Xero cancelled
Tom Galloway
According to Mania's Daily Buzz news column, Priest says that DC has
cancelled Xero with #12 being the last issue.
tyg t...@netcom.com
EricHod
>According to Mania's Daily Buzz news column, Priest says that DC has cancelled
Xero with #12 being the last issue.
>
>
Of course. I'm sure that the fact that I loved it, killed it.
Mario Di Giacomo
Tom Galloway wrote:
>
> According to Mania's Daily Buzz news column, Priest says that DC has
> cancelled Xero with #12 being the last issue.
>
Moment of silence. :-(
Dave Van Domelen
Not to impugn Mania or anything, but I'll withhold wailing and tearing
of garments until I get the information direct from Priest or a DC staffer in
a position to know.
Dave Van Domelen, hears Arby's is hiring Closers, though....
Mark Fossen
On Mon, 20 Oct 1997 19:53:13 GMT, t...@netcom.com (Tom Galloway)
wrote:
>According to Mania's Daily Buzz news column, Priest says that DC has
>cancelled Xero with #12 being the last issue.
>
>tyg t...@netcom.com
No! Damn it....
I'll attempt something more cogent later. Right now I'm just too
pissed off...
Mark A. Fossen
"Serenity Now!"
Denise L. Voskuil
On Mon, 20 Oct 1997 19:53:13 GMT, t...@netcom.com (Tom Galloway) wrote:
>According to Mania's Daily Buzz news column, Priest says that DC has
>cancelled Xero with #12 being the last issue.
Dammit, Xero is the only regular title I read from DC, and the only
reason I kept looking at their section in Previews lately. It's
intelligent, funny, suspenseful, and emotional - well-written and
well-drawn all around. *sigh* This sucks.
- Denise
--
Denise Voskuil - dvos...@mcs.com
http://www.mcs.net/~dvoskuil/
Bala Menon
Dave Van Domelen <dva...@eyrie.org> wrote in article
<62h0ig$t...@eyrie.org>...
> Not to impugn Mania or anything, but I'll withhold wailing and
tearing
> of garments until I get the information direct from Priest or a DC
staffer in
> a position to know.
It's direct, Dave. I got word of this from Priest a while ago. :-(
--
Bala Menon (b.m...@worldnet.att.net)
T. Troy McNemar, Esq.
Previously, t...@netcom.com (Tom Galloway) wrote:
> According to Mania's Daily Buzz news column, Priest says that DC has
> cancelled Xero with #12 being the last issue.
Aw, crap.
--
T. Troy McNemar, Esq. Tro...@indirect.com
"Etov 'on' no yrtsudni.scimoc.stra.cer!"
--Zatanna the concerned rac*'er
Favorite comic of the week: LEGIONNAIRES #55
Runner-up: UNLIMITED ACCESS #1
LLL!
Bard Sinister
T. Troy McNemar, Esq. wrote:
> Previously, t...@netcom.com (Tom Galloway) wrote:
> > According to Mania's Daily Buzz news column, Priest says that DC has
> > cancelled Xero with #12 being the last issue.
> Aw, crap.
My thoughts exactly. Besides our continued efforts to push the
book whenever we can, what can we do to save it or get it brought back?
Assuming, of course, that Priest lets Xer0 survive issue #12.
Eric Gimlin
Jess Nevins
ALBERT B. CHING wrote:
>
> t...@netcom.com (Tom Galloway) wrote:
>
> >According to Mania's Daily Buzz news column, Priest says that DC has
>
> >cancelled Xero with #12 being the last issue.
>
>
> Anyway, this sucks. Even though I don't read XER0. I was always
> planning on checking it out, and now it seems a bit moot. Maybe
> if I get a lot of cash one day I'll pick up all 12 issues.
Perhaps if those folks who'd been planning on checking it out,
and never did, had checked it out, they'd have seen what a good
book it was, and kept buying it. Which would have driven its
circulation up (which would have required, admittedly, a lot
of "I meant to buy it" folks), and kept it viable.
jess
Spooon
"Bala Menon" <b.m...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>
>Dave Van Domelen <dva...@eyrie.org> wrote in article
><62h0ig$t...@eyrie.org>...
>> Not to impugn Mania or anything, but I'll withhold wailing and
>tearing
>> of garments until I get the information direct from Priest or a DC
>staffer in
>> a position to know.
>
>It's direct, Dave. I got word of this from Priest a while ago. :-(
>
>
NOOOOOOOOO! Why oh why? At least tell me this allows Priest to take
Xer0 to Hollywood now. Or at least to Acclaim.
Re:SPOOONses are always welcome
Spooon, who sometimes goes by the name James R. Henry
Spo...@juno.com
Hen...@uakron.edu
Robert Smithers, { k...@gnc.net and k...@badlands.globe-net.net },
Tom Clark { TClar...@aol.com }, and
Jason Pruitt ( prui...@esva.net ) have been gullib.. uh, kind and
generous enough to offer my reviews a home on the net.
Their individual web pages are located, respectively, at:
http://gnc.net/~kds/review.htm
http://www.tiac.net/users/sal/comicflashes/comicmap.html.
http://www.jason-world.com/
Brian Hance
tro...@indirect.com (T. Troy McNemar, Esq.) wrote:
>Previously, t...@netcom.com (Tom Galloway) wrote:
>> According to Mania's Daily Buzz news column, Priest says that DC has
>> cancelled Xero with #12 being the last issue.
>Aw, crap.
You have no idea. Friday, while trolling the racks at All About, I
see Xero #7. Since it's Priest, and he said that #7 would be a good
jumping on point for new readers, I pick it up. I grab my bag and go
out to my car. As per routine, I open up the stash to check
everything out. Xero is on top, so I crack it open and start reading.
After finishing it for the second time, I put it back in my bag and
walk back into the store and buy #'s 1 to 6.
Xero is the best new series I've read since, well probably
Quantum&Woody. Xero is just too cool. It's like Tom Clancy in
spandex.
And now it's canceled.
Shit.
Brian Hance * http://www.primenet.com/~bhance * bha...@primenet.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------
"The jesters, jokers and clowns were going about their business,
getting stuck in doorways on the way. There was much pushing and
shoving and honking of noses and falling of prats. It was a scene
to make a happy man slit his wrists on a fine spring day."
Terry Pratchett from "Men at Arms"
Dwight Williams
Tom Galloway (t...@netcom.com) writes:
> According to Mania's Daily Buzz news column, Priest says that DC has
> cancelled Xero with #12 being the last issue.
Damn.
I am NOT happy. At all.
--
Dwight Williams(ad...@freenet.carleton.ca) -- Orleans, Ontario, Canada
Jim Smith
In article <344d033f...@news.mcs.net>,
dvos...@mcs.com (Denise L. Voskuil) wrote:
>
> On Mon, 20 Oct 1997 19:53:13 GMT, t...@netcom.com (Tom Galloway) wrote:
> >cancelled Xero with #12 being the last issue.
>
> reason I kept looking at their section in Previews lately. It's
> intelligent, funny, suspenseful, and emotional - well-written and
> well-drawn all around.
Ah, but there's always STEEL, Denise. I don't mean to stomp all over
XER0's possible grave to hype my favorite book [1], but anyone who likes
that series at least ought to give John Irons a try. I can't guarantee
you'll like it, since I see vast differences between 'em, and my brother
never did seem to fully appreciate XER0, but c'mon--at least give it a
shot.
STEEL is intelligent, funny, and emotional (it could be suspensful if we
all twisted Priest's ears a bit); it's well-written and somewhat
well-drawn. And at $2.50 a pop as of December, you can get that "I have
to pay HOW much for my favorite indie book?" feeling from a mainstream
title! STEEL has everything!
[1] Actually, that's precisely what I mean. But I feel verrrry guilty
about it.
Jim Smith
http://www.wworld.com/users/5smith/jim/
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Tim Serpas
Bradly E. Peterson <SPAMBLO...@fastlane.net> wrote:
>PRIEST! Since you own the property, will you be shopping it
>around to other companies, like Image, Caliber or Dark Horse?
I'll second that. Black and white bi-monthly from Caliber.
Only you'll have to jump ship for Image after about 5 issues.
Tim Serpas
wre...@io.com
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
Tom Galloway (t...@netcom.com) wrote:
: According to Mania's Daily Buzz news column, Priest says that DC has
: cancelled Xero with #12 being the last issue.
This, alas, comes as no surprise. Wish they'd given it more of a
spotlight at the beginning, though, especially with that web page.
Any word on how sales have been?
- Elayne
--
"Very few people possess true artistic ability. It is therefore both
unseemly and unproductive to irritate the situation by making an effort.
If you have a burning, restless urge to write or paint, simply eat
something sweet and the feeling will pass." - Fran Lebowitz
Dwight Williams
Brian Hance (bha...@primenet.com) writes:
> tro...@indirect.com (T. Troy McNemar, Esq.) wrote:
>
>>Previously, t...@netcom.com (Tom Galloway) wrote:
>
>>> According to Mania's Daily Buzz news column, Priest says that DC has
>>> cancelled Xero with #12 being the last issue.
>
>>Aw, crap.
>
> You have no idea. Friday, while trolling the racks at All About, I
> see Xero #7. Since it's Priest, and he said that #7 would be a good
> jumping on point for new readers, I pick it up. I grab my bag and go
> out to my car. As per routine, I open up the stash to check
> everything out. Xero is on top, so I crack it open and start reading.
>
> After finishing it for the second time, I put it back in my bag and
> walk back into the store and buy #'s 1 to 6.
>
> Xero is the best new series I've read since, well probably
> Quantum&Woody. Xero is just too cool. It's like Tom Clancy in
> spandex.
>
> And now it's canceled.
>
> Shit.
While not agreeing with the language used, I definitely share the
sentiment behind it. I was really starting to get some serious kicks and
some serious understanding out of this whole thing. It was...no, *IS* fun
to read.
I don't really want it ended. Not this soon, regardless of the marching
orders Mr. Thorsland has been given to pass to Priest and Crisscross.
Besides, I want that Chase/XerO crossover to happen, still.
Jess Nevins
The Zen Froglet wrote:
>
> Jess Nevins wrote:
> >
> > ALBERT B. CHING wrote:
> > >
> > > t...@netcom.com (Tom Galloway) wrote:
> > >
> > > >According to Mania's Daily Buzz news column, Priest says that DC has
> > >
> > > >cancelled Xero with #12 being the last issue.
> > >
> > >
> > > Anyway, this sucks. Even though I don't read XER0. I was always
> > > planning on checking it out, and now it seems a bit moot. Maybe
> > > if I get a lot of cash one day I'll pick up all 12 issues.
> >
> > Perhaps if those folks who'd been planning on checking it out,
> > and never did, had checked it out, they'd have seen what a good
> > book it was, and kept buying it. Which would have driven its
> > circulation up (which would have required, admittedly, a lot
> > of "I meant to buy it" folks), and kept it viable.
>
> anyway, and all the house ads kinda sucked and no-one got interested
> because no real effort was made to promote this piece. Hell I didn't see
> the homeboy in any other DC book I read! So why blame people for not
> picking it up. Why not blame DC for not making it look intersting enough
> to pick up? Now Aztek, there's an unhappy case, I thought his house ads
> were great!(ps.I thought the same on the book) But then again he was
> cancelled too, I guess it just depends on the li'l peoples tastes!
Oh, I blame DC, too; it's just that the people who thought it was
interesting, but didn't buy it, shouldn't complain about it
being cancelled too loudly, since they weren't willing to put
their money where their mouth was.
jess
Pariah
In article <344C63...@ix.netcom.com>, Jess says...
>
>ALBERT B. CHING wrote:
>>
>> t...@netcom.com (Tom Galloway) wrote:
>>
>> >According to Mania's Daily Buzz news column, Priest says that DC has
>>
>> >cancelled Xero with #12 being the last issue.
>>
>> And he didn't tell US first?!?!? Grrr...
>>
>> Anyway, this sucks. Even though I don't read XER0. I was always
>> planning on checking it out, and now it seems a bit moot. Maybe
>> if I get a lot of cash one day I'll pick up all 12 issues.
>
>Perhaps if those folks who'd been planning on checking it out,
>and never did, had checked it out, they'd have seen what a good
>book it was, and kept buying it. Which would have driven its
>circulation up (which would have required, admittedly, a lot
>of "I meant to buy it" folks), and kept it viable.
>
While I am sorry to see such a title go (because apparently it was a phenomenal
title)... I got issue #1 and it really didn't do anything for me..
Pariah
The Zen Froglet
Jess Nevins wrote:
>
> ALBERT B. CHING wrote:
> >
> > t...@netcom.com (Tom Galloway) wrote:
> >
> > >According to Mania's Daily Buzz news column, Priest says that DC has
> >
> > >cancelled Xero with #12 being the last issue.
> >
> > And he didn't tell US first?!?!? Grrr...
> >
> > Anyway, this sucks. Even though I don't read XER0. I was always
> > planning on checking it out, and now it seems a bit moot. Maybe
> > if I get a lot of cash one day I'll pick up all 12 issues.
>
> Perhaps if those folks who'd been planning on checking it out,
> and never did, had checked it out, they'd have seen what a good
> book it was, and kept buying it. Which would have driven its
> circulation up (which would have required, admittedly, a lot
> of "I meant to buy it" folks), and kept it viable.
Hmmm, howabout if the idea was never very interesting to an outsider
anyway, and all the house ads kinda sucked and no-one got interested
because no real effort was made to promote this piece. Hell I didn't see
the homeboy in any other DC book I read! So why blame people for not
picking it up. Why not blame DC for not making it look intersting enough
to pick up? Now Aztek, there's an unhappy case, I thought his house ads
were great!(ps.I thought the same on the book) But then again he was
cancelled too, I guess it just depends on the li'l peoples tastes!
Buh-bye!
Edward Mathews
Tom Galloway (t...@netcom.com) wrote:
: According to Mania's Daily Buzz news column, Priest says that DC has
: cancelled Xero with #12 being the last issue.
: tyg t...@netcom.com
There is no justice.
Ed (harumph) Mathews
*****
**-----
* ---
-
Aaron S. Veenstra
In article <344ccbb4...@news.crossover.com>, kmar...@crossover.com wrote:
> The one-year
> failure rate is somewhere around 80%.
80%, are you sure? That sounds a little high. In the December PREVIEWS,
there are 11 series introduced since Zero Hour that are at or beyond #12,
and the only one *at* #12 is really #27 (JACK KIRBY'S FOURTH WORLD). I
can think of at least one title, EXTREME JUSTICE, which came after Zero
Hour, lastest more than a year, and has since been cancelled, while only
six come to mind that haven't lastest past #12: TAKION, AZTEK, SCARE
TACTICS, BOOK OF FATE, NIGHT FORCE and XER0.
Aaron
--
Looking for high quality mind control software for your Mac?
Check out OpenMind 1.0! A demo is available from Etc. House
Productions at http://www.portup.com/~etchouse/openmind/.
MikeGold
Elayne asks:
>Any word on how sales have been?
About as good as could be expected with that level of promotion. I respect
they're holding on to so many titles for a dozen issues, but those books
simply will not find an audience unless you promote them solidly and
repeatedly. I believe #7 was a jumping on point; it should have received some
noise. Not just a couple extra inches in the Diamond catalog -- that's no way
to expand the audience.
And without audience expansion, the whole medium is doomed.
-- Mike Gold
Dwight Williams
Agreed, sir. The ball was dropped big-time here somewheres. I know that
I'd been trying to do my part with the NCF Comics SIG and my APA
affiliation...but it would seem to not have been enough. :(
Nick Eden
>In article <344ccbb4...@news.crossover.com>, kmar...@crossover.com wrote:
>
>> The one-year
>> failure rate is somewhere around 80%.
>
>80%, are you sure? That sounds a little high. In the December PREVIEWS,
>there are 11 series introduced since Zero Hour that are at or beyond #12,
>and the only one *at* #12 is really #27 (JACK KIRBY'S FOURTH WORLD). I
>can think of at least one title, EXTREME JUSTICE, which came after Zero
>Hour, lastest more than a year, and has since been cancelled, while only
>six come to mind that haven't lastest past #12: TAKION, AZTEK, SCARE
>TACTICS, BOOK OF FATE, NIGHT FORCE and XER0.
Primal Force, Manhunter, Fate, Rebels.
In fact Starman was the only successful Zero Hour launch.
-------------------------------------------------------
Moon Wars! Gloranthan Roleplaying with Star Wars Rules
http://www.pheasnt.demon.co.uk/Moon2.html
Spamblock: Replace DOT with . to reply
Crisper Than Thou
In article <tygEID...@netcom.com>, Tom Galloway <t...@netcom.com> wrote:
>According to Mania's Daily Buzz news column, Priest says that DC has
>cancelled Xero with #12 being the last issue.
I'm sure I'm not the only one having the "what's the use of being told
how good something is, and trying it, and finding out that everyone's
right, if they're going to cancel it?" experience. *sigh*
--The Elder Dan
--
The government can take everything but your paranoia.
Crisper Than Thou
Dwight Williams <ad...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote:
>
>Besides, I want that Chase/XerO crossover to happen, still.
Well, first you have to read Chase and decide that you like it. Depressingly
enough, my first thought upon reading tyg's post (beating out the damn-I-
was-just-discovering-this thought) was "that'll probably be us in six months
or a year".
However, plenty of characters have only found their audience *after* their
solo book failed for lack of sales (Booster Gold being the classic example).
Hopefully, XerO will get his chance down the road.
Scott Matieshin
On Wed, 22 Oct 1997, Nick Eden wrote:
> >> The one-year
> >> failure rate is somewhere around 80%.
> >
> >80%, are you sure? That sounds a little high. In the December PREVIEWS,
> >there are 11 series introduced since Zero Hour that are at or beyond #12,
> >and the only one *at* #12 is really #27 (JACK KIRBY'S FOURTH WORLD). I
> >can think of at least one title, EXTREME JUSTICE, which came after Zero
> >Hour, lastest more than a year, and has since been cancelled, while only
> >six come to mind that haven't lastest past #12: TAKION, AZTEK, SCARE
> >TACTICS, BOOK OF FATE, NIGHT FORCE and XER0.
>
> Primal Force, Manhunter, Fate, Rebels.
>
Mister Miracle (7 issues), Firebrand (8 or 9 issues?)
> In fact Starman was the only successful Zero Hour launch.
And speaking of Starman:
How's that one doing, sales wise? I get the impression that it's stature,
amongst racdc readers at least, has slipped a bit, mostly due to
Robinson's handling of GA characters. I still find the series enjoyable,
but it's not as high on my 'immediate read' pile as it was a
year-and-a-half ago.
Anyone else wish he'd (JR) do more Firearm material?
Scott
Aaron S. Veenstra
In article <34538b2e...@news.zippo.com>, ver...@bigfoot.com (Todd
VerBeek, gwm) wrote:
> But the fact that the book is being cancelled doesn't mean that the issues
> that were (and will still be) published aren't worth picking up and
> reading. Granted, reading the first twelve issues of Xero would be a
> =better= experience if issues #13-50 were also available, but they're
> still pretty good in and of themselves (safely assuming the last few are
> up to the same standard, of course).
And this is to say nothing of the possibility that it returns. Priest
owns XER0 after all, so it could return in any number of places.
Aaron, doesn't want to hear "The newest edition to the Awesome family..."
Todd VerBeek, gwm
>In article <tygEID...@netcom.com>, Tom Galloway <t...@netcom.com> wrote:
>>According to Mania's Daily Buzz news column, Priest says that DC has
>>cancelled Xero with #12 being the last issue.
My pal Crisper Than Thou said:
>I'm sure I'm not the only one having the "what's the use of being told
> how good something is, and trying it, and finding out that everyone's
> right, if they're going to cancel it?" experience. *sigh*
But the fact that the book is being cancelled doesn't mean that the issues
that were (and will still be) published aren't worth picking up and
reading. Granted, reading the first twelve issues of Xero would be a
=better= experience if issues #13-50 were also available, but they're
still pretty good in and of themselves (safely assuming the last few are
up to the same standard, of course).
Sometimes life is unfair, and a good thing comes to an end prematurely.
(That's true far beyond comics.) And like the man said, it's better to
have read and lost than never to have read at all.
Cheers, Todd
---
I read cancelled series
Todd VerBeek, gwm
>asve...@mtu.edu (Aaron S. Veenstra) wrote:
>>80%, are you sure? That sounds a little high. In the December PREVIEWS,
>>there are 11 series introduced since Zero Hour that are at or beyond #12,
>>and the only one *at* #12 is really #27 (JACK KIRBY'S FOURTH WORLD). I
>>can think of at least one title, EXTREME JUSTICE, which came after Zero
>>Hour, lastest more than a year, and has since been cancelled, while only
>>six come to mind that haven't lastest past #12: TAKION, AZTEK, SCARE
>>TACTICS, BOOK OF FATE, NIGHT FORCE and XER0.
Also: Firebrand (9 issues) and Mister Miracle (7 issues).
If you're counting Helix titles, Cyberella, Vermillion, and Gemini Blood
were all ongoing series that died at #12 (or #9: GB).
The number of "successful" series would include any series currently under
about 40 issues (Starman #39 is the 40th issue) but over 12. Animaniacs,
Azrael, Challs, The Dreaming, House of Secrets, Impulse, Invisibles, New
Gods/Fourth World, JLA, Looney Tunes, Nightwing, Preacher, Sovereign
Seven, S-Boy & the Ravers, Supergirl, Teen Titans. This list is missing
anything launched =after= ZH that was cancelled within the past couple
years (a few examples of which appear below). Even if you take the
non-DCU titles out, this is still a much better than 80% success rate.
My pal Nick Eden said:
>Primal Force, Manhunter, Fate, Rebels.
>
>In fact Starman was the only successful Zero Hour launch.
True, but the original statement was about books cancelled in a year or
less, and each of these lasted more than a year, even if not by much.
Primal Force lasted 15 issues, Fate stuck it out for 23, and REBELS went
18. (I don't know exactly when Manhunter disappeared; it was at least 13
issues, though.)
Apparently DC has recently(*) resolved to give any new series at least 12
issues (or at least try to). So I don't expect to see many series ended
in =less= than a year. Beyond that, however, the mortality figures start
to mount, as evidenced by the fact that only one Zero-Hour-launched title
lived to publish a 25th issue. So seeing issue #13 solicited is a good
sign, but no guarantee that the book will be around indefinitely.
(*) since the demise of Aztek, Takion, and Gemini Blood
Dwight Williams
Crisper Than Thou (cri...@shell15.ba.best.com) writes:
> Dwight Williams <ad...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote:
>>
>>Besides, I want that Chase/XerO crossover to happen, still.
>
> Well, first you have to read Chase and decide that you like it. Depressingly
> enough, my first thought upon reading tyg's post (beating out the damn-I-
> was-just-discovering-this thought) was "that'll probably be us in six months
> or a year".
Re: the "six months" bit -- I hope to <your choice of deity and/or ideal here>
*NOT*! Besides, from what you and the publicity machine have already
explained of premise and plans, I think you can safely count on my patronage.
> However, plenty of characters have only found their audience *after* their
> solo book failed for lack of sales (Booster Gold being the classic example).
> Hopefully, XerO will get his chance down the road.
No kidding about Booster. I get the feeling you *really* would like to see
him (with or w'out Beetle) get his own book again. Right? IMHO, the same
goes for the Kesels' version of _Hawk and Dove_.
And I would hope that this doesn't mean the permanent halt of _XerO_'s DCU
role as well...
Bart Gerardi
On 22 Oct 1997 15:21:12 GMT, mike...@aol.com (MikeGold) graced us
with:
>Elayne asks:
>>Any word on how sales have been?
>
>About as good as could be expected with that level of promotion.
I don't know how to say this without sounding un-politically
correct, but... With the demise of the Milestone line, which
had at least _some_ following, why wasn't an attempt made
to transfer those readers? Xero seems to be close to the same
thematically as some of the milestone books...
And you're right, Mike, the 12-issue promise is great, but it's
worthless without the proper marketing.
Bart
-----------------------------------------------------
Bart Gerardi, Information Technologist at Large, well
maybe not that large... ger...@mail.dec.com
-----------------------------------------------------
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Priest
In article <62isd7$30p$1...@nntp-3.io.com>, wre...@xanadu.io.com (Tim Serpas)
wrote:
The future of the character is in DC's hands as they have several
contractual options they may yet exercise. Of course, they _could_ be a
mensch and allow Chris and I to pursue offers for XERO. We'll have to
see. It's up to them.
--
christopher j. priest // cheyenne mountain ranch, colorado
"And now you all finally understand why I insist on having a garage with a
door that seals tightly and a properly maintained car with a full gas tank...
--MD Bright on Usenet
Priest
: dva...@eyrie.org (Dave Van Domelen) wrote:
:
: > Not to impugn Mania or anything, but I'll withhold wailing and tearing
: >of garments until I get the information direct from Priest or a DC staffer in
: >a position to know.
:
: Take it from One Who Knows. It's cancelled.
Sorry-- been away for awhile...
XERO has not found a wide enough audience and the reasons for that
encompass a long list of factors, of which I inlcude ChrisCross's and my
ambitious storytelling approach and the fact the book was not obviously
connected to any ongoing DC franchise. While I've been pretty vocal in my
dissapointment at some of the PTB's decisions of how to best present XERO
to an indifferent market-- and I won't begin to to pretend the
indifference and, in some corners, hostility towards this book from key
people within the company did not contribute to XERO's lethargic
performance-- I am nonetheless grateful for the support XERO's editorial
team (Dan Thorsland and Alisande Morales) gave the series in the face of
what must have often been withering frowns from people without whose
support the book could not possiblly survive. Expect no formal
announcement from DC. I have received no formal announcement from DC, but
to the best of my knowledge there is no issue #13, and Chris and I are
both pursuing other projects.
In the tradition of putting the best face on situations, it is unlikely DC
will announce the cancelation of a title prior to the final issue's
solicitation date, as fans often abandon ship on first news of an
impending cut. In this case, however, we are _clearly_ telling a story,
and it's my hope the book's fans (a small group but vocal and loyal) will
hang around to see how we wrap things up, admittedly _much_ sooner than we
had hoped.
Priest
In article <62nbs9$j...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>,
ad...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Dwight Williams) wrote:
: Crisper Than Thou (cri...@shell15.ba.best.com) writes:
: > Dwight Williams <ad...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote:
: >>
: >>Besides, I want that Chase/XerO crossover to happen, still.
: >
: > Well, first you have to read Chase and decide that you like it. Depressingly
: > enough, my first thought upon reading tyg's post (beating out the damn-I-
: > was-just-discovering-this thought) was "that'll probably be us in six
months
: > or a year".
:
: Re: the "six months" bit -- I hope to <your choice of deity and/or ideal here>
: *NOT*! Besides, from what you and the publicity machine have already
: explained of premise and plans, I think you can safely count on my patronage.
CHASE will have a _much_ better launch than Xero, better paper, better
publicity, and will spin out of Batman, yes? My instinct is DC will
support CHASE because CHASE is much more interwoven into the fabric of the
DCU than XERO is. Also, DC owns CHASE, yes?
You have every reason to be more optimistic. In spite of internal
grousing about the quality of XERO, DC still allowed it a year to find an
audience. CHASE will enjoy at least that, and one other thing XERO (to my
experience) never had-- the benefit of the doubt and an assumption that
the book will succeed.
Dwight Williams
Priest (cpr...@worldnet.att.net) writes:
> In article <62nbs9$j...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>,
> ad...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Dwight Williams) wrote:
> : Crisper Than Thou (cri...@shell15.ba.best.com) writes:
> : > Dwight Williams <ad...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote:
> : >>
> : >>Besides, I want that Chase/XerO crossover to happen, still.
> : >
> : > Well, first you have to read Chase and decide that you like it. Depressingly
> : > enough, my first thought upon reading tyg's post (beating out the damn-I-
> : > was-just-discovering-this thought) was "that'll probably be us in six
> months
> : > or a year".
> :
> : Re: the "six months" bit -- I hope to <your choice of deity and/or ideal here>
> : *NOT*! Besides, from what you and the publicity machine have already
> : explained of premise and plans, I think you can safely count on my patronage.
>
> CHASE will have a _much_ better launch than Xero, better paper, better
> publicity, and will spin out of Batman, yes? My instinct is DC will
> support CHASE because CHASE is much more interwoven into the fabric of the
> DCU than XERO is. Also, DC owns CHASE, yes?
>
> You have every reason to be more optimistic. In spite of internal
> grousing about the quality of XERO, DC still allowed it a year to find an
> audience. CHASE will enjoy at least that, and one other thing XERO (to my
> experience) never had-- the benefit of the doubt and an assumption that
> the book will succeed.
Well, if there was more I could have done to help *your* odds, Owz, I wish I'd
had the sense to see it and the will to act accordingly. If I was part of
the problem rather than the solution, I apologize.
And I still hope there's a way to get _XerO_(or some thematic followup)
restarted. I feel DCU is the poorer without it. Maybe a futile hope...but
so what?
Brian Hance
cpr...@worldnet.att.net (Priest) wrote:
>CHASE will have a _much_ better launch than Xero, better paper, better
>publicity, and will spin out of Batman, yes? My instinct is DC will
>support CHASE because CHASE is much more interwoven into the fabric of the
>DCU than XERO is. Also, DC owns CHASE, yes?
Just out of curiosity, since you own Xero is there any chance that the
book might find a home somewhere else? Image seems a fairly friendly
place for creator owned stuff.
Brian Hance * http://www.primenet.com/~bhance * bha...@primenet.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------
"The jesters, jokers and clowns were going about their business,
getting stuck in doorways on the way. There was much pushing and
shoving and honking of noses and falling of prats. It was a scene
to make a happy man slit his wrists on a fine spring day."
Terry Pratchett from "Men at Arms"
WRH Bill
It's been commented here that the book XERO has killed by a lack of promotion.
In my case, the one bit of promotion the book *did* get killed any interest on
my part in trying the series; I mean that house ad with a tag line something
like "No conscience. No morals. No values." This led me to assume that the
book was another super grim'n'gritty series about a killer mercenary or
somesuch. No thanks.
OK, judging by all these expressions of support for the book and regret about
its cancellation, maybe I was wrong. But what *is* (was) the book about? Is
it ultra g'n'g? Is it really about a man with no conscience... or about a man
who starts out with no conscience but learns to acquire one, which I might be
able to relate to? Should I at least look for the book in the quarter boxes?
Denise L. Voskuil
On 24 Oct 1997 02:21:40 GMT, wrh...@aol.com (WRH Bill) wrote:
>OK, judging by all these expressions of support for the book and regret about
> its cancellation, maybe I was wrong. But what *is* (was) the book about? Is
> it ultra g'n'g? Is it really about a man with no conscience... or about a man
> who starts out with no conscience but learns to acquire one, which I might be
> able to relate to? Should I at least look for the book in the quarter boxes?
It's about pro basketball, about brothers, about love, lust, and
betrayal. It's about secret agents and missions for the government
into the middle of wars or country clubs. It's about backstabbing,
hard-core technology, about the awakening of a conscience in an agent
'programmed' to have none, and the consequences it may produce. It's
one of only three "superhero" books I read regularly - though it's
really high-tech espionage - and I'm pissed it's being cancelled. I
hope DC gives it back nicely and fairly quickly so I can keep reading
it.
- Denise
--
Denise Voskuil - dvos...@mcs.com
http://www.mcs.net/~dvoskuil/
Brian McDn
eri...@aol.com (EricHod) writes:
>>Aaron, doesn't want to hear "The newest edition to the Awesome family..."
>
>Ugh. Please, no. I'm the guy who bought Fighting American #1.
I'd be perfectly happy to see Xero by Priest/Cross under any imprint. If
Awesome can offer them a good deal, I see nothing wrong with taking it.
There's nothing intrinsically wrong with Awesome, even if Liefeld is the
owner.
Brian.
R. Tang
In article <34503ed...@news.primenet.com>,
Brian Hance <bha...@primenet.com> wrote:
>cpr...@worldnet.att.net (Priest) wrote:
>
>>CHASE will have a _much_ better launch than Xero, better paper, better
>>publicity, and will spin out of Batman, yes?
Don't laugh. I think the paper DID have something to do with it.
It made the narration hard to read a lot of times, for one thing
(and a hard to read book probably won't sell as welll).
--
Roger Tang, gwan...@u.washington.edu, Artistic Director PC Theatre
Editor, Asian American Theatre Revue [NEW URL]
http://www.abcflash.com/arts/r_tang/AATR.html
Declared 4-F in the War Between the Sexes
Priest
In article <34503ed...@news.primenet.com>, bha...@primenet.com (Brian
Hance) wrote:
: Just out of curiosity, since you own Xero is there any chance that the
: book might find a home somewhere else? Image seems a fairly friendly
: place for creator owned stuff.
I've responded to this question earlier: DC has contractual options it
could exercise which would tie the rights up. It's really up to them.
Todd VerBeek, gwm
My pal WRH Bill said:
>It's been commented here that the book XERO has killed by a lack of promotion.
> In my case, the one bit of promotion the book *did* get killed any interest on
> my part in trying the series; I mean that house ad with a tag line something
> like "No conscience. No morals. No values." This led me to assume that the
> book was another super grim'n'gritty series about a killer mercenary or
> somesuch. No thanks.
>
> its cancellation, maybe I was wrong. But what *is* (was) the book about? Is
> it ultra g'n'g? Is it really about a man with no conscience... or about a man
> who starts out with no conscience but learns to acquire one, which I might be
> able to relate to?
Bingo.
>Should I at least look for the book in the quarter boxes?
Definitely. Personally, I think it's worth paying cover price (or even
the price after the common 25-cent mark-up many shops do with anything
that gets bagged, boarded, and boxed). I'm not going to say you should
pay whatever you must to read it, or go to other such superlative
extremes; it's not Maus. But it's a good read.
Cheers, Todd
---
Long Sideburns: further proof that those who do not
remember history are doomed to repeat its mistakes.
Laurent Lehmann
On 24 Oct 1997 15:59:29 GMT, Rick Jones <ri...@blkbox.com> wrote :
>The book was about a cyborg government agent. One who did his (dirty) job
>with machinelike efficiency. But, at one point, he asks the question
>"why" and begins to "build" a conscience. Slowly and with baby steps,
>but he's getting his soul back.
From what you said, the book looks interesting, although the
'killer without a soul discovers he actually has a soul' bit has
already been done many times in crime novels.
I try to give a chance at every new series that looks like it
might interest me, especially when it's published by DC and I can
expect at least a coherent 12 issues 'maxi-series'. Sometimes the
series doesn't grab me, sometimes it does. And I occasionally find in
back-issue bins the whole run of a cancelled series and regret not
having bought it off the shelves.
So what ? I'm only human, and sometimes I make mistakes. I buy
more comics, eurocomics, novels and magazines a month than I actually
have time to read (I won't even talk about money and storage room !).
I'd possibly have had more fun with Xero than with some of the other
comics on my pull list, but how could I know ?
I must order most of the new series sight unseen, as I can go to
my 'local' (100 km ! I'm French - 10 years ago the nearest *good*
comics shop was in Paris - 600 km !) comics shop only once every two
months, and it doesn't carry many new titles that I might browse
through before commiting to them.
I don't read Xero nor Q&W. Maybe I should. The word of mouth on
rac* is good, but the ads never gave me an idea of what these books
are about, and I never got a chance to see how well they were
executed. Too bad for Priest; too bad for me, too ?
It just goes to show that a publisher shouldn't just release a new
series in the jungle and watch it grow or die on its own strength, but
actively support it. How can it be done ? House ads giving a clear
idea of the final product, short stories in anthology books or
annuals, 'logical' crossovers. DC has done all this at times (preview
of Hellblazer in ST, Hitman in Demon and Batman Chronicles, Batman in
early Hitman and Chase).
Obviously the latter two types of promotion are harder to do with
a non-DCU series (although the Scarlett team also did a B:LTDK issue).
But in the case of creator-owned series, the creator'd better make
sure that his chosen publisher is willing to make the new series a
success, or try to find another one, more interested !
Laurent
__
"I heard about how you two stood there, laughing over
some private joke. Tell me... was it me ? "
- Barbara Gordon, Oracle, in Batman Chronicles #5,
written by John Ostrander & Kim Yale
Randy Lander
cri...@shell15.ba.best.com (Crisper Than Thou) wrote:
>Dwight Williams <ad...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote:
>>
>>Besides, I want that Chase/XerO crossover to happen, still.
>Well, first you have to read Chase and decide that you like it. Depressingly
> enough, my first thought upon reading tyg's post (beating out the damn-I-
> was-just-discovering-this thought) was "that'll probably be us in six months
> or a year".
Yep. It's too the point where I almost hate buying new DC series,
because there seems to be this "one year to find an audience or you're
toast" mentality among TPTB. I'll be buying Chase and rooting for it
to survive, based on the first issue.
>However, plenty of characters have only found their audience *after* their
> solo book failed for lack of sales (Booster Gold being the classic example).
> Hopefully, XerO will get his chance down the road.
Yes, and look how well Booster has fared now (one arm chopped off,
armor destroyed, reduced to a goofy sidekick to Blue Beetle.) I hope
no one at DC gets the idea to use Xero without Priest's permission and
approval. For that matter, isn't he creator owned?
>--
>The government can take everything but your paranoia.
The above are the opinions of Randy Lander. Had they been
the biblical truth, your bushes would be on fire.
---------------------------------------------------------
rwla...@io.com <*> http://www.io.com/~rwlander
Bradly E. Peterson
wrh...@aol.com (WRH Bill) done said this here deal:
>It's been commented here that the book XERO has killed by a lack of promotion.
> In my case, the one bit of promotion the book *did* get killed any interest on
> my part in trying the series; I mean that house ad with a tag line something
> like "No conscience. No morals. No values." This led me to assume that the
> book was another super grim'n'gritty series about a killer mercenary or
> somesuch. No thanks.
That was my thought on seeing the ad as well. It was only later
on, when I heard the ACTUAL concept of the book that I decided to
check it out. It also posed an interesting dual theme... A
"black book" disguised as a "white book" about a black guy
disguised as a black guy.
Oh come on! I can't be the only guy. This thought didn't pop up
in your head just once? heh... Oh well, maybe it's because I
tend to look for things hidden in plain sight. Must be a
by-product of watching "Twin Peaks" tapes over and over to get
"the whole story". heh...
Anyway, I wondered if titles that are considered "afro-centric"
(sheesh... Yet another label. Heard this term and wondered if
it would be better as "afri-centric") sell less than titles that
are uh... "anglo-centric"? eeeewww... Now THAT really sounds
dopey. Whatever the case, I think you see where this parade is
headed.
Thoughts?
Bradly E. Peterson, Psychodrama Press
(Remove SPAMBLOCK from address to reply)
<http://www.fastlane.net/homepages/drama>
"I stared long and hard into the abyss...
... and saw myself staring back"
"Great spirits have always encountered
violent opposition from mediocre minds"
(Albert Einstein)
Bradly E. Peterson
eri...@aol.com (EricHod) done said this here deal:
>>Aaron, doesn't want to hear "The newest edition to the Awesome family..."
>Ugh. Please, no. I'm the guy who bought Fighting American #1.
You have our sympathies. heh...
EFon231
When will you find out what DC plans to do? Wherever this title goes I'll read
it as long as you write it.
Todd VerBeek, gwm
>>cpr...@worldnet.att.net (Priest) wrote:
>>>CHASE will have a _much_ better launch than Xero, better paper, better
>>>publicity, and will spin out of Batman, yes?
My pal R. Tang said:
> Don't laugh. I think the paper DID have something to do with it.
> It made the narration hard to read a lot of times,
I think the choice of font was more to blame than the paper on which it
was printed.
>for one thing
>(and a hard to read book probably won't sell as welll).
The hard-to-read plastic paper on the Superbooks and Batbooks certainly
doesn't help to sell them to =me=.
Cheers, Todd (using a different definition of "hard to read")
Prestorjon
> I get the impression that it's stature,
>amongst racdc readers at least, has slipped a bit, mostly due to
>Robinson's handling of GA characters.
Yeah he actually uses them in stories. How dare he!
Prestorjon
>Yep. It's too the point where I almost hate buying new DC series,
>because there seems to be this "one year to find an audience or you're
>toast" mentality among TPTB. I'll be buying Chase and rooting for it
>to survive, based on the first issue.
I know what you mean. I was really dissapointed when the excelent Helix title
Gemini Blood was cancelled at issue #9. It was a great series (much better
than Hinz novels IMHO) and really had a good story arc starting up.
Prestorjon
>However, plenty of characters have only found their audience *after* their
> solo book failed for lack of sales (Booster Gold being the classic example).
> Hopefully, XerO will get his chance down the road.
Yeah but Booster Gold worked cause he was in a good book. I don't know about
other folks but I don't like Xero as a person or a character, I like how the
series is written and drawn and if Xero were to show up in another series he
wouldn't be interesting to me (unless they butchered his character)
EricHod
>Anyway, I wondered if titles that are considered "afro-centric"
>(sheesh... Yet another label. Heard this term and wondered if
>it would be better as "afri-centric") sell less than titles that
>are uh... "anglo-centric"? eeeewww... Now THAT really sounds
>dopey. Whatever the case, I think you see where this parade is
>headed.
>
>Thoughts?
>
>
Yeah, that would be MY guess. I read the interview of Grant Morrison in that
JLA special a little while back. GM said that he thought that many comic book
readers refuse to buy books starring non-white characters. Of course he was
discussing possible reasons that the Martian Manhunter has never had his own
book but I think it still applies. I don't know if an Afro-centric (or
AFRI-centric) book will ever again reach the issue numbers of Hero for
Hire/Power Man/PM & Iron Fist.
Nick Eden
On Wed, 22 Oct 1997 16:29:24 -0600, Scott Matieshin
<mat...@pangea.usask.ca> wrote:
>And speaking of Starman:
>
>How's that one doing, sales wise? I get the impression that it's stature,
>amongst racdc readers at least, has slipped a bit, mostly due to
>Robinson's handling of GA characters.
Isn't that just the traditional 'throwing stones at him because he's
popular?' approach?
I mean, if saying the Red Bee's schitck was pretty hopeless makes you
a bad person thn we're all evil.
-------------------------------------------------------
Moon Wars! Gloranthan Roleplaying with Star Wars Rules
http://www.pheasnt.demon.co.uk/Moon2.html
Spamblock: Replace DOT with . to reply
Mango-Wan
On 23 Oct 1997, Dwight Williams wrote:
> Crisper Than Thou (cri...@shell15.ba.best.com) writes:
> > Dwight Williams <ad...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote:
> >>Besides, I want that Chase/XerO crossover to happen, still.
> > Well, first you have to read Chase and decide that you like it. Depressingly
> > enough, my first thought upon reading tyg's post (beating out the damn-I-
> > was-just-discovering-this thought) was "that'll probably be us in six months
> > or a year".
> Re: the "six months" bit -- I hope to <your choice of deity and/or ideal here>
> *NOT*! Besides, from what you and the publicity machine have already
> explained of premise and plans, I think you can safely count on my patronage.
The Chase is Batman before the series is a good idea... except of course,
I hate the turns up in another magazine to advertise it's upcoming series
gimmick... but it's gotta be done (because #1 out of nowhere just attracts
so many readers)... and Why is it appearing THE MONTH before CHASE comes
out? Won't the readers attracted by the appearence in Batman, but
ordering it late?
---
- Dug.
---
Mango-Wan
On Wed, 22 Oct 1997, Aaron S. Veenstra wrote:
> In article <34538b2e...@news.zippo.com>, ver...@bigfoot.com (Todd
> VerBeek, gwm) wrote:
> > But the fact that the book is being cancelled doesn't mean that the issues
> > that were (and will still be) published aren't worth picking up and
> > reading. Granted, reading the first twelve issues of Xero would be a
> > =better= experience if issues #13-50 were also available, but they're
> > still pretty good in and of themselves (safely assuming the last few are
> > up to the same standard, of course).
> And this is to say nothing of the possibility that it returns. Priest
> owns XER0 after all, so it could return in any number of places.
> Aaron, doesn't want to hear "The newest edition to the Awesome family..."
No, you're thinking of 2ERO, a wholely Liefeld created character... no
wait... they're just got the rights to NULL, a 50's humour character
that they've updated... for example Null is spelt Nu11.
---
- Dug.
---
Pariah
In article <19971026155...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, eri...@aol.com
says...
Yeah, I agree. I think white readers oftenly feel that when a character is not
white the book is not aimed at them, and therefore they wouldn't like it. It's
kind of like non-white movies... they have their audiences, but most white
people will not see them becasue they feel they wouldn't appreciate them.
Especially when the non-white movies are either not any good (usually the
blacksploitation movies like "Booty Call") or they make white people out to be
the enemy (most things regarding the civil rights movie or by Spike Lee). It
took me a while before I bought books with non-white leading characters... not
because I'm racist... but because I don't think it's aimed at me. When I first
got GREEN LANTERN MOSAIC... it proved my point. Looking back at it, it isn't
bad... but I was too young to appreciate it at the time and therefore justified
my bias.
Pariah
Prestorjon
>But what *is* (was) the book about?
In the most simple sense Xero is about Trane Walker, a proffessional basketball
player and the premiere contract killer for a shadowy government agency. The
story is basically (as far as I can tell) about Xeros eventual redemption.
> Is
> it ultra g'n'g?
Sort of but its still worht looking at..
>Is it really about a man with no conscience... or about a man
> who starts out with no conscience but learns to acquire one, which I might
>be
> able to relate to?
Yes. Xero starts out the series as a heartless killer (the first issue has him
passing by a hostage situation he could easily have cleared up, but he doesn't
cause he doesn't care) but gradually begins to gain a conscience.
>Should I at least look for the book in the quarter boxes?
>
>
Yes.
---------------------------------------------------
"Have you ever made a just man?"
"Oh I have made three." answered God
"But two of them are dead- and the third
Listen! Listen!
You can hear the third of his defeat."
-Stephen Crane
Prestorjon
> Xero seems to be close to the same
>thematically as some of the milestone books...
Ummm, only in that it features a black character. I geuss Blood Syndicate had
some of the sam themes but IMHO it was a more complex book (just by virtue of
their being more characters)
DCO Martha
Okay, this is hideously off-topic, for which I apologize, but I must say
something.
Pariah said:
>It's
kind of like non-white movies... they have their audiences, but most white
people will not see them becasue they feel they wouldn't appreciate them.
Especially when the non-white movies are either not any good (usually the
blacksploitation movies like "Booty Call") or they make white people out to be
the enemy (most things regarding the civil rights movie or by Spike Lee). <
Having scene every Spike Lee movie, I have never felt his message was that all
white people are the enemy.
If anything, I feel privileged to view them, because I suspect it's the only
way that I, as a white person, can hear how black people talk when white
people aren't around.
Martha Thomases
Going Back To Regularly Scheduled Comics Conversation
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
Randy Lander (rwla...@io.com) wrote:
: cri...@shell15.ba.best.com (Crisper Than Thou) wrote:
: > Depressingly
: > enough, my first thought upon reading tyg's post (beating out the damn-I-
: > was-just-discovering-this thought) was "that'll probably be us in six months
: > or a year".
: Yep. It's too the point where I almost hate buying new DC series,
: because there seems to be this "one year to find an audience or you're
: toast" mentality among TPTB.
Why is this mentality a bad thing, Randy? I think any book that doesn't
find its audience in 12 issues-- an entire YEAR-- probably isn't going to
find it given any more time. Twelve issues is a heck of a lot longer than
the PTB *used* to give a book, and I for one applaud this apparent change
in policy. (Or have y'all forgotten JUSTICE SOCIETY already?)
- Elayne
--
"Very few people possess true artistic ability. It is therefore both
unseemly and unproductive to irritate the situation by making an effort.
If you have a burning, restless urge to write or paint, simply eat
something sweet and the feeling will pass." - Fran Lebowitz
Brian Hance
fire...@panix.com (Elayne Wechsler-Chaput) wrote:
>Randy Lander (rwla...@io.com) wrote:
>: Yep. It's too the point where I almost hate buying new DC series,
>: because there seems to be this "one year to find an audience or you're
>: toast" mentality among TPTB.
>Why is this mentality a bad thing, Randy? I think any book that doesn't
>find its audience in 12 issues-- an entire YEAR-- probably isn't going to
>find it given any more time. Twelve issues is a heck of a lot longer than
>the PTB *used* to give a book, and I for one applaud this apparent change
>in policy. (Or have y'all forgotten JUSTICE SOCIETY already?)
The only problem I see here is that they didn't even give Xero 12
issues. I doubt DC would give the book a reprieve unless it starts
selling up around the levels of an X book.
Hernan Espinoza
Pariah wrote:
> Yeah, I agree. I think white readers oftenly feel that when a character is not
> white the book is not aimed at them, and therefore they wouldn't like it.
Oddly enough, that's how non-white readers feel many times, too;
but the numbers work against us. Plus, we can't even make the same
observation without people jumping down our throats for being divisive.
Damned if we do, damned if we don't. For instance, I guarantee I will be
attacked more vigorously than you for saying this (or, at least,
"disagreed with" 8-) )
> It's
> kind of like non-white movies... they have their audiences, but most white
> people will not see them becasue they feel they wouldn't appreciate them.
> Especially when the non-white movies are either not any good (usually the
> blacksploitation movies like "Booty Call") or they make white people out to be
> the enemy (most things regarding the civil rights movie or by Spike Lee).
So...... non-white is either "no-good" or "anti-white"?
Sigh. No unfair generalization there...
(I'll get attacked for this, too... 8-) )
> It
> took me a while before I bought books with non-white leading characters... not
> because I'm racist... but because I don't think it's aimed at me. When I first
> got GREEN LANTERN MOSAIC... it proved my point. Looking back at it, it isn't
> bad... but I was too young to appreciate it at the time and therefore
> justified my bias.
Assuming I'm reading this right, good for you. Personally, I stopped
buying Mosaic because it just got too confusing and weird for my limited
budget towards the end.
-Hernan, would have an awfully short pull list and would have
missed a lot if he only read what was aimed at him
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
jken...@himail.hcc.com
In <632d6h$a...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>, cpr...@worldnet.att.net (Priest) writes:
>If subsequent efforts to place a black character at the foreground have
>met with disappointing results, I can only speculate that white America is
>not as accustomed to embracing black culture as black America, which has
>no choice in the matter.
OK, I think I'll jump in here. First of all (I wouldn't normally mention this,
but it seems relevant in this case), I'm white, and 49. Also prefatory,
the above sentence is a little too elliptical; I'm not sure whether it is
black culture or white culture that black America is supposed to be
accustomed to embracing. (Oh God, now it sounds like I'm ragging
on your writing skills; believe me, I know perfectly well how screwed
up _anyone_, professional writer or no, can get while composing
on-line. I mention it only because I truly can't decide which of the
two possible interpretations of the sentence is correct....)
Anyway, all that aside....
Surely it is an equally common complaint that white America is _too_
eager to pick up -- nay, to appropriate -- black culture. c.f. everything
that's happened from ragtime to rock, although rap seems to have held
its own. Of course, that makes one wonder "Why not rap?" and that
seems to spin around again -- is much of modern self-consciously black
culture deliberately un-white precisely to prevent co-option? There
would be parallels enough in non-racial cases; I understand that as
soon as C.B. radios became popular in the 70's, truckers started to use
the phrase "good buddy" to mean "homosexual", just to confound the
wannabees. And if that _is_ the case, is it a wonder that whites don't
feel like picking up what black culture seems at present to want to be?
I read all the Milestone titles, and I've been reading Xero. But, you know,
all the way through Xero, I've had the feeling that I was trespassing. I
had that feeling with Milestone sometimes (mainly on Blood Syndicate),
but it's been more uncomfortable with Xero, because it _isn't_ of an
in-your-face ghetto/rap/gang mentality; it is, as far as it goes, pretty
bourgeois, and yet I still get a feeling of "It's a black thang," from it.
I'm rambling....
God knows I don't envy contemporary black artists. The newest wave
of black sitcoms make me puke; why don't they just go all the way and
start rolling their eyes and shuffling and saying "Yassuh!"? They're so
near to it now they might as well close the circle. But then you don't
want to go the same way as Bill Cosby, either. (It is something akin to
tragic that no-one will tell him that although he is both a great comic
and a great actor, he is not a great comic actor.) Is "Steel" too far
gone that way? To this admittedly ignorant white, it seems to be
pretty well balanced. (Granted, it doesn't aim any higher than being
an ordinarily good DC superhero comic.)
>Little black kids, including myself, have grown up wishing they could be
>Batman and identifying with white heroes. To many white Americans, black
>heroes are still "The Other," in a way white heroes and culture never
>could be to us.
I suppose that's especially true in my case; I grew up in a small city in
central Maine, and never even met a non-white until I was 14. On the
other hand, I literally didn't know there was a race problem until I was
8 or so; until the National Guard was sent to Central High in Little Rock
and I asked my parents what it was all about, I thought the whole
race issue had been put to bed forever in 1865. I thought a "nigger"
must be some kind of lizard, because it says "Catch a nigger by the
_toe_," so obviously it must be something with toes fairly large
compared to its body size, and some lizards are like that.... (Hey,
kids can be damn creative etymologists....)
I suppose I'm beginning to sound like a "typical white liberal", but it's
not that either -- nothing de haute en bas. All I know is that there's
this great big mess about race and it's all tied up in so many knots
upon knots that I can't figure it out, let alone have any idea of how
someone else should react.
Maybe you can make sense of this raving. I swear I _am_ trying to
produce more light than heat.
John W. Kennedy - HiServ NA - Team OS/2 - (The OS/2 Hobbit) - TIPA
IBMMAIL: USAHC29S IBMLink: NAAO3IY "Compact is becoming contract;
CompuServe: 75136,1413 Prodigy: MTMV04A Man only earns and pays."
X.400: US Telemail Hoechst AOL: WillmoreRv -- Charles Williams
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
N Blanton (npb...@acs.tamu.edu) wrote:
N, please trim your quotations.
: jken...@himail.hcc.com wrote:
: >
: > Maybe you can make sense of this raving. I swear I _am_ trying to
: > produce more light than heat.
: Listen, white man.. no-body wants to hear some whitebread tell a black
: man the way it is.
N, he wasn't trying to tell anyone anything. He was genuinely *asking*.
Your response doesn't elucidate matters for him.
: You make your heroes all whitey's. Take Superman, he is J.A.H. if you
: ask me. Just Another Honkey! He and his kind are made by the white man
: to be designed as heroes, with his perfect hair and his white skin.
Silly N, he's blue now! :)
: How come no black hero is powerful like Superman? The only brother we
: got that's worth a shit is Spawn and he's a demon.
Besides Priest-written books, there have been a number of powerful heroes
who haven't been white, but there are few heroes PERIOD who are as
powerful as Superman. Spawn is a good example, but you're right, he's a
demon. Storm at Marvel is pretty powerful; Luke Cage the way John
Ostrander resurrected him (post-blaxpliotation) ain't bad. Jefferson
Pierce, aka Black Lightning, is relatively powerful, although I'm not sure
what his range is compared to Supes'. Hero in SUPERBOY AND THE RAVERS
comprises dozens of very powerful heroes when he uses his H Dial-- all
black, mostly male. XS is the Legion's premiere speedster. Of course,
Icon was probably easily as powerful as Superman (and I'm pretty sure
Rocket could fly rings around Wonder Woman ;).
I would be very, very surprised if there isn't at least one canonical list
floating about of black superheroes in comics. Can anyone point N or
myself to an appropriate URL?
Jim Smith
Priest wrote:
> Little black kids, including myself, have grown up wishing they could be
> Batman and identifying with white heroes. To many white Americans, black
> heroes are still "The Other," in a way white heroes and culture never
> could be to us.
Well, I'm as white as a bowling pin, and I want to be Priest when I grow
up, so that shoots that theory all to hell, don't it?
Chuck Hensey
Assuming for a moment this isn't a troll, I'll try to respond. No
offense is meant in any of my statements.
N Blanton wrote:
> jken...@himail.hcc.com wrote:
> >
> > In <632d6h$a...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>, cpr...@worldnet.att.net
> (Priest) writes:
> > >If subsequent efforts to place a black character at the foreground
> have
> > >met with disappointing results, I can only speculate that white
> America is
> > >not as accustomed to embracing black culture as black America,
> which has
> > >no choice in the matter.
First, to Mr. Priest. I firmly believe that while America in general is
nowhere as far along in the issue of race relations as many of us would
like it to be, I think that an African Super-Hero with a strong African
culture could be sucessful if done properly (I for one am looking
forward to the BL Kwansa (sp) story). Sadly though, it's the being done
properly that gets in the way many times and the end result
(cancelation) is sometimes blamed on a lack of enthusiasm for black
heroes then a poor marketting strategy or not enough PR by the company,
like how I almost missed Quantam and Woody.
Mainstream society still has a problem with only accepting many African
stars as comics or sports starts only and not as serious performers/role
models (two exceptions being Collen Powell and Sidney Poitier). Along
those lines, it is interesting to note how various commentators have
dealt with the "Million Woman March" and how some resorted to ethnic and
sexist stereotypes (the man with the golden mike did that) while others
have actually tried to look at the purpose behind the march and take it
seriously (as did some of my co-workers who took off Friday to drive
North to Philly for it).
> > OK, I think I'll jump in here. First of all (I wouldn't normally
> mention this,
> > but it seems relevant in this case), I'm white, and 49. Also
> prefatory,
> > the above sentence is a little too elliptical; I'm not sure whether
> it is
> > black culture or white culture that black America is supposed to be
> > accustomed to embracing. (Oh God, now it sounds like I'm ragging
> > on your writing skills; believe me, I know perfectly well how
> screwed
> > up _anyone_, professional writer or no, can get while composing
> > on-line. I mention it only because I truly can't decide which of
> the
> > two possible interpretations of the sentence is correct....)
> >
> > Anyway, all that aside....
> >
> > Surely it is an equally common complaint that white America is _too_
>
> > eager to pick up -- nay, to appropriate -- black culture. c.f.
> everything
> > that's happened from ragtime to rock, although rap seems to have
> held
> > its own. Of course, that makes one wonder "Why not rap?" and that
> > seems to spin around again -- is much of modern self-consciously
> black
> > culture deliberately un-white precisely to prevent co-option?
That tended to only happen, at least as I understood it, only after some
of the white rap groups hit it big and the themes in the
African-American rap got more violent and dealt with problems in the
inner city, but I could be wrong since I'm not a rap fan.
> > >Little black kids, including myself, have grown up wishing they
> could be
> > >Batman and identifying with white heroes. To many white Americans,
> black
> > >heroes are still "The Other," in a way white heroes and culture
> never
> > >could be to us.
And not just Black kids, but also Hispanic and others not generally
represented in the funny books.
> > I suppose that's especially true in my case; I grew up in a small
> city in
> > central Maine, and never even met a non-white until I was 14. On
> the
> > other hand, I literally didn't know there was a race problem until I
> was
> > 8 or so; until the National Guard was sent to Central High in Little
> Rock
> > and I asked my parents what it was all about, I thought the whole
> > race issue had been put to bed forever in 1865. I thought a
> "nigger"
> > must be some kind of lizard, because it says "Catch a nigger by the
> > _toe_," so obviously it must be something with toes fairly large
> > compared to its body size, and some lizards are like that.... (Hey,
>
> > kids can be damn creative etymologists....)
> >
> > I suppose I'm beginning to sound like a "typical white liberal", but
> it's
> > not that either -- nothing de haute en bas. All I know is that
> there's
> > this great big mess about race and it's all tied up in so many knots
>
> > upon knots that I can't figure it out, let alone have any idea of
> how
> > someone else should react.
> >
> > Maybe you can make sense of this raving. I swear I _am_ trying to
> > produce more light than heat.
> >
> > John W. Kennedy - HiServ NA - Team OS/2 - (The OS/2 Hobbit) - TIPA
> > IBMMAIL: USAHC29S IBMLink: NAAO3IY "Compact is becoming
> contract;
> > CompuServe: 75136,1413 Prodigy: MTMV04A Man only earns and
> pays."
> > X.400: US Telemail Hoechst AOL: WillmoreRv -- Charles Williams
>
> Listen, white man.. no-body wants to hear some whitebread tell a black
>
> man the way it is. We know the way it is and it is this - The white
> man
> and his white America try to ignore the black man.
Ummm... dunno where you live, but that's not the way it is at least in
many sections of the South today. Blacks and whites live side by side
and in peace for the most part. Now if you are claiming that the poor in
the inner city are being ignored/forgotten then I'll be happy to agree
with you, but please watch the tone of your post.
> You make your heroes all whitey's. Take Superman, he is J.A.H. if you
>
> ask me. Just Another Honkey! He and his kind are made by the white
> man
> to be designed as heroes, with his perfect hair and his white skin.
> How
> come you got this brother from another planet and he's a white man?
> Is
> the white man trying to say that on a perfect planet (krypton) with
> it's
> planet of supermen they all be white? Oh, sure they might toss in one
>
> or two brothers, sitting in the background doing nothing. Yea, the
> white man needs somebody to get his hands dirty while they eat thier
> good food, and they need somebody to push around like he has always
> been
> doing.
*blink* Ok, I've got a silly question then. If the creators of Superman
were black and they presented this idea, or one like it, to a publisher,
don't you think that many of the people on their planet would be of the
same skin color?
> How come no black hero is powerful like Superman? The only brother we
>
> got that's worth a shit is Spawn and he's a demon. That's what the
> white man would like us to think, that while we got superwhitey JAH
> Superman flying around being perfect, the only place for the black man
>
> is to creep around in the shadows.
You obviously didn't read the Milestone Titles then. Why don't you go
out and get them and then come back and talk about no other hero as
strong as Superman.
> It's all about race. Sure, you got millions of black men "living" in
> America. And when I say living, I mean trying to survive on the
> scraps
> of reject crap the white man tosses to us, as they try and keep us
> down.
And there are millions of whites who live that way too, as well as
Hispanics and Asians, and Native Americans and many other groups. You
almost make it sound like you think there is a economic warfare instead
of racial.
> Anyway, so we got a country FULL of brothers. So, how come none
> of them ever fall into a vat of radioactive goo,
Power Man, sort of (actually he stayed in the spin cycle too long, but
that's another story).
> invent a super-soldier
> formula
Giant-Man III improved on Dr. Pym's growth/shrinking formula and is a
renown scientist in the Marvel Universe.
> or otherwise get struck by superhero lightning?
Black Lightning :), Thunderbolt I, and many others.
> Wassup with
> that? Ohhh.. sure, you got one or two black heroes running around.
> The
> white man wants some guys they can make look worse than thier great
> white heroes like Superman. We get guys like the Falcon. A SIDEKICK
> to
> Captain America who has a bird. Ooohh and that is supposes to make it
>
> all right.
>
> White man: "What you bitchin about? You got a guy with a bird."
When was the Black Panther anyones sidekick or handled himself in a less
then proper manner? I also never got the impression that Misty Knight
was any less competent then Collen Wing, her partner (Misty is one of my
favorite characters too) in fact, those two women depend on each other
not only in fights, but as friends too.
> Hell the white man tries to erase the black man in his comic book
> worlds
> just like he tries to do in the real one.
No, but explaining that the reason there aren't a ton of African
characters has more to do with people writing about what they know and a
lack of African-American writers instead of a white man's conspiracy
(tm) probably won't mean much to you. It must be nice to go around life
with a chip on your shoulder like that. Gee, I wish I could get away
with that (hmm... does anyone out there have something against ex-viola
players or viola players in general? :) ).
Pariah
In article <8779958...@dejanews.com>, Hernan says...
>
>Pariah wrote:
>
>>Yeah, I agree. I think white readers oftenly feel that when a character is not
>> white the book is not aimed at them, and therefore they wouldn't like it.
>
> Oddly enough, that's how non-white readers feel many times, too;
>but the numbers work against us. Plus, we can't even make the same
>observation without people jumping down our throats for being divisive.
>Damned if we do, damned if we don't. For instance, I guarantee I will be
>attacked more vigorously than you for saying this (or, at least,
>"disagreed with" 8-) )
Perhaps so, but it's easy to underestimate what white people have to endure
sometimes... We don't know what it's like to be non-white.. and when we don't
understand something (like many white people don't understand affirmative action
and why its still necessary <Im not one of those people>) we get called a racist
or are accused of trying to keep white supremecy. You're right, the numbers
really are against you (we also get in trouble for using the 2nd person when
referring to another race sometimes.. I'll apoligize in advance)... I'll get to
that later.
>
>> It's
>> kind of like non-white movies... they have their audiences, but most white
>> people will not see them becasue they feel they wouldn't appreciate them.
>> Especially when the non-white movies are either not any good (usually the
>>blacksploitation movies like "Booty Call") or they make white people out to be
>> the enemy (most things regarding the civil rights movie or by Spike Lee).
>
> So...... non-white is either "no-good" or "anti-white"?
>
> Sigh. No unfair generalization there...
>
> (I'll get attacked for this, too... 8-) )
It is an unfair generalization. I was trying to show the perception of non-white
movies... not necessarily how they are.
>
>> It
>>took me a while before I bought books with non-white leading characters... not
>>because I'm racist... but because I don't think it's aimed at me. When I first
>> got GREEN LANTERN MOSAIC... it proved my point. Looking back at it, it isn't
>> bad... but I was too young to appreciate it at the time and therefore
>> justified my bias.
>
> Assuming I'm reading this right, good for you. Personally, I stopped
>buying Mosaic because it just got too confusing and weird for my limited
>budget towards the end.
I stopped.. but I regret it. I wish I could get the issue's that I'm missing.
Pariah
Pariah
In article <19971028020...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, prest...@aol.com
says...
>
><<Surely it is an equally common complaint that white America is _too_
>eager to pick up -- nay, to appropriate -- black culture>>
>
> white kids.
><<I read all the Milestone titles, and I've been reading Xero. But, you know,
>all the way through Xero, I've had the feeling that I was trespassing. I
>had that feeling with Milestone sometimes (mainly on Blood Syndicate),>>
>
> they can be and I never felt at all self-conscious about liking Blood
> Syndicate (my favorite Milestone book. And I wished they'd published the Fade
> mini. The script alone made me cry)
>
><<I thought a "nigger"
>must be some kind of lizard, because it says "Catch a nigger by the
>_toe_,">>
>
It got changed along the way.
Pariah
Pariah
In article <19971028021...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, prest...@aol.com
says...
>
><<Yeah, I agree. I think white readers oftenly feel that when a character is
> not
>kind of like non-white movies... >>
>
> they were white.
That is a PERFECT example. I thought Hardware (while I collected it, I stopped
quickly due to financial constraints) was a really cool character.
Pariah
Pariah
In article <19971028015...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, prest...@aol.com
says...
>
><<Why is this mentality a bad thing, Randy? I think any book that doesn't
>find its audience in 12 issues-- an entire YEAR-- probably isn't going to
>find it given any more time. Twelve issues is a heck of a lot longer than
>the PTB *used* to give a book, and I for one applaud this apparent change
>in policy. (Or have y'all forgotten JUSTICE SOCIETY already?) >>
>
> thought that creators should try out series that aren't a sure-fire success as
> a mini-series. if it sucedes it can come back as a mini or a monthly. If
> not, then at least the fans got everything wrapped up in one story and weren't
> left dangling.
> Even if its not a mini-series maybe creators should start planning to have
> the series resolve itself (mostly anyway) by issue #12.
I have no problem with that idea. Sometimes I think that there should only be a
few regular titles and a whole lot more miniseries's.. so that the writers can
write as the ideas come, and not on a deadline.
I don't know, I think there should be an easier way out when a writer is
temporarily short of ideas on a character other than cancellation... cause once
a title is cancelled, they have to jump through a whole bunch more loops to get
it back.
Of course, they would have to make ways for people to be able to subscribe
directly to miniserieses.
Pariah
Randy Lander
fire...@panix.com (Elayne Wechsler-Chaput) wrote:
>Randy Lander (rwla...@io.com) wrote:
>: cri...@shell15.ba.best.com (Crisper Than Thou) wrote:
>: > Depressingly
>: > enough, my first thought upon reading tyg's post (beating out the damn-I-
>: > was-just-discovering-this thought) was "that'll probably be us in six months
>: > or a year".
>: Yep. It's too the point where I almost hate buying new DC series,
>: because there seems to be this "one year to find an audience or you're
>: toast" mentality among TPTB.
>Why is this mentality a bad thing, Randy? I think any book that doesn't
>find its audience in 12 issues-- an entire YEAR-- probably isn't going to
>find it given any more time. Twelve issues is a heck of a lot longer than
>the PTB *used* to give a book, and I for one applaud this apparent change
>in policy. (Or have y'all forgotten JUSTICE SOCIETY already?)
I'll agree that a year (in general) is enough to find an audience.
It's the in general part that bothers me. I think there needs to be a
recognition that poor marketing can torpedo a good book, and the least
they could do is reinvent a marketing campaign once they realize the
one they've got was at best misrepresentative and at worst actually
damaging.
Both Xero and Scare Tactics suffered from publicity that didn't
properly indicate what the series were about. There's a difference
between "we gave it a year, and it failed" and "we gave it a year, and
we knew it was going to fail from the start," the latter of which I
think applied to Xero as far as TPTB were concerned.
The above are the opinions of Randy Lander. Had they been
the biblical truth, your bushes would be on fire.
---------------------------------------------------------
rwla...@io.com <*> http://www.io.com/~rwlander
Prestorjon
<<Why is this mentality a bad thing, Randy? I think any book that doesn't
find its audience in 12 issues-- an entire YEAR-- probably isn't going to
find it given any more time. Twelve issues is a heck of a lot longer than
the PTB *used* to give a book, and I for one applaud this apparent change
in policy. (Or have y'all forgotten JUSTICE SOCIETY already?) >>
This twelve issue idea only gives support to an idea I had. Basically I
thought that creators should try out series that aren't a sure-fire success as
a mini-series. if it sucedes it can come back as a mini or a monthly. If
not, then at least the fans got everything wrapped up in one story and weren't
left dangling.
Even if its not a mini-series maybe creators should start planning to have
the series resolve itself (mostly anyway) by issue #12.
Prestorjon
<<Surely it is an equally common complaint that white America is _too_
eager to pick up -- nay, to appropriate -- black culture>>
Yeah, If I'm not mistaken the biggest market for "Gangsta" rap is middle class
white kids.
<<I read all the Milestone titles, and I've been reading Xero. But, you know,
all the way through Xero, I've had the feeling that I was trespassing. I
had that feeling with Milestone sometimes (mainly on Blood Syndicate),>>
You felt you were trespassing on Blood Syndicate! I'm about as white-bread as
they can be and I never felt at all self-conscious about liking Blood
Syndicate (my favorite Milestone book. And I wished they'd published the Fade
mini. The script alone made me cry)
<<I thought a "nigger"
must be some kind of lizard, because it says "Catch a nigger by the
_toe_,">>
Where I'm from it was catch a TIGER by the toe
Prestorjon
<<Well, I'm as white as a bowling pin, and I want to be Priest when I grow
up, so that shoots that theory all to hell, don't it?>>
Hell, I'm white too and I think MLK was the greatest American of the twentieth
century (maybe ever)
Prestorjon
<<Yeah, I agree. I think white readers oftenly feel that when a character is
not
white the book is not aimed at them, and therefore they wouldn't like it. It's
kind of like non-white movies... >>
THere were an awful lot of people who felt that Milestone wasn't for them cause
they were white.
DwayneM595
<<You make your heroes all whitey's. Take Superman, he is J.A.H. if you
ask me. Just Another Honkey! He and his kind are made by the white man
to be designed as heroes, with his perfect hair and his white skin. How
come you got this brother from another planet and he's a white man? Is
the white man trying to say that on a perfect planet (krypton) with it's
planet of supermen they all be white? >>
Guys, this is a troll. Don't let the discussion get dragged down to this level.
Dwayne McDuffie
Dwight Williams
I had noticed. However, if such things end up provoking further
*intelligent* discussion(and we seem to have at least one example of such
a response already posted), then the troller may have done us all a good
turn in spite of his/her/its'(assuming we allow for undercover ETs) intent.
Keeping the fingers crossed for Milestone's comeback, BTW, Dwayne...
--
Dwight Williams(ad...@freenet.carleton.ca) -- Orleans, Ontario, Canada
Bradly E. Peterson
N Blanton <npb...@acs.tamu.edu> done said this here deal:
>Listen, white man.. no-body wants to hear some whitebread tell a black
>man the way it is. We know the way it is and it is this - The white man
>and his white America try to ignore the black man.
(Long winded post about how unfair the world is SNIPped)
uh... I think you need to get laid. And quickly. If you're
unhappy with the way life turned out, then go do something about
it. But the first thing that'd really be good to do...
Mellow out.
Thanks
Bradly E. Peterson, Psychodrama Press
(Remove SPAMBLOCK from address to reply)
<http://www.fastlane.net/homepages/drama>
"I stared long and hard into the abyss...
... and saw myself staring back"
"Great spirits have always encountered
violent opposition from mediocre minds"
(Albert Einstein)
Aaron S. Veenstra
In article <634sf7$g...@news.cybernews.net>, SPAMBLO...@fastlane.net wrote:
> Dunno about that. He ain't called "The Dark Knight" for nothing.
> heh... Personally, I'd LOVE to see Batman as a black guy. Oh
> wait, that's Quantum, right? heh...
Well, Quantum does have powers. <seduction of the innocent>Besides, he
and Woody are not a couple.</seduction of the innocent>
Aaron
--
Looking for high quality mind control software for your Mac?
Check out OpenMind 1.0! A demo is available from Etc. House
Productions at http://www.portup.com/~etchouse/openmind/.
Hernan Espinoza
Pariah writes:
>Perhaps so, but it's easy to underestimate what white people have to endure
>sometimes... We don't know what it's like to be non-white.. and when we don't
>understand something(like many white people don't understand affirmative action
>and why its still necessary<Im not one of those people>) we get called a racist
>or are accused of trying to keep white supremecy.
Racial politics is a bitch, no? BTW, it's not just white folks,
think about what Ward Connerly has had to endure for his beliefs or
what the people Unz has gotten to front his education interference
initiative (whoops, I mean anti-biligual education 8-/ )are in for.
For comparison, though, think about what Dr. King had to endure for
opposing something he didn't understand and thought was unecessary.
Names hurt, but sticks and stones break bones, man! 8-)
Anyway, trading hurts is generally unproductive except it allows people
to understand what other people are feeling and gives them some perspective.
Understanding is the key. That's why it's worthwhile to check out
stuff that may not be aimed at you...IMHO, of course.
Re: Mosaic
>I stopped.. but I regret it. I wish I could get the issue's that I'm missing.
Oh yeah? Which one's that? Maybe we can work something out. 8-)
-Hernan, saw some extra ones at his local comics shop
Hernan Espinoza
jken...@himail.hcc.com wrote:
> I read all the Milestone titles, and I've been reading Xero. But, you know,
> all the way through Xero, I've had the feeling that I was trespassing. I
> had that feeling with Milestone sometimes (mainly on Blood Syndicate),
> but it's been more uncomfortable with Xero, because it _isn't_ of an
> in-your-face ghetto/rap/gang mentality; it is, as far as it goes, pretty
> bourgeois, and yet I still get a feeling of "It's a black thang," from it.
Do you think that was the book or you or both?
The way I've always looked at this is that I'm not going to learn
anything worthwhile if I only stick to easy things. Go ahead and keep
"trespassing", that's how we learn. For instance, I'm reading a book
called "Bound Feet and Western Clothes". One could argue the book is
aimed at Chinese-American women, but this mestizo is getting a lot out of
it by "trespassing".
> I suppose that's especially true in my case; I grew up in a small city in
> central Maine, and never even met a non-white until I was 14. On the
> other hand, I literally didn't know there was a race problem until I was
> 8 or so; until the National Guard was sent to Central High in Little Rock
> and I asked my parents what it was all about, I thought the whole
> race issue had been put to bed forever in 1865.
Many more people think it was solved in 1965ish. It wasn't. It got
much, much better during both periods, don't get me wrong, and continues
to do so, but it's not over yet (heck this thread ought to prove it).
> I thought a "nigger"
> must be some kind of lizard, because it says "Catch a nigger by the
> _toe_," so obviously it must be something with toes fairly large
> compared to its body size, and some lizards are like that.... (Hey,
> kids can be damn creative etymologists....)
ROTFLOL! 8-)
>
> I suppose I'm beginning to sound like a "typical white liberal", but it's
> not that either -- nothing de haute en bas. All I know is that there's
> this great big mess about race and it's all tied up in so many knots
> upon knots that I can't figure it out, let alone have any idea of how
> someone else should react.
Welcome to America (but if you do figure it out, let me know) 8-)
> Maybe you can make sense of this raving. I swear I _am_ trying to
> produce more light than heat.
That's a heck of start, if you ask me.
-Hernan
Rabbit
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jken...@himail.hcc.com wrote:
> Is "Steel" too far gone that way? [being too "white" in its approach] To this
> admittedly ignorant white, it seems to be
> pretty well balanced. (Granted, it doesn't aim any higher than being
> an ordinarily good DC superhero comic.)
Why do you pooh-pooh this approach? I'd say this is what works best when it comes to a
cross-cultural comic book. On the other hand, if you're going to make a big deal about
the skin color or ethnic culture of a main character, you'd have to expect that the
readership will be more polarized.
> [When growing up] I thought a "nigger"
> must be some kind of lizard, because it says "Catch a nigger by the
> _toe_," so obviously it must be something with toes fairly large
> compared to its body size, and some lizards are like that.... (Hey,
> kids can be damn creative etymologists....)
You think you were bad...I used that word a lot for exactly the same reason...I had
*absolutely no idea* what the word meant! I assume that, had I ever used it around a
black person, I would have been put straight about it in 2 seconds flat. But when I was
twelve (twelve!), I had to find a rhyme for "bigger" for a poetry assignment. As you
can imagine, my teacher told me the definition pretty darned fast and I was horrified!
--
Read my Metal Men story in the October issue of "Fanzing"
The Independent Internet DC Comics Fan Magazine!!
http://members.aol.com/fanzing
Michael Hutchison <http://www.spacestar.net/users/rabhutch>
Supplemental Web Designer #189 QuikPages 1-612-317-5189
mailto:mhutc...@quikpage.com or mailto:rabh...@spacestar.net
"I have one simple request, and that is to have sharks with frickin'
laserbeams attached to their heads!" --Dr. Evil, "Austin Powers"
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AaronMojo1
>>Listen, white man.. no-body wants to hear some whitebread tell a black
>>man the way it is. We know the way it is and it is this - The white man
>>and his white America try to ignore the black man.
YEAH! Tell it like it AM me brutha! The white man and the whitey-whitebread
America want IGNORE the black man! AND the Bizarro! Us must RISE UP against
tide of WHITE OPPRESSION and FIGHT to claim that which us gots natural right
to! POWER TO THE PEOPLES!
------- Bizarro No. 1 -------
(Me figure since me non-perfect and non-living, gots be non-white too, right?
...Me need one them foam-rubber Cheeseheads.)
[This am been transmission from Bizarro Outernet - Like AOL with TWICE THE
MEMBERS and HALF THE WIT!]
DwayneM595
>> Guys, this is a troll. Don't let the discussion get dragged down to this
>level.
>I had noticed. However, if such things end up provoking further
>*intelligent* discussion(and we seem to have at least one example of >such a
response already posted), then the troller may have done us all a >good turn
in spite of his/her/its'(assuming we allow for undercover ETs) >intent.
Good point. It doesn't always work out so nicely, though. A hint for the Troll
for next time: dialect is best left to Mark Twain and Zora Neil hurston.
almost everybody else who ever tried it in English ended up looking like kind
of a dope. however, if you insist, make your observations from life, not UPN
shows.
>Keeping the fingers crossed for Milestone's comeback, BTW, Dwayne...
Thanks. Milestone's comic's comeback is in the works but a long time off. I, on
the other hand, will have something to announce in the next couple of weeks.
Dwayne McDuffie
DwayneM595
>I thought a "nigger" must be some kind of lizard, because it says "Catch a
>large compared to its body size, and some lizards are like that.... (Hey,
> kids can be damn creative etymologists....)
You mean that DC Group editor was calling me a _lizard_? Man, here I've been
thinking bad things about the guy all these years...
Dwayne McDuffie
Carl Fink
You don't mind being called a lizard?
I'm in the "wasn't really aware of racism" school myself. The only
elementary school teacher who ever taught me anything, Mr. Norman, was
black. I don't really have any memories before the second grade, but
I know I wasn't racist after that -- how could I be prejudiced against
black people? MR. NORMAN was black.
It wasn't until ten years or so later that I realized I'm not "white"
myself. I look as white as anyone, but by American (read
"ridiculous") practice, I'm not, since I have non-European ancestry.
--
Carl Fink ca...@dm.net
Manager, Dueling Modems Computer Forum, <http://dm.net>
Eric Sturgeon
In article <3456BC...@acs.tamu.edu>,
N Blanton <npb...@acs.tamu.edu> wrote:
>Dwayne McDuffie, I guess I shouldn't expect much sympahthy from a racist
>scum bag like you. It's not enough for you to simply not care about the
>plight of the black American, you need to add insult and scorn to your
>apathy as well.
>
You, er, *do* know that Dwayne is black, right? Ah, such a silly
question. Obviously not.
Eric "Stirge" Sturgeon, whose opinion is that people are
people. Wish more people shared that opinion.
Prestorjon
<<Last year there was a big controversy when the college republican party were
considered Nazis for not refuting Pat Buchanon.>>
Oh come on. I mean Pat Buchanan is about as big a racist as you can get and
still be mainstream. I'm sure if he had his druthers it'd be nothing but
white faces from sea to shining sea.
Prestorjon
<<I will confess ignorance on the subject. I was told second-hand (from a
probably
lousy source, come to think of it) that the movies were not meant for me.
>>
Prioabably a bad source. I've only seen two of his movies (Whos Girl Six, and
Clockers) and neither protrayed the white man as the enemy (in fact Harvey
Keitel is the hero of Clockers)
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
N Blanton (npb...@acs.tamu.edu) wrote:
: Dwayne McDuffie, I guess I shouldn't expect much sympahthy from a racist
: scum bag like you.
My God, Elmo was right again. I don't know why I should be surprised.
*plonk*
- Elayne
--
"Very few people possess true artistic ability. It is therefore both
unseemly and unproductive to irritate the situation by making an effort.
If you have a burning, restless urge to write or paint, simply eat
something sweet and the feeling will pass." - Fran Lebowitz
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
Prestorjon (prest...@aol.com) wrote:
: Forgivr a dumb whitey for asking a stupid question but does it even
: matter what color the characters skin is?
Depends on the circumstance. If you have an industry with a history of
not showing black characters in lead roles, yes, it matters to have more
black characters. To speak theoretically and assume we're starting off
with "all things being equal" is to start from a bad premise.
Priest
In article <345556...@risc.usi.edu>, Jim Smith <jams...@risc.usi.edu>
wrote:
: Priest wrote:
:
: > Little black kids, including myself, have grown up wishing they could be
: > Batman and identifying with white heroes. To many white Americans, black
: > heroes are still "The Other," in a way white heroes and culture never
: > could be to us.
:
: Well, I'm as white as a bowling pin, and I want to be Priest when I grow
: up, so that shoots that theory all to hell, don't it?
Silly Jim-- you've ALWAYS been different. :-) BTW-- I don't wish Priest
on anybody.
In article <19971028015...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
prest...@aol.com (Prestorjon) wrote:
: This twelve issue idea only gives support to an idea I had. Basically I
: thought that creators should try out series that aren't a sure-fire
success as
: a mini-series. if it sucedes it can come back as a mini or a monthly.
This was DC's policy for awhile, but the mini-series became an iffy
vehicle. Some fans want to know the company is comitting to a series
before they will.
: If
: not, then at least the fans got everything wrapped up in one story and
weren't
: left dangling.
: Even if its not a mini-series maybe creators should start planning to have
: the series resolve itself (mostly anyway) by issue #12.
Which is exactly what we did for XERO. There exists a Year Two storyline
that we will perhaps not see now, but we developed the book into 12-issue
"TV seasons." And, like TV, the majority of new properties launched never
make it to year two.
We do not anticipate any dangling ends whatsoever. And I hasten to add the
storyline is evolving, for the most part, exactly the way Year One would
have anyway-- there are no short cuts or rushed resolutions. At least
through issue #11, everything happens exactly the way it would have
happened even if we'd gone to Year Two.
In article <636esb$99h$1...@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu>, ma...@po.cwru.edu wrote:
: You might very well be the single dumbest human being on the face of the
: planet. And I had my money on Reagan.
I take personal offense at that Reagan mark. You're an anti-Reganite.
--
christopher j. priest // cheyenne mountain ranch, colorado
"And now you all finally understand why I insist on having a garage with a
door that seals tightly and a properly maintained car with a full gas tank...
--MD Bright on Usenet
Elmo, 12th Earl of Mercia
dwayn...@aol.com (DwayneM595) writes:
>>I thought a "nigger" must be some kind of lizard, because it says "Catch a
> >nigger by the_toe_," so obviously it must be something with toes fairly
> >large compared to its body size, and some lizards are like that.... (Hey,
>> kids can be damn creative etymologists....)
>
> You mean that DC Group editor was calling me a _lizard_? Man, here I've been
> thinking bad things about the guy all these years...
Being a lizard would be cool. You just keep growing your entire life, who
knows how big you could get, and you only have to eat a little bit every
week or so.
Then you get you skin hacked off your body to make somebody's laptop
satchel. So maybe it's not so good.
ObDCU: Killer Croc v. Blockbuster: Who'd Win?
--
"I'd pay a buck just to see the trailer again."--Angelo Benedetto, on
MEN IN BLACK
elmo mor...@physics.rice.edu
http://www.bonner.rice.edu/morrow
Tim Serpas
N Blanton <npb...@acs.tamu.edu> wrote:
>Dwayne McDuffie, I guess I shouldn't expect much sympahthy from a racist
>plight of the black American, you need to add insult and scorn to your
>apathy as well.
Stereotypes ahoy: It takes an Aggie to not realise that someone
named 'Dwayne' is black.
Tim Serpas, American mutt.
wre...@io.com
Jim Smith
N Blanton wrote:
> Dwayne McDuffie, I guess I shouldn't expect much sympahthy from a racist
> scum bag like you.
Entries in the "How the hell did Rob Mclean get a Texas A&M account?"
contest will be accepted until Nov. 30, 1997. The grand prize is a
chance to meet Sherman Helmsley, so I'd hurry up if I was you...
N Blanton
MegaBee of Amber wrote:
>
> [N Blanton's idiotic diatribe about how Dwayne McDuffie is racist towards
> black folk deleted along with the story of opression]
>
> Dwayne's black, you moron! Sheesh, get a clue, troll-baby....
>
> ObComics: Have any characters been mistaken as members of another race,
> whether accidentally or on purpose?
> ----
Oh, yeah.. McDuffie is one hell of a black last name. I always
suspected the roots of my people actually came from Scotland, not
Africa.
This poser is no black man, and the fact that you let yourself be fooled
by his claim makes you the idiot, not me.
Dwayne MacKinnon
DwayneM595 (dwayn...@aol.com) writes:
>>That is them, but you.. you have to laugh at it, as well.
>>You mock me and the pain that comes with the color of my skin, don't
>>you? You smug white motherfucker, how dare you. You can't know what >is like
> to be stared at and feared for no reason. You can't know what it
>>is like to be hated and shunned for no reason other than the color of my
>>ebony skin.
>
> Okay! Now this is _much_ better. You've dropped the dialect and found a more
> believable voice this time out, not to mention coming up with a funnier
> premise.
>
> All in all a strong submission, but I _killed_ Buck Wild about two years ago.
> And at Milestone, dead means dead.
>
> At least I hope it does this time, Christmas!
>
>
> Dwayne McDuffie
Heh heh heh.
I would have to say winner, hands down, best response to a troll for at
least the past month or so. But then, I'm a fan of Dwayne's stuff. Heck,
I've posted on racdu TWICE today, when I normally only lurk... and it's
because of him. Go figure. :)
DMK
--
"You are not the only one who has... strength." - Marrina to Sasquatch,
Alpha Flight #2
Dwayne MacKinnon du...@freenet.carleton.ca
Pariah
In article <19971029081...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, prest...@aol.com
says...
>
>Forgivr a dumb whitey for asking a stupid question but does it even matter what
> character is white or not, just that they're well written. Sometimes I have
> trouble understanding why a black kid looking up to superman should be a bad
> thing. Don't get me wrong, I wish there were more black heroes in comics (and
> Hispanics, and Asians, and Native Americans etc), but my question is why
> should a black kid identify more with a black heroe than with a white hero? I
> mean wasn't that what all that marching back in the sixties was about? Not
> caring about race.
>Didn't some guy say "not by the color of their skin but by the content of their
> character."?
Such a simple question should have a simple question. The differences range from
economics to culture. White people generally have more money (which is a
biproduct of slavery), which leaves non-whites saying that is not fair (which it
is not)... whites resent having to give money to people who either aren't
working (a in welfare) or do not academically equal or better whites
(affirmative actions). Non-whites need a boost because they already have the
crutch of economics as well as the problem of (at least) de facto racism. As for
the culture part, I doubt I have to explain that.
Pariah