsible for every single story in
> Grant's run.

Intruiging idea, and just the sort of thing he'd pull too.


Shawn H

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Sep 12, 2003, 3:02:19 PM9/12/03
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Sorted magAZine <edi...@nospamsortedmagazine.com> wrote:

: "Shawn H" <shill...@fas.harvard.edu> wrote in message


: news:bjss38$t1g$7...@news.fas.harvard.edu...
:> Scott Dubin <scott...@yahoo.com> wrote:
:> : Paul O'Brien <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
: news:<G0YblwNniPY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk>...
:> :> 4. TELEPATHIC ADULTERY. Hold on... telepathic adultery? Magneto was
:> :> responsible for Scott and Emma's relationship? Ludicrous, I hear you
:> :> cry!
:> :>
:> :> But no.
:> :>
:> :> so...

:> Maybe differentiating between all the muck going on in there wasn't what


:> she was focusing on. She very specifically wanted a motivation for Emma's
:> behaviour, but she expected it to be in personal life, not from an outside
:> force.
:>
: Nah, this is the one bit I don't buy, Emma's been written like she actually
: cares about Scott. Now, who knows what off-panel conversations Xorn may have
: had with all those involved.

Well, I don't even remember the psychic key, though Paul's analysis is
very convincing. I admit it's something you'd expect someone like Jean or
Charles (or Emma herself) to be able to do, but not something that would
be easy to do TO Emma. I do think the attraction for Scott was there; but
maybe the willingness to do it, to play with fire, was the inhibition that
Magneto somehow let down? IE, he didn't reprogram her brain, he just gave
her a very strong nudge in one direction.

Shawn


Stranger

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Sep 12, 2003, 8:47:57 PM9/12/03
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"Shawn H" <shill...@fas.harvard.edu> wrote in message
news:bjsr0f$t1g$2...@news.fas.harvard.edu...

> :> When Xorn reveals that the spacecraft is about to blow up, his dialogue
> :> is (emphasis added): "This superdestroyer machine is about to commit
> :> suicide... I can hear its ELECTROMAGNETIC alarms."
> :>
> : I'm ashamed that didn't set off *any* flags.
>
> But why should it; Magneto's cover was to impersonate someone with very
> similar powers, just so he could still use his when needed.


I also think that since Morrison tends to have his characters sprout out a
lot of gobbly-gook, having Xorn say something about "hearing electromagnetic
alarms" sounds just like all the other weird-ass sayings in that storyline.

--
Stranger: Impulse's #1 Fan
AKA Steely Hardcore Dan Nguyen


Patrick McClue

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Sep 12, 2003, 9:09:43 PM9/12/03