Johanna's Capsules: Scary Godmother, Private Beach, Girl Genius, GA, Avengers, X-Force, more
Johanna Draper Carlson
GIRL GENIUS #4
GREEN ARROW #7
MIGHTY EYEBALL #6
PRIVATE BEACH #3
SCARY GODMOTHER #3 (of 6)
THE WAITING PLACE #10
X-FORCE #119
AVENGERS #45
Writer: Kurt Busiek
Artists: Manuel Garcia & Bob Layton
32 color pages
Marvel Comics, $2.25
Yet again, Kang is pontificating about how he's the ultimate ruler. If this
war is so all-fired epic and important, how come whenever I check in the
Avengers aren't actually doing anything? Someone told me that this
never-ending Kang war isn't over until #50; if true, that illustrates the
dangers of plotting by issue number, as we still have four more issues of
padding to go. This one's worse than many, as the Avengers mostly talk a lot
to remind the reader of everyone's reason for angst. This one's an
alcoholic, that one's a failed husband, the other's an immortal. Useful for
reference, perhaps, but not very entertaining.
(I know, I know, if I dislike it so much, why do I keep reading it? In this
case, it's because I'm reading the entire Avengers run from the beginning --
I'm up to the 40s -- and I thought that might put this in perspective. It
did. I'd prefer to read the issues from before I was born, cardboard
scripting and all. At least in those issues, something happened!)
GIRL GENIUS #4
Story by Phil & Kaja Foglio
Pencils by Phil Foglio
40 color pages
Studio Foglio, $3.95
Color makes this book much more readable, although the lack of an inker
credit is odd. I think they're coloring the pencils without cleaning them
up, which makes for a certain rough look. (Still, in a world where HEROBEAR
AND THE KID, which doesn't even bother to erase construction lines, can be
applauded for its unique look, this scratchiness in the art shouldn't bother
anyone too much.) The brightness of the color palette is at odds with the
steampunk setting of the book, but it's fine if you consider this as a
humorous adventure comic.
There's an opening text prologue that's very helpful in knowing what's
happened so far. I read the previous issues, and I still learned things I
didn't know. It's kind of a stretch to take Agatha as a capable lead when
she spends a quarter of the book in her underwear being manipulated by those
around her, but by the end of the issue she's a little more aware. The
pacing is somewhat slow; we're four issues in, and the conflict is still
being set up. I still don't know whether this is something I want to follow,
but it's nice enough as an occasional read.
GREEN ARROW #7
Writer: Kevin Smith
Penciller: Phil Hester
Inker: Ande Parks
32 color pages
DC Comics, $2.50
Wow! An explanation! It doesn't yet make sense -- heck, it isn't yet
complete -- but some kind of reasoning behind what's been going on is a
friendly gesture on the author's part at this point. Let's ignore that it
contradicts most of what we know about the characters involved and that Hal
Jordan is once again doing the same thing that turned him into a villain in
the first place while supposedly serving a higher power.
Mr. Smith is still writing all his characters with the same smart aleck
voice, even the Spectre, voice of God himself, but the art is beginning to
grow on me. I still can't figure out the target audience for this book; the
only ones who know the history referenced will recognize how out of
character the protagonists are. Anyone necessary to Mr. Smith's story is
automatically toughter or scarier or just more right than anyone else.
MIGHTY EYEBALL #6
by Rurik Tyler
16 B&W pages
Big Card Comics, $2.69
A giant eyeball with legs fights a robot while they yell back and forth
about some plan to get rich and use sound effects as weapons. As a
stand-alone, this is kind of pointless, although professionally done. As a
chapter in a larger story, it might be interesting, but I don't know how
much more there is or whether anything different happens.
Big Card is a great name for the company, since this feels more like an
expanded trading card than a full comic book. In fact, it's the artist's
intention to simply elaborate on the cover painting and be silly. It's
well-meant nonsense; if you're interested, there's more information at
http://www.mightyeyeball.com.
PRIVATE BEACH #3
by David Hahn
24 B&W pages
Slave Labor Graphics, $2.95
The conversational slice-of-life book continues with the introduction of
more of Trudy's friends. After they play golf, they visit a home-bound
friend, and then Trudy goes on a mysterious interview with many other women
who resemble her.
The characters are well-delineated, seeming like real people, both good and
bad. Mr. Hahn's got a very observant eye that translates into his work as
just the right statement or gesture for his characters. In drawing everyday
life, he includes detail -- enough to differentiate a roomful of similar
looking women -- without making the art fussy or overdone. Instead, there's
a clean style. The only part I don't understand is his unique artistic tic
of giving all of his characters dots around their eyes. I think they're
supposed to be shadows, but they look like slipped bindhi.
The two-page backup story, "Creator Appearance", captures the mood swings of
an artist visiting a comic book store and watching a customer. It's almost
longer to describe than it is to read, because he packs a lot into the 12
panels. As with the rest of the book, it's very well-done.
SCARY GODMOTHER #3 (of 6)
by Jill Thompson
24 B&W pages
Sirius Entertainment, $2.95
Since we're midpoint on the miniseries, it's time for some plot twists...
and they run the gamut. While Scary Godmother's impersonator attends the
witches' conference, providing space for numerous creative character designs
and convention jokes, Orson finds himself prisoner of a once-great vampire
teacher gone bad.
The mayhem, business, and chaos of a summer convention is captured well by
Ms. Thompson. The frenzied activity is shown without the reader getting lost
or confused in the art. The witch characters, even though they're filler,
are individual and distinctive in look and action. Like the imposter, the
reader may be a bit overwhelmed, but I found that fun. I enjoy comics where
you learn more on a reread.
The mood changes greatly among the variety of scenes, from confusion to
Hannah's despair at her cousin's unfair behavior to the fear of the young
vampires, yet the transitions somehow fit in the larger picture. That's
probably due to the theme of the story. Since Scary Godmother was a mistfit
who made good, there's room for lots of approaches to life (and comics).
It's always a treat to see one of Ms. Thompson's kid-safe illustrated
recipes, too. My only complaint is that the issue is over too soon!
THE WAITING PLACE #10
Written by Sean Kelley McKeever
Art by Mike Norton
24 B&W pages
Slave Labor Graphics, $2.95
As the series starts wrapping up (it's projected to end with #12), we're
suddenly reminded that there is a non-white character in the town, and it
turns out that he's also got an older brother whose shadow he's always lived
in. This run of the series has generally alternated between plot points that
are either too obvious or too overly dramatic to be believable, and this
issue is no exception. The resentment of an older brother could be
interesting if it had more purpose. Instead, in place of new insight, it's a
Saturday morning teencom cliche.
The other events shown this issue fall into the unbelievable bucket. The
older kid having his dream career dropped in his lap and the shy new kid
having to juggle two girlfriends break the frame of the setting. Frankly,
these plotlines read to me too much like the author's wish fulfillment. I
know it's tough to capture the rhythms of small-town life realistically in a
bimonthly comic, but these events seem to belong in some other book
altogether.
I keep reading this book because there aren't enough others like it for me
to switch to. I'd love to see more exploration of a regular guy's life, or
what it's like living in a small town, or a group of high school kids
growing up and facing the real world. However, I can't honestly say I'll
miss this one; reading an issue is usually bittersweet at best.
X-FORCE #119
Writer: Peter Milligan
Artist: Michael Allred
32 color pages
Marvel Comics, $2.25
Well, that was quick. I wasn't sure how long I could keep my enthusiasm for
an X-book, even one as individual as this one, and I've already lost
interest. I think it's a combination of the never-ending plotting (which
starts reading as a bizarre game of "can you top this" the writer is playing
with himself), the events too outrageous even for a superhero satire (the
X-Force handlers are controlling, manipulating bastards, but they don't keep
an eye on the team long enough to determine whether they'd even acquired
their goal), or the cartoony writing (with the leader stripping down to
accomplish his goal, the dying bequest, and the troubled girl seeking to
escape her rural past). Some resolution, some purpose, would be much
appreciated.
Johanna Draper Carlson joh...@comicsworthreading.com
Reviews of Comics Worth Reading -- http://www.comicsworthreading.com
Sean Walsh
news:89bum9...@enzym.rnd.uni-c.dk...
> GREEN ARROW #7
> Writer: Kevin Smith
> Penciller: Phil Hester
> Inker: Ande Parks
> 32 color pages
> DC Comics, $2.50
>
> some stuff snippity snip-snipped
>
> Mr. Smith is still writing all his characters with the same smart aleck
> voice, even the Spectre, voice of God himself, but the art is beginning to
> grow on me. I still can't figure out the target audience for this book;
the
> only ones who know the history referenced will recognize how out of
> character the protagonists are. Anyone necessary to Mr. Smith's story is
> automatically toughter or scarier or just more right than anyone else.
Well, we could just say "That's what death does to some people..." ;p
Sean
:)
> MIGHTY EYEBALL #6
> by Rurik Tyler
> 16 B&W pages
> Big Card Comics, $2.69
Rurik Tyler...good gosh, it's been a while since I've seen his name in a
comic...
Sean
:)
--
"Don't fuck with the Jedi Master..." - Mark Hamill, 'J&SBSB'
New Gods Library: http://fastbak.tripod.com
Quantum Piett! http://www.geocities.com/quantumpiett/
My latest eBay auctions: http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/slwalsh/
Alan Travis
Sean, please watch your followups. There's nothing about Marvel in your reply.
Alan
Alan Travis
> AVENGERS #45
> Writer: Kurt Busiek
> Artists: Manuel Garcia & Bob Layton
> 32 color pages
> Marvel Comics, $2.25
>
> Yet again, Kang is pontificating about how he's the ultimate ruler. If this
> war is so all-fired epic and important, how come whenever I check in the
> Avengers aren't actually doing anything? Someone told me that this
> never-ending Kang war isn't over until #50; if true, that illustrates the
> dangers of plotting by issue number, as we still have four more issues of
> padding to go. This one's worse than many, as the Avengers mostly talk a lot
> to remind the reader of everyone's reason for angst.
>
> GIRL GENIUS #4
> Story by Phil & Kaja Foglio
> Pencils by Phil Foglio
> 40 color pages
> Studio Foglio, $3.95
>
> The pacing is somewhat slow; we're four issues in, and the conflict is still
> being set up. I still don't know whether this is something I want to follow,
> but it's nice enough as an occasional read.
Two comics that seem to be suffering from the same problem in your opinion. One
is titled Avengers and gets blasted. One is entitled Girl Genius and is nice
enough. Interesting.
Alan
Johanna Draper Carlson
I'm surprised I didn't hear from you last week, when the Marvels got the
best reviews out of the bunch I did.
> Two comics that seem to be suffering from the same problem in your opinion.
Not really, no. I don't suspect Girl Genius of waiting around until an
anniversary issue number to actually get the plot going, for one thing, and
for another, there's a distinction between simply being slow and feeling
padded, as Avengers does. Additionally, Girl Genius doesn't have the problem
of everyone just standing around talking; there's a good amount of action to
balance it, which I think is a good idea for an adventure book.
Johanna Draper Carlson joh...@comicsworthreading.com
Reviews of Comics Worth Reading -- http://www.comicsworthreading.com
Newly updated: Private Beach, Scary Godmother, Waiting Place, Avengers,
Girl Genius, Green Arrow, Mighty Eyeball, X-Force
Jeremy Henderson
One is published by Marvel, the other is published by an indy company.
That's all you need to know.
Read my insane ramblings!
http://www.storymania.com/cgibin/sm2/smshowauthorbox.cgi?page=1&author=HendersonJL
Alan Travis
> Alan Travis at alnt...@earthlink.net wrote:
>
> I'm surprised I didn't hear from you last week, when the Marvels got the
> best reviews out of the bunch I did.
Well, I must have missed the post. What Marvel books did you like?
> > Two comics that seem to be suffering from the same problem in your opinion.
>
> Not really, no. I don't suspect Girl Genius of waiting around until an
> anniversary issue number to actually get the plot going, for one thing, and
> for another, there's a distinction between simply being slow and feeling
> padded, as Avengers does.
Well, since Avengers does move several plots forward, it must just be slow.
> Additionally, Girl Genius doesn't have the problem
> of everyone just standing around talking; there's a good amount of action to
> balance it, which I think is a good idea for an adventure book.
And if Avengers was full of action, you'd say that it'd be nice to get some
characterization once in awhile.
Alan
John Savard
<joh...@comicsworthreading.com> wrote, in part:
>Not really, no. I don't suspect Girl Genius of waiting around until an
>anniversary issue number to actually get the plot going, for one thing, and
>for another, there's a distinction between simply being slow and feeling
>padded, as Avengers does. Additionally, Girl Genius doesn't have the problem
>of everyone just standing around talking; there's a good amount of action to
>balance it, which I think is a good idea for an adventure book.
If anything, the issues I've read seemed to move too fast - there were
very abrupt transitions from one location to another that made the
plot hard to follow. However, the latest issue has sort of telegraphed
a number of forthcoming plot developments.
The problem with this book that makes it seem "slow" is that while
events are happening thick and fast, the book is still in an
exposition phase. The main character doesn't yet fully realize her
situation, and has not yet marshalled her available resources to deal
with it.
Of course, that may never happen - this may not be "that kind" of
comic book. She may always be pulled along by events, instead of
standing her ground and acting independently, for all I know. It
looks, however, like this exposition is leading up to a transition to
her becoming somewhat more proactive in future - but when?
John Savard
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html
http://plaza.powersurfr.com/jsavard/other/optint.htm
Ralf Haring
<joh...@comicsworthreading.com> wrote:
>AVENGERS #45
>Writer: Kurt Busiek
>Artists: Manuel Garcia & Bob Layton
>
>Yet again, Kang is pontificating about how he's the ultimate ruler. If this
>war is so all-fired epic and important, how come whenever I check in the
>Avengers aren't actually doing anything?
Well, we had one issue of the Avengers doing stuff, one issue of Kang
pontificating, two issues of them doing stuff, and now there's another
down time issue. Seems alright to me. Basically the calm before the
storm.
>Someone told me that this
>never-ending Kang war isn't over until #50; if true, that illustrates the
>dangers of plotting by issue number, as we still have four more issues of
>padding to go.
The Kang stuff started with issue #41, and I remember reading that it
was supposed to run 10+ issues, so I don't think they're plotting by
issue number.
>This one's worse than many, as the Avengers mostly talk a lot
>to remind the reader of everyone's reason for angst. This one's an
>alcoholic, that one's a failed husband, the other's an immortal. Useful for
>reference, perhaps, but not very entertaining.
The Thor, Vision/Warbird/Triathlon/Jack of Hearts, and Kang situations
seem to be set up for future stories. The Yellowjacket and Quicksilver
bits are establishing just what their current status quo is. (for Hank
this needs addressing due to the recent storyline featuring him, for
Pietro not so much) Finally, the Cap/Wasp/Master bit sets up the story
for the next issue. Of these I think only the Quicksilver bit could
have been omitted with no effect.
>Additionally, Girl Genius doesn't have the problem of everyone just
>standing around talking; there's a good amount of action to balance it,
>which I think is a good idea for an adventure book.
There were just two issues of action. I'm surprised you'd want more,
unless that's all you expect from superhero books. Why not look at
this issue as part of the larger Kang arc instead of as a standalone
where "nothing happens?"
>GREEN ARROW #7
>Writer: Kevin Smith
>Penciller: Phil Hester
>Inker: Ande Parks
>
>Mr. Smith is still writing all his characters with the same smart aleck
>voice, even the Spectre, voice of God himself, but the art is beginning to
>grow on me. I still can't figure out the target audience for this book;
The readers that made DAREDEVIL a top 10 book.
-Ralf Haring
"The mind must be the harder, the heart the keener,
the spirit the greater, as our strength grows less."
-Byrhtwold, The Battle of Maldon
Snowlock
that, that would be like me telling Paul Obrien is jumping on the bandwagon
over New X Men! Why, that kind of accusation would make you a hypocrite,
and never ever would you resort to such a thing.
Jeremy Henderson wrote in message ...
Carl Henderson
news:89bum9...@enzym.rnd.uni-c.dk:
> Someone told me that
> this never-ending Kang war isn't over until #50; [...]
I believe that Buisek has mentioned that the "Kang Dynasty" storyline is
scheduled to run past #50. Thus I don't think that this issue was designed
to pad things out so as to have the storyline conclude at an arbitrary
issue number.
--
Carl Henderson carl.he...@airmail.net
Top 300 Report Archive http://j_carl_henderson.tripod.com/
RAC/RACM FAQ http://www.enteract.com/~katew/faqs/miscfaq.htm
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Johanna Draper Carlson
>
>> AVENGERS #45
> Well, we had one issue of the Avengers doing stuff, one issue of Kang
> pontificating, two issues of them doing stuff, and now there's another
> down time issue. Seems alright to me.
I guess it's just my bad luck that the only ones I randomly pick up are the
slow issues.
> The Kang stuff started with issue #41, and I remember reading that it
> was supposed to run 10+ issues, so I don't think they're plotting by
> issue number.
Then what's their excuse for dragging it out this long? :)
Seriously, thanks to you and Carl for correcting me.
> Why not look at this issue as part of the larger Kang arc instead of as a
> standalone where "nothing happens?"
Because they're not selling it as an entire book. I'm reviewing the unit
they choose to sell. If the story doesn't work until you have larger chunks,
then they should have sold it as an original graphic novel.
>> GREEN ARROW #7
>> I still can't figure out the target audience for this book;
>
> The readers that made DAREDEVIL a top 10 book.
Are you referring to people who will buy anything Kevin Smith does no matter
what, or do you see more similarities between the two than that?
Johanna Draper Carlson joh...@comicsworthreading.com
Reviews of Comics Worth Reading -- http://www.comicsworthreading.com
Johanna Draper Carlson
> I must have missed the post.
Aren't you lucky that I archive all my reviews at my site? You can go read
it at your convenience.
>> for another, there's a distinction between simply being slow and feeling
>> padded, as Avengers does.
>
> Well, since Avengers does move several plots forward, it must just be slow.
You're entitled to your opinion, of course. I disagree, also of course.
> And if Avengers was full of action, you'd say that it'd be nice to get some
> characterization once in awhile.
No, I don't think I would.
Ralf Haring
<joh...@comicsworthreading.com> wrote:
>Ralf Haring at ra...@duke.edu wrote:
>>
>>> AVENGERS #45
>> standalone where "nothing happens?"
>
>Because they're not selling it as an entire book. I'm reviewing the unit
>they choose to sell. If the story doesn't work until you have larger chunks,
>then they should have sold it as an original graphic novel.
Well, the way Marvel's currently going, you can expect a trade about a
week after the last issue comes out.
>>> GREEN ARROW #7
>>> I still can't figure out the target audience for this book;
>>
>> The readers that made DAREDEVIL a top 10 book.
>
>Are you referring to people who will buy anything Kevin Smith does no matter
>what, or do you see more similarities between the two than that?
Nope, I think that's the driving force behind a large part of the
audience. It'll be interesting to see what happens to GREEN ARROW once
the entire team leaves it for BRAVE & THE BOLD.
Richard B. Becker
>
> On Mon, 03 Sep 2001 07:22:28 -0400, Johanna Draper Carlson
> <joh...@comicsworthreading.com> wrote:
> >Ralf Haring at ra...@duke.edu wrote:
> >>
> >>> AVENGERS #45
> >> Why not look at this issue as part of the larger Kang arc instead of as a
> >> standalone where "nothing happens?"
> >
> >Because they're not selling it as an entire book. I'm reviewing the unit
> >they choose to sell. If the story doesn't work until you have larger chunks,
> >then they should have sold it as an original graphic novel.
>
> Well, the way Marvel's currently going, you can expect a trade about a
> week after the last issue comes out.
That's not true at all! You can expect the trade a week BEFORE the
final issue.
Seriously, though, the "Kang pontificating" issue was my first issue
of Avengers as a new reader, and it seemed like it was setting up a
large, potentially exciting story. Having read the three issues and
annual since then, I haven't been disappointed yet. This last issue
was slow because the team was licking their wounds (Captain America's
bandages being the most obvious sign of that) from the battles of the
two previous issues.
I do recommend that you check out the two issues in between the ones
you reviewed, Johanna. If you're looking for the exciting battles,
that's where you'll find them. Not the greatest comic book story
ever told, but I think it's pretty good so far.
>
> >>> GREEN ARROW #7
> >>> I still can't figure out the target audience for this book;
> >>
> >> The readers that made DAREDEVIL a top 10 book.
> >
> >Are you referring to people who will buy anything Kevin Smith does no matter
> >what, or do you see more similarities between the two than that?
>
> Nope, I think that's the driving force behind a large part of the
> audience. It'll be interesting to see what happens to GREEN ARROW once
> the entire team leaves it for BRAVE & THE BOLD.
>
Given how many people have already stated on these newsgroups that
they intend to drop it once Smith leaves, I'm predicting GA gets
canceled by issue 25. Personally, I'm likely to give it a try when
the new creative team joins, to see what they can do with the book.
But I also tend to do that a lot (jump on books when new creators
take over, just to see if the new direction appeals to me).
--Richard
Rob W
>Ralf Haring at ra...@duke.edu wrote:
>>
>>> AVENGERS #45
>> Well, we had one issue of the Avengers doing stuff, one issue of Kang
>> pontificating, two issues of them doing stuff, and now there's another
>> down time issue. Seems alright to me.
>
>I guess it's just my bad luck that the only ones I randomly pick up are the
>slow issues.
>
>> The Kang stuff started with issue #41, and I remember reading that it
>> was supposed to run 10+ issues, so I don't think they're plotting by
>> issue number.
>
>Then what's their excuse for dragging it out this long? :)
>
>Seriously, thanks to you and Carl for correcting me.
>
>> Why not look at this issue as part of the larger Kang arc instead of as a
>> standalone where "nothing happens?"
>
>Because they're not selling it as an entire book. I'm reviewing the unit
>they choose to sell. If the story doesn't work until you have larger chunks,
>then they should have sold it as an original graphic novel.
Not having the issue, I have to ask, does the cover say its an entire
story in one book?
I'm asking because they are actually selling it as a serial not as a
single unit story. At least thats always kinda been my interpretation
of Marvel comics anyway. But I guess you bring up a good
point...should monthly comics be written as single stories or serial
stories?
I remember reading similiar complaints about Inhumans and Avengers
Forever, when its clear in those cases that there were 12 chapters.
I think it's a double-edged sword in that I feel 22 pages are too
small for most single stories (at least ones I want to read) and the
serial nature combined with ONLY 22 pages leaves me wanting more when
I'm done reading.
Though I've never scripted or plotted a comic book, I assume most of
the time in producing a comic is in drawing it. Based on that
assumption, I would like to see larger monthly books produced, maybe
more in a chapter style, where the chapters are produced by different
artists. This style would fit team books nicely, that are jumping
from one sub-plot to the next over a course of a story. Artist A
could draw sub-plot A, Artist B - sub-plot B, etc. Each chapter could
be 15-25 pages long depending on the artists, etc. And the story
could have have the unifying voice of the writer to hold it together.
I don't know, it's something to play with.
-----------------------------------------------------
Rob W
e-mail is at usa.net
username is rob47
Johanna Draper Carlson
> I'm asking because they are actually selling it as a serial not as a
> single unit story. At least thats always kinda been my interpretation
> of Marvel comics anyway. But I guess you bring up a good
> point...should monthly comics be written as single stories or serial
> stories?
It's a long-standing question, and I doubt we're going to come to a definite
answer here. :)
I should clarify, though -- I don't expect single-issue, stand-alone stories
in every comic book sold. I do, however, expect it to be minimally
satisfying in order to be worth the money.
I also think I have different expectations of Marvel than other people,
because I didn't grow up reading them.
> I remember reading similiar complaints about Inhumans and Avengers
> Forever, when its clear in those cases that there were 12 chapters.
Those were both announced miniseries, though, right?
The balance between commercial needs (monthly titles) and artistic ones
(satisfying story or chapter) is tough to manage, as you say. I'm not sure
there is one single solution for every title.
> This style would fit team books nicely, that are jumping
> from one sub-plot to the next over a course of a story. ... And the story
> could have have the unifying voice of the writer to hold it together.
I just read an indy comic, Hopeless Savages, that does something similar to
this. Each issue has a flashback sequence illustrated by a different artist
than the main story. It works quite well, I think.
Johanna Draper Carlson joh...@comicsworthreading.com
Reviews of Comics Worth Reading -- http://www.comicsworthreading.com
Newly updated: Hopeless Savages, Slow News Day, Private Beach,
Scary Godmother, Waiting Place, Avengers, Green Arrow, X-Force
Tyler Durden
>> Forever, when its clear in those cases that there were 12 chapters.
>
>Those were both announced miniseries, though, right?
And Avengers is announced as an ongoing series. This means that the stories
found in any given issue are, by definition, going to be a part of one, larger
ongoing story about a group of characters. Whether a particular adventure
lasts one issue, three, twelve, or fifty, even in a one issue adventure, you
should expect to find threads continuing from previous issues, and leading into
future issues. The fact that its #45 of an ongoing series means that it will
continue the storylines from issue #44, and lead into the storylines in #46.
One-shots and mini-series of varying lengths have stories about characters that
have a set, pre-destined length. Ongoing series are going to have ongoing
stories.
The last few issues would have been much more satisfying if you were looking
for action adventures with a beginning, middle, and end in the issue, but, if
you were a new reader, you probably would have been confused about who all of
the very large cast of characters were. #45 did a great job of showing us who
all the characters are and what the situation is, but didn't have an action
adventure. It was a transitional story set between the Avengers' last
adventure, and before the beginning of their next one, both of which involve
the threatening presence of Kang hovering over the Earth in a sword-shaped base
called Damocles, while those beneath wait for that sword to fall and strike.
Tyler Durden
"Use Soap"
Johanna Draper Carlson
> Avengers is announced as an ongoing series. This means that the stories
> found in any given issue are, by definition, going to be a part of one, larger
> ongoing story about a group of characters.
I don't think there is a clear industry definition, and I think numerous
discussions have shown that any given person's connotations to the term
"ongoing" may differ.
Some people, for example, consider only a certain creator's time on a book
to define the boundaries of the larger story.
> Whether a particular adventure
> lasts one issue, three, twelve, or fifty, even in a one issue adventure, you
> should expect to find threads continuing from previous issues, and leading
> into future issues.
I've already addressed this point in this thread; in short, I agree with
you.
> if you were a new reader, you probably would have been confused about who
> all of the very large cast of characters were.
Oh, no, I'm *not* getting into that discussion again. :)
> It was a transitional story set between the Avengers' last
> adventure, and before the beginning of their next one, both of which involve
> the threatening presence of Kang hovering over the Earth
If both involve Kang, how are you defining the last and next adventures as
differing? (Just curious -- this is the first time I've heard someone break
down the overall Kang story like this.)
Johanna Draper Carlson joh...@comicsworthreading.com
Reviews of Comics Worth Reading -- http://www.comicsworthreading.com
Newly updated: September Previews, Hopeless Savages, Slow News Day,
Private Beach, Scary Godmother, Review Capsules
Tyler Durden
>as
>differing? (Just curious -- this is the first time I've heard someone break
>down the overall Kang story like this.)
In the first issue of the story arc, Kang arrived at Earth with his Damocles
base, and announced that he was going to take over by blowing up the United
Nations. But then, he didn't immediately begin his attack. He sent a message
all around the globe that anyone who rose up and aided him in his conquest
would be given special treatment in his new regime. Several different groups
around the globe, including Attuma and his Atlantean troops, and a group of
Deviants, took the opportunity and attacked. The Avengers team split up to go
all over the globe and respond to these threats. This was the last adventure.
Now, in #45, those individual rebellions have been put down, and the Avengers
are now regrouping to begin to plan how they're going to deal with the real
threat, which is Kang hovering above them in his base. Presumably, the next
adventure, which will probably run from #46-50, will deal with Kang launching
his main offensive and the Avengers' response.
That's how the story reads to me, at least. If Kurt's reading this thread, he
can probably say yay or nay as to whether this was his intended structure.
Tyler Durden
"Use Soap"
John Jakala
news:B7B8E034.4D5AC%joh...@comicsworthreading.com:
> Ralf Haring at ra...@duke.edu wrote:
>
>> Why not look at this issue as part of the larger Kang arc instead of
>> as a standalone where "nothing happens?"
>
> Because they're not selling it as an entire book. I'm reviewing the
> unit they choose to sell. If the story doesn't work until you have
> larger chunks, then they should have sold it as an original graphic
> novel.
>
From your review of GIRL GENIUS, it sounded as though you were ok with the
fact that the story wasn't a self-contained unit ("The pacing is somewhat
slow; we're four issues in, and the conflict is still being set up.") Why
can't you make similar allowances for when you review AVENGERS? Most
comics I've read (even indies) were of a serial nature. Isn't this
something that has to be taken into account when doing a review?
- John Jakala
Alan Travis
> > This style would fit team books nicely, that are jumping
> > from one sub-plot to the next over a course of a story. ... And the story
> > could have have the unifying voice of the writer to hold it together.
>
> I just read an indy comic, Hopeless Savages, that does something similar to
> this. Each issue has a flashback sequence illustrated by a different artist
> than the main story. It works quite well, I think.
Most of the time 'jam' issues such as these are met with derision by comic
fans. I'm against the idea myself since I don't think there would be enough of
the artists I like to warrant buying the book. If Avengers was 64 pages, cost
$4 bucks but only had 15 pages by an artist I liked and the rest were artists I
was indifferent towards or disliked, I wouldn't feel like buying it.
Alan
Johanna Draper Carlson
> From your review of GIRL GENIUS ...
> Why can't you make similar allowances for when you review AVENGERS?
I've already answered this question in this thread; in short, the issue of
GG still provided enough to be somewhat satisfying on its own. Avengers
didn't. Not every comic has to be a stand-alone story, but every comic
should give the reader something for the money and/or bring them back next
issue. In my opinion, Avengers failed at that.
(As Owen pointed out, GG is also in a very different situation, since it's
building its own world all by itself; Avengers is working off of someone
else's 40-year-old world.)
> Most comics I've read (even indies) were of a serial nature. Isn't this
> something that has to be taken into account when doing a review?
To a degree. If the Avengers issue was labelled Part 4 of 17, that would put
it in a different context. Reviewing an issue of an announced miniseries is
also a bit different.
If you take your point to the extreme, though, that would mean that no one
could ever review individual comic issues. While pros might like that, I
don't think it gains the reader much. :)
Johanna Draper Carlson joh...@comicsworthreading.com
Reviews of Comics Worth Reading -- http://www.comicsworthreading.com
Johanna Draper Carlson
> Most of the time 'jam' issues such as these are met with derision by comic
> fans.
I can't speak for all fans, of course, but when I've seen issues like this,
I've enjoyed them. If someone takes the time to format the story
appropriately for the artist changes and select good artists (instead of
just whomever's available), it can turn out really well.
(For an extreme example, the Legion once did an issue with 22 stories, one
per page. It was a neat use of the format in a creative way, I thought.)
I've never heard anyone speak out against the idea just on principle before.
Most of the people I've talked to are more interested in good work on a
timely basis.
> If Avengers was 64 pages, cost $4 bucks but only had 15 pages by an artist I
> liked and the rest were artists I was indifferent towards or disliked, I
> wouldn't feel like buying it.
People who buy Avengers for the story, not the art, might feel differently,
though. Ultimately, we won't know what people would do until someone does
the experiment. We could look at the recent one-shot for comparison, but I'm
not sure that's a fair trial, since lots of people seemed to mistakenly
think that was a reprint.
Johanna Draper Carlson joh...@comicsworthreading.com
Reviews of Comics Worth Reading -- http://www.comicsworthreading.com
Newly updated: September Previews, Hopeless Savages, Slow News Day,
Private Beach, Scary Godmother, Review Capsules
Paul O'Brien
Draper Carlson <joh...@comicsworthreading.com> writes
>
>I've never heard anyone speak out against the idea just on principle before.
>Most of the people I've talked to are more interested in good work on a
>timely basis.
Generally speaking I find jam issues don't make for good work. The
shifts in art style are very rarely justified by the content of the
story. Once in a blue moon you'll find a jam issue that doesn't just
end up being full of arbitrary style changes every five pages, but
I certainly never approach the things with any enthusiasm. No doubt
the creators have enormous fun doing them, but I don't want to see
their holiday photos either.
Paul O'Brien
THE X-AXIS REVIEWS - http://www.esoterica.demon.co.uk
ARTICLE 10 - http://www.ninthart.com
Brevity is the sister of talent.
Johanna Draper Carlson
> Generally speaking I find jam issues don't make for good work. The
> shifts in art style are very rarely justified by the content of the story.
I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing here, then -- the idea as
proposed is that the writer *plans* for different art styles and writes the
story to accommodate them in a reasonable way (as with flashbacks or scene
changes). We're not talking here about "this has got to get out! give some
pages to someone else!" type situations.
CleV
<pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <B7BA30CD.4D780%joh...@comicsworthreading.com>, Johanna
>Draper Carlson <joh...@comicsworthreading.com> writes
>>I've never heard anyone speak out against the idea just on principle before.
>>Most of the people I've talked to are more interested in good work on a
>>timely basis.
>Generally speaking I find jam issues don't make for good work. The
>shifts in art style are very rarely justified by the content of the
>story. Once in a blue moon you'll find a jam issue that doesn't just
>end up being full of arbitrary style changes every five pages, but
>I certainly never approach the things with any enthusiasm. No doubt
>the creators have enormous fun doing them, but I don't want to see
>their holiday photos either.
World's Funnest, anyone?
Paul O'Brien
writes
>
>World's Funnest, anyone?
Oh yeah, that one was quite good.
Alan Travis
> I can't speak for all fans, of course, but when I've seen issues like this,
> I've enjoyed them. If someone takes the time to format the story
> appropriately for the artist changes and select good artists (instead of
> just whomever's available), it can turn out really well.
I think it's possible but unlikely if it were done more often than just a special
occasion, like World's Funnest.
> (For an extreme example, the Legion once did an issue with 22 stories, one
> per page. It was a neat use of the format in a creative way, I thought.)
So did Superman Adventures. I'm not against experimentation. It was my
understanding that this format was being suggested as an alternative to what we
have now.
> I've never heard anyone speak out against the idea just on principle before.
> Most of the people I've talked to are more interested in good work on a
> timely basis.
The rub lies in whether this would lead to more good work on a timely basis or
getting
less of the work you like and paying for more work you don't care much about just
to get a single story.
> > If Avengers was 64 pages, cost $4 bucks but only had 15 pages by an artist I
> > liked and the rest were artists I was indifferent towards or disliked, I
> > wouldn't feel like buying it.
>
> People who buy Avengers for the story, not the art, might feel differently,
> though
They might and they might not. I don't think there are very many people that buy
any comic solely for the writing and not the art. It's the synthesis of both that
makes a favorite book for most people. And if one half of the equation is
consistently disappointing, your interest in the book as a whole wanes.
> Ultimately, we won't know what people would do until someone does
> the experiment. We could look at the recent one-shot for comparison, but I'm
> not sure that's a fair trial, since lots of people seemed to mistakenly
> think that was a reprint.
Also, I wasn't speaking out against one-shots. I was speaking out against the
idea of 'jam' issues being the norm, not the exception.
Alan
Alan Travis
> Paul O'Brien at pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk wrote:
>
> > Generally speaking I find jam issues don't make for good work. The
> > shifts in art style are very rarely justified by the content of the story.
>
> I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing here, then -- the idea as
> proposed is that the writer *plans* for different art styles and writes the
> story to accommodate them in a reasonable way (as with flashbacks or scene
> changes). We're not talking here about "this has got to get out! give some
> pages to someone else!" type situations.
Well, I think Paul's concerns are valid when you consider that they would be
doing this month in and month out. Deadlines tend to make people rush.
Alan