Question on comics perception
Pradera
question about perception of comic books in USA in general.
The thing is, I've always perceived US as 'capital of comic books' and all,
and this comes as a sort of shocking paradox to me, but do I feel it right
that comics are treated in US with much less regard than in Europe (not to
mention Japan)? In places like France, Belgium or Poland, comic books have
their own place as genre of art, between literature, paintings and film.
<massive generalization follows> Not many people here share the idea that
they're 'for kids' or 'for youngsters'. New series are often reviewed in
'regular' literary magazines and newspapers. Sure, there are comics for
kids only, but that's rather a minority of stuff that gets printed.
And I'm not even mentioning Japan with their mangas, 'cuz they're weird' ;)
I thought it's the same, or even better, situation in US. But reading this
ng I learned that it is not so. That comic books are still regarded by
general public as kiddy stuff, nothing really serious.
Am I wrong in my impression? What's it really like?
--
Pradera
---
"Good morning! How is everyone? Its now 6am. Time for sleepy heads to wake
up! Heres the list of your dead friends in the order they died..."
-Battle Royale
Paul O'Brien
<pra...@pradera.prv.pl> writes
>The thing is, I've always perceived US as 'capital of comic books' and
>all, and this comes as a sort of shocking paradox to me, but do I feel
>it right that comics are treated in US with much less regard than in
>Europe (not to mention Japan)?
They're the capital of superhero comics, and probably of English
language comics.
But the best country in the world for comics, in commercial terms, has
got to be Japan. They actually READ the damn things there.
--
Paul O'Brien
THE X-AXIS - http://www.thexaxis.com
ARTICLE 10 - http://www.ninthart.com
NTL - even worse than I'd heard.
Brian Henderson
>I've been lurking and delurking here for a little while, and I have this
>question about perception of comic books in USA in general.
>The thing is, I've always perceived US as 'capital of comic books' and all,
>and this comes as a sort of shocking paradox to me, but do I feel it right
>that comics are treated in US with much less regard than in Europe (not to
>mention Japan)? In places like France, Belgium or Poland, comic books have
>their own place as genre of art, between literature, paintings and film.
><massive generalization follows> Not many people here share the idea that
>they're 'for kids' or 'for youngsters'. New series are often reviewed in
>'regular' literary magazines and newspapers. Sure, there are comics for
>kids only, but that's rather a minority of stuff that gets printed.
>And I'm not even mentioning Japan with their mangas, 'cuz they're weird' ;)
>I thought it's the same, or even better, situation in US. But reading this
>ng I learned that it is not so. That comic books are still regarded by
>general public as kiddy stuff, nothing really serious.
>Am I wrong in my impression? What's it really like?
Comics in the US are treated, at least by the non-comic buying adult
public, as entirely a kids medium. Compare this to Japan, for
instance, where comics are very widespread and read by virtually the
whole population, and are seen as a viable and accepted entertainment
form. People carry manga volumes and compilations EVERYWHERE and they
sell MILLIONS of copies weekly.
It's the kind of market that Marvel and DC would kill for, and that
most adult comic fans would love to see. The problem is, if you go
looking through Shonen Jump or just about any other weekly manga
compilation, very little of it would fly in the US. There's a lot of
violence, plenty of sex, plenty of profanity, even in things intended
for kids.
And you know what? It hasn't corrupted the youth of Japan. They have
far less crime, far fewer murders, far fewer rapes than the US, yet
almost everyone reads comics.
Hmmm...
Jeremy Henderson
<cep...@directvinternet.com> wrote:
>
>And you know what? It hasn't corrupted the youth of Japan. They have
>far less crime, far fewer murders, far fewer rapes than the US, yet
>almost everyone reads comics.
Dirty commie. :-)
Chuck, Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix 01
"Brian Henderson" <cep...@directvinternet.com> wrote in message
news:7rdosuk5plpfc7uql...@4ax.com...
But seriously, it is a shame that somehow this country has insisted that
comics are a medium for juvenilles and middle aged white guys with no
girlfriends. Maybe the recent film successes and the support of
semi-mainstream entertainers like Kevin Smith can help change that attitude.
Maybe a bag of money will fall out of the sky on my way to work tomorrow.
--
Chuck
"Anything that is too stupid to be spoken is sung. " - Voltaire
Prestorjon
>and this comes as a sort of shocking paradox to me, but do I feel it right
>that comics are treated in US with much less regard than in Europe (not to
>mention Japan)?
Pretty much. I can't speak for the state of the indsutry in other countries so
I can't do much by way of comparison (you're posting from Poland, right?). But
the general perception here in the US by comics fans and apparently by a lot of
proffesionals is that the indsutry is in trouble. Certainly sales are down
from what they had been a decade or more ago. I don't know if I can speak for
a the general public but it seems that most of them regard comics as being
something for kids or obsessive loser adults. Certainly comics like Maus that
take on serious subjects and are meant for adults aren't what most Americans
seem to think of when they think of comics. From what you say it looks like
comics get more exposure in the mainstream media in Europe than in the US.
About the only non-genre or industry specific publication that I've seen talk
about comics is Entertainment Weekly. They'll cover some prestige things like
Authority or a new trade of some kind. On the other hand we've had a recent
rash of hit adaptations of comics related material such as Spiderman, From
Hell, Road to Perdition, Smallville, Xmen, and Birds of Prey.
-----------------
He had been our Destroyer, the doer of things
We dreamed of doing but could not bring ourselves to do,
The fears of years, like a biting whip,
Had cut deep bloody grooves
Across our backs.
-Etheridge Knight
Curt
I saw the smiley face, of course, but thought I'd also post the
following info on Japan's political parties:
They include the Democratic Party of Japan, Japanese Communist
Party, Komei, Liberal Democratic Party, and the Liberal Party.
Party on!
--
Curt
http://www.curtjames.com/
Brian Henderson
Yeah, wouldn't want to confuse anyone with FACTS or anything. Might
confuse the whiners who think comics are for kids and talking about
the Thing's lizard is going to ruin the future.
Brian Henderson
Unimatrix 01" <so...@ubiteme.com> wrote:
>But seriously, it is a shame that somehow this country has insisted that
>comics are a medium for juvenilles and middle aged white guys with no
>girlfriends. Maybe the recent film successes and the support of
>semi-mainstream entertainers like Kevin Smith can help change that attitude.
It would be nice if these people who think comics are for kids would
actually stop the see-no-evil routine and actually JOIN REALITY
instead of huddling behind their biases and nostalgia.
Won't happen, I know, but it's worth wishing for.
Ronald J. Rickard Jr.
>question about perception of comic books in USA in general.
>The thing is, I've always perceived US as 'capital of comic books' and all,
>and this comes as a sort of shocking paradox to me, but do I feel it right
>that comics are treated in US with much less regard than in Europe (not to
>mention Japan)? In places like France, Belgium or Poland, comic books have
>their own place as genre of art, between literature, paintings and film.
><massive generalization follows> Not many people here share the idea that
>they're 'for kids' or 'for youngsters'. New series are often reviewed in
>'regular' literary magazines and newspapers. Sure, there are comics for
>kids only, but that's rather a minority of stuff that gets printed.
>And I'm not even mentioning Japan with their mangas, 'cuz they're weird' ;)
>I thought it's the same, or even better, situation in US. But reading this
>ng I learned that it is not so. That comic books are still regarded by
>general public as kiddy stuff, nothing really serious.
>Am I wrong in my impression? What's it really like?
>
There isn't much of a public impression of comics in the US, because very,
very few people read comics. The best selling comics in the US number just
over 100,000 copies. Think about that! That is so minute compared to the
number of people in the US, that comics are pretty irrelevant.
I'm guessing the general impression of comics, if they are thought about
at all, is they are for the social misfits. Article after article about
comics that have been printed in the US in the past 20 years have mentioned
how comics are not for kids, anyone who walks into a soft porn ... er, comic
shop can tell you comics are not for kids. I'm guessing the America public
knows they are not for kids by now (don't have other convince you otherwise)
what with the Batman movies, Blade movies, etc. I've also seen comic
articles that focus on the "collectibility" of comics. And "collecting"
things has become the US' favorite pasttime, but alas, comics are still
pretty irrelevant.
But I digress.
RJRJR
Ronald J. Rickard Jr.
>
>>I've been lurking and delurking here for a little while, and I have this
>>question about perception of comic books in USA in general.
>>The thing is, I've always perceived US as 'capital of comic books' and all,
>>and this comes as a sort of shocking paradox to me, but do I feel it right
>>that comics are treated in US with much less regard than in Europe (not to
>>mention Japan)? In places like France, Belgium or Poland, comic books have
>>their own place as genre of art, between literature, paintings and film.
>><massive generalization follows> Not many people here share the idea that
>>they're 'for kids' or 'for youngsters'. New series are often reviewed in
>>'regular' literary magazines and newspapers. Sure, there are comics for
>>kids only, but that's rather a minority of stuff that gets printed.
>>And I'm not even mentioning Japan with their mangas, 'cuz they're weird' ;)
>>I thought it's the same, or even better, situation in US. But reading this
>>ng I learned that it is not so. That comic books are still regarded by
>>general public as kiddy stuff, nothing really serious.
>>Am I wrong in my impression? What's it really like?
>
>Comics in the US are treated, at least by the non-comic buying adult
>public, as entirely a kids medium.
Why do you believe this? I'm curious, because anytime the mass media has
printed a comic story in the past 20-25 years, they mention that comics
are not for kids. And the controversy surrounding the Batman movies and
marketing to kids, the Blade movies, and other such comic movies would
suggest to me that most people understand comics are not for kids anymore.
That is, when they actually think about them. I'd argue this perception
doesn't exist, and hasn't existed for quite some time.
Let's face it, most people have similar impression's about porn that they
do about comics in the US. A fringe group of people would be interested
in that material, but not "normal" people.
RJRJR
Ronald J. Rickard Jr.
<so...@ubiteme.com> wrote:
>
I'd argue this latter statement, "comics are for middle aged white guys with
no girlfriends" is more prevalent than comics are for kids.
>Maybe the recent film successes and the support of
>semi-mainstream entertainers like Kevin Smith can help change that attitude.
I'd also argue it is because of people like Kevin Smith that comics are
regarded as such. His movies also appeal to the "middle aged white guys
with no girlfriends" in most peoples minds." Sad, but most likely true.
RJRJR
jay
(Ronald J. Rickard Jr.) wrote:
> There isn't much of a public impression of comics
> in the US, because very, very few people read
> comics. The best selling comics in the US number
> just over 100,000 copies. Think about that! That
> is so minute compared to the number of people in
> the US, that comics are pretty irrelevant.
Comics face the same problem in the U.S. as any
other literary medium--no one here reads anymore.
That, btw, is the eventual end of the United States
in the making.
Paul O'Brien
<curt_...@yahoo.com> writes
>
>I saw the smiley face, of course, but thought I'd also post the
>following info on Japan's political parties:
>
>They include the Democratic Party of Japan, Japanese Communist Party,
>Komei, Liberal Democratic Party, and the Liberal Party.
And they're virtually a one party state because the government is
invariably re-elected, as I recall. Not the healthiest democracy in the
world.
Paul O'Brien
Rickard Jr. <rj...@localhost.devel.redhat.com> writes
>
>Why do you believe this? I'm curious, because anytime the mass media
>has printed a comic story in the past 20-25 years, they mention that
>comics are not for kids.
And the reason they keep doing the "comics aren't for kids" angle is
because nobody believes it. That's why it's a story.
And still, nobody believes it. Which is why they keep doing it.
Johanna Draper Carlson
> Comics in the US are treated, at least by the non-comic buying adult
> public, as entirely a kids medium.
Not true. There were a number of non-offensive "some comics aren't for
kids" articles around several recent media properties like Ghost World,
From Hell, and Road to Perdition. (I saw that last one on the Today
show, and you can't get much more mainstream than that). Even the
recently discussed Sixty Minutes II piece on the Spider-Man movie talked
about Jimmy Corrigan and Maus with brief coverage on Chris Ware and Art
Spiegelman, respectively.
Additionally, mass market magazine Entertainment Weekly has fairly
regular (every month or two) comic reviews, in which they treat comics
like any other medium.
Do most adults think comics are for kids? Probably. But the message is
out there in such a way that you can no longer say that that's the only
coverage of the medium.
Not to mention that books like Jimmy Corrigan have sold in the multiple
tens of thousands in bookstores, and Doubleday just launched a new
graphic novel line.
> The problem is, if you go looking through Shonen Jump or just about
> any other weekly manga compilation, very little of it would fly in
> the US. There's a lot of violence, plenty of sex, plenty of
> profanity, even in things intended for kids.
Weird, then, that they're launching Shonen Jump over here shortly.
--
Johanna Draper Carlson
Reviews of Comics Worth Reading -- http://www.comicsworthreading.com
Newly updated: November Previews and many reviews!
Tue Sorensen
> The best selling comics in the US number just
> over 100,000 copies. Think about that!
I live in Denmark, population 5 million. Our weekly Donald Duck & Co.
comic sells 2-300,000 copies.
- Tue
James Moar
<pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <de4psukhftv28ce5n...@4ax.com>, Curt
> <curt_...@yahoo.com> writes
> >
> >I saw the smiley face, of course, but thought I'd also post the
> >following info on Japan's political parties:
> >
> >They include the Democratic Party of Japan, Japanese Communist Party,
> >Komei, Liberal Democratic Party, and the Liberal Party.
>
> And they're virtually a one party state because the government is
> invariably re-elected, as I recall. Not the healthiest democracy in the
> world.
They're also a right-wing party - closer to the classical definition of
"liberal" than the current US one.
Party names can be misleading sometimes. The UK's ones were pretty
accurate up to about 20 years ago, but the parties have moved from
their roots lately.
As for the US ones, you can't really call the Republicans
anti-democratic, or the Democrats anti-republic (okay, there are
probably exceptions).
--
James Moar, following up the post of someone who very probably knows
all this.
Curt
<pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> after I scribbled:
[snip]
>> >Japan's political parties:
>> >
>> >They include the Democra
>> And they're virtually a one party state because the government is
>> invariably re-elected, as I recall. Not the healthiest democracy in the
>> world.
>
>They're also a right-wing party - closer to the classical definition of
>"liberal" than the current US one.
>
>Party names can be misleading sometimes. The UK's ones were pretty
>accurate up to about 20 years ago, but the parties have moved from
>their roots lately.
>
>As for the US ones, you can't really call the Republicans
>anti-democratic, or the Democrats anti-republic (okay, there are
>probably exceptions).
>James Moar, following up the post of someone who very probably knows
>all this.
Speaking as someone who very probably does *not* know all this,
how do term limits and the "health" of the US government compare
to the current systems elsewhere? I know this has nothing to do
with comic books, perhaps, though I am thinking of the Watchmen
(oops, Marvel ng, let me change that to the current Captain
America run), just wondering if any of you believe that the US
currently gets the best results on their "physical".
--
Curt
http://www.curtjames.com/
GI Trekker
currently gets the best results on their "physical".>>
Well, now that the Republicans have control of both the White House and
Congress, I'm more optimistic.
However, on the whole, I'd say that while the US gets good marks on overall
foundational ideals, present day results courtesy of partisan politics and the
influence of a staggering range of short-sighted and inherently selfish
special-interest groups are somewhat lacking as such.
Ronald J. Rickard Jr.
wrote:
>In message <Rr4z9.471546$o.60...@news1.west.cox.net>, Ronald J.
>Rickard Jr. <rj...@localhost.devel.redhat.com> writes
>>
>>Why do you believe this? I'm curious, because anytime the mass media
>>has printed a comic story in the past 20-25 years, they mention that
>>comics are not for kids.
>
>And the reason they keep doing the "comics aren't for kids" angle is
>because nobody believes it. That's why it's a story.
>
>And still, nobody believes it. Which is why they keep doing it.
I think people believe it, and they just don't care. The majority of people
still would not read comics if you gave comics to them for free. Ditto for
paperbacks, magazines, etc.
Trust me, alot of people, if not most people, understand comics are not
for kids. They just don't care.
RJRJR
Ronald J. Rickard Jr.
These partisan politics and special interest groups have existed as long as
this country has existed. There are some very infamous partisan political
stories about this country's forefathers. Political short-sightedness is
nothing new in the good old US of A. I'd argue our current generation of
politicians have become even more civilized, accommodating, and cooperative.
Some of our forefathers had pistol fights to settle arguments. 8^) And this
country was founded because of special interest groups. 8^)
Nothing is any different now than 200 years ago with regards to the
selfishness of politicians. In fact, it is exactly this partisan fighting
that keeps this country from going into the toilet. The more they fight,
the less things change, and the better off we are. I begin to worry
when everyone agrees. 8^)
RJRJR
Marc-Oliver Frisch
: Brian Henderson <cep...@directvinternet.com> wrote:
:
: > Comics in the US are treated, at least by the non-comic buying adult
: > public, as entirely a kids medium.
:
: Not true. There were a number of non-offensive "some comics aren't for
: kids" articles around several recent media properties like Ghost World,
: From Hell, and Road to Perdition.
But articles basically saying "Hey, some comics aren't for kids!" seem to
suggest that the vast majority of folks out there assume the opposite, or don't
they?
: Do most adults think comics are for kids? Probably. But the message is
: out there in such a way that you can no longer say that that's the only
: coverage of the medium.
If you're interested in the medium at all, which a lot of people aren't. If the
average non-comic-buying citizen sees a headline saying "Hey, some comics aren't
for kids!", they'll probably think "Oh, great, they made a comic that isn't for
kids now." for a moment, move on, and forget about it entirely about five
seconds later.
Beyond making the folks who already read comics feel better about themselves, I
don't think that sort of sporadic coverage will achieve anything significant in
the long term.
--Marc
Pradera
>
>> Compare this to Japan, for
>> instance, where comics are very widespread and read by virtually the
>> whole population, and are seen as a viable and accepted entertainment
>> form. People carry manga volumes and compilations EVERYWHERE and they
>> sell MILLIONS of copies weekly.
>
> That is not true, japanese adults see comics the same way american do
> an adult japanese reading comics is considered a maniac.
> In japanese a maniac stand for a person that has an strong and unusual
> interest in something.
>
Not really. An 'otaku' (what you translate as maniac, I presume) is a lot
more than just a fan of something - the original japanese word describes
actually a really sick person with some serious disorders. Someone who
has no life beyond what he's maniacal about. No sane Japanese will want
to say about himself 'I'm otaku' (something I heard a lot from non-
japanese anime fans... luckily, they were almost always wrong).
'Japanese adult reading comic' is just a japanese adult reading comic.
It's like watching tv shows or reading a book. There are soap opera
mangas, thriller mangas, all sorts, for everyone. Not to mention erotics,
of course.
Johanna Draper Carlson
> Johanna Draper Carlson wrote:
> : Brian Henderson <cep...@directvinternet.com> wrote:
> :
> : > Comics in the US are treated, at least by the non-comic buying adult
> : > public, as entirely a kids medium.
> :
> : Not true. There were a number of non-offensive "some comics aren't for
> : kids" articles around several recent media properties like Ghost World,
> : From Hell, and Road to Perdition.
>
> But articles basically saying "Hey, some comics aren't for kids!" seem to
> suggest that the vast majority of folks out there assume the opposite, or
> don't they?
I prefer to look at the positive side. Now millions of people (based on
viewership and readership of the outlets I'm familiar with) are aware
that there are comics out there for adults. You can't call comics
"entirely a kids' medium" (or even perceived as such) with those kinds
of numbers.
> If the average non-comic-buying citizen sees a headline saying "Hey,
> some comics aren't for kids!", they'll probably think "Oh, great,
> they made a comic that isn't for kids now." for a moment, move on,
> and forget about it entirely about five seconds later.
If you think that people have attention spans of gnats, then I'm not
sure why we're even talking about public attitudes, since they wouldn't
matter at all. :)
> Beyond making the folks who already read comics feel better about
> themselves, I don't think that sort of sporadic coverage will achieve
> anything significant in the long term.
Part of my point was that the coverage right now is consistent enough to
no longer be called sporadic. That's why I brought up the EW example.
Brian Henderson
I really don't believe it. Heck, I'm not a kid and I read comics. It
was more a reference to the people in this newsgroup who are crying
that 'draining the lizard' in FF is somehow going to ruin America's
youth. I'd agree with you that comics are not, and perhaps never have
been just for kids, except in the minds of people stuck nostalgically
in the past.
>Let's face it, most people have similar impression's about porn that they
>do about comics in the US. A fringe group of people would be interested
>in that material, but not "normal" people.
I'm proud to be part of the fringe then. ;)
Brian Henderson
>That is not true, japanese adults see comics the same way american do
>an adult japanese reading comics is considered a maniac.
>In japanese a maniac stand for a person that has an strong and unusual
>interest in something.
>But japnese kids and teenagers do read tons of comics the same way europeans
>do.
Funny, wasn't that way last time I was there. Japanese adults were
carrying manga just about everywhere and were openly reading them on
the subways, etc.
>The price range is very different, manga are printed on toilette paper
>(just kidding), no color and few details due to the massive pages ammounts.
>They really are disposable comics, you read them and trow them.
That's true, they are recycled after reading and are printed on very
poor stock. Mostly, the lack of details are a result of having to
produce 10-20 pages of art and story weekly, which I doubt any US
artist could do and not lose just as much detail/
>You are right about that, but then look at who founded this country(usa).
What does that matter? This isn't the same country that was founded
225 years ago either.
Brian Henderson
<joh...@comicsworth.spamblock.reading.com> wrote:
> Brian Henderson <cep...@directvinternet.com> wrote:
>> The problem is, if you go looking through Shonen Jump or just about
>> any other weekly manga compilation, very little of it would fly in
>> the US. There's a lot of violence, plenty of sex, plenty of
>> profanity, even in things intended for kids.
>
>Weird, then, that they're launching Shonen Jump over here shortly.
From what I've seen, it's a rebuilt Shonen Jump that has specific
stories that will appeal to an American audience (in other words, a
lot of things that are on Cartoon Network right now).
Brian Henderson
<joh...@comicsworth.spamblock.reading.com> wrote:
>I prefer to look at the positive side. Now millions of people (based on
>viewership and readership of the outlets I'm familiar with) are aware
>that there are comics out there for adults. You can't call comics
>"entirely a kids' medium" (or even perceived as such) with those kinds
>of numbers.
I agree with you, but if these adult comics don't get more readers,
it's ultimately not going to do anything for the medium. I do think
that the majority of people in the US don't care about comics in the
least, wouldn't read them if they were handed a lifetime subscription
free and simply wouldn't get upset no matter what Marvel might put
into their comics.
>If you think that people have attention spans of gnats, then I'm not
>sure why we're even talking about public attitudes, since they wouldn't
>matter at all. :)
People do have the attention spans of gnats. It's that pesky
television thingy that's responsible! ;)
>Part of my point was that the coverage right now is consistent enough to
>no longer be called sporadic. That's why I brought up the EW example.
But how much attention does it get by your average person? Does your
average Joe on the street read EW? Do they look at the comic reviews?
Or is this just a space filler for the few who might actually read it?
I'd e a lot more impressed if the New York Times had comic reviews on
the front page. ;)
Marc-Oliver Frisch
: I prefer to look at the positive side. Now millions of people (based on
: viewership and readership of the outlets I'm familiar with) are aware
: that there are comics out there for adults. You can't call comics
: "entirely a kids' medium" (or even perceived as such) with those kinds
: of numbers.
I would not count on that kind of "awareness" based on the fact that millions of
people may have seen a show in which it was mentioned that there are comics
which aren'r for kids. People watch TV a lot, and people watch a lot of stuff
which doesn't really interest them. Are we really "aware" of everything we see
on TV at one point or other, let alone to the extent that it might change our
pre-existing views about the subject matter? I doubt it, frankly.
The popular "awareness" I've encountered so far from people who aren't into
science fiction or comics already is that a) comics are for kids, b) they
contain silly stories or c) that they are or kids and contain silly stories.
(That's a European perspective, mind you, but from what I hear and see, America
doesn't seem to be much different in that regard.)
: If you think that people have attention spans of gnats, then I'm not
: sure why we're even talking about public attitudes, since they wouldn't
: matter at all. :)
I firmly believe that people do have the attention spans of gnats when it comes
to things which don't particularly interest them, and a lot of people not being
interested in comics seems like a major problem the industry has been having for
a while now.
--Marc
Johanna Draper Carlson
> if these adult comics don't get more readers,
> it's ultimately not going to do anything for the medium.
Bookstores continue to expand their selections and shelf space. I don't
think those 50,000 or so copies of Jimmy Corrigan sold to kids.
> I do think that the majority of people in the US don't care about
> comics in the least, wouldn't read them if they were handed a
> lifetime subscription free and simply wouldn't get upset no matter
> what Marvel might put into their comics.
I think most US people don't even read, let alone read comics. But as I
said before, it's about looking at all the positive gains that have been
made among adult readers in the last few years.
And yeah, most of these gains have little to do with Marvel -- it's
mostly manga and non-superhero books making the real strides.
> >Part of my point was that the coverage right now is consistent enough to
> >no longer be called sporadic. That's why I brought up the EW example.
>
> But how much attention does it get by your average person?
I dunno. As soon as I asked someone, they wouldn't be average. :)
> I'd e a lot more impressed if the New York Times had comic reviews on
> the front page. ;)
The NYT doesn't even have a comics page. :)
Johanna Draper Carlson
> Johanna Draper Carlson wrote:
>
> : I prefer to look at the positive side. Now millions of people (based on
> : viewership and readership of the outlets I'm familiar with) are aware
> : that there are comics out there for adults. You can't call comics
> : "entirely a kids' medium" (or even perceived as such) with those kinds
> : of numbers.
>
> I would not count on that kind of "awareness" based on the fact that
> millions of people may have seen a show in which it was mentioned
> that there are comics which aren'r for kids.
The problem is that not we're just guessing. I provided evidence that
the story was out there.
If someone is convinced that they already know what people really
believe, then evidence isn't going to matter, because there's going to
be some way they can handwave or explain away, at least to their
satisfaction, anything I show them.