WAIDing thru Troubled Waters
doug hugo
Congratulations, folks! You debate and debate an author's work. The author then
posts comments of his own, clarifying things you may have missed in his work.
You then turn around and debate the author over things that he undoubtedly has
much more experience with/reference material on. In fact, many then go on to
rudely criticize the author. I really hope that Mark won't get so disgusted
that he won't just throw up his hands and not post here anymore. I wouldn't
blame him if he did, though.
Food For Thought
Sincerely,
Doug Hugo
hu...@ecn.purdue.edu
MacPherson, Donald
doug hugo <hugo> wrote:
>Congratulations, folks! You debate and debate an author's work. The author then
>posts comments of his own, clarifying things you may have missed in his work.
>You then turn around and debate the author over things that he undoubtedly has
>much more experience with/reference material on. In fact, many then go on to
>rudely criticize the author. I really hope that Mark won't get so disgusted
>that he won't just throw up his hands and not post here anymore. I wouldn't
>blame him if he did, though.
This is actually kinda funny, keeping in mind I believe doug's concern
is geniune, and not meant as ironic in light of past events.
doug, I share your concern. And don't worry, Waid isn't new to the
whole "attack" thing. He knows how to handle it (and leaving for a while is
a valid way to handle it).
I'll let someone else fill in the history of Waid and Usenet, if they
so desire...
Donald MacPherson
see you in Chicago, Mr. Waid
Douglas Limmer
"MacPherson, Donald" <don...@gov.nb.ca> wrote:
>doug hugo <hugo> wrote:
>>I really hope that Mark won't get so disgusted
>>that he won't just throw up his hands and not post here anymore.
> This is actually kinda funny, keeping in mind I believe doug's concern
>is geniune, and not meant as ironic in light of past events.
With all his various comings and goings, there are times when I
suspect that Mark Waid has fallen into Jusenkyo's "Cursed Spring of
Drowned Internet-hater".
Just keep the hot water handy. :-)
Douglas Limmer -- lim...@math.orst.edu
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
doug hugo (hugo) wrote:
: Congratulations, folks! You debate and debate an author's work. The author then
: posts comments of his own, clarifying things you may have missed in his work.
: You then turn around and debate the author over things that he undoubtedly has
: much more experience with/reference material on. In fact, many then go on to
: that he won't just throw up his hands and not post here anymore. I wouldn't
: blame him if he did, though.
Sadly, many people WOULD. And HAVE. Mark has been down this road before
with Usenet. I for one hope he stays this time-- I think his "Cranky Net
Hater" remarks have been very funny-- but I'm not holding my breath.
- Elayne
--
E-Mail me, the "Firehead Head," for more info about the official ()~~
Firesign Theatre newsletter, Four-Alarm FIRESIGNal, available via ##
snail mail or free online! "This replica... houses our guru, ##
Tiny Dr. Tim. Let's knock on the door and see if he's in..." _##_
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
MacPherson, Donald (don...@gov.nb.ca) wrote:
: doug, I share your concern. And don't worry, Waid isn't new to the
: whole "attack" thing. He knows how to handle it (and leaving for a while is
: a valid way to handle it).
Absolutely. No matter how much I might try to convince him otherwise. <g>
Everyone has different tolerance levels. Waid knows exactly how long it
takes until he gets fed up with Usenet, and he takes the high road-- he
leaves until he cools down. (Okay, sometimes he posts angrily THEN
leaves until he cools down, but that's quite understandable...)
Sometimes I wish *I* had this kind of strength...
: I'll let someone else fill in the history of Waid and Usenet, if they
: so desire...
Nope. <g>
Scott Hollifield
doug hugo <hugo> wrote:
>Congratulations, folks! You debate and debate an author's work. The author then
>posts comments of his own, clarifying things you may have missed in his work.
>You then turn around and debate the author over things that he undoubtedly has
>much more experience with/reference material on. In fact, many then go on to
>rudely criticize the author.
Rude criticism -- rudeness of any stripe, really -- is almost never
justified, but I really don't feel we should tiptoe around creators
when they're online. Debating with creators who don't mind their work
being questioned can be, and has been with some, a gratifying
net.experience.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Hollifield * sco...@cris.com * http://www.cris.com/~scotth
Len Leshin
Douglas Limmer wrote:
> With all his various comings and goings, there are times when I
> suspect that Mark Waid has fallen into Jusenkyo's "Cursed Spring of
> Drowned Internet-hater".
>
> Just keep the hot water handy. :-)
I imagine I speak for a lot of people when I respond thusly:
"Huh??"
--
Len L.
lle...@davlin.net
Mxyzptlk to Lois and Clark: "You're SUPPOSED ta get married! Heck,
I've already bought stock in Polybags!" --MOS #56
MacPherson, Donald
sco...@cris.com (Scott Hollifield) wrote:
>doug hugo <hugo> wrote:
>>Congratulations, folks! You debate and debate an author's work. The author then
>>posts comments of his own, clarifying things you may have missed in his work.
>>You then turn around and debate the author over things that he undoubtedly has
>>much more experience with/reference material on. In fact, many then go on to
>>rudely criticize the author.
>
>Rude criticism -- rudeness of any stripe, really -- is almost never
>justified, but I really don't feel we should tiptoe around creators
>when they're online. Debating with creators who don't mind their work
>being questioned can be, and has been with some, a gratifying
>net.experience.
I agree, Scott. While I can't stand it when pros are out and out
attacked, they shouldn't be "tiptoed" around either. Criticism is fine,
as long as it's constructive.
Donald MacPherson
wondering if his pans of the first two parts of "Identity Crisis"
qualifies as constructive criticism...
MacPherson, Donald
fire...@panix.com (Elayne Wechsler-Chaput) wrote:
>MacPherson, Donald (don...@gov.nb.ca) wrote:
>: I'll let someone else fill in the history of Waid and Usenet, if they
>: so desire...
>
>Nope. <g>
You sure? Even if I give you this virtual ten foot pole? ;-)
Donald MacPherson
psyched for Chicago...
The Reverend
>Douglas Limmer wrote:
>
>> With all his various comings and goings, there are times when I
>> suspect that Mark Waid has fallen into Jusenkyo's "Cursed Spring of
>> Drowned Internet-hater".
>>
>> Just keep the hot water handy. :-)
>
>I imagine I speak for a lot of people when I respond thusly:
>
>"Huh??"
It's a reference to the manga _Ranma 1/2_, the hero of which fell into the
"Cursed Spring of Drowned Girl" and now turns into a girl every time he's
splashed with cold water; dousing him with hot water turns him back into a
boy. Other characters in the story have fallen afoul of Cursed Springs of
Drowned Panda, Pig, Cat, etc. ad infinitum, with similar results.
Carl Fink
In article <31B481...@davlin.net>, Len Leshin <lle...@davlin.net> wrote:
>Douglas Limmer wrote:
>
>> With all his various comings and goings, there are times when I
>> suspect that Mark Waid has fallen into Jusenkyo's "Cursed Spring of
>> Drowned Internet-hater".
>>
>> Just keep the hot water handy. :-)
>
>I imagine I speak for a lot of people when I respond thusly:
>
>"Huh??"
Read RANMA 1/2 from Viz (in this country). Get the first graphic
novel. All will be explained, and also you'll laugh so hard you'll
annoy the neighbors.
--
Carl Fink ca...@panix.com madsci...@genie.com
Dueling Modems, Inc. http://www.sfrt.com/sfrt/
". . . stories have to end. It's what gives them meaning." -Neil Gaiman
fire...@panix.com
doug hugo (hugo) wrote:
: Congratulations, folks! You debate and debate an author's work. The
author then
: posts comments of his own, clarifying things you may have missed in
his work.
: You then turn around and debate the author over things that he
undoubtedly has
: much more experience with/reference material on. In fact, many then
go on to
disgusted
: that he won't just throw up his hands and not post here anymore. I
wouldn't
: blame him if he did, though.
Sadly, many people WOULD. And HAVE. Mark has been down this road
before
with Usenet. I for one hope he stays this time-- I think his "Cranky
Net
Hater" remarks have been very funny-- but I'm not holding my breath.
- Elayne
fire...@panix.com
MacPherson, Donald (don...@gov.nb.ca) wrote:
: doug, I share your concern. And don't worry, Waid isn't new to
the
: whole "attack" thing. He knows how to handle it (and leaving for a
while is
: a valid way to handle it).
Absolutely. No matter how much I might try to convince him otherwise.
<g>
Everyone has different tolerance levels. Waid knows exactly how long
it
takes until he gets fed up with Usenet, and he takes the high road-- he
leaves until he cools down. (Okay, sometimes he posts angrily THEN
leaves until he cools down, but that's quite understandable...)
Sometimes I wish *I* had this kind of strength...
: I'll let someone else fill in the history of Waid and Usenet,
if they
: so desire...
Nope. <g>
- Elayne
Johanna Draper
In article <31B481...@davlin.net>, Len Leshin <lle...@davlin.net> wrote:
>Douglas Limmer wrote:
>> With all his various comings and goings, there are times when I
>> suspect that Mark Waid has fallen into Jusenkyo's "Cursed Spring of
>> Drowned Internet-hater".
>> Just keep the hot water handy. :-)
>
>I imagine I speak for a lot of people when I respond thusly:
>"Huh??"
Ranma 1/2 allusion. Young boy turns into girl when he gets wet because he
fell into a cursed spring. Hot water turns him back. Fun stuff.
Johanna
--
Johanna Draper * dan...@aurora.cis.upenn.edu * Comi...@aol.com
"I have always liked the idea of Superman because I have always liked the
idea that there is one person in the world who doesn't do bad things. And
that there is one person in the world who is able to fly." -- D. Coupland
The Flash
Doug Hugo wrote:
>>Congratulations, folks! You debate and debate an author's work. The author then
posts comments of his own, clarifying things you may have missed in his work.
You then turn around and debate the author over things that he undoubtedly has
much more experience with/reference material on. In fact, many then go on to
rudely criticize the author. I really hope that Mark won't get so disgusted
that he won't just throw up his hands and not post here anymore. I wouldn't
blame him if he did, though.
Food For Thought
Sincerely,
Doug Hugo
hu...@ecn.purdue.edu<<
It's called OVER-analysis, Doug. It's something I hated in English class in college and high school. You analyze and question ever=
ything to death and "find" things in a story that aren't there.
It's funny that people are still trying to guess where Waid is taking Kingdom Come and The Flash -- I gave up trying to do that long=
ago and am going along for the ride... :)
What's more disappointing is some people apparently are NOT happy and think they can do better and would resort to tactics that are =
questionable (resurrecting Barry Allen is one of the favorite flavors of the month, but I don't think it would ultimately work -- th=
is character has SEVERE flaws I've talked about before). Some of the same have tried to tar and feather Waid with plagiarism charge=
s and ridiculous nonsense like that...
Yes, I DO wonder why ANYONE writing comics would come into the UseNet groups at the risk of having this shit done to them... Very g=
ood points, Doug.
Katharine Martin
Doug Hugo wrote:
>Congratulations, folks! You debate and debate an author's work. The
>author then posts comments of his own, clarifying things you may have
>missed in his work. You then turn around and debate the author over things
>that he undoubtedly has much more experience with/reference material on.
>In fact, many then go on to rudely criticize the author. I really hope that
>Mark won't get so disgusted that he won't just throw up his hands and not
>post here anymore. I wouldn't blame him if he did, though.
He's already done that (*counts*) twice. Usenet, says she, understating
the case, is not Mark Waid's favorite venue. His temper seems to escalate
whilst on here, and then we have the arrogant Usenetters, which doesn't
help the problem much, either. *Shrug*
BY the way, Doug, since you're here and all... Why don't you ever quote
the context of what you're responding to in your posts?
--
Kate Martin jul...@haven.boston.ma.us k...@gnu.ai.mit.edu
"The house of delusions is cheap to build, but drafty to live in." -- Houseman
"Whatever you can do, or dream you can do, begin it. There is genius,
power and magic in boldness." -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Richard Iorio II
Hello,
I have been reading this debate since the start and let me say
this: Shut the hell up and get a life.
Moore wrote Twilight with few people knowing it. Ross outlined
Kingdoom Come, and DC had Waid help. Peter David could not write
himself out of a paperbag (read Hulk, hey kids I just started a new
storyline. Its the same thing I wrote six years ago, but I changed the
names this time.)
Waid did not copy Moore, and he did not copy David. Hell, David
would be lucky if he had someone swip from him.
Get a life, and stop worrying about the needless things in life.
My $0.02 worth,
Richard
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
Richard Iorio II (rich...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: Hello,
Good post, Richard, except the "DC had Waid help" part. As I understand
it, the outline was pretty much Alex's idea, but KINGDOM COME is a
collaborative project. Waid was involved from the beginning.
Richard Iorio II
>Good post, Richard, except the "DC had Waid help" part. As I
understand
>it, the outline was pretty much Alex's idea, but KINGDOM COME is a
>collaborative project. Waid was involved from the beginning.
>
>- Elayne
Finger tied,
Richard (I just bought my last marvel book today, and boy do I feel
better)