That series in the '80's

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Gwain

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Feb 14, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/14/97
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In the early eighties there was a saturday morning series that had
Spider-man, Iceman, and a female character ( Fire-.......?). Does
anyone know the name of the series?
thanks
gavin

Cypher

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Feb 14, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/14/97
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Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends with Spider-Man, Iceman, and
Firestar.

Cypher
|-| |-|
| \ / | ///
| | \/ | | (. .)
| |\ /| |-------oOO-(_)-OOo-------|
| | \/ | | Kilroy is watching YOU! |
| | | |-------------------------|
| | |_|
| | Close your eyes, look into the dream
| | Winds of change will winds of fortune bring.
|/

Jim Smith

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Feb 14, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/14/97
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In article <3304e54d...@news.erols.com>,

gw...@erols.com (Gwain) wrote:
>
> In the early eighties there was a saturday morning series that had
> Spider-man, Iceman, and a female character ( Fire-.......?). Does
> anyone know the name of the series?

Of course. It was "Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends". The woman's
name was Firestar, who was last seen as a New Warrior in ULTRAGIRL #2.

For more info on the series, use rec.arts.comics.other-media.

Jim Smith

-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet

John Gaddis

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Feb 14, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/14/97
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Gwain wrote:
>
> In the early eighties there was a saturday morning series that had
> Spider-man, Iceman, and a female character ( Fire-.......?). Does
> anyone know the name of the series?
> thanks
> gavin

Spider-Man & his Amazing Friends, featuring Firestar, who they concocted
especially for the cartoon... never really understood why they thought
Spider-Man needed two partners, and I can't remember the reason the show
gave for assembling them..

Cypher

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Feb 14, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/14/97
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John Gaddis wrote:
>
> Gwain wrote:
> >
> > In the early eighties there was a saturday morning series that had
> > Spider-man, Iceman, and a female character ( Fire-.......?). Does
> > anyone know the name of the series?
> > thanks
> > gavin
>
> Spider-Man & his Amazing Friends, featuring Firestar, who they concocted

^^^^^^^^^
> especially for the cartoon...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

WHAT!?!??!?!?
NO!

> never really understood why they thought
> Spider-Man needed two partners, and I can't remember the reason the show
> gave for assembling them..

|-| |-|
| \ / | ///
| | \/ | | (. .) Cypher

gdk...@msu.oscs.montana.edu

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Feb 15, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/15/97
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In article <3304e54d...@news.erols.com>, gw...@erols.com (Gwain) writes:
>In the early eighties there was a saturday morning series that had
>Spider-man, Iceman, and a female character ( Fire-.......?). Does
>anyone know the name of the series?
>thanks
>gavin

Wasn't that "Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends"? Spider-Man, Iceman
and Firestar . . . How the hell did they get THAT combination?

The D-Man
gdk...@trex2.oscs.montana.edu

John Gaddis

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Feb 15, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/15/97
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Cypher wrote:
>
> John Gaddis wrote:
> >
> > Gwain wrote:
> > >
> > > In the early eighties there was a saturday morning series that had
> > > Spider-man, Iceman, and a female character ( Fire-.......?). Does
> > > anyone know the name of the series?
> > > thanks
> > > gavin
> >
> > Spider-Man & his Amazing Friends, featuring Firestar, who they concocted
>
> ^^^^^^^^^
> > especially for the cartoon...
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> WHAT!?!??!?!?
> NO!

Uh... yeah.

That's not to say she didn't show up a little later in the comics, or
maybe even around the same time the series premiered, but I'm pretty
sure. I remember reading one of those "Bullpen Page" or whatever it was
blurbs, saying something like, "You like Firestar from the Spider-Man
cartoon? Well, now watch her make her sensational debut in comics..."

PatDOneill

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Feb 15, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/15/97
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In article <3304E6...@oak.cats.ohiou.edu>, John Gaddis
<gad...@oak.cats.ohiou.edu> writes:

>Spider-Man & his Amazing Friends, featuring Firestar, who they concocted

>especially for the cartoon... never really understood why they thought


>Spider-Man needed two partners, and I can't remember the reason the show
>gave for assembling them..
>
>

In the '80s, the catchphrase for kids programming was "team work"--if we
all
work together, the world will be a wonderful place. It's a great thought
and possibly even true, but it makes for lousy drama. Mark Evanier
skewered
this kind of programming with the Buddy Bears on GARFIELD AND FRIENDS:

"We are the Buddy Bears, we always get along
So if you ever disagree, we know you must be wrong...."

In addition, they undoubtedly thought the series needed a female character
for balance.

Best, Pat

The words and opinions expressed are those of Patrick Daniel O'Neill and do not represent the opinions or policies of WIZARD: THE GUIDE TO COMICS.


Allen W. Wright

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Feb 15, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/15/97
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John Gaddis wrote:

> Uh... yeah.
>
> That's not to say she didn't show up a little later in the comics, or
> maybe even around the same time the series premiered, but I'm pretty
> sure. I remember reading one of those "Bullpen Page" or whatever it was
> blurbs, saying something like, "You like Firestar from the Spider-Man
> cartoon? Well, now watch her make her sensational debut in comics..."

Actually, if you want to get really anal about the whole thing, the
out-of-continuity adaptation of the Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends
premiere episode was released a week or so before the series started.

But I think her first real comic appearance was after the show had
been on for a couple of years. It definitely came out after the show
said she was a member of the X-Men which happened in the series' second
season.

One rumour I heard is that originally they were going to use the
Torch, but they were afraid kids would set themselves on fire. (Which
plays into the myth surrounding Herbie on the 1970's FF cartoon.)

Puck

Air Judden

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Feb 15, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/15/97
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John Gaddis <gad...@oak.cats.ohiou.edu> writes:

>Cypher wrote:
>>
>> John Gaddis wrote:
>> >
>> > Gwain wrote:
>> > >
>> > > In the early eighties there was a saturday morning series that had
>> > > Spider-man, Iceman, and a female character ( Fire-.......?). Does
>> > > anyone know the name of the series?
>> > > thanks
>> > > gavin
>> >

>> > Spider-Man & his Amazing Friends, featuring Firestar, who they concocted
>>

>> ^^^^^^^^^
>> > especially for the cartoon...
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>> WHAT!?!??!?!?
>> NO!

>Uh... yeah.

>That's not to say she didn't show up a little later in the comics, or
>maybe even around the same time the series premiered, but I'm pretty
>sure. I remember reading one of those "Bullpen Page" or whatever it was
>blurbs, saying something like, "You like Firestar from the Spider-Man
>cartoon? Well, now watch her make her sensational debut in comics..."

You are right. I have the comic that was based on the first tv
episode. They make the comment that Spidey and Iceman were
never really "friends" and that firestar wasn't even an actual
character in the MU at the time.

Judden

John Gaddis

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Feb 15, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/15/97
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Allen W. Wright wrote:

> One rumour I heard is that originally they were going to use the
> Torch, but they were afraid kids would set themselves on fire. (Which
> plays into the myth surrounding Herbie on the 1970's FF cartoon.)

You know, my first inclination when I read this was to laugh, but,
thinking about it, that might actually happen somewhere. How many kids
have stepped off rooftops with towels around their necks?

Luis Dantas

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Feb 15, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/15/97
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gw...@erols.com (Gwain) wrote:

>In the early eighties there was a saturday morning series that had
>Spider-man, Iceman, and a female character ( Fire-.......?). Does
>anyone know the name of the series?
>thanks
>gavin

Sure; "Spider-man and his amazing friends". BTW, the female character
was the original version of Firestar (of New Warriors fame), before
the character was adapted for regular continuity.

Believe it or else, the civil identity of this early Firestar was Mary
Jane Watson.

Matthew Slater

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Feb 15, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/15/97
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>>
>Believe it or else, the civil identity of this early Firestar was Mary
>Jane Watson.
>
>
It was not.... It was (and still is) Angelica Jones. I have the
episode
"A Firestar Is Born" and she is clearly NOT Mary Jane Watson.<<

Perhpas she was not named Mary Jane, but I always suspected that her
red hair and free spirit attitude were based off MJ
--
Matthew Slater
Northwestern University
m-sl...@nwu.edu

MrModok

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Feb 16, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/16/97
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>>In the early eighties there was a saturday morning series that had
>>Spider-man, Iceman, and a female character ( Fire-.......?). Does
>>anyone know the name of the series?
>>thanks
>>gavin
>
>Sure; "Spider-man and his amazing friends". BTW, the female character
>was the original version of Firestar (of New Warriors fame), before
>the character was adapted for regular continuity.
>
>Believe it or else, the civil identity of this early Firestar was Mary
>Jane Watson.
>
>
It was not.... It was (and still is) Angelica Jones. I have the episode
"A Firestar Is Born" and she is clearly NOT Mary Jane Watson.

-Jon Trouten-

Card-carrying member of the Friends of Lulu.

John Gaddis

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Feb 16, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/16/97
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Luis Dantas wrote:

> Believe it or else, the civil identity of this early Firestar was Mary
> Jane Watson.

Now _that's_ a surprise-- you mean on the cartoon?

Allen W. Wright

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Feb 16, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/16/97
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Luis Dantas wrote:

> Sure; "Spider-man and his amazing friends". BTW, the female character
> was the original version of Firestar (of New Warriors fame), before
> the character was adapted for regular continuity.
>

> Believe it or else, the civil identity of this early Firestar was Mary
> Jane Watson.

Actually, I don't believe it. Her name in the TV series (and in the
comics too, I think) was Angelica Jones (or Jinx, as the childhood
rivals called her.)

Puck

Cypher

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Feb 16, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/16/97
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There was a story in the FF about this a few years ago. Some kid set
himself on fire trying to be like his idol the Human Torch. Johnny had a
little crisis for an issue about whether or not to continue to use his
powers. Rusty Collins also showed up in the issue. I also just
remembered while writing this that that was one of the first comic books
I ever picked up.

jsm...@imap1.asu.edu

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Feb 16, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/16/97
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Cypher (ra...@acpub.duke.edu) wrote:

: There was a story in the FF about this a few years ago. Some kid set


: himself on fire trying to be like his idol the Human Torch. Johnny had a
: little crisis for an issue about whether or not to continue to use his
: powers. Rusty Collins also showed up in the issue. I also just
: remembered while writing this that that was one of the first comic books
: I ever picked up.

I remember this one, too. It was back during Byrne's run on FF, and
coincided with Secret Wars II (The Beyonder convinces Johnny not to throw
in the towel).

Are you sure Rusty Collins showed up in that one, though? I don't even
think he was a character in the MU at the time. He didn't make his first
appearance until X-Factor #1 to my knowledge- which didn't start until
after SWII ended...

I suppose I could be misremembering

--
------------------------
Cthuludrew, the Great Old One
(aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered college student)
Church of Jimmy Buffett
"Actions have consequences."

Cypher

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Feb 16, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/16/97
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jsm...@imap1.asu.edu wrote:
>
> Cypher (ra...@acpub.duke.edu) wrote:
>
> : There was a story in the FF about this a few years ago. Some kid set
> : himself on fire trying to be like his idol the Human Torch. Johnny had a
> : little crisis for an issue about whether or not to continue to use his
> : powers. Rusty Collins also showed up in the issue. I also just
> : remembered while writing this that that was one of the first comic books
> : I ever picked up.
>
> I remember this one, too. It was back during Byrne's run on FF, and
> coincided with Secret Wars II (The Beyonder convinces Johnny not to throw
> in the towel).
>
> Are you sure Rusty Collins showed up in that one, though? I don't even
> think he was a character in the MU at the time. He didn't make his first
> appearance until X-Factor #1 to my knowledge- which didn't start until
> after SWII ended...
>
> I suppose I could be misremembering
>

I got to thinking about it, and I think the issue with Rusty Collins
might be a follow up to the one you are talking about. The one I know of
also has these three armor-clad going after the Torch. I am sure Rusty
Collins was in it. It came out about the summer of '90, don't know an
exact issue #, though.

Adam Cadre

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Feb 16, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/16/97
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Cypher wrote:
>
> I got to thinking about it, and I think the issue with Rusty Collins
> might be a follow up to the one you are talking about. The one I know
> of also has these three armor-clad going after the Torch. I am sure
> Rusty Collins was in it. It came out about the summer of '90, don't
> know an exact issue #, though.

It's #342, a fill-in during Simonson's run. Interestingly, the cover
and first page are rendered in a Simonsonesque manner -- Tom Morgan's
signature on the cover even looks like a dinosaur -- while the rest
of the issue (it's a big flashback) is drawn very retro.

And for those keeping score, the Byrne issue with the same premise was
#285.

-----
Adam Cadre, Durham, NC
http://www.duke.edu/~adamc

Robert Wicks

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Feb 17, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/17/97
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On 16 Feb 1997 jsm...@imap1.asu.edu wrote:

> Cypher (ra...@acpub.duke.edu) wrote:
>
> : There was a story in the FF about this a few years ago. Some kid set
> : himself on fire trying to be like his idol the Human Torch. Johnny had a
> : little crisis for an issue about whether or not to continue to use his
> : powers. Rusty Collins also showed up in the issue. I also just
> : remembered while writing this that that was one of the first comic books
> : I ever picked up.
>
> I remember this one, too. It was back during Byrne's run on FF, and
> coincided with Secret Wars II (The Beyonder convinces Johnny not to throw
> in the towel).
>
> Are you sure Rusty Collins showed up in that one, though? I don't even
> think he was a character in the MU at the time. He didn't make his first
> appearance until X-Factor #1 to my knowledge- which didn't start until
> after SWII ended...
> I suppose I could be misremembering

You're both right and wrong. The first story took place circa FF#280,
written and drawn by Byrne, and guest starred the Beyonder, who showed
Johnny the important role he played in the young kid's life. The second
story was somewhere around #340 (I think.) This one guest starred Rusty,
who was on the run from these armor wearing mutant hunters (Can't remeber
their names, but this wasn't their first appearance.) Anyway, Johnny and
Rusty team up, and Rusty tells Johnny how one of the first times he used
his powers he seriously burnt a friend of his. Johnny has a flashback to
the time the kid set himself on fire.


M-S-C-L
"You have the option of insanity. I do not! And that makes me
crazy!!!" - Brian Krakow
MY SO CALLED LIFE


Hosun S. Lee

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Feb 17, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/17/97
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Lemme try to address *ALL* the points brought up...yeeesh! B-)

Firestar was Angelica Jones, not Mary Jane Watson, although she did have
more than a passing physical familiarity with MJ. MJ did not appear in
Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends. Most of Spider-Man's supporting cast,
with the exception of Flash, JJJ and a couple others did not show up on a
regular basis.

Her first mainstream comic book apperance was in X-MEN, possibly #200 or
something along that line. She was being used by Empath and Roulette to
frame the X-Men. It was also the first apperance (I think) of Thunderbird
II. This was the point where the X-Men's public opinion really dropped.
She later went onto her own LS (not bad at all, written by Tom
DeFalco and drawn by someone whom I cannot recall, unfortunately) until
finally appearing in New Warriors.

There *WAS* a Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends comic. It may have been
reprinted. I recall it coming out several years after the cartoon show,
adapting the Green Goblin episode. That issue may have been a reprint, if
, as a poster mentioned, the comic book adaptation came out BEFORE the
show.

There were *TWO* "Kid Lights Himself On Fire" issues of FANTASTIC FOUR.
One was during SECRET WARS II and was by Byrne. A young boy named
urr..Tommy Hanson or something like that, is one of those ostracized
lonely youths who end up setting themselves on fire eventually. Wanting to
be like his hero, the Human Torch, he pour gasoline over himself and dies
shortly after telling Torch that he did it just to be like him.

Johnny agonizes over this and decides to give up being the TOrch, until
the Beyonder shows up and points out that Tommy's only source of happiness
in his life was the Human Torch.

Danny Fingeroth did a fill-in issue which fell in between Walt Simonson's
arc. Another kid set himself on fire, but this time, he was in high school
(Tommy was in elementary school). Johnny found a group of teenagers who
basically felt that suicide was the way to go, and the best way to do it
was to light up like the Torch. Rusty Collins ended up bumping into Johnny
while they were both in the park.

The two of them got attacked by the father of the kid who toasted himself,
who very conveniently was a member of a Fingeroth-created trio of armored
super-villains. (I forget their names, but they showed up before in IRON
MAN) Johnny and Rusy defeated the trio, traded stories about burning
people up accidentally and at the end, Johnny gave a speech at the high
school on suicide.

Firestar, on the cartoon, never shot "fire." Her fire always projected
itself in a beam of heat. And when Sunfire appeared later, his powers were
similiarly un-fire like. This was most probably due to the same reasoning
that replaced Johnny Storm on the second Fantastic Four cartoon
with...Robbie the Robot.


--
\\ \\ Hosun Lee
\\_\\ E-Mail: ho...@syr.edu
( X-X) WWW: http://web.syr.edu/~holee/
{_^_} [My Vorpal Bunny(TM) Can Quip Better Than Yours!]

ANTHONY B. CHING

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Feb 17, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/17/97
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Actually, you mean Herbie the robot. But great info anyways.

Albert B. Ching


--

Allen W. Wright

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Feb 17, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/17/97
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Hosun S. Lee wrote:

> There *WAS* a Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends comic. It may have been
> reprinted. I recall it coming out several years after the cartoon show,
> adapting the Green Goblin episode. That issue may have been a reprint, if
> , as a poster mentioned, the comic book adaptation came out BEFORE the
> show.

It came out a week or two before the cartoon as I recall.

>

> Firestar, on the cartoon, never shot "fire." Her fire always projected
> itself in a beam of heat. And when Sunfire appeared later, his powers were
> similiarly un-fire like. This was most probably due to the same reasoning
> that replaced Johnny Storm on the second Fantastic Four cartoon
> with...Robbie the Robot.


That's HERBIE the Robot. And he replaced Johnny, because the Human
Torch was optioned elsewhere. For the 1970's FF series, that kids
setting themselves on fire excuse was just a myth.

In the comics, Johnny explains that he was out of town the day the
contracts had to be signed.

Puck

Hosun S. Lee

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Feb 18, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/18/97
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ANTHONY B. CHING (abc...@aztec.asu.edu) wrote:

: Actually, you mean Herbie the robot. But great info anyways.

Herbie, Robbie, what's the difference? B-)

I just remember seeing an episode of the FF cartoon where they fight
Dragon Man. Let's see, Sue projects force fields, Ben fights the robot and
Reed plans and uses his stretching power.

Herbie floats. Ooooooh. Man, and Dr. Doom was still ALIVE?! Yeeesh...

Jim Smith

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Feb 18, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/18/97
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In article <5ea4jk$6...@newstand.syr.edu>,

ho...@syr.edu wrote:
>
> Firestar, on the cartoon, never shot "fire." Her fire always projected
> itself in a beam of heat. And when Sunfire appeared later, his powers were
> similiarly un-fire like. This was most probably due to the same reasoning
> that replaced Johnny Storm on the second Fantastic Four cartoon
> with...Robbie the Robot.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooohhhh...

I was wondering were the hell that R2-D2 knockoff came from. But why
couldn't they use Crystal or She-Hulk? Or have Johnny fly and shoot
beams without actually flaming on?

Anyway, I think it might almost be worth a few third degree burns to
ditch Robbie. I rented a tape of the FF cartoon a while back, and was
sorely disappointed by the guy, especially because he got last billing,
and by the third FF member, I thought I knew what to expect.

And Jim Smith, the boy with wicker skin! Together, they are the
Fantastic Four!

Theo O'Neal

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Feb 18, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/18/97
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Hosun S. Lee (ho...@newstand.syr.edu) wrote:
: Firestar was Angelica Jones, not Mary Jane Watson, although she did have

: more than a passing physical familiarity with MJ. MJ did not appear in
: Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends. Most of Spider-Man's supporting cast,
: with the exception of Flash, JJJ and a couple others did not show up on a
: regular basis.

Aunt May was there fairly regularly, but for the most part, nobody else.

And let's not forget Ms. Lion (Firestar's dog) and the (thankfully) only
appearances of Peter Parker's Transforming Crime Lab/Headquarters!

: Her first mainstream comic book apperance was in X-MEN, possibly #200 or


: something along that line. She was being used by Empath and Roulette to
: frame the X-Men. It was also the first apperance (I think) of Thunderbird
: II. This was the point where the X-Men's public opinion really dropped.
: She later went onto her own LS (not bad at all, written by Tom
: DeFalco and drawn by someone whom I cannot recall, unfortunately) until
: finally appearing in New Warriors.

The issue of X-Men she was in was #193. Thunderbird had appeared before then,
in issues #16 and #17 of the New Mutants, allied with (who else?) the
Hellions! It was Empath and Roulette who wanted to take out Xavier, mostly
out of spite. James Proudstar was there to actually kill him. Firestar was
the unwitting thrall of Empath.

The Limited Series was pencilled by the talented and not-nearly-seen-enough
Mary Wilshire with covers by Art Adams.

: There *WAS* a Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends comic. It may have been


: reprinted. I recall it coming out several years after the cartoon show,
: adapting the Green Goblin episode. That issue may have been a reprint, if
: , as a poster mentioned, the comic book adaptation came out BEFORE the
: show.

The One-Shot came out in 1988, I believe, which puzzled me at the time, since
the show had been off the air for 2-3 years at that time.

Viel Gluck!

bla...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca

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Feb 18, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/18/97
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PatDOneill (patdo...@aol.com) wrote:

: In the '80s, the catchphrase for kids programming was "team work"--if we


: all
: work together, the world will be a wonderful place. It's a great thought
: and possibly even true, but it makes for lousy drama.

Especially for Spider-Man, who is simply not a team player.

===================== ====================================
BLAINE GORDON MANYLUK email: bla...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
EDMONTON, AB

TDJ

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Feb 18, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/18/97
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To clear up a common misconception, HERBIE was *not* designed as a
replacement for Johnny because the networks were afraid kids would set
themselves on fire. He was designed because the rights to the Human
Torch had already been sold to Universal, who were planning on filming a
pilot for a "Human torch and Sub-Mariner" series set in World War II.

As for why HERBIE instead of Crystal or Medusa...I don't know.

--TDJ


sags

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Feb 18, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/18/97
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gw...@erols.com (Gwain) wrote:

>In the early eighties there was a saturday morning series that had
>Spider-man, Iceman, and a female character ( Fire-.......?). Does
>anyone know the name of the series?
>thanks
>gavin


Gavin,

I think it was Spider-man and Friends. the girl was Firestar


Asparagirl

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Feb 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/19/97
to

Also, regarding "Firestar" (Angelica Jones, former Hellion [Emma Frost's
previous "team" of students before she signed on to teach Generation
X]), her powers in the comic book were slightly different- the comic
book Firestar projected heat rays, microwaves, radiation- you name it.
the TV version projected mostly some sort of fire blast.

- Asparagirl
aspar...@aol.com
M: The Monet St. Croix Home Page ***
http://members.aol.com/asparagirl/m/m_home.html

Comics2000

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Mar 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/4/97
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> > Allen W. Wright wrote:
> >
> > > One rumour I heard is that originally they were going to use the
> > > Torch, but they were afraid kids would set themselves on fire. (Which
> > > plays into the myth surrounding Herbie on the 1970's FF cartoon.)

It's just a rumor... I read a bunch of FF's a couple of weeks ago that
were published when the cartoon premiered (#205-#212, early 80's) and
Shooter or whoever was the chief at the time explained that CBS had the
rights to the Human Torch movie, so the character couldn't be
incorporated into the cartoon. Marv Wolfman, the writer of the FF at the
time, blended the debut of Herbie in the comic perfectly, as he was
Johnny's fill-in while he took some time off the team due to girlfriend
problems.

> > You know, my first inclination when I read this was to laugh, but,
> > thinking about it, that might actually happen somewhere. How many kids
> > have stepped off rooftops with towels around their necks?
>

> There was a story in the FF about this a few years ago. Some kid set
> himself on fire trying to be like his idol the Human Torch. Johnny had a
> little crisis for an issue about whether or not to continue to use his
> powers. Rusty Collins also showed up in the issue. I also just
> remembered while writing this that that was one of the first comic books
> I ever picked up.

Yep, FF #285, a Secret Wars II tie-in if I remember correctly, and you
know what, that was roughly around the same time I seriously started
reading the FF also. Great comic book storytelling by John Byrne at the
top of his FF run.

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