Erik Larsen on AQUAMAN
Aaron Veenstra
Newsarama Daily is reporting that Erik Larsen, of SAVAGE DRAGON fame, will
be the new writer on AQUAMAN as of #50, following the DC ONE MILLION
crossover-event-stupid-thing. Dan Abnett and Andy Lanning will write the
four issues between Peter David's departure and Larsen's arrival.
This is somewhat interesting, as Larsen has been cited as a prospective
writer to take over for PAD on INCREDIBLE HULK. It's also personally
annoying, since I don't want to drop the title and ease my wallet anymore.
:)
Larsen apparently plans to introduce some not-so-normal looking
characters, return Atlantis to the ocean's floor, bring back Mera and
introduce a new character (and set of lackeys) called Noble.
Aaron
Thesippel
>Newsarama Daily is reporting that Erik Larsen, of SAVAGE DRAGON fame, will
>be the new writer on AQUAMAN as of #50, following the DC ONE MILLION
>crossover-event-stupid-thing.
Well, that saves me $1.95 every month. Amazing how this once-defiant Image
"artists" are crawling back to Marvel and DC lately. I wonder if Erik is going
to give the readers 100% on Aquaman, or will he be "holding back" again?
Daniel Ben-Zvi
On Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:29:10 -0500, asve...@mtu.edu (Aaron Veenstra)
wrote:
>Newsarama Daily is reporting that Erik Larsen, of SAVAGE DRAGON fame, will
>be the new writer on AQUAMAN as of #50, following the DC ONE MILLION
>crossover-event-stupid-thing. Dan Abnett and Andy Lanning will write the
>four issues between Peter David's departure and Larsen's arrival.
And let me just give the news of Larsen taking over Aquaman the
reaction I think it deserves:
EEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Daniel Ben-Zvi
Dwight Williams
All I can say is:
Don't give me nightmares, Newsarama. Larsen on _Aquaman_ *will* do just that.
--
Dwight Williams(ad...@freenet.carleton.ca) -- Orleans, Ontario, Canada
Richard D. Bergstresser Jr.
Default wrote:
>
> In article <6e74cm$5...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>, ad...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA says...
> >
> >
> >All I can say is:
> >
> >Don't give me nightmares, Newsarama. Larsen on _Aquaman_ *will* do just that.
>
Mein Gott, Mann! I still can't figure out how you can ever make informed
decisions
with that attitude!
"Must like everything. Until after I've done it. Me am Psuedo-Bizarro!"
--
Yes, I've finally resorted to a Spam block.
To respond, remove the letters BLOCK from my address.
Sorry for the inconvenience.
Rich.
Aaron S. Veenstra
In article <19980312015...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, lot...@aol.com
(Lots42) wrote:
> Hello, people, ever hear of the concept of 'Rumors'???
Yes. Yes, we have.
> There are _far_ too many people taking unsubstantiated gossip at face value.
True, though I don't know what that has to do with anything. This
"gossip" came from the always-reliable Newsarama, based on comments from
Erik Larsen himself and Kevin Dooley, the editor of AQUAMAN.
Aaron
--
_ _ _
/ \ \ \ / / | asve...@mtu.edu
/ 0 \ aron \ \/ / eenstra | http://www.portup.com/~etchouse/
/_/ \_\ \__/ | graphic, web, multimedia design
Default
In article <6e74cm$5...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>, ad...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA says...
>
>
>All I can say is:
>
>Don't give me nightmares, Newsarama. Larsen on _Aquaman_ *will* do just that.
I like how you make these charges without having read the fucking thing.
>--
Lots42
Hello, people, ever hear of the concept of 'Rumors'???
There are _far_ too many people taking unsubstantiated gossip at face value.
For Pete's sakes. folks, Eric's got enough trouble going on with SAVAGE DRAGON!
I should know, I buy the damn thing religously.
________________________________________________________________
"Mastercard, I'm bored. The friendly natives will entertain me."
-- Frank Castle
Dwight Williams
Default (JoeB...@ucla.edu) writes:
> In article <6e74cm$5...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>, ad...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA says...
>>
>>All I can say is:
>>Don't give me nightmares, Newsarama. Larsen on _Aquaman_ *will* do just that.
>
> I like how you make these charges without having read the fucking thing.
Spoken like someone who doesn't know that I've *read* his _Savage Dragon_.
And lost interest for a number of reasons ages back.
ShutUpRob
Does anybody besides me see the irony in hiring Name
Withheld to follow Peter David?
-- Rob Jensen
=========================================
Hey, you! Yeah, YOU! Get off USENET right this instant
and go see TITANIC! Go on -- go, go, go! It's great stuff!
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
Lots42 (lot...@aol.com) wrote:
: Hello, people, ever hear of the concept of 'Rumors'???
: There are _far_ too many people taking unsubstantiated gossip at face value.
It's quite substantiated. Erik Larsen himself has posted about the book
on the DC Online message boards.
- Elayne
--
What I mean by deviant: completely lacking in the social skills and
knowledge possessed by most of the rest of humanity... Most of us are
perfectly normal most of the time. We only become jerks and morons on
Usenet, like other decent people. -- Andrew C. Lannen
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
ShutUpRob (shut...@aol.com) wrote:
: Does anybody besides me see the irony in hiring Name
: Withheld to follow Peter David?
Um, I think *everyone* sees the irony, Rob. :)
andrew (MELBOURNE)
ShutUpRob (shut...@aol.com) wrote:
: Does anybody besides me see the irony in hiring Name
: Withheld to follow Peter David?
Hmm. I don't think it's ironic, really. Now, it *would* be ironic if
Larsen had taken over *Hulk* and written him exactly like PAD does. Or
with him taking over Aquaman as writer if it was PAD's first book as a
writer-artist.
Hey, I've disocovered a new game. It's called Irony-orama. Take a piece
of news from Doran's latest column and twist it till it becomes ironic.
Some are easier than others...
PAD leaves Aquaman cause he's having trouble with editors and is sick of
crossovers, so he goes on to Young Justice, where he'll constantly have to
coordinate with at least three other books.
Others you have to play with...
It would be ironic if TPTB at DC gave Ostrander the Martian Manhunter
title over Templeton, because after reading Ostrander's Spectre and
Templeton's Manhunter Annual they decided that they didn't really *like*
J'onn J'onzz and that they wanted a writer who had *less* of a handle on
existing characters.
--
Andrew Melbourne, melb...@sas.upenn.edu, http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~melbourn
-->>THEY DON'T HAVE SPORKS IN LONDON, BUT THEY *DO* HAVE KNORKS!<<--
"Hmm. This feels like a Ron Marz tries to go indy with art by Tom
Grummet, inked by Bill Scienkevitz sort of life." -- me
Cannon
ShutUpRob didst say unto the masses...
> Does anybody besides me see the irony in hiring Name
> Withheld to follow Peter David?
Yes. And it is even more interesting, to me, that Kevin Dooley is the
AQUAMAN editor.
How quickly will they scrap everything David has done so far?
Jim Cannon
x8...@music.stlawu.edu
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
The Sun
Richard D. Bergstresser Jr. wrote:
> Default wrote:
> > >Don't give me nightmares, Newsarama. Larsen on _Aquaman_ *will* do just that.
> > I like how you make these charges without having read the fucking thing.
>
> Mein Gott, Mann! I still can't figure out how you can ever make informed
> decisions with that attitude!
I've never read anything by Erik Larsen. I loved Peter David's Aquaman, and I have a
tendency to follow writers rather than titles or characters. Is Larsen worth checking
out, in the opinion of those who have read his work?
Matthew Thompson
Dwight Williams
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput (fire...@panix.com) writes:
> ShutUpRob (shut...@aol.com) wrote:
> : Does anybody besides me see the irony in hiring Name
> : Withheld to follow Peter David?
>
> Um, I think *everyone* sees the irony, Rob. :)
No damn kidding, Elayne. :(
Richard D. Bergstresser Jr.
I almost liked Dragon. I really tried to. He had lots of really cool
concepts in it but I don't think most of us would qualify as the target
audience. I don't think he's anywhere near as bad as comments here make
him sound.
His stuff's fun. But it's not groundbreaking.
ShutUpRob
In article <6e9893$e...@panix3.panix.com>, fire...@panix.com (Elayne
Wechsler-Chaput) writes:
>ShutUpRob (shut...@aol.com) wrote:
>> Does anybody besides me see the irony in hiring Name
>>Withheld to follow Peter David?
>Um, I think *everyone* sees the irony, Rob. :)
Phew! I was getting worried for a minute there 'cause we weren't
belaboring the obvious like we normally do. <vbg>
-- Rob Jensen -- loves to belabor the obvious for shucks and grins
Redcrosse Knight
The Sun wrote:
>
> I've never read anything by Erik Larsen. I loved Peter David's Aquaman, and I have a
> tendency to follow writers rather than titles or characters. Is Larsen worth checking
> out, in the opinion of those who have read his work?
Erik Larsen kicks serious ass, and is IMO *the* most underrated writer
and artist in comics today. His book, The Savage Dragon, is one of the
books that most comic book creators (Kurt Busiek and Keith Giffen for
example) read regularly and enjoy, yet does not get the fan attention it
deserves. I didn't read Aquaman before, but I will follow it
religiously once Larsen is on board. Erik is da man!
The Redcrosse Knight
"Does anybody remember laughter?" - Robert Plant
Jeff Harris
I would love to see how Peter David reacted when he first heard that Erik
Larsen was taking over his Aquaman gig.
Off topic for a minute, I want to check out Erik Larsen's Savage
Dragon/Superman crossover coming out sometime this millenium.
ShutUpRob
After seeing Larsen's remarks about his future plans for the
title in CBEM, I've got to say that I appreciate the professionalism
he's showing in acknowledging David's influence on the character
and his reluctance to throw good character concepts out despite
the infamously heated . . . history the two writers have for each
other.
-- Rob Jensen
PatDOneill
>After seeing Larsen's remarks about his future plans for the
>title in CBEM, I've got to say that I appreciate the professionalism
>he's showing in acknowledging David's influence on the character
>and his reluctance to throw good character concepts out despite
>the infamously heated . . . history the two writers have for each
>other.
>
Assuming, of course, that the remarks in CBEM are not merely spin....
Best, Pat
The words and opinions expressed are those of Patrick Daniel O'Neill and do not
represent the opinions or policies of WIZARD: THE GUIDE TO COMICS.
Dwight Williams
PatDOneill (patdo...@aol.com) writes:
>>After seeing Larsen's remarks about his future plans for the
>>title in CBEM, I've got to say that I appreciate the professionalism
>>he's showing in acknowledging David's influence on the character
>>and his reluctance to throw good character concepts out despite
>>the infamously heated . . . history the two writers have for each
>>other.
>
> Assuming, of course, that the remarks in CBEM are not merely spin....
Which we should be very wary of.
While I'm pleased of Eric Battle's getting the art chores, I do worry
about plotting and scripting very much...
I intend to keep a very close and watchfully suspicious eye on events from
# 50 onwards...
Patrick Thompson
JohannaLD wrote in message
<19980315022...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>From: t...@netcom.com (Tom Galloway)
>>my personal opinion is that it's rather ducklike (in the "if it quacks
>>like a duck, has webbed feet like a duck, etc., it's still a duck even if
>>you call it a hamster" sense)
>
>Why doesn't this apply to Larsen's remarks? I can't figure out why
>everyone's assuming he's lying.
>
>>all of a sudden he's pitching for two books
>>where the only thing in common between them is that PAD's the
>>departing writer.
>
>How do you know that he didn't pitch before PAD left?
Or perhaps he just has similar taste in projects, and editors felt that
readers who liked PAD's stuff might like his. Or maybe he just so enjoyed
what PAD did on those titles that when the opportunity arose he wanted to
continue what PAD had started. I don't know what the bad blood was between
the two guys, if any, but I don't see any reason to read conflict into a
situation that could be easily explained in other terms.
Tom Galloway
In article <6ef0jk$l...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>,
Dwight Williams <ad...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote:
>PatDOneill (patdo...@aol.com) writes:
>> Assuming, of course, that the remarks in CBEM are not merely spin....
>Which we should be very wary of.
Well, my personal opinion is that it's rather ducklike (in the "if it quacks
like a duck, has webbed feet like a duck, etc., it's still a duck even if
you call it a hamster" sense) that Larsen's been happily doing his creator
owned book for 5 or so years and nothing else other than crossovers with it,
at least on a regular basis, and all of a sudden he's pitching for two books
where the only thing in common between them is that PAD's the departing
writer. If anyone knows about him pitching for any other books that have
been opening up or starting up at Marvel or DC, I'm more than happy to recant
my suspicions, but like I said, it looks darn ducklike to me so far.
tyg t...@netcom.com
JohannaLD
From: t...@netcom.com (Tom Galloway)
>my personal opinion is that it's rather ducklike (in the "if it quacks
>like a duck, has webbed feet like a duck, etc., it's still a duck even if
>you call it a hamster" sense)
Why doesn't this apply to Larsen's remarks? I can't figure out why
everyone's assuming he's lying.
>all of a sudden he's pitching for two books
>where the only thing in common between them is that PAD's the
>departing writer.
How do you know that he didn't pitch before PAD left?
Johanna
Sean Med
joha...@aol.com (JohannaLD) wrote:
>From: t...@netcom.com (Tom Galloway)
>>all of a sudden he's pitching for two books
>>where the only thing in common between them is that PAD's the
>>departing writer.
>
>How do you know that he didn't pitch before PAD left?
According to Larsen, he'd never read Aquaman until he heard
David was leaving. Then he picked up the back issues, read
them, and submitted a proposal.
Sean Medlock
T. Troy McNemar, Esq.
>>my personal opinion is that it's rather ducklike (in the "if it quacks
>>like a duck, has webbed feet like a duck, etc., it's still a duck even if
>>you call it a hamster" sense)
>
>Why doesn't this apply to Larsen's remarks? I can't figure out why
>everyone's assuming he's lying.
Because it's suspicious?
>>all of a sudden he's pitching for two books
>>where the only thing in common between them is that PAD's the
>>departing writer.
>
>How do you know that he didn't pitch before PAD left?
tyg invited evidence to prove his suspicion wrong in his original post.
Naturally, you clipped that part. Do you have information that proves the
suspicion wrong? If so, please share.
--
T. Troy McNemar, Esq. Tro...@indirect.com
"Kcor! Klahc! Kwahyaj!"
--Zatanna the Kansas coed
Favorite comic of the week: QUANTUM & WOODY #14
Runner-up: LEGIONNAIRES #60
LSG! June 11-14! See http://www.primenet.com/~sward/saturngirl/lsh/lsg2.htm
Tom Galloway
In article <19980315022...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
>>where the only thing in common between them is that PAD's the
>>departing writer.
>How do you know that he didn't pitch before PAD left?
I don't. Is this the case? And if so, I'd be curious as to how "professional"
it is to actively pitch for positions already held by someone for 4 and
10+ years and who hadn't indicated they'd planned to leave (i.e. if he wasn't
sought out by the editors and it's clearly not open pitch season, is it
considered accepted practice to try to take an assignment away from someone?).
And frankly, if he was pitching for these two books before Peter announced
his departure, I'd say it's evidence to strengthen my suspicions.
Not to mention that this is irrelevant to my actual point. Did Larsen pitch
for any non-PAD written books at DC or Marvel in the recent time period? Or
has he been consistently pitching for multiple projects there the past
several years and this just happens to be the first anyone seems to have
heard about it at all?
tyg t...@netcom.com
Tom Galloway
In article <6efgau$lhj$1...@news.vanderbilt.edu>,
Patrick Thompson <patrick.h...@vanderbilt.edu> wrote:
>Or perhaps he just has similar taste in projects, and editors felt that
>readers who liked PAD's stuff might like his. Or maybe he just so enjoyed
>what PAD did on those titles that when the opportunity arose he wanted to
>continue what PAD had started. I don't know what the bad blood was between
>the two guys, if any, but I don't see any reason to read conflict into a
>situation that could be easily explained in other terms.
It was fairly major bad blood over an extended period, and to be blunt Larsen
came off looking extremely immature, at least to me (and I'm still waiting
for him to actually write in to CBG's letter column and fess up to being
"Name Withheld", indicating some willingness to actually take responsibility
for that anonymous letter. Of course, it's now an open secret it was him, so
it'd be much less significant than if he'd done it much earlier. As a complete
side note, I found it very amusing that in the interview on the DC Teen
Heroes web page, Larsen says that he finds writing more satisfying than
drawing, given the "who needs writers" take of the NW letter). Wanting
to grab Peter's former books to trash them in some way would be right in
line with the way he was coming across during the worst of the feud. I'll
be pleasantly surprised if it doesn't come off like when John Byrne took
over Star Brand from Jim Shooter and proceeded to trash the lead character
and all concepts associated with it, particularly since said lead had a
number of similarities to Shooter.
tyg t...@netcom.com
Tom Galloway
In article <19980315025...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
Sean Med <sea...@aol.com> wrote:
>According to Larsen, he'd never read Aquaman until he heard David was
>leaving. Then he picked up the back issues, read them, and submitted a
>proposal.
Quack. I say, quack. :-)
tyg t...@netcom.com
ShutUpRob
>Wanting to grab Peter's former books to trash them in some way
>would be right in line with the way he was coming across during
>the worst of the feud.
Ah, but the irony here is that, considering that PAD was apparently
wanting to trash his own run on Aquaman, the *real* way to trash
PAD would be to keep the status quo as is.
-- Rob Jensen -- figures that that's the way Machiavelli would have
done it
Rellby55
>>Wanting to grab Peter's former books to trash them in some way
>>would be right in line with the way he was coming across during
>>the worst of the feud.
>
> Ah, but the irony here is that, considering that PAD was apparently
>wanting to trash his own run on Aquaman, the *real* way to trash
>PAD would be to keep the status quo as is.
>
Actually, he was going to continue the story in the direction it has been going
in since he began. You see, this is what stories are. They contain changes,
transformations, and revelations. In Larsen's defence, I do not see him going
with the status quo, and he said himself that he will try his best to honor
what came before. So why do you people come on here and say he's obviously
doing this to screw somebody over? As far as I am concerned, PAD was already
screwed by the jerks who wouldn't let him tell the story he wanted to tell. So
please. Stop trying to make trouble, it does nobody any good to deal with your
gossip.
Bob Heer
t...@netcom.com (Tom Galloway) wrote
On Sun, 15 Mar 1998, Bob Heer wrote:
> If anyone knows about him pitching for any other books that have
> been opening up or starting up at Marvel or DC, I'm more than happy to recant
> my suspicions, but like I said, it looks darn ducklike to me so far.
Hey, I wonder if he pitched for WONDER WOMAN or FOURTH WORLD when Byrne
announced he was leaving those.....
(for those not following all this nonsense over the years, Larsen and
Byrne were also openly feuding over the years)
Bob Heer bg...@torfree.net http://www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/1428
TotB Newsletter Gunk'l'dunk v2#5 available now
--
...it's started now, and it can't be stopped, not even if the Devil and all
his crocodiles came up from hell to stop it.
--
ShutUpRob
In article <19980315154...@ladder03.news.aol.com>, rell...@aol.com
(Rellby55) writes:
[I forget who said:]
>>>Wanting to grab Peter's former books to trash them in some way
>>>would be right in line with the way he was coming across during
>>>the worst of the feud.
[I said:]
>> Ah, but the irony here is that, considering that PAD was
>>apparently wanting to trash his own run on Aquaman, the *real*
>>way to trash PAD would be to keep the status quo as is.
>Actually, he was going to continue the story in the direction it has
>been going in since he began.
Yeah, ascending Arthur to godhood and trashing the character.
A rare misjudgment on PAD's part, IMO.
>You see, this is what stories are. They contain changes,
>transformations, and revelations.
There's such thing as too much of a good storytelling device.
> In Larsen's defence, I do not see him going with the status
>quo, and he said himself that he will try his best to honor
what came before.
That's a contradictory statement. Which is it? Do you see
him doing what he said and honoring whatcame before by
(to paraphrase Larsen's statement) not trashing PAD's run, or
do you see him not going with the status quo? Remember,
PAD's godhood storyline isn't going to happen, so Larsen
gets to write the harpooned-and-bearded character that we've
all grown to either love (in your and my case) or tolerate (in
the case of certain antichange DC diehards.)
>So why do you people come on here and say he's obviously
>doing this to screw somebody over?
I'm not. You're confusing me with tyg. =)
Larsen and David have an antagonistic history between them
-- mostly caused by Larsen's repeatedly immature public behavior.
He set the precedent almost a decade ago with an infamous letter
he wrote to CBG attacking the presence of writers in the artform,
continued his childish behavior as a spectator at the PAD/MacFarlane
debate and then kept extending the attacks in his letter column in
Savage Dragon. I'm giving Larsen the benefit of the doubt even
though very few other people are doing the same here -- mainly
because I think Larsen's fiefdom at Image isn't doing so well and
he probably *needs* to take a job at one of the big publishers, but
also because I will take people at face value unless and until
they've proven that they've lied.
And, by the way, I'm not one of those who's saying that "he's
obviously doing this to screw somebody over." You missed,
forgot or ignored my previous post to this thread in which I said
that I appreciated Larsen's professionalism in the way he
announced what he was beginning to plan to do with the title.
However, if you'd take a look again at the statement of mine
from my second post to this thread that you quote from above,
"Ah, but the irony here is that, considering that PAD was
apparently wanting to trash his own run on Aquaman, the *real*
way to trash PAD would be to keep the status quo as is."
you'll notice that I wasn't actually stating that I think that
Larsen is deliberately trying to trash PAD through the Machiavellian
tactic of sticking with a status quo that PAD himself was going to
trash. I was *speculating* that the real way to trash PAD on the
title would be to stick to the status quo. *If I were going to trash
PAD, this is the way I would do it.* A double-level irony to this
tactic would be that it would be very hard to prove simply because
sticking with the status quo is a win-win situation -- either a new writer
sticks with a proven, relatively popular revitalization[1] of a particular
hero and gains a certain amount of respect *by choosing not to
screw around with the status quo in an era in which the fans are
irritated with the writers continually screwing around with the
status quo* OR a new writer gets to stick it to a peer simply by
playing the game of a status quo that the peer himself had tired
of and was going to change. In Larsen's case, both motivations
appear to be plausible to me. I'm just willing to give him the benefit
of the doubt.
> As far as I am concerned, PAD was already screwed by the
>jerks who wouldn't let him tell the story he wanted to tell.
I agree. I think the editors at both Marvel and DC need to butt
out of the storytelling of such a distinguished veteran writer. That
said, I think that PAD was also going to be screwing himself over
with his plans for the character, unless there was going to be an
eventual de-godifying that he wasn't going to tell us about. After
reading about his aborted plans, I'm breathing a reluctant sigh
of relief.
> So please. Stop trying to make trouble, it does nobody any
>good to deal with your gossip.
I wasn't gossiping -- I was speculating. Stop jumping to
conclusions and realize that at least one other person on this
thread dislikes the manner in which PAD left the title and
likes the manner in which his replacement has decided to
present himself.
-- Rob Jensen
[1] Those of you harpoon-haters that still exist -- admit it, you're in
a minority now.
JohannaLD
From: sea...@aol.com (Sean Med)
>According to Larsen, he'd never read Aquaman until he heard
>David was leaving.
Really? Where did he say this?
Johanna
JohannaLD
From: t...@netcom.com (Tom Galloway)
>if he was pitching for these two books before Peter announced
>his departure, I'd say it's evidence to strengthen my suspicions.
Oh, I see -- so if he pitched before PAD left, he's out to get PAD...
and if he pitched after PAD left, it's more of his vendetta. This
is just getting silly.
Johanna
Sean Med
joha...@aol.com (JohannaLD) wrote:
I knew somebody'd ask that. :/ Either the Aquaman board or the
Larsen Ward board on AOL, I forget which.
He also insists that he has no intention of screwing up what David
has done with the title. Draw your own conclusions.
Sean Medlock
JohannaLD
From: sea...@aol.com (Sean Med)
>joha...@aol.com (JohannaLD) wrote:
>>From: sea...@aol.com (Sean Med)
>
>>>According to Larsen, he'd never read Aquaman until he heard
>>>David was leaving.
>>
>>Really? Where did he say this?
>
>I knew somebody'd ask that. :/ Either the Aquaman board or the
>Larsen Ward board on AOL, I forget which.
See, now, the DC Online Newsletter says that Larsen's a fan of long
standing. Although I guess it's possible that he's a long-time fan of
the character, but hadn't read PAD's issues.
Johanna
Ms. Victory
In article <19980315205...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
shut...@aol.com (ShutUpRob) wrote:
> That's a contradictory statement. Which is it? Do you see
> him doing what he said and honoring whatcame before by
> (to paraphrase Larsen's statement) not trashing PAD's run, or
> do you see him not going with the status quo? Remember,
> PAD's godhood storyline isn't going to happen, so Larsen
> gets to write the harpooned-and-bearded character that we've
> all grown to either love (in your and my case) or tolerate (in
> the case of certain antichange DC diehards.)
>
Its not contradictory. You can make changes, and still honor what came
before. PAD's run on Aquaman is a perfect example. He made alot of
changes, but he didn't trash any earlier Aquaman material, either.
> >So why do you people come on here and say he's obviously
> >doing this to screw somebody over?
>
> Larsen and David have an antagonistic history between them
> -- mostly caused by Larsen's repeatedly immature public behavior.
> He set the precedent almost a decade ago with an infamous letter
> he wrote to CBG attacking the presence of writers in the artform,
> continued his childish behavior as a spectator at the PAD/MacFarlane
> debate and then kept extending the attacks in his letter column in
> Savage Dragon. I'm giving Larsen the benefit of the doubt even
> though very few other people are doing the same here -- mainly
> because I think Larsen's fiefdom at Image isn't doing so well and
> he probably *needs* to take a job at one of the big publishers, but
> also because I will take people at face value unless and until
> they've proven that they've lied.
>
That's nice. Byrne and PAD don't get along real well either, but I
didn't see PAD going out of his way to attack Byrne's (albeit short) run
on Hulk. The fact that two creators don't get along interpersonally
doesn't mean that they're going to sacrifice story quality to attack each
other.
> I agree. I think the editors at both Marvel and DC need to butt
> out of the storytelling of such a distinguished veteran writer. That
> said, I think that PAD was also going to be screwing himself over
> with his plans for the character, unless there was going to be an
> eventual de-godifying that he wasn't going to tell us about. After
> reading about his aborted plans, I'm breathing a reluctant sigh
> of relief.
>
I disagree one hundred percent. A big problem with comics today is
that editors are too chicken to question 'veteran writers'. Both Grant
Morrison on JLA and Byrne on Wonder Woman have needed an editor to keep
them in line, keep them directed, and just plain tell them 'no' on some
stuff, let alone correcting mistakes. But because these guys are big
shots, the editors seem too scared to breathe a word to them for fear that
they'll leave the book. I'm a pretty big fan of PAD (alot moreso than I
am of the previous two gentlemen, at least), but I agree with you that the
storyline was a bad idea, and I'm glad someone said so. My one criticisim
of PAD is that he doesn't seem able to turn out a monthly book that
maintains any kind of status quo. There are always constant changes,
transmogrifications, etc. taking place. While I like change, and on the
Hulk that worked wonderfully, I think books like Aquaman and Supergirl
would work better if, after the sweeping changes, they were allowed to
settle into a groove for awhile.
I mean, in PAD's Aquaman run, we saw Orin lose a hand, get the bionic
harpoon, change costumes, vastly expand his powers, become King again, go
blind, regain his sight, go scaly, lose the scales, grow webbing in one
hand...and probably some more stuff that I'm forgetting.
Just once I'd like to see something comics-wise from PAD that reads
like most of his Star Trek. Less focus on constant change, and more on
weaving together threads from past continuity. Supergirl cum Q-Squared,
or whathaveyou.
--
-Joan Wayne
aka, Ms. Victory
Tom Galloway
Why, yes, it is getting silly how you're now consistently ignoring the
core reasoning of my suspicions, which were clearly stated.
To put it very bluntly, if *the only books* Larsen is pitching for are
either several PAD written books or books which PAD has just departed,
which have no other similarities, I'm suspicious of his motives. If
you can fish up evidence that he's been seriously pitching for Spider-Man,
Superman, whoever, great. As I stated in my first message, I'd be more
than willing to recant my suspicions given that. So far though, you've
just hit minor points (and clipped and not addressed the major one) or
asked veiled questions about side issues without adding any actual information.
tyg t...@netcom.com
Sean Med
joha...@aol.com (JohannaLD) wrote:
Okay, I went back and looked through the Larsen Ward folder
on AOL. Here's what Larsen said on 3/12 when asked why
he was taking over Aquaman:
<<Here's the scoop-- I was thinking that after six years of
working on my own characters that maybe those folks that
just read DC or Marvel stuff may not be aware that I even
exist and I wanted to try and get the word out by writing a title
at DC or Marvel. As it turned out, Aquaman had just been
vacated and Chris Eliopoulos and I fell to talking about what
could be done with the book. I'd never read so much as a
panel of its current run but I got ahold of some copies, got
caught up to speed and pitched a proposal. The editor
(Kevin Dooley) liked where I was taking the book and gave
me the gig.>>
Okay?
Sean
Rellby55
> I disagree one hundred percent. A big problem with comics today is
>that editors are too chicken to question 'veteran writers'. Both Grant
>Morrison on JLA and Byrne on Wonder Woman have needed an editor to keep
>them in line, keep them directed, and just plain tell
>them 'no' on some
>stuff, let alone correcting mistakes. But because these guys are big
>shots, the editors seem too scared to breathe a word to them for fear that
>they'll leave the book.
Either that or the editors really like what the creators are doing, and know
that any writer will do his or her BEST work when not restricted. I thought
this was common knowledge till I came here.
Abhay Khosla
On Sun, 15 Mar 1998, Ms. Victory wrote:
> In article <19980315205...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
> shut...@aol.com (ShutUpRob) wrote:
> > That's a contradictory statement. Which is it? Do you see
> > him doing what he said and honoring whatcame before by
> > PAD's godhood storyline isn't going to happen, so Larsen
> > gets to write the harpooned-and-bearded character that we've
You know, I'd always just sort of assumed whoever came after PAD would
just sort of... get rid of the harpoon. I guess Larsen'll keep it to not
seem like everything-PAD-did-is-gone man...
> > >So why do you people come on here and say he's obviously
> > >doing this to screw somebody over?
> > Larsen and David have an antagonistic history between them
> > -- mostly caused by Larsen's repeatedly immature public behavior.
> > He set the precedent almost a decade ago with an infamous letter
> > he wrote to CBG attacking the presence of writers in the artform,
OR defending the prescence of writer/artists as his stated intent was.
His execution attacked several specific writers, which can be seen as
unforgivable, but the letter clearly states a desire for good writers in
comics, thank you very much...
> > debate and then kept extending the attacks in his letter column in
> > Savage Dragon. I'm giving Larsen the benefit of the doubt even
And in the book itself at odd moments, sometimes noticeably, sometimes
not- very rarely taking away from the fact its one neat superhero comic;
Larsen also printed a few of PAD's letters, though considering 13 columns
of tiny ink Larsen expended, I'd wait to call them "equal time."
> > I agree. I think the editors at both Marvel and DC need to butt
> > out of the storytelling of such a distinguished veteran writer. That
> > said, I think that PAD was also going to be screwing himself over
> > with his plans for the character, unless there was going to be an
> > eventual de-godifying that he wasn't going to tell us about. After
> > reading about his aborted plans, I'm breathing a reluctant sigh
> > of relief.
Agreed(in HULK even! When they could just've split them in two and done
two books or something like that...), but at the same time, while I
disliked the plans... Harlan Ellison ideas! I'd have bought it just for
that.
> I disagree one hundred percent. A big problem with comics today is
> that editors are too chicken to question 'veteran writers'. Both Grant
> Morrison on JLA and Byrne on Wonder Woman have needed an editor to keep
> them in line, keep them directed, and just plain tell them 'no' on some
> stuff, let alone correcting mistakes. But because these guys are big
I don't want to read that. I want the stuff to be proofread and just
plain dumb things like "the new 13th amendment to the Constitution" to be
taken care of, or for the JSA characters' names to be spelled right.
If I want to read Shecky the Wonder Editor's comic book, I'd buy Shecky
the Wonder Editor's. I'm paying my money to get a comic with Grant
Morrison's name on it instead.
Its a fine line obviously. Whoever stopped Kieth Giffen's plans for
LSH(where they decided who would survive a big battle by like... throwing
up pieces of paper in the air) did their job. Stopping a creator with the
lifetime of PAD on a book from doing his version of the Hulk though while
its still profitable and other avenues are open to pursue more
commercial ideas just seems like something stupid Marvel excels at...
> shots, the editors seem too scared to breathe a word to them for fear that
> they'll leave the book. I'm a pretty big fan of PAD (alot moreso than I
They've earned the editor's trust, maybe? More importantly, its in their
best interest. JLA sold crap before Morrison. Now its next to the X-men.
Why mess with something successful?(which is why I don't get the Hulk
thing...)
> storyline was a bad idea, and I'm glad someone said so. My one criticisim
> of PAD is that he doesn't seem able to turn out a monthly book that
> maintains any kind of status quo. There are always constant changes,
> transmogrifications, etc. taking place. While I like change, and on the
They seem to evolve slowly, most of the time. And constant changes...
fact of life. Have to keep the audience interested, and the audience is
on a sugar rush presently...
Aquaman... the Hulk... both just seem to be that the Big Thing now isn't
to make characters gritty and evil. The Big Thing is to try and do the
Classic Version. Sell it to them as if they were 5 years old again
because most of the audience thats stuck around through all of the Big
Two's awful crap is the hardcore audience, the older audience that wants
its buttons pushed... I mean, I'm in that audience and I'm glad thats the
big trend du jour... I want a Teen Titans that LOOKS like the goddamn Teen
Titans, and I want the JLA to look like this, and I DO want to see the
Hulk run around in the desert getting chased by the army every now and
then.
But chasing after these big trends always means messing with something
that doesn't need messing with, messing with the writers who've cultivated
the book slowly like PAD, so its sad to see the sacrifice that has to be
made...
> Just once I'd like to see something comics-wise from PAD that reads
> like most of his Star Trek. Less focus on constant change, and more on
> weaving together threads from past continuity. Supergirl cum Q-Squared,
> or whathaveyou.
I was hoping PAD would work on his own visions and his own characters, try
to inject something new into this stagnant pools instead of this Young
Justice thing(*awful* name... name like that's a strike against the book
already). Sounds really sad in the interviews over on Mania- hoped
this would kick him into something different. But that's the kind of work
he likes to do... wish him well with it... damn sorry to hear he's
having problems...
-Abhay
akh...@umich.edu
ANd people were trying to tell me Marvel wasn't evil anymore... my ass!!!
Padguy
ShutUprob writes:
> Yeah, ascending Arthur to godhood and trashing the character.
>A rare misjudgment on PAD's part, IMO.
>
>
You use the term "godhood" repeatedly, and I just want to say, that's not how I
saw it for a moment. Swamp Thing was never portrayed as a god (people
referring to him as the Swamp God aside.) Firestorm was never portrayed as a
god. Just because Naiad has been shown as a being of pure water, that's not
how I was going to handle Aquaman in the same role. My intention was not only
for him to maintain his human form, but my plan was to bring back Mera to help
keep him "honest," as it were. The people's anxiousness to see him back with a
queen in general and Mera in particular was what I was setting up in the Maxima
issues.
Curiously, when I broached the idea of bringing Mera back, that notion was
accepted by the PTB, but not overenthusiastically, and I was also asked why I
was taking the book "backwards" by hooking them up again. It was not seen as
advancement. Yet Erik is bringing back Mera, and it's welcomed by the PTB.
I was also told to de-emphasize Poseidonis and make Aquaman more of a player in
the general DCU...yet Erik's plans all square around Poseidonis, near as I can
tell.
Go figure.
PAD
JohannaLD
From: t...@netcom.com (Tom Galloway)
>you've just hit minor points (and clipped and not addressed the major
>one) or asked veiled questions about side issues without adding any
>actual information.
That seemed appropriate for a thread that started CONTRARY to the
information we do have (statements by Larsen that he's NOT on a
vendetta). My only point was to show that you're going to believe the
worst no matter what.
Johanna
Tom Galloway
In article <19980316152...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
Well, this is total crap.
As you again clipped out, I stated again that should it turn out that Larsen
has been pitching for non-PAD books, I'd gladly recant my suspicions. Hardly,
a case of my keeping them "no matter what". And, yes, since you've not
provided *any* new information about this situation, I have no reason to
change my mind. The one bit of new information from this thread supports my
suspicions; the claim (I admit I've not checked it out for myself), that
Larsen himself stated in an interview that he'd not even been following
Aquaman.
And, frankly, while Larsen has a long track record of immature behavior,
I doubt he's stupid enough to state in public anything like "Yeah, it'd
be cool to get Peter's books and trash 'em", even if that is what he's
planning. But the odd thing is that Johanna's on record as saying that she
wouldn't trust anyone here online about motives or action statements
regarding doing continuity research for DC, but she's apparently willing
to trust everything Larsen says about his motives...even when there's no
evidence for the former and evidence to be suspicious about the latter. Hmmm.
tyg t...@netcom.com
Jamie Coville
On Mon, 16 Mar 1998 17:01:47 GMT, t...@netcom.com (Tom Galloway) wrote:
>Well, this is total crap.
>
>As you again clipped out, I stated again that should it turn out that Larsen
>has been pitching for non-PAD books, I'd gladly recant my suspicions. Hardly,
>a case of my keeping them "no matter what". And, yes, since you've not
>provided *any* new information about this situation, I have no reason to
>change my mind. The one bit of new information from this thread supports my
>suspicions; the claim (I admit I've not checked it out for myself), that
>Larsen himself stated in an interview that he'd not even been following
>Aquaman.
>
>And, frankly, while Larsen has a long track record of immature behavior,
>I doubt he's stupid enough to state in public anything like "Yeah, it'd
>be cool to get Peter's books and trash 'em", even if that is what he's
>planning. But the odd thing is that Johanna's on record as saying that she
>wouldn't trust anyone here online about motives or action statements
>regarding doing continuity research for DC, but she's apparently willing
>to trust everything Larsen says about his motives...even when there's no
>evidence for the former and evidence to be suspicious about the latter. Hmmm.
>
>tyg t...@netcom.com
First off, Larsen holds no grudges against PAD. He has said so on
several occasations. He even edited PAD's name out of one of my
letters because he wanted the fued to stop a long time ago. The damn
feud is like 4 years old or so.
Secondly, Erik is just *now* proposing for books. He heard that Hulk
and Aquaman are open, so he sent in proposals. If he doesn't get Hulk,
you may see him try for another open book.
Regards, | The History of Superhero Comic Books:
Jamie Coville | http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8580/
Jamie Coville
On 15 Mar 1998 21:32:01 GMT, joha...@aol.com (JohannaLD) wrote:
>From: sea...@aol.com (Sean Med)
>
>>According to Larsen, he'd never read Aquaman until he heard
>>David was leaving.
>
>Really? Where did he say this?
>
>Johanna
He did say it on the FAO (Fin Addicts Online - Savage Dragon list),
but Erik also said a bunch of back issues have been sent to him by the
Aquaman editor, so he knows what not to contradict.
ShutUpRob
In article <diana-15039...@206.101.2.201>, di...@discover.net (Ms.
Victory) writes:
> That's nice. Byrne and PAD don't get along real well either, but I
>didn't see PAD going out of his way to attack Byrne's (albeit short) run
>on Hulk. The fact that two creators don't get along interpersonally
>doesn't mean that they're going to sacrifice story quality to attack each
>other.
Normally, I'd agree. However, we're talking Eric Larsen, who has
incorporated into his work heavy-handed, immature attacks at peers
he doesn't like, most prominently slamming Byrne with his Next Men
parody-villains within the pages of Savage Dragon. This one crossed
over the line from parody into ad hominem attack.
-- Rob Jensen
JohannaLD
From: t...@netcom.com (Tom Galloway)
>Well, this is total crap.
The speculation that Larsen is writing Aquaman simply to "get" PAD?
I agree. From his statements (and the editor's) on the matter, I
think he's got some interesting ideas for a character he likes.
>I stated again that should it turn out that Larsen
>has been pitching for non-PAD books, I'd gladly recant my suspicions.
And if DC gives me exact sales figures on JLA, I'll gladly recant my
suspicions that it's really being written by aliens. In other words,
it's a ridiculous claim to begin with, and I wouldn't expect people to
reveal trade secrets to you to disprove it.
>I doubt he's stupid enough to state in public anything like "Yeah, it'd
>be cool to get Peter's books and trash 'em", even if that is what he's
>planning.
So you believe that he's lying instead? And that he's gotten his
editor to lie for him as well?
>Johanna's on record as saying that she
>wouldn't trust anyone here online about motives or action statements
>regarding doing continuity research for DC, but she's apparently willing
>to trust everything Larsen says about his motives...
Oh, so you're just arguing about this with me because you still feel
insulted. I understand.
Johanna
Tom Galloway
In article <19980316210...@ladder01.news.aol.com> joha...@aol.com (JohannaLD) writes:
>From: t...@netcom.com (Tom Galloway)
>>Well, this is total crap.
>The speculation that Larsen is writing Aquaman simply to "get" PAD?
>I agree. From his statements (and the editor's) on the matter, I
>think he's got some interesting ideas for a character he likes.
That's your decision. I note that you again leave out something significant;
that Larsen pitched for both Aquaman and Hulk, and, once again, as far
as anyone seems to know, for nothing else for five plus years. In other
words, no, Larsen writing Aquaman alone is not sufficient for me to be
suspicious.
>>I stated again that should it turn out that Larsen
>>has been pitching for non-PAD books, I'd gladly recant my suspicions.
>And if DC gives me exact sales figures on JLA, I'll gladly recant my
>suspicions that it's really being written by aliens. In other words,
>it's a ridiculous claim to begin with, and I wouldn't expect people to
>reveal trade secrets to you to disprove it.
Yeah. Uh huh. Right. Thinking that someone who's not pitched
anything for five years, who has a very well documented history of
very strong dislike for someone, and who's only pitching for books that
someone is leaving *might* have an ulterior motive is right up there
with thinking JLA is written by aliens. Of course, technically, JLA
is written by an alien, given the America in the name and Grant being
from Scotland. :-)
And now whether someone has pitched for a title is a trade secret of
major proportions? Did DC have you go through a Paranoia 101 class when
you started there? Hell, we know that Larsen pitched for Hulk because
of statements he's made.
>>Johanna's on record as saying that she
>>wouldn't trust anyone here online about motives or action statements
>>regarding doing continuity research for DC, but she's apparently willing
>>to trust everything Larsen says about his motives...
>Oh, so you're just arguing about this with me because you still feel
>insulted. I understand.
Your rent check for your summer home in my head is overdue. I'm arguing
about this because you've provided no information that would change anyone's
mind (easy enough to assume, since you've provided no new information
period), but have been making veiled and not-so-veiled comments about it
as if you had. And I just found it interesting that you're on record as
not being willing to trust a large number of people, who've given you
no reason to warrant such distrust, but are apparently willing to trust
Larsen, whose behavior (such as the Name Withheld letter) does indicate
a liklihood of malice, absolutely.
tyg t...@netcom.com
Thesippel
This is a lot of talk for a book whose sales are going to plummet very soon.
Let's start the "Aquaman death watch". I'm guessing the last issue will be
#60.
JohannaLD
From: t...@netcom.com (Tom Galloway)
>I note that you again leave out something significant;
>that Larsen pitched for both Aquaman and Hulk,
Oh, what a surprise, that Larsen likes Hulk. I never would have
guessed that, given the book he's worked on for five years.
Fact is, if pros hear that something is open at short notice,
it's natural to consider a pitch if you like the character. The
fact that the previous writer quit quickly means you might
have more of a chance, since the publisher was left in the
lurch.
>Did DC have you go through a Paranoia 101 class when
>you started there?
Oh, no, there's nothing personal in this discussion, nothing at all.
Tyg, what does my having worked at DC have to do with this
argument over whether or not one should assume a pro is
lying in his statements to the press? Other than giving me
more background in the area than you have, I mean.
>I'm arguing about this because you've provided no information
>that would change anyone's mind (easy enough to assume,
>since you've provided no new information period),
Wrong -- I pointed out that there was more information on this in
the DC Online Newsletter, thereby showing that I had a source for
my belief that there's no vendetta here. (Well, not one between
Larsen and PAD, anyway.)
>I just found it interesting that you're on record as
>not being willing to trust a large number of people, who've given you
>no reason to warrant such distrust,
Do personal attacks out of nowhere count? I guess not, since
that's the tactic you're currently engaging in.
>but are apparently willing to trust
>Larsen, whose behavior (such as the Name Withheld letter) does indicate
>a liklihood of malice, absolutely.
Actually, I trust Kevin Dooley, but I also believe that statements of
a week ago are more indicative of someone's current opinion than
statements of several years ago.
Johanna
Dwight Williams
Padguy (pad...@aol.com) writes:
> ShutUprob writes:
>
>> Yeah, ascending Arthur to godhood and trashing the character.
>>A rare misjudgment on PAD's part, IMO.
>
> You use the term "godhood" repeatedly, and I just want to say, that's not how I
> saw it for a moment. Swamp Thing was never portrayed as a god (people
> referring to him as the Swamp God aside.) Firestorm was never portrayed as a
> god. Just because Naiad has been shown as a being of pure water, that's not
> how I was going to handle Aquaman in the same role. My intention was not only
> for him to maintain his human form, but my plan was to bring back Mera to help
> keep him "honest," as it were. The people's anxiousness to see him back with a
> queen in general and Mera in particular was what I was setting up in the Maxima
> issues.
The comments on perceptions of elementals such as Martin "Deep Space
Firestorm" Stein, Naiad, and Swamp Thing seems quite on-the-mark to me.
> Curiously, when I broached the idea of bringing Mera back, that notion was
> accepted by the PTB, but not overenthusiastically, and I was also asked why I
> was taking the book "backwards" by hooking them up again. It was not seen as
> advancement. Yet Erik is bringing back Mera, and it's welcomed by the PTB.
> I was also told to de-emphasize Poseidonis and make Aquaman more of a player in
> the general DCU...yet Erik's plans all square around Poseidonis, near as I can
> tell.
Different pitching techniques at different times under different moods, I
guess.
I take it you would've preferred to keep Poseidonis in play as well?
> Go figure.
Trying to. Carefully.
--
Dwight Williams(ad...@freenet.carleton.ca) -- Orleans, Ontario, Canada
Patrick Thompson
Tom Galloway wrote in message ...
>As you again clipped out, I stated again that should it turn out that
Larsen
>has been pitching for non-PAD books, I'd gladly recant my suspicions.
>a case of my keeping them "no matter what". And, yes, since you've not
>provided *any* new information about this situation, I have no reason to
>change my mind. The one bit of new information from this thread supports my
>suspicions; the claim (I admit I've not checked it out for myself), that
>Larsen himself stated in an interview that he'd not even been following
>Aquaman.
All right, here's what I don't get: We have very little information, and so
a bunch of fans take it upon themselves to assume Larsen is guilty based on
their very lack of corroborating evidence. There isn't enough evidence to
support any suspicions, as far as I can see--or enough to disprove them.
Since no one here really can prove Larsen is up to anything, why don't we
just assume that his intentions are pure, and wait until we actually see the
finished product before we judge it on the personal life of the author. I'm
sorry things turned out in a way that leaves a bad taste in the mouth of a
lot of fans, and even more sorry that apparently PAD was hurt by DC liking
suggestions from Larsen that they rejected coming from PAD. Hopefully,
though, everyone will end up better off after this admittedly awkward
situation. Let's do our best to let that happen by not throwing unnecessary
blame around. I hope Larsen the best of luck on Aquaman, and PAD the best
of luck on whatever new projects he picks up.
Tom Galloway
In article <19980316224...@ladder01.news.aol.com> joha...@aol.com (JohannaLD) writes:
>From: t...@netcom.com (Tom Galloway)
>>I note that you again leave out something significant;
>>that Larsen pitched for both Aquaman and Hulk,
>Oh, what a surprise, that Larsen likes Hulk. I never would have
>guessed that, given the book he's worked on for five years.
Johanna, please get this straight. It is not any one single thing that
results in my suspicions. It is a combination of *all* the ones I've
mentioned. Taking one in isolation in each of your replies and attacking it
alone as being insufficient is just sloppy debating tactics.
>Fact is, if pros hear that something is open at short notice,
>it's natural to consider a pitch if you like the character. The
Never said it wasn't. However, are these two the only ones Larsen is
pitching? And the first in over five years?
>>Did DC have you go through a Paranoia 101 class when
>>you started there?
>Oh, no, there's nothing personal in this discussion, nothing at all.
Nope, there isn't...if anyone else were making the same comments you have,
I'd respond the same way (modulo leaving out the "DC" in the above, but
that's directed at your posting style in general since returning).
>Tyg, what does my having worked at DC have to do with this
>argument over whether or not one should assume a pro is
>lying in his statements to the press? Other than giving me
>more background in the area than you have, I mean.
It has to do with claiming that whether someone has pitched for a book
or any books is a, in your own words, "trade secret". Which is silly.
Which has nothing to do with your background.
>>I'm arguing about this because you've provided no information
>>that would change anyone's mind (easy enough to assume,
>>since you've provided no new information period),
>Wrong -- I pointed out that there was more information on this in
>the DC Online Newsletter, thereby showing that I had a source for
>my belief that there's no vendetta here. (Well, not one between
>Larsen and PAD, anyway.)
Wrong yourself; I knew about the DC Online Newsletter and read it when
it appeared. That's not new information; Larsen saying he's not doing
it for that is a statement from someone with a track record that to me
means he has to show it, not just say it.
>>I just found it interesting that you're on record as
>>not being willing to trust a large number of people, who've given you
>>no reason to warrant such distrust,
>Do personal attacks out of nowhere count? I guess not, since
>that's the tactic you're currently engaging in.
Naw, I'm just blunter about them than you are these days.
>>but are apparently willing to trust
>>Larsen, whose behavior (such as the Name Withheld letter) does indicate
>>a liklihood of malice, absolutely.
>Actually, I trust Kevin Dooley, but I also believe that statements of
>a week ago are more indicative of someone's current opinion than
>statements of several years ago.
And Dooley has had a summer home in Larsen's head for how long now? I'm
willing to believe that Dooley trusts Larsen, but that's not any particular
reason for me to trust Larsen absolutely based on Larsen's track record.
As I said to someone else in email, I hope I'm wrong. I'm more than willing
to post something to that effect around Aquaman #56 (given that that'll
be around the 6 issue mark for Larsen) if I am wrong. But Larsen's past
behavior has earned my suspicions, and he'll have to show, not tell, me
that they're incorrect.
tyg t...@netcom.com
Ken
I think there's a very likely middle-ground here, that's neither
damning Larsen nor ignoring history-- rather than trying to destroy
David's work, he may just want to one-up him (either sales-wise, or
story-wise). In other words, he may have a questionable motive but not
be planning hostile actions.
Given his assertion about not contradicting what came before, I find
this scenario most likely.
Given that I don't particularly care for Larsen's or David's work, or
either charcater, I feel pretty unbiased in that interpretation. Of
course, any speculation is just that, and I think Tom's gone a bit out
on a limb (though I didn't read his initial post; it may not have been
a strong as the argument it's produced).
--
-Ken
Magic 8-Ball sez: Ask again later
Sean Med
shut...@aol.com (ShutUpRob) wrote:
>However, we're talking Eric Larsen, who has
>incorporated into his work heavy-handed, immature attacks at peers
>he doesn't like, most prominently slamming Byrne with his Next Men
>parody-villains within the pages of Savage Dragon. This one crossed
>over the line from parody into ad hominem attack.
Well, let's be fair. PAD and Byrne have done the same thing.
Sean
ShutUpRob
In article <19980316143...@ladder03.news.aol.com>, pad...@aol.com
(Padguy) writes:
>ShutUprob writes:
>> Yeah, ascending Arthur to godhood and trashing the
>>character. A rare misjudgment on PAD's part, IMO.
>You use the term "godhood" repeatedly, and I just want to say,
>that's not how I saw it for a moment. Swamp Thing was never
>portrayed as a god (people referring to him as the Swamp God
>aside.) Firestorm was never portrayed as a god. Just because
>Naiad has been shown as a being of pure water, that's not
>how I was going to handle Aquaman in the same role.
Whether or not Aquaman or any character set up to be one
of the elementals was or wasn't going to be transformed into
a being made up of the very element that he or she embodies
is completely beside the point. The Elementals are essentially
cryptopaganistic (I just made that term up.) equivalents to the
pantheons of the various religions. They are personifications of
elemental aspects of existence. That reads as gods to me.
I see no difference in status between Water Elemental and
Poseidon/Triton or Fire Elemental and Apollo. And this whole
business of killing off Poseidon and having Arthur take on his
role doesn't help any.
The problem, however, is that Firestorm was a superhero
before he ascended to elemental status, and, had your plan
gone through, so would have Aquaman. That blurs the issue
a bit because superheroes are to gods what the Greek Pantheon
was to the Titans of Old (the mythic Titans): they're the next
generation of the same idea.
>My intention was not only for him to maintain his human form,
You don't suppose you confused them when you brought up the
subject of making Arthur a Water Elemental? =)
>but my plan was to bring back Mera to help keep him "honest," as
>it were. The people's anxiousness to see him back with a
>queen in general and Mera in particular was what I was setting
>up in the Maxima issues.
It was readily apparent to me that you were working up to
bringing Mera back in some kind of a credible manner, given the
characters' history.
>Curiously, when I broached the idea of bringing Mera back,
>that notion was accepted by the PTB, but not overenthusiastically,
>and I was also asked why I was taking the book "backwards" by
>| hooking them up again. It was not seen as advancement. Yet
>Erik is bringing back Mera, and it's welcomed by the PTB.
>I was also told to de-emphasize Poseidonis and make Aquaman
>more of a player in the general DCU...yet Erik's plans all square
>around Poseidonis, near as I can tell.
>
>Go figure.
Don't look at me. I disagree with the broad strokes of the parts
of your plan concerning Arthur himself and I *still* think that the
Aquaman editorial office owes you an apology for interfering with
your plans. That they're going through with several of them anyway
goes beyond irony and is just plain hypocritical, but then again,
I lost respect for the editorial offices of Dooley and Kupperberg a
long time ago.
(This goes double for the Hulk office. What in the HELL are
they thinking?)
Thanks for responding,
Spooon
"Patrick Thompson" <patrick.h...@vanderbilt.edu> wrote:
>JohannaLD wrote in message
><19980315022...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>>From: t...@netcom.com (Tom Galloway)
>>>all of a sudden he's pitching for two books
>>>where the only thing in common between them is that PAD's the
>>>departing writer.
>Or perhaps he just has similar taste in projects, and editors felt that
>readers who liked PAD's stuff might like his. Or maybe he just so enjoyed
>what PAD did on those titles that when the opportunity arose he wanted to
>continue what PAD had started. I don't know what the bad blood was between
>the two guys, if any, but I don't see any reason to read conflict into a
>situation that could be easily explained in other terms.
You know, I don't necvessarily think that Larsen is grabbing the books
just to "spit in PAD's face." First of all, I'm not sure if PAD would
really take it that personally. He has pretty much gone on record as
saying that writers *should* expect to have some of their efforts
ret-conned and what not (at least, that was th eimpression I recall
getting during one thread). Secondly, I don't think that Larsen would
want to get a reputation as a person who takes on projects solely out
of personal vendettas. This is not the way to foster could relations
with other oprofessionals.
No, if anything, the most sinsister motive that I can ascribe to
Larsen at the moment is a desire to "beat PAD at his own game." In
other words, maybe Larsen wants to prove he is better than PAD by
doing what PAD was doing, but doing it "better" (apply sales = quality
argument here for "proof"of who is better). This *could* be why he
only pitched for former PAD books.
Re:SPOOONses are always welcome
Jim "Spooon" Henry
Spo...@juno.com
Hen...@uakron.edu
PatDOneill
In article <350d89b5...@gollum.kingston.net>,
jcoville@SPAM_FILTER.adan.kingston.net (Jamie Coville) writes:
>First off, Larsen holds no grudges against PAD. He has said so on
>several occasations.
Actions speak louder than words.
Best, Pat
The words and opinions expressed are those of Patrick Daniel O'Neill and do not
represent the opinions or policies of WIZARD: THE GUIDE TO COMICS.
thad a doria
In article <19980316205...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
ShutUpRob <shut...@aol.com> wrote:
>In article <diana-15039...@206.101.2.201>, di...@discover.net (Ms.
>Victory) writes:
>
>> That's nice. Byrne and PAD don't get along real well either, but I
>>didn't see PAD going out of his way to attack Byrne's (albeit short) run
>>on Hulk. The fact that two creators don't get along interpersonally
>>doesn't mean that they're going to sacrifice story quality to attack each
>>other.
>
>incorporated into his work heavy-handed, immature attacks at peers
>he doesn't like, most prominently slamming Byrne with his Next Men
>parody-villains within the pages of Savage Dragon. This one crossed
>over the line from parody into ad hominem attack.
They were more than Next Men pastiches, they were digs at any book Byrne
had been on recently (Namor, Superman, She-Hulk, etc.), and the name Nixed
Men was a dig at JB's rep of leaving titles in the lurch.
A mitigating factor is that one of those characters (she-dragon) has
gotten a lot of development lately and is more than a joke character.
I think he knows when a joke's over.
--
-Thad Doria
"I no like the cheese" --Anonymous Greek tourist, Las Vegas NV, 1998
Mr Daniel
On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, thad a doria wrote:
-In article <19980316205...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
-ShutUpRob <shut...@aol.com> wrote:
->
-> Normally, I'd agree. However, we're talking Eric Larsen, who has
->incorporated into his work heavy-handed, immature attacks at peers
->he doesn't like, most prominently slamming Byrne with his Next Men
->parody-villains within the pages of Savage Dragon. This one crossed
->over the line from parody into ad hominem attack.
-
-They were more than Next Men pastiches, they were digs at any book Byrne
-had been on recently (Namor, Superman, She-Hulk, etc.), and the name Nixed
-Men was a dig at JB's rep of leaving titles in the lurch.
-
-A mitigating factor is that one of those characters (she-dragon) has
-gotten a lot of development lately and is more than a joke character.
-I think he knows when a joke's over.
Actually, I'm often surprised how successful joke / parody
characters seem to be and how they can develop beyond their
initial conceptions.
The one that obviously springs to mind is Hank Henshaw whose
background is almost embarrassing to recall in the way it
was "inspired" by the Fantastic Four.
Um... any others anyone can think of?
Au reservoir,
The Inspirational Mr Daniel.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The University claims copyright on everything I do on their computers.
Therefore the above opinions are clearly theirs.
Please, feel free to sue them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
Thesippel (thes...@aol.com) wrote:
: This is a lot of talk for a book whose sales are going to plummet very soon.
: #60.
I don't understand where you get this speculation. Erik Larsen certainly
seems to have as many fans as Peter David. That would indicate sales will
probably not fluctuate that much (or may even rise) from where they are
now.
- Elayne
--
What I mean by deviant: completely lacking in the social skills and
knowledge possessed by most of the rest of humanity... Most of us are
perfectly normal most of the time. We only become jerks and morons on
Usenet, like other decent people. -- Andrew C. Lannen
Ken
On 17 Mar 1998 18:53:34 GMT, Sean Med <sea...@aol.com> yammered...
>"Patrick Thompson" <patrick.h...@vanderbilt.edu> wrote:
>
>>PatDOneill wrote in message
>>>Actions speak louder than words.
>>
>>
>
>Don't count your chickens before they're hatched.
Never eat spinach with a stranger.
--
-Ken
Magic 8-Ball sez: Outlook good
Aaron Veenstra
In article <6em9e4$2...@panix3.panix.com>, fire...@panix.com (Elayne
Wechsler-Chaput) wrote:
> Thesippel (thes...@aol.com) wrote:
> : This is a lot of talk for a book whose sales are going to plummet very
soon.
> : Let's start the "Aquaman death watch". I'm guessing the last issue will be
> : #60.
>
> I don't understand where you get this speculation. Erik Larsen certainly
> seems to have as many fans as Peter David.
That's a bit of a stretch. Much as I like Larsen (I read DRAGON ahead of
all of PAD's books right now), his book has been dropping sales for quite
a while. He has started gaining recognition lately, so who knows? Maybe
AQUAMAN is the spark that'll light his writing career.
Aaron, notes that Larsen did show up in Wizard's top 10 list a couple months ago
Aaron Veenstra
In article <6emkgd$1bd$1...@client3.news.psi.net>,
k...@trdlnk.nukethispart.com (Ken) wrote:
> On 17 Mar 1998 18:53:34 GMT, Sean Med <sea...@aol.com> yammered...
> >"Patrick Thompson" <patrick.h...@vanderbilt.edu> wrote:
> >
> >>PatDOneill wrote in message
> >>>Actions speak louder than words.
> >>
> >>
> >>Judge not lest ye be judged.
> >
> >Don't count your chickens before they're hatched.
>
> Never eat spinach with a stranger.
Don't eat the brown acid.
Aaron
Ms. Victory
In article <Epyw...@midway.uchicago.edu>, do...@midway.uchicago.edu (thad
a doria) wrote:
> In article <19980316205...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
> ShutUpRob <shut...@aol.com> wrote:
> >In article <diana-15039...@206.101.2.201>, di...@discover.net (Ms.
> >Victory) writes:
> >
> >> That's nice. Byrne and PAD don't get along real well either, but I
> >>didn't see PAD going out of his way to attack Byrne's (albeit short) run
> >>on Hulk. The fact that two creators don't get along interpersonally
> >>doesn't mean that they're going to sacrifice story quality to attack each
> >>other.
> >
> > Normally, I'd agree. However, we're talking Eric Larsen, who has
> >incorporated into his work heavy-handed, immature attacks at peers
> >he doesn't like, most prominently slamming Byrne with his Next Men
> >parody-villains within the pages of Savage Dragon. This one crossed
> >over the line from parody into ad hominem attack.
>
I'm sorry, but I don't take that as an ad hominem attack. Making
villains that are parodies of another company's characters is a pretty
longstanding tradition at both DC and Marvel. I'm not a regular reader of
Savage Dragon, but from the couple of issues I have read, the book seemed
pretty campy, and all in good fun. I have no reason to assume that the
Dragon beating up a bunch of Byrne characters was handled in the same way,
as good fun.
That, and its hard for me to have any sympathy for Byrne, especially in
this area, after his numerous digs at Garth Ennis and Alan Grant's Demon
in the pages of Wonder Woman. He can dish it out, he should be able to
take it.
--
-Joan Wayne
aka, Ms. Victory
Edward Mathews
Sean Med (sea...@aol.com) wrote:
: "Patrick Thompson" <patrick.h...@vanderbilt.edu> wrote:
:
: >PatDOneill wrote in message
: >>Actions speak louder than words.
: >
: >
: >Judge not lest ye be judged.
:
: Don't count your chickens before they're hatched.
It's always darkest before the dawn.
Ed (cliche, pussy cat!) Mathews
*****
**-----
* ---
-
Patrick Thompson
NYSteve111
>On 17 Mar 1998 18:53:34 GMT, Sean Med <sea...@aol.com> yammered...
>>"Patrick Thompson" <patrick.h...@vanderbilt.edu> wrote:
>
>
SteveWacker
enjoying thread drift
Sean Med
Nick Eden
On Tue, 17 Mar 1998 11:54:26 -0500, asve...@mtu.edu (Aaron Veenstra)
wrote:
Latest Dragon 22.3 thou
Latest Aquaman 27.2 thou
I was expecting more of a difference. I think #60 is too early.
-------------------------------------------------
Bizzaro Squiddies 1998
Votes at
http://www.pheasnt.demon.co.uk/Bizzaro.html
Brian H. Bailie
Ms. Victory wrote:
>
> I'm sorry, but I don't take that as an ad hominem attack. Making
> villains that are parodies of another company's characters is a pretty
> longstanding tradition at both DC and Marvel. I'm not a regular reader of
> Savage Dragon, but from the couple of issues I have read, the book seemed
> pretty campy, and all in good fun. I have no reason to assume that the
> Dragon beating up a bunch of Byrne characters was handled in the same way,
> as good fun.
"I've never seen what you're talking about, I have no firsthand knowledge
of the information you have, and I'm really not sure of the facts in this
discussion... But you're wrong."
Erik Larsen's tirades against both Byrne and David have been neither
subtle, good-natured, or meant in any sense of a fun nature. They have
been petty, mean-spirited, and ofttimes wholly inappropriate for a book
that young readers would have their hands on. His letters page rantings
have been especially banal.
Brian
--
As a dreamer of dreams, and a travelin' man
I have chalked up many a mile.
I've read dozens of books about heroes and crooks
And I've learned much from both of their styles.
- J. Buffett
--
As a dreamer of dreams, and a travelin' man
I have chalked up many a mile.
I've read dozens of books about heroes and crooks
And I've learned much from both of their styles.
- J. Buffett
PatDOneill
>I don't understand where you get this speculation. Erik Larsen certainly
>seems to have as many fans as Peter David. That would indicate sales will
>probably not fluctuate that much (or may even rise) from where they are
>now.
>
>
The bulk of Larsen's popularity is based on his art, IMO (though I can't for
the life of me see what they like about it). At any rate, I suspect few of his
Image-based fans will run to Aquaman just for Larsen's writing.
Jamie Coville
On 17 Mar 1998 19:29:43 GMT, patdo...@aol.com (PatDOneill) wrote:
>In article <6em9e4$2...@panix3.panix.com>, fire...@panix.com (Elayne
>Wechsler-Chaput) writes:
>
>>I don't understand where you get this speculation. Erik Larsen certainly
>>seems to have as many fans as Peter David. That would indicate sales will
>>probably not fluctuate that much (or may even rise) from where they are
>>now.
>>
>>
>
>The bulk of Larsen's popularity is based on his art, IMO (though I can't for
>the life of me see what they like about it). At any rate, I suspect few of his
>Image-based fans will run to Aquaman just for Larsen's writing.
>
>Best, Pat
Pat, that is out and out bullshit. Most Larsen fans like the
story/dialog better than the art. Hell, many (if not most) say his art
was better when he first started doing Dragon.
Regards, | The History of Superhero Comic Books:
Jamie Coville | http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8580/
John Lorentz
Thesippel <thes...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19980316224...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
> This is a lot of talk for a book whose sales are going to plummet very
soon.
> Let's start the "Aquaman death watch". I'm guessing the last issue will
be
> #60.
>
I think you're optimistic.
NYSteve111
In article <350ee268...@gollum.kingston.net>,
jcoville@SPAM_FILTER.adan.kingston.net (Jamie Coville) writes:
>On 17 Mar 1998 19:29:43 GMT, patdo...@aol.com (PatDOneill) wrote:
>
>>The bulk of Larsen's popularity is based on his art, IMO (though I can't for
>>the life of me see what they like about it). At any rate, I suspect few of
his
>>Image-based fans will run to Aquaman just for Larsen's writing.
>>
>>Best, Pat
>
>Pat, that is out and out bullshit. Most Larsen fans like the
>story/dialog better than the art. Hell, many (if not most) say his art
>was better when he first started doing Dragon.
How is this statement less bullshit than Pat's. His is at least _labelled_ as
opinion. (yours is not though I suspect you know it is). Are you posturing this
as proof?
SteveWacker
thad a doria
Richard D. Bergstresser Jr.
Sean Med wrote:
>
> shut...@aol.com (ShutUpRob) wrote:
>
> >However, we're talking Eric Larsen, who has
> >incorporated into his work heavy-handed, immature attacks at peers
> >he doesn't like, most prominently slamming Byrne with his Next Men
> >parody-villains within the pages of Savage Dragon. This one crossed
> >over the line from parody into ad hominem attack.
>
My thoughts exactly.
Guy Gardner vs. Jim Shooter was hilarious.
And to be fair, PAD started it anyways. :P
--
Yes, I've finally resorted to a Spam block.
To respond, remove the letters BLOCK from my address.
Sorry for the inconvenience.
Rich.
Hosun Sir Lee
Edward Mathews <math...@is3.nyu.edu> writes:
: Sean Med (sea...@aol.com) wrote:
: : "Patrick Thompson" <patrick.h...@vanderbilt.edu> wrote:
: :
: : >PatDOneill wrote in message
: : >>Actions speak louder than words.
: : >
: : >
: : >Judge not lest ye be judged.
: :
: : Don't count your chickens before they're hatched.
: It's always darkest before the dawn.
The crow barks at midnight.
--
\\ \\ Hosun S. Lee * http://www.primenet.com/~holee/cjpriest/
\\-\\ Vote Mike Chary for favorite Rac.er in the Squiddies!!!!
( 0-0) ".....You were right. It really bothers me when you're right for
{_^_} whatever reason." - Christopher J. Priest.
Aaron S. Veenstra
> In article <199803171853...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, sea...@aol.com
> (Sean Med) writes:
>
> >"Patrick Thompson" <patrick.h...@vanderbilt.edu> wrote:
>
> >PatDOneill wrote in message
> >>>Actions speak louder than words.
> >
> >
> >>Judge not lest ye be judged.
>
> >Don't count your chickens before they're hatched.
People who live in glass houses should get dressed with the lights off.
Aaron
--
_ _ _
/ \ \ \ / / | asve...@mtu.edu
/ 0 \ aron \ \/ / eenstra | http://www.portup.com/~etchouse/
/_/ \_\ \__/ | graphic, web, multimedia design
David Crowe
PatDOneill <patdo...@aol.com> wrote:
: In article <6em9e4$2...@panix3.panix.com>, fire...@panix.com (Elayne
: Wechsler-Chaput) writes:
: >I don't understand where you get this speculation. Erik Larsen certainly
: >seems to have as many fans as Peter David. That would indicate sales will
: >probably not fluctuate that much (or may even rise) from where they are
: >now.
: The bulk of Larsen's popularity is based on his art, IMO (though I can't for
: the life of me see what they like about it). At any rate, I suspect few of his
If you can't see what they like about it, you'd better get some glasses.
There's the left reason and the right reason. And they're getting bigger
all the time...
: Image-based fans will run to Aquaman just for Larsen's writing.
Byrne once mentioned that sales moved by X thousand whenever he started
or stopped a book (the "Byrne Victims"). Is it possible to track that for
PAD, I wonder? Given that he started Soulsearchers, Aquaman and Supergirl
from the ground up, and wasn't a big name when he did Hulk... maybe not.
--
David "No Nickname" Crowe http://www.primenet.com/~jetman
So as we can see, the last twenty years have made the use of nonviolent,
snack-related solutions utterly useless. -Jim Smith
ShutUpRob
In article <19980317035...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, sea...@aol.com
(Sean Med) writes:
>shut...@aol.com (ShutUpRob) wrote:
>>However, we're talking Eric Larsen, who has
>>incorporated into his work heavy-handed, immature attacks at
>>peers he doesn't like, most prominently slamming Byrne with his Next
>>Men parody-villains within the pages of Savage Dragon. This one
>>crossed over the line from parody into ad hominem attack.
>Well, let's be fair. PAD and Byrne have done the same thing.
I don't consider mere parody and ridicule ad hominem attack.
The particular scatological viciousness of Larsen's Next Men
parody tipped the scales for me over into an attack.
-- Rob Jensen
ShutUpRob
In article <19980317090...@ladder03.news.aol.com>, shut...@aol.com
(ShutUpRob) writes:
[PAD said:]
>>My intention was not only for him to maintain his human form,
> You don't suppose you confused them when you brought up the
>subject of making Arthur a Water Elemental? =)
Darn it. By "them" I meant "You don't suppose you confused
the editors" rather than "You don't suppose you confused the
concepts."
HTH.
--Rob Jensen
ShutUpRob
In article <199803171853...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, sea...@aol.com
(Sean Med) writes:
>"Patrick Thompson" <patrick.h...@vanderbilt.edu> wrote:
>PatDOneill wrote in message
>>>Actions speak louder than words.
>
>
>>Judge not lest ye be judged.
>Don't count your chickens before they're hatched.
Don't eat at a restaurant located next to a pound . . . Arf!
-- Rob Jensen
ShutUpRob
In article <asveenst-170...@mac.portup.com>, asve...@mtu.edu (Aaron
Veenstra) writes:
>Don't eat the brown acid.
Don't eat the yellow snow.
andrew (MELBOURNE)
Aaron Veenstra (asve...@mtu.edu) wrote:
: k...@trdlnk.nukethispart.com (Ken) wrote:
: > >"Patrick Thompson" <patrick.h...@vanderbilt.edu> wrote:
: > >>PatDOneill wrote in message
: > >>>Actions speak louder than words.
: > >>Judge not lest ye be judged.
: > >Don't count your chickens before they're hatched.
: Don't eat the brown acid.
Don't judge a book by its cover story. (Wait... That's not right.)
--
Andrew Melbourne, melb...@sas.upenn.edu, http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~melbourn
-->>THEY DON'T HAVE SPORKS IN LONDON, BUT THEY *DO* HAVE KNORKS!<<--
"Hmm. This feels like a Ron Marz tries to go indy with art by Tom
Grummet, inked by Bill Sienkiewicz sort of life." -- me
Rellby55
> Don't eat the yellow snow.
>
>
Watch out where the huskies go
Edward Mathews
Hosun Sir Lee (ho...@primenet.com) wrote:
: Edward Mathews <math...@is3.nyu.edu> writes:
: : Sean Med (sea...@aol.com) wrote:
: : : "Patrick Thompson" <patrick.h...@vanderbilt.edu> wrote:
: : :
: : : >PatDOneill wrote in message
: : : >>Actions speak louder than words.
: : : >
: : : >
: : : >Judge not lest ye be judged.
: : :
: : : Don't count your chickens before they're hatched.
:
:
: The crow barks at midnight.
If you go clubbing after midnight, be sure to bring seals.
"Mr. Owl, how many cliches does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie
Pop in a thread drift?"
Ed (not sure what that meant) Mathews
Spooon
math...@is3.nyu.edu (Edward Mathews) wrote:
>Hosun Sir Lee (ho...@primenet.com) wrote:
>: Edward Mathews <math...@is3.nyu.edu> writes:
>: : Sean Med (sea...@aol.com) wrote:
>: : : "Patrick Thompson" <patrick.h...@vanderbilt.edu> wrote:
>: : :
>: : : >PatDOneill wrote in message
>: : : >>Actions speak louder than words.
>: : : >Judge not lest ye be judged.
>: : : Don't count your chickens before they're hatched.
>: : It's always darkest before the dawn.
>: The crow barks at midnight.
>
>If you go clubbing after midnight, be sure to bring seals.
A wasted mind is a terrible thing,
A terrible mind is a waste,
A (hive) mind is a terrible thing,
A waist is a terrible thing to mind,
A mind is a terrible thing to waste,
Re:SPOOONses are always welcome
Jim "Spooon" Henry
Spo...@juno.com
Hen...@uakron.edu
Jamie Coville
Well, first off I'm with the Savage Dragon mailing list (FAO), in
which we pretty much all say we read Savage Dragon for the story,
rather than the art. If you check out the letter pages in Savage
Dragon you'll find most of the people there feel the same.
While this isn't definitive proof, it's the closest thing we have.
But I should apologize to Pat, (Sorry Pat!) it's just with some of the
anti-Larsen assumptions I'm reading on here, I'm quick to attack.
Neil E. Orts
In article <19980315205...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
shut...@aol.com (ShutUpRob) wrote:
>
> [1] Those of you harpoon-haters that still exist -- admit it, you're in
> a minority now.
as if numbers makes it right
Sean Med
shut...@aol.com (ShutUpRob) wrote:
> I don't consider mere parody and ridicule ad hominem attack.
>The particular scatological viciousness of Larsen's Next Men
>parody tipped the scales for me over into an attack.
I haven't read it, so I'll take your word for that. But was it as bad
as Byrne's character assassination of Jim Shooter during his run
on Star Brand? He took over the comic for the express purpose
of slamming the guy, did he not? He's Larsen's role model, I'd
say.
Sean
Sean Med
"Richard D. Bergstresser Jr." <richBL...@erols.com> wrote:
>Guy Gardner vs. Jim Shooter was hilarious.
But not nearly as meanspirited as Byrne's run on Star Brand.
Sean
JohannaLD
From: t...@netcom.com (Tom Galloway)
>It is not any one single thing that
>results in my suspicions. It is a combination of *all* the ones I've
>mentioned.
My point is simply this:
I am going to believe a pro's statements on the record over
baseless "suspicions."
>Taking one in isolation in each of your replies and attacking it
>alone as being insufficient is just sloppy debating tactics.
What makes you think I'm trying to debate you? I'm making
fun of your lack of evidence.
>if anyone else were making the same comments you have,
>I'd respond the same way
With groundless personal attacks? For pointing out you
have no evidence? Good to know.
Johanna
Tom Galloway
In article <199803182135...@ladder01.news.aol.com> joha...@aol.com (JohannaLD) writes:
>From: t...@netcom.com (Tom Galloway)
>>It is not any one single thing that results in my suspicions. It is a
>>combination of *all* the ones I've mentioned.
>My point is simply this:
>I am going to believe a pro's statements on the record over baseless
"suspicions."
Uh huh. First off, the suspicions are hardly "baseless"; I explicitly stated
the several reasons I had for having them. Several times. My suspicions may
be wrong, but they're nowhere near "baseless". And you've yet to actually
counter or provide any information or evidence any of those reasons.
Second, the above is a statement so mindboggling that I'm wondering if
Johanna was replaced by a pod person posting under her name. Note that
it's not written that Johanna knows Larsen, considers him personally
trustworthy, knows from extended private conversation how he feels about
things, etc. as to why she chooses to dismiss wholesale suspicions based
on his actual behavior. Nope, it's because he's a pro.
Yep, kids, remember, according to Johanna, all pros are apparently always
trustworthy, while all people on-line apparently aren't.
tyg t...@netcom.com
Richard D. Bergstresser Jr.
ShutUpRob wrote:
>
> Aquaman now has a personality, thanks to PAD. Get used to it.
>
A) Aquaman had a personality at least as early as JLA Detroit.
B) It would be a lot easier to get used to if it was HIS personality
instead of Namor's.
C) Anyone else remember when Aquaman seemed like some one you could
respect or get along with?
Baked, Battered, and Fried Elmo
joha...@aol.com (JohannaLD) writes:
> I am going to believe a pro's statements on the record over
> baseless "suspicions."
First, and most importantly, pros got *no* special privelege with regard to
being trustworthy. None. They are no different than any other human being
in how often and why they may lie, cheat, steal, tell the truth, hurt
others, go out of their way to praise the efforts of someone they could
have taken advantage of, etc.
Second, Tom's firmly established a base in Larsen's previous behavior
for his suspicions. I am, frankly, incredulous that you will neither
acknowledge or address his points.
To reiterate:
o Eric Larsen has feuded with Peter David in the past.
+ Hostile gestures in person.
+ Hostile remarks in lettercols.
+ Hostile satires in text.
o Eric Larsen has not, to anyone's knowledge, had any serious
interest in pitching or working for the majors in the last five
years.
o All of a sudden, Peter David leaves two titles and Eric Larsen
pitches for both of them and no other titles (to anyone's
knowledge). So far, he's gotten one of them.
+ Moreover, Larsen has himself said that he had not been
following at least one of the titles.
One possible explanation is that Eric Larsen went after those two titles
to get something on Peter David, possibly by outdoing his performance
or trashing his work.
Possible factors against that interpretation:
o Larsen's flagship title had a lot in common with Hulk, so
pitching for Hulk makes sense.
Response: Doesn't explain Aquaman.
o Larsen's editor has said that Larsen does not intend to trash
Peter's work.
Response: Of *course* Larsen's editor would say that, regardless
of what Larsen's actual motives were, even if the editor actually
knew what Larsen's actual motives were.
Moreover, we have Larsen's own words (that he didn't follow
Aquaman) contradicting the editor's statement (that Larsen was
a fan of the title). This further establishes the editor's
unreliability as a source.
Now, I'm not going to say that Tom's explanation is the only possible
explanation, nor am I going to say that it's the correct explanation,
since only Larsen knows what his motives truly are.
Nonetheless, when assailing Tom's position, please do him the favor of
actually considering and addressing his points.
--
"You realize, of course, this means war."
--Bugs Bunny
elmo mor...@physics.rice.edu
http://www.bonner.rice.edu/morrow