Beyonce as Wonder Woman in the new movie?
Aaron *Brother Head* Moss
that on Good Morning America they announced Beyonce is going to be Wonder
Woman in the new movie.
After my little tirade and ranting and raving (which my wife was expecting),
my wife checked online and found several sources saying that Beyonce is in
talks with DC Comics about playing Wonder Woman (so she hasn't been chosen
yet, just in talks).
So what does the rest of the comic loving world think about this?
--
Rev. Aaron *Brother Head* Moss
http://brotherhead.com
"Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if
you win, you're still a retard"
Magnus, Robot Fighter
<thebr...@brotherhead.com> wrote:
>So yesterday, I get home and my wife informs me (according to her mother)
>that on Good Morning America they announced Beyonce is going to be Wonder
>Woman in the new movie.
>
>After my little tirade and ranting and raving (which my wife was expecting),
>my wife checked online and found several sources saying that Beyonce is in
>talks with DC Comics about playing Wonder Woman (so she hasn't been chosen
>yet, just in talks).
>
>So what does the rest of the comic loving world think about this?
(shrug)
Michael
I'm more upset by Deeom Patrol #3.
Michael
Syvyn11
"Aaron *Brother Head* Moss" <thebr...@brotherhead.com> wrote in message
news:c9KdnSxGrLzpo1LX...@pghconnect.com...
> So yesterday, I get home and my wife informs me (according to her mother)
> that on Good Morning America they announced Beyonce is going to be Wonder
> Woman in the new movie.
>
> After my little tirade and ranting and raving (which my wife was
> expecting),
> my wife checked online and found several sources saying that Beyonce is in
> talks with DC Comics about playing Wonder Woman (so she hasn't been chosen
> yet, just in talks).
>
> So what does the rest of the comic loving world think about this?
a few years ago there was a rumor of Beyonce being Lois Lane for the
Superman reboot. That I was behind. I'd think she would have make (or if
they do a proper reboot) a great Lois.
That said, she has no bussiness being Wonder Woman. Unless they are going
with a Cathy Lee Crosby like fuck up.
Michael
>
> "Aaron *Brother Head* Moss" <thebr...@brotherhead.com> wrote in
> message news:c9KdnSxGrLzpo1LX...@pghconnect.com...
>
>> So yesterday, I get home and my wife informs me (according to her mother)
>> that on Good Morning America they announced Beyonce is going to be Wonder
>> Woman in the new movie.
>>
>> After my little tirade and ranting and raving (which my wife was
>> expecting),
>> my wife checked online and found several sources saying that Beyonce
>> is in
>> talks with DC Comics about playing Wonder Woman (so she hasn't been
>> chosen
>> yet, just in talks).
>>
>> So what does the rest of the comic loving world think about this?
>
>
> a few years ago there was a rumor of Beyonce being Lois Lane for the
> Superman reboot. That I was behind. I'd think she would have make
> (or if they do a proper reboot) a great Lois.
>
> That said, she has no bussiness being Wonder Woman. Unless they are
> going with a Cathy Lee Crosby like fuck up.
CLC could play Hyppolyta in a new movie!
Michael
YKW
news:c9KdnSxGrLzpo1LX...@pghconnect.com, "Aaron *Brother
Head* Moss" <thebr...@brotherhead.com> wrote:
> So yesterday, I get home and my wife informs me (according to her
> mother) that on Good Morn
Imma letcha finish, but I just gotta say that...
Nah. All played out.
On-topic, who cares? I doubt that anyone familiar enough with the
character is going to have any interest in any take that has even the
possibility of resonating with the general public. She's only
interesting now in terms of her interactions with other characters'
respective mythos. (John Byrne figured this out long ago, filling his
pages with WONDER WOMAN TEAM-UP, the Donna Troy mess and the new Wonder
Girl; his WW was a reactive agent, not a proactive one. And, aside from
the Donna disaster, was the last truly fun take.)
So, g'wan, bring on your Beyoncee, your Megan Fox, your Lindsay Lohan,
your Sandra Bernhard, your RuPaul. Won't bother me none 'cos, no matter
who you cast, the movie's gonna suck.
Brad Haga
"Aaron *Brother Head* Moss" <thebr...@brotherhead.com> wrote:
> So yesterday, I get home and my wife informs me (according to her mother)
> that on Good Morning America they announced Beyonce is going to be Wonder
> Woman in the new movie.
>
> After my little tirade and ranting and raving (which my wife was expecting),
> my wife checked online and found several sources saying that Beyonce is in
> talks with DC Comics about playing Wonder Woman (so she hasn't been chosen
> yet, just in talks).
>
> So what does the rest of the comic loving world think about this?
I think it is idiotic to cast Beyonce Knowles as Wonder Woman. Her look
is totally wrong and she has no action background that I'm aware of
beyond one Austin Powers movie; she would make a better Phillipus, which
would help her get some more dramatic acting experience.
H. Brad Haga
Brad Haga
Michael <this...@for.rent> wrote:
I still think that role should go to Lynda Carter.
H. Brad Haga
KalElFan
news:c9KdnSxGrLzpo1LX...@pghconnect.com...
> So what does the rest of the comic loving world think about this?
Obviously, the market for the movie is much broader than that, and
there are many factors besides the lead that will determine whether
or to what extent the movie succeeds. But yes this casting would
work very well and it's been rumored for at least a year or so. This
from last November:
http://www.fusedfilm.com/2008/11/beyonce-wants-to-be-wonder-woman/
There are some photoshops there that alone make the sale, including
the one at this direct URL adapted from another photo she'd done:
http://fusedfilm.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/beyonce-as-ww1.jpg
grinningdemon
wrote:
I hear that.
grinningdemon
>Uatu tells me that, on 09 Oct 2009, in
>news:c9KdnSxGrLzpo1LX...@pghconnect.com, "Aaron *Brother
>Head* Moss" <thebr...@brotherhead.com> wrote:
>
>> So yesterday, I get home and my wife informs me (according to her
>> mother) that on Good Morn
>
>Imma letcha finish, but I just gotta say that...
>
>Nah. All played out.
>
>On-topic, who cares? I doubt that anyone familiar enough with the
>character is going to have any interest in any take that has even the
>possibility of resonating with the general public. She's only
>interesting now in terms of her interactions with other characters'
>respective mythos. (John Byrne figured this out long ago, filling his
>pages with WONDER WOMAN TEAM-UP, the Donna Troy mess and the new Wonder
>Girl; his WW was a reactive agent, not a proactive one. And, aside from
>the Donna disaster, was the last truly fun take.)
I wouldn't go that far...while I did enjoy Byrne's run (if only he'd
left Donna alone), his was hardly the last decent take on the
character...Jiminez's WW run was great...and I liked Rucka's run well
enough...it's only since the current series began that the book (and
character) has really gone down hill.
>So, g'wan, bring on your Beyoncee, your Megan Fox, your Lindsay Lohan,
>your Sandra Bernhard, your RuPaul. Won't bother me none 'cos, no matter
>who you cast, the movie's gonna suck.
On that, we pretty much agree...though the animated version wasn't
bad.
Michael
Who's doing the Wonder Woman movie? I hadn't heard anyone new coming on
since Joss Whedon got tossed.
Michael
Michael
Good point!
Michael
Michael
AND Doom Patrol #3.
Deeom Patrol #3 doesn't upset me as much after I told another look at it.
;)
Michael
Michael
> On Fri, 09 Oct 2009 17:38:29 GMT, YKW <no...@all.here> wrote:
>
>
>>Uatu tells me that, on 09 Oct 2009, in
>>news:c9KdnSxGrLzpo1LX...@pghconnect.com, "Aaron *Brother
>>Head* Moss" <thebr...@brotherhead.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>So yesterday, I get home and my wife informs me (according to her
>>>mother) that on Good Morn
>>
>>Imma letcha finish, but I just gotta say that...
>>
>>Nah. All played out.
>>
>>On-topic, who cares? I doubt that anyone familiar enough with the
>>character is going to have any interest in any take that has even the
>>possibility of resonating with the general public. She's only
>>interesting now in terms of her interactions with other characters'
>>respective mythos. (John Byrne figured this out long ago, filling his
>>pages with WONDER WOMAN TEAM-UP, the Donna Troy mess and the new Wonder
>>Girl; his WW was a reactive agent, not a proactive one. And, aside from
>>the Donna disaster, was the last truly fun take.)
>
>
> I wouldn't go that far...while I did enjoy Byrne's run (if only he'd
> left Donna alone), his was hardly the last decent take on the
> character...Jiminez's WW run was great...and I liked Rucka's run well
> enough...it's only since the current series began that the book (and
> character) has really gone down hill.
Isn't Gail Simone doing at least OK on the book? She had a lot of
damage control after The DiDiot brought in Jodi "I don't know a freakin'
thing about the character so lemme just rewrite the prvious
as-yet-unfinished story arc and call it good" Picoult.
Michael
Syvyn11
"Michael" <this...@for.rent> wrote in message
news:u%Izm.42244$bP1....@newsfe24.iad...
I'd give that role to Mariska Hargitay.
>
> Michael
Syvyn11
"Brad Haga" <jad...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:jademan-9F92EF...@unknown.sj.astraweb.com...
Nah, have her play Mindy Mayer (a nod to the GP days).
grinningdemon
wrote:
It's an improvement...but she either got stuck with the crappy status
quo of the previous writers or chose to stick with it...and it
BLOWS...this whole Diana Prince, Secret Agent identity is retarded and
Nemesis as her love interest is just lame...if Simone had dropped all
that crap and started fresh then her run would be MUCH better...then
again, the plotline she is currently doing with the Manazons and Diana
being exiled from Themyscira AGAIN has little to do with any of that
and is still pretty weak...the only thing Simone has done with the
book that I really liked was bringing in the White Ape Hit Squad from
Gorilla City...that was brilliant.
All in all, Simone should have just stayed on Birds of Prey...then
there might be at least one bat-book left that's worth reading.
Not Sure
<thebrot...@brotherhead.com> wrote:
> So yesterday, I get home and my wife informs me (according to her mother)
> that on Good Morning America they announced Beyonce is going to be Wonder
> Woman in the new movie.
My brother's attorney's bottom heard some guy at the mall say that you
and your wife are coke-addled whores who'll blow anyone for five
dollars.
>
> After my little tirade and ranting and raving (which my wife was expecting),
> my wife checked online and found several sources saying that Beyonce is in
> talks with DC Comics about playing Wonder Woman (so she hasn't been chosen
> yet, just in talks).
>
> So what does the rest of the comic loving world think about this?
>
> --
> Rev. Aaron *Brother Head* Mosshttp://brotherhead.com
YKW
@newsfe07.iad, Michael <this...@for.rent> wrote:
> Isn't Gail Simone doing at least OK on the book? She had a lot of
> damage control after The DiDiot brought in Jodi "I don't know a
> freakin' thing about the character so lemme just rewrite the prvious
> as-yet-unfinished story arc and call it good" Picoult.
Gail's take has less to do with Diana as a person than it does with how
she interacts with gods, with the Amazons, with human men and with human
women as a group (and, to be fair, with gorillas). I don't think anyone
has taken her seriously as a character in her own right on an extended
basis since... geez, Gerry Conway?
Michael
Now stop that.
Michael
Michael
I wouldn't think she would be allowed to hit the reset button again so
soon after having had it hit already.
> ...then
> again, the plotline she is currently doing with the Manazons and Diana
> being exiled from Themyscira AGAIN has little to do with any of that
> and is still pretty weak...the only thing Simone has done with the
> book that I really liked was bringing in the White Ape Hit Squad from
> Gorilla City...that was brilliant.
>
> All in all, Simone should have just stayed on Birds of Prey...then
> there might be at least one bat-book left that's worth reading.
That might've also been descisions from above her pay grade. In this
case I think the batbooks are meant to be under tighter control (like
how none of the Bats are in the Titans books anymore).
At least that's how I'm assuming things lay at DC. I could be
completely wrong. She could've made an argument that she could save the
Wonder Woman book (didn't she also have to contend with the horrid
"Amazons Attack" thing?) and she could've just been tired of BoP or
something.
BTW, isn't Nemesis going through some stuff in one of the Final Crisis
mini serieses currently going on (Escape I think)?
Michael
Syvyn11
"Michael" <this...@for.rent> wrote in message
Far as I'm concerned, she's a goddess.
grinningdemon
I thought Rucka did some decent exploration of the character
herself...exploring the warrior/hero dual aspect and her willingness
to kill...along with her role in the DCU and all the things that set
her apart from the other heroes...and he even gave her her own Lex
Luthor (an ongoing human foil) in the form of Veronica Cale...it just
didn't stick, unfortunately...and I think it's fair to say that Perez
took her seriously during his run since he was basically
re-established the character from scratch...and did it a hell of a lot
better than the original...where all she really did was chase after
her man and get tied up frequently.
grinningdemon
wrote:
As poorly received as that reset had been, I'd say it should have been
on the table...moreover, she could have just used her first couple of
story arcs to wrap all that up before moving on...it's all been so
forced that it would be easy to remove.
>> ...then
>> again, the plotline she is currently doing with the Manazons and Diana
>> being exiled from Themyscira AGAIN has little to do with any of that
>> and is still pretty weak...the only thing Simone has done with the
>> book that I really liked was bringing in the White Ape Hit Squad from
>> Gorilla City...that was brilliant.
>>
>> All in all, Simone should have just stayed on Birds of Prey...then
>> there might be at least one bat-book left that's worth reading.
>
>That might've also been descisions from above her pay grade. In this
>case I think the batbooks are meant to be under tighter control (like
>how none of the Bats are in the Titans books anymore).
But BoP was more of a fringe title...and none of costume-swapping
bat-characters were involved in it...the impression I got was that she
got the opportunity to do WW and something had to give...so she gave
up BoP...and the book went straight to hell as soon as she did.
Also, that restriction is the bat-characters is apparently about to
change since Batwing is going to be in the Justice Titans.
>At least that's how I'm assuming things lay at DC. I could be
>completely wrong. She could've made an argument that she could save the
>Wonder Woman book (didn't she also have to contend with the horrid
>"Amazons Attack" thing?) and she could've just been tired of BoP or
>something.
I doubt she was tired of BoP or she wouldn't have just revisited Black
Canary in WW (and, unfortunately, even that story wasn't very
good)...when they announced Simone was taking over WW, I thought it
would be great...but it just doesn't seem to be a good fit to me...I
loved BoP and Secret Six but there is something lacking here.
She did deal with Amazons Attack but a lot of it was just ignored or
else handwaved away...Hyppolyta was alone on the island but she was no
longer psycho and there was never any explanation given for
that...and, as it turns out, there were still a few other Amazons left
on the island even though they all should have been magically removed
with the others...and all the Amazons were basically brought back with
a handwave from Zeus with little explanation given for where they were
and what had happened to them...except for Artemis' bunch who were
apparently never removed at all but had been the prisoners of the US
government this whole time...it really doesn't make sense...Amazons
Attack wasn't good but, if Simone was going to deal with the fallout,
it could definitely have been handled better.
>BTW, isn't Nemesis going through some stuff in one of the Final Crisis
>mini serieses currently going on (Escape I think)?
I think so...I haven't bothered with any of those FC Aftermath books
(I didn't even like FC itself)...either way, Nemesis has also been
appearing semi-regularly in WW since the beginning of the current
series...personally, I think he would have been a good fit in the
Checkmate book if it hadn't died as soon as Rucka left.
Billy Bissette
69.16.185.250:
> So, g'wan, bring on your Beyoncee, your Megan Fox, your Lindsay Lohan,
> your Sandra Bernhard, your RuPaul. Won't bother me none 'cos, no matter
> who you cast, the movie's gonna suck.
That's what I've figured ever since a Wonder Woman movie was
announced. It's going to be bad whoever is cast. The only question
is how bad.
Billy Bissette
news:3b40d5heeak96covp...@4ax.com:
> wrote:
>>At least that's how I'm assuming things lay at DC. I could be
>>completely wrong. She could've made an argument that she could save
>>the Wonder Woman book (didn't she also have to contend with the horrid
>>"Amazons Attack" thing?) and she could've just been tired of BoP or
>>something.
>
> I doubt she was tired of BoP or she wouldn't have just revisited Black
> Canary in WW (and, unfortunately, even that story wasn't very
> good)...when they announced Simone was taking over WW, I thought it
> would be great...but it just doesn't seem to be a good fit to me...I
> loved BoP and Secret Six but there is something lacking here.
The mere presence of Wonder Woman storyline in recent issues of
Secret Six has I think brought down the latter title. Grendel is
just a pathetic creation. Worst enemy I've seen in a comic in
years. All the "Who killed Artemis?" hoopla was just stupid with
no one even bothering to see if she was alive until after the
fighting over her death started. The whole holding a whole group
of Amazons prisoners was pretty stupid as well in several ways.
Edward McArdle
<bai...@coastalnet.com> wrote:
One of the problems with a WW film is that if she really gets involved in
any physical action, her costume will fall off. While I enjoyed the Linda
Carter series, all she ever did was run about a bit, and throw her lassoo.
(I do realise that they can reshoot those scenes. They will just be in the
extras on the DVD.)
One of the things about WW is that she has a definite ethnic background,
unlike nearly everyone else. Perhaps Paris Hilton?
--
Edward McArdle
grinningdemon
Agreed...on all counts...I'll be glad to see this storyline wrapped
up...but my fear is that, if Artemis does join the team (as many of us
suspect will happen), it will create a permanent link to WW for as
long as she stays...and, at the moment, that would be very bad.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
The *Amazons*, yes. WW, no. Remember she is not human, but animated
clay brought to life, so who's to say she can't look like whatever..
Ted
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
grinningdemon
<tednolan>) wrote:
Perhaps...but it would seem more than a little out of place if the
Amazons are cast according to the culture they traditionally represent
and WW appears completely different...after all, why would the Greek
gods create someone of a different ethnicity?
PugMan
"Magnus, Robot Fighter" <M...@Key.com> wrote in message
news:k3luc5djtg1r31pbp...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 06:45:14 -0700, "Aaron *Brother Head* Moss"
> <thebr...@brotherhead.com> wrote:
>
>>So yesterday, I get home and my wife informs me (according to her mother)
>>Woman in the new movie.
>>
>>After my little tirade and ranting and raving (which my wife was
>>expecting),
>>my wife checked online and found several sources saying that Beyonce is in
>>talks with DC Comics about playing Wonder Woman (so she hasn't been chosen
>>yet, just in talks).
>>
>>So what does the rest of the comic loving world think about this?
>
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
Scott Eiler
> On 10 Oct 2009 07:48:32 GMT, t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
> <tednolan>) wrote:
> >Edward McArdle <mcar...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
> >>One of the things about WW is that she has a definite ethnic background,
>
> >The *Amazons*, yes. WW, no. Remember she is not human, but animated
> >clay brought to life, so who's to say she can't look like whatever..
>
> Perhaps...but it would seem more than a little out of place if the
> Amazons are cast according to the culture they traditionally represent
> and WW appears completely different...after all, why would the Greek
> gods create someone of a different ethnicity?
1. Why not? The gods themselves were meant to represent the whole
world.
2. Ancient ethnic Greeks no longer exist anyway; most Greeks today
look a lot like Turks. So this is a silly discussion to have in the
first place.
Syvyn11
"Aaron *Brother Head* Moss" <thebr...@brotherhead.com> wrote in message
news:c9KdnSxGrLzpo1LX...@pghconnect.com...
> So yesterday, I get home and my wife informs me (according to her mother)
> that on Good Morning America they announced Beyonce is going to be Wonder
> Woman in the new movie.
>
> After my little tirade and ranting and raving (which my wife was
> expecting),
> my wife checked online and found several sources saying that Beyonce is in
> talks with DC Comics about playing Wonder Woman (so she hasn't been chosen
> yet, just in talks).
>
> So what does the rest of the comic loving world think about this?
How about Nina Dobrev as Wonder Woman?
grinningdemon
<sei...@eilertech.com> wrote:
>On Oct 10, 3:00 am, grinningdemon <grinningde...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>> On 10 Oct 2009 07:48:32 GMT, t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
>> <tednolan>) wrote:
>> >In article <mcardle-1010091651230...@192.168.1.4>,
>> >Edward McArdle <mcar...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> >>One of the things about WW is that she has a definite ethnic background,
>>
>> >The *Amazons*, yes. WW, no. Remember she is not human, but animated
>> >clay brought to life, so who's to say she can't look like whatever..
>>
>> Perhaps...but it would seem more than a little out of place if the
>> Amazons are cast according to the culture they traditionally represent
>> and WW appears completely different...after all, why would the Greek
>> gods create someone of a different ethnicity?
>
>1. Why not? The gods themselves were meant to represent the whole
>world.
No they weren't...they were meant to represent Greek culture...just as
the Norse gods were meant to represent that culture...they may have
been credited with the whole world but they really never gave a crap
about anyone beyond their own little corner of it.
>2. Ancient ethnic Greeks no longer exist anyway; most Greeks today
>look a lot like Turks. So this is a silly discussion to have in the
>first place.
Most people wouldn't make a distinction between modern and ancient
Greeks...most people would probably just assume that Greeks look more
or less like other Europeans...and it's a safe bet that the Ancient
ethnic Greeks didn't look like they were from Africa...it's all about
believablity...and, as hot as Beyonce is, no one is going to mistake
her for Greek...THAT would be silly.
M.O.R
> In article <Xns9CA0E7EDB621whatcholooki...@216.168.3.70>, Billy Bissette
>
> <bai...@coastalnet.com> wrote:
> >YKW <n...@all.here> wrote in news:Xns9C9F6C46BA4A51a9y8a0b1r9i6a9n@
> >69.16.185.250:
>
> >> So, g'wan, bring on your Beyoncee, your Megan Fox, your Lindsay Lohan,
> >> your Sandra Bernhard, your RuPaul. Won't bother me none 'cos, no matter
> >> who you cast, the movie's gonna suck.
>
> > That's what I've figured ever since a Wonder Woman movie was
> >announced. It's going to be bad whoever is cast. The only question
> >is how bad.
>
> One of the problems with a WW film is that if she really gets involved in
> any physical action, her costume will fall off. While I enjoyed the Linda
> Carter series, all she ever did was run about a bit, and throw her lassoo.
>
> (I do realise that they can reshoot those scenes. They will just be in the
> extras on the DVD.)
>
> One of the things about WW is that she has a definite ethnic background,
> unlike nearly everyone else. Perhaps Paris Hilton?
>
> --
> Edward McArdle
Then WW would come with a new super power. Sluttiness and a
contagious, super powered form of herpes.
Scott Eiler
> On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 06:52:55 -0700 (PDT), Scott Eiler
>
> >1. Why not? The gods themselves were meant to represent the whole
> >world.
>
> No they weren't...they were meant to represent Greek culture, just as
> the Norse gods were meant to represent that culture...
But the gods represented thunderbolts and all sorts of unknown things
too.
> they may have
> been credited with the whole world but they really never gave a crap
> about anyone beyond their own little corner of it.
All right, I don't feel all that strongly about the ethnic makeup of
the Gods, so I'll concede that point.
But the *Amazons* come from everywhere, right? That plus their
liberal politics probably got them in trouble, and it's probably part
of why ancient Greeks chased them out of Lesbos or Old Themiscyra or
wherever.
So I still think having a Nubian as the god-breathed Crown Princess of
the Amazons is not that big a stretch. Less of a stretch than having
a modern-day Greek is, anyway.
grinningdemon
<sei...@eilertech.com> wrote:
>On Oct 10, 3:09 pm, grinningdemon <grinningde...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 06:52:55 -0700 (PDT), Scott Eiler
>>
>
>> >1. Why not? The gods themselves were meant to represent the whole
>> >world.
>>
>> No they weren't...they were meant to represent Greek culture, just as
>> the Norse gods were meant to represent that culture...
>
>But the gods represented thunderbolts and all sorts of unknown things
>too.
That they did...but their appearances reflected Greek culture...and
the Greeks wouldn't have invented gods that looked Egyptian, for
instance.
>> they may have
>> been credited with the whole world but they really never gave a crap
>> about anyone beyond their own little corner of it.
>
>All right, I don't feel all that strongly about the ethnic makeup of
>the Gods, so I'll concede that point.
>
>But the *Amazons* come from everywhere, right? That plus their
>liberal politics probably got them in trouble, and it's probably part
>of why ancient Greeks chased them out of Lesbos or Old Themiscyra or
>wherever.
That may be true...but the Amazons (particularly WW's version) are
closely identified with Greek culture...it's a fundamental aspect of
the Wonder Woman and to change that would just seem false...and
guarantee a shitty movie.
>So I still think having a Nubian as the god-breathed Crown Princess of
>the Amazons is not that big a stretch. Less of a stretch than having
>a modern-day Greek is, anyway.
And I disagree.
At any rate, WW is an icon and her traditional appearance should be
respected, in my opinion...there is certainly some room for variance
but, if you cast someone who doesn't fit that traditional appearance
at all, you pretty much guarantee that the audience will never accept
that person as Wonder Woman.
Patrick
"Brad Haga" <jad...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:jademan-490785...@unknown.sj.astraweb.com...
> In article <c9KdnSxGrLzpo1LX...@pghconnect.com>,
> "Aaron *Brother Head* Moss" <thebr...@brotherhead.com> wrote:
>
>> So yesterday, I get home and my wife informs me (according to her mother)
>> that on Good Morning America they announced Beyonce is going to be Wonder
>> Woman in the new movie.
>>
>> After my little tirade and ranting and raving (which my wife was
>> expecting),
>> my wife checked online and found several sources saying that Beyonce is
>> in
>> talks with DC Comics about playing Wonder Woman (so she hasn't been
>> chosen
>> yet, just in talks).
>>
>> So what does the rest of the comic loving world think about this?
>
> I think it is idiotic to cast Beyonce Knowles as Wonder Woman. Her look
> is totally wrong and she has no action background that I'm aware of
> beyond one Austin Powers movie; she would make a better Phillipus, which
> would help her get some more dramatic acting experience.
>
> H. Brad Haga
You know, if there is talk about Beyonce and Wonder Woman, then it might
just be about being in the movie, not actually being the Wonder Woman
character. Beyonce would make a great Phillipus. Check out the Pepsi
commercial she did with Pink and Britney Spears to see how she would look in
'Amazonish' wear.
Patrick
Michael
>>I wouldn't think she would be allowed to hit the reset button again so
>>soon after having had it hit already.
>
>
> As poorly received as that reset had been, I'd say it should have been
> on the table...moreover, she could have just used her first couple of
> story arcs to wrap all that up before moving on...it's all been so
> forced that it would be easy to remove.
Those two stories were pretty much kept to the confines of the Wonder
Woman book with little or nothing to do with events outside that,
weren't they?
>>That might've also been descisions from above her pay grade. In this
>>case I think the batbooks are meant to be under tighter control (like
>>how none of the Bats are in the Titans books anymore).
>
>
> But BoP was more of a fringe title...and none of costume-swapping
> bat-characters were involved in it...the impression I got was that she
> got the opportunity to do WW and something had to give...so she gave
> up BoP...and the book went straight to hell as soon as she did.
Very likely. How much to do with the new Batgirl does Barb have and how
much does the new Batgirl have to do with the other Batbooks?
> Also, that restriction is the bat-characters is apparently about to
> change since Batwing is going to be in the Justice Titans.
Except that it goes with Donna Troy and Mon-El two replace the JL's Big
Three motiff. And who knows how long it'll last?
>>At least that's how I'm assuming things lay at DC. I could be
>>completely wrong. She could've made an argument that she could save the
>>Wonder Woman book (didn't she also have to contend with the horrid
>>"Amazons Attack" thing?) and she could've just been tired of BoP or
>>something.
>
>
> I doubt she was tired of BoP or she wouldn't have just revisited Black
> Canary in WW (and, unfortunately, even that story wasn't very
> good)...when they announced Simone was taking over WW, I thought it
> would be great...but it just doesn't seem to be a good fit to me...I
> loved BoP and Secret Six but there is something lacking here.
>
> She did deal with Amazons Attack but a lot of it was just ignored or
> else handwaved away...Hyppolyta was alone on the island but she was no
> longer psycho and there was never any explanation given for
> that...and, as it turns out, there were still a few other Amazons left
> on the island even though they all should have been magically removed
> with the others...and all the Amazons were basically brought back with
> a handwave from Zeus with little explanation given for where they were
> and what had happened to them...except for Artemis' bunch who were
> apparently never removed at all but had been the prisoners of the US
> government this whole time...it really doesn't make sense...Amazons
> Attack wasn't good but, if Simone was going to deal with the fallout,
> it could definitely have been handled better.
I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that WW (the character and the
book) is a mess and that, for whatever reason, it's not being fixed.
>>BTW, isn't Nemesis going through some stuff in one of the Final Crisis
>>mini serieses currently going on (Escape I think)?
>
>
> I think so...I haven't bothered with any of those FC Aftermath books
> (I didn't even like FC itself)...either way, Nemesis has also been
> appearing semi-regularly in WW since the beginning of the current
> series...personally, I think he would have been a good fit in the
> Checkmate book if it hadn't died as soon as Rucka left.
I thought Rogues' Revenge and Legion Of Three Worlds were both good,
though I'm not sure what, if anything, they had to do with Final Crisis
beyond the title.
Michael
grinningdemon
wrote:
>grinningdemon wrote:
>
>>>I wouldn't think she would be allowed to hit the reset button again so
>>>soon after having had it hit already.
>>
>>
>> As poorly received as that reset had been, I'd say it should have been
>> on the table...moreover, she could have just used her first couple of
>> story arcs to wrap all that up before moving on...it's all been so
>> forced that it would be easy to remove.
>
>Those two stories were pretty much kept to the confines of the Wonder
>Woman book with little or nothing to do with events outside that,
>weren't they?
Which stories? Amazons Attack impacted at least a few other DC
books...I know there was a Catwoman tie-in...and it was surprisingly
pretty good...other than that, pretty much nothing from the current WW
series has impacted any other DC title...except maybe Trinity.
>
>>>That might've also been descisions from above her pay grade. In this
>>>case I think the batbooks are meant to be under tighter control (like
>>>how none of the Bats are in the Titans books anymore).
>>
>>
>> But BoP was more of a fringe title...and none of costume-swapping
>> bat-characters were involved in it...the impression I got was that she
>> got the opportunity to do WW and something had to give...so she gave
>> up BoP...and the book went straight to hell as soon as she did.
>
>Very likely. How much to do with the new Batgirl does Barb have and how
>much does the new Batgirl have to do with the other Batbooks?
So far, they seem to be setting Barb up for the same mentor role she
had in the last Batgirl book (which ran concurrently with BoP)...and,
so far, Spoiler/Batgirl hasn't appeared in any of the other
bat-book...and I doubt she will anytime soon either...unless they have
her show up in Red Robin.
>> Also, that restriction is the bat-characters is apparently about to
>> change since Batwing is going to be in the Justice Titans.
>
>Except that it goes with Donna Troy and Mon-El two replace the JL's Big
>Three motiff. And who knows how long it'll last?
But Starfire, Cyborg, and Roy don't fit with that...and I don't really
care how long it lasts...it's not the Justice League...if Robinson
wants to write the Titans, he should just drop the pretense and do it.
>>>At least that's how I'm assuming things lay at DC. I could be
>>>completely wrong. She could've made an argument that she could save the
>>>Wonder Woman book (didn't she also have to contend with the horrid
>>>"Amazons Attack" thing?) and she could've just been tired of BoP or
>>>something.
>>
>>
>> I doubt she was tired of BoP or she wouldn't have just revisited Black
>> Canary in WW (and, unfortunately, even that story wasn't very
>> good)...when they announced Simone was taking over WW, I thought it
>> would be great...but it just doesn't seem to be a good fit to me...I
>> loved BoP and Secret Six but there is something lacking here.
>>
>> She did deal with Amazons Attack but a lot of it was just ignored or
>> else handwaved away...Hyppolyta was alone on the island but she was no
>> longer psycho and there was never any explanation given for
>> that...and, as it turns out, there were still a few other Amazons left
>> on the island even though they all should have been magically removed
>> with the others...and all the Amazons were basically brought back with
>> a handwave from Zeus with little explanation given for where they were
>> and what had happened to them...except for Artemis' bunch who were
>> apparently never removed at all but had been the prisoners of the US
>> government this whole time...it really doesn't make sense...Amazons
>> Attack wasn't good but, if Simone was going to deal with the fallout,
>> it could definitely have been handled better.
>
>I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that WW (the character and the
>book) is a mess and that, for whatever reason, it's not being fixed.
Exactly...they seem to like it that way...but I'm getting the same
impression with most of DCU these days...fucking up all the characters
seems to be Didio's main stategy.
>>>BTW, isn't Nemesis going through some stuff in one of the Final Crisis
>>>mini serieses currently going on (Escape I think)?
>>
>>
>> I think so...I haven't bothered with any of those FC Aftermath books
>> (I didn't even like FC itself)...either way, Nemesis has also been
>> appearing semi-regularly in WW since the beginning of the current
>> series...personally, I think he would have been a good fit in the
>> Checkmate book if it hadn't died as soon as Rucka left.
>
>I thought Rogues' Revenge and Legion Of Three Worlds were both good,
>though I'm not sure what, if anything, they had to do with Final Crisis
>beyond the title.
I actually liked those two as well...Rogue's Revenge had a minor FC
connection in that Libra was the one who sent the rest of the villains
after the Rogues...but, as far as I know, Lo3W had absolutely nothing
to do with FC...it was a much better story though.
John Duncan Yoyo
I don't think Beyonce works as WW but in one retelling of the Origin
from the seventies Hippolyta mad two clay children one white and one
black. The sister Nubia was raised separately and I don't remember
much else. <http://www.comics.org/issue/26299/>
Aaron *Brother Head* Moss
"Not Sure" <fred1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:26893c0e-628b-4a0c...@l13g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 9, 6:45 am, "Aaron *Brother Head* Moss"
<thebrot...@brotherhead.com> wrote:
> So yesterday, I get home and my wife informs me (according to her mother)
> that on Good Morning America they announced Beyonce is going to be Wonder
> Woman in the new movie.
My brother's attorney's bottom heard some guy at the mall say that you
and your wife are coke-addled whores who'll blow anyone for five
dollars.
---
He's wrong.
It takes 10 dollars.
Thanks for playing our game.
--
Rev. Aaron *Brother Head* Moss
http://brotherhead.com
Merry Christmas to all!
Aaron *Brother Head* Moss
"Syvyn11" <robhor...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5c2dnWaQIKPTSU3X...@earthlink.com...
:
: "Aaron *Brother Head* Moss" <thebr...@brotherhead.com> wrote in message
: news:c9KdnSxGrLzpo1LX...@pghconnect.com...
: > So yesterday, I get home and my wife informs me (according to her
mother)
: > that on Good Morning America they announced Beyonce is going to be
Wonder
: > Woman in the new movie.
: >
: > After my little tirade and ranting and raving (which my wife was
: > expecting),
: > my wife checked online and found several sources saying that Beyonce is
in
: > talks with DC Comics about playing Wonder Woman (so she hasn't been
chosen
: > yet, just in talks).
: >
: > So what does the rest of the comic loving world think about this?
:
: How about Nina Dobrev as Wonder Woman?
Maybe a young Diana... Not famaliar with her, so I couldn't say for sure.
How tall she is, would be another important factor. Pictures I found
online, googling her, she "looks" short (as best as I can tell from pictures
of her).
--
Rev. Aaron *Brother Head* Moss
http://brotherhead.com
In a perfect world... spammers would get caught, go to jail, and share a
cell with many men who have enlarged their penises, taken Viagra and are
looking for a new relationship.
Mike Hall
Forget about the original origin, which would turn off 90% of the
movie audience. There is absolutely no need for anything Greek
either.
Mike Hall
grinningdemon
wrote:
Sure, let's just have Hollywood come up with a new explanation for the
magic bracelets, magic rope, and invisible plane...because their ideas
are always AWESOME.
While we're at it, let's a do a Superman movie and leave out the bit
about his being the last son of Krypton...he can be a drug addict from
Chicago who only THINKS he can fly and Lois can be his favorite crack
whore...and how about a Batman movie where his parents never died at
all and the guy just has a debilitating bat-fetish and wears the mask
to cover his acne.
If that's all you think of WW, I don't know why you would even want
them to make a film at all.
Mike Hall
> On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 17:57:25 -0700 (PDT), Mike Hall <tar...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Wonder Woman is magic bracelets, magic rope and invisible aeroplane.
> >Forget about the original origin, which would turn off 90% of the
> >movie audience. There is absolutely no need for anything Greek
> >either.
>
> Sure, let's just have Hollywood come up with a new explanation for the
> magic bracelets, magic rope, and invisible plane...because their ideas
> are always AWESOME.
See Spider-Man. Hollywood got rid of the radioactive spider/whatever
cosmic origin is in force this week for Spidey, kept the essentials
and got probably the best-ever produced comic-book hero franchise out
of it.
What is wrong with getting rid of all the bad baggage introduced over
the decades by writers of varying calibre, possibly aimed at readers
who are now in nursing homes for the elderly, to produce an essential
Wonder Woman for movie-goers to enjoy in 1 hour and 59 minutes?
I know we can all come up with bad ways of doing this*, but with
respect to the original post, so long as they keep the essentials in
place there is no reason why Beyoncé could not be Wonder Woman.
Mike Hall
*Bad way no. 1 - Godzilla breathed radioactive breath on Amelia
Earhart's plane, turning the plane invisible and giving her superpowers
Daibhid Ceanaideach
> On Oct 13, 4:44�am, grinningdemon <grinningde...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 17:57:25 -0700 (PDT), Mike Hall
>> <tar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Wonder Woman is magic bracelets, magic rope and invisible aeroplane.
>> >Forget about the original origin, which would turn off 90% of the
>> >movie audience. �There is absolutely no need for anything Greek
>> >either.
>>
>> Sure, let's just have Hollywood come up with a new explanation for
>> the magic bracelets, magic rope, and invisible plane...because their
>> ideas are always AWESOME.
>
> See Spider-Man. Hollywood got rid of the radioactive spider/whatever
> cosmic origin is in force this week for Spidey, kept the essentials
> and got probably the best-ever produced comic-book hero franchise out
> of it.
But they did keep "being bitten by a <rubber science du jour>-affected
spider".
And some heroes have more significant origins than others; Anyone
interested in a Superman movie where he doesn't come from Krypton? (An
X-Men movie where they aren't mutants would literally have the entire
point removed.) I'd put Wondy's mythical origin in that category,
personally; your mileage may vary.
--
Dave
"All those with psychokinesis, raise my hand."
The Room With No Doors, Kate Orman
grinningdemon
wrote:
>On Oct 13, 4:44�am, grinningdemon <grinningde...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 17:57:25 -0700 (PDT), Mike Hall <tar...@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Wonder Woman is magic bracelets, magic rope and invisible aeroplane.
>> >Forget about the original origin, which would turn off 90% of the
>> >movie audience. �There is absolutely no need for anything Greek
>> >either.
>>
>> Sure, let's just have Hollywood come up with a new explanation for the
>> magic bracelets, magic rope, and invisible plane...because their ideas
>> are always AWESOME.
>
>See Spider-Man. Hollywood got rid of the radioactive spider/whatever
>cosmic origin is in force this week for Spidey, kept the essentials
>and got probably the best-ever produced comic-book hero franchise out
>of it.
They still kept his traditional origin though...the "cosmic origin"
that had been introduced in the comics never even changed that...only
added to it...and I think that actually came after the first movie
anyway.
>What is wrong with getting rid of all the bad baggage introduced over
>the decades by writers of varying calibre, possibly aimed at readers
>who are now in nursing homes for the elderly, to produce an essential
>Wonder Woman for movie-goers to enjoy in 1 hour and 59 minutes?
You aren't talking about dropping the baggage or updating the
character/origin...you are talking about throwing out the character's
entire origin...a part I consider essential the character as it is
what makes her unique and interesting when superheroes are a dime a
dozen...if it's not a true adaptation, then there's no point in
calling it Wonder Woman.
>
>I know we can all come up with bad ways of doing this*, but with
>respect to the original post, so long as they keep the essentials in
>place there is no reason why Beyonc� could not be Wonder Woman.
The difference is, I can't think of a single GOOD way of making
Beyonce WW.
>Mike Hall
>
>*Bad way no. 1 - Godzilla breathed radioactive breath on Amelia
>Earhart's plane, turning the plane invisible and giving her superpowers
Seriously though, just what origin would you have them give her if you
drop everything from the comic? This I have to hear.
Mike Hall
> On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 10:28:57 -0700 (PDT), Mike Hall <tar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Oct 13, 4:44 am, grinningdemon <grinningde...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> >> Sure, let's just have Hollywood come up with a new explanation for the
> >> magic bracelets, magic rope, and invisible plane...because their ideas
> >> are always AWESOME.
Oh, I missed the Lynda Carter spin. That along with David Banner's
eyes, Thor's "ODIN!!!" and Superman's phone boxes are the classic
methods of changing costume.
> >See Spider-Man. Hollywood got rid of the radioactive spider/whatever
> >cosmic origin is in force this week for Spidey, kept the essentials
> >and got probably the best-ever produced comic-book hero franchise out
> >of it.
> They still kept his traditional origin though...the "cosmic origin"
> that had been introduced in the comics never even changed that...only
> added to it...and I think that actually came after the first movie
> anyway.
They kept the good bits and trashed the bad. Spider-man has a very
strong mission statement that everyone can respect, which is why it
looked so similar even though it wasn't. Wonder Woman has a wishy-
washy mission statement, powers which change every author, and has
never been popular as a non-fetish character.
> >What is wrong with getting rid of all the bad baggage introduced over
> >the decades by writers of varying calibre, possibly aimed at readers
> >who are now in nursing homes for the elderly, to produce an essential
> >Wonder Woman for movie-goers to enjoy in 1 hour and 59 minutes?
> You aren't talking about dropping the baggage or updating the
> character/origin...you are talking about throwing out the character's
> entire origin...a part I consider essential the character as it is
> what makes her unique and interesting when superheroes are a dime a
> dozen...if it's not a true adaptation, then there's no point in
> calling it Wonder Woman.
Here's where we disagree totally and may well have to agree to
disagree. No one save the most super-devoted of the comics books fans
think that the Greek Gods stuff is important, since it is just an
excuse to have an island full of hot women.
You personally may well have to accept that your Wonder Woman has
never been a viable character when not played as a soft-porn character
and hope that Beyoncé (or whoever) picks up the good bits and makes a
decent character out her and not does it in another bad way*.
Mike Hall
*Bad way no. 2:
A cavewoman is murdered by an angry man. Greek Gods create an island
filled up with hot chicks filled by the immortal souls of women killed
by men. The queen of these women is given a pretty daughter made of
clay. Pretty clay girl is told to be an ambassador to the world of
men by running around in her underwear - she even gets to be the
secretary of the Men's Hero Club! Just so that anyone does not get
what the origin means, the Greek Gods let the super-women get enslaved
every so often.**
**Bad Way no. 3
See Bad Way no. 2 but change Clay Girl from a bondage freak, to a
naïve young woman, to a feminazi, to a glamour model, to an ugly
bodybuilder, and finally to a cold-blooded killer, and finally claim
that she is the most respected female character of the company!
plausible prose man
> On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 14:08:55 -0700 (PDT), Scott Eiler
>
> <sei...@eilertech.com> wrote:
> >On Oct 10, 3:09 pm, grinningdemon <grinningde...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> >> On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 06:52:55 -0700 (PDT), Scott Eiler
>
> >> >1. Why not? The gods themselves were meant to represent the whole
> >> >world.
>
> >> No they weren't...they were meant to represent Greek culture, just as
> >> the Norse gods were meant to represent that culture...
>
> >But the gods represented thunderbolts and all sorts of unknown things
> >too.
>
> That they did...but their appearances reflected Greek culture...and
> the Greeks wouldn't have invented gods that looked Egyptian, for
> instance.
I'm not totally sure how much the greeks "invented" their gods, so
much as borrowed them from other cultures, like Egypt. Also, I seem to
recall some story where Greek gods had to hide out for some reason and
took on some egyptian aspect by way of disguise, and after a certain
point the ancients combined Hermes and Thoth.
>
> >> they may have
> >> been credited with the whole world but they really never gave a crap
> >> about anyone beyond their own little corner of it.
>
> >All right, I don't feel all that strongly about the ethnic makeup of
> >the Gods, so I'll concede that point.
>
> >But the *Amazons* come from everywhere, right? That plus their
> >liberal politics probably got them in trouble, and it's probably part
> >of why ancient Greeks chased them out of Lesbos or Old Themiscyra or
> >wherever.
The Amazons of mythology are not exactly the same as the Amazons of
myth, nor will either group likely precisely resemble the Amazons of a
Wonder Woman movie, assuming one ever gets made.
> That may be true...but the Amazons (particularly WW's version) are
> closely identified with Greek culture
Sure.
>...it's a fundamental aspect of
> the Wonder Woman and to change that would just seem false...and
> guarantee a shitty movie.
I'm definitely hearing a chorus of voices here on the group to the
effect there's only so interesting even the very best imaginable
Wonder Woman movie could possibly be.
> >So I still think having a Nubian as the god-breathed Crown Princess of
> >the Amazons is not that big a stretch.
You know, especially since...well, Beyonce is far from the blackest
black woman out there. I think she looks a lot more like:
http://helleniccashflowclub.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/3.jpg
than either of them look like:
http://i.cnn.net/si/pr/subs/swimsuit/images/05_vwilliams_03.jpg
> > Less of a stretch than having
> >a modern-day Greek is, anyway.
>
> And I disagree.
My main complaint would be, if you have someone famous like that play
a certain type of character, you're going to mainly experience that as
"It's Beyonce dressed up in a Wonder Woman costume!" and not "It's
Wonder Woman!"
> At any rate, WW is an icon and her traditional appearance should be
> respected, in my opinion...there is certainly some room for variance
> but, if you cast someone who doesn't fit that traditional appearance
> at all, you pretty much guarantee that the audience will never accept
> that person as Wonder Woman.
Audiences seemed pretty happy with Michael Keaton in a rubber version
of the Batman costume there for awhile, so....
plausible prose man
> On Oct 13, 4:44 am, grinningdemon <grinningde...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 17:57:25 -0700 (PDT), Mike Hall <tar...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > >Wonder Woman is magic bracelets, magic rope and invisible aeroplane.
> > >Forget about the original origin, which would turn off 90% of the
> > >movie audience. There is absolutely no need for anything Greek
> > >either.
>
> > Sure, let's just have Hollywood come up with a new explanation for the
> > magic bracelets, magic rope, and invisible plane...because their ideas
> > are always AWESOME.
>
> See Spider-Man. Hollywood got rid of the radioactive spider/whatever
> cosmic origin is in force this week for Spidey,
Right, they changed radioactive to genetically engineered, or
something. Not that big a change. You know, it's not like he has a
magic ring that gives him spider-powers, or drinks some sort of spider
serum, or wears some sort of spider power battle suit.
> kept the essentials
And really, just about everything from the comics, apart from
simplifying the web-shooters thing.
> and got probably the best-ever produced comic-book hero franchise out
> of it.
I'm really digging those Nolan Batman movies.
> What is wrong with getting rid of all the bad baggage introduced over
> the decades by writers of varying calibre, possibly aimed at readers
> who are now in nursing homes for the elderly,
and were, you know, six years old at the time
> to produce an essential
> Wonder Woman for movie-goers to enjoy in 1 hour and 59 minutes?
Well, nothing, but...
> I know we can all come up with bad ways of doing this*, but with
> respect to the original post, so long as they keep the essentials in
> place there is no reason why Beyoncé could not be Wonder Woman.
Huh. Um...it seems you're sort of tossing out the essentials right
away and going for "comic book dumb" when you cast Beyonce.
>> *Bad way no. 1 - Godzilla breathed radioactive breath on Amelia
> Earhart's plane, turning the plane invisible and giving her superpowers
That would be pretty awesome.
Mike Hall
> Seriously though, just what origin would you have them give her if you
> drop everything from the comic? This I have to hear.
Hmm... I'm going to do this quickly, as I know that fan-fiction is
generally painful to read:
Diana Prince is passed down the ancient artifacts (rope and bracelets
via spinning change) from her mother, who used them to fight the
Nazis.
She becomes a historian and discovers an ancient Egyptian (or Greek if
you want) method of making stuff invisible.
She is quite rich in her own right but lacks direction to her life.
Her sister is an engineer and creates the invisible aircraft. Her
mother is a singer:)
She reads about women being treated badly and sees some patronizing
men commiserating with their plight, claiming there is no money to
help them, and bailing out rich male bankers.
She creates some sort of pro-woman organization, using the Wonder
Woman as some sort of undercover operative to root out anti-female
conspiracies. Her sister gets killed being Wonder Woman.
Wonder Woman wears an American-flag themed costume because she wants
to show that women are part of American too.
Like the best bits of Iron Man and Spider-Man 1, the film must be
mostly about Diana Prince's motivations. DC's Wonder Woman has one of
the worst rogues' galleries of any long-lasting character! Byrne used
Superman and Green Lantern villains in his run, nothing that no one
would care if she beat on Cheetah again. The Big Bad choice is where
this movie will succeed or fail. Buffy became a huge success when
Spike and Drusilla appeared. A couple of misogynist gay men (who are
obviously the front for Wondy's self-loathing mother) could do this
duty.
Mike Hall
Billy Bissette
news:Xns9CA5C85995D34da...@130.133.1.4:
As far as the general audience is concerned, Wonder Woman is a
woman with super powers. That's about it. I doubt most would even
know (or remember) the Amazon part, much less any of the details.
On the other hand, most people that know Superman will probably recall
that he is an alien.
Outside of her own comic (and at times not even there), it isn't
even particularly relevant to her stories. Superman has Kryptonite
constantly showing up, even when enemies from Krypton aren't. Wonder
Woman has... Uhm... Occassions where Amazon-related enemies show up?
Not much, really.
Even in her heyday with her TV show, she came off more as a US
government employee that happened to be able to spin herself into
a American-themed bikini. When NOW was trumpeting Wondy's greatness,
they did so seemingly oblivious to the bondage themes from which she
was created and which was quite clearly present for many years in
her book, so how much did they really know about the character
besides her being a strong woman?
And is the invisible plane baggage or essential? It is pretty
silly, and the butt of multiple jokes. And Wondy hasn't used it for
years, not since she randomly gained the generic ability to fly.
grinningdemon
wrote:
>On Oct 15, 9:05�ｿｽpm, grinningdemon <grinningde...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 10:28:57 -0700 (PDT), Mike Hall <tar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >On Oct 13, 4:44�ｿｽam, grinningdemon <grinningde...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> >> Sure, let's just have Hollywood come up with a new explanation for the
>> >> magic bracelets, magic rope, and invisible plane...because their ideas
>> >> are always AWESOME.
>
>Oh, I missed the Lynda Carter spin. That along with David Banner's
>eyes, Thor's "ODIN!!!" and Superman's phone boxes are the classic
>methods of changing costume.
>
>> >See Spider-Man. �ｿｽHollywood got rid of the radioactive spider/whatever
>> >cosmic origin is in force this week for Spidey, kept the essentials
>> >and got probably the best-ever produced comic-book hero franchise out
>> >of it.
>
>> They still kept his traditional origin though...the "cosmic origin"
>> that had been introduced in the comics never even changed that...only
>> added to it...and I think that actually came after the first movie
>> anyway.
>
>They kept the good bits and trashed the bad. Spider-man has a very
>strong mission statement that everyone can respect, which is why it
>looked so similar even though it wasn't. Wonder Woman has a wishy-
>washy mission statement, powers which change every author, and has
>never been popular as a non-fetish character.
Her powers have changed somewhat over time...but not dramatically and
they typically revert to form...just as Spiderman's powers have
changed from time to time and eventually bounce back.
And, given that WW is one of only three superheroes that have been
published more or less continuously since the creation of the genre,
and that the character once had a hit TV show, I'd argue she has a
certain level of popularity.
>> >What is wrong with getting rid of all the bad baggage introduced over
>> >the decades by writers of varying calibre, possibly aimed at readers
>> >who are now in nursing homes for the elderly, to produce an essential
>> >Wonder Woman for movie-goers to enjoy in 1 hour and 59 minutes?
>
>> You aren't talking about dropping the baggage or updating the
>> character/origin...you are talking about throwing out the character's
>> entire origin...a part I consider essential the character as it is
>> what makes her unique and interesting when superheroes are a dime a
>> dozen...if it's not a true adaptation, then there's no point in
>> calling it Wonder Woman.
>
>Here's where we disagree totally and may well have to agree to
>disagree. No one save the most super-devoted of the comics books fans
>think that the Greek Gods stuff is important, since it is just an
>excuse to have an island full of hot women.
Actually, I'd say the only ones who don't think the "Greek Gods stuff"
is important are those who don't know anything about the character
(and people like yourself who clearly don't like the character
anyway)...and the general public has a greater knowledge of this
character than you might think...if you have a WW movie with an origin
that totally ignores everything that has come before, people will take
notice...and not just "the most super-devoted of the comic book fans."
>You personally may well have to accept that your Wonder Woman has
>never been a viable character when not played as a soft-porn character
>and hope that Beyonc�ｿｽ (or whoever) picks up the good bits and makes a
>decent character out her and not does it in another bad way*.
If people agreed with you that the character is not viable, there
would never have even been discussion of any movie...and the animated
one that came out recently and featured quite a bit of the "Greek Gods
stuff" was actually pretty good...with a little tweaking, it would
have made a pretty good live action version.
To hear you talk, there are no good bits to take...you want to drop
her entire back story (although, for some odd reason, you find a
connection to Egyptian myth more palatable than Greek) even change her
iconic appearance dramatically...exactly what is it that you want to
keep? Because I have a feeling you are going to say you want to
change her costume too...seriously dude, why don't you just go pitch
an original character and leave WW alone?
>*Bad way no. 2:
>A cavewoman is murdered by an angry man. Greek Gods create an island
>filled up with hot chicks filled by the immortal souls of women killed
>by men. The queen of these women is given a pretty daughter made of
>clay. Pretty clay girl is told to be an ambassador to the world of
>men by running around in her underwear - she even gets to be the
>secretary of the Men's Hero Club! Just so that anyone does not get
>what the origin means, the Greek Gods let the super-women get enslaved
>every so often.**
>**Bad Way no. 3
>See Bad Way no. 2 but change Clay Girl from a bondage freak, to a
>na�ｿｽve young woman, to a feminazi, to a glamour model, to an ugly
>bodybuilder, and finally to a cold-blooded killer, and finally claim
>that she is the most respected female character of the company!
You are over-simplifying things...and you are also combining elements
from different versions of her origin to make it seem worse than it
is.
grinningdemon
<George...@aol.com> wrote:
>On Oct 10, 5:40�pm, grinningdemon <grinningde...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 14:08:55 -0700 (PDT), Scott Eiler
>>
>> <sei...@eilertech.com> wrote:
>> >On Oct 10, 3:09 pm, grinningdemon <grinningde...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 06:52:55 -0700 (PDT), Scott Eiler
>>
>> >> >1. �Why not? �The gods themselves were meant to represent the whole
>> >> >world.
>>
>> >> No they weren't...they were meant to represent Greek culture, just as
>> >> the Norse gods were meant to represent that culture...
>>
>> >But the gods represented thunderbolts and all sorts of unknown things
>> >too.
>>
>> That they did...but their appearances reflected Greek culture...and
>> the Greeks wouldn't have invented gods that looked Egyptian, for
>> instance.
>
> I'm not totally sure how much the greeks "invented" their gods, so
>much as borrowed them from other cultures, like Egypt. Also, I seem to
>recall some story where Greek gods had to hide out for some reason and
>took on some egyptian aspect by way of disguise, and after a certain
>point the ancients combined Hermes and Thoth.
Borrowed or invented, they molded their gods to fit their culture...as
with any culture that didn't rise in a vacum, there are elements
incorporated from others...but they always put their own spin on
things.
>> >> they may have
>> >> been credited with the whole world but they really never gave a crap
>> >> about anyone beyond their own little corner of it.
>>
>> >All right, I don't feel all that strongly about the ethnic makeup of
>> >the Gods, so I'll concede that point.
>>
>> >But the *Amazons* come from everywhere, right? �That plus their
>> >liberal politics probably got them in trouble, and it's probably part
>> >of why ancient Greeks chased them out of Lesbos or Old Themiscyra or
>> >wherever.
>
> The Amazons of mythology are not exactly the same as the Amazons of
>myth, nor will either group likely precisely resemble the Amazons of a
>Wonder Woman movie, assuming one ever gets made.
Fair enough.
>> That may be true...but the Amazons (particularly WW's version) are
>> closely identified with Greek culture
>
> Sure.
>
>>...it's a fundamental aspect of
>> the Wonder Woman and to change that would just seem false...and
>> guarantee a shitty movie.
>
> I'm definitely hearing a chorus of voices here on the group to the
>effect there's only so interesting even the very best imaginable
>Wonder Woman movie could possibly be.
I'm of the opinion that certain characters, even characters I love,
just don't translate well to live action...the best we can hope for
here is to mitigate the disaster.
>> >So I still think having a Nubian as the god-breathed Crown Princess of
>> >the Amazons is not that big a stretch.
>
> You know, especially since...well, Beyonce is far from the blackest
>black woman out there. I think she looks a lot more like:
>
>http://helleniccashflowclub.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/3.jpg
>
> than either of them look like:
>
>http://i.cnn.net/si/pr/subs/swimsuit/images/05_vwilliams_03.jpg
>
>
>> >�Less of a stretch than having
>> >a modern-day Greek is, anyway.
>>
>> And I disagree.
>
> My main complaint would be, if you have someone famous like that play
>a certain type of character, you're going to mainly experience that as
>"It's Beyonce dressed up in a Wonder Woman costume!" and not "It's
>Wonder Woman!"
Agreed...it should be a relatively unknown actress.
>> At any rate, WW is an icon and her traditional appearance should be
>> respected, in my opinion...there is certainly some room for variance
>> but, if you cast someone who doesn't fit that traditional appearance
>> at all, you pretty much guarantee that the audience will never accept
>> that person as Wonder Woman.
>
> Audiences seemed pretty happy with Michael Keaton in a rubber version
>of the Batman costume there for awhile, so....
There are still a lot of complaints about Michael Keaton as
Batman...that said, he won many people over with the strength of his
performance...but do you honestly think Beyonce could do that?
grinningdemon
wrote:
>On Oct 15, 9:05�pm, grinningdemon <grinningde...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> Seriously though, just what origin would you have them give her if you
>> drop everything from the comic? �This I have to hear.
>
>Hmm... I'm going to do this quickly, as I know that fan-fiction is
>generally painful to read:
>
>Diana Prince is passed down the ancient artifacts (rope and bracelets
>via spinning change) from her mother, who used them to fight the
>Nazis.
>She becomes a historian and discovers an ancient Egyptian (or Greek if
>you want) method of making stuff invisible.
>She is quite rich in her own right but lacks direction to her life.
>Her sister is an engineer and creates the invisible aircraft. Her
>mother is a singer:)
>She reads about women being treated badly and sees some patronizing
>men commiserating with their plight, claiming there is no money to
>help them, and bailing out rich male bankers.
>She creates some sort of pro-woman organization, using the Wonder
>Woman as some sort of undercover operative to root out anti-female
>conspiracies. Her sister gets killed being Wonder Woman.
>Wonder Woman wears an American-flag themed costume because she wants
>to show that women are part of American too.
Wow...you really don't think much of the character at all, do you?
You've dumped everything unique and interesting about the character in
favor of an entirely new backstory you just pulled out of your ass.
I'm suddenly reminded of Kevin Smith's story about all the retarded
changes Hollywood people wanted to make when he was writing a Superman
script. And why exactly is a connection to Ancient Egypt acceptable
when you are so eager to dump the Ancient Greek connection?
>
>Like the best bits of Iron Man and Spider-Man 1, the film must be
>mostly about Diana Prince's motivations.
It's funny that you keep talking about previous films that you liked
so much but seem to fail to understand that part of what made those
films good was that they actually stayed relatively true to the source
material.
DC's Wonder Woman has one of
>the worst rogues' galleries of any long-lasting character! Byrne used
>Superman and Green Lantern villains in his run, nothing that no one
>would care if she beat on Cheetah again. The Big Bad choice is where
>this movie will succeed or fail. Buffy became a huge success when
>Spike and Drusilla appeared. A couple of misogynist gay men (who are
>obviously the front for Wondy's self-loathing mother) could do this
>duty.
I agree that WW's rogues gallery is pretty weak...the best options are
Circe or Ares...but, since you are dead set against the mythological
connection, I guess your version is SOL...but I'm sure you can come up
with something else that has absolutely no basis in the comics...since
that seems to be what you're all about.
Billy Bissette
news:iagfd5dkdal4ae3ji...@4ax.com:
It didn't hurt that when it came to screen/film, he was competing
with the campy Adam West version.
grinningdemon
I think the character is a little better known to the general public
than you give her credit for...most non-comics fans wouldn't know the
details of her origin but I bet most would at least know something
about the Amazons and the connection to the Greek gods.
Mike Hall
> grinningdemon <grinningde...@austin.rr.com> wrote innews:iagfd5dkdal4ae3ji...@4ax.com:
It did hurt when it became the Adam West version in Batman and Robin,
which killed the franchise stone-dead. Anyway like I mentioned
earlier, it was the strength of the villains which counted. The hero
(ine) just has to stand there and look pretty, like Christopher Reeve
did in Superman (1). Beyoncé is pretty and does know how to stand
up. Jack Nicholson, Michelle Pfieffer and Danny DeVito made that
Batman series more than rubber-suit man did. The dancing Poison Ivy
and Mr Freeze would have killed the Godfather!
With a good script, a good strong director and a solid consistent
production direction, Wonder Woman could work. If they could get a
few leading stars as the villains, they could even have a hit here!
Wondy may have been consistently released for decades, but this
situation did not have much to do with the strength of the
characterization.
Mike Hall
grinningdemon
True...and Beyonce would be up against Lynda Carter (thought by many
to be the perfect choice) so she's already starting at a disadvantage.
Billy Bissette
news:tsjfd593maej5agrd...@4ax.com:
That is a legitimate issue. And it has been long enough that
Carter's show is shaded by nostalgia, and people don't really
remember how bad it was.
A new Wonder Woman really needs someone who can do more to make
the part her own than stand around looking pretty. Beyonce hasn't
shown that ability. To be honest, I can't see myself taking
Beyonce seriously in a fight either.
grinningdemon
<bai...@coastalnet.com> wrote:
>grinningdemon <grinni...@austin.rr.com> wrote in
>news:tsjfd593maej5agrd...@4ax.com:
>
>> On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 20:03:09 -0500, Billy Bissette
>> <bai...@coastalnet.com> wrote:
>>
>>>grinningdemon <grinni...@austin.rr.com> wrote in
>>>news:iagfd5dkdal4ae3ji...@4ax.com:
>>>> On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 16:47:53 -0700 (PDT), plausible prose man
>>>> <George...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Audiences seemed pretty happy with Michael Keaton in a rubber
>>>>>version of the Batman costume there for awhile, so....
>>>>
>>>> There are still a lot of complaints about Michael Keaton as
>>>> Batman...that said, he won many people over with the strength of his
>>>> performance...but do you honestly think Beyonce could do that?
>>>
>>> It didn't hurt that when it came to screen/film, he was competing
>>>with the campy Adam West version.
>>
>> True...and Beyonce would be up against Lynda Carter (thought by many
>> to be the perfect choice) so she's already starting at a disadvantage.
>
> That is a legitimate issue. And it has been long enough that
>Carter's show is shaded by nostalgia, and people don't really
>remember how bad it was.
Right...the show was bad...but very few people ever had a problem with
the casting.
> A new Wonder Woman really needs someone who can do more to make
>the part her own than stand around looking pretty. Beyonce hasn't
>shown that ability. To be honest, I can't see myself taking
>Beyonce seriously in a fight either.
Agreed...but, APPARENTLY, all we need are some big name stars to make
a hit.
Mike Hall
Billy Bissette wrote:
> To be honest, I can't see myself taking
> Beyonce seriously in a fight either.
Could you take any variant of Wondy, short of Byrne's ugly body-
builder, seriously in a fight? Could you take Sarah M Gellar (Buffy)
seriously in a fight? I think the funniest and best example was
Alyssa Milano in Charmed.
Beyoncé has done good work in successful films. Looking pretty and
then handing over to the stunt crew should not be beyond her.
Mike Hall
Mike Hall
> On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 17:06:45 -0700 (PDT), Mike Hall <tar...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >On Oct 15, 9:05�pm, grinningdemon <grinningde...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> >> Seriously though, just what origin would you have them give her if you
> >> drop everything from the comic? �This I have to hear.
> >Hmm... I'm going to do this quickly, as I know that fan-fiction is
> >generally painful to read:
> Wow...you really don't think much of the character at all, do you?
> You've dumped everything unique and interesting about the character in
> favor of an entirely new backstory you just pulled out of your ass.
Um, you just asked me to pull a backstory out! I thought it was
pretty good for a 5 minute effort anyway. Anyway, the current Wondy
is a stupid character with no interesting enemies. Xena already beat
the crap out of Ares and Circe too, I suspect :). Now Xena is a good
character!
Anyway, I agree that I want to flush 60-odd years of crap down the
toilet, keeping the Wonder Woman name and the few bits most people
like. The essential Wonder Woman bits if you will.
I'm guessing Gail Simone will throw away most of the accumulated crap
on her run too, or run away screaming (with torn hair in her paws).
Mike Hall
plausible prose man
> On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 20:03:09 -0500, Billy Bissette
>
> <bai...@coastalnet.com> wrote:
> >news:iagfd5dkdal4ae3ji...@4ax.com:
> >> On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 16:47:53 -0700 (PDT), plausible prose man
> >> <Georgefha...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >>> Audiences seemed pretty happy with Michael Keaton in a rubber version
> >>>of the Batman costume there for awhile, so....
>
> >> There are still a lot of complaints about Michael Keaton as
> >> Batman...that said, he won many people over with the strength of his
> >> performance...but do you honestly think Beyonce could do that?
>
> > It didn't hurt that when it came to screen/film, he was competing
> >with the campy Adam West version.
>
> True...and Beyonce would be up against Lynda Carter (thought by many
> to be the perfect choice) so she's already starting at a disadvantage.
Linda Carter had skinny arms, a bit of a tummy such that she might've
benefited from a pair of spanx, and ran like a girl.
plausible prose man
I think they publish her to keep the trademarks active, not so much
because anyone really enjoys her comic.
> You've dumped everything unique and interesting about the character in
> favor of an entirely new backstory you just pulled out of your ass.
> I'm suddenly reminded of Kevin Smith's story about all the retarded
> changes Hollywood people wanted to make when he was writing a Superman
> script. And why exactly is a connection to Ancient Egypt acceptable
> when you are so eager to dump the Ancient Greek connection?
>
>
>
> >Like the best bits of Iron Man and Spider-Man 1, the film must be
> >mostly about Diana Prince's motivations.
>
> It's funny that you keep talking about previous films that you liked
> so much but seem to fail to understand that part of what made those
> films good was that they actually stayed relatively true to the source
> material.
>
> DC's Wonder Woman has one of
>
> >the worst rogues' galleries of any long-lasting character! Byrne used
> >Superman and Green Lantern villains in his run, nothing that no one
> >would care if she beat on Cheetah again. The Big Bad choice is where
> >this movie will succeed or fail. Buffy became a huge success when
> >Spike and Drusilla appeared. A couple of misogynist gay men (who are
> >obviously the front for Wondy's self-loathing mother) could do this
> >duty.
>
> I agree that WW's rogues gallery is pretty weak...the best options are
> Circe or Ares
Clash of the Titans is actually going to be in theaters, probably
before any serious work starts on Wonder Woman. If it's a huge flop,
well...that likely means they tone down the Greek mythology, if it
doesn't mean the end of the Wonder Woman project for five or six
years,
>...but, since you are dead set against the mythological
> connection, I guess your version is SOL...but I'm sure you can come up
> with something else that has absolutely no basis in the comics...since
> that seems to be what you're all about.
Cheetah's probably the best choice, since she'd have, you
know...she'd fight wonder woman, and they can wrestle, and there could
be blood, and one of them ties the other one up, and...
Maybe they could kiss, too, if we can get Ohio guy to vote that way
at the next shareholder's meeting.
grinningdemon
wrote:
>
>Billy Bissette wrote:
>
>> To be honest, I can't see myself taking
>> Beyonce seriously in a fight either.
>
>Could you take any variant of Wondy, short of Byrne's ugly body-
>builder, seriously in a fight? Could you take Sarah M Gellar (Buffy)
>seriously in a fight? I think the funniest and best example was
>Alyssa Milano in Charmed.
>
>Beyonc� has done good work in successful films. Looking pretty and
>then handing over to the stunt crew should not be beyond her.
It's nice that you aren't particularly concerned a little thing like
acting ability.
plausible prose man
> On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 16:47:53 -0700 (PDT), plausible prose man
> >> At any rate, WW is an icon and her traditional appearance should be
> >> respected, in my opinion...there is certainly some room for variance
> >> but, if you cast someone who doesn't fit that traditional appearance
> >> at all, you pretty much guarantee that the audience will never accept
> >> that person as Wonder Woman.
>
> > Audiences seemed pretty happy with Michael Keaton in a rubber version
> >of the Batman costume there for awhile, so....
>
> There are still a lot of complaints about Michael Keaton as
> Batman.
Still, audiences seemed to embrace him, such that Batman made a huge
pile of money.
>..that said, he won many people over with the strength of his
> performance.
That, and once you're in the rubber bat-suit, you know, you're
Batman, at least when its you in the first place and not a stunt
man...
>but do you honestly think Beyonce could do that?-
Do I think Beyonce could put on a Wonder Woman costume and pose with
her hands on her hips and say things like "Hera help me!" and
"Sisters!" Sure.
grinningdemon
wrote:
>Grinningdemon wrote:
>> On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 17:06:45 -0700 (PDT), Mike Hall <tar...@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>
>> >On Oct 15, 9:05?pm, grinningdemon <grinningde...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> >> Seriously though, just what origin would you have them give her if you
>> >> drop everything from the comic? ?This I have to hear.
>
>> >Hmm... I'm going to do this quickly, as I know that fan-fiction is
>> >generally painful to read:
>
>> Wow...you really don't think much of the character at all, do you?
>> You've dumped everything unique and interesting about the character in
>> favor of an entirely new backstory you just pulled out of your ass.
>
>Um, you just asked me to pull a backstory out!
I just wanted to see what you'd come up with...I assumed that you
would hang on to at least something of the actual character.
I thought it was
>pretty good for a 5 minute effort anyway. Anyway, the current Wondy
>is a stupid character with no interesting enemies. Xena already beat
>the crap out of Ares and Circe too, I suspect :). Now Xena is a good
>character!
And, a few years back, Lucy Lawless would have made a good Wonder
Woman (I think she's even voicing her in the next JLA animated
movie)....I agree with you that the current version of Wonder Woman is
weak, but that doesn't mean the character always has been.
>Anyway, I agree that I want to flush 60-odd years of crap down the
>toilet, keeping the Wonder Woman name and the few bits most people
>like. The essential Wonder Woman bits if you will.
You and I have a very different view on what the "essential Wonder
Woman bits" are...I think that if a character or story is worth
adapting to film, it's worth doing right...if you want to do something
wildiy different with little or no connection to the source, that's
fine...but there is no reason to pretend it's Wonder Woman...just come
up with a new name and be done with it...I really don't want to see WW
go the way of Catwoman...which is more or less what you are
suggesting.
>I'm guessing Gail Simone will throw away most of the accumulated crap
>on her run too, or run away screaming (with torn hair in her paws).
Are you even reading her run? She is actually reveling in the history
and mythological aspect of the character...and, even though I don't
really think much of her run (mostly because of the awful status quo
she has been saddled with by the last writer), that approach is what
has always worked best with the character.
grinningdemon
You realize that description more or less fits Beyonce too (although
I've never seen her run).
grinningdemon
I've enjoyed her comic very much in the past...just not the current
series...I loved much of the last series...Perez, Byrne (except his
treatment of Donna), Jiminez, and Rucka all did good work on the book
and character...I also loved the character during much of the last JLA
series...but again, not the current one.
I never really thought much of Cheetah on her own...she just never
seemed like a real threat to WW...maybe teamed with Dr. Psycho?
I actually kind of liked the character Decay that Perez came up with
early in his run (and no one ever really used again) and I liked the
way Rucka set up Veronica Cale as WW's Lex Luthor.
> Maybe they could kiss, too, if we can get Ohio guy to vote that way
>at the next shareholder's meeting.
I just assumed that was a given at this point.
grinningdemon
See, I think, as soon as she opens her mouth, all anyone will hear is
Foxy Cleopatra.
Mike Hall
> It's nice that you aren't particularly concerned a little thing like
> acting ability.
Is anyone that interested in the acting ability of leading ladies?
Beyonce has a star aura streaming from her, and is proven to be not a
bad actress. Lynda Carter was inferior in both ways and did not look
particularly Greek or clay-like!
Oh, and read the theme music for the '70s Wonder Woman show, just to
remind yourself how bad your memory may be letting you down.
Btw, Wondy is such a bad character that even a rare talented top
actress like Lucy Lawless would have to reinvent her, so that the
audience could connect.
In the '90s the highly-underrated Dan Jurgens was clearly trying to
push Maxima away from the Superman stalker role to the No. 1 JLA
female. I think we will see another attempt at something like this
soon.
Finally, look how well the painfully-accurate Watchmen did: the really
good parts were mainly where it was rewritten!
Mike Hall
Billy Bissette
c704e1...@j19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com:
> grinningdemon wrote:
>
>> It's nice that you aren't particularly concerned a little thing like
>> acting ability.
>
> Is anyone that interested in the acting ability of leading ladies?
Hollywood isn't. That's why we got Elektra. And Halle Berry's
career.
On the other hand, Elektra wasn't exactly a blockbuster and Catwoman
became a laughing stock.
> Beyonce has a star aura streaming from her, and is proven to be not a
> bad actress.
Where?
> Btw, Wondy is such a bad character that even a rare talented top
> actress like Lucy Lawless would have to reinvent her, so that the
> audience could connect.
Lawless is overrated. Not as overrated as Garner (who was abysmal
in Elektra), but still managed to ride high off of looking
moderately attractive (and potentially bi-sexual with her blond
sidekick) while moderately looking like she was beating people up
in leather.
Billy Bissette
news:67da58e6-5867-4bb2...@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com:
I think they publish her because they are afraid of the backlash
that might happen from all the non-readers if they cancelled the
book. Since Wonder Woman has become such a women's power icon,
they risk bad press if they dropped her.
But she is a classic character who once was really popular and
who achieved a position outside of comics that she hasn't had in
them in decades, so DC keeps her in print as well as keeps
pushing stories that try to claim her as being as important
in-universe as she was outside of it. (The latter being all the
attempts to claim her in-universe being as important as Superman
and Batman.)
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Billy Bissette <bai...@coastalnet.com> wrote:
>
> Lawless is overrated. Not as overrated as Garner (who was abysmal
>in Elektra), but still managed to ride high off of looking
>moderately attractive (and potentially bi-sexual with her blond
>sidekick) while moderately looking like she was beating people up
>in leather.
Not true. In seasons 3 & 4 especially she got to do high drama as well
as action, and she excelled at it.
Ted
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
grinningdemon
wrote:
>grinningdemon wrote:
>
>> It's nice that you aren't particularly concerned a little thing like
>> acting ability.
>
>Is anyone that interested in the acting ability of leading ladies?
Well, I think that the examples you have cited of good super hero
movies (Spiderman and Iron Man) have two major things in
common...first, they cast people who actually know how to act in the
roles...second, they stayed relatively true to the subject matter.
>Beyonce has a star aura streaming from her, and is proven to be not a
>bad actress. Lynda Carter was inferior in both ways and did not look
>particularly Greek or clay-like!
I agree that she didn't look Greek...but who exactly DOES look
clay-like?
>
>Oh, and read the theme music for the '70s Wonder Woman show, just to
>remind yourself how bad your memory may be letting you down.
I already admitted the show was bad...I never said otherwise...I said
that Lynda Carter was well received as WW and she was...and still
is...she definitely looked the part.
>Btw, Wondy is such a bad character that even a rare talented top
>actress like Lucy Lawless would have to reinvent her, so that the
>audience could connect.
Seriously, man...if you hate WW so much then why the hell would you
even want them to make a movie at all? And, believe it or not, there
are actually some people who do like the character and think there is
more to her than the outfit...which seems to be the only part you are
remotely interested in.
>In the '90s the highly-underrated Dan Jurgens was clearly trying to
>push Maxima away from the Superman stalker role to the No. 1 JLA
>female. I think we will see another attempt at something like this
>soon.
Being No. 1 in that line-up wasn't particularly difficult, as I
recall...you might as well just accept that WW is always going to be
#1 female hero at DC...just as Superman and Batman are always going to
top the list of male heroes.
>Finally, look how well the painfully-accurate Watchmen did: the really
>good parts were mainly where it was rewritten!
I never said it should be taken straight out of the comics...Iron Man
and Dark Knight are the two best comic movies I can think of and
neither of followed any comic story word for word...but they both
captured the essence of the characters and told stories that made
sense for those characters...just how great do you think Watchmen
would have been if it had nothing in common with the comic at all?
Never mind...you probably think that sounds like a great idea...you
must have really loved Catwoman and Elektra.
Mike Hall
> >Beyonce has a star aura streaming from her, and is proven to be not a
> >bad actress. Lynda Carter was inferior in both ways and did not look
> >particularly Greek or clay-like!
Beyonce's imdb page for anyone who does not know how many films she is
in:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0461498/
> I agree that she didn't look Greek...but who exactly DOES look
> clay-like?
Chelsea Clinton.
Mike Hall
plausible prose man
wrote:
Yeah, you're right about that. Well, you know, I'm not excited about
casting Beyonce, and I see that it's mostly not true (and even if it
were true, the vast majority of announced superhero movies either
never come out, or go through several stages of turnaround and
redevelopment before they're released to a theater near you.)
I just can't think of anyone else who can play Wonder Woman, and
mostly have no strong feelings about Wonder Woman.
grinningdemon
For it to possibly work out, it needs to be an unknown.
plausible prose man
I think there's some perception it makes their other properties more
appealing to girls if Wonder Woman is in them, you know, and if you
have a son who likes to play superhero and dress up as Superman or
Batman your daughter can...uh, participate or something. Or she might
want to have a Wonder Woman notebook, maybe. Huh, I don't know.
Here's an article about a partnership with a big deal design firm
collaborating with Warner to produce a line of Wonder Woman shoes and
I guess handbags or whatever "small leather goods" are, and there's
some further tie in to some international girl power! NGO.
> Since Wonder Woman has become such a women's power icon,
> they risk bad press if they dropped her.
Yeah, and um...It is my understanding that the trademarks in the
ancillary merchandising become somewhat weaker if the character
doesn't appear in its original context.
> But she is a classic character who once was really popular and
> who achieved a position outside of comics that she hasn't had in
> them in decades, so DC keeps her in print as well as keeps
> pushing stories that try to claim her as being as important
> in-universe as she was outside of it. (The latter being all the
> attempts to claim her in-universe being as important as Superman
> and Batman.)-
I guess I don't really see any way they could exactly be lying about
that, since the DC universe has the properties DC Comics says it does.
Her powerset is pretty impressive, I guess. I suppose I wouldn't,
then, have written the recent Secret Six story line quite the way Gail
did, where she becomes so helpless so relatively easily, but,
eh...sometimes they do that with Batman, too.
plausible prose man
> > Yeah, you're right about that. Well, you know, I'm not excited about
> >casting Beyonce, and I see that it's mostly not true (and even if it
> >were true, the vast majority of announced superhero movies either
> >never come out, or go through several stages of turnaround and
> >redevelopment before they're released to a theater near you.)
>
> > I just can't think of anyone else who can play Wonder Woman, and
> >mostly have no strong feelings about Wonder Woman.
>
> For it to possibly work out, it needs to be an unknown.- Hide quoted text -
I suppose Jessica Biel's not a bad choice. She's beautiful and
athletic. Here's an R&B artist, Goapele...http://media.photobucket.com/
image/goapele/Soulbrotha2/goapele-1.jpg
If you could find that face, only maybe about 15% less African, I
think that's Wonder Woman. You know, feed the picture through those
"what would you look like if you were black or chinese" programs they
have?
This is Maria Volonaki
http://www.facebook.com/profile/pic.php?uid=AAAAAQAQmQQuFzVpnYeWm4PP8ByaIwAAAApOshBrtkK7yycB_leHKu3Y
Although I have no idea how tall she is, or if she can act, and she's
done nude photos, which might be scandalous for a character who many
will see as primarily appealing to children.
Still, she has a Wonder Woman face, in that Shannon Farnon sort of
way, who I always thought looked mean and angry.
Scott Eiler
> I think the character is a little better known to the general public
> than you give her credit for...most non-comics fans wouldn't know the
> details of her origin but I bet most would at least know something
> about the Amazons and the connection to the Greek gods.
I bet more of the general public would first try to connect Wonder
Woman's Amazons to the Amazon River - but most would have trouble even
doing that.
Billy Bissette
>> � But she is a classic character who once was really popular and
>> who achieved a position outside of comics that she hasn't had in
>> them in decades, so DC keeps her in print as well as keeps
>> pushing stories that try to claim her as being as important
>> in-universe as she was outside of it. �(The latter being all the
>> attempts to claim her in-universe being as important as Superman
>> and Batman.)-
>
> I guess I don't really see any way they could exactly be lying about
> that, since the DC universe has the properties DC Comics says it does.
> Her powerset is pretty impressive, I guess. I suppose I wouldn't,
> then, have written the recent Secret Six story line quite the way Gail
> did, where she becomes so helpless so relatively easily, but,
> eh...sometimes they do that with Batman, too.
Superman is seen as the ideal and the most powerful hero.
Admittedly, his power levels have varied wildly over the years,
but he is still perceived that way, and it isn't a stretch to
see the people inside the DC universe thinking the same way.
(And besides, it wasn't anyone else that stopped Doomsday.)
Batman is a somewhat mythical figure that has shaped an entire
city. He's spawned multiple off-shoot and copycat heroes. He's
the practical and intelligent hero. While Superman is an alien,
Batman shows what a regular human can do (though admittedly the
regular people in the DC universe have no reason to assume that
Batman is a normal human.) For all the silliness surrounding it,
the idea of a "Battle for the Cowl" isn't unbelievable. Or that
you'd even have guys in the Sinister Six who wanted to compared
themselves to him after his death.
Wonder Woman is... a powerful woman? She's not smart like
Batman. Even with the (arguably massive) power-ups that she's
had over the decades, I can't see her as even the most powerful
female hero. Off the top of my head, I'd figure Powergirl and
Supergirl both have her beat on abilities. She wasn't
particularly noble even before DC turned her into a murderer.
She's only an ideal outside of the DC universe. Inside, she'd
just another powerful female that happens to keep showing up in
the big leagues.
grinningdemon
<bai...@coastalnet.com> wrote:
>plausible prose man <George...@aol.com> wrote in
>news:c8b663c0-19e3-40c1...@k4g2000yqb.googlegroups.com:
>> On Oct 16, 2:07�am, Billy Bissette <bai...@coastalnet.com> wrote:
>
>>> � But she is a classic character who once was really popular and
>>> who achieved a position outside of comics that she hasn't had in
>>> them in decades, so DC keeps her in print as well as keeps
>>> pushing stories that try to claim her as being as important
>>> in-universe as she was outside of it. �(The latter being all the
>>> attempts to claim her in-universe being as important as Superman
>>> and Batman.)-
>>
>> I guess I don't really see any way they could exactly be lying about
>> that, since the DC universe has the properties DC Comics says it does.
>> Her powerset is pretty impressive, I guess. I suppose I wouldn't,
>> then, have written the recent Secret Six story line quite the way Gail
>> did, where she becomes so helpless so relatively easily, but,
>> eh...sometimes they do that with Batman, too.
>
> Superman is seen as the ideal and the most powerful hero.
Is he? I'm kind of with Batman in Infinite Crisis when he said Supes
hasn't inspired anyone since he died...for all his supposed power,
Superman is constantly getting bested by characters that are weaker
than him (Batman included)...if he's seen as the ideal and most
powerful hero, I'd argue it's mainly because that his his traditional
role...he's not even the most powerful of the heroes (they even keep
saying Supergirl is more powerful).
>Admittedly, his power levels have varied wildly over the years,
>but he is still perceived that way, and it isn't a stretch to
>see the people inside the DC universe thinking the same way.
>(And besides, it wasn't anyone else that stopped Doomsday.)
To be fair, none of the other big guns of the DCU faced Doomsday...the
JLA of that era was pretty weak compared to other incarnations...an
oversight I think would have made the death of Superman a better
story.
>
> Batman is a somewhat mythical figure that has shaped an entire
>city. He's spawned multiple off-shoot and copycat heroes. He's
>the practical and intelligent hero. While Superman is an alien,
>Batman shows what a regular human can do (though admittedly the
>regular people in the DC universe have no reason to assume that
>Batman is a normal human.) For all the silliness surrounding it,
>the idea of a "Battle for the Cowl" isn't unbelievable. Or that
>you'd even have guys in the Sinister Six who wanted to compared
>themselves to him after his death.
I thought Battle for the Cowl was totally unbelievable as
constructed...first off, they had just done a story shortly before
this one where Batman was gone for a whole year and Gotham didn't fall
apart...secondly, the only benefit to someone else wearing the batsuit
is if the world believes it's still the original...and everyone
already knew he was dead...so, as far as I'm concerned, Dick Grayson
might as well have stayed Nightwing for all the impact his Batman
should have.
And I think you meant Secret Six.
> Wonder Woman is... a powerful woman? She's not smart like
>Batman. Even with the (arguably massive) power-ups that she's
>had over the decades, I can't see her as even the most powerful
>female hero. Off the top of my head, I'd figure Powergirl and
>Supergirl both have her beat on abilities. She wasn't
>particularly noble even before DC turned her into a murderer.
>She's only an ideal outside of the DC universe. Inside, she'd
>just another powerful female that happens to keep showing up in
>the big leagues.
Most often, I would say WW is more or less perceived as a female
Superman...in the DCU, she is often seen as the perfect woman...in the
past, they have also played up her ability to inspire other
women...objectively, it does seem like Powergirl and Supergirl would
have her beat power-wise but I'd bet money we will never see a story
where either of them actually beat her (unless she's been somehow
weakened)...I actually think she's the most noble of the three (but I
don't consider nobility contingent on not killing) because of the
royalty and historical cultural aspects of the character that the
others don't have...and because of the impact she is still shown to
have on the DCU...other heroes are still shown to be in awe of her
most of the time...we could endlessly debate whether or not she
deserves this...but we could do the same for Batman and
Superman...there are other characters in the DCU that can out do
either one of them...but they are still seen as the best...and WW is
too...it's the way it has always been and it would seem totally out of
place if that were to suddenly change.
They are all icons...a status that was achieved long ago...and there
are times when one or all of them no longer seem to deserve it but
that ship sailed a long time ago...you don't seem to understand that
the perception "outside the DC Universe" often carries over to the
inside...real world attitudes about these characters are often
reflected in the comics themselves...if WW is considered an ideal
outside of comics, then it's still going to hold true inside...and, as
with Batman and Superman, when the character is well written, WW seems
to deserve that status...it's just unfortunate that she hasn't been
well written in several years.
plausible prose man
Right, but again...they have those properties because they're written
as having those properties and the other characters in the DCU as
reacting to them that way. (although some writers like to have the
whole Batman act not work on Hal or even Ollie)
> For all the silliness surrounding it,
> the idea of a "Battle for the Cowl" isn't unbelievable.
Yeah, I don't really buy that storyline. I'm not sure who would
seriously contest for that role other than Dick, you know, such that
all the other superheroes would think he was Batman, or at least
Batman II.
> Or that
> you'd even have guys in the Sinister Six who wanted to compared
> themselves to him after his death.
Okay.
> Wonder Woman is... a powerful woman?
Well, she's um...she's a clay statue imbued with the soul of a
murdered cavewoman, I think, and then she's blessed and booned by
various gods and titans, and she's she has some cool magic artifacts
and she's raised by and is the leader of, or at least an influential
figure within, this society of immortal warriors of wonderous
strength, and...
> She's not smart like
> Batman.
Actually, she probably is. I mean, they don't really write her that
way, but that's not good characterization; one of her boons was some
sort of blessing from Athena, the goddess of wisdom and strategy.
> Even with the (arguably massive) power-ups that she's
> had over the decades, I can't see her as even the most powerful
> female hero.
Why not? Jeez, she'd almost have to be.
> Off the top of my head, I'd figure Powergirl and
> Supergirl both have her beat on abilities.
Well, they can shoot laser beams out of their eyes, and they're
apparently more invulnerable, except to magic or kryptonite, and
wonder woman is magic and uses magic artifacts. Plus, I have the
impression that PG is...you know, she's not stupid, exactly, but she's
usually written as having a bit of a temper, and I don't think she has
the Kryptonian super-brain, and she's probably a little depowered
compared to Supergirl, at least if the whole earth-2 v. earth 1 still
holds in some fashion, and I think it does. You know, and I don't
think either of them have any real fighting skills, and wonder woman
is supposedly an amazing martial artist. So if they were to fight,
they'd probably find themselves magic lasso'ed and helpless pretty
fast.
Plus, you know, Supergirl is Superman's cousin, who is just now
shaking off some made for TV lindsay lohan turn, and Powergirl is the
Superman only the old guys remember confused, angry and lonely cousin,
so no matter how powerful they are, they're always going to be Robins
or at most Nightwings.
> She wasn't
> particularly noble
You know, apart from being a princess, and everything
> even before DC turned her into a murderer.
Yeah, I'm not sure how that's murder.
> She's only an ideal outside of the DC universe.
You know, and inside, at least according to the people who live there
or write about it, in the same way Batman and Superman are.
> Inside, she'd
> just another powerful female that happens to keep showing up in
> the big leagues.
The characters who live there don't act that way towards her.
If you don't like the character, you don't have to, but her power set
and background certainly justify her position within the universe.
Bill Steele
Billy Bissette <bai...@coastalnet.com> wrote:
> Outside of her own comic (and at times not even there), it isn't
> even particularly relevant to her stories. Superman has Kryptonite
> constantly showing up, even when enemies from Krypton aren't. Wonder
> Woman has... Uhm...
The lasso in the hands of an enemy; chains welded to her bracelets (not
easy with the removable bracelets of the TV show).
Anlatt the Builder
Amazons are an archetype. Everybody knows about Amazons, whether they
know it from Wonder Woman or any of a number of other sources.
And everybody knows about the Greek Gods too, one way or another.
Wonder Woman, in virtually every incarnation ever seen, is: the
greatest of the Amazons, daughter of their queen, gifted with great
power, nobility, wisdom, and beauty by the Greek Gods themselves.
That ties her to some very well-known characters and themes. I
wouldn't suggest changing it for any reason.
Whether she was molded out of clay by her mother, whether her soul or
the souls of other Amazons came from slain women, whether chaining her
up makes her lose her powers, whether she has an invisible plane -
these I think are things a Wonder Woman movie could either take or
leave, depending on the needs of the story. (They're all things that
have varied widely over the course of the character's publication
history. Although I think they always come back to that damn plane for
some reason.)
I'd keep the lasso, though. It's distinctive. And cool.
None of this, of course, means that Beyonce couldn't play her. The
precise ethnicity of the Amazons is a little vague - even more so 3000
years after the time of the ancient Greeks. And, although I don't
doubt that Beyonce considers herself African-American, she's clearly
of mixed ethnic background herself.
I'm not pushing this particular bit of casting, but I certainly don't
find it unthinkable.
Pat O'Neill
Beyonce as Wonder Woman. No one seeing the film will say "Hey, there's
Wonder Woman..."'; they will say, "Hey, there's Beyonce in a WW
costume!"
Part of what made the Reeve Superman and the Maguire Parker/Spider-man
work is that the actors were not famous. Not total unknowns (both had
substantial resumes at the time), but not actors that the general
public recognized at first glance. Even Keaton as Batman fits that
category; Keaton is a chameleon, looking different in so many roles.
The one possible exception to this rule might be Robert Downey Jr. as
Iron Man--but IM is not as iconic as Supes, Bats, Spidey or Wonder
Woman, and the need for a less-recognizable actor in the role might
not be as important.
I think the producers should look for an actress (not a starlet) with
a reasonable resume and solid resemblance to the character--tall, well-
built, dark hair. Then, for box office, surround her with recognizable
names, maybe even someone "bankable" in a prominent role. And--like
the first season of the TV series--I'd play at least the first movie
as a period piece: Set it in the early days of WW2; it makes for a
good reason for the Amazons to come out of hiding, explains the
costume, and makes some of the male/female dynamics more acceptable.
Plot? I might make it all about the origin...maybe even making what
brings the Amazons out being a German attack on their island, rather
than Steve Trevor's crash landing. That gives you the chance to cast
some of those recognizable/bankable stars as the leaders of the German
attack--maybe even a gorgeous Hollywood blonde as the female spy among
the Amazons or something.