Any Christian Superheroes?

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Gustavo Wombat

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Apr 22, 2004, 3:03:34 PM4/22/04
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I can't think of any major superheroes that strongly believe in any
real faith, and that surprises me. Certainly not in the DC Universe.

I think there are more minority superheros than religious ones.

Not that I want to see "The Teen Titans" become "The Christian
Crusaders, with their Happy Hindu friend and wacky Orthodox Jew
sidekick", but seems unrealistic that there would be none.

I'm not religious myself, but I know that for a large chunk of the
population, faith is an important part of their lives.

Huntress has a Christian Prostitute wardrobe, but that's about as far
is it goes. She isn't defined or motivated by her faith.

There would seem to be a lot of untapped ground for storytelling. I
wonder why it hasn't happened. So, what do you think: Agnostic/Athiest
writers trying to force their worldview on impressionable children, or
writers shying away from something that could be handled very badly
and offensively?

I, for one, would like to see some character get revamped as a Born
Again Christian, rather than the usual darker, angrier more violent
version. And not a religious zealot either -- tolerent, although
perhaps disapproving at times.

Plus, it would give writers a chance to answer the question that I
know we've all been pondering: "Did Jesus die for Superman's sins?"

--Gustavo

arnold kim

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Apr 22, 2004, 3:31:00 PM4/22/04
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"Gustavo Wombat" <Gustav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6dc8909e.04042...@posting.google.com...

> I can't think of any major superheroes that strongly believe in any
> real faith, and that surprises me. Certainly not in the DC Universe.

Nothing I can think of from DC or Marvel, and the only one that I can think
of at all is Ben Dunn's Warrior Nun Areala (Antarctic Press).

Arnold Kim


Brian Doyle

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Apr 22, 2004, 3:36:40 PM4/22/04
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"Gustavo Wombat" <Gustav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6dc8909e.04042...@posting.google.com...
> I'm not religious myself, but I know that for a large chunk of the
> population, faith is an important part of their lives.
>
> Huntress has a Christian Prostitute wardrobe, but that's about as far
> is it goes. She isn't defined or motivated by her faith.

She's definitely Catholic, as evinced many times in her appearances, and
attends Mass too I think.

Nightcrawler is devoutly Catholic and Kitty Pryde is Jewish

The Titans discuss their faith in the first Brother Blood arc. IIRC Dick
states he believes but doesn't attend a church, and Wally is in much the
same situation, but is less certain

Deadman believes in a deity called Rama Kushna (Whom he has had
conversations with)

Nightshade is also a Catholic, and regularly took confession with the priest
assigned to the Suicide Squad.


David Doty

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Apr 22, 2004, 3:45:41 PM4/22/04
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Gustav...@yahoo.com (Gustavo Wombat) wrote in
news:6dc8909e.04042...@posting.google.com:

> There would seem to be a lot of untapped ground for storytelling. I
> wonder why it hasn't happened. So, what do you think: Agnostic/Athiest
> writers trying to force their worldview on impressionable children, or
> writers shying away from something that could be handled very badly
> and offensively?

Or 3) agnostic/athiest writers who aren't trying to force a worldview on
anyone, but aren't interested in writing about religion, either.

The GA Plastic Man's origin always seemed to me to be a story of religious
conversion, with the religion strangely blacked out. Criminal is fatally
wounded, nursed back to health by monks whose goodness convinces him to
change the course of his life? Sounds like a conversion experience to me.

Dave Doty


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Mark J. Reed

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Apr 22, 2004, 4:07:07 PM4/22/04
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"Brian Doyle" <No_...@freeserve.co.uk> writes:

>[Huntress is] definitely Catholic, as evinced many times in her appearances,


>and attends Mass too I think.

>Nightcrawler is devoutly Catholic and Kitty Pryde is Jewish

Ever-lovin' blue-eyed Benjamin J. Grimm is also Jewish - by heritage
and childhood, if not by present practice.

>Wally is in much the same situation [as Nightwing], but is less certain

That would be before Wally discovered that God is really the Speed Force, and
Uncle Barry was the Messiah! Oh, wait, that never happened. Moving on . . .

Pre-Crisis, Superman worshipped (or studied and made use of rituals from the
worship of, at least) a god named Rao. Rao was apparently a Kryptonian
Sun-God, although it was implied several times that "Rao" was in fact the
Kryptonian name for the same One True God(TM) in which Terran Jews, Christians,
and Muslims believe. Post-Crisis, Supes has mentioned Rao - royally set
Zeus off once just by saying the name! Was that ever explored? - but hasn't
been seen to be active in Rao-worship. In the PZ Krypton storyline the
bad-guy movers and shakers were a Rao cult, IIRC.

What was Clark and Lois's wedding ritual, btw? Non-religious?
Non-denominational Christian? Something else? (Pre-Crisis, I don't recall any
details about Lois's wedding to CLARK on Earth-2, but there was a separate
ceremony in the Fortress with Superman done according to the Kryptonian
tradition. I still remember the lines "In the name of Rao, who shaped the sun,
. . ." (the bride's answer had "moons" in place of "sun". Maybe that whole
Sun=Man Moon=Woman thing was part of Kryptonian tradition, too, although it
seems unlikely somehow :)).

-Mark

Daibhid Ceannaideach

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Apr 22, 2004, 4:07:40 PM4/22/04
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>
>From: Gustav...@yahoo.com (Gustavo Wombat)
>Date: 22/04/04 20:03 GMT Daylight Time
>Message-id: <6dc8909e.04042...@posting.google.com>
>
>I can't think of any major superheroes that strongly believe in any
>real faith, and that surprises me. Certainly not in the DC Universe.

In additions to the ones others mentioned, I thought of Zauriel, but I'm not
sure he *is* religious, as we'd understand it. Religion is an interpratation of
a truth that he actually *knows*.

--
Dave
The Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
Four-and-twenty Lib Dems came down from Inverness,
And when the vote was counted there were four-and-twenty less.
-Rory Bremner, 7/3/04

GBrycki

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Apr 22, 2004, 4:17:05 PM4/22/04
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>I can't think of any major superheroes that strongly believe in any
>real faith, and that surprises me. Certainly not in the DC Universe.
>
>I think there are more minority superheros than religious ones.


Black Lightning, as written by his creator (pardon the pun), Tony Isabella, was
a devout Christian, IIRC. Too bad DC decided to throw that out and make him a
cold-blooded murderer....

http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/features/107042750449064.htm


Anyhow...you might be interested in Mark Millar's forthcoming, "Chosen". To
read a bit about it, please go here...

http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/features/107419514831683.htm

...and scroll down a bit.


Enjoy!
BRY

CleV

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Apr 22, 2004, 4:18:17 PM4/22/04
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On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:36:40 +0100, "Brian Doyle"
<No_...@freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

>"Gustavo Wombat" <Gustav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:6dc8909e.04042...@posting.google.com...

>> I'm not religious myself, but I know that for a large chunk of the
>> population, faith is an important part of their lives.

>> Huntress has a Christian Prostitute wardrobe, but that's about as far
>> is it goes. She isn't defined or motivated by her faith.

>She's definitely Catholic, as evinced many times in her appearances, and
>attends Mass too I think.

>Nightcrawler is devoutly Catholic and Kitty Pryde is Jewish

Marvel has plenty of (real-world) religious characters: Wolfsbane,
Firebird ...

Daibhid Ceannaideach

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Apr 22, 2004, 4:51:52 PM4/22/04
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From: Mark J. Reed mr...@thereeds.org
Date: 22/04/04 21:07 GMT Daylight Time

>What was Clark and Lois's wedding ritual, btw? Non-religious?
>Non-denominational Christian? Something else?

The officiator (if that's the word) was a Protastant minister, I think, but
there wasn't anything specific to one religion in the ceremony, and it took
place in the decidedly non-denominational Metropolis Chapel of United Faiths.

Johanna Draper Carlson

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Apr 22, 2004, 5:41:54 PM4/22/04
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Gustav...@yahoo.com (Gustavo Wombat) wrote:

> So, what do you think: Agnostic/Athiest writers trying to force their
> worldview on impressionable children, or writers shying away from
> something that could be handled very badly and offensively?

Companies not wanting to raise the issue, out of fear of losing readers
(either through offending someone, or by having people say "I'm not
(Particular Faith), I don't want to read about someone who is").

--
Johanna Draper Carlson
Reviews of Comics Worth Reading -- http://www.comicsworthreading.com
Blogging at http://www.comicsworthreading.com/blog/cwr.html

David Doty

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Apr 22, 2004, 5:51:21 PM4/22/04
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O'Course, the Spectre was Christian, even if there were bits of other
faiths mixed in. At least, before J.M. DeMatteis wrote him. Hal Jordan
probably became a Hindu.

Jesse Custer... uh, believes that God exists.

Swamp Thing met Jes... nevermind.

I think Donna Troy went to church once.

Justin Garrett Blum

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Apr 22, 2004, 6:15:46 PM4/22/04
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Martian Manhunter has been shown to venerate a set of Martian gods--the most
prominent of which is H'ronmeer, the Martian god of, I think, death and
fire. He also venerates his ancestors. I'd never have remembered this except
I just reread a comic yesterday in which this is mentioned.

Regards,
Justin
http://www.uatu.net

"Gustavo Wombat" <Gustav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6dc8909e.04042...@posting.google.com...

Jeremy Henderson

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Apr 22, 2004, 6:03:37 PM4/22/04
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On 22 Apr 2004 12:03:34 -0700, Gustav...@yahoo.com (Gustavo
Wombat) wrote:

>I can't think of any major superheroes that strongly believe in any
>real faith, and that surprises me. Certainly not in the DC Universe.
>
>I think there are more minority superheros than religious ones.
>
>Not that I want to see "The Teen Titans" become "The Christian
>Crusaders, with their Happy Hindu friend and wacky Orthodox Jew
>sidekick", but seems unrealistic that there would be none.
>
>I'm not religious myself, but I know that for a large chunk of the
>population, faith is an important part of their lives.

Huh, no one's brought up Daredevil yet, who's faith has often played a
prominent role in his own comic.

Brian Doyle

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Apr 22, 2004, 5:42:20 PM4/22/04
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"Daibhid Ceannaideach" <daibhidc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040422160740...@mb-m04.aol.com...

> >
> >From: Gustav...@yahoo.com (Gustavo Wombat)
> >Date: 22/04/04 20:03 GMT Daylight Time
> >Message-id: <6dc8909e.04042...@posting.google.com>
> >
> >I can't think of any major superheroes that strongly believe in any
> >real faith, and that surprises me. Certainly not in the DC Universe.
>
> In additions to the ones others mentioned, I thought of Zauriel, but I'm
not
> sure he *is* religious, as we'd understand it. Religion is an
interpratation of
> a truth that he actually *knows*.

There was a nice conversation between Magma and Empath one time, when she
tells him about meeting Hercules. He ponders whose faith is greater, her's,
because she has met one of her deities (Well, demi-deity, but you get the
idea), or his, because he has faith in something he's never seen (Despite
the fact that Empath was a sociopathic sadist up until about this point
(Thank you Ms Simonson!) and was about as Un-Christian as it's possible to
imagine)


Brian Doyle

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Apr 22, 2004, 6:24:43 PM4/22/04
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"Johanna Draper Carlson" <johann...@comicsworthreading.com> wrote in
message news:johannaNOSPAM-CBC...@news.fu-berlin.de...

> Gustav...@yahoo.com (Gustavo Wombat) wrote:
>
> > So, what do you think: Agnostic/Athiest writers trying to force their
> > worldview on impressionable children, or writers shying away from
> > something that could be handled very badly and offensively?
>
> Companies not wanting to raise the issue, out of fear of losing readers
> (either through offending someone, or by having people say "I'm not
> (Particular Faith), I don't want to read about someone who is").

Strange how many villains are seemingly empowered by demons, and how few
heroes are seemingly empowered by God (Well, not in the same, "Hands on"
approach as say Sabbac or Mephisto.)


Brian Doyle

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Apr 22, 2004, 6:23:36 PM4/22/04
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"Justin Garrett Blum" <uatuthe...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mNidnQbMC_W...@comcast.com...

> Martian Manhunter has been shown to venerate a set of Martian gods--the
most
> prominent of which is H'ronmeer, the Martian god of, I think, death and
> fire.

There's also a God of Dreams, IIRC, which is how he percieves Morpheus the
Sandman (Morpheus was touched by his faith, and granted him a specific dream
of a specific place, which J'onn seemed honoured by)


Sigbjørn Berntzen

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Apr 22, 2004, 8:09:44 PM4/22/04
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I seem to remember that Barry Allen was a Christian.
He may have been Catholic, but that's a bit fuzzy in my memory.

And the Spectre (Jim Corrigan) was resurrected by God directly IIRC so
he kind of HAD to be.

Northstar72

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Apr 22, 2004, 8:23:40 PM4/22/04
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Nobody has mentioned Wonder Woman yet?
Granted she's not Christian but Diana does worship the Greek Deities.

"Jeremy Henderson" <hel...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:v8gg80d93646ftsg7...@4ax.com...

Peter Henrikson

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Apr 22, 2004, 8:43:41 PM4/22/04
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"Gustavo Wombat" <Gustav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6dc8909e.04042...@posting.google.com...

A couple thoughts

Thor would have to believe in his faith. So there is at least one. (Is that
what you meant by "certainly not in the DC universe")

As to why we don't see them. There is an expression "Never discuss religion
or politics". Presumable because it will always lead to a disagreement at
the least and a major blowout is not uncommon. Some things people believe so
strongly that nothing will sway them. If you suggest that they may be wrong,
it won't be taken well.DC and Marvel are avoiding the issue so as not to
piss off half of their readers. (although they don't seem to be too averse
to stating an opinion on the political issues)

Pete


Peter Henrikson

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Apr 22, 2004, 8:43:45 PM4/22/04
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"Gustavo Wombat" <Gustav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6dc8909e.04042...@posting.google.com...

Just happened to think of a couple more.

I think the Spectre would be pretty religious.

Some one mentioned Plastic Man's origin, So I think Dr. Strange might
qualify as his back story is similar.

Dave Menard

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Apr 22, 2004, 10:04:01 PM4/22/04
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"Peter Henrikson" <peterhe...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1FZhc.16502$GR.2387145@attbi_s01...

It's likely because politics are seen as something about which reasonable
men may reasonably disagree- but when you get in to issues of religion, many
folks are still of the feeling that to disagree with their particular
faith/sect/cult/holy books is to court damnation.

Dave


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Dan McEwen

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Apr 22, 2004, 10:24:55 PM4/22/04
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> I can't think of any major superheroes that strongly believe in any


> real faith, and that surprises me. Certainly not in the DC Universe.

Obsidian was a veritfied Catholic while Jade was Protestant (but no
particular denomination named). This information came out of one of the
earlier issues of Infinity, Inc.

> I think there are more minority superheros than religious ones.

It's hard to say. The major heroes don't get into this because comic
writers are probably worried about offending people. Minor heroes (or
those without their own books) don't have the chance to let you know
about their religious affiliations (or lack of).

> Not that I want to see "The Teen Titans" become "The Christian
> Crusaders, with their Happy Hindu friend and wacky Orthodox Jew
> sidekick", but seems unrealistic that there would be none.

Atom-Smasher is Jewish. There was a member of JLE named Maya who was, I
think, Hindu.

> I'm not religious myself, but I know that for a large chunk of the
> population, faith is an important part of their lives.
>
> Huntress has a Christian Prostitute wardrobe, but that's about as far
> is it goes. She isn't defined or motivated by her faith.

Do we know that? (I don't, because I haven't read anything with her in
it outside of the first issue of her series and her appearances in JLA.)

> There would seem to be a lot of untapped ground for storytelling. I
> wonder why it hasn't happened. So, what do you think: Agnostic/Athiest
> writers trying to force their worldview on impressionable children, or
> writers shying away from something that could be handled very badly
> and offensively?
>
> I, for one, would like to see some character get revamped as a Born
> Again Christian, rather than the usual darker, angrier more violent
> version. And not a religious zealot either -- tolerent, although
> perhaps disapproving at times.

I'd rather not have the Born Again Christian, but instead someone who
has a solid faith and who is willing to show it.

> Plus, it would give writers a chance to answer the question that I
> know we've all been pondering: "Did Jesus die for Superman's sins?"

We all know he did. He came (again), died, and arose to help us.

Dan McEwen

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Apr 22, 2004, 10:50:33 PM4/22/04
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"Peter Henrikson" <peterhe...@comcast.net> wrote in
news:1FZhc.16502$GR.2387145@attbi_s01:

> A couple thoughts
>
> Thor would have to believe in his faith. So there is at least one. (Is
> that what you meant by "certainly not in the DC universe")

This sort of goes against the idea of "faith". Thor doesn't have a
faith associated with him. He's just there. Since an ever-growing
number of stories have him act as nothing more than an average child
(super-powered, of course), it's hard to imagine he sees himself as
anything other than just a person.

> As to why we don't see them. There is an expression "Never discuss
> religion or politics". Presumable because it will always lead to a
> disagreement at the least and a major blowout is not uncommon. Some
> things people believe so strongly that nothing will sway them. If you
> suggest that they may be wrong, it won't be taken well.DC and Marvel
> are avoiding the issue so as not to piss off half of their readers.
> (although they don't seem to be too averse to stating an opinion on
> the political issues)

True, but being highly political in comics seems to be fairly new. It
could be that views on religious expression will change.

David Doty

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Apr 22, 2004, 10:56:53 PM4/22/04
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Dan McEwen <dannyb...@hotmail.com> wrote in news:c6a09i$9jmds$6@ID-
177615.news.uni-berlin.de:

> True, but being highly political in comics seems to be fairly new. It
> could be that views on religious expression will change.

Depends on what you mean by "new." The highly political Green
Lantern/Green Arrow, often cited as a turning point in DC's approach to
comics with its "relevance", came out in 1970.

Mr Vo

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Apr 22, 2004, 11:32:25 PM4/22/04
to

> I can't think of any major superheroes that strongly believe in any


> real faith, and that surprises me. Certainly not in the DC Universe.

Pre-Crisis, Gim Allon - Colossal Boy was Jewish.

Brother Voodoo is rather obvious with his faith.


Duggy

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Apr 23, 2004, 12:48:44 AM4/23/04
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On 22 Apr 2004, David Doty wrote:
>Jesse Custer... uh, believes that God exists.

Jesse Custer believed that God existed.


===
= DUG.
===

Duggy

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Apr 23, 2004, 12:51:58 AM4/23/04
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On 22 Apr 2004, David Doty wrote:
>O'Course, the Spectre was Christian, even if there were bits of other
>faiths mixed in. At least, before J.M. DeMatteis wrote him. Hal Jordan
>probably became a Hindu.

Although, one assumes was Catholic before he died to end up in Purgitory.

===
= DUG.
===

Peter Henrikson

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Apr 23, 2004, 2:18:53 AM4/23/04
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"Dan McEwen" <dannyb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c6a09i$9jmds$6...@ID-177615.news.uni-berlin.de...

> "Peter Henrikson" <peterhe...@comcast.net> wrote in
> news:1FZhc.16502$GR.2387145@attbi_s01:
>
> > A couple thoughts
> >
> > Thor would have to believe in his faith. So there is at least one. (Is
> > that what you meant by "certainly not in the DC universe")
>
> This sort of goes against the idea of "faith". Thor doesn't have a
> faith associated with him. He's just there. Since an ever-growing
> number of stories have him act as nothing more than an average child
> (super-powered, of course), it's hard to imagine he sees himself as
> anything other than just a person.

I'm assuming a bit here but, since Thor is a scandanavian god wouldn't there
be a religion or faith with people who worship him? (with a name like
Henrikson, I should know more about this subject. :^) ) Of course, since
Thor knows for a fact that he's a god, faith might not be an accurate term.


>
> > As to why we don't see them. There is an expression "Never discuss
> > religion or politics". Presumable because it will always lead to a
> > disagreement at the least and a major blowout is not uncommon. Some
> > things people believe so strongly that nothing will sway them. If you
> > suggest that they may be wrong, it won't be taken well.DC and Marvel
> > are avoiding the issue so as not to piss off half of their readers.
> > (although they don't seem to be too averse to stating an opinion on
> > the political issues)
>
> True, but being highly political in comics seems to be fairly new. It
> could be that views on religious expression will change.
>

Perhaps they are already, since the Fantastic Four went to heaven to meet
God an issue or two ago. (Who God turned out to be not withstanding)

Pete


Peter Bruells

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Apr 23, 2004, 2:49:04 AM4/23/04
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"arnold kim" <arno...@optonline.net> writes:

> "Gustavo Wombat" <Gustav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:6dc8909e.04042...@posting.google.com...

> > I can't think of any major superheroes that strongly believe in any
> > real faith, and that surprises me. Certainly not in the DC Universe.
>

> Nothing I can think of from DC or Marvel, and the only one that I can think
> of at all is Ben Dunn's Warrior Nun Areala (Antarctic Press).

Err.. Did you forget about Nightcrawler, a devout catholic who at some
times was even a priest?

Peter Bruells

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Apr 23, 2004, 2:52:39 AM4/23/04
to
Mark J. Reed <mr...@thereeds.org> writes:

> "Brian Doyle" <No_...@freeserve.co.uk> writes:
>
> >[Huntress is] definitely Catholic, as evinced many times in her appearances,
> >and attends Mass too I think.
>
> >Nightcrawler is devoutly Catholic and Kitty Pryde is Jewish
>
> Ever-lovin' blue-eyed Benjamin J. Grimm is also Jewish - by heritage
> and childhood, if not by present practice.
>
> >Wally is in much the same situation [as Nightwing], but is less certain
>
> That would be before Wally discovered that God is really the Speed Force, and
> Uncle Barry was the Messiah! Oh, wait, that never happened. Moving on . . .
>

> Pre-Crisis, Superman worshipped (or studied and made use of rituals
> from the worship of, at least) a god named Rao. Rao was apparently
> a Kryptonian Sun-God, although it was implied several times that
> "Rao" was in fact the Kryptonian name for the same One True God(TM)
> in which Terran Jews, Christians, and Muslims believe.

I always thought that this was pretty clear. Rao used to be a sun-god,
but later experienced a shift in terminolgy and become a symbol for
"God". The Krypton Miniseries even repeated the Noah's ark story and
IIRC there once was a Kryptonian Jesus Christ analogue, a bringer of
peace who died for his belief in peace, love and understanding.


> Post-Crisis, Supes has mentioned Rao - royally set Zeus off once
> just by saying the name!

Cool. When did that happen?

Peter Bruells

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Apr 23, 2004, 2:56:16 AM4/23/04
to
David Doty <dave...@hotmail.com> writes:

> The GA Plastic Man's origin always seemed to me to be a story of religious
> conversion, with the religion strangely blacked out. Criminal is fatally
> wounded, nursed back to health by monks whose goodness convinces him to
> change the course of his life? Sounds like a conversion experience to me.

Not necessarily. I'm atheistic, but I've no problem in seing the
goodness in Christian (and others) deeds and consider it normal to
work together with all who have ethical standards and ideas of helping
their common man. As long as joining them isn't a prerequiste of
receiving this help or working with them on projects, that is,

Nick Eden

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Apr 23, 2004, 3:28:43 AM4/23/04
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On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 02:09:44 +0200, Sigbjørn Berntzen
<sbe...@online.no> wrote:

>I seem to remember that Barry Allen was a Christian.
>He may have been Catholic, but that's a bit fuzzy in my memory.

It seems to be ground rule that Christians in comics almost always
are.

I have a suspicion that this is because the founding fathers of the
American Comics industry are so very often Jewish that Catholicism is
the easily identifiable alternative. Low church protestants don't have
as many obvious shticks.

FWIW: Cannonball was at least sometimes southern Baptist.
-------------------------------------
York BSAC Web Page:
http://website.lineone.net/~york_bsac

AJSolis

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Apr 23, 2004, 5:12:37 AM4/23/04
to
Let's see, there's the jewish Shadowcat, Firebird is christian. Storm is
probably still a pagan. There's shaman from alpha flight, naturally a believer
in shamanism.
Don't the atlanteans still venerate the greek gods in DC? I've gotten that
impression anyway (Aquaman didn't seem to have any problem interacting with the
greek gods). Namor of the marvel atlantis seems to venerate the greek gods
anyway. Wonder Girl has apparantly taken up the worship of the greek gods,
or pretty close to it anyway.
Is Hawkman still a follower of the egyptian gods?

David Doty

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Apr 23, 2004, 8:42:00 AM4/23/04
to
nu...@localhost.com (Nick Eden) wrote in
news:e7hh80hnne524b0pv...@4ax.com:

> I have a suspicion that this is because the founding fathers of the
> American Comics industry are so very often Jewish that Catholicism is
> the easily identifiable alternative.

I think it's more likely because Catholicism providing more good visuals
and story hooks. (What few religious-themed stories we have seem to
revolve around confessionals to an unusual degree.)

Brian Doyle

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Apr 23, 2004, 1:09:25 PM4/23/04
to

"AJSolis" <ajs...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040423051237...@mb-m10.aol.com...

> There's shaman from alpha flight, naturally a believer in shamanism.

A very reluctant convert IIRC. He was a scientist who rejected the concept
of magic for manyyears before eventually find his role.


Brian Doyle

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Apr 23, 2004, 1:12:40 PM4/23/04
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"Gustavo Wombat" <Gustav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6dc8909e.04042...@posting.google.com...
> I can't think of any major superheroes that strongly believe in any
> real faith, and that surprises me. Certainly not in the DC Universe.
>

The Brother Blood wears something which is apparently the Robe of Christ,
though it's power has been corrupted by his intents.

The Phantom Stranger is tied in with God in some respect, various origins
have included him being an angel who stayed neutral when Lucifer rebelled
(And thus being accepted by neither side) and another that he is the
legendary Wandering Jew.

And how could I have forgotten Marvel's one attempt to create a definitely
God-empowered character; Illuminator, an actively Christian hero whose power
came from a force of Universal goodness that was, IIRC, God. Lasted two
issues, I believe.


Bill Bickel

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Apr 23, 2004, 4:04:37 PM4/23/04
to

"Nick Eden" <nu...@localhost.com> wrote in message
news:e7hh80hnne524b0pv...@4ax.com...

> On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 02:09:44 +0200, Sigbjørn Berntzen
> <sbe...@online.no> wrote:
>
> >I seem to remember that Barry Allen was a Christian.
> >He may have been Catholic, but that's a bit fuzzy in my memory.
>
> It seems to be ground rule that Christians in comics almost always
> are.
>
> I have a suspicion that this is because the founding fathers of the
> American Comics industry are so very often Jewish that Catholicism is
> the easily identifiable alternative. Low church protestants don't have
> as many obvious shticks.

A similar explanation: Middle-America demographics to the contrary, Jews
growing up in "Metropolis" are likely to come into contact with far more
Catholics than any other Christians. I personally went through elementary
school believing this was the norm.

Bill Bickel
http://www.comicsidontunderstand.com
http://www.missing-kids.us
http://www.lawsuit-of-the-week.com


John Adcox

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Apr 23, 2004, 4:22:16 PM4/23/04
to
I also remember in the Wolfman/Perez era Titans that Wally West was a
"believer," even though he didn't go to church often. It was in one of the
Brother Blood issues.

John
___
John Adcox

Click below for Mythology, Philosophy, Literature, Writing References and more.
http://jadcox.home.mindspring.com

Dreighton

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Apr 23, 2004, 7:01:04 PM4/23/04
to
In the latest JSA Dr. Mid-Nite goes into a church (looks very
Catholic) and prays, then has a discussion with Mr. Terrific about
Faith and God.

The Spectre is the "Redemption" of God, or the "Wrath of God"
depending on old or new. I always took the original Spectre to being
hard core damnation christian. (which is only a small part of the
Christian message, but the part that is most dramatic, and thus sadly
emphasised....the real Good News is God loving us, living as one of
us, and paying the price for our sins..which is death, on himself,
just so we can be with him, and him with us)

Huntress wears a cross, and has refered to her Faith in God.

Daredevil has prayed and is very Catholic. A whole arc by Miller was
intitled "Born Again" and used heavy Christain symbolism. The first
arc of the relaunch by Quesada was about the Catholic church.

Captain America has been generic Christian and Jewish or agnostic
depending on the writer at the time.

Shadowcat/Kitty Pride is Jewish, and wore (wears?) a Star of David.

Cannonball has talked about attending church (assumed Protestent since
he's from Kentucky).

Sunspot was a Catholic.

Shang-Chi(sp?), the Master of Kung-Fu is a Buddest.

On a related side note: I'm amazed at how few characters/heroes have
been motivated by their faith especially a Christian faith. One of
the main tenents of the Christian faith is loving and helping others.
Since heroes do that (help others) I would think more would have the
"why do they do what they do" being part their faith. Also,as a
Christian, one of the things we are taught is we all have "talents" or
gifts from God, and what we do with those talents is our gift back to
God. I would think some "heroes" would use their super powered gifts
as gifts back to God.

Dreighton

Clell Harmon

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Apr 23, 2004, 7:10:12 PM4/23/04
to

arnold kim wrote:
> "Gustavo Wombat" <Gustav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:6dc8909e.04042...@posting.google.com...
>
>>I can't think of any major superheroes that strongly believe in any
>>real faith, and that surprises me. Certainly not in the DC Universe.
>
>

> Nothing I can think of from DC or Marvel, and the only one that I can think
> of at all is Ben Dunn's Warrior Nun Areala (Antarctic Press).
>

> Well, NightCrawler was in the process of becoming a Catholic Priest
there for a while, just off the top of my head.

Clell Harmon

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Apr 23, 2004, 7:16:05 PM4/23/04
to

AJSolis wrote:

> Let's see, there's the jewish Shadowcat, Firebird is christian. Storm is
> probably still a pagan. There's shaman from alpha flight, naturally a believer
> in shamanism.

Shamanism? Is that a word?

Brian Doyle

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Apr 23, 2004, 7:43:52 PM4/23/04
to

"Clell Harmon" <clell_...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Vshic.6849$eZ5....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...

>
>
> AJSolis wrote:
>
> > Let's see, there's the jewish Shadowcat, Firebird is christian.
Storm is
> > probably still a pagan. There's shaman from alpha flight, naturally a
believer
> > in shamanism.
>
> Shamanism? Is that a word?

Yes.

Peter Henrikson

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Apr 23, 2004, 7:57:52 PM4/23/04
to

"Dreighton" <dbda...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d41de28c.04042...@posting.google.com...

>
> On a related side note: I'm amazed at how few characters/heroes have
> been motivated by their faith especially a Christian faith. One of
> the main tenents of the Christian faith is loving and helping others.
> Since heroes do that (help others) I would think more would have the
> "why do they do what they do" being part their faith. Also,as a
> Christian, one of the things we are taught is we all have "talents" or
> gifts from God, and what we do with those talents is our gift back to
> God. I would think some "heroes" would use their super powered gifts
> as gifts back to God.

It might be that they do but they practice humility and don't ever talk
about it. (Although there are thought balloons in comics.)

Pete

>
> Dreighton


WRH Bill

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Apr 23, 2004, 8:08:58 PM4/23/04
to
Kurt Busiek's ASTRO CITY series has a superhero team called the "Crossbreed"
which is explicitly Christian, though they've only appeared in the background
and not (so far at least) been the major focus of a storyline. In the one
significant appearance by them that I recall, where they helped Altar Boy, the
kid sidekick of the vampire-hero Confessor, the Crossbreed were portrayed
positively, not as religious fanatics as Christians tend to be stereotyped.

Come to think of it,, the Confessor himself was originally a Catholic priest
who is bitten by a vampire but tries to continue doing good despite his
"undead" status. You might want to look up the TPB of that Astro City storyline
(I think the title is "Confession").


"You can't kill the truth. Well, actually, you CAN kill it...but it'll come
back to haunt you later." (Capt. John Sheridan)

WRH Bill

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Apr 23, 2004, 8:13:15 PM4/23/04
to
>Thor is a scandanavian god wouldn't there
>be a religion or faith with people who worship him? (with a name like
>Henrikson, I should know more about this subject. :^) ) Of course, since
>Thor knows for a fact that he's a god, faith might not be an accurate term.

The issue of Marvel's Thor being worshipped as an actual god was pretty much
ignored in the series until recently, but current Thor writer Dan Jurgens has
gotten heavily into it in the last couple of years, with a storyline in which
Thor, who has replaced Odin as ruler of Asgard, brings Asgard to Earth and sets
himself up as ruler of Earth for its own good. A Thor cult is started, based
on Thor actually being able to perform "miracles" for the people of Earth, and
it comes into conflict, eventually violent, with Christianity and other
established religions.

Mark J. Reed

unread,
Apr 23, 2004, 8:35:37 PM4/23/04
to
wrh...@aol.com (WRH Bill) writes:
>Kurt Busiek's ASTRO CITY series has a superhero team called the "Crossbreed"
>... the Crossbreed were portrayed positively, not as religious fanatics as

>Christians tend to be stereotyped.

Good. But the origin of the stereotype isn't hard to spot - the non-fanatic
Christians don't tend to be very visible in the media. Squeaky wheels and all
that. So most non-Christians probably have a very slanted view of Christianity,
imagining that the Fallwells and Robertsons are typical.

>"You can't kill the truth. Well, actually, you CAN kill it...but it'll come
>back to haunt you later." (Capt. John Sheridan)

The thread topic plus your B5 quote combine to remind me of the
"What is Earth's religion?" episode (pre-Sheridan), in which we find out
that Earth is apparently unique among the galactic civilizations in not
having a single religion shared by all Terrans.

Duggy

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Apr 23, 2004, 9:41:56 PM4/23/04
to
On 24 Apr 2004, WRH Bill wrote:
>Kurt Busiek's ASTRO CITY series has a superhero team called the "Crossbreed"
>which is explicitly Christian, though they've only appeared in the background
>and not (so far at least) been the major focus of a storyline. In the one
>significant appearance by them that I recall, where they helped Altar Boy, the
>kid sidekick of the vampire-hero Confessor, the Crossbreed were portrayed
>positively, not as religious fanatics as Christians tend to be stereotyped.

Actually that was the point of their characterisation, they were portrayed
as fanatics - handing out pamphlets on a street corner and unliked by a
population that saw them as pushy, but later appeared as good people.

===
= DUG.
===

Duggy

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Apr 23, 2004, 9:43:42 PM4/23/04
to
On Sat, 24 Apr 2004, Mark J. Reed wrote:
>The thread topic plus your B5 quote combine to remind me of the
>"What is Earth's religion?" episode (pre-Sheridan), in which we find out
>that Earth is apparently unique among the galactic civilizations in not
>having a single religion shared by all Terrans.

I thought it was unique in that it embraced the differences (remember the
Centuri had many religions, house gods and the like - but had wiped out
the other major race on the planet (Not that humans didn't))

===
= DUG.
===

CleV

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Apr 23, 2004, 9:37:56 PM4/23/04
to

>> AJSolis wrote:

>Yes.

But it's more a thing you do, isn't it, not a belief.

Brenda W. Clough

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Apr 23, 2004, 9:53:44 PM4/23/04
to
Dreighton wrote:


I haven't been following this thread closely, but someone surely has
mentioned Zauriel, who was an angel of the Heavenly Host.

Brenda

--
---------
Brenda W. Clough
http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda/

Recent short fiction: PARADOX, Autumn 2003
http://home.nyc.rr.com/paradoxmag//index.html

Upcoming short fiction in FIRST HEROES (TOR, May '04)
http://members.aol.com/wenamun/firstheroes.html

Duggy

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Apr 23, 2004, 10:07:42 PM4/23/04
to
On Fri, 23 Apr 2004, Brenda W. Clough wrote:
>I haven't been following this thread closely, but someone surely has
>mentioned Zauriel, who was an angel of the Heavenly Host.

Yes, but it was asked he had a faith or a knowledge...

===
= DUG.
===

Mark J. Reed

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Apr 23, 2004, 10:40:29 PM4/23/04
to

MJR = me
PB = Peter Bruells <p...@ecce-terram.de>

MJR> Post-Crisis, Supes has mentioned Rao - royally set Zeus off once
MJR> just by saying the name!

PB> Cool. When did that happen?

It was in _Man_of_Steel_ during Mark Schultz's run. But we never found out
why Zeus hates Rao . . . new creative team, idea dropped, yada yada.

-Mark

arnold kim

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Apr 24, 2004, 12:22:48 AM4/24/04
to

"Peter Bruells" <p...@ecce-terram.de> wrote in message
news:m2wu47i...@rogue.ecce-terram.de...

It came to me right after I've made the post. By then, someone else had
already mentioned it, so my adding it would be redundant.

Arnold Kim


Brent McKee

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Apr 24, 2004, 2:43:12 AM4/24/04
to

"Duggy" <jc12...@jcu.edu.au> wrote in message
news:Pine.OSF.4.21.04042...@marlin.jcu.edu.au...

That's not my interpretation of the Centauri. The Centauri are
polytheistic -- worshiping many gods -- rather than poly-religious --
having multiple religions. In a polytheistic society there may be a
hierarchy of gods, and people may pray to specific gods, but the
belief is in _all_ of the gods. In ancient Rome there weren't battles
between believers in Jupiter and Apollo over which was the "true"
faith. (In fact the Romans were notorious for adopting various gods
as circumstances demanded. The hierarchy of gods that _we_ think of
as the Roman gods were in fact borrowed entirely from the Greeks while
the original Roman religion tended to focus on household deities.)
This is significantly different from the acceptance of diversity
exhibited by the humans which allowed for different interpretations of
divinity, both monotheistic and polytheistic, to co-exist with limited
friction.

--
Brent McKee

To reply by email, please remove the capital letters (S and N) from
the email address

"If we cease to judge this world, we may find ourselves, very quickly,
in one which is infinitely worse."
- Margaret Atwood

"Nothing is more dangerous than a dogmatic worldview - nothing more
constraining, more blinding to innovation, more destructive of
openness to novelty. "
- Stephen Jay Gould (1941-2002)

Michael Wood

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Apr 24, 2004, 3:02:23 AM4/24/04
to
"Dan McEwen" <dannyb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c69uph$9jmds$5...@ID-177615.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Gustav...@yahoo.com (Gustavo Wombat) wrote in
> news:6dc8909e.04042...@posting.google.com:

>
> > I can't think of any major superheroes that strongly believe in any
> > real faith, and that surprises me. Certainly not in the DC Universe.
>
> Obsidian was a veritfied Catholic while Jade was Protestant (but no
> particular denomination named). This information came out of one of the
> earlier issues of Infinity, Inc.
>
> > I think there are more minority superheros than religious ones.
>
> It's hard to say. The major heroes don't get into this because comic
> writers are probably worried about offending people. Minor heroes (or
> those without their own books) don't have the chance to let you know
> about their religious affiliations (or lack of).
>
> > Not that I want to see "The Teen Titans" become "The Christian
> > Crusaders, with their Happy Hindu friend and wacky Orthodox Jew
> > sidekick", but seems unrealistic that there would be none.
>
> Atom-Smasher is Jewish. There was a member of JLE named Maya who was, I
> think, Hindu.
>
> > I'm not religious myself, but I know that for a large chunk of the
> > population, faith is an important part of their lives.
> >
> > Huntress has a Christian Prostitute wardrobe, but that's about as far
> > is it goes. She isn't defined or motivated by her faith.
>
> Do we know that? (I don't, because I haven't read anything with her in
> it outside of the first issue of her series and her appearances in JLA.)
>
> > There would seem to be a lot of untapped ground for storytelling. I
> > wonder why it hasn't happened. So, what do you think: Agnostic/Athiest
> > writers trying to force their worldview on impressionable children, or
> > writers shying away from something that could be handled very badly
> > and offensively?
> >
> > I, for one, would like to see some character get revamped as a Born
> > Again Christian, rather than the usual darker, angrier more violent
> > version. And not a religious zealot either -- tolerent, although
> > perhaps disapproving at times.
>
> I'd rather not have the Born Again Christian, but instead someone who
> has a solid faith and who is willing to show it.
>
> > Plus, it would give writers a chance to answer the question that I
> > know we've all been pondering: "Did Jesus die for Superman's sins?"
>
> We all know he did. He came (again), died, and arose to help us.

But I think the question is "did he die only for the sins of Earth people?"

Given that many people think Jesus is specific to only their particular
faith, including one particular group in the US that actually has a number!

Given that Earth mythology/heaven/afterlife/gods/mystical realm is often
portrayed in DC as specific to the particular planet that you are on. Even
the Hosts of Heaven and God seem to be specific to Earth. Lobo's adventures
being the exception.

In the modern age they have effectively bound all the most powerful
characters to Earth. Superman used to roam the Universe, as did the JLA and
at times the Spectre. Now they are boxed in as effectivle as the GA Superman
in his "better place".


--
"There is right and wrong in the Universe and it is not too hard to tell the
difference"

Michael Wood
Reply to: BLOCKm...@hotmail.com (remove BLOCK to reply)


Ken from Chicago

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Apr 24, 2004, 4:56:33 AM4/24/04
to

"Gustavo Wombat" <Gustav...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6dc8909e.04042...@posting.google.com...
> I can't think of any major superheroes that strongly believe in any
> real faith, and that surprises me. Certainly not in the DC Universe.
>
> I think there are more minority superheros than religious ones.
>
> Not that I want to see "The Teen Titans" become "The Christian
> Crusaders, with their Happy Hindu friend and wacky Orthodox Jew
> sidekick", but seems unrealistic that there would be none.
>
> I'm not religious myself, but I know that for a large chunk of the
> population, faith is an important part of their lives.
>
> Huntress has a Christian Prostitute wardrobe, but that's about as far
> is it goes. She isn't defined or motivated by her faith.
>
> There would seem to be a lot of untapped ground for storytelling. I
> wonder why it hasn't happened. So, what do you think: Agnostic/Athiest
> writers trying to force their worldview on impressionable children, or
> writers shying away from something that could be handled very badly
> and offensively?
>
> I, for one, would like to see some character get revamped as a Born
> Again Christian, rather than the usual darker, angrier more violent
> version. And not a religious zealot either -- tolerent, although
> perhaps disapproving at times.
>
> Plus, it would give writers a chance to answer the question that I
> know we've all been pondering: "Did Jesus die for Superman's sins?"
>
> --Gustavo

The entire JLA went to heaven, purgatory (limbo?) and hell in a story
arc--but natch, there were no lasting impact on them or society.

-- Ken from Chicago


Ken from Chicago

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Apr 24, 2004, 4:58:17 AM4/24/04
to

Also, I think Matt "Daredevil" Murdock is Catholic. He's always hanging
around cathedrals.

-- Ken from Chicago


Brian Doyle

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Apr 24, 2004, 5:49:08 AM4/24/04
to

"CleV" <clJU...@balcab.ch> wrote in message
news:4089c4d0...@news.hispeed.ch...

> >> Shamanism? Is that a word?
>
> >Yes.
>
> But it's more a thing you do, isn't it, not a belief.

Not really, according to my dictionary, it's a belief system from Northern
Asia that accepts that the world is pervaded by good and evil spirits which
can only be controlled or influenced by the shamans, or any similar religion
involving forms of spiritualism.


Brian Doyle

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Apr 24, 2004, 5:52:30 AM4/24/04
to

"Mark J. Reed" <mr...@thereeds.org> wrote in message
news:tDiic.19860$l75....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> wrh...@aol.com (WRH Bill) writes:

> The thread topic plus your B5 quote combine to remind me of the
> "What is Earth's religion?" episode (pre-Sheridan), in which we find out
> that Earth is apparently unique among the galactic civilizations in not
> having a single religion shared by all Terrans.

Though there's also an episode of "Alien Nation" where Sykes assumes that
the Newcomers are all the same religion (Worshippers of Seleen and Endarko
like George and his family), and one of the Newcomers asks "Why should we
be? Humans certainly aren't"


Brian Doyle

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Apr 24, 2004, 5:56:03 AM4/24/04
to

"Duggy" <jc12...@jcu.edu.au> wrote in message
news:Pine.OSF.4.21.04042...@marlin.jcu.edu.au...

Terry Pratchett discusses in "Carpe Jugulum" what sort of true, insightful
religion is it that _can't_ inspire it's members like that, and is it worth
the having if it can't?

As we find out, the world probably isn't ready for a Granny Weatherwax who
has found religion, and Nanny Ogg has, in the words of one god "An approach
to showing respect to her deity which would make an aetheist green with
envy"


Daibhid Ceannaideach

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Apr 24, 2004, 9:21:20 AM4/24/04
to
From: dbda...@hotmail.com (Dreighton)
>Date: 24/04/04 00:01 GMT Daylight Time
Message-id: <d41de28c.04042...@posting.google.com>

>On a related side note: I'm amazed at how few characters/heroes have
>been motivated by their faith especially a Christian faith. One of
>the main tenents of the Christian faith is loving and helping others.
>Since heroes do that (help others) I would think more would have the
>"why do they do what they do" being part their faith. Also,as a
>Christian, one of the things we are taught is we all have "talents" or
>gifts from God, and what we do with those talents is our gift back to
>God. I would think some "heroes" would use their super powered gifts
>as gifts back to God.

The impression I get of Superman (most notably in the Kismet story following
the Blaze/Satanus War) is that he *is* motivated at least partly by religious
faith (at least inasmuch as that's part of being "raised right" in Kansas), he
just doesn't talk about it much.

But yeah, it is odd that out of the three most noticably Christian superheroes
(Nightcrawler, Daredevil and Huntress) one is motivated largely by circumstance
(being a mutant) and the other two began their careers seeking revenge.

--
Dave
The Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
Four-and-twenty Lib Dems came down from Inverness,
And when the vote was counted there were four-and-twenty less.
-Rory Bremner, 7/3/04

Curley

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Apr 24, 2004, 10:54:05 AM4/24/04
to
What happened to The Anal Avenger? His mission was to stamp out
homosexuality. His alter-ego was that he was a Jesuit Priest who worked with
young orphan boys at a School for Wayward Boys. Charlton Comics, mid 1970s.


CleV

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Apr 24, 2004, 1:41:51 PM4/24/04
to

>> >Yes.