Peter David's "An Open letter to Bill Jemas and Joe Quesada"
Carl Henderson
Quesada" (reprinted with his permission):
------------------------------------------------------------------------
An Open letter to Bill Jemas and Joe Quesada:
Well, I gotta tell you guys: Reading that Captain Marvel was going up in
price to $2.75, along with other critical favorites/fan snubs Spider-Girl
and Black Panther, just gave me a warm, squishy feeling in the pit of my
stomach; and that's a considerable amount of pit.
I know, I know, I could have just called you and discussed this privately.
But on the suggestion of a fan, you raised the prices without calling and
discussing it with me. So I'm just going to follow your lead and air my
thoughts on the matter publicly. And hey, Joe, when you challenged Todd
McFarlane, you didn't do it in a friendly phone call or a telegram. You did
it on the Internet. So if Marvel's leaders have opened the door to handling
publishing affairs publicly, then I'm going to follow that lead right
through the same door. And yes, at the end of this letter, there will be a
challenge, so keep reading.
I've had a good number of fans tell me that they don't buy Captain Marvel-
never even sampled it-for three reasons. First, they have no intrinsic
interest in, or even have an antipathy for, Genis-Vell, the son of Mar-Vell
and our titular hero. Second, believe it or not, because the book is $2.50
rather than $2.25, I've been told point blank that some fans are not
interested in spending the extra quarter on a character who holds no draw
for them.
So learning (second hand, thanks for the heads-up, guys) that the book
would be jumping yet another twenty five cents, well…that loud ringing in
my head sure sounded like a death knell to me, yes indeedy.
I've never written a book like Captain Marvel before. I have never written
a title that has been such a consistent, uniform, resounding critical
success and simultaneously ignored by fans. It's rather wearying, I have to
say, to read review after review that boils down to two things: "This is
one of the best books Marvel is publishing," and "Why is no one buying it?"
Well, it's not exactly "no one," is it. It's "DC numbers." Which is kind of
funny when one thinks that DC numbers include a $7.95 book pulling in the
number one slot, but let's put that aside for a moment.
How creatively uplifting do you folks think it is to have the top guys in
the company singling out a title you work on as in line for the chopping
block? Until now, no one had publicly been saying anything about the series
being in trouble. It was Spider-Girl that had been canceled. But now
Captain Marvel has been given that same near-cancellation taint, and
believe me when I say it is a taint. Just as many people stop watching
television shows when they hear they've been canceled, they will also stop
buying a comic when they think that the end of the title is near. They
figure, "What's the point?"
Indeed, Marvel's history of quick cancellations has been one of the
stumbling blocks to getting people to try Captain Marvel in the first place
(bet you thought I forgot all about a third reason when I mentioned it in
an earlier paragraph, huh?) The reasoning is, "Why bother getting attached
to a title when Marvel's just going to cancel it anyway? If the book does
wind up hanging around for a few years, Marvel will collect it in trade
paperbacks, I'll buy those, get caught up and then start buying it."
Here you've got a title with a loyal readership. It can be perceived that
by raising it a quarter, you are rewarding that readership by allowing the
book to continue. And some of them are indeed grateful, and have the
attitude that they would pay any amount of money to keep reading it.
But not all of them. There is certainly a percentage who will feel that
they are getting screwed. That Marvel is rewarding their continued support
by singling them out to bear an increased cost. That their devotion is
effectively being punished. They'll feel they're being told, You like this
book? Hah! Then you'll have to pay through the nose to get it. And they're
going to resent it, and silently voice that resentment with a closed
wallet. Furthermore, many fans come into stores with a set amount of money
they're going to spend. If a rise in a book's price puts it over that set
amount, they drop the title. Simple as that.
And in the meantime, will anyone new sample the book? Good lord, no. If
they weren't buying it at $2.50, they're sure as hell not going to start at
$2.75.
So by bumping the price up, let's see what's been accomplished in exchange
for keeping the title around for another year: You've stitched the scarlet
"C" of cancellation on it, you've virtually guaranteed a drop in overall
readership from people who will not want to pay the increased price, and
also virtually ensured that no new fans will pick it up because they
consider the title terminal or simply not worth the inflated cover price.
Yes, a handful of fans are grateful. But I suspect the attrition from the
fans who don't share that gratitude and the likely lack of expanding
readership will wind up causing that increased price to be a wash.
Were there other ways to help the title aside from raising it a quarter? Of
course. First, advertising would have helped. There's been none. No
promotion of this book.
Second, every time I did something story-wise to give Marvel a hook into
pushing the series, Marvel has not only fumbled the ball, but the ball's
never even been picked up. I custom wrote a story for #19 to take advantage
of the Marvel Slashback program, a program designed to try and get readers
to sample titles they weren't already buying. Except the program was
limited to Avengers and Incredible Hulk, and at the time, Hulk was ranked
#55 and Avengers was ranked at #6. These needed help? And then the program
was scuttled right before Captain Marvel, buried in the low 80s ranking-
wise, could take advantage of it. Then I developed a four-part time travel
storyline featuring characters from 2099 and Future Imperfect. Not only was
there no promotion of it-not so much as a store flier or in-house ad-but
the solicitation info didn't even make mention of Spider-Man 2099 being in
the series.
Third, the retailer at my favorite local store, Fourth World Comics in
Smithtown, New York, came up with a simple suggestion: Instead of jacking
up the prices twenty five cents on three books not selling well, which will
likely cost sales, why not raise the prices fifteen cents on three books
that are selling great and won't even notice. Yes, that's right, bump up
the price on the X-Men books. For crying out loud, X-Treme X-Men is priced
at $2.99 and it sells comparably to the other titles at $2.25. Use the
increased profits from those books to float critically acclaimed titles
that still need time to find their audiences.
Fourth, you could display faith by saying, "You know, we feel so strongly
that people should be buying Captain Marvel that we're going to knock the
price down to $2.25 to encourage people to pick it up, and heavily promote
it to boot." But I suspect you won't do that because, in business terms, it
would be perceived as "throwing good money after bad." You've decided the
series will never sell better than bottom rung, and are simply going to
help it limp along for a while so that you're not the bad guys canceling a
critically acclaimed book.
Well, guys: I don't like to limp. I don't like to see fans penalized an
extra quarter just for supporting the book. Young Justice has been on a
consistent sales upswing lately, and I've got plans afoot for Supergirl
that I think are going to pull people in by the carload. But Captain Marvel
has an albatross around its neck that you hung there, so I think a
different and more drastic approach is called for.
I did the math. When we multiply the book's circulation by twenty five
cents, and then subtract the distributor discount, we're really only
talking a few thousand more dollars in the coffers.
Fine. I have faith in the book and faith, as foolish as it may sound, that
quality-given enough time-will pull in readership. There are books that I
do more for love and interest than money, since the publishers can't afford
my normal page rate. Soulsearchers and Company has been one. The Haunted is
another. I'm prepared to put Captain Marvel into that category…and
hopefully my work on those lowly DC titles you diss will help offset the
sacrifice.
If Marvel does not raise the price on Captain Marvel, then I in turn will
effectively write the book for free. Not completely; we all know that if I
don't get paid, that jeopardizes the book's "work-for-hire" status. So I
will write the book for .95 cents a page, for a total of (get this) $20.99
per issue. The difference between that and what I presently earn should
offset the increase of 25 cents that you would have charged the fans. And I
will continue to write the book for $20.99 an issue until such time that
the book breaks into Diamond's top 50 or sells over 25,000 copies an issue,
whichever comes first.
And in addition, there's got to be some serious promotion for the title.
House ads, at the very least. Ads in CBG or Wizard. Another trade paperback
collection would be great. In short, act as if the acclaim the book's been
receiving is something you're genuinely proud of and want to run with,
instead of simply a cross to bear that requires you to keep the title
around in some fashion.
On the surface, this seems an insane offer. But I don't see it that way.
See, I'm convinced that if you bump the series up to $2.75, we're dead in a
year. So the income will stop anyway. But I think the book, if given time,
will eventually attract the audience that critics and Wizard Magazine have
been screaming it deserves, so in two years I'll still have a book to write
and with any luck I'll be back to getting paid for it.
So that's the offer. I don't want to see the fans who have been supportive
up until now be singled out for a price increase just because they've been
enjoying the series that the Captain Marvel creative team has been
producing. And if Marvel feels that the book simply can't be profitable
enough to continue publishing under the current P&L situation, I can
respect that. So I'll change the P&L, cutting out my P to offset your L. In
short, I'm willing to put my money, rather than the fans' money, where my
mouth is.
Over to you.
Best regards,
Peter David"
(Copyright (c) 2002 Second Age, Inc. First appeared in Comic Buyer's
Guide. Reprinted with permission.)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note to Peter David's net stalkers. I'm not Peter David; and he's not
posting this to RAC.misc and RAC.marvel.universe. Just in case you all
can't handle reading "From:" headers.
--
Carl Henderson carl.he...@airmail.net
RAC/RACM FAQ http://www.enteract.com/~katew/faqs/miscfaq.htm
Lee K. Seitz
Carl Henderson <carl.he...@airmail.net> wrote:
>Here's the texts of Peter David's "Open Letter to Bill Jemas and Joe
>Quesada" (reprinted with his permission):
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>An Open letter to Bill Jemas and Joe Quesada:
>If Marvel does not raise the price on Captain Marvel, then I in turn will
>effectively write the book for free. Not completely; we all know that if I
>don't get paid, that jeopardizes the book's "work-for-hire" status. So I
>will write the book for .95 cents a page, for a total of (get this) $20.99
>per issue.
I applaud Mr. David's actions, but his math needs a little work. To
get paid $20.99 per issue at $0.95 per page, he'll have to write
approximately 22.095 pages per issue. I wasn't aware writers got paid
for or that Marvel published fractions of page. Well, maybe he'll
write 9.5% of the letter column. (Hey, this is Usenet. If I didn't
bring this up, someone else would.)
--
Lee K. Seitz * lks...@hiwaay.net * http://home.hiwaay.net/~lkseitz/
O-
Talon The Merciful
Carl says...
>
>Here's the texts of Peter David's "Open Letter to Bill Jemas and Joe
>Quesada" (reprinted with his permission):
As I stated on Comicon, this was a gutsy and clever move by Mr. David. I
applaud him for trying to fight the idiocy behind the "sales are bad, so let's
raise the prices" type of corporate (bonehead) thinking. I'd be willing to
support the book if Marvel accepts his offer.
Talon T M
Absolute Ruler of RACM
Johanna Draper Carlson
> Then I developed a four-part time travel storyline featuring characters from
> 2099 and Future Imperfect. Not only was there no promotion of it-not so
> much as a store flier or in-house ad-but the solicitation info didn't even make
> mention of Spider-Man 2099 being in the series.
Are 2099 characters seen as a plus, really?
> Fourth, you could display faith by saying, "You know, we feel so strongly
> that people should be buying Captain Marvel that we're going to knock the
> price down to $2.25 to encourage people to pick it up, and heavily promote
> it to boot." But I suspect you won't do that because, in business terms, it
> would be perceived as "throwing good money after bad."
Price cuts are widely seen as not working, or not being worth it, as
Marvel's own abandonment of the Slashback program (as Mr. David
mentions) shows.
I'm curious -- who are the critics that Peter David states have been
favorably reviewing the book? Can someone provide quotes or pointers?
Now, all that said, BRAVO! to Mr. David for putting his money where his
mouth is AND beating Marvel at their own game in outrageous public
statements. I wish him and his book the best.
--
Johanna Draper Carlson joh...@comicsworthreading.com
Reviews of Comics Worth Reading -- http://www.comicsworthreading.com
Paul O'Brien
Draper Carlson <joh...@comicsworthreading.com> writes
>
>I'm curious -- who are the critics that Peter David states have been
>favorably reviewing the book? Can someone provide quotes or pointers?
One of this week's letters pages devotes a column to quoting all of
the good reviews. (And that's something that would presumably have
been sent to press before PAD wrote his open letter - not that he
was necessarily to know that.)
Paul O'Brien
THE X-AXIS REVIEWS - http://www.esoterica.demon.co.uk
ARTICLE 10 - http://www.ninthart.com
Brevity is the sister of talent.
John Northey
>Here's the texts of Peter David's "Open Letter to Bill Jemas and Joe
>Quesada" (reprinted with his permission):
Quite the step by David. I have only tried a few issues (the
Micronauts ones) and enjoyed them, but not enough to pick it up
regularly. Sadly, the store I've shopped at is closed now (RIP Harry)
but I'll keep an eye out for the first TPB and look into trying the
series now. If a high level creator is willing to be paid crap wages
($20.99 an issue) to do it then odds are something good is inside.
Either that or David is just nuts, in which case the comic will
probably be fun anyways 8)
John Northey.
"Professional baseball is on the wane. Salaries must come down
or the interest of the public must be increased in some way.
If one or the other does not happen, bankruptcy stares every
team in the face."
-- Chicago White Stockings owner Albert Spalding, 1881
R. Tang
Tashfeen Bhimdi <tbhim...@attbi.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:30:17 -0500, Johanna Draper Carlson
><joh...@comicsworthreading.com> wrote:
>
>>Peter David wrote:
>>
>>> Then I developed a four-part time travel storyline featuring characters from
>>> 2099 and Future Imperfect. Not only was there no promotion of it-not so
>>> much as a store flier or in-house ad-but the solicitation info didn't even make
>>> mention of Spider-Man 2099 being in the series.
>>
>>Are 2099 characters seen as a plus, really?
>
>about the other 2099 characters.
Only if you read the book. Which you can't nowadays, since the
2099 line isn't being published anymore (hmmm....a point's there....).
--
-
-Roger Tang, gwan...@u.washington.edu, Artistic Director PC Theatre
- Editor, Asian American Theatre Revue [NEW URL][Yes, it IS new]
- http://www.aatrevue.com
Dave Doty
> Ellis' run on Doom 2099 is seen as a plus I think, can't really say
> about the other 2099 characters.
I think she meant, are guest appearances by 2099 characters in today's
comics seen as a plus.
I think PAD's view is probably that it could draw fans of the old series,
who don't get to see their characters anymore, to try out the book.
Especially since he is returning to the character he created, which was one
of the better runs from that line.
Given how quickly future-variant characters tend to be forgotten once they
get the axe, and their future becomes dated (and watered-down cyberpunk was
pretty tired even when the line launched), I suspect it wouldn't have the
result he was hoping for even if it had been hyped more.
Still, it probably couldn't have hurt, and there's the off chance that he
might have been right.
Dave Doty
Sean Walsh
news:johanna-41898E...@news.mindspring.com...
> Peter David wrote:
>
> > Then I developed a four-part time travel storyline featuring characters
from
> > 2099 and Future Imperfect. Not only was there no promotion of it-not so
> > much as a store flier or in-house ad-but the solicitation info didn't
even make
> > mention of Spider-Man 2099 being in the series.
>
> Are 2099 characters seen as a plus, really?
Well it's Spider-Man 2099. Spidey being the key (could attract readers, as
well as old 2099 fans who're still reading and praying to statues of Duke
Stratospheare and Venom 2099 for some sort of return...well, I've been
praying to statues...)
Sean
:)
--
New Gods Library: http://fastbak.tripod.com
Quantum Piett! http://www.geocities.com/quantumpiett/
My latest eBay auctions: http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/slwalsh/
JTS
Ok what can I say? I am so impressd with Peter David's letter. i am
impressed with his challenge, and his concern for the character. i for
one will start reading Captain Marvel Again! I must confess Mr.
David hit the nail right on the head. It held no intrinsic value for
me whatsoever. The firt 10 issues were really good then after that,
somewhere along the line I lost interest. But I have always made it a
point to at least pick up the issue and see if I want to start reading
it again. Now if Marvel does increase the price I will not even
bother. So please take note Mr. Jemas and Mr. Quesada if hold off on
the price raise and show your readers and your creative staff some
faith in them, you will at least have one new reader.
Chad
>> effectively write the book for free. Not completely; we all know that if I
>> don't get paid, that jeopardizes the book's "work-for-hire" status. So I
>> will write the book for .95 cents a page, for a total of (get this) $20.99
>> per issue. The difference between that and what I presently earn should
>> offset the increase of 25 cents that you would have charged the fans. And I
>> will continue to write the book for $20.99 an issue until such time that
>> the book breaks into Diamond's top 50 or sells over 25,000 copies an issue,
>> whichever comes first.
Well he won me over. I will now start buying Captain Marvel as long as
the book costs $2.50. I always liked the idea of the character but
felt no one ever really realized his potential until Avengers Forever
(Thanks Kurt!) - so I tried PAD's first 6 issues but it didn't do it
for me. And yet I keep hearing how great it is. And now PAD has put
himself out there for it. I'm sold.
Now lets see if JoeyQ and Jemas are.
-Chad
Kenmlin
>about the other 2099 characters.
I personally think that Ellis ruined the entire 2099 with Doom for President
storyline. He killed off all the supporting characters Moore created.
Johanna Draper Carlson
> Johanna Draper Carlson <joh...@comicsworthreading.com> writes
> >
> >I'm curious -- who are the critics that Peter David states have been
> >favorably reviewing the book? Can someone provide quotes or pointers?
>
> One of this week's letters pages devotes a column to quoting all of
> the good reviews.
Ok, then, can someone summarize that letter page?
Matthew Thompson
> get paid $20.99 per issue at $0.95 per page, he'll have to write
> approximately 22.095 pages per issue. I wasn't aware writers got paid
> for or that Marvel published fractions of page. Well, maybe he'll
> write 9.5% of the letter column. (Hey, this is Usenet. If I didn't
> bring this up, someone else would.)
You do get the 2099 reference, don't you?
maffrew
______________________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Binaries.net = SPEED+RETENTION+COMPLETION = http://www.binaries.net
Thomas Galloway
by Joe Quesada and Christopher Priest.
tyg t...@panix.com
Michael Alan Chary
Thomas Galloway <t...@panix.com> wrote:
>And for those interested, now up at www.comicon.com/newsarama are responses
>by Joe Quesada and Christopher Priest.
If Priest's alternative to Black panther is writing Sugar and Spike, I
have *got* to see this. Jemas, JoeQ, cancel that puppy now, and let's get
some Priest Sugar and Spike.
--
Mike Chary, Court Philosopher and Barbarian, DNRC
"I bought the Star Trek chess set and the Civil War chess set. Now I have
the South fight the Klingons." -- Dave Spensley
"Ipsa scientia potestas est." - Roger Bacon
Lee K. Seitz
Matthew Thompson <mat...@lwol.com> wrote:
>> I applaud Mr. David's actions, but his math needs a little work. To
>> get paid $20.99 per issue at $0.95 per page, he'll have to write
>> approximately 22.095 pages per issue. I wasn't aware writers got paid
>> for or that Marvel published fractions of page. Well, maybe he'll
>> write 9.5% of the letter column. (Hey, this is Usenet. If I didn't
>> bring this up, someone else would.)
>
>You do get the 2099 reference, don't you?
Yes, I did. But perhaps he should have mentioned $20.99 first and
then said what a great deal of $0.95 per page that was. Then I would
have assumed he rounded it off. Instead, he did it the other way
around.
(Gonna have to modify my random signature process so I can pick one if
I want to. I really need "Of course 'anal-retentive' has a hyphen"
for this one.)
Bala Menon
news:a6uh5b$tuj$1...@wilson.uits.indiana.edu...
> In article <a6uequ$o2i$1...@panix2.panix.com>,
> Thomas Galloway <t...@panix.com> wrote:
> >And for those interested, now up at www.comicon.com/newsarama are
responses
> >by Joe Quesada and Christopher Priest.
>
> If Priest's alternative to Black panther is writing Sugar and Spike, I
> have *got* to see this. Jemas, JoeQ, cancel that puppy now, and
> let's get some Priest Sugar and Spike.
Not unless Priest's channelling Sheldon Mayer.
No one else gets to write Sugar and Spike.
Not if I get a say in it, anyway. Sptzl ! Glaah !
--
Bala Menon (bala...@panix.com)
Stranger
> > the good reviews.
>
> Ok, then, can someone summarize that letter page?
Whole bunch of people saying this is the greatest book you're not reading.
The quotes are from:
Wizard, Newsarama, Comics International, Heroes Realm, and IGN.com
--
Stranger- Impulse's #1 fan, next to Max of course.
Dale Hicks
<AEB4410B855CA629.E4F49A90...@lp.airnews.net>,
carl.he...@airmail.net says...
> But on the suggestion of a fan, you raised the prices without calling and
> discussing it with me.
When do fans get to suggest pricing issues? Is this a strawman built to
suggest that fans get to decide Marvel's pricing policies?
> at $2.99 and it sells comparably to the other titles at $2.25. Use the
> increased profits from those books to float critically acclaimed titles
> that still need time to find their audiences.
I think everyone's commented on the sheer wrongness of this peal.
And Quesada's response, though harsh, was perfect:
"I guess there isn’t a possibility in hell that it could be you, is
there? That perhaps you’re writing a book that isn’t accessible, or
penetrable, to all but your most hard-core enthusiast."
But to Da Q, you can blame CrissCross if you want -- he's the main thing
keeping me away. I kept reading his SHADOW CABINET/HEROES/whateveritwas
back in the day, but the wash colors made _any_ art gorgeous, and I was
engrossed in the story. I like PAD's SUPERGIRL, and I enjoyed AVENGERS
FOREVER, so I was set to buy the book until I saw the art.
--
Cranial Crusader dgh...@bellsouth.net
Brett Todd
Quesada and Priest. Neither address any of David's arguments about what the
price increase will do to circulation, presumably because there's really no
way to disagree with what he says. The stigma of these books being on the
verge of death is there. The $2.75 US cover price is going to turn off old
readers and it sure isn't going to draw in any new ones. Things are much
more likely to get worse for Black Panther, Captain Marvel, and Spider-Girl
in the coming months. This price increase pretty much kills them. Why is the
leadership at Marvel so braindead? I can't think of any other industry that
would try to save a product, dying because of consumer disinterest, by
raising its price. It makes no sense in any way. I do admire Marvel's
determination to save these titles--well Panther and Marvel, at least, I
tried Spider-Girl and dumped it after about six months--but this isn't going
to work.
Also, I take real offense to Quesada's "some fans are not interested in
spending the extra quarter on a character who holds no draw for them (this
one made me scratch my head)." It's not about the 25 cents, it's about
getting a fair deal for your money. And we're simply not, in comparison with
the cost of other forms of entertainment, particularly many other forms of
reading material. I know that you can't quantify these things, but the
average reader perceives that he's getting a better deal from a $7.99
paperback novel, or a $3.99 magazine, than a $2.25-$3.25 US comic.
Comics can't go up ANY higher in price, if the industry is to survive beyond
the next decade. If you're having money troubles with a title and want to
save it, try going with cheaper paper, ink, or other production costs, if at
all possible. Ask the authors and artists to take less money for a while
(hey, getting paid 80% of your old salary on a book is better than getting
0% if the book is cancelled). Sign up a new creative team. Just don't raise
prices any more. Please.
And where do Quesada and Priest get the idea that David is hostile to
Marvel? I thought that the letter was constructive, if a little
representative of the way that he feels put out over not being notified of
the Marvel price hike. I guess if you don't blindly toe the party line,
you're the next best thing to an anarchist to these guys. If anyone deserves
criticism here, it's Priest for his disingenuous (not to mention
hypocritical) "I offered to quit" statements. Yeah, that would be helpful,
wouldn't it? To keep the book going, Marvel could can the popular writer and
hire cheaper talent. Boy, that'd really pull in the readers.
If Priest really does "believe in the work" that he's doing, it'd be better
to take a cut in pay for a little while and try to build the readership.
That's the constructive thing to do, and it is certainly something that a
lot of us have had to face during the recent economic downturn. Writing that
"if I turn my computer on, somebody up these will be signing a check" is
arrogant and obnoxious, especially at the opening of a letter dealing with a
price increase to the man's readers. No apologies, no "this sucks" (though
that does come later) -- just a blatant "I'm in this for the money"
statement right off the top. Doesn't exactly make me want to write a check
of my own for a Marvel subscription.
Brett
PS -- Anyone know why Marvel charges more than the exchange rate right now
for some titles in Canada? That really offends me, particularly when every
other periodical on the newsstand (and damn near every other product on the
market) weighs the difference between the US and Canadian prices based on
what the market in Canada will bear, not what the exact exchange rate is
each month.
"Thomas Galloway" <t...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:a6uequ$o2i$1...@panix2.panix.com...
Todd Kogutt: Scavenger
<mch...@steel.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote:
> In article <a6uequ$o2i$1...@panix2.panix.com>,
> Thomas Galloway <t...@panix.com> wrote:
> >And for those interested, now up at www.comicon.com/newsarama are responses
> >by Joe Quesada and Christopher Priest.
>
> If Priest's alternative to Black panther is writing Sugar and Spike, I
> have *got* to see this. Jemas, JoeQ, cancel that puppy now, and let's get
> some Priest Sugar and Spike.
Well of course I don't want to see anything happen to Panther, but I
sure liked the idea of a Priest Sugar and Spike too:-)
---SCAVENGER
David W. Stepp
>
>Ok what can I say? I am so impressd with Peter David's letter. i am
>impressed with his challenge, and his concern for the character. i for
>one will start reading Captain Marvel Again! I must confess Mr.
>David hit the nail right on the head. It held no intrinsic value for
>me whatsoever. The firt 10 issues were really good then after that,
>somewhere along the line I lost interest. But I have always made it a
>point to at least pick up the issue and see if I want to start reading
>it again. Now if Marvel does increase the price I will not even
>bother. So please take note Mr. Jemas and Mr. Quesada if hold off on
>the price raise and show your readers and your creative staff some
>faith in them, you will at least have one new reader.
I don't think you get the point. This is simple economics. The
cost of producing anything has to be divided by the number of
customers. The smaller the fanbase, the larger portion of the load
each has to bear.
The most gratifying thing in this tempest-in-a-teapot is that
I have been saying this for nearly 300 years. PAD can't write for
anyone but people who already have a built in tolerance for whatever's
he dishing out. If you look at PAD's books over the past 3-5 years
(where we have circulation data), you see the same pattern repeatedly.
He starts out strong, wins some fanbase, slashes it down by ~2/3 over
the next 12 months and declares himself a critical success until the
book is canceled. When it is, he claims he wasn't given a fair shake.
He is a marginal writer. He writes books that are marginal performers.
They are full of in-jokes, PAD working out personal problems (and he
thinks people stalk him after reading that!), continuity tangles he
finds interesting (but he is "too good a writer" for those he doesn't)
and whole lot of treading water while he tends the other irons he has
in the fire.He stretches his minimal talent well beyond its limits. It
doesn't hold up. The books drag along and til someone gets tired of
looking at it and drops the ax.
And I've seen it all along. I am so wise.
D.
Dale Hicks
says...
> Great letter by Peter David. Typically corporate gutless responses from
> Quesada and Priest. Neither address any of David's arguments about what the
> price increase will do to circulation, presumably because there's really no
> way to disagree with what he says.
Umm... did you read the response? Q flat out called PAD a liar by
telling him of several ads and promotions that Marvel had produced.
When you consider the other alternative (perhaps) was to cut your losses
and pull the plug, do you think an extra quarter is the worse choice?
> leadership at Marvel so braindead? I can't think of any other industry that
> would try to save a product, dying because of consumer disinterest, by
> raising its price. It makes no sense in any way.
But there are other industries that raise prices for the less popular
items, allowing them to still produce them, just with a higher cost to
the purchaser.
> Comics can't go up ANY higher in price, if the industry is to survive beyond
> the next decade.
Interesting prediction. And a familiar one.
> If you're having money troubles with a title and want to
> save it, try going with cheaper paper, ink, or other production costs,
Apparently this is the death knell here. I don't understand what this is
based on, but from the reactions I've seen, there's an anathema in the
industry to print on newsprint anymore. They must feel that no one would
buy, regardless of the story. I can somewhat believe it with the stuff
I've seen here with the "color dots suck" and "Ditko/Cockrum sucks"
statements.
> [...] Ask the authors and artists to take less money for a while
> (hey, getting paid 80% of your old salary on a book is better than getting
> 0% if the book is cancelled).
That presumes you can't ursurp someone else in another gig (I'm sure
there are plenty of temporary teams and teams that can't make schedule
out there -- the industry's not dead yet).
> If anyone deserves
> criticism here, it's Priest for his disingenuous (not to mention
> hypocritical) "I offered to quit" statements.
Heh. You better duck.
> Yeah, that would be helpful,
> wouldn't it? To keep the book going, Marvel could can the popular writer
There are some (so I'm told) that don't "get" Priest, and haven't really
enjoyed anything he's written in his comics career.
> Writing that
> "if I turn my computer on, somebody up these will be signing a check" is
> arrogant and obnoxious,
If I go and work on documentation for a software change I just put in,
someone will be writing a check. (I might just do the software bit for
free, if there's enough of a challenge and not a lot of repetitive stuff)
> Doesn't exactly make me want to write a check
> of my own for a Marvel subscription.
They're people too. I'm well aware of what "freelance" likely means
(with a few notable name exceptions). I figure even our local god
Busiek, despite his name status, struggles at points where he's fighting
his sickness. I'm not aware of Priest being independently wealthy.
Working stiffs like us that happen to make the magic. So they want to
get paid? I'm in total agreement.
As long as it's fun, dig a little deeper and give them their nickel.
When it's not worth it, get out, and let comics mutate into whatever the
next stage is.
--
Cranial Crusader dgh...@bellsouth.net
Dale Hicks
dste...@comcast.net says...
>
> The most gratifying thing in this tempest-in-a-teapot is that
> I have been saying this for nearly 300 years. PAD can't write for
> anyone but people who already have a built in tolerance for whatever's
> he dishing out. If you look at PAD's books over the past 3-5 years
> (where we have circulation data),
And past the highly-acclaimed HULK run?
I'm on the fence. Where he's being too jokey, I don't care for it, but
I've enjoyed HULK and SUPERGIRL. I think that he's done some of the best
work in comics, and he's done some of the worst (and while likely true
for any writer, his stuff tends to stay at the polar extremes, with
little midling stuff).
--
Cranial Crusader dgh...@bellsouth.net
Andrew Ducker
news:a6uequ$o2i$1...@panix2.panix.com:
> And for those interested, now up at www.comicon.com/newsarama are
> responses by Joe Quesada and Christopher Priest.
And I think the Joe Quesada one is perfectly correct, making a very good
point:
The fans aren't buying it. They know about it, they've been told it's
there. But they aren't buying it.
Personally, I rather like Captain Marvel (I have the TPB and will buy a
second one if it appears), but if I'm in the minority and there aren't the
sales to actually make the book profitable, then there's no reason for
Marvel to sell the book.
If Peter David wants to go independent and write his own comic books, and
keep them up, no matter what the cost, that's up to him. But Marvel aren't
there to subsidise unpopular comics.
Andy D
Pat ONeill
>I don't understand what this is
>based on, but from the reactions I've seen, there's an anathema in the
>industry to print on newsprint anymore. They must feel that no one would
>buy, regardless of the story.
Actually, it's more of a technology issue. Frankly, modern printing systems
cannot use newsprint--at least not the kind of newsprint comics used 20 years
ago. Even newspapers use a better quality of paper than they did at that
time...something close to the lowest quality of paper comics use now.
Best, Pat
Johanna Draper Carlson
> The quotes are from:
> Wizard, Newsarama, Comics International, Heroes Realm, and IGN.com
Thank you, this is what I was curious about. I wondered how close the
sources came to being ones close to my tastes.
Newsarama runs reviews now? Or was that Mike Sangiamo's (sp) column?
What's Heroes Realm?
Johanna Draper Carlson
> Writing that
> "if I turn my computer on, somebody up these will be signing a check" is
> arrogant and obnoxious
No, it's realistic, and it shows that he values his own work to the
extent of expecting to be compensated fairly.
Don't mistake Mr. David's publicity stunt for an indication of how
policy should be established.
Dwight Williams
>
> In article <a6uequ$o2i$1...@panix2.panix.com>,
> Thomas Galloway <t...@panix.com> wrote:
> >And for those interested, now up at www.comicon.com/newsarama are responses
> >by Joe Quesada and Christopher Priest.
>
> If Priest's alternative to Black panther is writing Sugar and Spike, I
> have *got* to see this. Jemas, JoeQ, cancel that puppy now, and let's get
> some Priest Sugar and Spike.
With our luck, it will likely end up that *if* _BP_ gets the axe, there
won't *be* any Priest-written _Sugar and Spike_...so that plan is NOT
on...
I'd imagine Priest could spare time enough to write *both* books,
though, assuming the heirs of Sheldon Mayer wouldn't mind...
--
Dwight Williams - Orleans(Ottawa), ON, Canada
Personal Homesite: http://www.ncf.ca/~ad696/
*I* own my Usenet postings, not some archival service!
Marc-Oliver Frisch
Stranger wrote:
> Whole bunch of people saying this is the greatest book you're not reading.
> The quotes are from:
>
> Wizard, Newsarama, Comics International, Heroes Realm, and IGN.com
Erm, well, I like the book anyway...
--Marc
David W. Stepp
<dgh...@bellSPAMsouth.net.invalid> wrote:
>And past the highly-acclaimed HULK run?
>
>I'm on the fence. Where he's being too jokey, I don't care for it, but
>I've enjoyed HULK and SUPERGIRL. I think that he's done some of the best
>work in comics, and he's done some of the worst (and while likely true
>for any writer, his stuff tends to stay at the polar extremes, with
>little midling stuff).
Hulk is unknowable because we are lacking the data. And some people
(about 20,000 or so) enjoy of each of PAD's titles to varying degrees
and for varying reasons. Marvel and to a lesser extent DC feel that
20-someK titles are not worth what it costs to publish them. We are
reaching that fabled bottom of the barrel when fan favs, critically
acclaimed books and marginal titles become all one and the same. The
downward spiral of writing the books to a smaller and smaller audience
is catching up with them. The end is nigh.
Buy Archives instead.
D.
Marc-Oliver Frisch
Dale Hicks wrote:
> When do fans get to suggest pricing issues? Is this a strawman built to
> suggest that fans get to decide Marvel's pricing policies?
According to Jemas himself, the price change was a fan's suggestion.
It's a rhetorical twist, certainly, but I wouldn't say it's a straw-man.
> And Quesada's response, though harsh, was perfect:
> "I guess there isn’t a possibility in hell that it could be you, is
> there? That perhaps you’re writing a book that isn’t accessible, or
> penetrable, to all but your most hard-core enthusiast."
Perfect? I'd rather say it's pretty stupid to go right out and make it plain
that you don't give a rat's ass about a book you're publishing, and
subsequently the people who work on , buy and enjoy that particular book-- Not
that everybody wouldn't have guessed that by now anyway.
--Marc
Andrew Ducker
news:3C93595F...@t-online.de:
> Dale Hicks wrote:
>> And Quesada's response, though harsh, was perfect:
>> "I guess there isn’t a possibility in hell that it could be you, is
>> there? That perhaps you’re writing a book that isn’t accessible, or
>> penetrable, to all but your most hard-core enthusiast."
>
> Perfect? I'd rather say it's pretty stupid to go right out and make it
> plain that you don't give a rat's ass about a book you're publishing,
> and subsequently the people who work on , buy and enjoy that
> particular book-- Not that everybody wouldn't have guessed that by now
> anyway.
Yeah, it'd be pretty stupid to do that. I'm glad he didn't do that. He
encouraged people to read it, has done what he can to protect it from the
'beancounters' and seems to want it to be a success. But, as he says, if
people don't want to read it, they won't.
Andy D
Landru99
verge of death is there. The $2.75 US cover price is going to turn off old
readers and it sure isn't going to draw in any new ones. Things are much more
likely to get worse for Black Panther, Captain Marvel, and Spider-Girl in the
coming months. This price increase pretty much kills them.>>
No, the price increase actually just saved them. These books are not
profitable and if not for the price increase, would have ceased to exist.
Pediod. How can any fan of these books complain about a price increase hurting
a book's circulation when the only alternative is the book ceasing to exist? I
fail to see the logic in this agument.
Marc-Oliver Frisch
Andrew Ducker wrote:
> Yeah, it'd be pretty stupid to do that. I'm glad he didn't do that. He
> encouraged people to read it, has done what he can to protect it from the
> 'beancounters' and seems to want it to be a success. But, as he says, if
> people don't want to read it, they won't.
Sorry, but I fail to see how calling a book "inaccessible" and
"impenetrable", raising its price by 25 cents and pretty much announcing that
it's going to be canceled in a few months counts as encouraging people to buy
it.
--Marc
Matthew Thompson
Andrew Ducker <And...@Ducker.org.uk> wrote:
> t...@panix.com (Thomas Galloway) wrote in
> news:a6uequ$o2i$1...@panix2.panix.com:
>
> > And for those interested, now up at www.comicon.com/newsarama are
> > responses by Joe Quesada and Christopher Priest.
>
> And I think the Joe Quesada one is perfectly correct, making a very good
> point:
>
> The fans aren't buying it. They know about it, they've been told it's
> there. But they aren't buying it.
>
<snip>
I think that Quesada's response missed the point. I think David's point
was that he's established himself over the years as someone who puts a
lot of himself into a series, commits to it, and expects not to have to
read about his series being on the verge of cancellation in a press
release. This is not to say that the powers should discuss all their
decisions with the creators, or even that they should favor creators
with a longer history. It only says that there should be some
communication down the line, communication about the reality of the
situation. David's method of handling this with an open letter
underscores the issue by making the powers aware of his reaction in the
same way that David became aware of the action in the first place.
At least, that's what I think his point was, along with a little
bitterness about the series not hitting its target audience somewhere
along the line.
Richard Carter
: > If Priest's alternative to Black panther is writing Sugar and Spike, I
: > have *got* to see this. Jemas, JoeQ, cancel that puppy now, and let's get
: > some Priest Sugar and Spike.
: Well of course I don't want to see anything happen to Panther, but I
: sure liked the idea of a Priest Sugar and Spike too:-)
Maybe Warren Ellis could have them guest-star in Transmet.
--
Rick Carter
cart...@email.uc.edu Rick....@ParadoxCommunity.com
Paul O'Brien
<Der...@t-online.de> writes
>
>> When do fans get to suggest pricing issues? Is this a strawman built to
>> suggest that fans get to decide Marvel's pricing policies?
>
>According to Jemas himself, the price change was a fan's suggestion.
>
>It's a rhetorical twist, certainly, but I wouldn't say it's a straw-man.
And it would hardly be the first time that fans of low-selling titles
have announced on the net that they would happily pay more or buy two
copies in order to keep a book alive. It was only a matter of time
before somebody took them up on the offer.
Paul O'Brien
THE X-AXIS REVIEWS - http://www.esoterica.demon.co.uk
ARTICLE 10 - http://www.ninthart.com
Brevity is the sister of talent.
Paul O'Brien
Hicks <dgh...@bellSPAMsouth.net.invalid> writes
>
>And Quesada's response, though harsh, was perfect:
>"I guess there isn’t a possibility in hell that it could be you, is
>there? That perhaps you’re writing a book that isn’t accessible, or
>penetrable, to all but your most hard-core enthusiast."
And like it or not, there is some truth to this criticism. This is a
book which is currently running, in the space of one issue, storylines
picking up on three separate Peter David plots - the Jackie Shorr
subplot from Incredible Hulk (which at least pertains to a regular
character in Captain Marvel), the Maestro storyline (which doesn't)
and Spider-Man 2099 (which isn't even on the same planet).
This does have many of the hallmarks of a nostalgia trip for Peter
David's hardcore fanbase, which is hardly the way to bring in new
readers. Two of those plots don't even have anything to do with the
series.
Paul O'Brien
<Der...@t-online.de> writes
>
>Sorry, but I fail to see how calling a book "inaccessible" and
>"impenetrable", raising its price by 25 cents and pretty much announcing that
>it's going to be canceled in a few months counts as encouraging people to buy
>it.
I think, perhaps understandably given its sales figures, Quesada has
pretty much given up hope that Captain Marvel is ever going to be a
high seller, and figures that an extra year of life for the benefit of
its fanbase is the best it's realistically going to get.
Larry Bernard
> I don't think you get the point. This is simple economics. The
> cost of producing anything has to be divided by the number of
> customers. The smaller the fanbase, the larger portion of the load
> each has to bear.
No thats not simple economics. Its alot like a car dealership
in a car dealership profit is not made in the new cars, but they make the
bulk of the money on the used cars. why because they have a larger profit
margin in the used car division.
in this case, as peter pointed out , the better selling (i.e higher profit
margin) comics should get the higher price. A) because their fanbase will
pay that price and B)it enables you to generate a higher profit margin in
other areas ( i.e expansion)
Larry Bernard
> downward spiral of writing the books to a smaller and smaller audience
> is catching up with them. The end is nigh.
>
> Buy Archives instead.
I'll agree this is the problem in general, however , change the direction on
the books so they don't get overly compartmentalized.
Improve the quality of the writing ( their are alot of really POOR quality
books)
less collector pollybag hokum
try to get the books out to more people ( you can't live by subscriptions or
comic book stores alone)
Chris Schumacher
<dgh...@bellSPAMsouth.net.invalid> wrote:
>But to Da Q, you can blame CrissCross if you want -- he's the main thing
>keeping me away. I kept reading his SHADOW CABINET/HEROES/whateveritwas
>back in the day, but the wash colors made _any_ art gorgeous, and I was
>engrossed in the story. I like PAD's SUPERGIRL, and I enjoyed AVENGERS
>FOREVER, so I was set to buy the book until I saw the art.
I remember picking the book up again solely for the Spidey-2099
crossover, and wondering why Rick Jones was suddenly black...
I mean, he really didn't change race, did he?
-==Kensu==-
Larry Bernard
"Andrew Ducker" <And...@Ducker.org.uk> wrote in message
news:Xns91D379745EEF9...@212.23.8.2...
again looking at the economic model, lots of books can go from hot to not
depending ont he product.
but if you kept JUSt the profitable books marvel could just spin xmen off
into its own line and close down most everything else.
however thats not going to serve the company better longterm. In art ( like
movies, music, tv) you have to be able to afford risks. The flagships ( like
your x-titles) provide the range of money to take risks. I think Peter david
makes a point that maybe ( maybe) for books with smaller audiences the
current price is to high, while other books with big audiences ( who would
pay an extra 15-25 cents an issue and thus give marvel more creative range)
the price is to low
Larry Bernard
"Marc-Oliver Frisch" <Der...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:3C936B84...@t-online.de...
If anything it says to fans "its going to die" and they leave it be
Larry Bernard
"Landru99" <land...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020316103834...@mb-bg.aol.com...
an alternative is a better buisness strategy for marvel, where the load is
carried by the books which earn money , and they then work to grow the total
number of books that earn
a real buisness spends MUCH MORE then a few years to get any new product
profitable. they use established earners to make up for any lack of profit
during that time period
Larry Bernard
"Paul O'Brien" <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:finbndAN...@esoterica.demon.co.uk...
> In article <3C936B84...@t-online.de>, Marc-Oliver Frisch
> <Der...@t-online.de> writes
> >
> >Sorry, but I fail to see how calling a book "inaccessible" and
> >"impenetrable", raising its price by 25 cents and pretty much announcing
that
> >it's going to be canceled in a few months counts as encouraging people to
buy
> >it.
>
> I think, perhaps understandably given its sales figures, Quesada has
> pretty much given up hope that Captain Marvel is ever going to be a
> high seller, and figures that an extra year of life for the benefit of
> its fanbase is the best it's realistically going to get.
Maybe instead of money they should focus on why its not selling
Jim Wilkerson
> I think that Quesada's response missed the point.
Surprisingly, I think Quesada made some excellent points. Most importantly,
it's evident that David believes his own press. Major error that when the
numbers don't support it.
> I think David's point
> was that he's established himself over the years as someone who puts a
> lot of himself into a series, commits to it, and expects not to have to
> read about his series being on the verge of cancellation in a press
> release.
What makes him so special that he should receive preferred treatment? There
are many many creators that put their heart and soul into projects that
don't make it. David is no different. And as far as finding out about
cancellation rumors in press releases? The numbers speak for themselves and
a creator would have to be blind not to see it coming. I'm not so sure that
this was one of his points anyway.
> This is not to say that the powers should discuss all their
> decisions with the creators, or even that they should favor creators
> with a longer history. It only says that there should be some
> communication down the line, communication about the reality of the
> situation.
The reality is evident every month when the number come in and the book's
numbers continue to fall.
And on a tangent note.....David's actions seems a bit hypocritical to me.
On one side he writes a blistering critique against fans, how he doesn't owe
them a damn thing and, without any supporting evidence, accusing them of
drooling over his wedding pictures. Then he goes and offers to write CM
"free" for the fans and give them an additional economic reason to jump on
board. Sorry, his anti-fan rant still resonates with me and I'm not buying
into this CM affair.
Jim Wilkerson
Chad
>keeping me away. I kept reading his SHADOW CABINET/HEROES/whateveritwas
>back in the day, but the wash colors made _any_ art gorgeous, and I was
>engrossed in the story. I like PAD's SUPERGIRL, and I enjoyed AVENGERS
>FOREVER, so I was set to buy the book until I saw the art.
Not me. I wasn't even aware of Criss Cross when Captain Marvel came
out. I didn't think he was bad and I gave PAD a chance to win me over.
I really enojyed the original Mar-Vell but couldn't get into Genis in
his first series. (Horrible costume - bad story - forgettable art) But
Busiek really found his potential in Avengers Forever. But after 6
issues PAD drove me away with a lackluster storyline and blah
characterizations.
-Chad
Chad
>to take a cut in pay for a little while and try to build the readership.
>That's the constructive thing to do, and it is certainly something that a
>lot of us have had to face during the recent economic downturn.
Really? You know a lot of people who are doing the same job they were
a year ago who took a pay cut? I know some people who were laid off
and found lower paying jobs. I know some people who quit and found
better paying jobs. But I don't know anyone who is doing the same job
but making less money.
Unless you're talking about a sales position. And hey, that's life for
those people. You don't hear them complaining when the economy is
booming. (My brother is in sales).
As for Priest offering to quit... he wasn't offering to quit so they
could bring in cheaper talent. He was offering to quit if they thought
the book could sell better with a different writer, with different
ideas. Not cheaper. Stop ragging on the guy.
-Chad
Chad
> have a built in tolerance for whatever's he dishing out.
> If you look at PAD's books over the past 3-5 years
>(where we have circulation data), you see the same pattern repeatedly.
>He starts out strong, wins some fanbase, slashes it down by ~2/3 over
>the next 12 months and declares himself a critical success until the
>book is canceled.
Except for the Hulk I'd agree with most of what you said. I enjoyed
his Hulk run from beginning to Heroes Reborn. I couldn't get into the
stupid Hulk again. the only other thing of his I enjoyed was his
X-Factor run and the first few issues of Soulsearchers & Co. I never
liked Spidey 2099, Supergirl, Young Justice or Captain Marvel. And I
gave all of them a shot because his Hulk run was so good.
Personally I'd rather a new creative team had taken over a year ago
rather than let the numbers run down this low of CM to where it's
either a price hike or cancellation.
-Chad
Chad
>verge of death is there. The $2.75 US cover price is going to turn off old
>readers and it sure isn't going to draw in any new ones. Things are much more
>likely to get worse for Black Panther, Captain Marvel, and Spider-Girl in the
>coming months. This price increase pretty much kills them.
No. Instead they are trying to keep something around even longer for
the fans who like this book. If those fans want it - they'll have to
pay for it.
Here's a more "real-world" comparison: Head down to your local grocery
store. Look at all the various Orange Juice available to you. Notice
the different prices on some even though they come in the same sizes?
Well, some people like calcium in their OJ, other like low-acid, and
then there are the people who love pulp. And they all pay a different
price - and you know why? Because costs vary in production.
Now lets go back to comics. Todd McFarlane was able to keep Spawn at
$1.95 for a horrendously long time. You know why? Becuase it was
consistently in the top ten in sales and it had licensing contracts to
help offset costs. PAD ain't cheap, Criss Cross is making more than a
beginner's page rate I'm sure, but the book they work on is not
selling the numbers. So the people who want to keep buying the book
are going to have to pay more to keep it.
Just like those people who want premium OJ.
Economics is the name of the game.
-Chad
Chad
>
>in a car dealership profit is not made in the new cars, but they make the
>bulk of the money on the used cars. why because they have a larger profit
>margin in the used car division.
>
>in this case, as peter pointed out , the better selling (i.e higher profit
>margin) comics should get the higher price. A) because their fanbase will
>pay that price and B)it enables you to generate a higher profit margin in
>other areas ( i.e expansion)
Except that comics publishing probably has very little in common with
a car dealership. So that's a lousy comparison.
-Chad
And yes, I know I just got done comparing comics to orange juice. [g]
Chad
I've never understood this line of thinking. If they are going to
cancel one of your favorite seres, why would you not want to buy the
last few issues? That makes no sense to me whatsoever.
Fan holding issue #33 of SuperDude: "Damn the last issue is going to
be #36! But I love this book!" (Puts 33 back on the shelf]
Where's the logic in that!??!?!
-Chad
Chad
>that you don't give a rat's ass about a book you're publishing, and
>subsequently the people who work on , buy and enjoy that particular book-- Not
>that everybody wouldn't have guessed that by now anyway.
JoeyQ wasn't insulting the book... he was insulting the storyline and
writer of said book. There is a difference. Slight in this case, but
there none the less.
-Chad
Marc-Oliver Frisch
Chad wrote:
> I've never understood this line of thinking. If they are going to
> cancel one of your favorite seres, why would you not want to buy the
> last few issues? That makes no sense to me whatsoever.
The point is that you don't attract a lot of new readers to a book by
telling them it's going to be canceled in a year.
Of course the loyal hardcore audience will most likely keep buying.
--Marc
Johanna Draper Carlson
> Where's the logic in that!??!?!
The last couple issues of a series can be a satisfying resolution, or
they can be done by people who are already paying more attention to
their next gig (or working on getting the next gig). Quality can vary
widely. When people are working under the idea that they could be
cancelled any time in the next twelve months, it just doesn't make for
the best work environment, and sometimes that's reflected in the
product.
Also, if the reader is a fan of the continuing serial story, his
interest can drop if he knows that there will be no more story soon.
--
Johanna Draper Carlson joh...@comicsworthreading.com
Reviews of Comics Worth Reading -- http://www.comicsworthreading.com
Stranger
news:johanna-
> Thank you, this is what I was curious about. I wondered how close the
> sources came to being ones close to my tastes.
>
> Newsarama runs reviews now? Or was that Mike Sangiamo's (sp) column?
>
> What's Heroes Realm?
They attribute the quote to "Comicon.com's Newsarama" - I'm not sure who
wrote the review, but I would think Mike is a good guess.
And that should be Herorealm.com
--
Stranger- Impulse's #1 fan, next to Max of course.
Chad
But my comment was made in regards to the comment that people drop a
book when they find out it's going to be cancelled. I can't figure out
why those people would quit a series they know is ending soon. I'd
want to read right up to the last little bit and get as much out of it
as possible.
-Chad
Chad
>The last couple issues of a series can be a satisfying resolution, or
>they can be done by people who are already paying more attention to
>their next gig (or working on getting the next gig). Quality can vary
>widely. When people are working under the idea that they could be
>cancelled any time in the next twelve months, it just doesn't make for
>the best work environment, and sometimes that's reflected in the
>product.
>
>Also, if the reader is a fan of the continuing serial story, his
>interest can drop if he knows that there will be no more story soon.
I can see where your coming from but that's not a valid arguement for
the statement (not your statement so don't feel responsible for it
:-). Dropping a book because the quality suffers is a valid reason and
one I agree with, whether the book is being canceled or not. But
dropping a book simply because it's going to be canceled is another.
Without reading those issues the buyer (or non-buyer in this case)
never knows if the quality will suffer. My assumption has always been
that those last few issues will resolve the storylines I've been
reading and enjoying. But (I forget who said it now) people dropping
books only because it will be canceled just doesn't make any sense to
me whatsoever. There's no logic.
Your explanation makes sense, as I said and agree with, but it doesn't
fit the arguement in ths case: that people will stop buying a comic
series after learning it will be canceled.
-Chad
Brett Todd
world, where rates are down pretty much across the board over the past two
years because of lower ad revenue. But there are also a lot of people in
other industries who have accepted wage rollbacks, job sharing, rotating
layoffs, and other plans as the alternative to losing their jobs outright.
And yeah, I know more than a few of them. It's been happening all over the
place for the past 18 months or so. In just about every business, too.
Sales, sure, but also a lot of factories, newspapers (ad sales again), etc.
As for Priest's reasons...that's not how I read his explanation. Probably
part of it, but certainly the option of bringing in a cheaper creative staff
was paramount. And if you're going to write a letter like that, you should
expect some crticism.
Brett
"Chad" <comi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ta779u4rdrg5injrb...@4ax.com...
Brett Todd
long-standing. If you've only recently started reading, or have been
considering starting to read it, there is little chance that you're going to
pick up that book.
Brett
"Chad" <comi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:kh979ukes6c6l5fmv...@4ax.com...
JTS
Priest.
I think I'll stop buying Marvel all together and stick to DC.
Thank you very much Mr Priest. Maybe you can give classes to Mr
Quesada and Mr David on how to have such conversations in an adult
respectable manner. I had written that i would read Capt Marvell, but
after reading your response I think i'd rather spend the money on
Black Panther. Assuming that I decide to read MArvel again. Thank
you.
>
> > In article <a6uequ$o2i$1...@panix2.panix.com>,
> > Thomas Galloway <t...@panix.com> wrote:
> > >And for those interested, now up at www.comicon.com/newsarama are responses
> > >by Joe Quesada and Christopher Priest.
> >
> > If Priest's alternative to Black panther is writing Sugar and Spike, I
> > have *got* to see this. Jemas, JoeQ, cancel that puppy now, and let's get
> > some Priest Sugar and Spike.
>
>
> Well of course I don't want to see anything happen to Panther, but I
> sure liked the idea of a Priest Sugar and Spike too:-)
>
>
> ---SCAVENGER
Brett Todd
free, and as a freelance writer myself, I honestly hope that he gets as much
cash for his work as he can. But if the product isn't selling, he's got the
choice of holding to his rate and losing the gig entirely, or taking less
cash and keeping it. From Priest's attitude in that letter, I have to assume
that he wants his full regular rate or he's walking. That's unrealistic in
this market--in any writing freelance market these days--and
self-destructive.
Most of all, I didn't like the petulant tone of that comment. It reminded me
a lot of Linda Evangelista's infamous "I don't get out of bed for $10,000 a
day," of all things. It just isn't a good way to phrase your opinion,
especially when most of the people reading it are thinking that the guy's
living a dream. Not saying that his pov isn't logical, but it just isn't
appropriate for this forum.
Bottom line--you don't save a product by raising its price.
Brett
"Johanna Draper Carlson" <joh...@comicsworthreading.com> wrote in message
news:johanna-F4A0EC...@news.mindspring.com...
> "Brett Todd" <btodd...@recorder.ca> wrote:
>
> > Writing that
> > "if I turn my computer on, somebody up these will be signing a check" is
> > arrogant and obnoxious
>
> No, it's realistic, and it shows that he values his own work to the
> extent of expecting to be compensated fairly.
>
> Don't mistake Mr. David's publicity stunt for an indication of how
> policy should be established.
Chad
>Actually, I was referring directly to freelance writing in the non-comic
>world, where rates are down pretty much across the board over the past two
>years because of lower ad revenue.
Ah but we don't know if Priest has been affected by this or even what
his going rate is for BP. So suggesting he take a paycut isn't really
for us, the fans, to decide. Plus rememeber this was in comparison
with PAD's suggestion he take an enormous paycut ($20.99 an issue)
which he can presumably afford. Priest, I doubt, is in that type of
situation.
>But there are also a lot of people in
>other industries who have accepted wage rollbacks, job sharing, rotating
>layoffs, and other plans as the alternative to losing their jobs outright.
>And yeah, I know more than a few of them. It's been happening all over the
>place for the past 18 months or so. In just about every business, too.
>Sales, sure, but also a lot of factories, newspapers (ad sales again), etc.
Sorry to hear about your friends, family and/or acquaintances. In my
circle everybody - except my father who is still dragging his midlife
crisis on a 10+ year stretch - has continued par for the course for
some time. Even my brother in sales - but then he works for a
pharmaceutical company. So bugger him.
>As for Priest's reasons...that's not how I read his explanation. Probably
>part of it, but certainly the option of bringing in a cheaper creative staff
>was paramount. And if you're going to write a letter like that, you should
>expect some crticism.
Sure criticsm is fine - it just seemed like you were coming down on
him personally and rather unfairly, for what I deemed misconstrued
reasoning. Your reply to me however came across quite admirably. Still
think you're wrong about Priest though. [g]
-Chad
I don't even read Black Panther! But I did just order the trade.
Brett Todd
doing this has led to some form of longterm success. I can't think of one.
I've seen this sort of thing happen before with certain products, and even
magazines, but at best it's given the faltering product another few months
to a year of life. Like David says, a stigma gets attached and a death watch
starts from the moment the poor popularity issue becomes public.
Brett
"Dale Hicks" <dgh...@bellSPAMsouth.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:MPG.16fcdd57a...@news1.lig.bellsouth.net...
>
> But there are other industries that raise prices for the less popular
> items, allowing them to still produce them, just with a higher cost to
> the purchaser.
>
> > Comics can't go up ANY higher in price, if the industry is to survive
beyond
> > the next decade.
>
> Interesting prediction. And a familiar one.
>
> > If you're having money troubles with a title and want to
> > save it, try going with cheaper paper, ink, or other production costs,
>
> Apparently this is the death knell here. I don't understand what this is
> based on, but from the reactions I've seen, there's an anathema in the
> industry to print on newsprint anymore. They must feel that no one would
> buy, regardless of the story. I can somewhat believe it with the stuff
> I've seen here with the "color dots suck" and "Ditko/Cockrum sucks"
> statements.
>
> > [...] Ask the authors and artists to take less money for a while
> > (hey, getting paid 80% of your old salary on a book is better than
getting
> > 0% if the book is cancelled).
>
> That presumes you can't ursurp someone else in another gig (I'm sure
> there are plenty of temporary teams and teams that can't make schedule
> out there -- the industry's not dead yet).
>
> > If anyone deserves
> > criticism here, it's Priest for his disingenuous (not to mention
> > hypocritical) "I offered to quit" statements.
>
> Heh. You better duck.
>
> > Yeah, that would be helpful,
> > wouldn't it? To keep the book going, Marvel could can the popular writer
>
> There are some (so I'm told) that don't "get" Priest, and haven't really
> enjoyed anything he's written in his comics career.
>
> > Writing that
> > "if I turn my computer on, somebody up these will be signing a check" is
> > arrogant and obnoxious,
>
> If I go and work on documentation for a software change I just put in,
> someone will be writing a check. (I might just do the software bit for
> free, if there's enough of a challenge and not a lot of repetitive stuff)
>
> > Doesn't exactly make me want to write a check
> > of my own for a Marvel subscription.
>
> They're people too. I'm well aware of what "freelance" likely means
> (with a few notable name exceptions). I figure even our local god
> Busiek, despite his name status, struggles at points where he's fighting
> his sickness. I'm not aware of Priest being independently wealthy.
> Working stiffs like us that happen to make the magic. So they want to
> get paid? I'm in total agreement.
>
> As long as it's fun, dig a little deeper and give them their nickel.
> When it's not worth it, get out, and let comics mutate into whatever the
> next stage is.
>
> --
> Cranial Crusader dgh...@bellsouth.net
>
Chad
>That only makes sense if you're an established reader of fairly
>long-standing. If you've only recently started reading, or have been
>considering starting to read it, there is little chance that you're going to
>pick up that book.
But isn't that what JoeyQ and PAD were discussing? CM is on what?
Issue 29, 30? I consider those "established" fans. But these are also
the people who are gonna drop the book if it's announced it will be
canceled?
PAD:
"But now Captain Marvel has been given that same near-cancellation
taint, and believe me when I say it is a taint. Just as many people
stop watching television shows when they hear they've been canceled,
they will also stop buying a comic when they think that the end of the
title is near. They figure, 'What's the point?' "
These are the loyal fans he wants to protect? These are the readers he
wants to save the book for? (I'm using a lot of question marks aren't
I?) I'm just confused by this whole thought process. If a television
show I'm watching is canceled - I watch the last few to see the
resolution. Closure. I do the same with a comic series I'm collecting
that is canceled. I want to read the "ending."
That's why this statement by PAD and from what I saw realized while
working in a comic shop back during college makes so little sense to
me. It's not what I would do. So I'm looking for rationalization that
I can understand.
-Chad
Brett Todd
effort goes downhill fast in the final episodes/issues. A lot of the time
there is no resolution or closure in any way, either. It's cancelled, so it
just ends. Unless you get a lot of notice about the cancellation, too,
there's no way you can wrap everything up properly. Hopefully, Marvel won't
can these three so abruptly when the (almost) inevitable does happen, but
it's happened in the past.
Brett
"Chad" <comi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ofj79ugvjnnrrhcc0...@4ax.com...
Johanna Draper Carlson
> If a television show I'm watching is canceled - I watch the last few to see the
> resolution. Closure.
You appear to be unusual in this regard, honestly. I'm not sure I can
explain it beyond that.
Johanna Draper Carlson
> if the product isn't selling, he's got the
> choice of holding to his rate and losing the gig entirely, or taking less
> cash and keeping it.
Well, no, he doesn't. Until Peter David made that offer, no one
seriously considered anything like that as an option.
Since the publisher is the legal author of the work (in most cases),
they're the ones that have to figure out whether to cut costs or cancel
the book.
> From Priest's attitude in that letter, I have to assume
> that he wants his full regular rate or he's walking. That's unrealistic in
> this market
I don't think we can speak to that, since we're not aware of the details
of his contract.
I'm also not sure it's valid to make a straight comparison with comic
work and other freelance arenas. Comics often has historical reasons
(not necessarily good ones) for doing things differently.
> Most of all, I didn't like the petulant tone of that comment.
Any petulance you're reading in is your interpretation. It's straight
text, and I certainly didn't get petulance out of that.
Cappy Morgan
"Johanna Draper Carlson" <joh...@comicsworthreading.com> wrote in message
news:johanna-F4A0EC...@news.mindspring.com...
> "Brett Todd" <btodd...@recorder.ca> wrote:
>
> > "if I turn my computer on, somebody up these will be signing a check" is
>
> No, it's realistic, and it shows that he values his own work to the
> extent of expecting to be compensated fairly.
>
> Don't mistake Mr. David's publicity stunt for an indication of how
> policy should be established.
I just hope his publicity stunt works. If anything, this is a brillant way
to draw attention to both books. I too think creators should get paid, but
I do admire PAD's commitment and radical idea. I think it would be foolish
of Marvel to not take it (they are certainly going to have to state "why" if
they say "no".) If they are talking publicity...this deal is one that would
definitely draw some attention to the title and Marvel in general.
Cappy Morgan
"Landru99" <land...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020316103834...@mb-bg.aol.com...
> <<The stigma of these books being on the
> verge of death is there. The $2.75 US cover price is going to turn off old
> readers and it sure isn't going to draw in any new ones. Things are much
more
> likely to get worse for Black Panther, Captain Marvel, and Spider-Girl in
the
> coming months. This price increase pretty much kills them.>>
>
> profitable and if not for the price increase, would have ceased to exist.
> Pediod. How can any fan of these books complain about a price increase
hurting
> a book's circulation when the only alternative is the book ceasing to
exist? I
> fail to see the logic in this agument.
The price increase doesn't bother me...they are overpriced as it is...I can
practically buy a paperback novel in comparison. I enjoy the medium and
love the CM title, so I will pay the extra .25 cents. I don't care for it,
but because I like the title, I'll still buy it. I do believe there are
some who will not because of the price increase. However, PAD has clearly
given an alternative. One that I don't think should be ignored.
Cappy Morgan
"Talon The Merciful" <talon...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a6tll...@drn.newsguy.com...
> In article
<AEB4410B855CA629.E4F49A90...@lp.airnews.net>,
> Carl says...
> >
> >Here's the texts of Peter David's "Open Letter to Bill Jemas and Joe
> >Quesada" (reprinted with his permission):
>
> As I stated on Comicon, this was a gutsy and clever move by Mr. David. I
> applaud him for trying to fight the idiocy behind the "sales are bad, so
let's
> raise the prices" type of corporate (bonehead) thinking. I'd be willing
to
> support the book if Marvel accepts his offer.
I'd be more willing to support Marvel in general if they accepted this
offer. It would be such a radical way of showing commitment to their
creators and the fans I'd have to respect them. I know I'm only one in
millions, but my pledge would be to pick up two new Marvel titles if they
accepted this offer.
Cappy Morgan
> Peter David wrote:
>
> > Then I developed a four-part time travel storyline featuring characters
from
> > 2099 and Future Imperfect. Not only was there no promotion of it-not so
> > much as a store flier or in-house ad-but the solicitation info didn't
even make
> > mention of Spider-Man 2099 being in the series.
>
> Are 2099 characters seen as a plus, really?
Actually, I recall Spidey 2099 being pretty popular. PAD left the book and
it slid into a decline. I think it was the god awful other 2099 books that
causes this perception. He did mention that there was a tie in to Furture
Imperfect, that JQ blew off as not being accessable to new readers, blah,
blah. It would have worked for me if I wasn't reading the series and saw
that the FI Hulk was making an appearance.
>
> > Fourth, you could display faith by saying, "You know, we feel so
strongly
> > that people should be buying Captain Marvel that we're going to knock
the
> > price down to $2.25 to encourage people to pick it up, and heavily
promote
> > it to boot." But I suspect you won't do that because, in business terms,
it
> > would be perceived as "throwing good money after bad."
>
> Price cuts are widely seen as not working, or not being worth it, as
> Marvel's own abandonment of the Slashback program (as Mr. David
> mentions) shows.
Well, I think Marvel has been presented with a tempting alternative.
>
> I'm curious -- who are the critics that Peter David states have been
> favorably reviewing the book? Can someone provide quotes or pointers?
Wizard, CSN are two that come to mind. Also, I've read positive reviews on
various internet sites.
>
> Now, all that said, BRAVO! to Mr. David for putting his money where his
> mouth is AND beating Marvel at their own game in outrageous public
> statements. I wish him and his book the best.
Ditto! Amen.
Cappy Morgan
"David W. Stepp" <dste...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:3c930e67...@news.ga.comcast.giganews.com...
> On 15 Mar 2002 16:27:32 -0800, sagn...@erols.com (JTS) wrote:
> >
> >Ok what can I say? I am so impressd with Peter David's letter. i am
> >impressed with his challenge, and his concern for the character. i for
> >one will start reading Captain Marvel Again! I must confess Mr.
> >David hit the nail right on the head. It held no intrinsic value for
> >me whatsoever. The firt 10 issues were really good then after that,
> >somewhere along the line I lost interest. But I have always made it a
> >point to at least pick up the issue and see if I want to start reading
> >it again. Now if Marvel does increase the price I will not even
> >bother. So please take note Mr. Jemas and Mr. Quesada if hold off on
> >the price raise and show your readers and your creative staff some
> >faith in them, you will at least have one new reader.
>
> I don't think you get the point. This is simple economics. The
> cost of producing anything has to be divided by the number of
> customers. The smaller the fanbase, the larger portion of the load
> each has to bear.
>
> The most gratifying thing in this tempest-in-a-teapot is that
> I have been saying this for nearly 300 years. PAD can't write for
> anyone but people who already have a built in tolerance for whatever's
> he dishing out. If you look at PAD's books over the past 3-5 years
> (where we have circulation data), you see the same pattern repeatedly.
> He starts out strong, wins some fanbase, slashes it down by ~2/3 over
> the next 12 months and declares himself a critical success until the
> He is a marginal writer. He writes books that are marginal performers.
> They are full of in-jokes, PAD working out personal problems (and he
> thinks people stalk him after reading that!), continuity tangles he
> finds interesting (but he is "too good a writer" for those he doesn't)
> and whole lot of treading water while he tends the other irons he has
> in the fire.He stretches his minimal talent well beyond its limits. It
> doesn't hold up. The books drag along and til someone gets tired of
> looking at it and drops the ax.
>
> And I've seen it all along. I am so wise.
Wow, your response caused me to think you were a Marvel bean counter or
management. Then you said you were wise : )
Cappy Morgan
Interestingly enough, I'd have dropped the title if they switched creative
teams.
Cappy Morgan
"Marc-Oliver Frisch" <Der...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:3C936B84...@t-online.de...
>
>
> Andrew Ducker wrote:
>
> > Yeah, it'd be pretty stupid to do that. I'm glad he didn't do that. He
> > encouraged people to read it, has done what he can to protect it from
the
> > 'beancounters' and seems to want it to be a success. But, as he says,
if
> > people don't want to read it, they won't.
>
> Sorry, but I fail to see how calling a book "inaccessible" and
> "impenetrable", raising its price by 25 cents and pretty much announcing
that
> it's going to be canceled in a few months counts as encouraging people to
buy
> it.
Oh, you left out his criticism of the creator.
Cappy Morgan
"Brett Todd" <btodd...@recorder.ca> wrote in message
news:DWPk8.23$qn2.4...@news.ripnet.com...
> That only makes sense if you're an established reader of fairly
> long-standing. If you've only recently started reading, or have been
> considering starting to read it, there is little chance that you're going
to
> pick up that book.
>
> Brett
Really? What makes you think a new reader isn't going to pick up Captain
Marvel? It has catchy cover art, features a cool looking super hero and has
a humourous slant. It certainly would have appealed to me when I first
started reading comics.
Cappy Morgan
> Chad <comi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > If a television show I'm watching is canceled - I watch the last few to
see the
> > resolution. Closure.
>
> You appear to be unusual in this regard, honestly. I'm not sure I can
> explain it beyond that.
The X-Files has been cancelled (or delcared this is their final
season)...I'm certainly watching the last 10 episodes to get resoultion.
Thomas Galloway
Chad <comi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Really? You know a lot of people who are doing the same job they were
>a year ago who took a pay cut? I know some people who were laid off
>and found lower paying jobs. I know some people who quit and found
>better paying jobs. But I don't know anyone who is doing the same job
>but making less money.
Microsoft recently announced that all of its Bay Area employees will have
a 10% pay cut starting in August (technically, they're cutting the geographic
based 25% pay suppliment to 15%, but the memo basically states that "Hey,
the BA job market sucks, we don't have to worry so much about you jumping ship
to somewhere else now, so we're cutting the pay). Agilent did an across the
board 10% pay cut last year. There are probably others, but these are two
significant, large, companies doing that.
tyg t...@panix.com
Paul O'Brien
<btodd...@recorder.ca> writes
>From Priest's attitude in that letter, I have to assume
>that he wants his full regular rate or he's walking. That's unrealistic in
>this market--in any writing freelance market these days--and
>self-destructive.
It's perfectly realistic if he has other job offers willing to pay him
his existing rate. Your logic only holds true if Priest's choice is
between writing Black Panther and taking a job flipping burgers. I
would like to think that that is not the case.
Paul O'Brien
THE X-AXIS REVIEWS - http://www.esoterica.demon.co.uk
ARTICLE 10 - http://www.ninthart.com
Brevity is the sister of talent.
Paul O'Brien
<losti...@mmcable.com> writes
>
>He did mention that there was a tie in to Furture
>Imperfect, that JQ blew off as not being accessable to new readers, blah,
>blah. It would have worked for me if I wasn't reading the series and saw
>that the FI Hulk was making an appearance.
But as you say, you're already reading the comic. Are there all that
many people out there who aren't already reading this Peter David
comic, and yet would suddenly pick it up because it tied in to another
Peter David story? Really?
Paul O'Brien
<losti...@mmcable.com> writes
> I think it would be foolish
>of Marvel to not take it (they are certainly going to have to state "why" if
>they say "no".)
PAD's letter left them a handy way to justify saying no: his offer
was conditional on Marvel spending money on promoting the comic.
Depending on what level of expenditure he's looking for, and what other
demands there are on the Marvel advertising budget, that may well give
them an eminently good reason for declining.
Paul O'Brien
<comi...@hotmail.com> writes
>
>But isn't that what JoeyQ and PAD were discussing? CM is on what?
>Issue 29, 30? I consider those "established" fans. But these are also
>the people who are gonna drop the book if it's announced it will be
>canceled?
Whether it makes sense or not, retailers do have an established
track record of cutting back orders on books which are nearing
cancellation.
Cappy Morgan
"Paul O'Brien" <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:+a2T5dAK...@esoterica.demon.co.uk...
> In article <YHQk8.87716$991.19...@typhoon.kc.rr.com>, Cappy Morgan
> <losti...@mmcable.com> writes
> > I think it would be foolish
> >of Marvel to not take it (they are certainly going to have to state "why"
if
> >they say "no".)
>
> PAD's letter left them a handy way to justify saying no: his offer
> was conditional on Marvel spending money on promoting the comic.
> Depending on what level of expenditure he's looking for, and what other
> demands there are on the Marvel advertising budget, that may well give
> them an eminently good reason for declining.
I think they could do a group promotion of all the great books "that you are
not reading". That would be justifiable and make excellent business sense.
Chad
>> If a television show I'm watching is canceled - I watch the last few to see the
>> resolution. Closure.
>
>You appear to be unusual in this regard, honestly. I'm not sure I can
>explain it beyond that.
Fair enough - I've been called worse before! [g]
-Chad
Jack Bohn
>PAD's letter left them a handy way to justify saying no: his offer
>was conditional on Marvel spending money on promoting the comic.
>Depending on what level of expenditure he's looking for, and what other
>demands there are on the Marvel advertising budget, that may well give
>them an eminently good reason for declining.
Just another thought. Considering how the upper level of Marvel
"forgets" things, (I just picked up the Moore CAPTAIN BRITAIN
collection and was reminded of this,) PAD should wait until he
sees advertising in print before he takes the pay cut.
--
-Jack
Marc-Oliver Frisch
Paul O'Brien wrote:
> And like it or not, there is some truth to this criticism.
I'm not debating that, but I don't think it's wise of the editor in chief
to publicly fire such probably true criticisms at the writer of a
struggling book he happens to be publishing.
Not only is that likely to damage the book further, but the message it
sends to readers and creators is rather ugly.
--Marc
Marc-Oliver Frisch
Cappy Morgan wrote:
> The X-Files has been cancelled (or delcared this is their final
> season)...I'm certainly watching the last 10 episodes to get resoultion.
What season are you currently up to, across the big pond?
--Marc
Talon The Merciful
>
>And it would hardly be the first time that fans of low-selling titles
>have announced on the net that they would happily pay more or buy two
>copies in order to keep a book alive. It was only a matter of time
>before somebody took them up on the offer.
Stupid, stupid fan creatures.
Talon T M
Absolute Ruler of RACM
Johanna Draper Carlson
> Not only is that likely to damage the book further, but the message it
> sends to readers and creators is rather ugly.
There's all kind of messages you can read from it, including "we're the
only ones allowed to play the public message game, and we're going to
slap you hard if you try."
Tim Serpas
>>But I don't know anyone who is doing the same job
>>but making less money.
>
>Microsoft recently announced that all of its Bay Area employees will have
In Austin there's "mandatory unpaid vacation" at Dell, AMD,
and Motorola. Essentially a pay cut.
Wretch
pay cut
to zero
Cappy Morgan
I believe this is season eight or nine. I lost count from the point where I
felt they should have ended it.
Chad
>Interestingly enough, I'd have dropped the title if they switched creative
>teams.
Without even knowing who the new writer and artist would be? Why would
you do that? It's not like CM was a PAD creation and only he should
write it or Crisscross should draw him.
-Chad
John C. Baker
<btodd...@recorder.ca> wrote:
> PS -- Anyone know why Marvel charges more than the exchange rate right now
> for some titles in Canada?
The price difference was about the same as the exchange rate about 18
months ago, but now that the Canadian dollar is worth about 62 US cents,
it doesn't match well. I guess they figured they could squeeze a couple
more cents out of the folks in Charlottetown and avoid the inconvenience
of changing the cover if they didn't change the price.
Chad
>Whether it makes sense or not, retailers do have an established
>track record of cutting back orders on books which are nearing
>cancellation.
Sure they do... because fans stop buying those last few issues - which
is what I'm trying to comprehend. [g] I find it amusing that we are
struggling with this. I guess nobody here is that kind of buyer. :-)
-Chad
Paul O'Brien
<losti...@mmcable.com> writes
>
>I think they could do a group promotion of all the great books "that you are
>not reading". That would be justifiable and make excellent business sense.
As Quesada points out, the business sense of promoting low-selling
titles is questionable, because historically they seem to get better
returns on advertising higher-selling titles featuring better known
characters.
This whole line of argument - that Marvel ought to be trying to save
Captain Marvel on business grounds - proceeds on the debatable
assumption that they couldn't get a better return for their money by
just cancelling the damn thing and devoting their resources to making
something completely different instead.
Paul O'Brien
<Der...@t-online.de> writes
>
>I'm not debating that, but I don't think it's wise of the editor in chief
>to publicly fire such probably true criticisms at the writer of a
>struggling book he happens to be publishing.
Generally I would agree, but I think Marvel were perfectly entitled to
respond to a public attack on their policy, bearing in mind that they
did, after all, have some entirely valid and rational points to make
in response.
Marc-Oliver Frisch
Ken Arromdee wrote:
> In article <3C9486B8...@t-online.de>,
> Marc-Oliver Frisch <Der...@t-online.de> wrote:
> >I'm not debating that, but I don't think it's wise of the editor in chief
> >to publicly fire such probably true criticisms at the writer of a
> >struggling book he happens to be publishing.
>
> But it only happened after the writer fired off a lot of criticism of the
> company in public.
Yes, and instead of taking the ball and using the stunt to whip up something
positive for the company -- something Joe and Jemas are quite good at when THEY
start this sort of thing -- Quesada seems more intent on further damaging the
book and turning the thing into a mud fight.
David's stunt could have been a real opportunity, but Joe apparently didn't get
that.
--Marc