REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 14 April 2002
Paul O'Brien
THE X-AXIS - 14 April 2002
http://www.esoterica.demon.co.uk
================================
Go to http://www.egroups.com/group/x-axis-reviews and click on
"subscribe" to receive the X-Axis by e-mail every week.
------------
This week:
CABLE #104 - [untitled]
by David Tischman and Igor Kordey
X-FACTOR #1 - "The Mountaintop, part 1: The Player"
by Jeff Jensen and Arthur Ranson
X-TREME X-MEN #12 - "Second Front!"
by Chris Claremont and Salvador Larroca
DUMPED
by Andi Watson
------------
David Tischman ends his run on CABLE this month, although in
fact the credits for this issue describe it as being written
by "Igor Kordey with David Tischman", which makes it sound
like he's already halfway out of the door. Despite some
initially favourable reaction, this has been the most notably
unsuccessful of the X-books relaunches, sending the book
plunging in sales compared with Robert Weinberg's run.
Next month, Darko Macan will take over as writer (making this
the first Marvel comic by an entirely eastern European
writer/artist team, unless I'm very much mistaken). From
what I've seen of his writing, I don't anticipate a major
change in direction, but I would expect to more focussed
storylines which don't flood the plot with undeveloped minor
characters.
In the meantime, we have this final issue to wrap up the
cloned Albanians plotline, which started off with a nice idea
(the sheer lunacy of ethnic obsessions taken to their insane
conclusion by mass cloning of replacement populations), but
never really managed to add a great deal to it beyond that
initial concept.
We kick off the issue with a commemoration of 200 days since
the World Trade Center attacks, which makes for a nice piece
of artwork, but I'm damned if I can see what the relevance to
the plot is meant to be. (By the way, "War on Terror" is not
a trademark, guys. You don't have to change it to "Fear War".)
The plot sets about getting everyone into the Albanian cloning
centre, so that they can all ultimately get blown up aside
from Cable and Viktoria, who escape. Goldberg sits around
on the sidelines manipulating things and never gets all that
involved; equally, Cable never truly engages with any other
characters aside from Viktoria. My guess would be that
Tischman originally intended this arc to introduce Goldberg
with a view to building to a confrontation between him and
Cable down the line, but presumably that's out on its ear
following the change of writer. I can't say this story gives
me any particular desire to see that storyline, in any event -
Goldberg just isn't a very interesting character. He's a
generic conspiracy villain, nothing more rounded.
While all this is going on, we have some subplots about the
clones which never interact with anything else either. The
creators seem awfully keen to encourage us to contemplate
how the clones must feel about things, but since the entire
arc is premised on ludicrous B-movie science, the answer is
"I don't give a toss" even before we get onto the fact that
they're all mad anyway.
Genre convention or not, I simply don't accept the proposition
that clones retain the memories of their "parents" up to the
point of death. Even the story itself seems hazy on the
whole idea. Yacoubi and Gani both seem clear enough that all
the clones have retained these memories, yet Gani seems
surprised to find out that the clone of Ana has them too, and
through some unexplained means, Samir has somehow managed to
be a clone for the entire storyline without knowing it. How
does that work, exactly?
Somewhere in there the story is trying to raise questions
about individuality and identity which, I suppose, might
charitably be viewed as intersecting with the racial identity
theme of the main storyline. But since none of the characters
are given enough space to be fleshed out as characters, let
alone likeable ones, it's hard to care much either way when
they all get blown up.
As with the last arc, since the creators can't show us Cable
transforming the social vista of an entire country without
straining credibility too far, his token victory is to win
over another adherent, this time in the form of Viktoria.
It doesn't work as well as it did with the kids in Peru, since
we were shown that the kids had taken an interest in the
philosophy in the course of the storyline. Viktoria, in
contrast, seems to suddenly develop an interest three pages
from the end for no very clear reason.
I want to like this story since the themes are quite promising,
but unfortunately, the plot is too overloaded and complex to
actually address the themes properly, let alone develop
its characters. On the plus side, the art in this issue is
excellent, and a welcome reminder of what Igor Kordey is
capable of, coming after his awkward rush job on New X-Men
#124.
Tischman had the right general idea with his approach to this
book, but the actual storylines have landed frustratingly
short of the mark.
Rating: C+
------------
X-FACTOR, on the other hand, is a pleasant surprise.
Ignore the title, which is presumably just being reused to
preserve the trademark, since it has nothing to do with the
actual book. This one did not sound very promising when it
was first solicited - yet another X-Men spin-off miniseries
with a little-known creative team. Marvel had a stab at the
"teaser campaign" approach with this, but the fact is, after
the X-Men Icons miniseries, they cannot seriously expect
anyone to get worked up at the prospect of another X-books
miniseries. The track record of quality isn't good enough.
But this is a bit more like it. In fact, the creators aren't
unknown - Jeff Jensen has just been away from comics for a
while, and Arthur Ranson has been working in the UK for ages.
This is a nicely done book, which actually has a clear idea
of why it exists. If all the X-books miniseries were this
good, we'd actually welcome them.
Despite significant cameo appearances by Scott and Jean, and
an allusion to Morrison's U-Men concept (played quite plausibly
this time round), this is a free-standing book. The premise
is straightforward - this is a book about two FBI officers
who have been assigned to investigate crimes against mutants,
largely as a public relations exercise. Both Kearse and Gray
are decidedly ambivolent about the whole mutant concept,
with Kearse in particular written as having an intense
repressed hatred of mutants. But both set about their jobs
professionally enough; what we have here, in other words, is
an X-books police procedural.
You know how Brotherhood wanted to create a convincing
ground level mutant rights movement, and failed dismally?
Well, this issue achieves more in one issue than that book
managed in its whole run, giving us a credibly half-witted
anti-mutant terrorist group, a wannabe mutant terrorist, and
an exploitative film-maker trying to leech off the back of
the mutants the way he'd done in the seventies with his
blaxploitation movies.
The format for this miniseries is apparently going to be
three self-contained stories, and a fourth issue wrapping up
an overall arc contained in subplots. That gives Jensen and
Ranson an awful lot of plot to get through in this issue, but
they manage it impressively. It means we get a lot of pages
packed solid with panels, but the pacing is solid, and the
artwork is good quality storytelling throughout. There's
nothing flashy about it, but only in the sense that it's
busy telling the story rather than doing pin-up art. Which is
precisely the approach this book calls for. Paul Mounts'
colouring job complements the art and helps the atmosphere
tremendously.
This is a good issue, which is not something I had been
expecting to say about it. Well worth picking up.
Rating: A-
------------
X-TREME X-MEN rounds off its first year, marking twelve
consecutive issues of its protagonists Not Looking For The
Diaries. Look, call me impatient, but a year into the book,
shouldn't we have seen at least ONE story which actually has
a bearing on the supposed premise of the book? I know
Claremont loves his dangling plots, but aren't the diaries
meant to be the focus of the book?
Anyhow, onto the story. The basic story here is that the
charismatic warlord Khan has kidnapped Storm and decided that
he's going to try to conquer the world and win her as his
wife. And, uh, that's pretty much your lot. We're three
issues into this arc with no end in sight, and if you ask me,
it's dragging.
A curious opening sequence is apparently designed to sell us
on the huge scale of Khan's base. What we get in practice is
an impenetrable double splash page from Larroca which doesn't
really look like anything much. I have a distinct feeling
that Larroca intended this spread to be viewed at a 90 degree
angle, where it at least makes some kind of visual sense, but
for some reason it's been lettered in the normal orientation.
After this gloriously uninformative establishing shot, we get
on to the plot, as Khan uses a handy plot device to get his
lead thug Shaitan to impersonate Storm, presumably so that
he can lead the X-Men astray. Shaitan not unreasonably
protests that this is an extraordinarily silly plot, and that
he'd be much better off as a big strong chap rather than a
transsexual spy. Got to say, I'm with Shaitan on this one.
Khan's got a thousand soldiers standing right next to him,
doesn't he have anyone who actually specialises in this kind
of thing, rather than wasting a perfectly good superhuman on
an amateur drag job?
In any event, Khan proceeds to try and romance Storm, who
plays along for all the obvious reasons. Claremont is
clearly trying to sell Khan as a somewhat loveable chap, but
I don't buy it. The guy conquers dimensions. The fact that
he appreciates sculpture and likes riding horses does make
him a romantic figure, and Claremont seems oblivious to the
lunacy of having a character whose principal aim is to
conquer dimensions as their absolute ruler solemnly explaining
that he is not a tyrant.
Back on Earth, the X-Men fight people and advance the plot.
Oh no, hold on, they don't advance the plot at all, although
Lifeguard gets an "I'm LIFEGUARD" scene so that we can all
grind our teeth in irritation. Slipstream runs through the
same rookie dialogue that Thunderbird used to do every issue,
Sage looks a bit sinister, and Rogue demonstrates her tiresome
plot-device powers. With the possible exception of the Sage
subplot, none of it is desperately interesting.
Not good.
Rating: C-
------------
DUMPED is a one-shot from the excellent Andi Watson. According
to the blurb on the back cover, this is "an original work of
graphic literature" produced in association with the Big
Torino 2002 arts festival and the International Biennial of
Young Arts. Good for them, but I feel obliged to point out
that this is not an elitist piece of work aimed at people
who sit around in cafes comparing beards. You will like this
book. You should buy it.
This is a love story. It refers in passing to Watson's
equally good miniseries Breakfast After Noon, but it's not a
sequel - the main characters are new. Debs and Binny are
both collectors of discarded possessions, in different senses.
Debs runs a vintage clothing store which started off as an
enthusiasm and is now becoming a bit of a grind. Binny, on
the other hand, has the downright eccentric hobby of collecting
books which have been annotated and otherwise mutilated by
their previous owners.
Trust me, this all reads a lot more naturally than I'm making
it sound.
It's a story about the nature of our attachment to material
possessions, and also a neatly told love story which steers
far enough from the genre cliches to avoid being overly
obvious. As always, Watson's approach is low key, and this
is very much a character piece rather than a plot-driven
affair. But they're characters it's easy to identify with,
and that's the crucial thing.
Watson's artwork is as minimal as ever, and he obviously
subscribes to the school of thought that every line should
serve a purpose. And he has the talent to pull it off -
his comics aren't lacking in detail, they're simply focusing
on the details that matter rather than distracting you with
clutter.
Dumped is another great piece of work from this consistently
impressive creator, and well worth picking up if you're not
familiar with his work. (It's six dollars for fifty three
pages, if you're wondering, which makes it better value than
anything else I'm reviewing this week.) Go on, buy a copy.
Rating: A+
------------
Also this week:
AVENGERS #52 - Ah, the end is in sight. Plotlines start
drawing together as the big fightback against Kang begins.
To be honest, by this stage I'm just relieved to see this arc
finally drawing to a close, but this is a decent enough issue
on its merits, even if the final page is decidedly corny. B-
BATGIRL #27 - Oh joy, another sodding crossover. This is
apparently part five of Bruce Wayne: Fugitive, but it's
actually a character piece for Batgirl and Spoiler, and pretty
decent on that level. There's some awkward guest artwork here,
though, which drags the book down a notch. Still, if the
regular artist is going to skip issues, at least he's skipping
the crossovers. B-
BLACK PANTHER #43 - Halfway through "Enemy of the State II",
and the maze of plot threads is starting to resolve into a
single plot. To be honest, King Solomon's Frogs are a little
bit too corny for my tastes, and sit uneasily next to the
political themes of the rest of the storyline, but Priest
seems pretty clearly aware of that, so I'm giving him the
benefit of the doubt. B+
FANTASTIC FOUR #54 - A story of two halves, as the rather
boring Hidden Ones plot gets revealed, while Dr Doom helps
tie up some subplots before Carlos Pacheco leaves as writer.
Bit of a mixed bag. It's a 100-page giant, by the way, but
quite honestly, I lack the interest in the Silver Age to slog
through this stuff. C
GREEN ARROW #13 - The beginning of a new storyline, introducing
an onomatopaeia-themed villain. Well, it's novel. A slightly
odd clash of tones between goofy Silver Age weirdness and
more modern characterisation and violence, and thus far I'm
not wholly convinced by the concept of this villain. Not the
strongest issue of this series, but still quite good. B
IRON MAN #53 - Iron Man fights drug dealers, a monk in Nepal
or some such place does monk stuff, and a character I'm
apparently supposed to recognise appears out of the blue on
the final page for a cliffhanger that just leaves me confused
as much as anything else. Bit of a mess, to be honest. C+
POWER COMPANY #3 - As you might perhaps have anticipated, the
Power Company fight back and defeat the villain, and
Skyrocket agrees to join the team. There are a couple of
interesting character moments in here, but ultimately this
book isn't going anywhere unexpected. It's all... well, a
little predictable. B-
SANDMAN PRESENTS: THE THESSALIAD #4 - Thessaly takes revenge
on the death gods in thoroughly nasty ways in a story which
seems to be angling for a sequel on the last page. Quite
entertaining, and the art is excellent, but it does leave
me feeling a little dissatisfied. I was hoping for something
a little deeper, I suppose. B-
SUICIDE SQUAD #8 - The art still isn't quite working for me,
though it's getting better, and I suspect the storytelling
is more oblique than it really needs to be. But there's
some great ideas in here which repay the effort of paying
the close attention required. Of course, this book is
probably on the fast track to cancellation, largely because
its narrative is just too oblique for its own good. Even so,
the book is really starting to grow on me. B+
TASKMASTER #3 - More over the top violence as Udon's action
movie continues. The character designs for Sandi and Sunset
Bain are way too similar, but that aside, this has been a
successful series. Good entertainment, which is what it's
mean to be. B+
THOR #48 - This is heading further back into conventional
territory with every issue, and I'm starting to get thoroughly
depressed about this arc. The second Thor on Earth is now
being written as the lead character, and what with this being
a five part storyline ending in issue #50, I sense a reset
looming on the horizon for the anniversary. Not awful, but
disappointingly obvious. C+
TRANSMETROPOLITAN #55 - Nominally the beginning of a new
story arc, although really it's just the next act of the
same plot from last month. Having broken the story that the
President was involved in a sex scandal, Spider and co make
a break for it while the secret service moves in. Cue the
lengthy chase sequence. As Ellis freely acknowledges, by
this stage he's writing the book primarily with the trade
paperback in mind, which is understandable insofar as that's
the format that's likely to be in print for some time to
come. But it does result in issues like this, where not a
great deal happens, albeit with great style. B
ULTIMATE MARVEL TEAM-UP #15 - Spider-Man stumbles upon
Shang-Chi working in a store in Chinatown, and he kind of stands
around being superfluous while Shang-Chi does his thing. I'm
not convinced that comics are the best medium for martial arts
stories, which rely so heavily on motion, and while Rick Mays
has a fair try at convincing me, I still think cinema does it
better. The story is interspersed with some lovely brush
artwork from Andy Lee illustrating a supposed Chinese myth
which is just too wildly convenient for words. B+
------------
Next week... erm, just New X-Men #125, which was originally
going to be the end of the Imperial storyline, but isn't any
more, because Morrison decided it needed another issue.
There's also a Mutant X comic, but Marvel don't class that as
an X-book for legal reasons, and I'm happy to take the cue
from them and not spend my money on it.
Likely contenders to fill up the vacant review spots would
seem to be the new Black Widow miniseries from the Max imprint,
and DC's Midnight Mass #1. There's also a Queen & Country
trade paperback out next week, by the way. I've already
got the issues, but if you haven't, buy the trade. It's a
great book.
That leaves a late books list comprising Ultimate X-Men #17
(originally due next week) and Origin #6 (due back in January,
but there you go).
Oh, and there's a new Article 10 column at Ninth Art which will
be up on Monday - http://www.ninthart.com.
Paul O'Brien
THE X-AXIS REVIEWS - http://www.esoterica.demon.co.uk
ARTICLE 10 - http://www.ninthart.com
Brevity is the sister of talent.
Paul O'Brien
Jeremy Henderson
<pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> rattled off:
>Next month, Darko Macan will take over as writer (making this
>the first Marvel comic by an entirely eastern European
>writer/artist team, unless I'm very much mistaken).
Well, the first ongoing title perhaps, but the Captain America: Dead
Man Running mini is by Macan and Daniel Zezelj, who's Croatian, I
believe.
______________________________________________________
Boring stories by a boring man can be found at
http://www.storymania.com/cgibin/sm2/smshowauthorbox.cgi?page=1&author=HendersonJL
Windbag1000
>consecutive issues of its protagonists Not Looking For The
>Diaries.
Okay, obviously the things you hate about Claremont's XXM are the things I
enjoy most, but how can you rate this book so low (C-) when it's drawn so
incredibly. Apart from your beefs about the establishing shot, the renderings
of all characters have to earn this book at least a B. Doesn't art count for
anything in your grade system?
The fact that the diaries have been ignored escapes me. It's not the plot of
the book, it's the condition the team exists under while exploring the plot.
It was mentioned heavily in the annual and in the gambit issues (not recalling
off hand what those were).
>After this gloriously uninformative establishing shot, we get
>on to the plot,
Incidentally, criticizing the art as uninformative ignores Claremont's
narration which does a great deal to establish the situation in which Kahn
rules. The narration is very helpful to readers like myself who see comics as
a literary medium as well as an artisitic one. Captions throughout the book
make it more interesting to me especially when Claremont does it as well as he
did in XXM 12.
> Claremont is
>clearly trying to sell Khan as a somewhat loveable chap, but
>I don't buy it.
I don't think he was saying he's lovable. I think he's simply exploring the
possibility that there is more than one dimension (apparent pun intended) to
the villain this time around. My only gripe about Kahn is that he's almost
identical to Kang except instead of conquering time, Kahn conquers dimensions.
This wouldn't be so bad if Kang weren't currently involved in the endless arc
over in Avengers. His relationship with Storm does make a nice difference and
I'm curious about where this might go and where Slipstream might fit in with
its resolution.
>Back on Earth, the X-Men fight people and advance the plot.
>Oh no, hold on, they don't advance the plot at all,
Though you're right, I think you're missing the point. This book is trying to
shape the characters in subtle. As you imply at the end of your review, the
Sage subplot is interesting. Has she shaped Rogue's powers to make her more
advanced as she did when jumpstarting Slipstreams latent mutant talents? There
is a lot going on here to enjoy and Claremont uses enough words to remind
readers who haven't read the previous issue the day before, exactly what the
hell is going on.
Great stuff. Lots of differences between the characters and those differences
are what creates the subplots. Excellent writing. If you put any other
writer's name on it, it would be considered a lot more of an achievement, but
for some reason every month people expect Claremont to be a different writer
than he's always been. This is the same style that turned on millions of X-men
fans, only he's doing it on a larger scale.
>AVENGERS #52 - Ah, the end is in sight. Plotlines start
>drawing together as the big fightback against Kang begins.
>To be honest, by this stage I'm just relieved to see this arc
>finally drawing to a close, but this is a decent enough issue
>on its merits, even if the final page is decidedly corny. B-
>
Ugh. This issue was terrible and the arc really has been a waste since 50.
I'd rather have had six individual arcs in the space of this year-long yawner.
Reminds me of Walt Simonson's run and that ain't a compliment.
>FANTASTIC FOUR #54 - A story of two halves, as the rather
>boring Hidden Ones plot gets revealed, while Dr Doom helps
>tie up some subplots before Carlos Pacheco leaves as writer.
>Bit of a mixed bag. It's a 100-page giant, by the way, but
>quite honestly, I lack the interest in the Silver Age to slog through this
stuff.
I enjoyed this though I'd prefer Valeria to be a teenager/big sister than a
baby but it works well enough this way and makes sense too. Kesel should have
been onboard all along. And the Silver Age dismissal is a shame because your
interest may not be there but the quality is. Though it may be dangerous for
you to get into it. Reading lots of silver age books might cause you to fall
behind and stop putting up X-axis which would be a loss to me as it's so
enjoyable.
>IRON MAN #53 - Iron Man fights drug dealers, a monk in Nepal
>or some such place does monk stuff, and a character I'm
>apparently supposed to recognise appears out of the blue on
>the final page for a cliffhanger that just leaves me confused
>as much as anything else. Bit of a mess, to be honest. C+
A character you're supposed to recognize? It's only been two issues since that
character was last seen. The stories aren't adequately action-packed but since
comics are trying to just attract adults apparently, and since I am an adult,
I'm enjoying this enough to keep buying.
Laura M. Parkinson
>Genre convention or not, I simply don't accept the proposition
>that clones retain the memories of their "parents" up to the
>point of death.
... And after, since it's said pretty much that they remember *being*
dead, and that's part of what's driving them nuts even quicker.
>Even the story itself seems hazy on the
>whole idea. Yacoubi and Gani both seem clear enough that all
>the clones have retained these memories, yet Gani seems
>surprised to find out that the clone of Ana has them too, and
>through some unexplained means, Samir has somehow managed to
>be a clone for the entire storyline without knowing it. How
>does that work, exactly?
Actually, it's even worse from what I gathered. Isn't he the one that
was assassinated last issue (or was it the issue before? All the
mediocrity is running together, sorry)? So he hasn't been a clone the
*whole* storyline... they made a clone of him then, an issue or two
ago, and somehow grew him to adulthood and plugged him into the
program over what... two or three days probably? All the while he
somehow completely didn't realize this.
Right.
>X-TREME X-MEN rounds off its first year
*kersnip*
>Not good.
>
>Rating: C-
Hrmph. And here after your comments elsewhere, it sounded like you
actually liked this issue.
>That leaves a late books list comprising Ultimate X-Men #17
>(originally due next week) and Origin #6 (due back in January,
>but there you go).
Oh c'mon, it's only like three months or so. What are a few months
overdue between friends?
--
-'-,-'-<<0 Trickster 0>>-'-,-'- lpark...@mindspring.com
http://lparkinson.home.mindspring.com
"Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be
destroyed." -Richard Adams, Watership Down
SupremePimpinMachine
>Doesn't art count for anything in your grade system?
I, for one, find the art to be a disappointment, considering how much
I've enjoyed Larocca's artwork in the past. Too often, I can't figure
out what the hell I'm supposed to be seeing.
> The fact that the diaries have been ignored escapes me. It's not the plot of
> the book, it's the condition the team exists under while exploring the plot.
> It was mentioned heavily in the annual and in the gambit issues (not recalling
> off hand what those were).
The search for the diaries is what got me to start buying the book.
The fact that very little is done in the way of advancing this plot is
annoying.
>Excellent writing. If you put any other writer's name on it, it
would be >considered a lot more of an achievement, but
>for some reason every month people expect Claremont to be a different
writer
>than he's always been. This is the same style that turned on
millions of X->men fans, only he's doing it on a larger scale.
That's the problem, he's writing like it's 1985. His style hasn't
changed at all, which is why many people are bitching about it. When I
read New X-Men, I don't expect to read a book written like The
Invisibles or JLA. Show a little diversity. I understand that super
hero soap opera is his style, but it doesn't have to be written the
same way every time. Bendis has his own style, but Ultimate
Spider-Man, Alias and Powers don't read the same way. Claremont shows
us nothing in the way of changing from his first run on Uncanny. While
I'll give him credit for writing the characters consistently, they're
all written the same way. If the next storyarc isn't significantly
interesting, I'll be dropping the book.
Jeremy Henderson
off:
>Okay, obviously the things you hate about Claremont's XXM are the things I
>enjoy most, but how can you rate this book so low (C-) when it's drawn so
>incredibly. Apart from your beefs about the establishing shot, the renderings
>of all characters have to earn this book at least a B. Doesn't art count for
>anything in your grade system?
But on comics, there's a lot more to art than the sheer prettiness of
it all. I don't think anyone would deny that Larocca's drawings are
attractive to look at, but his storytelling leaves a lot to be
desired.
Paul O'Brien
<windb...@aol.com> writes
>Okay, obviously the things you hate about Claremont's XXM are the things I
>enjoy most, but how can you rate this book so low (C-) when it's drawn so
>incredibly.
I'm not wildly impressed by Larroca's storytelling these days. It's
okay, but it doesn't really do a great deal for me.
>Doesn't art count for
>anything in your grade system?
Yes, but there are really only a handful of artists out there whose
work I enjoy enough that it can really raise the grade of a book I
otherwise disliked. Sienkiewicz is one.
>The fact that the diaries have been ignored escapes me. It's not the plot of
>the book, it's the condition the team exists under while exploring the plot.
I disagree. The team exists, supposedly, for the primary if not sole
purpose of locating the diaries. And yet, in the entire first year of
their book, they have done little or nothing to pursue that goal.
So why are they together? What's the point?
>Incidentally, criticizing the art as uninformative ignores Claremont's
>narration which does a great deal to establish the situation in which Kahn
>rules.
And I have no difficulty with Claremont filling the gaps with scripting
when the art isn't doing the job. My problem with narrative captions
is when they're simply duplicating material which is already evident
from the art. That's just a waste of text.
>Great stuff. Lots of differences between the characters and those differences
>are what creates the subplots. Excellent writing. If you put any other
>writer's name on it, it would be considered a lot more of an achievement, but
>for some reason every month people expect Claremont to be a different writer
>than he's always been.
If they put any other writer's on it, I'd wonder why Claremont was
writing under a pseudonym. Like him or not, his writing style, and
especially his scripting style, is very distinctive.
>And the Silver Age dismissal is a shame because your
>interest may not be there but the quality is. Though it may be dangerous for
>you to get into it. Reading lots of silver age books might cause you to fall
>behind and stop putting up X-axis which would be a loss to me as it's so
>enjoyable.
Sorry, but the Silver Age does nothing for me. It's of some
historical interest, and I can appreciate that some of the concepts
are quite interesting, but the entire style of the 1960s leaves me
cold. Equally, I can appreciate that Chaplin films were funny to
audiences of the time, but they don't make me laugh.
>>IRON MAN #53 - Iron Man fights drug dealers, a monk in Nepal
>>or some such place does monk stuff, and a character I'm
>>apparently supposed to recognise appears out of the blue on
>>the final page for a cliffhanger that just leaves me confused
>>as much as anything else. Bit of a mess, to be honest. C+
>
>A character you're supposed to recognize? It's only been two issues since that
>character was last seen.
Oh, was she the rebel warrior type woman from Not Yugoslavia? Shows
you how that story went in one ear and out the other...
Paul O'Brien
<lpark...@mindspring.com> writes
>
>Actually, it's even worse from what I gathered. Isn't he the one that
>was assassinated last issue (or was it the issue before? All the
>mediocrity is running together, sorry)?
You mean the guy who was gunned down leaving his home last issue?
No, that was Dr Cvetkovski, the scientist who had created the anti-
Albanian killer virus.
God, there's really no way of synopsising this plot without making
it sound dumb, is there?
Laura M. Parkinson
>In article <3cb9f03d...@News.CIS.DFN.DE>, Laura M. Parkinson
><lpark...@mindspring.com> writes
>>
>>Actually, it's even worse from what I gathered. Isn't he the one that
>>was assassinated last issue (or was it the issue before? All the
>>mediocrity is running together, sorry)?
>
>You mean the guy who was gunned down leaving his home last issue?
>No, that was Dr Cvetkovski, the scientist who had created the anti-
>Albanian killer virus.
Aaah, sorry, my mistake.
Apparently I'm having the same problem you had recognizing someone in
Iron Man. The vague concepts sorta kinda stick, but most of it just is
purged from memory about as quickly as it sinks in.
>God, there's really no way of synopsising this plot without making
>it sound dumb, is there?
Mmmm.... nope.
Windbag1000
>I disagree. The team exists, supposedly, for the primary if not sole
>purpose of locating the diaries. And yet, in the entire first year of
>their book, they have done little or nothing to pursue that goal.
>So why are they together? What's the point?
Life is what happens when you're making other plans. This is the condition the
book is under but once events occur that require immediate attention, the plan
to acquire the diaries goes on the backburner. Insisting a writer/artist
follow a creative work so stringently seems to ignore the creative process.
The diaries are discussed and at times, they have been fairly important (as
with gambit) but I don't wish to see creative people inhibit their storytelling
by limiting what can happen to a fairly undramatic concept.
Billy Bissette
windb...@aol.com says...
Not to mention Vargas (who just got a cameo again) seems to be taking
his own advantages of the diaries.
Gorok190
>work I enjoy enough that it can really raise the grade of a book I
>otherwise disliked. Sienkiewicz is one.
>
Ditto. I'm really not getting enough from him these days to stay happy. I know
I should have bought his work on Ultimate Marvel Team-Up, but I just don't care
enough about that book to get three issues. Though, who knows how much longer I
can restrain myself...
His cover work for Fury and Elektra, as well as his pages for Alias, have
tortured me to the point of near insanity. I know you don't care that much for
Claremont's work these days, but as we both see eye to eye on Sienkiewicz...
just imagine how much I'm suffering waiting for that Claremont/Sienkiewicz
team-up in X-Men Unlimited.
Feel my pain, dammit! ;)
-Drew
"What do the Republicans have to do with cancer?"
"Nothing. They just go where the evil is."
- Duckman
Kevin
"Paul O'Brien" <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:jngc9a...@enzym.rnd.uni-c.dk...
> X-TREME X-MEN rounds off its first year, marking twelve
> consecutive issues of its protagonists Not Looking For The
> Diaries. Look, call me impatient, but a year into the book,
> shouldn't we have seen at least ONE story which actually has
> a bearing on the supposed premise of the book? I know
> Claremont loves his dangling plots, but aren't the diaries
> meant to be the focus of the book?
I don't know how I feel about X-Treme X-Men, I like it because of the art
and the fact most of my favourite characters are in it. I feel anxious about
it because of the amounts of tits and arse in every issue and the fact that
the basic premise of the book (i.e. those blasted diaries) is something that
doesn't really have either the substance or the depth to maintain an ongoing
title like this. A lot of it is beautiful eye-candy, but there is the
feeling that Claremont has already realised that the books' basic premise
would only ever fill out a mini-series. I'd expect that after another two or
three years, no one will even care or remember what the original motivation
of the characters was.
Kev.
Yuri G.
>
>> This is the same style that turned on
>
> That's the problem, he's writing like it's 1985. His style hasn't
> changed at all, which is why many people are bitching about it.
There's more to it than that, it's not just Claremont's style that
puts people off, the underlying stories themselves are also weak as
hell. You need to bear in mind that some of the people bitching about
XXM are long-time Claremont fans like myself... Nothing would please
me more than to see Claremont write good X-Men stories in the style he
pioneered in the early 80s. That's exactly what I was hoping for when
he launched XXM. Unfortunately, his work on XXM has been thoroughly
mediocre.
I never would have dropped XXM if it had lived up to the standards
that Claremont set in the 80s. XXM does not hold up next to the Dark
Phoenix Saga, the original Brood war, DoFP, Belasco/Magik, the Kulan
Gath adventure, or any of the other memorable tales that Claremont
produced in the 80s.
Yg
Yuri G.
>
> Anyhow, onto the story. The basic story here is that the
> charismatic warlord Khan has kidnapped Storm and decided that
> he's going to try to conquer the world and win her as his
> wife. And, uh, that's pretty much your lot. We're three
> issues into this arc with no end in sight, and if you ask me,
> it's dragging.
I may be missing something here as I dropped XXM a few months back,
but isn't this just a rehash of the old "Arkon kidnaps Storm and
decides that he's going to try to conquer the world and win her as his
wife" story? Or is this one more like the old "Dracula kidnaps Storm
and decides that he's going to try to conquer the world and win her as
his wife" story?
Yg
Shawn Hill
: over in Avengers. His relationship with Storm does make a nice difference and
: I'm curious about where this might go and where Slipstream might fit in with
: its resolution.
Haven't we seen enough of people trying to make Storm their queen? It used
to happen to Sue and Wanda all the time in the 60s and 70s, it's tired
now. Chris used to show Ororo's majesty by having her use her powers, not
just having admirers talk about her.
: than he's always been. This is the same style that turned on millions of X-men
: fans, only he's doing it on a larger scale.
It's more the same style that got mired in distractions and unnecessary
complexity before "New" X-men began in the early '90s.
:>AVENGERS #52 - Ah, the end is in sight. Plotlines start
:>drawing together as the big fightback against Kang begins.
:>To be honest, by this stage I'm just relieved to see this arc
:>finally drawing to a close, but this is a decent enough issue
:>on its merits, even if the final page is decidedly corny. B-
:>
: Ugh. This issue was terrible and the arc really has been a waste since 50.
: I'd rather have had six individual arcs in the space of this year-long yawner.
: Reminds me of Walt Simonson's run and that ain't a compliment.
6 two-parters are hardly arcs.
:>FANTASTIC FOUR #54 - A story of two halves, as the rather
:>boring Hidden Ones plot gets revealed, while Dr Doom helps
:>tie up some subplots before Carlos Pacheco leaves as writer.
:>Bit of a mixed bag. It's a 100-page giant, by the way, but
:>quite honestly, I lack the interest in the Silver Age to slog through this
: stuff.
: I enjoyed this though I'd prefer Valeria to be a teenager/big sister than a
: baby but it works well enough this way and makes sense too. Kesel should have
: been onboard all along. And the Silver Age dismissal is a shame because your
: interest may not be there but the quality is. Though it may be dangerous for
: you to get into it. Reading lots of silver age books might cause you to fall
: behind and stop putting up X-axis which would be a loss to me as it's so
: enjoyable.
Not sure about the irony here, but I agree the lack of Silver Age interest
is regrettable.
Shawn
Shawn Hill
: windb...@aol.com (Windbag1000) wrote in message news:<20020414145225...@mb-cg.aol.com>...
: That's the problem, he's writing like it's 1985. His style hasn't
: changed at all, which is why many people are bitching about it. When I
: read New X-Men, I don't expect to read a book written like The
: Invisibles or JLA. Show a little diversity. I understand that super
I think Grant is rather unique in his ability to come up with a unique
concept/approach for each title he's given, and stick to it through his
entire run. CC has never been that sort of chameleon. He does the same
thing in every title, usually with the same characters (Satyr-9, Viper,
Karma, Roma, etc.)
: I'll give him credit for writing the characters consistently, they're
: all written the same way. If the next storyarc isn't significantly
: interesting, I'll be dropping the book.
Beat ya. I'll check in, and come back if the focus improves, but I'm outta
here on this whole alien invasion story.
Shawn
Shawn Hill
: CABLE #104 - [untitled]
: by David Tischman and Igor Kordey
: X-TREME X-MEN #12 - "Second Front!"
: by Chris Claremont and Salvador Larroca
: like he's already halfway out of the door. Despite some
: initially favourable reaction, this has been the most notably
: unsuccessful of the X-books relaunches, sending the book
: plunging in sales compared with Robert Weinberg's run.
Less successful than Casey's Uncanny? But I guess that title is rather
sales-proof. And Brotherhood wasn't a relaunch, the other abject failure
of the new regime.
: Genre convention or not, I simply don't accept the proposition
: that clones retain the memories of their "parents" up to the
: point of death. Even the story itself seems hazy on the
: whole idea. Yacoubi and Gani both seem clear enough that all
Actually, when I think of it, the first place I read of it was in John
Varley's fiction in the '70s. And he had something like a literal memory
bank, where people would download their memories at regular intervals. So,
the clone (should you perish) would only be updated to your last bank
visit, not anything "magical" after that. Which is a bit more plausible
than somehow automatically receiving the life-experience of your
"original."
: through some unexplained means, Samir has somehow managed to
: be a clone for the entire storyline without knowing it. How
: does that work, exactly?
well, if you thought you were the original, or "real"; it's how the
replicants work in Blade Runner, the one's who think they're human. They
have artificial memories.
: its characters. On the plus side, the art in this issue is
: excellent, and a welcome reminder of what Igor Kordey is
: capable of, coming after his awkward rush job on New X-Men
: #124.
Which I really didn't find as bad as many people did. Maybe I've become
his fanboy, but I thought the sense of god-like beings invading a mutant
stronghold came through very clearly.
: X-FACTOR, on the other hand, is a pleasant surprise.
: Ignore the title, which is presumably just being reused to
: preserve the trademark, since it has nothing to do with the
: actual book. This one did not sound very promising when it
It's just basically a good title, why not use it? Too bad X-treme couldn't
have got there first, huh?
: X-TREME X-MEN rounds off its first year, marking twelve
: consecutive issues of its protagonists Not Looking For The
: Diaries. Look, call me impatient, but a year into the book,
: shouldn't we have seen at least ONE story which actually has
: a bearing on the supposed premise of the book? I know
: Claremont loves his dangling plots, but aren't the diaries
: meant to be the focus of the book?
Apparently, they were just the excuse to seperate the teams. And start a
new "12" type story to be milked for a decade or so.
: wife. And, uh, that's pretty much your lot. We're three
: issues into this arc with no end in sight, and if you ask me,
: it's dragging.
Especially since they (the alien military force) is just plain not
interesting. Busiek is doing it so much better with Kang right now. Did I
miss the part where they apprehended Betsy's killer, or even tried? Has
she had a funeral? Did Captain Britain have an opinion? Something I
thought was pretty major has only been reference by Thunderbird, just not
enough.
: After this gloriously uninformative establishing shot, we get
Hah hah! Great phrase. Like "in glorious black and white!"
: transsexual spy. Got to say, I'm with Shaitan on this one.
: Khan's got a thousand soldiers standing right next to him,
: doesn't he have anyone who actually specialises in this kind
: of thing, rather than wasting a perfectly good superhuman on
: an amateur drag job?
I've dropped this book, and I didn't think I would. I respect writer and
artist sticking with the title, but the last story I was interested in was
Sage's, and she's also a background player in this totally irrelevant
development. And Viper? Again? Really? Chris, why?
: Also this week:
: AVENGERS #52 - Ah, the end is in sight. Plotlines start
: drawing together as the big fightback against Kang begins.
: To be honest, by this stage I'm just relieved to see this arc
: finally drawing to a close, but this is a decent enough issue
: on its merits, even if the final page is decidedly corny. B-
Well, so is the "warrior liege and betraying son" angle, but I'm enjoying
this story immensely. It'll be a gorgeous TPB (and a big one!).
: BLACK PANTHER #43 - Halfway through "Enemy of the State II",
: and the maze of plot threads is starting to resolve into a
: single plot. To be honest, King Solomon's Frogs are a little
: bit too corny for my tastes, and sit uneasily next to the
: political themes of the rest of the storyline, but Priest
: seems pretty clearly aware of that, so I'm giving him the
: benefit of the doubt. B+
What do you think of the proliferation of Kirby-characters into Velutto's
realistic style? Can Adam and She and loads of Kirby-dots be far behind?
: FANTASTIC FOUR #54 - A story of two halves, as the rather
: boring Hidden Ones plot gets revealed, while Dr Doom helps
: tie up some subplots before Carlos Pacheco leaves as writer.
: Bit of a mixed bag. It's a 100-page giant, by the way, but
: quite honestly, I lack the interest in the Silver Age to slog
: through this stuff. C
Sad, that. But, totally consistent of you.
: POWER COMPANY #3 - As you might perhaps have anticipated, the
: Power Company fight back and defeat the villain, and
: Skyrocket agrees to join the team. There are a couple of
: interesting character moments in here, but ultimately this
: book isn't going anywhere unexpected. It's all... well, a
: little predictable. B-
Witchfire is annoying me less, and the various subtle team dynamics could
build to something. The dragonrider thing, though, was not fresh at all.
: SANDMAN PRESENTS: THE THESSALIAD #4 - Thessaly takes revenge
: on the death gods in thoroughly nasty ways in a story which
: seems to be angling for a sequel on the last page. Quite
: entertaining, and the art is excellent, but it does leave
: me feeling a little dissatisfied. I was hoping for something
: a little deeper, I suppose. B-
Yep. Thessaly gets threatened. Gods are Foolish. Thessaly makes them pay.
That's not much for a four-parter, even if some of the sequences along the
way are cool (the basilisk hedge, the diner conversation). Really the best
overall issue was the first, with the rest all denouement.
Shawn
Michael W Crichton
throwaway reference to the X-Files series. A fascinating show, truly, but
one that logically would have NO PLACE WHATSOEVER on the Marvel universe's
version of Fox. Think about it for a moment: In our world, the X-Files is so
popular because of it's engaging blend of plausable drama with unbelievably
paranoid feakishness. Yet there is _nothing_ i=shown on the X-Files that
would not be perfectly reasonable to the average citizen of the MU. "Mutant
serial killers? Nightline did a show on that last week. Ancient Vampires
seeking human blood? CNN just had a segment on that 5 minutes ago. Rogue
computer out to take over the world? The Discovery cannel has a special on
Ultron tomorrow night. Mad sorcerers seeking innocents to sacrifice for dark
power? Just read something about that in Doctor Strange's autobiography.
Alien invasion? We had three of them last week." And so on. Hell, logically,
the general public of the MU should be either completely blase, or right on
the verge of a collective nervous breakdown...
Windbag1000
>to happen to Sue and Wanda all the time in the 60s and 70s, it's tired
>now. Chris used to show Ororo's majesty by having her use her powers, not
>just having admirers talk about her.
If you cannot enjoy the story out of context of 40 years of comic book history,
you're robbing yourself of a good little space opera. It's hardly
ground-breaking, but very little in superhero comics is anymore (without
sticking gratuitous nihilistic violence, cursing and sexual acts). I prefer
comics to remain for all ages and happily accept the limitation that some
amount of story re-telling is inevitable. With the art as engaging as it is,
the fact that it ships on time every month without fill-in creators, and that
the storytelling as full as possible, XXM is one of the best values in monthly
comic books.
Piercey
"Kevin" <n...@real.addresss.dead> wrote in message
news:101887791...@iapetus.uk.clara.net...
The thing I hate about the diaries is that they are never explained
adequately. We first see Kitty finding one that has scribbles about the
Twelve in it, and they spend a time trying to work out exactly what it
means. Professor X suddenly announces that the Twelve's names were actually
just written in the back. Now, I cant even remember who has any, how many
there were, WHY they got lost and quite how the team planned on finding
them? Change Cerebro into a book searching device? Even if the team couldnt
trust Professor X, I doubt Cassandra Nova could give a stuff about some old
diaries that may or may not predict the future - for example, if it predicts
disaster, the team are going to try and counter that and make the diaries
wrong and so pretty useless.
Is anyone keeping check on the diaries and who has what? The whole thing
with Kitty and her knowing about her departure makes me really question why
Destiny bothered to concentrate on the X-Men, when there must have been more
important people she was concerned with.
So yeah if anyone could post a list of who has what - maybe pass it on to CC
to remind him.
Piercey
Piercey
"Yuri G." <yg...@calyx.net> wrote in message
news:ecca66b7.02041...@posting.google.com...
Nono, youre thinking of the Doctor Doom story! Or perhaps it's me getting
confused - maybe its the Shinobi Shaw story.... I can't remember....
:)
Piercey
Paul O'Brien
<yg...@calyx.net> writes
>
> I may be missing something here as I dropped XXM a few months back,
>but isn't this just a rehash of the old "Arkon kidnaps Storm and
>decides that he's going to try to conquer the world and win her as his
>wife" story?
This did occur to me, yes. But really it's just a stock plot idea
from 1950s B-movies, which he happens to have done before with Storm.
(And with Arkon, you're talking about a story from over 20 years ago.)
I V
[Talking about X-Treme X-men]
> It's hardly ground-breaking, but very little in superhero comics is
> anymore
Really? This may be hyperbole, but I'm not sure I can think of a time
since Stan Lee's heyday when superhero comics have been _more_
groundbreaking. Alan Moore, Bendis, Morrison - these people are
finding new techniques and new resonances for the superhero genre.
> (without sticking gratuitous nihilistic violence, cursing and
> sexual acts). I prefer comics to remain for all ages and happily accept
Oh come now, all this bleating about terrible adult content in comics is
getting boring. There's nothing in any of the superhero comics I can
think of which you wouldn't get on prime time TV. So, some comics aren't
suitable for pre-teens. Why is that in any way a bad thing?
> the limitation that some amount of story re-telling is inevitable. With
Why on earth should it be inevitable that writing comics for all ages
leads to creators telling the same stories? Do all children's books have
the same plot? You seem to have a remarkably restricted view on what
comics can acheive - they can't tell adult stories, they can't be
original. I think you need to consider that these might be your personal
limitations, not limitations of the medium.
[Snip]
--
"Mr I V Lenin, the Lenin of love,
Make me feel so fine,
With a hit of socialism,
Straight in the mainline." -- Rev Dr D Wayne Love
Paul O'Brien
<sh...@fas.harvard.edu> writes
>
>Less successful than Casey's Uncanny?
Commercially, yes, I'd say so. It took Casey a good few months to get
back down to his inherited sales level. Tischmann was plunging below
it almost immediately.
On the diaries:
>Apparently, they were just the excuse to seperate the teams. And start a
>new "12" type story to be milked for a decade or so.
Evidently so, but if that was the intention then it was a bad choice
of plot device. The Twelve was just a mystery which nobody really
knew anything about and which characters could understandably put on
the back burner for years at a time. But Claremont's team was formed
with the clear and specific objective to Find The Diaries. That
builds it into the very concept of the team.
Any team needs some kind of rationale to be together, however loose.
If Claremont's X-Men AREN'T going to look for the diaries - and it
would seem they aren't - then why don't they just go back to the
mansion? Why do they get up in the morning? What's the point of
the team?
At the very least, it's a valid question.
>Did I
>miss the part where they apprehended Betsy's killer, or even tried?
Vargas? I don't think they know where to find him. I can live with
that.
>Has
>she had a funeral? Did Captain Britain have an opinion?
We saw Brian turn up to collect the body, so presumably she had a
funeral in Britain.
>I respect writer and
>artist sticking with the title, but the last story I was interested in was
>Sage's, and she's also a background player in this totally irrelevant
>development.
I'm somewhat interested to see where he's going with Sage.
>And Viper? Again? Really? Chris, why?
Never liked the Viper much. Not a very interesting character,
when you get down to it.
>What do you think of the proliferation of Kirby-characters into Velutto's
>realistic style? Can Adam and She and loads of Kirby-dots be far behind?
Well, it's a weird style clash, but it's meant to be.
>Witchfire is annoying me less, and the various subtle team dynamics could
>build to something. The dragonrider thing, though, was not fresh at all.
I think that's my difficulty with Power Company so far. I have no
problem with any of these characters per se. But their first story
arc feels decidedly off-the-shelf.
CleV
<mi...@el-pierce.co.uk> wrote:
>> I may be missing something here as I dropped XXM a few months back,
>> but isn't this just a rehash of the old "Arkon kidnaps Storm and
>> decides that he's going to try to conquer the world and win her as his
>> wife" story? Or is this one more like the old "Dracula kidnaps Storm
>> and decides that he's going to try to conquer the world and win her as
>> his wife" story?
Arkon obviously has a thing for women who wear weird head-dresses.
Windbag1000
>comics can acheive - they can't tell adult stories, they can't be
>original. I think you need to consider that these might be your personal
>limitations, not limitations of the medium.
I believe that comics are capable of anything but that doesn't mean they belong
in Marvel superhero comics. The market has become saturated with a bunch of
adult children who whine about the fact that comics are not more like TV shows
or video games. Well, the fact is TV shows and video games are not going
anywhere. What comics do better than anything is provide entertaining stories
for children and younger teens. That market refreshes itself every five to
seven years. Unfortunately, adults have clung on to superhero comics,
preventing them from being for anyone but themselves. Attempts to make comics
playful and understandable to new readers are laughed at --"What new readers?
I go to comic shops all the time and the only people I see are 35 year olds
like myself." Well, if you were eight years old and the only place to buy
comics was a hangout for adult men who make fun of anything targeted at kids,
would you make a point to avoid those stores? I would. It's absurd that
comics that feature fun narration "Hey True Believers" and soap opera-style
storylines and the like are shunned because those are the things that invite
kids into the world of superheroes a lot better than things like gritty
"real-life" violence, profanity and sex which other media do better anyway.
If you think comics for kids are a waste, then buy MAX, Vertigo and Marvel
Knights books. If you don't think such comics are a waste, then buy
Spider-girl or Archie and give them to a young relative which is what I do. If
comics are going to survive another ten years, they better do it through new
readers.
Steven Dumont
"Yuri G." wrote:
>
> There's more to it than that, it's not just Claremont's style that
> puts people off, the underlying stories themselves are also weak as
> hell. You need to bear in mind that some of the people bitching about
> XXM are long-time Claremont fans like myself... Nothing would please
> me more than to see Claremont write good X-Men stories in the style he
> pioneered in the early 80s. That's exactly what I was hoping for when
> he launched XXM. Unfortunately, his work on XXM has been thoroughly
> mediocre.
>
> I never would have dropped XXM if it had lived up to the standards
> that Claremont set in the 80s. XXM does not hold up next to the Dark
> Phoenix Saga, the original Brood war, DoFP, Belasco/Magik, the Kulan
> Gath adventure, or any of the other memorable tales that Claremont
> produced in the 80s.
In a nutshell, you've pretty much nailed it.
Steve
Consul de Designers <-> Jameson Stalanthas Yu
> >I disagree. The team exists, supposedly, for the primary if not sole purpose of locating the
> >diaries. And yet, in the entire first year of their book, they have done little or nothing to
> >pursue that goal. So why are they together? What's the point?
> Life is what happens when you're making other plans. This is the condition the book is under but
> once events occur that require immediate attention, the plan to acquire the diaries goes on the
> backburner. Insisting a writer/artist follow a creative work so stringently seems to ignore the
> creative process.
Yeah, Life Happens, but this is comic book scripted, so it _shouldn't_ be happening so
much.
> The diaries are discussed and at times, they have been fairly important (as with gambit) but I
> don't wish to see creative people inhibit their storytelling by limiting what can happen to a
> fairly undramatic concept.
Then they shouldn't have had it as the dynamic concept that they have always portrayed it
to be.
--
"But my stepdad's not mean, he's just adjusting." (Death to Smoochy)
Jameson Stalanthas Yu
(remove the 'x's for e-mail) xdedes...@dolphins-cove.com
http://www.dolphins-cove.com
Billy Bissette
pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk says...
> Any team needs some kind of rationale to be together, however loose.
> If Claremont's X-Men AREN'T going to look for the diaries - and it
> would seem they aren't - then why don't they just go back to the
> mansion? Why do they get up in the morning? What's the point of
> the team?
Must they find a diary every issue to make you happy? You keep
claiming that they aren't looking for the diaries. Every time an
issue comes out, you say they haven't looked for the diaries...
First issue, they form as a group to find the diaries.
In the process of looking for info, they get caught.
While getting out of that situation, they run into Vargas.
Vargas wipes the floor with them and kills Betsy.
They deal with Betsy's death.
The whole Gambit framing happens, which leads into Lifeguard
and Slipstream, and next thing you know they are trapped inside
an alien invasion.
In the meantime, Vargas has made off with at least one diary.
And is preparing for something else.
Depending on what you want to define as an arc, they've had
about 3 or 4. Half have tied into their searching for the diaries.
The alien invasion arc is just an unavoidable situation. Would
you rather they say "Hrm. Alien invasion? But we exist only to
find the diaries, and it has been two days (and 22 pages) since we
last saw one, so we'd better concentrate on that instead."
The diaries have been involved. They have looked. Other things
happen as well.
Dr. No-Heat (aka Jeremy Turner)
> The diaries have been involved. They have looked. Other things
> happen as well.
But these other things happen as a result of Claremont NOT writing about the
diaries. Since that is the premise behind the team splitting apart in the
first place, it would have been nice to see them doing something related in
an entire year's worth of stories (not to mention the mini). It would have
gone a long way towards establishing the team's reason for being.
Oh, and I laughed out loud at you typing "and next thing you know they are
trapped inside
an alien invasion." When's this arc over anyway? I'm honestly bored with it.
At least the alien invasion over in New X-Men had proper build up and a
reason for occurring, rather than just "and the next thing you know...."
--
Dr. No-Heat,
(a.k.a. Jeremy Turner)
"The sad news is that we will be heading for Nalic Nod with six of our
co-workers in a state of permanent death. They died today, murdered by
some real arseholes." -Lord Crumb, Bad Taste
"A Prayer in public school?!? God has no place within these walls, just
as facts have no place within organized religion!"
Shawn Hill
:>Haven't we seen enough of people trying to make Storm their queen? It used
:>now. Chris used to show Ororo's majesty by having her use her powers, not
:>just having admirers talk about her.
: amount of story re-telling is inevitable. With the art as engaging as it is,
: the fact that it ships on time every month without fill-in creators, and that
: the storytelling as full as possible, XXM is one of the best values in monthly
: comic books.
That would all be true (and the consistency of writer and artist is a
virtue, I easily agree) if the stories were at all interesting. They were up
till about the annual. I LOVED the Jean/Storm conversation issue, and I
respected the Sage/Lady Mastermind battle. It makes perfect sense that
Sebastian would try to get revenge on his former amanuensis.
But this alien arc is a complete and utter letdown, and I'm not interested
in any of the complications that are developing from it, or any of the
characters introduced in it. The book had enough on it's plate already, it
didn't need this particular complication right now. I'm out till it's over.
Shawn
Shawn Hill
:> You seem to have a remarkably restricted view on what
:>comics can acheive - they can't tell adult stories, they can't be
:>original. I think you need to consider that these might be your personal
:>limitations, not limitations of the medium.
: comics that feature fun narration "Hey True Believers" and soap opera-style
: storylines and the like are shunned because those are the things that invite
: kids into the world of superheroes a lot better than things like gritty
: "real-life" violence, profanity and sex which other media do better anyway.
You are really off-base here. What you describe above is exactly what many
of those adults are clamoring for, too. Witness the popularity of DC's
kid-centric "Adventures" line, which get regularly (and seriously) reviewed
in these parts. Witness everyone trying to think of ways to attract kids,
not repel them. You're setting up both a straw man and a false dichotomy
(between "grim and gritty/sexual" and "kid-oriented") that isn't true,
because both exist, and comics try to appeal to and serve multiple markets.
You've strayed far from the topic of X-treme X-men's new issue, which is
hardly written with pre-teens in mind (certainly not with the t&a pinup art,
or the dense complexity of the psychological issues Claremont likes to
pursue), and is getting criticized not because it's serving a juvenile
audience, but because it doesn't seem to be at it's best on a story level
right now.
: If you think comics for kids are a waste, then buy MAX, Vertigo and Marvel
: Knights books. If you don't think such comics are a waste, then buy
: Spider-girl or Archie and give them to a young relative which is what I do. If
: comics are going to survive another ten years, they better do it through new
: readers.
None of which has anything to do with X-treme X-men, Mr. Soapbox.
Shawn
Billy Bissette
\(aka Jeremy Turner\)" <jjt...@NOSPAMDAMMITpsu.edu> says...
> "Billy Bissette" wrote
> > The diaries have been involved. They have looked. Other things
> > happen as well.
>
> But these other things happen as a result of Claremont NOT writing about the
> diaries. Since that is the premise behind the team splitting apart in the
> first place, it would have been nice to see them doing something related in
> an entire year's worth of stories (not to mention the mini). It would have
> gone a long way towards establishing the team's reason for being.
My point was that Paul has been claiming that the diaries aren't being
involved when they actually are.
And if the diaries were being involved directly every single issue, I'd
bet he'd find something to complain about that as well... "It's like
Sailor Moon, diary-of-the-issue..." "The only thing this book focuses on
are the diaries, I wish it would deal with something else because I'm
getting tired of this." "The team tracks a diary to <place> where
they fight <villian> until the end of the issue. I'm guessing next issue
will have <X-man/woman> beat <villian> in an overly wordy battle, they
will get the diary, reveal <startling diary revelation of what just
happened in New X-Men>, and prepare to go after the next diary." "I said
focusing this series on the diaries was a bad idea, the team just has
no other purpose."
> Oh, and I laughed out loud at you typing "and next thing you know they are
> trapped inside
> an alien invasion." When's this arc over anyway? I'm honestly bored with it.
> At least the alien invasion over in New X-Men had proper build up and a
> reason for occurring, rather than just "and the next thing you know...."
I just mainly want Lifeguard and Slipstream to die. Cameron actually
had a sliver of potential until he became rookie rookie of the team, and
Lifeguard is so generically stupid that she doesn't even deserve any
development, not that she's getting any anyway.
Claremont needs to remove his book of their clutter, then get back to
Earth on what he's writing. Personally, I actually would like a bit more
focus on the diaries at the moment, and immediately plot and character
development. I think Claremont needs to get back into a decent groove
before over-loading things again. I also think the alien invasion arc
is pretty stupid, but am rolling with it for now. I do like Khan as a
character, and would have much preferred he actually get introduced in
some other fashion than an interdimensional conquering spree. Maybe we'd
get away from the overly flashy scenes as well. Get to some other kinds
of battles, where brute force just doesn't solve everything (and I don't
mean because the other side is invulnerable).
Steve Jones
news:a9f4h8$1uc$1...@paris.btinternet.com...
No, it was something much more novel: "Loki kidnaps Storm and decides that
he's going to try to conquer Asgard and win her as his wife." You know, if I
wanted to conduct a sting against supervillains, I'd hold a celebrity date
auction featuring Storm.
- Steve
Billy Bissette
says...
> he's going to try to conquer Asgard and win her as his wife." You know, if I
> wanted to conduct a sting against supervillains, I'd hold a celebrity date
> auction featuring Storm.
Don't forget to hold a celebrity date auction featuring Jean, so you
can build a team of mutant heroes to help in the supervillian sting. :p