DC VERSUS MARVEL #2: "I don't have to speak, she defends me."
Jim Smith
On 20 Jan 1996, Michael A. Chary wrote:
>
> This is not a review.
>
> Hey, we got the fights this time :) I was remembering some of the
> great fights I have seen while reading this and some of the great
> confrontations as well. Ali/Frazier, Ali/Foreman, Hearns/Hagler,
> Hogan/Bockwinkler, Magic/Bird, Phillies/Astros, Norris/Lee, stuff like
> that.
This reminds me: Did anyone read SUPERMAN VS. MUHAMMED ALI? I always
wanted to know who won that one...
>
> Hmm, well the argument between the two cops might indicate that Gotham
> is analogous to New York City.
Given that Green Lantern and the Titans hang out in DC-New YOrk, I'd
assume _New York_ is analagous to New York, and that the Box of Infinite
Power is simply in different spots on different Earths.
> Are Wolvie's claws not admantium anymore? I ask because the Wolvie I
> know would have filleted Killer Croc, who's supposed to be off in the
> Bayou with Swamp Thing anyway :)
BATMAN CHRONICLES #3 brought Croc back, I hear.
As for Wolvie, he had the adamantium literally _sucked_ out by ol'
Magneto around X-MEN #25 or WOLVERINE #75 (I'm not sure which one came
first). His healing factor is no longer inhibited by the metal, and he's
becoming more feral.
> When did Bane start talking?
Uh...he's been talking ever since I started reading comics with BATMAN
#490. Further research indicates he was talking in #489 as well. You
_missed_ this?
> There is no way on God's green earth that Captain America would have
> let Bane get him in thyat position. Yeah, I know Bane did the same
> thing to Batman, but I complained about it then too, and I have
> witnesses :) (Greg? Dave? Senator?)
OK, well, I'd like to think Cap was deliberately trying to make this
fight as cool as possible. I'm more than sure I wasn't the only one glad
to see him pound Bane into the dirt (Anyone else shout, "Yeah, baby, yeah!"?)
> I thought the Batmobil had some sort of security lock?
Batman _let_ them get in so he could see where they would go.
> Who the heck is Thor praying to? He's a god.
Odin.
> Okay, I want to see the Omega effect blast Thanos. There is no way
> Thanos can take Darkseid.
Yeah, baby, yeah!
> That was a cute bit with Snapper and Rick.
Now, was it "real" or was it just two guys who happen to be named
"Snapper" and "Rick"? (I really woulda thought Snapper was totaled in
Crisis)
> I found the Flash/Quicksilver fight disatisfying as well. Wally is a
> million times faster than Pietro. He should have finished Quicksilver
> off in a second. (Unless, of course, Pietro was accessing the Speed
> Force :))
Wally could have shoved his hand right through Pietro's head all right,
but I tend to assume he didn't want to hurt him _too_ much.
> There is no *way* that Aquaman would take down Namor.
That's why Free Willy did instead :)
> Oh, right, like Kingpin wouldn't recognize Peter Parker.
He wouldn't if he'd dyed his hair. Of course, he seems to forget that
when Marvel needs readers to think he's Peter...I mean, when Ben is
working professionally...
> Here's how I see the next fights:
>
> Superman should *ream* Hulk, but of course the idiot vote will ruin
> that story.
I'm assuming "ream" means "kick sorry green butt".
Are you sure the vote will go to Hulk? Everything I've heard suggests
Superman's got it made.
> Batman should destroy Cap. One lousy shield against Batman's gas
> pellets? Please.
As Mark Greunwald said in Wizard: "If Batman throws a stink bomb, Cap can
just hold his breath"
Mike Carlin: "While Batman hits him _harder_."
> Elektra will kill Catwoman.
>
> Norrin Radd will decimate Kyle.
And Goldust will beat Razor Ramon for the belt.
Jim "Whssssssssst! Goldusssst" Smith
Scott Hollifield
: > That was a cute bit with Snapper and Rick.
: Now, was it "real" or was it just two guys who happen to be named
: "Snapper" and "Rick"? (I really woulda thought Snapper was totaled in
: Crisis)
He was brought back in Invasion! and Blasters Special #1. (I think.)
--
"Yes, sure, I heard him talking to the girl about Earth-Two. So what?
I've talked about Earth-Two myself. Is that so wrong?" -- Binky's
friend, _Ambush Bug_ #3
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Hollifield * sco...@cris.com * http://www.cris.com/~scotth/
jk0...@acad.drake.edu
>
> Now, was it "real" or was it just two guys who happen to be named
> "Snapper" and "Rick"? (I really woulda thought Snapper was totaled in
> Crisis)
>
Just to add a quirk to this argument....I don't know if any of you are
aware that there are role playing games out that match the universes.
I took the liberty one day of comparing the two, just to prove which universe
was stronger....DC kicks Marvels ass...DC universe, by whatever twist of fate
is three times more powerful than marvel...that is to say a normal human in DC
is three times stronger than a normal human in Marvel..have fun with that one..
Joshua
Sidne G. Ward
>This is not a review.
>spoilers ho :)
>Uh oh, Henry's law was nearly invoked. When the characters complain
>about the writing you know you're in trouble. "You can't stop for
>exposition came awful close."
I'm reading one of PAD's Star Trek novels right now, too. Until the
recent thread about how PAD includes lots of one-liners, I hadn't really
noticed. Now, of course, I have. It doesn't bother me. But I do notice
it. And I can see how it could be annoying to some.
>The WB Store "What's 'X --?'" bit was cute. :) (Those places are
>insideous, I have only ever been in them once and I ended up buying
>something. (A X-mas gift for my "sister" :))
I *love* WB stores. I just wish they still carried DC merchandise aimed
at adults.
>Gee, so much for the "It's just an interpretation" on Diana's
>costume. Wonder Woman's armor looks the same here as it does in
>"Wonder Woman."
At least it doesn't look like it does after she gets Thor's hammer. That
was the only thing in the books that *really* bugged me.
>There is no way on God's green earth that Captain America would have
>let Bane get him in thyat position. Yeah, I know Bane did the same
>thing to Batman, but I complained about it then too, and I have
>witnesses :) (Greg? Dave? Senator?)
Actually, I thought that Cap got out of it too easily considering what
happened to Batman.
>I get the feeling we're missing a page wherein Batman and Nightwing
>face off against Gambit? PAD, you out there?
I didn't even recognize Nightwing in the first panel.
>I thought the Batmobil had some sort of security lock?
You'd think common hoods would drive off in it all the time as easy as it
was for Wolverine and Gambit to steal it.
>Tim Drake got the best deal of any of these switches. :)
>If I were Robin, I'd challenge Jubes to a wrestling match :)
I was thinking that there's some small chance he may be tempted to let
her win when she tries to pin him. :)
>Who the heck is Thor praying to? He's a god.
>Okay, the Thor/Shazam fight was contrived. Captain Marvel could easily
>have evaded the ferris wheel with the speed of mercury. In fact, Thor
>should never have been able to touch him, Marvel's so
>fast. Additionally, one would think Zeus' lightning could overwhelm
>Thor's weather control.
I thought that Marvel should have been able to win as well.
>I found the Flash/Quicksilver fight disatisfying as well. Wally is a
>million times faster than Pietro. He should have finished Quicksilver
>off in a second. (Unless, of course, Pietro was accessing the Speed
>Force :))
Which you think would really startle Quicksilver the first time he was
able to tap into it.
>There is no *way* that Aquaman would take down Namor. Namor is fifteen
>times stronger than Aquaman. Of course, that guy with the hook ism't
>Aquaman, but still...
I'm not too familiar with Namor and his abilities, but everyone I know
who's read both characters says that Namor should have won.
>Here's how I see the next fights:
>Superman should *ream* Hulk, but of course the idiot vote will ruin
>that story.
Agree.
>Batman should destroy Cap. One lousy shield against Batman's gas
>pellets? Please.
Agree.
>Storm should crush Diana with lightning, of course Wonder Thor might
>nort care about lightning.
And I don't care about Wonder Thor. :(
>The real Spiderman would crush Superboy, but now? Pick'em
But the real Spider-Man wouldn't be able to crush the *real* Superboy. :)
>Lobo should crush Wolverine.
I don't care.
>Robin and Jubes will be interesting. I might give it to Jubes, but I
>doubt Tim will mind losing :)
I just want Ariana or the Spoiler to show up as well. :)
>Elektra will kill Catwoman.
Don't know Elektra, I'll take your word for it.
>Norrin Radd will decimate Kyle.
Is Norrin Radd the Silver Surfer? If so, I agree. Silver Surfer is the
best character at Marvel. At least he was during the 60s. :)
Sidne
sw...@primenet.com
Harold T Leonard
Jim Smith <jasm...@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu> writes:
>On 20 Jan 1996, Michael A. Chary wrote:
>> That was a cute bit with Snapper and Rick.
>
>Now, was it "real" or was it just two guys who happen to be named
>"Snapper" and "Rick"? (I really woulda thought Snapper was totaled in
>Crisis)
No Snapper was brushed under the carpet until Invasion, when he became
one of the Blasters. He now has the power to teleport with a snap of
his fingers. Him and the other Blasters were roaming the galaxy and
were last seen in the late lamented Valor series.
H. Thomas Leonard III
Eric Stevenson
: This is not a review.
: Hey, we got the fights this time :) I was remembering some of the
: great fights I have seen while reading this and some of the great
: confrontations as well. Ali/Frazier, Ali/Foreman, Hearns/Hagler,
: Hogan/Bockwinkler, Magic/Bird, Phillies/Astros, Norris/Lee, stuff like
: that. A contest can be entertaining. $3.95 US, $5.55 CAN, anyway:
: spoilers ho :)
:
: Are Wolvie's claws not admantium anymore? I ask because the Wolvie I
: know would have filleted Killer Croc, who's supposed to be off in the
: Bayou with Swamp Thing anyway :)
I thought that they had not gone back to adamantium yet.
: Who the heck is Thor praying to? He's a god.
Good point. I like the Punisher(2099)'s comment, "When you're a god,
you've got no one to pray to," right before he dusted (literally) a
couple of artificial Asgardians
: I found the Flash/Quicksilver fight disatisfying as well. Wally is a
: million times faster than Pietro. He should have finished Quicksilver
: off in a second. (Unless, of course, Pietro was accessing the Speed
: Force :))
A Quicksilver-Flash match up is ridiculous. The mere fact that they both
run is hardly enough reason for it. They should have matched the Flash
with Captain (Monica Rambeau) Marvel when she could turn into energy and
move at light speed. At least they would both be in the same speed class.
Matthew Sommer
>spoilers ho :)
>I found the Flash/Quicksilver fight disatisfying as well. Wally is a
>million times faster than Pietro. He should have finished Quicksilver
>off in a second. (Unless, of course, Pietro was accessing the Speed
>Force :))
Exactly!! This is exactly what i was thinking after i read the "battle"
between quicksilver and flash...
now, i havent been reading this series very closely, just as i was
loitering in the local comic shop, so i'd have to ask some questions
here-- first, what UNIVERSE are the heroes in now? are they randomly
switching back and forth, or have they both sort of merged, or what?
the reason i ask, is because i was sitting there thinking about how much
potential this speedster battle had, and hjow little of it was realized.
Ok, everyone knows that in their respective settings, wally is about a
million times faster than pietro... so, of course it's no contest,
right? well, i got to thinking... what would happen if pietro was in the
DCU? Would he all of a sudden freak out because he could feel the speed
force, and draw power from it? would he become addicted and not want to
return to his speed of sound limit in the marvel U?
and what if wally was brought to the MU? Would he LOSE touch with the
speed force? slow down a lot, or lose all his powers entirely??
seems that would be much more interesting than the tired cliche of the "i
hit you with 100 punches in a second" attack... not only that, but wally
is inexplicably uneffected by pietro's attack, gets up, and does the same
thing to him... *sigh*
guess this is the price we pay for having this universe shattering even
take place over like, what? 3 or 4 issues?
-matt-
--
Scott Iskow
>
>> When did Bane start talking?
>
>Uh...he's been talking ever since I started reading comics with BATMAN
>#490. Further research indicates he was talking in #489 as well. You
>_missed_ this?
>
He sure wasn't talking that much *after* Knightfall.
Wait a minute, let me guess.
You hated how Bane crippled Bats and cancelled your readings for a year
until Bruce came back.
Anyone out there actually glad that they read the whole Quest/Search/End
thingy?
Scott
***************
"Have I told you how much I like your fashion sense?"
"Yeah. Like, thirty times."
Harold T Leonard
In article <4e3b2n$j...@rs10.tcs.tulane.edu>, Computer Lab <l...@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu> writes:
>>wanted to know who won that one...
>
I think Supes turned off his powers or something.
>
>>OK, well, I'd like to think Cap was deliberately trying to make this
>>fight as cool as possible. I'm more than sure I wasn't the only one glad
>>to see him pound Bane into the dirt (Anyone else shout, "Yeah, baby, yeah!"?)
>>
>I'll get to this later.
>
>>> Here's how I see the next fights:
>>>
>
>>> Batman should destroy Cap. One lousy shield against Batman's gas
>>> pellets? Please.
>>
>>As Mark Greunwald said in Wizard: "If Batman throws a stink bomb, Cap can
>>just hold his breath"
>>
>>Mike Carlin: "While Batman hits him _harder_."
>
>What the hell? Cap is STRONGER than Batman! And you both thought that Cap should have beat the crap out of Bane, yet you go with Batman? "One
>lousy shield?" Umm, I'd take one lousy ADAMANTIUM LACED shield that
>Wolverine couldn't cut through over some gas pellets _any_ day. Cap
>SHOULD win, hands down. But alas, no one can forget that damn Captain
>America movie. That alone gives it to Bruce.
Gas pellets are not Batman's main weapon, if they were he would be just
your average Joe Hero. Batman's greatest weapon and asset is his mind.
He is about the most highly trained fighter in the DCU; his detective
skills and problem-solving abilities are the best Earth has to offer.
Batman uses gas pellets and fists as tools in the fight. Several times
Batman has fought people stronger than him and won.
I hope the battle does not boil down to Bat-erang vs. Shield or muscles
vs. muscles. That is not adequately represent Batman nor I would wager
Captain America.
H. Thomas Leonard III
Jim Smith
On 23 Jan 1996, Scott Iskow wrote:
> Jim Smith <jasm...@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> When did Bane start talking?
> >
> >Uh...he's been talking ever since I started reading comics with BATMAN
> >#490. Further research indicates he was talking in #489 as well. You
> >_missed_ this?
> >
>
> He sure wasn't talking that much *after* Knightfall.
He sure wasn't talking when he was catatonic. He's not now.
Try reading ROBIN #8. He awakes from stupor the moment Batman puts the
tights back on.
Then, for your reading pleasure, see how Bane gets back in shape in
VENGEANCE OF BANE II. He's off Venom, BTW.
Jim "You cannot do this to me!!! I-AM-BAAAAAANE!" Smith
Darren P. Shea
Sco...@cris.com (Scott Hollifield) wrote:
>Jim Smith (jasm...@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu) wrote:
>: > That was a cute bit with Snapper and Rick.
>
>: Now, was it "real" or was it just two guys who happen to be named
>: "Snapper" and "Rick"? (I really woulda thought Snapper was totaled in
>: Crisis)
>
Right. Snapper has teleportation powers he got from a meta-gene activated by
the Dominators during Invasion. I believe he last appeared (along with the
rest of the Blasters) about halfway through the Valor series.
Darren Shea -- ds...@eden.com darre...@fquest.com
Austin, Texas
Computer Lab
>This reminds me: Did anyone read SUPERMAN VS. MUHAMMED ALI? I always
>wanted to know who won that one...
Ali, I think. I can see it :)
>OK, well, I'd like to think Cap was deliberately trying to make this
>fight as cool as possible. I'm more than sure I wasn't the only one glad
>to see him pound Bane into the dirt (Anyone else shout, "Yeah, baby, yeah!"?)
>
I'll get to this later.
>> Here's how I see the next fights:
>>
>> Batman should destroy Cap. One lousy shield against Batman's gas
>> pellets? Please.
>
>As Mark Greunwald said in Wizard: "If Batman throws a stink bomb, Cap can
>just hold his breath"
>
>Mike Carlin: "While Batman hits him _harder_."
What the hell? Cap is STRONGER than Batman! And you both thought that Cap should have beat the crap out of Bane, yet you go with Batman? "One
lousy shield?" Umm, I'd take one lousy ADAMANTIUM LACED shield that
Wolverine couldn't cut through over some gas pellets _any_ day. Cap
SHOULD win, hands down. But alas, no one can forget that damn Captain
America movie. That alone gives it to Bruce.
--Justin, Keeper of the Cypher Flame
Mark Rathwell
So who won???????
: Gas pellets are not Batman's main weapon, if they were he would be just
: your average Joe Hero. Batman's greatest weapon and asset is his mind.
Agreed.
: Batman uses gas pellets and fists as tools in the fight. Several times
: Batman has fought people stronger than him and won.
There is more than strength at issue here. Bat-Man may be the
most advanced fighter in the DC Universe, but Captain America is the most
advanced fighter in the Marvel Universe. Translation ---> Batman will win
by using his head, because in a straight fist fight, Captain America
would take it. He's just as good as a fighter (if not better) and is most
certainly stronger, faster, more agile and more resistant to pain.
>> Mark <<
--
==============================================================================
M A R K A R A T H W E L L The University Of Guelph
mrat...@uoguelph.ca or av...@Freenet.Carleton.CA
If you ...
Have ever taken a fishing pole to Sea World,
Own a home that's mobile and four cars that aren't,
Have a mother who's Christmas list contains the word "ammo",
... you might be a REDNECK!
==============================================================================
Matt and Vicki Holmes
>Jim Smith <jasm...@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>>
>>
>>On 20 Jan 1996, Michael A. Chary wrote:
>>This reminds me: Did anyone read SUPERMAN VS. MUHAMMED ALI? I always
>>wanted to know who won that one...
>Ali, I think. I can see it :)
If I wasn't so damn lazy I'd look it up, but I recall it being "fixed"
in the sense that Ali and Kal-El arranged for Ali to win so that Supes
could take out the alien armada "behind the scenes". And if you've
never read the book and think I'm kidding.. I'm not!
It's a terrific book, IMO, beautifully illustrated by Neal Adams
(must've taken him years, considering his speed..) and with a good
moral at its centre.
Matt Holmes
mho...@mgl.ca
I love comics. I eat, sleep, and breathe comics.
I've also been known to live and die according to the most
recent New York Rangers game.
Harold T Leonard
In article <4e3mqg$r...@ccshst05.cs.uoguelph.ca>, mrat...@uoguelph.ca (Mark Rathwell) writes:
>: I think Supes turned off his powers or something.
>
> So who won???????
>
I think Ali won, but I have not read the book and got the info from
a Wizard list of best fights. and that was awhile ago. So, I'm not
sure.
H. Thomas Leonard III
MKeil
>Superman should *ream* Hulk, but of course the idiot vote will ruin
>that story.
Who the hell out there has any real justification for Hulk beating Supes?
And don't gimme that "Hulk gets stronger as he gets madder" stuff. That
was the OLD green Hulk (as the blatant exposition in #1 let everyone who
doesn't read his book know). Also, didn't Supes seem a bit out of
character in #1? Juggernaut accidentally rams the Daily Planet, stands
there rubbing his head confused, and Superman sucker punches him across
the street. Jumping to conclusions, there, Kent?
>Batman should destroy Cap. One lousy shield against Batman's gas
>pellets? Please.
Batman should win just on the basis that he's actually had some character
development in the last 50 years. Cap is, IMHO, one of the most boring
super heroes in the entire comics industry. Why he's up against someone
as big as Batman is beyond me. Batman vs. Venom would have been
interesting to see, too.
>Storm should crush Diana with lightning, of course Wonder Thor might
>nort care about lightning.
The fact that they had to give Diana Thor's powers to let her stand even
with Ororo is forfeiting the match in my book.
>The real Spiderman would crush Superboy, but now? Pick'em
Spidey will win, but Superboy should. He's a punk, but he could knock
Ben/Peter into one of the Legionaire titles with one good punch.
>Lobo should crush Wolverine.
Yeah, but as an X-Fan I hate to see Logan beaten by a ripoff of himself.
>Robin and Jubes will be interesting. I might give it to Jubes, but I
>doubt Tim will mind losing :)
I admit, this one I have no idea who'll win it. If he actually manages to
let himself hit Jubilee (gentleman/health male he is), he'd have an edge,
being a better fighter. Personally I'm most interested to see how this
works out.
>Elektra will kill Catwoman.
Hey, what's that big purple smear over there? DEAR GOD!!!
>Norrin Radd will decimate Kyle.
Any sane person knows this. But with DC's insistance that the Lantern
ring is "the most powerful weapon in the universe" and the fact that the
Surfer's not yellow, I'm worried. If the readers have any common sense,
SS won't even need to slow down the board to take Kyle out.
In parting, my condolences, Supes. Bruce Banner shouldn't be able to take
you down anymore than Doomsday (that was almost as big a joke as Hulk's
victory...).
~MK
"Fail and I'll have you shaved, sterilized, and destroyed." -- Brad Pitt
in "12 Monkeys"
Sean MacDonald
>>Lobo should crush Wolverine.
>
>Yeah, but as an X-Fan I hate to see Logan beaten by a ripoff of himself.
Lobo's no ripoff; he's a *parody*. Wolvie has gotten to be
quite ridiculous, but Lobo is even *more* ridiculous.
Wolvie's got a healing factor? Fine. Lobo comes back from
the dead. Wovlie's tough? Fine. Lobo killed his whole
planet. Etc, ad nauseum.
>
>
>>Norrin Radd will decimate Kyle.
>
>Any sane person knows this. But with DC's insistance that the Lantern
>ring is "the most powerful weapon in the universe" and the fact that the
>Surfer's not yellow,
Enough with the yellow, already. Geez. The new ring is *not*
vulnerable to yellow, ok? *not*. *vulnerable* *to* *yellow*
Of course, even us DC fans want Kyle to die. 8-)
>I'm worried. If the readers have any common sense,
^^^^^^^
You misspelled writers.
>SS won't even need to slow down the board to take Kyle out.
>
>In parting, my condolences, Supes. Bruce Banner shouldn't be able to take
>you down anymore than Doomsday (that was almost as big a joke as Hulk's
>victory...).
Yeah, but Doomsday's at least a Kryptonian. Hulk's just another
guy who can lift "at least 100 tons." Whee. Of course, PAD
writes hulk, whereas Supes is written by committee. PAD already
snuck in a win for "his" character, Aquaman...
-SM
Matthew Sommer
>ma...@po.CWRU.Edu (Michael A. Chary) writes:
>>Superman should *ream* Hulk, but of course the idiot vote will ruin
>>that story.
>Who the hell out there has any real justification for Hulk beating Supes?
>And don't gimme that "Hulk gets stronger as he gets madder" stuff. That
>was the OLD green Hulk (as the blatant exposition in #1 let everyone who
>doesn't read his book know). Also, didn't Supes seem a bit out of
>character in #1? Juggernaut accidentally rams the Daily Planet, stands
>there rubbing his head confused, and Superman sucker punches him across
>the street. Jumping to conclusions, there, Kent?
well, i havent been buying these books, i must admit, but I have read
them as i stood in the comic store... and i did read through that free
preview deal they handed out... and this one scene seemed so out of
character to me, that i pretty much figured the series was hopeless... I
mean, come on! Superman slugs somebody without even bothering to ask any
questions?! what IS this? Image-superman? I have dropped all the
superman books over the last year or so, and this seems like a crystal
clear reason of why... rather than say superman is OUT of character, I'd
say that he is perfectly IN character for the way he's been written lately.
>>Batman should destroy Cap. One lousy shield against Batman's gas
>>pellets? Please.
>Batman should win just on the basis that he's actually had some character
>development in the last 50 years. Cap is, IMHO, one of the most boring
>super heroes in the entire comics industry. Why he's up against someone
>as big as Batman is beyond me. Batman vs. Venom would have been
>interesting to see, too.
cap boring? hmmm... cant say as i agree. He's a cultural icon,
regardless, and since he's supposedly one of the best hand to hand
fighters in the marvel U, and batman is the best in DC, well, seems like
a good team up to me... granted, it's not exactly fair that cap has
enhanced strength and reflexes, and i think that gives him a physical
edge against bats... as for brains, i think bats has a better all around
mind, but cap has definite tactical genius... A more even match would
have been, as someone suggested, batman vs. daredevil... but this should
be an interesting contest.
you honestly find a spiderman ripoff villain created about 5 years ago to
be more interesting that an american icon?
>>Storm should crush Diana with lightning, of course Wonder Thor might
>>nort care about lightning.
>The fact that they had to give Diana Thor's powers to let her stand even
>with Ororo is forfeiting the match in my book.
my question is WHY are they giving her the stupid hammer? it's not like
she needs it... anyone who thinks storm is more powerful than diana hasnt
been reading the byrne run of WW... she is second only in the DCU to
superman in strength, can fly (thereby negating storm's only advantage--
striking from long distance), and while she may not be invulnerable, she
is tough as nails (anyone who can survive being tortured by darkseid ((at
a higher level than any mortal has stood before))gets my respect)
since these are being voted on though, logic has nothing to do with it. I
imagine the late aunt may could beat the living tribunal if it was voted
on ("living who!? aunt may kicks a$$!").
>>The real Spiderman would crush Superboy, but now? Pick'em
i think supes is stronger, can fly, AND has a telekinetic forde field
that will repulse spidey's webs and protect him from being hit
physically. but again, spidey wins the popularity vote.
>Spidey will win, but Superboy should. He's a punk, but he could knock
>Ben/Peter into one of the Legionaire titles with one good punch.
>>Lobo should crush Wolverine.
>Yeah, but as an X-Fan I hate to see Logan beaten by a ripoff of himself.
is he a rip-off? maybe in the whole ferocity thing, and overall
apearance... but over the last few years they've taken on quite different
powers, motivations, and characterization...
over the last few years, lobo has been shown to go toe to toe with
superman, maybe even winning sometimes... as soon as wolvie tries to use
those hokey bone claws of his, "snap crackle pop"... if he still had the
adamantium, i'd respect him a little more.... sides, you gotta respect
anyone who could take down santa that way ;)
>In parting, my condolences, Supes. Bruce Banner shouldn't be able to take
>you down anymore than Doomsday (that was almost as big a joke as Hulk's
>victory...).
heh heh.... anyone remember in Amazing Spider-Man a few years back when
spidey had the power of captain universe and he punched hulk into orbit?
:) i'd like to see supes pound this one-liner spewing mug...
-matt-
--
Mark Rathwell
It is possible for the Hulk to win. One hand-clap would send
Superman's 'Super ears' into agony, leaving him at the mercy of the
Hulk's big green fists. The Hulk also has his brain. I think Supes will
take the fight, but there are ways in which the Hulk could win.
: doesn't read his book know). Also, didn't Supes seem a bit out of
: character in #1? Juggernaut accidentally rams the Daily Planet, stands
: there rubbing his head confused, and Superman sucker punches him across
: the street. Jumping to conclusions, there, Kent?
I thought this too. Considering the amount of force that would be
required to knock the Juggernaut down, I'm surprised Superman attacked
someone he didn't know with such force.
: Batman should win just on the basis that he's actually had some character
: development in the last 50 years. Cap is, IMHO, one of the most boring
: super heroes in the entire comics industry. Why he's up against someone
: as big as Batman is beyond me. Batman vs. Venom would have been
: interesting to see, too.
I agree about Cap ... he never was one of my favorites either.
However, this is a hero vs. hero fight. Captain America is the world's
greatest hand to hand combantant, according to Marvel. The two heroes are
well matched ... more than Wolverine and Lobo are anyway.
: Spidey will win, but Superboy should. He's a punk, but he could knock
: Ben/Peter into one of the Legionaire titles with one good punch.
He'd have to hit him first. Since when are Superheroes sadists?
Charles Edwards
>>>Storm should crush Diana with lightning, of course Wonder Thor might
>>>nort care about lightning.
>
>>The fact that they had to give Diana Thor's powers to let her stand even
>>with Ororo is forfeiting the match in my book.
>
>my question is WHY are they giving her the stupid hammer? it's not like
>she needs it... anyone who thinks storm is more powerful than diana hasnt
>been reading the byrne run of WW... she is second only in the DCU to
>superman in strength, can fly (thereby negating storm's only advantage--
>striking from long distance), and while she may not be invulnerable, she
>is tough as nails (anyone who can survive being tortured by darkseid ((at
>a higher level than any mortal has stood before))gets my respect)
>
People seem to be missing the REAL reason that Diana has the hammer.
It certainly wasn't to make her even with Storm. They've have to cut WW's
powers by about 90% to do THAT! They gave WW the hammer in order to give
Storm a snowball's chance in Hell.
Consider: Diana is completely inexperienced with the power of the Thunder
God, while Storm has control over the weather. Assuming that Storm wins
the vote (she shouldn't...but she will) Storm will find some way to turn
the hammer's lightning abilities against WW. While Storm couldn't beat
WW in a straight fight, the power of Thor turned against Diana WILL do it.
Kent Sorochuk
>
> Any sane person knows this. But with DC's insistance that the Lantern
> ring is "the most powerful weapon in the universe" and the fact that the
> SS won't even need to slow down the board to take Kyle out.
Even if the Surfer was yellow it wouldn't matter. Kyles ring
doesn't have the vulnerability to yellow that the old rings had.
--
Kent Sorochuk bt...@freenet.carleton"
"Eating kittens is just plain wrong! And it shouldn't be Done!! EVER!!!"
-The Tick-
--<--{@
>On 20 Jan 1996, Michael A. Chary wrote:
>>
>> This is not a review.
>>
>> Hey, we got the fights this time :) I was remembering some of the
>> great fights I have seen while reading this and some of the great
>> confrontations as well. Ali/Frazier, Ali/Foreman, Hearns/Hagler,
>> Hogan/Bockwinkler, Magic/Bird, Phillies/Astros, Norris/Lee, stuff like
>> that.
>This reminds me: Did anyone read SUPERMAN VS. MUHAMMED ALI? I always
>wanted to know who won that one...
>>
>> Hmm, well the argument between the two cops might indicate that Gotham
>> is analogous to New York City.
>Given that Green Lantern and the Titans hang out in DC-New YOrk, I'd
>assume _New York_ is analagous to New York, and that the Box of Infinite
>Power is simply in different spots on different Earths.
>> Are Wolvie's claws not admantium anymore? I ask because the Wolvie I
>> know would have filleted Killer Croc, who's supposed to be off in the
>> Bayou with Swamp Thing anyway :)
>BATMAN CHRONICLES #3 brought Croc back, I hear.
>As for Wolvie, he had the adamantium literally _sucked_ out by ol'
>Magneto around X-MEN #25 or WOLVERINE #75 (I'm not sure which one came
>first). His healing factor is no longer inhibited by the metal, and he's
>becoming more feral.
>> When did Bane start talking?
>Uh...he's been talking ever since I started reading comics with BATMAN
>#490. Further research indicates he was talking in #489 as well. You
>_missed_ this?
>> There is no way on God's green earth that Captain America would have
>> let Bane get him in thyat position. Yeah, I know Bane did the same
>> thing to Batman, but I complained about it then too, and I have
>> witnesses :) (Greg? Dave? Senator?)
>OK, well, I'd like to think Cap was deliberately trying to make this
>fight as cool as possible. I'm more than sure I wasn't the only one glad
>to see him pound Bane into the dirt (Anyone else shout, "Yeah, baby, yeah!"?)
>> I thought the Batmobil had some sort of security lock?
>Batman _let_ them get in so he could see where they would go.
>> Who the heck is Thor praying to? He's a god.
>Odin.
>> Okay, I want to see the Omega effect blast Thanos. There is no way
>> Thanos can take Darkseid.
>Yeah, baby, yeah!
>> That was a cute bit with Snapper and Rick.
>Now, was it "real" or was it just two guys who happen to be named
>"Snapper" and "Rick"? (I really woulda thought Snapper was totaled in
>Crisis)
>> I found the Flash/Quicksilver fight disatisfying as well. Wally is a
>> million times faster than Pietro. He should have finished Quicksilver
>> off in a second. (Unless, of course, Pietro was accessing the Speed
>> Force :))
>Wally could have shoved his hand right through Pietro's head all right,
>but I tend to assume he didn't want to hurt him _too_ much.
>> There is no *way* that Aquaman would take down Namor.
>That's why Free Willy did instead :)
>> Oh, right, like Kingpin wouldn't recognize Peter Parker.
>He wouldn't if he'd dyed his hair. Of course, he seems to forget that
>when Marvel needs readers to think he's Peter...I mean, when Ben is
>working professionally...
>> Here's how I see the next fights:
>>
>> Superman should *ream* Hulk, but of course the idiot vote will ruin
>> that story.
>I'm assuming "ream" means "kick sorry green butt".
>Are you sure the vote will go to Hulk? Everything I've heard suggests
>Superman's got it made.
>> Batman should destroy Cap. One lousy shield against Batman's gas
>> pellets? Please.
>As Mark Greunwald said in Wizard: "If Batman throws a stink bomb, Cap can
>just hold his breath"
>Mike Carlin: "While Batman hits him _harder_."
>> Elektra will kill Catwoman.
>>
>> Norrin Radd will decimate Kyle.
>And Goldust will beat Razor Ramon for the belt.
what are you...a prophet or something? :)
>Jim "Whssssssssst! Goldusssst" Smith
Good answers!!!
*smile*
Sebastien D St-Jean
>
>
>This is not a review.
>
>Hey, we got the fights this time :) I was remembering some of the
>great fights I have seen while reading this and some of the great
>confrontations as well. Ali/Frazier, Ali/Foreman, Hearns/Hagler,
>Hogan/Bockwinkler, Magic/Bird, Phillies/Astros, Norris/Lee, stuff like
>
>spoilers ho :)
>
>
>is analogous to New York City.
>
>know would have filleted Killer Croc, who's supposed to be off in the
>Bayou with Swamp Thing anyway :)
Killer croc returned to gotham in "BATMAN CRONICLES #3"
>
>Uh oh, Henry's law was nearly invoked. When the characters complain
>about the writing you know you're in trouble. "You can't stop for
>exposition came awful close."
>
>You know who I think would have been neat to see do this whole
>crossover, no offense to PAD? Jim Starlin. I thought about that when I
>saw Darkseid facing Thanos. Of course, he';d kill everyone off, but
>he'd bring them back as well.
>
>When did Bane start talking?
He alwaise did.
>
>The WB Store "What's 'X --?'" bit was cute. :) (Those places are
>insideous, I have only ever been in them once and I ended up buying
>something. (A X-mas gift for my "sister" :))
>
>Gee, so much for the "It's just an interpretation" on Diana's
>costume. Wonder Woman's armor looks the same here as it does in
>"Wonder Woman."
>
>There is no way on God's green earth that Captain America would have
>let Bane get him in thyat position. Yeah, I know Bane did the same
>thing to Batman, but I complained about it then too, and I have
>witnesses :) (Greg? Dave? Senator?)
I also was suprised to see Cap. in this position, it makes me wonder how fast
Batman will defeat him? True Batman was once in the same position but he was
worn out at the time.
>
>Why is Bane's head smoking?
>
>I get the feeling we're missing a page wherein Batman and Nightwing
>face off against Gambit? PAD, you out there?
>
>I thought the Batmobil had some sort of security lock?
>
>Tim Drake got the best deal of any of these switches. :)
>
>If I were Robin, I'd challenge Jubes to a wrestling match :)
>
>Who the heck is Thor praying to? He's a god.
>
>Okay, I want to see the Omega effect blast Thanos. There is no way
>Thanos can take Darkseid.
>
>That was a cute bit with Snapper and Rick.
>
>Okay, the Thor/Shazam fight was contrived. Captain Marvel could easily
>have evaded the ferris wheel with the speed of mercury. In fact, Thor
>should never have been able to touch him, Marvel's so
>fast. Additionally, one would think Zeus' lightning could overwhelm
>Thor's weather control.
Although i am a DC fan and i wanted to see Cap. Marvel win, i thought this
fight was handled well, and i have no complaints.
>
>I sdincerelty hope Wondy doesn't have weather control powers against Storm.
>
>I found the Flash/Quicksilver fight disatisfying as well. Wally is a
>million times faster than Pietro. He should have finished Quicksilver
>off in a second. (Unless, of course, Pietro was accessing the Speed
>Force :))
>
>There is no *way* that Aquaman would take down Namor. Namor is fifteen
>times stronger than Aquaman. Of course, that guy with the hook ism't
>Aquaman, but still...
Uh, yes he is! And i said this before, he suprised Namor, leaving him
immobilized fo 2 to 3 sec. thus winning, wether he can get out or not is
irelevent.
>
>The way I was *hoping* this battle would go is that Aquaman would
>summon some of the monsters Namor used to used to attack the surface
>world. Instead of relying on a physical fight, he'd just overwhelm
>Namor with sea creatures. But one killer whale? Namor wouldn't even
>flinch is you drop one on top of him. A blue whale, maybe :)
>
>However, at 9 to 1 I would have bet on Arthur. Flash is not a 6 to 3
>favorite, he's a million to one favorite. Aunt May has a better chance
>of beating Michael Jordan at one on one hoops than Quicksilver has of
>beating Wally.
>
>Oh, right, like Kingpin wouldn't recognize Peter Parker.
>
>I'll be seriously annoyed if Diana khas weather powers for her fight
>with Storm.
>
>Okay, I suppose PAD did an okay job given the leg irons he was saddled
>with, but I would have it two to one in favor of DC via Cap, Flash,
>Namor rather than the way he has it. Cap and Flash are just way too
>fast for their respective opponents. And like I said, Namor should
>have squished Arthur like a bug. The only chance he had was telepathic
>communication with some real mean deep sea guy :)
>
>
>Here's how I see the next fights:
>
>Superman should *ream* Hulk, but of course the idiot vote will ruin
>that story.
>
>Batman should destroy Cap. One lousy shield against Batman's gas
>pellets? Please.
>
>Storm should crush Diana with lightning, of course Wonder Thor might
>nort care about lightning.
>
>The real Spiderman would crush Superboy, but now? Pick'em
>
>Lobo should crush Wolverine.
>
>Robin and Jubes will be interesting. I might give it to Jubes, but I
>doubt Tim will mind losing :)
>
>Elektra will kill Catwoman.
I wouldn't put it that way although she seems to have a few advantages, but
don't count Catwoman out to fast.
>
cyborg.
Sebastien D St-Jean
>>#490. Further research indicates he was talking in #489 as well. You
>>_missed_ this?
>>
>
>You hated how Bane crippled Bats and cancelled your readings for a year
>until Bruce came back.
>Anyone out there actually glad that they read the whole Quest/Search/End
>thingy?
>
>
when he was in a coma (understandable), before and after, he had plenty to say.
cyborg.
John J. Forbus, Super Genius
On 20 Jan 1996, Sweets wrote:
> Just wondering, does anyone see a tie or double knockout occuring? I
> mean, there are 11 matches (I believe) and we know that in crossovers
> like this, no one overall gets the better of the other.
Actually, in the Punisher/Batman crossover, Batman ended up with a fairly
decisive victory, in my opinion. Now, the Batman/Punisher (featuring
Jean Paul Valley) crossover end up with the Punisher _slightly_ ahead of
Batman, but it wasn't Bruce.
John Forbus
su...@doom.uark.edu
j...@engr.uark.edu
jfo...@comp.uark.edu
Nana Yaw Ofori
> Just to add a quirk to this argument....I don't know if any of you are
>aware that there are role playing games out that match the universes.
>I took the liberty one day of comparing the two, just to prove which universe
>was stronger....DC kicks Marvels ass...DC universe, by whatever twist of fate
>is three times more powerful than marvel...that is to say a normal human in DC
>is three times stronger than a normal human in Marvel..have fun with that one..
>Joshua
Okay, first things first...I'd like to say that the two RPG's have
little to no bearing on the comic reality of such battles. In the RPG's the
characters hace a set level of powers which you're sorta supposed to adhere
to. In comics, the powers fluctuate according to the whims of the writers.
I'm sure, Spider man, from time to time, has picked up objects weighing more
than 10 tons. I'm sure, from time to time, Wolverine has regenerated faster
than the book says he can. I'm sure, from time to time, Batman's used
gadgets that he's not listed as having. I can honestly say, for instance,
that there is No RPG out there, nor will there ever be, in which I would be
able to simulate you, or any person on this earth, with 100% Accuracy. RPG's
are made to be playable most often, considerably more often than they are
made to be realistic. RPG's don't directly follow reality, comic or otherwise.
Second, as a Person who's done conversions between game
systems...Namely, from AD&D to GURPS...In AD&D, your average person can lift
115 lbs. In GURPS, your average person can lift 250 lbs. So, when converting
adventures from AD&D to GURPS, should I convert according to lifting power?
Hell, no! The reason the two games have differences in the Strengths of
normal people is because the designers differed in their estimation of how
much a person can lift. If I just converted straight, then the AD&D Normal
People would be walked all over by the GURPS Normal people. Likewise, you
can't compare by straight lifting ability who's stronger in Marvel
Super-Heroes or DC Heroes...you'd have to compare using the standard that A
normal Person (Marvel) is equal to A normal Person (DC). Plus, since it's
extremely likely that neither game uses the same scale for strength,
comparing stats in two different game systems is about 20% Observation and
80% Estimaton.
In conclusion, It's my belief that comparing RPG's is useless except for
getting a basic idea of the abilites of the comic characters. How these
abilities are used comes from the writers, and not from the RPG designers.
God, I hope this all makes sense.
============== http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~beholder =================
<"}><_________ ___ _________ ___ ___ ___ |"Any sufficiently idiotic
/ ______/| / /| / _____/| / /| / /| / /| |collectible card game is
/ /|_____|// / // /_____|// /_/_/ / // / / |completely indistinguish-
/ ____/| / / //_____ /| / _____ / //__/ / |ible from Magic." <"}}}><
/ /|___|/ / / /_|____/ / // /|__/ / /_|__|/ |=========================
/__/ / /__/ //_______/ //__/ / /__/ //__/| | "Silly Cthulhu, Trix are
|__|/<"}}}><|__|/ |_______|/ |__|/ |__|/ |__|/ |for Ki--AAAAAARRRGGHH!!!"
==============================================================================
Nana Yaw "The Fish" Ofori ><{{{"> <+> <"}}}>< "Life's a Fish, then you Fry."
========================== beho...@engin.umich.edu ==========================
Nana Yaw Ofori
wrote:
>heh heh.... anyone remember in Amazing Spider-Man a few years back when
>spidey had the power of captain universe and he punched hulk into orbit?
>:) i'd like to see supes pound this one-liner spewing mug...
>
>-matt-
>
>--
>
I remember that (Mainy through reading the Spider-Man: The Cosmic
Adventures trade paperback. But you've brought and iteresting query to mind.
IIRC, tbe Captain Universe powers appear when the human race is in
unimaginable peril (or something like that) So, it stands to reason that in
this time when the Marvel Universe seems likely to cease to exist, that the
Captain Universe powers should manifest themselves. So where are they?
If they were to manifest, I've got two guesses as to who might be picked...
1) Storm: Realisticly, It's my opinion that Storm should be reduced, as
Jim "Insert Cool descriptive phrase here" Smith so nicely put it, to "Chunky
Salsa." Wonder Woman appears to way, way overpower Storm. And even with the
Immobilization ruling, I'd think that WW has an advantage akin to a
thirty-yard head start in the 50-meter dash. And now with the Powers of
Thor...well, let's just say it's gotten much, much, more unbalanced. I'd
think that thus, to more level the playing field, Storm could recieve the
Captain Universe powers. On the other hand, the powers just might swing the
contest to Imbalance in the other direction...
2) Wolverine. Lobo, from my limited reading of his exploits, does not
seem to have the word 'Immobilize' in his vocabulary. And from my, point of
view, he should make Wolverine into a state of Terrible, Horrible deadness.
Giving Wolvie the Captain Universe powers, however, would allow him to pull
off, somewhat realistically, the win that we all know he's going to take.
Either that, or he could just get Lobo drink enough so that he falls
unconscious...Can Wolverine get drunk? or does his body get rid of the toxin
too fast?
Ahh, well, those are my ideas, do what you will.
Keith
says...
>>
>>>ma...@po.CWRU.Edu (Michael A. Chary) writes:
>>
>
>>>>Storm should crush Diana with lightning, of course Wonder Thor might
>>>>nort care about lightning.
>>
>>>The fact that they had to give Diana Thor's powers to let her stand
even
>>>with Ororo is forfeiting the match in my book.
>>
>>my question is WHY are they giving her the stupid hammer? it's not
like
>>she needs it... anyone who thinks storm is more powerful than diana
hasnt
>>been reading the byrne run of WW... she is second only in the DCU to
>>superman in strength, can fly (thereby negating storm's only
advantage--
>>striking from long distance), and while she may not be invulnerable,
she
>>is tough as nails (anyone who can survive being tortured by darkseid
((at
>>a higher level than any mortal has stood before))gets my respect)
>>
>
>It certainly wasn't to make her even with Storm. They've have to cut
WW's
>powers by about 90% to do THAT! They gave WW the hammer in order to
give
>Storm a snowball's chance in Hell.
>
>Consider: Diana is completely inexperienced with the power of the
Thunder
>God, while Storm has control over the weather. Assuming that Storm wins
>the vote (she shouldn't...but she will) Storm will find some way to
turn
>the hammer's lightning abilities against WW. While Storm couldn't beat
>WW in a straight fight, the power of Thor turned against Diana WILL do
it.
>Somehow storm will have the power of Shazam, I think. That would even
the fight.
>
Trevor Barrie
>Spidey will win, but Superboy should. He's a punk, but he could knock
>Ben/Peter into one of the Legionaire titles with one good punch.
And of course, Spidey's such an easy target...
Mark Rathwell
: >Ben/Peter into one of the Legionaire titles with one good punch.
: And of course, Spidey's such an easy target...
I'm sure the Juggernaut had the same idea. Unfortunately, he
missed. And in a fight between Supertwirp and Juggie, my money is on Juggie.
Sebastien D St-Jean
>
>: >Spidey will win, but Superboy should. He's a punk, but he could knock
>: >Ben/Peter into one of the Legionaire titles with one good punch.
>
>: And of course, Spidey's such an easy target...
>
> I'm sure the Juggernaut had the same idea. Unfortunately, he
>missed. And in a fight between Supertwirp and Juggie, my money is on Juggie.
>
> >> Mark <<
>
If your talking about Juggernaut VS. Superboy, then i agree, however if your
talking about Superman, i do not agree.
cyborg.
yu11...@yorku.ca
>aware that there are role playing games out that match the universes.
>I took the liberty one day of comparing the two, just to prove which universe
>was stronger....DC kicks Marvels ass...DC universe, by whatever twist of fate
>is three times more powerful than marvel...that is to say a normal human in DC
>is three times stronger than a normal human in Marvel..have fun with that one..
>Joshua
Hence the theory that DC comics are 3 times BETTER than marvel comics...
<heh>...
M.J.M
Terry Hayes
Pleeeease, use common sense not rpg's. also from what i here is dc's rpg's
common humans are 3 times stronger than marvels, now does that makes sense,
and it doesn't mean its 3 times better.