Annual theme '98

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Rob Horine

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Jul 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/19/97
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A good theme for next years annuals should be a type of "inner crisis".
Show that everything is not supervillians and (un)natural disasters. Things
that you could do like mental breakdowns, health concerns, matters of the
heart, you know, stuff to show that the heros are just as human as they are.

any resopnse or comment.
--
Odo: "You would shoot a man in the back?"
Garek:"Yes, it is the safest way."


Bill Steinen

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Jul 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/19/97
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"Rob Horine" <syv...@msn.com> wrote:

> A good theme for next years annuals should be a type of "inner crisis".
>Show that everything is not supervillians and (un)natural disasters. Things
>that you could do like mental breakdowns, health concerns, matters of the
>heart, you know, stuff to show that the heros are just as human as they are.

>any resopnse or comment.

It could be interesting, but somehow I don't think that "Robin Gets
the Flu" or "Wonder Woman Visits the Psychologist" would turn that
many people on.

Bill

---------------------------------------------------------
"You may be immortal, but I can still do damage.
How would you like to spend eternity in five pieces?"
--Xena, Warrior Princess
---------------------------------------------------------


Martin Wirjadi

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Jul 20, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/20/97
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In <5qrk37$g...@camel1.mindspring.com> ste...@mindspring.com (Bill Steinen) writes:

>"Rob Horine" <syv...@msn.com> wrote:

>> A good theme for next years annuals should be a type of "inner crisis".
>>Show that everything is not supervillians and (un)natural disasters. Things
>>that you could do like mental breakdowns, health concerns, matters of the
>>heart, you know, stuff to show that the heros are just as human as they are.

>>any resopnse or comment.

>It could be interesting, but somehow I don't think that "Robin Gets
>the Flu" or "Wonder Woman Visits the Psychologist" would turn that
>many people on.

>Bill

Well, then, how about "A Day in the Life" theme? That would certainly be
interesting, to me, at least.

--
Martin Wirjadi
"I've had enough of reading things by neurotic, psychotic, pig-headed
politicians. All I want is the truth, just give me some truth."
John Lennon

Eichenburg

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Jul 20, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/20/97
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>It could be interesting, but somehow I don't think that "Robin >Gets the
Flu" or "Wonder Woman Visits the Psychologist" would >turn that many
people on.

>Bill

I don't know, One of my favorite comics of all time was when X-Factor had
individual sessions with Doc Samson (Issue 68? round there).

Great stuff.

-Eich

Luke!

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Jul 20, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/20/97
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How about:

"Stinky Crisis"- The heroes team up to fight a horrible odor.

"Sleep Disorder Disaster" - Some heroes just can't seem to get up in
the morning; others have insomia or take naps during fights.

"Alternate Reality Action"- all annuals take place in a parallel
universe exactly like the mainstream DCU, except everyone is 1/8"
taller (except the Atom, who is 1/96" taller).

"Kitty Calamity"-Everybody gets hairballs.

--
Luke- Email address intentionally screwy, but easily fixed.
SEE my poorly designed Web Page: http://www.csun.edu/~lg42537

Aaron Mojo

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Jul 21, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/21/97
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>"Kitty Calamity"-Everybody gets hairballs.

This isn't as funny as you may think... Bizarro brought some pals over
to my place a few years ago during the Hairball Crisis on the Bizarro
World... Was like my house was flooded with mucous-soaked tribbles...

-Aaron!

Duggy

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Jul 21, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/21/97
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On Sat, 19 Jul 1997, Bill Steinen wrote:
> "Rob Horine" <syv...@msn.com> wrote:

> > A good theme for next years annuals should be a type of "inner crisis".
> >Show that everything is not supervillians and (un)natural disasters. Things
> >that you could do like mental breakdowns, health concerns, matters of the
> >heart, you know, stuff to show that the heros are just as human as they are.

> It could be interesting, but somehow I don't think that "Robin Gets


> the Flu" or "Wonder Woman Visits the Psychologist" would turn that
> many people on.

Actually, hasn't Robin already had the 'Flu?

I think "A day in the life of..." would be an interesting Theme. Except
that like all of the themes it can't support 40? titles.

I'm still of the opinion that if they want to do the theme thing, then
have two themes.

---
- Dug.
---


Uncle Waltie

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Jul 21, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/21/97
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How about Tales of the Pre-Crisis Universe?

-walt

--
Homosuperior in my interior
But from the skin out i'm homosapien, too
-Pete Shelley

Bard Sinister

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Jul 21, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/21/97
to

Duggy wrote:
(Heavy Snippage)

> I think "A day in the life of..." would be an interesting Theme. Except
> that like all of the themes it can't support 40? titles.
>
> I'm still of the opinion that if they want to do the theme thing, then
> have two themes.

As much as it may gall me to admit this, I think marvel had the
right idea back in the early 90's. Do several smaller multi-parters,
tied into general groups. You didn't need to read 30-odd books to get
the story, you needed four. They were small enough to make a single,
coherent, big story; rather than an incoherent, rambling subplot through
a bunch of other books. There was room for some good backups. I would
really like to see DC play with that sort of story.

Eric Gimlin

Dave Roy

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Jul 21, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/21/97
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On Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:59:30 +1000, Duggy <sci-...@jcu.edu.au> wrote:

>On Sat, 19 Jul 1997, Bill Steinen wrote:
>> "Rob Horine" <syv...@msn.com> wrote:
>
>> > A good theme for next years annuals should be a type of "inner crisis".
>> >Show that everything is not supervillians and (un)natural disasters. Things
>> >that you could do like mental breakdowns, health concerns, matters of the
>> >heart, you know, stuff to show that the heros are just as human as they are.
>
>> It could be interesting, but somehow I don't think that "Robin Gets
>> the Flu" or "Wonder Woman Visits the Psychologist" would turn that
>> many people on.
>
>Actually, hasn't Robin already had the 'Flu?
>

>I think "A day in the life of..." would be an interesting Theme. Except
>that like all of the themes it can't support 40? titles.
>
>I'm still of the opinion that if they want to do the theme thing, then
>have two themes.

Since almost every title I can think of has had a book with a similar
theme, I don't know why it couldn't support 40 titles. As long as the
writer is good. There are certainly enough personal subplots in each
book that any good writer could make a story around that.

Heck, Devin Grayson's story in Batman Chronicles #5 could satisfy the
requirement.

Dave Roy


Bard Sinister

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Jul 22, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/22/97
to

Uncle Waltie wrote:
>
> How about Tales of the Pre-Crisis Universe?

Because that idea is far, far too good to ever get done in real life.

Eric Gimlin

shy...@ix.netcom.com

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Jul 22, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/22/97
to

In <uHLUsiH...@upnetnews02.moswest.msn.net>, "Rob Horine" <syv...@msn.com> writes:
> A good theme for next years annuals should be a type of "inner crisis".
>Show that everything is not supervillians and (un)natural disasters. Things
>that you could do like mental breakdowns, health concerns, matters of the
>heart, you know, stuff to show that the heros are just as human as they are.
>
>any resopnse or comment.
>--
>
>
>
>
>
Well, regardless of what we want the annuals to be I'm guessing the theme is
going to be Kingdom Come. which actually would be pretty cool, especially if
Alex Ross did the covers. Speaking of annuals, can anyone tell that this years
annuals are "pulp novels" besides the covers, they just seem like normal
stories. at least the one's I've read.

Keith....@ncl.ac.uk

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Jul 22, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/22/97
to

Bard Sinister wrote:

> As much as it may gall me to admit this, I think marvel had the
>right idea back in the early 90's. Do several smaller multi-parters,
>tied into general groups. You didn't need to read 30-odd books to get
>the story, you needed four. They were small enough to make a single,
>coherent, big story; rather than an incoherent, rambling subplot through
>a bunch of other books. There was room for some good backups. I would
>really like to see DC play with that sort of story.

This sounds like a good idea. Even after Legends came out I was
already sick of having massive all-character cross-overs that every year
dilute what was so special about Crisis. To have 'smaller scale' stories
featured in groups of say four annuals allows a greater degree of
character interaction rather than having dozens of heroes stand around in
the background waiting for their one line and one use of power.

If only TPTB would try this out by selecting about a dozen heroes and
running with them rather than trying (and failing) to use everyone at
once.

Keith
¬¬¬¬¬


Bard Sinister

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Jul 22, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/22/97
to

shy...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> Speaking of annuals, can anyone tell that this years
> annuals are "pulp novels" besides the covers, they just seem like normal
> stories. at least the one's I've read.

They've varied wildly from issue to issue. The Nightwing
annual had what felt like a very 'pulp-ish' plot, and the Superman
annual was great, with a very pulp plot and a incredible Doc Savage
tribute cover. Most of the others have been so-so, IMHO.

Eric Gimlin

Todd VerBeek, gwm

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Jul 22, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/22/97
to

>In <uHLUsiH...@upnetnews02.moswest.msn.net>, "Rob Horine" <syv...@msn.com> writes:
>> A good theme for next years annuals should be a type of "inner crisis".
>>Show that everything is not supervillians and (un)natural disasters. Things
>>that you could do like mental breakdowns, health concerns, matters of the
>>heart, you know, stuff to show that the heros are just as human as they are.

My pal shy...@ix.netcom.com said:
>Well, regardless of what we want the annuals to be I'm guessing the theme is
>going to be Kingdom Come. which actually would be pretty cool, especially if
>Alex Ross did the covers.

Could be interesting. The way things apparently are(n't) going with
Kingdom (the series), this could be either a substitute a lead-in for it.
It would be kind of a cross between the Armageddon, Elseworlds, and Dead
Earth annuals: what might your characters (or their successors) be doing
in the years leading up to Kingdom Come? But as this implies, it's not an
especially =new= idea. It'd probably sell better than the pulps, though.

>Speaking of annuals, can anyone tell that this years
>annuals are "pulp novels" besides the covers, they just seem like normal
>stories. at least the one's I've read.

The Flash annual was pretty obviously "pulp" romance, with narration by a
star-struck woman gushing about her (delusional) storybook romance with
Wally. The writing styles of the Superboy and Catwoman annuals were
fairly standard, I suppose, but the forgotten-land-of-the-dinosaurs and
raiders-of-the-lost-egyptian-tomb settings were pulp cliches.

Cheers, Todd
---
I'm an optimist: the glass is empty, but maybe =someday= it'll be half full.

Georgina Storey

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Jul 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/23/97
to

Hi.

shy...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> Speaking of annuals, can anyone tell that this years
> annuals are "pulp novels" besides the covers, they just seem like normal
> stories. at least the one's I've read.


I've just finished the Catwoman annual, and yep, it's definately
a pulp novel. Mummies coming to life, wizzened old men with sage
advice, lots of gore with ppls heads popping of and being set on
fire and imploding... not your average Catwoman read, that's for
sure.

Sadly, the writing and artwork was a little too akin to the original
pulp novels for my liking (ie rushed). It is apparent that nobody
who worked on this book is particuarly familiar with Catwoman's
character or mannerisms. They even missed the tongue-poking-out-
whilst-picking-a-lock which is so familiar now to Catwoman fans.
Most disappointing.

I haven't read any of the other Pulp Heros annuals; perhaps other
ppl will respond.

Regards,

:) Georgina Storey

<geor...@magna.com.au>

Eric Harding

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Jul 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/23/97
to

In article <33D3A7...@swbell.net>, etgi...@swbell.net wrote:
>Duggy wrote:
> (Heavy Snippage)

>> I think "A day in the life of..." would be an interesting Theme. Except
>> that like all of the themes it can't support 40? titles.
>>
>> I'm still of the opinion that if they want to do the theme thing, then
>> have two themes.
>
> As much as it may gall me to admit this, I think marvel had the
>right idea back in the early 90's. Do several smaller multi-parters,
>tied into general groups. You didn't need to read 30-odd books to get
>the story, you needed four. They were small enough to make a single,
>coherent, big story; rather than an incoherent, rambling subplot through
>a bunch of other books. There was room for some good backups. I would
>really like to see DC play with that sort of story.
>
>Eric Gimlin


Heh...how about this:

Have a story start in one of the annuals, where at the end the villain(s)
defeat the hero(ine). Have it run through 12 different annuals. The catch
is that the annuals it runs through are the annuals for the JLA members. Have
the final showdown come out in the JLA Annual.

Eric

----------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Harding
ome...@oz.net
For a web page you'll think sucks, try http://www.oz.net/~omegas
----------------------------------------------------------------

Duggy

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Jul 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/23/97
to

On Mon, 21 Jul 1997, Bard Sinister wrote:
> Duggy wrote:

> > I think "A day in the life of..." would be an interesting Theme. Except
> > that like all of the themes it can't support 40? titles.

> > I'm still of the opinion that if they want to do the theme thing, then
> > have two themes.

> As much as it may gall me to admit this, I think marvel had the
> right idea back in the early 90's. Do several smaller multi-parters,
> tied into general groups. You didn't need to read 30-odd books to get
> the story, you needed four. They were small enough to make a single,
> coherent, big story; rather than an incoherent, rambling subplot through
> a bunch of other books. There was room for some good backups. I would
> really like to see DC play with that sort of story.

Yeah, but the last 3 years DC have had theme annuals rather than
crossovers... and I would like to see them revert back...

Anyway, I read books that are parts of groups... so I'd have to not buy
certain annuals... or buy extra annuals... nah. Don't like it.

---
- Dug.
---


Duggy

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Jul 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/23/97
to

On 22 Jul 1997 shy...@ix.netcom.com wrote:

> Well, regardless of what we want the annuals to be I'm guessing the theme is
> going to be Kingdom Come. which actually would be pretty cool, especially if

> Alex Ross did the covers. Speaking of annuals, can anyone tell that this years


> annuals are "pulp novels" besides the covers, they just seem like normal
> stories. at least the one's I've read.

Nah, that was last year's theme... sorta.

See the theme were related to events:

Elseworlds... just before Zero-Hour (the alternate timelines)
Year One... just after Zero-Month (the #0 issues)
Legends of Dead Earth... Kingdom Come

OK, so not *really* that closely related, but I'm sure it was the
inspiration.

Let's just keep our figures crossed that the don't say "TANGENT ANNUALS"

---
- Dug.
---


Todd VerBeek, gwm

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Jul 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/23/97
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My pal Eric Harding said:
>Have a story start in one of the annuals, where at the end the villain(s)
>defeat the hero(ine). Have it run through 12 different annuals. The catch
>is that the annuals it runs through are the annuals for the JLA members. Have
>the final showdown come out in the JLA Annual.

Well, first you might want to give the Martian Manhunter (and whatever
other non-headliners will round out the roster) a series to =have= an
annual. {smile}

Scott Steubing

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Jul 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/23/97
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On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 15:19:54 GMT, ver...@bigfoot.com (Todd VerBeek,
gwm) wrote:

>My pal Eric Harding said:
>>Have a story start in one of the annuals, where at the end the villain(s)
>>defeat the hero(ine). Have it run through 12 different annuals. The catch
>>is that the annuals it runs through are the annuals for the JLA members. Have
>>the final showdown come out in the JLA Annual.
>
>Well, first you might want to give the Martian Manhunter (and whatever
>other non-headliners will round out the roster) a series to =have= an
>annual. {smile}

Hmm, I guess I must have missed the Doomsday series when it was on the
stands. :)

Seriously, not having an ongoing series hasn't stopped DC from giving
somebody an Annual.


<*> Scott Steubing
<*> ScottS...@worldnet.att.net
<*> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/2355

Babbler, Slayer, Xenite

Eric Harding

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Jul 26, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/26/97
to

In article <33e5208a...@news.zippo.com>, ver...@bigfoot.com (Todd VerBeek, gwm) wrote:
>My pal Eric Harding said:
>>Have a story start in one of the annuals, where at the end the villain(s)
>>defeat the hero(ine). Have it run through 12 different annuals. The catch
>>is that the annuals it runs through are the annuals for the JLA members. Have
>
>>the final showdown come out in the JLA Annual.
>
>Well, first you might want to give the Martian Manhunter (and whatever
>other non-headliners will round out the roster) a series to =have= an
>annual. {smile}


Dammit, if they can give characters who don't have books annuals before, they
can do it again, can't they? :)

Don Brinker's Delayed Evil Twin

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Jul 28, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/28/97
to

Bard Sinister <etgi...@swbell.net> wrote:

> As much as it may gall me to admit this, I think marvel had the
>right idea back in the early 90's. Do several smaller multi-parters,
>tied into general groups. You didn't need to read 30-odd books to get
>the story, you needed four. They were small enough to make a single,
>coherent, big story; rather than an incoherent, rambling subplot through
>a bunch of other books. There was room for some good backups. I would
>really like to see DC play with that sort of story.

Actually, I'd like this for the same reason I disliked when Marvel did
it:

It forced me to buy books I wouldn't otherwise.

Example? I've got a full run of PAD's Hulk *except* for the Annual
with the Return of The Defenders stuff. Why? I have no desire to
pick up 2-3 other Annuals not written by PAD just to get a full story.

Same goes for, say, a story corssing through GL, JLA, WW, and Flash.
I don't pick up two of those books. I don't *want* to pick up two of
those books. And these days, I'd probably just not pick up a book
rather than get only half of the story, so...

- Don
Who may not be getting many DC books with this Genesis nonsense coming
up. Time to hit the Indy racks, I guess...


Don Brinker's Delayed Evil Twin

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Jul 28, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/28/97
to

Duggy <sci-...@jcu.edu.au> wrote:

>I think "A day in the life of..." would be an interesting Theme. Except
>that like all of the themes it can't support 40? titles.

>I'm still of the opinion that if they want to do the theme thing, then
>have two themes.

Actually, I'd say it would be better to have one theme, but make it
*optional*. I mean, look at last years Annuals. Some of the best
ones (Starman and Aquaman, for example) just did a total end run
around the concept.

If an annual theme inspires creators to do a story fitting it,
terrific. If not, well, they can always do something else.

(Oh, and on a side note, am I the only one who dislikes giving the
Annual work to second-stringers and worse? I mean, sure, you
occasionally get pleasantly surprised (like Waid's Flash Annual while
Loebs was still regular writer) but by and large, the stroies are
substandard, IMHO)

- Don


Don Brinker's Delayed Evil Twin

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Jul 28, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/28/97
to

Duggy <sci-...@jcu.edu.au> wrote:


>On Mon, 21 Jul 1997, Bard Sinister wrote:
>> As much as it may gall me to admit this, I think marvel had the
>> right idea back in the early 90's. Do several smaller multi-parters,
>> tied into general groups. You didn't need to read 30-odd books to get
>> the story, you needed four. They were small enough to make a single,
>> coherent, big story; rather than an incoherent, rambling subplot through
>> a bunch of other books. There was room for some good backups. I would
>> really like to see DC play with that sort of story.

>Yeah, but the last 3 years DC have had theme annuals rather than


>crossovers... and I would like to see them revert back...

Ick. Look at the three groupings we've had:

<whenever DC started doing annuals >-1991: Nothing. Some books used
it as climaxes for storylines (Swamp Thing's an obvious example here)
while others used it to tell longer stories (like in the Superman
books). Writers had a fairly free hand here, which (IMHO) let them
tell better stories.

1991-1993: Crossovers. Armageddon 2001, Eclipso, Bloodlines. Gah.
An occasional gem (Kesels' Hawk and Dove, for example) but a lot of
mediocre or bad stories (just about all the Bloodlines).

1994-1997: Themes. Dead Earth. Year One. Elseworlds. Pulps. Like
I've said in another post, the best ones (again IMHO) are when the
creators just ignored the theme and told the stories they wanted to.

While I'm all for taking the shackles off the writers and letting them
tell the stories they want to, I personally think the crossovers led
to the worst stories of the lot.

- Don


Don Brinker's Delayed Evil Twin

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Jul 28, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/28/97
to

Keith....@ncl.ac.uk wrote:

>Bard Sinister wrote:

>> As much as it may gall me to admit this, I think marvel had the
>>right idea back in the early 90's. Do several smaller multi-parters,
>>tied into general groups. You didn't need to read 30-odd books to get
>>the story, you needed four. They were small enough to make a single,
>>coherent, big story; rather than an incoherent, rambling subplot through
>>a bunch of other books. There was room for some good backups. I would
>>really like to see DC play with that sort of story.

>This sounds like a good idea. Even after Legends came out I was

>already sick of having massive all-character cross-overs that every year
>dilute what was so special about Crisis. To have 'smaller scale' stories
>featured in groups of say four annuals allows a greater degree of
>character interaction rather than having dozens of heroes stand around in
>the background waiting for their one line and one use of power.

>If only TPTB would try this out by selecting about a dozen heroes and
>running with them rather than trying (and failing) to use everyone at
>once.

Actually, they did. Remember the "Seige of <mumble>" that ran through
Teen Titans, Green Lantern, and who knows what other books?

Remember the JLA/JLE/JLTF crossovers?

Remember the endless crossoverramas in New Titans/Deathstroke/Teem
Titans and whatever else?

For that matter, look at the Superbooks.

No thanks. I'll take my stories selfcontained as a rule...

- Don


Bard Sinister

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Jul 28, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/28/97
to

Don Brinker's Delayed Evil Twin wrote:

> Ick. Look at the three groupings we've had:

> <whenever DC started doing annuals >-1991: Nothing. Some books used
> it as climaxes for storylines (Swamp Thing's an obvious example here)
> while others used it to tell longer stories (like in the Superman
> books). Writers had a fairly free hand here, which (IMHO) let them
> tell better stories.

The Judas Contract being another obvious example. A mixed bag,
but at least there was more creative freedom.

> 1991-1993: Crossovers. Armageddon 2001, Eclipso, Bloodlines. Gah.
> An occasional gem (Kesels' Hawk and Dove, for example) but a lot of
> mediocre or bad stories (just about all the Bloodlines).

Aramgeddon 2001 was pretty fun until the end. Then again, we
only had 14 books, not 20 or 25 to deal with. And I've always liked
stories that show the future of the characters.

> 1994-1997: Themes. Dead Earth. Year One. Elseworlds. Pulps. Like
> I've said in another post, the best ones (again IMHO) are when the
> creators just ignored the theme and told the stories they wanted to.

Notice how most of these force out- of- conitnuity stories?
Dead Earth sets the record for 'what the heck' concept- unless the
writer decided to do an end run around the theme, like Legionaires or
Starman, they couldn't even use the stars of the title! What the heck
was that all about?

> While I'm all for taking the shackles off the writers and letting them
> tell the stories they want to, I personally think the crossovers led
> to the worst stories of the lot.

I would pick the themes for the worst stories, myself. The
crossovers at least had some tie to the DCU. Probably why the 'Pulp
Fiction' annuals are the first time since Eclipso I'm picking up a large
number of them. The stories at least connect to the regular title, if
not the theme, and I'm a sucker for the old-style DC bullet on the
cover.


Eric Gimlin

Todd VerBeek, gwm

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Jul 28, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/28/97
to

>>Bard Sinister wrote:
>>> As much as it may gall me to admit this, I think marvel had the
>>>right idea back in the early 90's. Do several smaller multi-parters,
>>>tied into general groups. You didn't need to read 30-odd books to get
>>>the story, you needed four. They were small enough to make a single,
>>>coherent, big story; rather than an incoherent, rambling subplot through
>>>a bunch of other books. There was room for some good backups. I would
>>>really like to see DC play with that sort of story.

>Keith....@ncl.ac.uk wrote:
>>This sounds like a good idea. Even after Legends came out I was
>>already sick of having massive all-character cross-overs that every year
>>dilute what was so special about Crisis. To have 'smaller scale' stories
>>featured in groups of say four annuals allows a greater degree of
>>character interaction rather than having dozens of heroes stand around in
>>the background waiting for their one line and one use of power.
>
>>If only TPTB would try this out by selecting about a dozen heroes and
>>running with them rather than trying (and failing) to use everyone at
>>once.

My pal Don Brinker's Delayed Evil Twin said:
>Actually, they did. Remember the "Seige of <mumble>" that ran through
>Teen Titans, Green Lantern, and who knows what other books?
>
>Remember the JLA/JLE/JLTF crossovers?
>
>Remember the endless crossoverramas in New Titans/Deathstroke/Teem
>Titans and whatever else?
>
>For that matter, look at the Superbooks.
>
>No thanks. I'll take my stories selfcontained as a rule...

So will I, please.

But what they were originally talking about was a crossover involving a
handful of =annuals=. That wouldn't bother me nearly as much, because
(unlike the crossovers you mention) it doesn't highjack [insert series you
read] for a three-month story involving [insert series you don't read].
The only problem is having to decide whether to read none of those handful
of annuals, or all of them.

And of course, if they were going to do a crossover involving four 64-page
annuals, it raises the question of why they don't just publish the durn
thing as a 256-page =book= with all four heroes' names splattered on the
cover, and hype it as a major graphic novel event.

Elayne Wechsler-Chaput

unread,
Jul 28, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/28/97
to

Don Brinker (dbri...@dont.spam.me.pobox.com) wrote:

: (Oh, and on a side note, am I the only one who dislikes giving the


: Annual work to second-stringers and worse? I mean, sure, you
: occasionally get pleasantly surprised (like Waid's Flash Annual while
: Loebs was still regular writer) but by and large, the stroies are
: substandard, IMHO)

First of all, I don't see the people having done many of this year's
Annuals as being "second stringers." Secondly, I disagree with your
assessment that this is a bad idea in any case. The regular writers have
enough to do without being stretched even thinner. Story quality
shouldn't suffer because the regular guy (or gal) isn't doing the Annual;
in fact, it's the job of the editor to make sure it *doesn't* suffer.

- Elayne
--
I am currently seeking an administrative assistant/secretarial position in
New York City (preferably Manhattan or Brooklyn). My resume can be found
at http://ezinfo.ucs.indiana.edu/~fchary/elayne.html - please e-mail me
for further information, including references.

Todd VerBeek, gwm

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Jul 28, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/28/97
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My pal Don Brinker's Delayed Evil Twin said:
><whenever DC started doing annuals >-1991: Nothing. Some books used
>it as climaxes for storylines (Swamp Thing's an obvious example here)
>while others used it to tell longer stories (like in the Superman
>books). Writers had a fairly free hand here, which (IMHO) let them
>tell better stories.
>
>1991-1993: Crossovers. Armageddon 2001, Eclipso, Bloodlines. Gah.
>An occasional gem (Kesels' Hawk and Dove, for example) but a lot of
>mediocre or bad stories (just about all the Bloodlines).

The A2001 annuals were less a "crossover" than a theme ("possible
futures") with framing scenes of Waverider meeting the hero. I've been
picking up these annuals at random when I run across them at cheap prices,
and enjoying them individually. I just ignore the meta-plot.

>1994-1997: Themes. Dead Earth. Year One. Elseworlds. Pulps. Like
>I've said in another post, the best ones (again IMHO) are when the
>creators just ignored the theme and told the stories they wanted to.

Cheers, Todd

Todd VerBeek, gwm

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Jul 28, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/28/97
to

My pal Don Brinker's Delayed Evil Twin said:
>Actually, I'd say it would be better to have one theme, but make it
>*optional*. I mean, look at last years Annuals. Some of the best
>ones (Starman and Aquaman, for example) just did a total end run
>around the concept.
>
>If an annual theme inspires creators to do a story fitting it,
>terrific. If not, well, they can always do something else.

I like this idea. Considering that Universe-wide crossovers are now being
handled on a "participation optional" basis, I'd hope that DC editorial
would consider this for the annual themes/crossovers as well.

>(Oh, and on a side note, am I the only one who dislikes giving the
>Annual work to second-stringers and worse? I mean, sure, you
>occasionally get pleasantly surprised (like Waid's Flash Annual while
>Loebs was still regular writer) but by and large, the stroies are
>substandard, IMHO)

Of course the reasons they do this are (1) the regular writers are too
busy, and/or (2) it gives new creators a chance to show what they can do.

Seeking out =good= talent to do a "fill-in" annual would solve (1), of
course, which is what I would encourage them to do when they can.
Examples of this would be Busiek & Ryan's "Dead Earth" SM:MoS annual or
Priest & Bright's "Elseworlds" SM:MoS annual.

Having new talent do =back-up= stories for the annuals would help satisfy
(2). (Given the lack of any "new talent showcase" and the difficulty and
fan-grousing of giving them fill-in issues of ongoing series, I'm
beginning to wonder where =else= we'll ever see their work.) And
sometimes it =does= work for new creators to do the annuals: Devin
Grayson's Nightwing and Catwoman "Pulps", for example.

Rob Hansen

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Jul 29, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/29/97
to

On Mon, 28 Jul 1997 04:11:36 GMT, dbri...@dont.spam.me.pobox.com (Don
Brinker's Delayed Evil Twin) wrote:


>(Oh, and on a side note, am I the only one who dislikes giving the
>Annual work to second-stringers and worse? I mean, sure, you
>occasionally get pleasantly surprised (like Waid's Flash Annual while
>Loebs was still regular writer) but by and large, the stroies are
>substandard, IMHO)

Sure are. Once upon a time, annuals were something special, but these
days they're almost always very substandard. This is why I don't buy
many any more.


Rob Hansen
================================================
My Home Page: http://www.fiawol.demon.co.uk/rob/
Feminists Against Censorship:
http://www.fiawol.demon.co.uk/FAC/

Duggy

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Jul 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/30/97
to

On Mon, 21 Jul 1997, Dave Roy wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:59:30 +1000, Duggy <sci-...@jcu.edu.au> wrote:

> >I think "A day in the life of..." would be an interesting Theme. Except
> >that like all of the themes it can't support 40? titles.

> >I'm still of the opinion that if they want to do the theme thing, then
> >have two themes.

> Since almost every title I can think of has had a book with a similar


> theme, I don't know why it couldn't support 40 titles. As long as the
> writer is good. There are certainly enough personal subplots in each
> book that any good writer could make a story around that.

> Heck, Devin Grayson's story in Batman Chronicles #5 could satisfy the
> requirement.

Yeah, but that was, what, 18 pages? With the annual theme you look at, I
don't know, 1800?

And look how much Elayne hated that story. Image Elayne 100 times more
annoyed.

Seriously though, the Pulp Annuals had like 5 sub-genres, and I only read
12 annuals, and I was bored... so, no I can't see it working.

---
- Dug.
---


Dugster

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Jul 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/30/97
to

On Mon, 28 Jul 1997, Don Brinker's Delayed Evil Twin wrote:
> Duggy <sci-...@jcu.edu.au> wrote:

> >On Mon, 21 Jul 1997, Bard Sinister wrote:

> >> As much as it may gall me to admit this, I think marvel had the
> >> right idea back in the early 90's. Do several smaller multi-parters,
> >> tied into general groups. You didn't need to read 30-odd books to get
> >> the story, you needed four. They were small enough to make a single,
> >> coherent, big story; rather than an incoherent, rambling subplot through
> >> a bunch of other books. There was room for some good backups. I would
> >> really like to see DC play with that sort of story.

> >Yeah, but the last 3 years DC have had theme annuals rather than


> >crossovers... and I would like to see them revert back...

^^^^^
the word, of course should have been "wouldn't"

> Ick. Look at the three groupings we've had:

> While I'm all for taking the shackles off the writers and letting them


> tell the stories they want to, I personally think the crossovers led
> to the worst stories of the lot.

Agreed.

---
- Dug.
---


Dugster

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Jul 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/30/97
to

On Mon, 28 Jul 1997, Todd VerBeek, gwm wrote:

> The A2001 annuals were less a "crossover" than a theme ("possible
> futures") with framing scenes of Waverider meeting the hero. I've been
> picking up these annuals at random when I run across them at cheap prices,
> and enjoying them individually. I just ignore the meta-plot.

Yeah? Try telling that to the Hawk supporters at feeding time... ;)

---
- Dug.
---


Elayne Wechsler-Chaput

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Jul 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/30/97
to

Duggy (sci-...@jcu.edu.au) wrote:
: On Mon, 21 Jul 1997, Dave Roy wrote:

: > On Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:59:30 +1000, Duggy <sci-...@jcu.edu.au> wrote:
: > >I think "A day in the life of..." would be an interesting Theme. Except
: > >that like all of the themes it can't support 40? titles.

: Yeah, but that was, what, 18 pages? With the annual theme you look at, I
: don't know, 1800?

: And look how much Elayne hated that story. Image Elayne 100 times more
: annoyed.

LOL! I didn't actively hate it, but I thought the pacing was lousy (I
think Devin's pacing has improved immensely since then), and if you're
going to do a "day in the life" story, or series of stories, your pacing
has to be spot-on. It doesn't work if you have 3+ pages of static
non-movement, then one page of slam-bang-pointless-fight, then end it, and
that's what I thought Devin's BATMAN CHRONICLES story did. You have to,
IMHO, mix up the pacing a little better. Have Dick and Donna *doing*
something while they reminisce. They could have reminisced while riding
around on his motorcycle (that's what they make rest stops for <g>)...

BLKSUPERMN

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Jul 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/30/97
to

How about annuals in which we learn how the villians percieve the hero? Or
maybe you can the 98 annuals totally unrelated to each other?


Don Brinker's Overwhelmed Evil Twin

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Aug 5, 1997, 3:00:00 AM8/5/97
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fire...@panix.com (Elayne Wechsler-Chaput) wrote:

>Don Brinker (dbri...@dont.spam.me.pobox.com) wrote:

>: (Oh, and on a side note, am I the only one who dislikes giving the
>: Annual work to second-stringers and worse? I mean, sure, you
>: occasionally get pleasantly surprised (like Waid's Flash Annual while

>: Loebs was still regular writer) but by and large, the stories are
>: substandard, IMHO)

>First of all, I don't see the people having done many of this year's
>Annuals as being "second stringers." Secondly, I disagree with your
>assessment that this is a bad idea in any case. The regular writers have
>enough to do without being stretched even thinner. Story quality
>shouldn't suffer because the regular guy (or gal) isn't doing the Annual;
>in fact, it's the job of the editor to make sure it *doesn't* suffer.

I agree on your last point. If we got the same level of story from
newcomers, I wouldn't have a problem. Thing is, in a lot of cases
we're *not* getting the same level of story. And that's a huge
problem.

See, in my opinion, while they're doing themes, an Annual is one of
*the* biggest points to draw in new readers (well, except for the
price tag, anyhow). And for any hope at all of this, you've *got* to
have a strong lead story. Backup stories? Sure, let the new guys
have their cut. Thing is, a lot of the stories (last year's Flash and
Impulse Annuals, and the two Superman books from the year before that
didn't have Byrne or Priest writing, for example) just weren't top
notch.

Now I understand that the industry needs to get fresh blood involved
somehow. I just wonder if there isn't a better way...

- Don

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