John Constantine -- Irish?
Rich Handley
I've been reading through the entire Hellblazer saga, and I'm curious
about something someone posted here a while back. Someone (I forget
who) had complained that Garth Ennis had made Constantine and
Irishman. However, I've just finished the Ennis run, and I've seen no
indication that he's Irish. Sure, he's been to Ireland and has
friends/lovers there, but I don't believe it's been said (at least,
not up to issue 83) that he's Irish. Can someone please fill me in on
this? Thanks!
Sincerely,
Rich Handley (Card...@NO-SPAMunix.asb.com)
Gareth C Jones
Rich Handley <CardSaf...@unix.asb.com> wrote in message
news:7lIk4.754$D33....@iad-read.news.verio.net...
> Hi,
>
> I've been reading through the entire Hellblazer saga, and I'm curious
> about something someone posted here a while back. Someone (I forget
> who) had complained that Garth Ennis had made Constantine and
> Irishman. However, I've just finished the Ennis run, and I've seen no
> indication that he's Irish. Sure, he's been to Ireland and has
> friends/lovers there, but I don't believe it's been said (at least,
> not up to issue 83) that he's Irish. Can someone please fill me in on
> this? Thanks!
I don't think it was meant literally Rich. They were just saying that he
suddenly became a Guinness drinker hanging around Irish pubs half the time.
I think the inference was that his character had become more Irish in
character, so to speak, rather than a 'I was born in Munster' revelation.
I don't particularly agree with that view, especially as someone who lived
in Liverpool and met more Irishmen than I did when visiting Dublin (which
was full of Yanks and Japanese)!
--
Cheers Drive!
Gareth
Rich Handley
>I don't think it was meant literally Rich. They were just saying that he
>suddenly became a Guinness drinker hanging around Irish pubs half the time.
>I think the inference was that his character had become more Irish in
>character, so to speak, rather than a 'I was born in Munster' revelation.
Thanks, Gareth -- I suspected as much, but I wanted to be sure I
hadn't missed something since I'm new to the Hellblazer craze.
For the record, I LOVE Ennis' take on the character, though the
profanity is just too much. Not that I have a problem with profanity
in and of itself -- lest I be labeled a prude -- but it doesn't fit
the character as created by Moore and fleshed out by Delano. Still, I
have to admit I enjoy Ennis' work much more than Delano's, which I
like by find a bit wandering at times. In fact, I just read "The
Horrorist" and didn't enjoy it at all, having just read 40 Ennis
issues prior. I'm about to start the Eddie Campbell issues, then it's
on to Paul Jenkins and Warren Ellis. I have resisted reading the last
three issues because I want to know what happened before the current
stories -- but resistance is quickly proving futile. :)
Sincerely,
Rich Handley (Card...@NO-SPAMunix.asb.com)
Jeremy Lee Henderson
>
>I've been reading through the entire Hellblazer saga, and I'm curious
>about something someone posted here a while back. Someone (I forget
>who) had complained that Garth Ennis had made Constantine and
>Irishman. However, I've just finished the Ennis run, and I've seen no
>indication that he's Irish. Sure, he's been to Ireland and has
>friends/lovers there, but I don't believe it's been said (at least,
>not up to issue 83) that he's Irish. Can someone please fill me in on
>this? Thanks!
>
I don't recall anything in Ennis' run to contradict that.
___________________________
"If it's LOVE, dying's one of the EASIER things you'll do
for it! If it's LOVE, you'll crawl naked across a
Wal-Mart parking lot covered with broken Coke
bottles! If it's LOVE, you'll starve yourself for a
month and break the fast with a washtub full of
horseshit! If it's LOVE, you'll do a jig on a bed of
nails while juggling hand grenades! If it's LOVE,
you'll run a razor across your arm and write poetry
with the blood! If it's LOVE, you'll -- "
He had stopped upon realizing that everyone else in
the bar was staring at him.
-from Lunatics, by Bradley Denton
Dan Griffiths
>about something someone posted here a while back. Someone (I forget
>who) had complained that Garth Ennis had made Constantine and
>Irishman. However, I've just finished the Ennis run, and I've seen no
>indication that he's Irish.
I feel perhaps it may have been a metaphor, that Ennis turned Constantine
into one of the happy-go-lucky Oirish layabouts which infect early Ennis. Of
course, given that he's Liverpudlian, it's more than possible that he could
have some Irish descent...
Adrian Brown
CardSaf...@unix.asb.com (Rich Handley) writes:
>"Gareth C Jones" <garj...@spamlessglobalnet.co.uk> wrote:
>>I don't think it was meant literally Rich. They were just saying that he
>>suddenly became a Guinness drinker hanging around Irish pubs half the time.
>>I think the inference was that his character had become more Irish in
>>character, so to speak, rather than a 'I was born in Munster' revelation.
>
>Thanks, Gareth -- I suspected as much, but I wanted to be sure I
>hadn't missed something since I'm new to the Hellblazer craze.
>
Yes. I think that was me (probably among others).
Garth Ennis made his JC "irish" just as Warren Ellis made him a Londoner
(and Brian Azzarello is about to make him Dick Van Dyke, oh wait a minute, was
that was Paul Jenkins' "I just shagged a lesbian" ?)
****************************************
Comics 2000 Festival,
Bristol, April 22 & 23 2000AD
http://www.sitsvac.org/comics2
****************************************
http://members.delphi.com/adeheathen < and this is me
John McMahon
> (and Brian Azzarello is about to make him Dick Van Dyke, oh wait a
> minute, was that was Paul Jenkins' "I just shagged a lesbian" ?)
Garth Ennis, actually.
J.
--
"From my current vantage point; atop the roof of this towering
monstrosity from which I ply my trade as Dublin's last resident
howling lunatic; it would appear as if I have been overly
cautious....."
http://www.insanerantings.com
macbe...@my-deja.com
> Hi,
>
> I've been reading through the entire Hellblazer saga, and I'm curious
> about something someone posted here a while back. Someone
Hi,
> (I forget who)
I think it was me. Looks like the sort of rubbish I type... :-)
> had complained
Aw, no. Just mentioned, surely...
> that Garth Ennis had made Constantine and
> Irishman. However, I've just finished the Ennis run, and I've seen no
> indication that he's Irish. Sure, he's been to Ireland and has
> friends/lovers there, but I don't believe it's been said (at least,
> not up to issue 83) that he's Irish. Can someone please fill me in on
> this?
Certainly not, but I can witter on the subject for a short while if you
likes...
Yeah, Constantine is supposed to be English - in fact, taking together
all the threads of JC biography in the various JC-featuring comics, he
could well be directly related to the English aristocracy. In FACT,
Constantine is a Romanised version of a Greek name - he could be a
descendent of Constantine the Great, who was one of the most apalling
despots in human history and was allegedly a practioner of the black
arts himself. (I think it was him who had a along affair with his own
mother).
Constantine's 'biography' is actually quite interesting, as comic
characters go, with a long gap between the late 60s (when he appeared in
that mini-series by Peter Hogan - Love Street, that's it) and when he
'first' appeared, in 1983/4, in Swamp Thing no.26 or 40-something,
depending whom you believe (JC's time is 'real time', I think. He's
currently aged 46*; his 46th birthday was last month, in fact, which
went completely unannounced due to Mr Ellis leaving the party early -
unless it was also mentioned in Totems, I forget.)
*that is if you count down from Ennis's 'birthday issue'.
As for him being 'Irish': yeah, Ennis made him *seem* more Oirish - but
he does that to all his characters. Likewise, Ellis made him overly,
almost violently, cynical; whossisname, the guy who took the title
through no.100 (I'm terrible with names), PAUL JENKINS, fuckinell, made
him overly introspective - although in many ways not as much as Jamie
Delano, and so on.
The guy writing it at the moment (needless to say I can't remember HIS
name either, I'll call him Azzzarro) is making a pretty damn good job of
it, IMO.
There was a bit of natter in (UK comics rag) Comics International about
Azzzarro being the 'first non-British Hellblazer writer' and questioned
whether he'd - especially in light of the sometimes wince-making
mistakes in Books of Magic over the years - be able to get the English
idion for JC right.
Bollocks, in fact. There have been no less than nineteen (that's 19)
John Constantine writers. In rough chronological order they are: Alan
Moore (who invented him), Rick Veitch, Jamie Delano (who established his
character), Neil Gaiman, Doug Wheeler, Grant Morrison, Dean Motter, Dick
Foreman, Garth Ennis (who made him popular), Nancy Collins, John Smith,
Eddie Campbell, Paul Jenkins (who's artist, Sean Phillips, gave him what
will probably be his most enduring image), Mark Millar, Peter Hogan,
Warren Ellis, Tom Peyer, Darko Macan (sp?) and, er, Brian(?) Azzzarro.
Of whom, four are American, one is Canadian, at least two are Scottish
(and one of them is now Australian), one is Northern Irish, one is
(presumably) Serbian-American and one comes from wherever it is Warren
Ellis comes from. The rest are English, so, true (CI), the character is
pretty much established as roughly lower-middle class English, and
Azzzarro doesn't want to make the kind of clangers that - let's say that
have appeared before in the odd Vertigo title, but he's actually the
fourth, fifth or sixth non-British JC writer.
Anyway, to get back to Azzzarro in particular: going by his first issue
(pity about the lost masthead, btw) I think he gets JC's 'voice' pretty
much dead on. His dialogue does occasionally switch from working-class
South London to middle class Home Counties English but then I think the
plot demanded it (the other cons were impressed by his 'class' or
somesuch - Azzarro is definitely a clever writer). He could've gone
further with the Saaf Londonisms (my son): Constantine should be saying
'me' instead of 'my', for one small instance, but on the whole I'd say
the boy done good. And, suprise suprise, I didn't expect it but Richard
Corben's art work's a treat. Mind you the plot itself looks a little
hackneyed so far...
One or two other things: As has been said, Constantine actually comes
from Liverpool. Although Love Street and Garth Ennis's Special issue
confuse the continuity, he left for London aged either 14 or 16. He
should therefore have a scouse accent - in which case NONE of the
writers have got it right. Garth Ennis is possibly the nearest, given
the Irish influence in the 'Pool (culturally a four way split between
the Southern Irish, Northern Welsh, North-Western English and the Rest
Of The World), but none of them have had JC saying 'You askin'?' or
calling himself a scallie yet, let alone given him a bubble perm,
moustache and shell suit (as of course, all scousers wear).
[More to the point, which football team does he support? Difficult one,
that. Obviously, he must support SOMEONE or he wouldn't be any sort of
British. He's presumably not a Catholic, so it'd probably be Liverpool
FC rather than Everton, but in one issue Paul Jenkins had him going to a
Palace match: highly unlikely, to say the least (and in which league
exactly does Crystal Palace play Brighton?). Not only that but he
implies JC is an Arsenal fan. Er, sorry Paul. I don't think so. A
scouser supporting the arseholes is a bit like the Pope sneaking off to
Baptist prayer meetings: it just ain't gonna happen. Bit of wishful
thinking on Mr Jenkins' part maybe.]
Also: Darko Macan's story in the two previous issues hasn't been
mentioned - I thought it worked very well. I'd like to see him come back
- maybe a future Sandman Presents?
Like I said, pity about losing the old Hellblazer masthead. The new one
looks too impersonal and 'hi-tech-ish'.
And finally: isn't it about time Vertigo announced the writer who will
be following Azzzarreo by now? I think - unless my maths is all wrong -
this mini-series will end on No.150: not a bad place to end a
long-running series. Could it be that Vertigo are about topull the plug
on JC? I think we should be told...
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
morgan thomas
<macbe...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:87i5c4$jdj$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Issue 26? That's the Demopn storyline, right? Where does he appear in there?
Ojerasmus
>[More to the point, which football team does he support? Difficult one,
>that. Obviously, he must support SOMEONE or he wouldn't be any sort of
>British. He's presumably not a Catholic, so it'd probably be Liverpool
>FC rather than Everton,
IIRC Liverpool were the team of the irish catholics in the city.
Everton was formed as an offshoot of a methodist church and when it was
decided toi form a second team in the city Liverpool FC's first squad was
recruited from Glasgow catholics by an Liverpudlian irish businessmen. Links
with both Glasgow Celtic and the Irish republic continue to this day.
Of course lots of non-catholics support Liverpool as well and I've never really
pictured JC as much of a football fan at all.
Owen Erasmus
Adrian Brown
(Ojerasmus) writes:
John may not be much of a fan, but wasn't he at Selhurst Park for the Palace v
Brighton riot ?
Also, he handled those hooligans very nicely.
I'd say he was originally intended to be a Northampton fan (Moore/Delano), then
became a Man Utd fan (Ennis), Celtic fan (Campbell), later a Liverpool fan who
just happened to go to a Palace game (Jenkins), and I would imagine that during
the unrelenting horror of Warren Ellis's run, he was portrayed as a Birmingham
City fan.
And now of course, he boosts for the New York Dolphins.
Ojerasmus
>John may not be much of a fan, but wasn't he at Selhurst Park for the Palace
>v
>Brighton riot ?
>Also, he handled those hooligans very nicely.
>
The family man story had him sharing a coach north with some Liverpudlian fans.
I can't remember which team they supported but he shared some banter with them.
Owen Erasmus
macbe...@my-deja.com
Gor blimey, where you been, lad? He was supposedly hanging about in the
background of one frame, just after the Demon trashes the town... as
covered in the Swamp Thing lettercols for about a million issues
afterwards.
Incidentally, there have been 21, not 19, Constantine writers. I left
out Peter Milligan (because JC appeared in Shade) and Gary Ushaw
(because he featured fairly heavily in Mobfire). Both limeys.
Magnus Dreyer
Constantine was also a part of Crisis, so you should include Marv Wolfman.
Magnus Dreyer
morgan thomas
<macbe...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:87n8rd$3ct$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <r54n4.134$Cy4.4...@news.bctel.net>,
> "morgan thomas" <morgan...@bc.sympatico.ca> wrote:
> >
> > <macbe...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> > news:87i5c4$jdj$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > > (Rich Handley) wrote:
> > >
>
> > Issue 26? That's the Demopn storyline, right? Where does he appear in
> there?
> >
> >
> Gor blimey, where you been, lad? He was supposedly hanging about in the
> background of one frame, just after the Demon trashes the town... as
> covered in the Swamp Thing lettercols for about a million issues
> afterwards.
I've jsut gotten into Swamp Thing, so I've only read the Essential Vertigo
reprints.
macbeth
Ojerasmus wrote:
> >
> >[More to the point, which football team does he support? Difficult one,
> >that. Obviously, he must support SOMEONE or he wouldn't be any sort of
> >British. He's presumably not a Catholic, so it'd probably be Liverpool
> >FC rather than Everton,
>
> IIRC Liverpool were the team of the irish catholics in the city.
You're probably right, I was going by my own family's experience rather than the
general rule (although it's obviously all fucking meaningless anyway). Everton are
usually associated with the poorer part of town, which tends to be associated with
the Catholic community etc. etc. (although since the two cathedrals face each
other about a hundred yards apart the 'religious' split is especially meaningless
in 'pool.
Way off topic now but I hope Anfield never gets rebuilt or moved - how many big
club grounds are built right smack in the middle of the town like that? I know the
new Brighton (where I now live) ground won't be.
>
>
> Everton was formed as an offshoot of a methodist church and when it was
> decided toi form a second team in the city Liverpool FC's first squad was
> recruited from Glasgow catholics by an Liverpudlian irish businessmen. Links
> with both Glasgow Celtic and the Irish republic continue to this day.
>
> Of course lots of non-catholics support Liverpool as well and I've never really
> pictured JC as much of a football fan at all.
Me neither but of course that has nothing to do with supporting a football team
now, does it?
macbeth
morgan thomas wrote:
>
> >
> > > Issue 26? That's the Demopn storyline, right? Where does he appear in
> > there?
> > >
> > >
> > Gor blimey, where you been, lad? He was supposedly hanging about in the
> > background of one frame, just after the Demon trashes the town... as
> > covered in the Swamp Thing lettercols for about a million issues
> > afterwards.
>
> I've jsut gotten into Swamp Thing, so I've only read the Essential Vertigo
> reprints.
Um... yeah, they got as far as no.26. Moore started on no.20 and the EssVert
reprints started from no.21 (so EV Swamp Thing no.6 is the old no.26). JC
appears about half way through in one panel as an onlooker. After he appeared
'properly' at the beginning of the American Gothic storyline (what was that?
No.37?) some readers said they'd seen him earlier etc. etc. - and it was
confirmed by someone or other that it was supposed toi be JC (ie it was a
preliminary sketch based on a pic of world famous tedious old git Sting -
although I maintain that AMoore would've been subliminaly influenced in his
invention by a certain early 80s UK TV PI series, co-written by Terry
Venables who used to manage England... ooops! Back to football again...)
Confirmed again by Pissed As A Newt Mute on this very NG a while back (we've
had this conversation here a million times already btw), who's probably
lurking around somewhere...
morgan thomas
macbeth <mac...@glenmist.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:38A09E29...@glenmist.fsnet.co.uk...
>
>
> morgan thomas wrote:
>
> >
> > >
> > > > Issue 26? That's the Demopn storyline, right? Where does he appear
in
> > > there?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Gor blimey, where you been, lad? He was supposedly hanging about in
the
> > > background of one frame, just after the Demon trashes the town... as
> > > covered in the Swamp Thing lettercols for about a million issues
> > > afterwards.
> >
> > I've jsut gotten into Swamp Thing, so I've only read the Essential
Vertigo
> > reprints.
>
> Um... yeah, they got as far as no.26. Moore started on no.20 and the
EssVert
> reprints started from no.21 (so EV Swamp Thing no.6 is the old no.26).
Yes, I knew that. The reason I mentioned that was to explain why I didn't
know the contents of the letter columns (witch were not re printed in the
reprints.)
Sweaty Mute
>> I've jsut gotten into Swamp Thing, so I've only read the Essential Vertigo
>> reprints.
>Um... yeah, they got as far as no.26. Moore started on no.20 and the EssVert
>reprints started from no.21 (so EV Swamp Thing no.6 is the old no.26). JC
>appears about half way through in one panel as an onlooker. After he appeared
>'properly' at the beginning of the American Gothic storyline (what was that?
>No.37?) some readers said they'd seen him earlier etc. etc. - and it was
>confirmed by someone or other that it was supposed toi be JC (ie it was a
>preliminary sketch based on a pic of world famous tedious old git Sting -
>although I maintain that AMoore would've been subliminaly influenced in his
>invention by a certain early 80s UK TV PI series, co-written by Terry
>Venables who used to manage England... ooops! Back to football again...)
>Confirmed again by Pissed As A Newt Mute on this very NG a while back (we've
>had this conversation here a million times already btw), who's probably
>lurking around somewhere...
Yeah. Totleben and Bissette drew him watching in a panel or two cos
they liked Sting (in the film version of Dennis Potter's Brimstone and
Treacle, I think), told Moore that this bloke was going to keep
popping up in the background, and so Al said "Let's make him a real
character then, eh?" and they said "Sorted", because Garth Ennis was
writing their dialogue on coke.
For some more details, including hints at financial niceties and
such, here's a recent thread from Veitch's site Comicon.com where Rick
and Steve and the lamented Stuart Moore blathered at each other and
the audience about all this:
http://207.69.158.95/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001188.html
I'm sure I'll still have to type about all this again in a few
months though... HEY!!! ATTENTION CARL HENDERSON!!! FAQ MATERIAL OVER
HERE!!! Or maybe not.
-Mute.
______________________
"The term Graphic Novel is one of those things, like the sales receipt for a shirt, which
you throw out and then realize you're going to need." -Eddie Campbell
-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----
Rich Handley
we can include Kevin Brodbin.
Danny Sichel <eds...@umoncton.ca> wrote:
>Magnus Dreyer wrote:
>>> Incidentally, there have been 21, not 19, Constantine writers. I left
>>> out Peter Milligan (because JC appeared in Shade) and Gary Ushaw
>>> (because he featured fairly heavily in Mobfire). Both limeys.
>> Constantine was also a part of Crisis, so you should include Marv Wolfman.
>Well, hey, he also appeared in _Challengers of the Unknown_, so you
>should include Steven Grant.
>--
>_The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathan Hoag: Slave Girl of Gor_, by
>Robert Heinlein and John Norman
Sincerely,
Rich Handley (Card...@NO-SPAMunix.asb.com)