MARVEL TWO-IN-ONE ANNUAL #7 -- A BIT OF OUR PAST REVIEW (THE CHAMPION VS. EVERYONE!)
GSims
Marvel Two-In-One Annual #7
The Champion Vs. The Thing/Hulk/Thor/WonderMan/Etc.
Hi,
In the ring this time around is Marvel Two-In-One Annual #7.
This issue features a boxing match for the fate of the world. In one
corner is The Champion, The Universal Champion. In the other corner,
stand the Strongest heroes of the Earth.
Before our match begins... a few notes:
This issue Guest Stars the Fantastic Four and The X-Men, in small
doses.
Let the Games Begin......
[NOTE] There is a complete story summary within. If you haven't read
the book, you may not want to read the summary.
Marvel Two-In-One Annual #7; 1982
"And They Shall Call Him... Champion!"
Writer -- Tom DeFalco
Pencils -- Ron Wilson
Inks -- Camp, Esposito, Giacoia, Green, Gil, and Stone
Letters -- Jim Novak
Colors -- George Roussos
Editor -- Jim Salicrup
EIC -- Jim Shooter
Synopsis:
Our story opens inside the art studio of Alicia Masters
(current long-time girlfriend of The Thing). Alicia, with Ben (Thing)
posing, is finishing a sculpture of him. As she finishes, the room
floods with light and a strange, sophisticated alien being appears.
He extends an offer to The Thing to fight The Champion, the best
fighter in all the known galaxies. After a little deliberation, The
Thing declines. The alien, as is Earth's custom (or Americans),
shakes hands with Ben. The minute their hands touch, they both
disappear, leaving Alicia alone.
At that precise moment, in Chicago, Dr. Don Blake turns into
thor to unwind after a busy day. As he swings high, Proja (The Alien
Being) appears and extends to Thor the same offer as he did to the
Thing.
Simultaneously, Proja appears to the Hulk, Namor, Colossus,
Wonder Man, Sasquatch, Doc Samson, and The Vision -- making the same
offer to each. However, upon learning that the Vision is a
synthoziod, Proja leaves without making the offer -- it seems that
only those within a humaniod life class may engage in battle with the
Champion.
Seconds later, eight of the most powerful beings in the world
all instantaneously appear out of nowhere in a futuristic boxing gym
of sorts. After making each others aquaintence, they begin to try to
get to the bottom of why they are there.
Namor, by far the most head-strong of them all, refuses to
stay and immediately busts through the gym wall only to find out that
the gym is floating within some starless void. He returns and,
seconds later, their 'jailer' appears -- The Champion. He tells them
how he has honored them above all by allowing them to do battle with
him. He continues to speak of how they 'all' enjoy the "thrill of
combat... to constantly push themselves to beyond their limits".
The heroes decide, instead, to take him out. In the scuffle,
The Champion explains that he is an Elder of the Universe and powers
the power primordial. With that, he blasts all of the heroes off him
without moving. Since they will not fight willingly, he threatens to
destroy Earth if they do not fight him. They concede, for the good of
the planet. Each hero is assigned an alien trainer, as they prepare
for the bout.
Meanwhile, on Earth, Reed Richards (Mr. Fantastic) is trying
to trace the alien residue that Proja left in Alicia's apartment. He
concludes that The Thing is in the hands of a being more powerful than
Galactus.
Elsewhere on Earth, The X-Men are discussing the kidnapping of
Colossus. No conclusions are drawn for the evidence left them.
Back at the gym, we get a glance at each constant in training.
The Hulk and Thor each prove their prowess easily. Doc Samson and
Namor, however, are sent back to Earth. Samson was knocked out by a
'living' boxing simulator computer. Namor refused to participate.
Colossus moves on through the training, following the lead of Thor and
The Thing. Sasquatch is looking forward to finally test the
upper-limits of his strength. Wonderman struggles with the fact that
he gave up super-heroing to become an actor and really shouldn't be
there. The Thing, on the other hand, easily rips through all of his
'robot' sparing partners.
On earth, Proja, negotiates quick deals with Cable and
Closed-Circuit TV to broadcast the event -- to be held at Madison
Square Garden. News quickly spreads and publications such as Sports
Illustrated, Time, and the Daily Bugle feature Cover story about the
event.
And now, the Fights Begin!
Thor is the first to fight. He instantly is plucked from the
space-gym and appears within the ring (with is encased in an
impenetrable force-field that the likes of Wolverine and Cyclops
cannot penetrate).
Thor holds his own very well but, when he chooses to use his
Hammer (whoever fights Thor must also fight Mjolnir) he is
disqualified and immediately returned to Chicago.
The Hulk is next up. [Note: Banner is in control of the
Hulk]. He decides that, to win, he must let the Hulk rage out. He
does so and moves in to rip the Champion apart. The Champion, who
will not let himself fight a mindless brute, dismisses the Hulk also.
Sasquatch is next in the rings. They tussle around and he
holds his own for about one round before the Champion knocks him out
cold.
Colossus is the next 'victim'. But, to everyone's surprise,
he will not fall. His pride will not allow it. However, the referee
stops the fight due to the fact that Colossus can no longer defend
himself.
Wonderman enters and, in the middle of the bout, the referee
disqualifies him due to the fact that he rips up the ring in a fit of
anger. Leaving only one left.... The Thing!
There is a brief break while aliens repair the ring.
Finally, The Thing enters the crowd and moves towards the
ring. Realizing that he is the last hope, he states, "I ain't the
strongest, or the toughest joe The Champion has ever fought -- But I
ain't gonna go down easy. He's gonna know he's been in a fight like
never before. Bet on it!"
The Thing holds his own and makes it to the end of round one.
He presses onward through round two. When he makes it to round three,
The Champion can't believe it. Never before has anyone made it that
long. The Thing cracks The Champions ribs with a blow and The Thing
asks if they can just call it even. The Champion knocks him back and
moves in pressing forward with blow after blow. The bell rings,
signaling the end of round three -- The Thing falls down. The referee
says that the Thing will never survive a fourth round so he declares
The Champion the winner.
The Champion hold up the Universal Champion Belt and is about
the decree that the Earth is not worthy of existence when, from
behind, The Thing -- battled and bloody -- crawls towards him. He
says, "This fight ain't over yet -- not by a long shot! Ya only won on
a technicality. Ya didn't really beat me! Ya'll never beat me! I'm
just too stupid.. and ugly... ta know when to quit!"
The Champion pauses.
He helps The Thing to his feet and says, "No, my friend, I
could never beat you. I could crush your bones and break your body...
but I would never conquer your spirit! Any world that could spawn one
such as you -- is truly the worthiest of all. I sense that one day my
people will battle yours for the total supremacy of the cosmos -- but
that will not be for eons to come!"
With that, The Champion takes his leave. The heroes of the
earth celebrate with the Thing in the ring.
Ding Ding Ding
The Good:
The Concept: Everybody loves big battles well done. Just look
at all the who'd win thread on the net. This was a grand one.
The Characterization of Colossus: This is how I loved
Colossus (until he was forever changed in UXM #211-#213). The young,
inexperienced hero... looking up to the others and following their
lead. Not one to think that strength = power.
The Characterization of The Thing: I always loved his never
say die spirit. I remember reading this years back when it first came
out and wanting to be like The Thing. It's a guy thing. A Rocky
Balboa thing. Not the strongest guy but never giving up... even when
beaten and bloody.
The Art: Not as 'flashy' as todays styles but definitely
great. Good storytelling through his panels, etc.
The Bad:
The Dialogue: Not totally bad, so to speak, just clunky at
times: "Come on Thing, Do it fer ole Earth!.
The disqualifications of Thor and Hulk! I remember thinking
that if they weren't disqualified that they would have ripped him
apart. I remember being dissatisfied by this in my younger years. I
REALLY wanted to see what the Hulk or Thor would have/could have done
to The Champion. How about a rematch!!
The Questions:
What is the strength class for these individuals? I remember
that in the OHOFMU, Hulk is 100+, Thor is 100+, Thing was 90-99,
Colossus was 10 (really surprising me -- he's 100 now isn't he?),
Samson was 40 (?), Wonderman 80 (?), Namor 70 (In Water) (?). I
remembering thinking back then that Samson should be with them all
because he was so significantly weaker than them.
The last time I read a story with the Champion in it was
Thanos Quest #1 (or #2). Has he appeared since this?
Is this story in continuity? Or did it never happen...
How strong is the Vision to have been considered for the fight
(until it was found out the he was a synthozoid)?
Sports Illustrated and Time magazine are featured in the Story
(on one page). Does anyone know how this works regarding use of
property?
Who'd win in a no-holds-barred match of strength between The
Champion and any one of these heroes? Just strength, no energy blasts
(but Thor could use his hammer).
How about The Champion versus all of them?
The Rating: Classic/Hunt it Down (If you like Battle Issues, it's a
classic!)
[NOTE] The rating scale is as follows:
Classic (Books like this make me proud to be a comic reader), Hunt it
down (Very Good read), Keep it if you got it (Average), Sell it back
to the store (Poor)
So, what thought you, folks?
Garrett
NEXT REVIEW: Secret Wars I, #? I haven't made up my mind.
Suggestions?
Garrett
402-291-8700 -- An SCS affiliate
"I'm Idaho" -- Ralph, from The Simpsons
jsm...@imap1.asu.edu
GSims (gs...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
:
: The Questions:
: What is the strength class for these individuals? I remember
: that in the OHOFMU, Hulk is 100+, Thor is 100+, Thing was 90-99,
: Colossus was 10 (really surprising me -- he's 100 now isn't he?),
: Samson was 40 (?), Wonderman 80 (?), Namor 70 (In Water) (?). I
: remembering thinking back then that Samson should be with them all
: because he was so significantly weaker than them.
Actually, Thing is in the 80-85 ton range. Wondy is in the 90 ton range,
Namor is in the 70 ton range out of water (100 ton range in water),
Samson has recently been revealed to be in the 70 ton range (otherwise,
how could he have knocked out the Hulk before, was the rationale).
Colossus was in the 70-80 ton range (I forget exactly where) though since
the Marauder/locked in steel form stuff in X-Men, he's in the 100 ton range.
: The last time I read a story with the Champion in it was
: Thanos Quest #1 (or #2). Has he appeared since this?
I don't think so.
: Is this story in continuity? Or did it never happen...
It's in continuity. The Thing mentions it in Silver Surfer v.2 (or is it
v.3?) #1, when the Champion shows up trying to kill SS.
: How strong is the Vision to have been considered for the fight
: (until it was found out the he was a synthozoid)?
I think he's in the 40 ton range at maximum density.
: Who'd win in a no-holds-barred match of strength between The
: Champion and any one of these heroes? Just strength, no energy blasts
: (but Thor could use his hammer).
From the look of this issue, I'd say Champion, but (having not read this
Champion story, but having read almost all subsequent ones) it looks like
Champion has been retconned into being much weaker than depicted here.
I'd say Thor would stand the best chance against him, and might actually
beat him. Hulk might, too, if he stays in long enough to get pissed off
and tear up Champion.
: How about The Champion versus all of them?
With the depowering of Champion? I'd say Champion loses, but it would
cause some major property damage. Damage Control, where are you?
--
------------------------
Cthuludrew, the Great Old One
(aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered college student)
Church of Jimmy Buffett
"Actions have consequences."
Doom8008
The Champion was in SS 9,10, and in a story in SS 15-19, SS, and one of
SS's issues in the #90's
Peter Meilinger
In rec.arts.comics.marvel.universe GSims <gs...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> Marvel Two-In-One Annual #7
> The Champion Vs. The Thing/Hulk/Thor/WonderMan/Etc.
> Hi,
> In the ring this time around is Marvel Two-In-One Annual #7.
I snipped the rest of the review, which was quite good. I'll have to
go back and reread this tonight.
My reason for posting is to tell everyone who has the Cartoon Network to
watch Dexter's Laboratory. The middle cartoon is often a feature called
"Dial M For Monkey" that is always hilarious and once featured an obvious
plagiarism of this very story!
It was just about the funniest thing I've ever seen, and I'm not even
exaggerating. Instead of the Champion the bad guy was an intergalactic
hunk named Rasslor, voiced by the incomparable Macho Man Randy Savage!
You have not lived until you've heard his final soliloquy, which is almost
word for word from the comic. It's especially funny considering Monkey
is really not an imposing physical specimen, unless you're afraid of
spider monkeys in stupid costumes.
If you can, watch Dexter's Lab. They might never show this episode again,
of course, so here's what I'm gonna do. If you want to see this, email me
and we'll figure it out. I can make copies no problem (as soon as I find
my tape), but please note that I don't want to make any money off this.
I'd just ask for postage and for you to provide the tape. Trust me, it's
worth it.
Pete
have clue--will travel
In article <33c32226...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>,
GSims <gs...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>The Questions:
>
> What is the strength class for these individuals? I remember
>that in the OHOFMU, Hulk is 100+, Thor is 100+, Thing was 90-99,
>Colossus was 10 (really surprising me -- he's 100 now isn't he?),
>Samson was 40 (?), Wonderman 80 (?), Namor 70 (In Water) (?). I
>remembering thinking back then that Samson should be with them all
>because he was so significantly weaker than them.
Colossus was around 70 tons at the time. Samson was more like
20-25 then -- truly the lightweight of the bunch.
(where was the Jugs when we needed him?)
> Is this story in continuity?
Yes. There was an issue of Marvel Two-In-One that followed soon after
with Benjy in the hospital, due to injuries sustained in this bout
and previous superfights. Hordes of villains descended upon the
hospital, hordes of heroes turned up to protect him, a lot of
obscure villains make appearances, and there's a major battle royal
until one villain makes it inside...
(that's in the #90s, #92 I think, and is worth finding)
jeff. share and enjoy.
--
--- If you look very, very closely, you can see Edward R. Murrow. ---
http://www.netaxs.com/~vsp/ -- games, wantlists, weirdness archives. ECW!
"Remember, there's no problem so complex it can't be solved by killing
everyone even remotely associated with it." -- ljd, Scorched Earth Party
JL
have clue--will travel <v...@unix3.netaxs.com> wrote in article
<5p98ce$h...@netaxs.com>...
> > Is this story in continuity?
>
> with Benjy in the hospital, due to injuries sustained in this bout
> and previous superfights. Hordes of villains descended upon the
> hospital, hordes of heroes turned up to protect him, a lot of
> obscure villains make appearances, and there's a major battle royal
> until one villain makes it inside...
>
> (that's in the #90s, #92 I think, and is worth finding)
>
> jeff. share and enjoy.
>
I think it was #96 as for some reason it strikes me that it was ten issues
after the Sandman appearance in #86...We also saw later in Fantastic Four
that Tyros (the former Terrax) was in the same hospital and was grabbed by
Doctor Doom's men...
(this is also probably the most obscure appearance of Screaming Mimi before
Thunderbolts, as if all of her appearances weren't obscure...)
Pedro Ramos
gs...@ix.netcom.com (GSims) wrote:
> Our story opens inside the art studio of Alicia Masters
>(current long-time girlfriend of The Thing). Alicia, with Ben (Thing)
>posing, is finishing a sculpture of him.
Posing to a blind sculptor?
Bala Menon
Pedro Ramos <psr...@mail.telepac.pt> wrote in article
<33b83343...@news.telepac.pt>...
> gs...@ix.netcom.com (GSims) wrote:
>
> > Our story opens inside the art studio of Alicia Masters
> >(current long-time girlfriend of The Thing). Alicia, with Ben (Thing)
> >posing, is finishing a sculpture of him.
>
> Posing to a blind sculptor?
Yep. She sculpts her models by touch, as well as by description. Ben
is one of the few of her models who'd be willing to spend so much time
immobile for her sake.
--
Bala Menon (b.m...@worldnet.att.net)
Ryan
GSims <gs...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<33c32226...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>...
> Marvel Two-In-One Annual #7
> The Champion Vs. The Thing/Hulk/Thor/WonderMan/Etc.
>
>
> The Champion pauses.
> He helps The Thing to his feet and says, "No, my friend, I
> could never beat you. I could crush your bones and break your body...
> but I would never conquer your spirit! Any world that could spawn one
> such as you -- is truly the worthiest of all. I sense that one day my
> people will battle yours for the total supremacy of the cosmos -- but
> that will not be for eons to come!"
> With that, The Champion takes his leave. The heroes of the
> earth celebrate with the Thing in the ring.
> Ding Ding Ding
>
My people will battle yours????? Waitaminute isn't the Champion an Elder so
by the official definition he is the last survivor of his race. I'd hate
to be so nitpicky but it comes at such a pivotal point in the story that it
ruins the sense of immersion. But on that note, were the Elders of the
universe established yet? I know they played an important role in the
early issues of Silver Surfer Vol. 3 but were they around before then or
were they retconned into the cosmic order. Still it is a minor quibble and
I am such a DeFalco fanboy that it doesn't stop this issue from being a
classic.
Ryan
jsm...@imap1.asu.edu
Ryan (rmp/119...@interramp.com) wrote:
: My people will battle yours????? Waitaminute isn't the Champion an Elder so
: by the official definition he is the last survivor of his race. I'd hate
: to be so nitpicky but it comes at such a pivotal point in the story that it
: ruins the sense of immersion.
He could very well have been referring to his "people", ie. the other
Elders of the Universe. They do refer to one another as brothers, even
though they are not related.
: But on that note, were the Elders of the universe established yet? I
: know they played an important role in the early issues of Silver Surfer
: Vol. 3 but were they around before then or were they retconned into the
: cosmic order. Still it is a minor quibble and I am such a DeFalco
: fanboy that it doesn't stop this issue from being a classic.
They were around before then. The Collector showed up in very early Avengers
stories, and he is one of the Elders. I don't know if they established
that right away, but I'd say that it was likely established at some point
prior to this particular debut of Champion's.
GreyWolf
On Mon, 30 Jun 1997 03:59:37 GMT, gs...@ix.netcom.com (GSims) wrote:
>Marvel Two-In-One Annual #7
>The Champion Vs. The Thing/Hulk/Thor/WonderMan/Etc.
>
>Hi,
>
>In the ring this time around is Marvel Two-In-One Annual #7.
>
>This issue features a boxing match for the fate of the world. In one
>corner is The Champion, The Universal Champion. In the other corner,
>stand the Strongest heroes of the Earth.
>
>Before our match begins... a few notes:
>
>This issue Guest Stars the Fantastic Four and The X-Men, in small
>doses.
>
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Is it just me, or were comics really, really, REALLY awesome back
then? It's funny, I remember going to a pawn shop (I lived in a
hick-town back then, and only the pawn shop and the grocery store had
comics. The pawn shop had a better selection!) and buying this issue.
I also remember buying the MARVEL TEAM-UP Annual (which, if I'm
remembering correctly, featured the Serpent Society).
It's funny, because on that same trip to the pawn store, I bought a
jacket for $.50 too. It was an ugly looking jacket, but I liked it
for some reason. Strange, what comic-book memories can bring
back..... :)
Dave
Robert Wicks
On 2 Jul 1997 jsm...@imap1.asu.edu wrote:
> : But on that note, were the Elders of the universe established yet? I
> : know they played an important role in the early issues of Silver Surfer
> : Vol. 3 but were they around before then or were they retconned into the
> : cosmic order. Still it is a minor quibble and I am such a DeFalco
> : fanboy that it doesn't stop this issue from being a classic.
>
> They were around before then. The Collector showed up in very early Avengers
> stories, and he is one of the Elders. I don't know if they established
> that right away, but I'd say that it was likely established at some point
> prior to this particular debut of Champion's.
I'm not sure when it was revealed, but AFAIR the Grandmaster does refer to
himself as an Elder during the Contest of Champions, which I think came
out around the same time as MTIO Annual #7. I think CoC was where it was
revealed that the Elders know each other or have some kind of
relationship.
Other Elders which were around before Champion were the Contemplator,
Gardener, and the Possessor.
M-S-C-L
"You have the option of insanity. I do not! And that makes me
crazy!!!" - Brian Krakow
MY SO CALLED LIFE
Bob Kennedy
Robert Wicks wrote:
>
> I'm not sure when it was revealed, but AFAIR the Grandmaster does refer to
> himself as an Elder during the Contest of Champions, which I think came
> out around the same time as MTIO Annual #7. I think CoC was where it was
> revealed that the Elders know each other or have some kind of
> relationship.
In Contest of Champions, the Grandmaster claims that he and the
Collector are brothers; the whole idea of "Elders of the Universe"
wasn't really spelled out until the Englehart run of _Silver Surfer_ a
few years later. If either of these characters called themselves
"Elders of the Universe" before then, it was in a much less formal
sense.
>
> Other Elders which were around before Champion were the Contemplator,
> Gardener, and the Possessor.
Also, Ego the Living Planet is an established Thor character from the
late 60s. I think the only Elders introduced after Champion were Runner
and Devastator (although I haven't followed the characters at all since
Surfer #12).
>
--Bob K in DC
jsm...@imap1.asu.edu
Bob Kennedy (bobk...@erols.com) wrote:
: In Contest of Champions, the Grandmaster claims that he and the
: Collector are brothers; the whole idea of "Elders of the Universe"
: wasn't really spelled out until the Englehart run of _Silver Surfer_ a
: few years later. If either of these characters called themselves
: "Elders of the Universe" before then, it was in a much less formal
: sense.
The Elders of the Universe got an entry in the OHOTMU long before they
showed up in Silver Surfer v.2?3? (whatever the current volume is). They
existed as an organization well before Englehart did his long running
story on them in early SS issues.
: Also, Ego the Living Planet is an established Thor character from the
: late 60s. I think the only Elders introduced after Champion were Runner
: and Devastator (although I haven't followed the characters at all since
: Surfer #12).
Obliterator, Astronomer, Trader (all introduced in the early SS issues by
Englehart). Healer (in an issue of Quasar).
Also, note that Ego is seemingly only an honorary member, as he doesn't
fit the qualification of being one of the first sentient races of the
universe (I believe Englehart pointed this out in a letter column in an
issue of SS).
Bob Kennedy
jsm...@imap1.asu.edu wrote:
>
> The Elders of the Universe got an entry in the OHOTMU long before they
> showed up in Silver Surfer v.2?3? (whatever the current volume is). They
> existed as an organization well before Englehart did his long running
> story on them in early SS issues.
No, IIRC, they weren't listed at all in the first volume of OHOTMU (They
might have gotten a mention in the text appendix but never as any formal
organization; that was an Englehart invention), and the second volume
cited those early Surfer issues as the first appearance for many of the
members.
>
>
> Obliterator, Astronomer, Trader (all introduced in the early SS issues by
> Englehart). Healer (in an issue of Quasar).
I'd forgotten about Astronomer and Trader.
--Bob K in DC
jsm...@imap1.asu.edu
Bob Kennedy (bobk...@erols.com) wrote:
: No, IIRC, they weren't listed at all in the first volume of OHOTMU (They
: might have gotten a mention in the text appendix but never as any formal
: organization; that was an Englehart invention), and the second volume
: cited those early Surfer issues as the first appearance for many of the
: members.
They were in the second edition of the OHOTMU, and had all (save for the
Obliterator, Astronomer, Trader and Ego-as-Elder) appeared somewhere
prior to the Englehart issues of SS. I recall because the SS entry that
came some 6 or 7 issues later still had SS trapped on earth. SS didn't
get his own series until sometime after issue #10 of the OHOTMU.
They have an entry under Elders of the Universe, right after Ego the
Living Planet in issue #4 of the OHOTMU. I recall thinking at the time
that Ego should be one of them; apparently Englehart had the same
thought, as he later made the Living Planet an Elder.
bobk...@erols.com
In article <5q45dd$g...@news.asu.edu>,
jsm...@imap1.asu.edu wrote:
>
> They were in the second edition of the OHOTMU, and had all (save for the
> Obliterator, Astronomer, Trader and Ego-as-Elder) appeared somewhere
> prior to the Englehart issues of SS. I recall because the SS entry that
> came some 6 or 7 issues later still had SS trapped on earth. SS didn't
> get his own series until sometime after issue #10 of the OHOTMU.
>
I don't have any of the relevant comics at hand, so my two sources here
are (1) my admittedly creaky memory and (2) a ten-year-old edition of the
_Overstreet_ guide. Since we both agree that the Elders were covered
comprehensively on Volume 2 of _OHOTMU_, I check the guide to see that as
of 1987, _OHOTMU_ vol. 1 is still in progress up to issue 20 (I think
vol. 1 had 24 issues), the Elders had been introduced as a group already
(They list 10 issues of Englehart's _Surfer_, and he did the first 12
issues, introducing the Elders around issue #3). Volume 2 of OHOTMU came
out at least a year after Vol. 1 finished up.
And yes, most of the members were established characters long before
Englehart started calling them the Elders of the Universe. Grandmaster
and Collector were the first ones to use the term, but in a much less
informal sense (one that could as easily have applied to Galactus or the
Stranger or any other really old cosmic entities before Englehart gave
them a definite name, membership and clubhouse).
> They have an entry under Elders of the Universe, right after Ego the
> Living Planet in issue #4 of the OHOTMU. I recall thinking at the time
> that Ego should be one of them; apparently Englehart had the same
> thought, as he later made the Living Planet an Elder.
>
Again, I'm pretty sure you mean Vol. 2, which came out a year or two
after the group was formally introduced, as opposed to Vol. 1, which came
out a few months before. Volume 2 had some substantial changes from vol.
1 (Remember the Avengers listing that counted Angel and Iceman as members
in Vol. 1?).
--Bob Kennedy
Washington, DC
Not this nitpicky in real life
> ------------------------
> Cthuludrew, the Great Old One
> (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered college student)
> Church of Jimmy Buffett
> "Actions have consequences."
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