What Happened in Batman R.I.P.?
Anlatt the Builder
s
p
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r
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e
I read it all, really. Maybe I should have waited for the trade.
All the Batvillain-lites in almost familiar costumes. The Batman of
Zur-En-Ar (sp?). Jezebal Jet, who seems to be a villain who owns her
own country or something. Batman's previous experiments with sensory
deprivation and death-like states, manipulated by others to have
effects today. Batman telling Spoiler things that he doesn't tell
Robin, so she can guide Robin in some way. And a parallel, possibly
connected storyline about Hush and Catwoman.
Really, I don't have a clue. Is there anyone who thinks they
understood it? Please lay out your theory of what happened in the
story.
grinningdemon
Basically, a group of spoiled and sadistic rich people who get their
jollies by ruining the lives of important people set their sights on
Batman and try to drive him nuts by attacking Bruce Wayne's history
(i.e. making up all the shit about his parents and Alfred) and taking
away all of Batman's toys (i.e. wrecking the cave and kidnapping his
allies)...as it turns out, master strategist Batman foresaw an attack
like this coming someday and somehow installed another personality in
his own head (the Batman of Zurrenah) to take over and save the day
if this type of thing ever happened...moreover, he also figured out at
least some of this specific plot in advance (i.e. Jezebelle's
connection) and made specific plans against it (i.e. the signal to
open up Arkham) so, when the attack finally came, all of his planning
kicked in and saved him...and Gotham...maybe. That's pretty much
it...except for the League of Batmen showing up in the end to lend a
hand and Talia ultimately taking the extreme vengeance that Batman
himself never would.
You should ignore all the stuff with Spoiler and Hush that happened in
the supposed "tie-ins" because those writers clearly didn't know much
of anything about what was actually going on in the main Batman RIP
storyline (just like us) and so there really isn't any way to
reconcile those with the main story. It was never intended to to be a
crossover and the tie-ins were just poorly coordinated afterthoughts.
Personally, I was far from impressed by RIP...it was seriously
over-hyped and, while I can admit the finale was better than I
expected, it doesn't do anything to improve the rest of the
storyl...reading it in trade would probably make it easier to
understand but it wouldn't make it any better.
black...@aol.com
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
So are Bruce and Tim still Batman and Robin?
plausible prose man
Batman goes missing at the end. Dick might well be Batman, at least
for awhile, but I dont think any of us see that sticking.
Anlatt the Builder
Thanks for the description!
Given all that, how is this Batman R.I.P.? He won, right?
Although it seems a bunch of people know Bruce Wayne is Batman now.
Which may be bad, not only for him, but for Dick, Tim, Alfred....
Raymond Speer
Anlatt frets slightly that the consequence of Batman RIP ought to widen
knowledge that Batman's secret ID is Bruce Wayne. But is that not par
for the course?
Batman's situation with his alter ego was identical to Spider-Man's
secret ID crisis: between nosy reporters, vindictive villains,
ex-girlfriends, supportive cops and assorted others over decades of
constant publications, the largest fraternal organization in the
freaking city is the "I know Our Hero's Secret ID."
We must assume that Joe Quesada is correct and "It Is All Magic." Like
Peter Parker, Bruce Wayne must have sold his soul to the Devil to
preserve his secret ID.
Dan McEwen
news:e75c25c4-adfa-41f9...@v5g2000prm.googlegroups.com
:
> Can anyone explain it?
> s
> p
> o
> i
> l
> e
> r
> s
> p
> a
> c
> e
>
> I read it all, really. Maybe I should have waited for the trade.
>
> All the Batvillain-lites in almost familiar costumes. The Batman
> of Zur-En-Ar (sp?). Jezebal Jet, who seems to be a villain who
> owns her own country or something.
Jezebal Jet is his girlfriend. She was a victim. I don't think
I've seen the end, but it seems to indicate that the villain might
be Thomas Wayne.
Batman's previous experiments with sensory
> deprivation and death-like states, manipulated by others to have
> effects today. Batman telling Spoiler things that he doesn't tell
> Robin, so she can guide Robin in some way. And a parallel,
> possibly connected storyline about Hush and Catwoman.
The Robin/Spoiler thing is weird. Hush is unrelated.
Dan McEwen
news:i5asi4legu7gc0vv4...@4ax.com:
> On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 20:40:11 -0800 (PST), Anlatt the Builder
> <tir...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>Can anyone explain it?
>>s
>>p
>>o
>>i
>>l
>>e
>>r
>>s
>>p
>>a
>>c
>>e
>>
> Basically, a group of spoiled and sadistic rich people who get
> their jollies by ruining the lives of important people set their
> sights on Batman and try to drive him nuts by attacking Bruce
> Wayne's history (i.e. making up all the shit about his parents and
> Alfred) and taking away all of Batman's toys (i.e. wrecking the
> cave and kidnapping his allies)...as it turns out, master
> strategist Batman foresaw an attack like this coming someday and
> somehow installed another personality in his own head (the Batman
> of Zurrenah) to take over and save the day if this type of thing
> ever happened...moreover, he also figured out at least some of
> this specific plot in advance (i.e. Jezebelle's connection) and
> made specific plans against it (i.e. the signal to open up Arkham)
> so, when the attack finally came, all of his planning kicked in
> and saved him...and Gotham...maybe. That's pretty much
> it...except for the League of Batmen showing up in the end to lend
> a hand and Talia ultimately taking the extreme vengeance that
> Batman himself never would.
Wait,Jezebel was one of the villains? Damn. I missed something along
the way somehow. Not sure what was the last issue of this. I haven't
seen it yet.
Brenda Clough
Another theory: Knowing Batman's secret ID is, except in rare cases,
fatal in and of itself. (A recent bit of evidence: this year's Batman
movie. You knew Rachel was doomed.)
Unless you are Robin, past or present, Superman (and occasionally other
JLAers), or Alfred, you are pretty well guaranteed to be toast. If you
learn Batman's ID your only recourse is to hurry and buy life insurance
and draw up your will. Corollary plot development: if you have a
bitter enemy, go confide the information before you croak.
Brenda
--
---------
Brenda W. Clough
http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda/
My novel REVISE THE WORLD is now appearing at
www.bookviewcafe.com
OM
wrote:
>Anlatt frets slightly
...Oh, is *that* what you call his inane whining?
OM
--
]=====================================[
] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [
] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [
] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [
]=====================================[
OM
wrote:
>We must assume that Joe Quesada is correct and "It Is All Magic." Like
>Peter Parker, Bruce Wayne must have sold his soul to the Devil to
>preserve his secret ID.
...We're told that this ties directly into "Final Crisis". I suspect
we'll learn that Dr. Hurt or whatever he's called is really one of
Desaad's human bodies, and this was one of his torturebastion scams.
Who needs Happyland when you've got Gotham City?
OM
wrote:
>Corollary plot development: if you have a
>bitter enemy, go confide the information before you croak.
...And if you'll recall the old official Joe Chill story, when he
found out why Batman was gunning for him, he went to his fellow crooks
to try to get protection, only to get gunned down by those he called
friends when they realized *he* was the reason Batman was the bane of
their existence.
OM
<ferr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Jezebal Jet is his girlfriend. She was a victim. I don't think
>I've seen the end, but it seems to indicate that the villain might
>be Thomas Wayne.
...Read the end before you start advising people like this. Jet was
far from a victim, and was part of the plot all along.
...On a side note, anyone here remember where the "Zur-En-Aargh"
Batman originated from? Supposedly a Golden Age "Batman from Space",
but that appearance escapes even an old fart like me.
Mike B
> Another theory: Knowing Batman's secret ID is, except in rare
> cases, fatal in and of itself. (A recent bit of evidence: this
> year's Batman movie. You knew Rachel was doomed.)
>
> Unless you are Robin, past or present, Superman (and occasionally
> other JLAers), or Alfred, you are pretty well guaranteed to be
> toast. If you learn Batman's ID your only recourse is to hurry and
> buy life insurance and draw up your will. Corollary plot
> development: if you have a bitter enemy, go confide the information
> before you croak.
Now there's a trope they even honored in the first episode of the Adam
West Batman TV show!
With Superman characters, it's more likely you'll somehow catch
amnesia either accidentally or have it deliberately induced by
Superman himself (where's that amnesium?).
Mike B
>....And if you'll recall the old official Joe Chill story, when he
> crooks to try to get protection, only to get gunned down by those
> he called friends when they realized *he* was the reason Batman was
> the bane of their existence.
Wait a minute. I thought that was the old official *Lew Moxon* story...
A real classic, one of my favorites. It has a rare scene where Bats tells
Robin he needs to be alone for a while to think, We see him on a bridge
spanning one of Gotham's rivers, pondering what to do...
Bob Hughes
wrote:
>On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 16:21:09 +0000 (UTC), Dan McEwen
><ferr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Jezebal Jet is his girlfriend. She was a victim. I don't think
>>I've seen the end, but it seems to indicate that the villain might
>>be Thomas Wayne.
>
>...Read the end before you start advising people like this. Jet was
>far from a victim, and was part of the plot all along.
>
>...On a side note, anyone here remember where the "Zur-En-Aargh"
>Batman originated from? Supposedly a Golden Age "Batman from Space",
>but that appearance escapes even an old fart like me.
>
> OM
http://www.supermanartists.comics.org/batman/ZurEnArrh-Batman113-21.jpg
grinningdemon
Tim is still Robin as of this issue...but don't expect that to
last...it'll probably be that psychotic little bastard Damien.
It's looks like Batman's disappearance follows into Final Crisis
somehow...as for the Batman books, we get a few fill-in stories with
no Batman and then the "Battle For the Cowl" arc where apparently
everyone and their uncle has decided they want to be Batman and, if
Didio's cryptic hints are to be believed, that Bruce is no longer
worthy of the cowl because it is bigger than one man and the mantle
must continue...which is total bullshit but Morrison won't rest until
he's thoroughly crapped all over the Batman mythos and ruined or ended
all the other Batbooks he isn't writing.
Didio is getting really good at inspiring writers to quit DC...why
can't he focus that power on Morrison and hopefully get himself fired
in the process?
grinningdemon
He DID win (kind of) but he went missing in the process and most of
Batman/Bruce's property has been trashed...and, as you mention, the
issue of the secret identity being known by so many bad guys now
(although, if Talia keeps going the way she's going, it may not be
such a problem before long).
grinningdemon
It ended in #681 which came out yesterday...but the Jezebel reveal was
actually the cliffhanger of the previous issue...and, given her name
and the rumors surrounding this storyline, I don't think all that many
of us were surprised.
black...@aol.com
This sets up the classic storyline with Dick, Tim, or Alfred appearing
in the Batman costume alongside Bruce Wayne. See he can't be Bruce
Wayne, Bruce Wayne is standing there alongside his old friend Batman
Warewolf
news:8bjui4dijj5pa6j36...@4ax.com:
> ...as for the Batman books, we get...the "Battle For the Cowl" arc where
> apparently everyone and their uncle has decided they want to be Batman...
Well, at least we had the Robin-ning. ^_^'
Signed
Warewolf
A Teen Titans (semi-)fan.
Warewolf
4619-8749-b...@w34g2000yqm.googlegroups.com:
> Batman goes missing at the end. Dick might well be Batman, at least
> for awhile, but I dont think any of us see that sticking.
Two words - Superman:Doomsday
Billy Bissette
news:Xns9B63C03637B3D...@69.16.185.250:
Knightfall
That was the name of the Bane breaking Batman's back
storyline/aftermath, wasn't it? If not, insert the name of
that instead.
Mike B
> It's looks like Batman's disappearance
> follows into Final Crisis somehow...
Perhaps this will be the point where the forces of Darkseid capture
him and seal him in some sort of capsule. As seen (IIRC) in FINAL
CRISIS #1, where he shouts out a warning to "Terrible" Turpin....
dsi...@yahoo.com
Speaking of which, does anyone -- Morrison included -- have any idea
where Final Crisis falls in present continuity? Using that word is
dangerous in the DCU, but between Hush, New Krypton, and the Manazons
thing, I have no idea where either Trinity or FC fall?
--Dave Sikula
OM
>This sets up the classic storyline with Dick, Tim, or Alfred appearing
>in the Batman costume alongside Bruce Wayne.
...Actually, what's going to happen is that by the time DC celebrates
its centennial, we'll discover that Bruce has been tapping into
something called the "Bat-Force", and it'll be he, Dick, Tim, Babs,
Cassandra, Steph, Damien and even Jason who'll all be wearing Batman
suits with only minor variations to distinguish them from one another.
Then, in another "Final Aftercrisis" crossover, the entire Bat-verse
will be set back to normal when the Batman of Earth-2 breaks out of
the heaven he went to way back in that issue of "Adventure" by
breaking through the dimensional barriers with a Batarang. This
resulting "Bat-Punch" will undo everything that's been screwed up
about the Bat-books since...well, let's just say R.I.P. will stand for
Rejected, Ignored Plot and leave it at that :-)
OM
wrote:
>>...On a side note, anyone here remember where the "Zur-En-Aargh"
>>Batman originated from? Supposedly a Golden Age "Batman from Space",
>>but that appearance escapes even an old fart like me.
>>
>http://www.supermanartists.comics.org/batman/ZurEnArrh-Batman113-21.jpg
...Ah. This is one issue of "Batman" that I don't have either in my
physical collection or in my scans. That explains why I didn't recall
it. Boy, Morrisson must have *really* been stretching it to come up
with this one :-P
OM
>Now there's a trope they even honored in the first episode of the Adam
>West Batman TV show!
...Yeah, but it gave us the only view down the pit of the Batcave
reactor :-)
Anlatt the Builder
> On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 06:07:39 -0600, rays...@webtv.net (Raymond Speer)
> wrote:
>
> >Anlatt frets slightly
>
> ...Oh, is *that* what you call his inane whining?
>
>
Gosh, OM may have killfiled me, but he's STILL thinking about me! I'm
so flattered.
Amazing how willing he is to make insulting comments about a post he
refuses to read - and then participate actively in the thread that
post started.
Mike B
> Mike B <M1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Now there's a trope they even honored in the first
>> episode of the Adam West Batman TV show!
>
Exactly, and I think that may have been the only time they did
anything with the Batreactor other than have sit in a corner. I don't
think it's ever been mentioned in any other media.
Warewolf
news:b6sui45t0emjamsmo...@4ax.com:
> On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 18:06:40 -0800 (PST), "black...@aol.com"
> <black...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>This sets up the classic storyline with Dick, Tim, or Alfred appearing
>>in the Batman costume alongside Bruce Wayne.
>
> ...Actually, what's going to happen is that by the time DC celebrates
> its centennial, we'll discover that Bruce has been tapping into
> something called the "Bat-Force", and it'll be he, Dick, Tim, Babs,
> Cassandra, Steph, Damien and even Jason who'll all be wearing Batman
> suits with only minor variations to distinguish them from one another.
> Then, in another "Final Aftercrisis" crossover, the entire Bat-verse
> will be set back to normal when the Batman of Earth-2 breaks out of
> the heaven he went to way back in that issue of "Adventure" by
> breaking through the dimensional barriers with a Batarang. This
> resulting "Bat-Punch" will undo everything that's been screwed up
> about the Bat-books since...well, let's just say R.I.P. will stand for
> Rejected, Ignored Plot and leave it at that :-)
So, once again, the day is saved thanks to...
The Powerpuff Girls!!
*bzzt*
o/` Earthworm Jim o/`
*bzzt*
o/` Sam and Max... Free-lance Po-lice o/`
Jake Morgendorffer: What is wrong with this cable...?
*He looks outside...and sees a small, black rodent dancing on the wire*
Jake: GAAHH!!! Squirrels!!
Squirrel Girl: Sorry, sir, my friend got into some fermented walnuts.
Tippy Toe, you get down here this instant!! Shame on you!
*Jake closes the window...and leans against it for a moment*
Jake: This can't be happening. That giant squirrel just...GAAAHH!!
*Jake screams again as he grabs his face*
*Turns out his eyes have become bloodshot*
Daria: Quinn, get the camera.
Raymond Speer
Frankly, Warewolf, I would welcome the introduction of the Powerpuff
Girls as Gotham City's protectors over the Contest for the Cowl. If
scripted to the customary Powerpuff standard, the girls will be far
superior to the sewage served up by Morrison.
Brenda Clough
> On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 18:06:40 -0800 (PST), "black...@aol.com"
> <black...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> This sets up the classic storyline with Dick, Tim, or Alfred appearing
>> in the Batman costume alongside Bruce Wayne.
>
> ...Actually, what's going to happen is that by the time DC celebrates
> its centennial, we'll discover that Bruce has been tapping into
> something called the "Bat-Force", and it'll be he, Dick, Tim, Babs,
> Cassandra, Steph, Damien and even Jason who'll all be wearing Batman
> suits with only minor variations to distinguish them from one another.
> Then, in another "Final Aftercrisis" crossover, the entire Bat-verse
> will be set back to normal when the Batman of Earth-2 breaks out of
> the heaven he went to way back in that issue of "Adventure" by
> breaking through the dimensional barriers with a Batarang. This
> resulting "Bat-Punch" will undo everything that's been screwed up
> about the Bat-books since...well, let's just say R.I.P. will stand for
> Rejected, Ignored Plot and leave it at that :-)
>
> OM
My theory is they are seizing the interregnum between Batman movies to
steer way off the road. They know that by July 2011, or whenever the
release date of the next Batman blockbuster is, that Bruce Wayne,
Alfred, et al must be back in place again. So whatever happens between
now and then is not, cannot be real. The power of the movies trumps
even Morrison.
plausible prose man
>
> Given all that, how is this Batman R.I.P.?
He's gone for a while, and the hint is he's not coming back.
>He won, right?
Well, duh...
> Although it seems a bunch of people know Bruce Wayne is Batman now.
It appears the joker does, but there's nothing unequivocal, and of
course he might get amnesia between now and the next time you see him
in a comic.
plausible prose man
> OM wrote:
> >....And if you'll recall the old official Joe Chill story, when he
> > found out why Batman was gunning for him, he went to his fellow
> > crooks to try to get protection, only to get gunned down by those
> > he called friends when they realized *he* was the reason Batman was
> > the bane of their existence.
>
> Wait a minute. I thought that was the old official *Lew Moxon* story...
No, that's "The Origin of Batman," from Batman #47, 1948. There is no
mention of Lew Moxon in this story. Lew Moxon, and the "Bruce was
inspired by his father's Halloween costume" trope, appear in 1956, in
a story called "The First Batman" which appears in Detective #235.
While Joe Chill is mentioned in the later story, his death is
retconned somewhat, and the idea he's killed because its his fault
Batman exists is weakened. In a flash back, he's shown as being shot
down by other mobsters who hold a "grudge" against him. No mention is
made that this has anything to do with Batman, and that this turn of
events is described as "ironic" implies just the opposite. It's also
stated Batman has been actively searching for his parents killer,
while in the original story its really just a coincidence Bruce and
Dick run across him.
> A real classic, one of my favorites. It has a rare scene where Bats tells
> Robin he needs to be alone for a while to think,
He doesn't so much tell Robin he needs to be alone as he needs to
solve this case by himself; here's the actual dialogue:
Caption: At home, after BATMAN explains to his young partner....
Robin: The killer of your parents, eh? Well...let's go get him!
Batman: Sorry ROBIN, this is one job I'm doing alone! I don't have to
explain - you can understand why!
> We see him on a bridge
> spanning one of Gotham's rivers, pondering what to do...
He's more considering how to do something than what:
"I'm closing in on Joe Chill...but how can I make him confess that he
killed my father?"
Bob Hughes
>
>Speaking of which, does anyone -- Morrison included -- have any idea
>where Final Crisis falls in present continuity? Using that word is
>dangerous in the DCU, but between Hush, New Krypton, and the Manazons
>thing, I have no idea where either Trinity or FC fall?
>
>--Dave Sikula
After. FC is after all these other stories. Trinity is an Elseworlds
and doesn't count at all.
plausible prose man
> On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 20:12:06 -0500, Bob Hughes <bobhug...@ttlc.net>
> wrote:
>
> >>...On a side note, anyone here remember where the "Zur-En-Aargh"
> >>Batman originated from? Supposedly a Golden Age "Batman from Space",
> >>but that appearance escapes even an old fart like me.
>
> >http://www.supermanartists.comics.org/batman/ZurEnArrh-Batman113-21.jpg
>
> ...Ah. This is one issue of "Batman" that I don't have either in my
> physical collection or in my scans. That explains why I didn't recall
> it. Boy, Morrisson must have *really* been stretching it to come up
> with this one :-P
You know, or reading a bunch of old Batman comics (I believe the
cover appears in Batman from the '30s to the 70's), or talking to Mike
W. Barr about his favorite Batman comics
Tim Turnip
>cover appears in Batman from the '30s to the 70's)...
Yes, and the entire story ("Batman -- The Superman of Planet X!") was
reprinted in the Batman In The Fifties collection. I would regard it
as one of the keystone tales of the "sci-fi" Batman period, along with
"The Interplanetary Batman" (in which the Dynamic Duo are captured
along with an alien space pirate) and the stories which featured Brane
Taylor, the Batman of the 31st century.
Warewolf
4b7b-8cc8-1...@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
'It's true, Batsy, I know everything...and kind of like the kid who peeks
at his christmas presents, I must admit, it's sadly anti-climactic. Behind
all the sturm and bat-a-rangs, you're just a little boy in a playsuit
crying for mommy and daddy. It'd be funny if it weren't so pathetic.
Aw, what the heck, I'll laugh anyway.
HAAAAA-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-HAAAAAA!!!'
-- Ol' Clownface himself, Return of the Joker
OM
>Exactly, and I think that may have been the only time they did
>anything with the Batreactor other than have sit in a corner. I don't
>think it's ever been mentioned in any other media.
...It was mentioned in at least two other episodes. One where we see
fuel cables running from the reactor to the exhaust of the Batmobile,
and another where Alfred has scaled to the top floor of it and is
*dusting*! Batman even admonishes Alfred to be careful up there!!
OM
wrote:
>Trinity is an Elseworlds and doesn't count at all.
...Care to cite source on that?
black...@aol.com
We know now for sure that the Joker does know Bruce is Batman. Its
just as likely he could have long ago deduced this and done nothing
about it. There's always that element of the Joker that he does what
he does just to attract Batman's attention.
bllbickel
> On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 18:06:40 -0800 (PST), "blackje...@aol.com"
>
> <blackje...@aol.com> wrote:
> >This sets up the classic storyline with Dick, Tim, or Alfred appearing
> >in the Batman costume alongside Bruce Wayne.
>
> ...Actually, what's going to happen is that by the time DC celebrates
> its centennial, we'll discover that Bruce has been tapping into
> something called the "Bat-Force", and it'll be he, Dick, Tim, Babs,
> Cassandra, Steph, Damien and even Jason who'll all be wearing Batman
> suits with only minor variations to distinguish them from one another.
> Then, in another "Final Aftercrisis" crossover, the entire Bat-verse
> will be set back to normal when the Batman of Earth-2 breaks out of
> the heaven he went to way back in that issue of "Adventure" by
> breaking through the dimensional barriers with a Batarang. This
> resulting "Bat-Punch" will undo everything that's been screwed up
> about the Bat-books since...well, let's just say R.I.P. will stand for
> Rejected, Ignored Plot and leave it at that :-)
>
> OM
Don't be silly: Batman had worked out well in advance how he would
break through the dimensional barriers from Heaven, but didn't trust
anybody enough to tell him he'd be back.
Bill Bickel
http://www.comicsidontunderstand.com
Mike B
>>> ....And if you'll recall the old official Joe Chill story, when he
>>> found out why Batman was gunning for him, he went to his fellow
>>> crooks to try to get protection, only to get gunned down by those
>>> he called friends when they realized *he* was the reason Batman was
>>> the bane of their existence.
I replied:
>> Wait a minute. I thought that was the old official *Lew Moxon* story...
plausible prose man wrote:
> No, that's "The Origin of Batman," from Batman #47, 1948. There is no
> mention of Lew Moxon in this story. Lew Moxon, and the "Bruce was
> inspired by his father's Halloween costume" trope, appear in 1956, in
> a story called "The First Batman" which appears in Detective #235. [etc]
Thanks for the correction; I really should pick up an archive/Showcase
Presents volume with those stories.
Anlatt the Builder
story, or is it just Morrison reaching into the early Silver Age to be
cute?
plausible prose man
Yeah, its a code word dr hurt uses to trigger a fugue state in
batman's subconscious. Batman, however, thought of that, and has a
back up personality, a super Batman of Planet X ready to go. Also, the
very end of the story suggests a kind of rosebud origin of the
phrase.
argento32
Now the big revelation behind Zur-En Aargh has been revealed. In a
flashback scene when they are coming from the Zorro film. Bruce's dad
says " If Zorro was real he be in ARkham." Zorro in Arkham..Zur-En
Aargh."
No I am not joking the reveal is actually that mind-numblingly stupid.
Oh the thing that really can take Batman down is stopping his parents
from being called pervs.
Bob Hughes
wrote:
>On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 10:42:04 -0500, Bob Hughes <bobh...@ttlc.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Trinity is an Elseworlds and doesn't count at all.
>
>...Care to cite source on that?
>
>
> OM
Did I say I had a source? Did I say somebody at DC ever even bothered
to think about this?
Brenda Clough
Sadly, this does say all that needs to be said.
OM
wrote:
>Sadly, this does say all that needs to be said.
...Yep. It does. Which is why I plonked him.
David Johnston
Well you know if there was someone like Zorro running around they'd
put him en Arkham.
Warewolf
97d5b1...@d32g2000yqe.googlegroups.com:
> Now the big revelation behind Zur-En Aargh has been revealed. In a
> flashback scene when they are coming from the Zorro film. Bruce's dad
> says " If Zorro was real he be in ARkham." Zorro in Arkham..Zur-En
> Aargh."
>
> No I am not joking the reveal is actually that mind-numblingly stupid.
Next Issue - why the Wonder Twins are really Robin's 'imaginary friends'.
Anlatt the Builder
> On Nov 29, 5:18 am, Anlatt the Builder <tirh...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > So did "Zur-En-Aargh" turn out to mean anything in the context of the
> > story, or is it just Morrison reaching into the early Silver Age to be
> > cute?
>
> Now the big revelation behind Zur-En Aargh has been revealed. In a
> flashback scene when they are coming from the Zorro film. Bruce's dad
> says " If Zorro was real he be in ARkham." Zorro in Arkham..Zur-En
> Aargh."
>
> No I am not joking the reveal is actually that mind-numblingly stupid.
>
Wow. No wonder it went right by me. Thanks.
CraigS
If there was an Arkham.
Duggy
> Knightfall
> That was the name of the Bane breaking Batman's back
> storyline/aftermath, wasn't it? If not, insert the name of
> that instead.
Knightfall was the back breaking.
Knightsquest: The Crusade, Knightsquest: The Search and Knightsend
were the aftermath.
===
= DUG.
===
newto...@mypacks.net
On Nov 29, 10:54 am, Bob Hughes <bobhug...@ttlc.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 14:36:10 -0600, OM <om@all_trolls_must_DIE.com>
> wrote:
>
> >wrote:
>
> >>Trinity is an Elseworlds and doesn't count at all.
>
> >...Care to cite source on that?
>
> > OM
>
> Did I say I had a source? Did I say somebody at DC ever even bothered
> to think about this?
Trinity is NOT an "Elseworlds" (which doesn't even exist anymore), but
neither does it fit into any "current" events (RIP, New Krypton, Final
Crisis, etc). It's set on New Earth and references events post-
Countdown (multiverse, monitors, etc.) but nothing specific to current
ongoing titles. Just think of it as a very long JLA story that happens
somewhere between Crises.
Bob Hughes
wrote:
That sounds awfully like an "elseworlds" to me. If you don't like
"elseworlds" how about "imaginary story"?
If that doesn't work, try "major fuck-up".
grinningdemon
wrote:
>On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 08:11:31 -0800 (PST), newto...@mypacks.net
Trinity certainly hasn't been great but it is hardly a "major
fuck-up"...that description is better suited to RIP and Final
Crisis...which, by the way, no more fit in continuity with other DC
books than Trinity does.
DC has no real continuity anymore...since Infinite Crisis ended, they
just don't seem to care about it at all...the only real continuity
left is between books by the same writer and sometimes even they don't
match up.
black...@aol.com
> On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 08:11:31 -0800 (PST), newton58...@mypacks.net
Hey watch the language. Find a better way to express yourself. Kids
come to this newsgroup.
Bob Hughes
And how are you saying anything different than what I said?
In a recent message on the DC boards, Busiek said Trinity takes place
in an altered reality- the current DC Universe "transformed".
Tim Turnip
wrote:
In Trinity, reality is altered temporarily as part of the story, due
to a magic spell. The story itself does not take place in a different
reality except during that time where the villains' spell is in
effect.
Eminence
Oh, please. Next you'll be telling us that kids read comics.
Eminence
_______________
Usenet: Global Village of the Damned
Warewolf
91fe-051...@j35g2000yqh.googlegroups.com:
> Hey watch the language. Find a better way to express yourself. Kids
> come to this newsgroup.
A lot of them also go to school and other 'hangouts' where they learn far
worse examples of 'free expression'.
You can't shield them from 'da bad stuff' forever so the best thing you can
do, if you have the time, is to talk to them about it.
Then again, they may surprise you at how much they already know. ^_^
Signed,
Warewolf
who has a niece and nephew himself.
Warewolf
@storefull-3333.bay.webtv.net:
> Frankly, Warewolf, I would welcome the introduction of the Powerpuff
> Girls as Gotham City's protectors over the Contest for the Cowl. If
> scripted to the customary Powerpuff standard, the girls will be far
> superior to the sewage served up by Morrison.
It's actually why I included Earthworm Jim and the Freelance Police (and
almost included the Tick) in that last response - their 'universes' are
so 'encompassing' that almost anything can happen (and often does). ^_^
Then again, would you want the likes of Steve Purcell, Ben Edlund or even
Jhonen Vasquez adding to the mess or do you truly believe that they can
salvage what's left of the 'Big Two'? (Apparently Marvel isn't doing
much better) 9_9
My own solution involves blowing everything to smithereens with cartoon
dynamite and having caricatures of Siegel, Shuster, Kane and Marston say
to the characters, 'Here is how it's gonna play...'. The characters will
provide their input (I'm sure that Supergirl would rather avoid living on
a farm in Kansas) but the universe will (hopefully) run more smoothly via
the self contained stories and arcs that will eventually arrive - past
continuity be damned.
Then again, since I haven't been in the loop for a number of years, it's
possible that this 'spring cleaning' was already attempted via one of
their past 'events'.
If that's the case, it may be far more than a job for a worm in a
mechanical suit.
Oh well, someone will sort it out. ^_^
Signed,
Warewolf
who doubts that Captain Carrot and Sailor Morgendorffer will be part of
the 'Rebirth of Life Equation'
Daria: Hi, I'm Sailor Moon. Welcome to Lawndale. I'm tired of making
these ridiculous speeches so how about you tell us what you're *really*
looking for.
Monster of the Week: RAAARRRR!!!
Jane: Has quite a vocabulary, doesn't he?
Daria: Education is obviously a strong point in the Dark Kingdom.
Jane: Yeah, lucky them.
[The two 'Sailor Soldiers' adopt battle stances]
[just as their opponent launches himself]
[on a path to inevitable destruction]
OM
>Hey watch the language. Find a better way to express yourself. Kids
>come to this newsgroup.
...Is that fucking right? Name *two*, then.
Clue: Profanity has been a part of Usenet since Day Two. Either deal
with it, or take your whining somewhere else.
OM
wrote:
>You can't shield them from 'da bad stuff' forever so the best thing you can
>do, if you have the time, is to talk to them about it.
...The guy's posting from AOHell. Were you expecting openmindedness,
tolerance and acceptance?
Hand-of-Omega
Now, did they want to attack Bruce or Batman, first? They knew the two
were one
because Dr. Hurt ran the isolation tests on Batman, during which he
learned his identity.
Which is one of the weaker points of the plot, that Batman would allow
himself to be placed in
a situation where he was so vulnerable to people working for the
government that he didn't know.
Maybe Silver Age Batman would do so, and Morrison stated that all
those stories did happen to the current guy...but I thought
the whole point of the original Crisis was that those stories *didn't*
happen to this Batman anymore? Even less so after New Earth...
>as it turns out, master strategist Batman foresaw an attack
> like this coming someday and somehow installed another personality in
> his own head (the Batman of Zurrenah) to take over and save the day
> if this type of thing ever happened...
The deliberate confusion of Batman's isolation tests with the Tibetan
ritual memories (implying that
he was still in one or the other) really made it hard to follow. And
who's the "dark master"? If not Ras, then I
guess it's a storyline Morrison has in store for us...
>moreover, he also figured out at
> least some of this specific plot in advance (i.e. Jezebelle's
> connection) and made specific plans against it (i.e. the signal to
> open up Arkham) so, when the attack finally came, all of his planning
> kicked in and saved him...and Gotham...maybe.
Altho the "I researched you, learned everything about you, and stole
the most precious thing to you" speech made me smile...
it still felt like cheating, as we the readers were never given any
chance to even notice these things going on. It reminds me of the
speech
about poorly written murder mysteries at the end of "Murder by
Death"...
> That's pretty much
> it...except for the League of Batmen showing up in the end to lend a
> hand and Talia ultimately taking the extreme vengeance that Batman
> himself never would.
>
Is that what happened in that last page with her? I couldn't make it
out...What did
the phone call and the bats have to do with anything?
Speaking of Jezebel, was I the only one expecting some sort of...you
know, REASON she wanted to destroy Batman? Something personal, instead
of just, I guess, picking his name out of a hat? Hell, I'm starting to
miss the Jean Loring days of crazy motivations...Dr. Hurt seems like a
character a little too close to Hush; maybe it should have been him? I
wonder if Hush would have accepted their offer like the Joker did?
Maybe he'll team up with Hurt in the future....
And Bat-Mite. Was it significant that his name was spelled "Might"?
And what was up with the creepy monster clinging to its back, like a
puppet master? We thought it was all in his head,
but one of the Black Glove goons actually saw it ("What's that thing
behind you?!")...
Dex
OM
<hando...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Now, did they want to attack Bruce or Batman, first? They knew the two
>were one because Dr. Hurt ran the isolation tests on Batman, during which he
>learned his identity. Which is one of the weaker points of the plot, that Batman would allow
>himself to be placed in a situation where he was so vulnerable to people working for the
>government that he didn't know.
...Actually, this week's "Batman" just might have given us a major
clue as to what this was all about. It never really happened except in
Bruce's mind, in a hallucination created by the Lump courtesy of
Mokkari and Simyan in the Evil Factory.
<thinks>
...No, strike that. Morrisson couldn't come up with something *that*
complex and rational.
grinningdemon
<hando...@hotmail.com> wrote:
It seems Batman was the initial target but it's kind of a chicken/egg
type thing...hard to follow.
They knew the two
>were one
>because Dr. Hurt ran the isolation tests on Batman, during which he
>learned his identity.
>Which is one of the weaker points of the plot, that Batman would allow
>himself to be placed in
>a situation where he was so vulnerable to people working for the
>government that he didn't know.
>Maybe Silver Age Batman would do so, and Morrison stated that all
>those stories did happen to the current guy...but I thought
>the whole point of the original Crisis was that those stories *didn't*
>happen to this Batman anymore? Even less so after New Earth...
DC has been reintroducing a lot of Silver Age stuff lately...with
varying degrees of success.
>
>>as it turns out, master strategist Batman foresaw an attack
>> like this coming someday and somehow installed another personality in
>> his own head (the Batman of Zurrenah) to take over and save the day
>> if this type of thing ever happened...
>
>The deliberate confusion of Batman's isolation tests with the Tibetan
>ritual memories (implying that
>he was still in one or the other) really made it hard to follow. And
>who's the "dark master"? If not Ras, then I
>guess it's a storyline Morrison has in store for us...
If Morrison comes back to the book...which I hope he doesn't.
>
>>moreover, he also figured out at
>> least some of this specific plot in advance (i.e. Jezebelle's
>> connection) and made specific plans against it (i.e. the signal to
>> open up Arkham) so, when the attack finally came, all of his planning
>> kicked in and saved him...and Gotham...maybe.
>
>Altho the "I researched you, learned everything about you, and stole
>the most precious thing to you" speech made me smile...
>it still felt like cheating, as we the readers were never given any
>chance to even notice these things going on. It reminds me of the
>speech
>about poorly written murder mysteries at the end of "Murder by
>Death"...
>
>> That's pretty much
>> it...except for the League of Batmen showing up in the end to lend a
>> hand and Talia ultimately taking the extreme vengeance that Batman
>> himself never would.
>>
>Is that what happened in that last page with her? I couldn't make it
>out...What did
>the phone call and the bats have to do with anything?
Talia earlier said she'd take care of things...and ninja Man-bats
answer to her...so it's not much of a stretch to figure out who was on
the phone.
>
>Speaking of Jezebel, was I the only one expecting some sort of...you
>know, REASON she wanted to destroy Batman? Something personal, instead
>of just, I guess, picking his name out of a hat? Hell, I'm starting to
>miss the Jean Loring days of crazy motivations...Dr. Hurt seems like a
>character a little too close to Hush; maybe it should have been him? I
>wonder if Hush would have accepted their offer like the Joker did?
>Maybe he'll team up with Hurt in the future....
Disappointment abounds.
>
>And Bat-Mite. Was it significant that his name was spelled "Might"?
>And what was up with the creepy monster clinging to its back, like a
>puppet master? We thought it was all in his head,
>but one of the Black Glove goons actually saw it ("What's that thing
>behind you?!")...
>
>Dex
I doubt even Morrison knows.
johnm...@gmail.com
> Can anyone explain it?
> s
> p
> o
> i
> l
> e
> r
> s
> p
> a
> c
> e
>
> I read it all, really. Maybe I should have waited for the trade.
>
> All the Batvillain-lites in almost familiar costumes. The Batman of
> Zur-En-Ar (sp?). Jezebal Jet, who seems to be a villain who owns her
> connected storyline about Hush and Catwoman.
>
> story.
He is presumed dead from here on out, until they reveal a new batman and robin. This is a foreshadow for the series that would follow called, "Battle for the cowl" basically anybody who had any affiliation with batman begins trying to pick up the slack left by the death of batman. Dick grayson takes up the cowl for a while before returning to Nightwing, Azrael who once took up his role is again seen trying to become batman again. Robin begins searching for bruce wayne, correctly deducing, and in my opinion realizing his dream of becoming the worlds greatest detective, that Bruce wayne is still alive. Hus takes advantage of his enemies dissapearance and poses as bruce wayne, having performed enough surgery on himself to appear to be the twin figure of Bruce wayne. Nightwing finds out, and basically ties him the company, forcing him to actually be careful with the company, and yadda yadda yadda. Long story short, RIP was a major staple DC continuity, and actually acted as a catalyst for a great number of follow ups and offshoots, Huntress becomes a better crime fighter, Bruce finds out he has a child with Talia, Robin becomes Red Robin, much like Nightwing, a solo crimefighter, so much comes out of RIP's plotline. Basically Iloved this book.