Alan Moore's Twilight: A Proposal update
Grant Gordils
that sexy Batman story.
Grant G.
Richard Johnston
I received an email today from Jay Kogan, DC Comics Director of Legal
Affairs just before I was going to get in contact with her.(dcoj...@aol.com)
Full of phrases like "violate our rights" and "without limitation" and "we
ask you to confirm".
Apparently DC not only claim ownership of the characters but also of the
proposal.
Looks like we'll have to pull this from our schedules guys. I've replied
asking if there is any way we could cooperate on this, but after e-mail with
friendly Patti Jeres, I'm not holding my breath.
Richard Johnston
Advertising copywriter for Buckfield Lord and Co.
Creator and Publisher of Dirtbag and X-Flies as Twist and Shout Comics
Networks Columnist for Comics International, and writer for Indy.
Todd VerBeek, GWM
>Sigh.
>
>I received an email today from Jay Kogan, DC Comics Director of Legal
>Affairs just before I was going to get in contact with her.(dcoj...@aol.com)
>
>Full of phrases like "violate our rights" and "without limitation" and "we
>ask you to confirm".
>
>Apparently DC not only claim ownership of the characters but also of the
>proposal.
That's a distinct possibility. I think this is what it means when the fine
print in a contest says, "All submissions become property of _________."
But I'd check with Moore to find out whether this was actually among the terms
for his proposal(s) to DC. If not, you might still be able to publish it,
using substitutes for DC's trademarked characters (e.g. Hyperman, Ratman,
Jack Constable, the Spook, etc.)
I don't want to condone it, but blustering like this is pretty much what
their legal department is "supposed to do" when you're doing something DC
would rather you didn't do. They don't need a legal leg to stand on to make
threatening noises. Unfortunately, they may not need one to tie you up in
court, either.
Cheers, Todd
"When they finally put you in the ground,
I'll stand on your grave and tramp the dirt down."
- Elvis Costello, on (former) British P.M. Margaret Thatcher
The Golden Elmo
> Apparently DC not only claim ownership of the characters but also of the
> proposal.
Ask Alan: Did DC pay for the proposal? If they did, they own it. If they
did not, Alan owns it and he can do whatever the hell he wants with it
(so long as he does not violate DC trademarks, e.g. by putting them on the
cover).
[I swear to you, the sig is random. Honest!]
--
Usenet Rule #2 (John Gilmore): "The Net interprets censorship as damage and
routes around it."
elmo (mor...@physics.rice.edu,mor...@fnal.fnal.gov)
Warren Ellis
trademarked characters from the piece, then I don't see how they
can make such an approach to you. Find out if Alan invoiced.
The invoice carries the work-made-for-hire agreement on the back.
If he didn't sign it, you should be free and clear.
--
~ send me a great deal of money immediately ~
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Steven Grant
>Ask Alan: Did DC pay for the proposal? If they did, they own it. If they
>did not, Alan owns it and he can do whatever the hell he wants with it
>(so long as he does not violate DC trademarks, e.g. by putting them on the
>cover).
That's not exactly true. Simply using the characters in the story
without DC's permission and marketing the result, whether you overtly
mention the characters in the marketing (say, on the cover) or not, is
a violation of DC trademarks. DC cannot stop Alan from using the
story elsewhere, but they can stop the unauthorized use of their
characters.
Steven Grant
Writer: DC, Marvel, Dark Horse, Image, Tekno, etc.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/SDGrant
The Golden Elmo
> Rich, if money didn't change hands, and you've removed the
> trademarked characters from the piece, then I don't see how they
> can make such an approach to you.
Even better, Rich doesn't have to remove the trademarked characters at all.
If my understanding of trademark is correct, it doesn't apply to contents,
only to stuff like covers/packaging and advertisements that might get
people to buy the product. A few years ago, Eternity published public
domain Mickey Mouse material in The Uncensored Mouse; all they had to do
was not put the Mickey Mouse name or distincitive appearance on the cover
and they were home free. (They did get nailed for accidentally using
non-public domain material in the second issue, though.)
--
"Love is the delightful interval between meeting a beautiful girl and
discovering she looks like a haddock."--John Barrymore
elmo (mor...@physics.rice.edu,mor...@fnal.fnal.gov)
The Golden Elmo
> mor...@fnalv.fnal.gov (The Golden Elmo) wrote:
>>Ask Alan: Did DC pay for the proposal? If they did, they own it. If they
>>did not, Alan owns it and he can do whatever the hell he wants with it
>>(so long as he does not violate DC trademarks, e.g. by putting them on the
>>cover).
>
> That's not exactly true. Simply using the characters in the story
> without DC's permission and marketing the result, whether you overtly
> mention the characters in the marketing (say, on the cover) or not, is
> a violation of DC trademarks.
Disclaimer: I'm not an intellectual property lawyer. (But I have read
the misc.legal copyright FAQ!)
Disney sued Eternity over Eternity's use of Disney's characters in the
Uncensored Mouse. The Mick did not appear on the cover of the book, only
the interior. No decision was reached about whether the contents were a
violation of Disney's trademark because Eternity capitulated on a different
point of law. The fact that the question of "interior trademark" was
considered by the court suggests that it's not an established point of law.
A point that's worth repeating is that it saves DC and Disney a lot of
worry and avoids a possible negative court decision if they can *scare off*
anyone who might be acting against their interests *even if the act is
legal*. If Rich folds without a fight, DC wins having risked nothing more
than a letter.
Another point in Rich's favor is that both he and Alan are British
citizens, and British law assigns more rights to the creator than the US
does even in the British equivalent of a "work-for-hire" situation.
I would be delighted to be corrected on this matter.
--
"In this issue Vrandbox announces to the Combatroid Team that the evil Magoom
has stolen the Aludionic Energy Crystal from the Sphere of Power. The
Combatroids are overcome with indignation. Vrandbox and Zandbox lead an
attacking force to recover the Energy Crystal but are captured by Magoom.
Meanwhile Bhandbox goes on a perilous journey to consult the all-knowing
Professor Fluff on the planet Fluffzog."--Col. G.L. Sicherman
elmo (mor...@physics.rice.edu,mor...@fnal.fnal.gov)
Eschel Abraham Hamel
or paraphrase its intent?
Thanks,
Eschel
--
Eschel Hamel | Major: Psychology
http://grove.ufl.edu/~lazarus | Future: Hopefully a good I/O Psych pgm
laz...@grove.ufl.edu | Awaiting: my T.P. books from Future Fantasy
alba...@ufcc.ufl.edu | U2: "You don't know what you're doing.
eha...@mail.vaxu.org | Babe, it must be art!"
Eschel Abraham Hamel
: On 17 Dec 1995 22:31:12 GMT, laz...@grove.ufl.edu (Eschel Abraham: Hamel) wrote:
: >I missed the initial proposal. Would someone be so kind as to repost it
: >or paraphrase its intent?
: It's way too long to post. It's available on-line, though, at
: http://www.digimark.net/wraith/Comics/twilight.html
: But there's also an ftp site you can download it from, which you
: probably want to do since it's about 40 pages long.
I'm sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I've read Moore's proposal for
Twilight and though it was incredible. I was refering to whatever Rich
Johnston was hoping to do with it.
Michael R. Grabois
Hamel) wrote:
>I missed the initial proposal. Would someone be so kind as to repost it
>or paraphrase its intent?
It's way too long to post. It's available on-line, though, at
http://www.digimark.net/wraith/Comics/twilight.html
But there's also an ftp site you can download it from, which you
probably want to do since it's about 40 pages long.
Michael R. Grabois | http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mgrabois
Houston, TX | or...@ix.netcom.com CI$: 74737,2600
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Grant Gordils
know if they mean actually do the whole thing or just the proposal itself. DC
got wind of it and said that they couldn't because the proposal was owned by
DC. Now, if that means just the characters or the whole story, I don't know.
I don't think it was said if the proposal itself is owned by Moore or DC.
Grant G.
Steven Chaput
: I think it was Twist & Shout Comics. They were going to publish it. I don't
I have to wonder how this would differ from when Peter David first ran
the plot of THE LAST AVENGERS STORY in CBG. SInce Marvel had, at that
time, no intention of publishing it they seemed to have no problem with
its publication in prose form.
Personally, having read the TWILIGHT proposal a couple of years ago, I
have to think that perhaps DC's biggest fear is that some folks will come
to recognize that certain events in the plot will remind them of things
that happened in various mini-series and one-shots by other writers at DC
after the proposal was turned down. I don't want to say that lesser
writers "ripped off" Moore, but it will give folks pause to see how close
things come.
Steve
--
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