Superman/Dirty Pair! Yay!
David Crowe
Wizard #81 had a little news blurb announcing that Adam Warren will be
doing a 2-issue Dirty Pair/Superman crossover late this year or early '99.
The DP will travel back to the 20th century DCU.
It will involve the real, classic Superman, since the illo shows Kei
committing the cardinal sin of tugging on Superman's cape. :)
I'm stoked, of course. Does anyone else have any thoughts?
--
David "No Nickname" Crowe http://www.primenet.com/~jetman UPDATED!
I salute you, Priest, for tossing together two vastly different
Marvel characters for seemingly no reason. The way it's supposed to be.
-Mike Smith
plaid lad!
David Crowe wrote in message <6fkkgh$j...@nntp02.primenet.com>...
[Adam Warren's "Dirty Pair/Superman" crossover...]
>I'm stoked, of course. Does anyone else have any thoughts?
not to sound like an ultrafan boy, but if it's true HELL YEAH! i really dug
warren's "titans" project last year.
i just wish that warren's version of the titan's would have been a
continuing series...
-plaid lad!-
oh the carnage... but just remember, "it's not their fault!"
Scott A. Edwards
David Crowe wrote:
>
> I'm stoked, of course. Does anyone else have any thoughts?
>
Say, what's that sound?
I do believe its the entire DCU quaking in fear.
--
Scott A. Edwards
ma...@concentric.net
Things I've Learned In Life #163
'Never go camping with Navy SEALs and a roll of duct tape'
Len-L
David Crowe wrote:
>
> Wizard #81 had a little news blurb announcing that Adam Warren will be
> doing a 2-issue Dirty Pair/Superman crossover late this year or early '99.
> The DP will travel back to the 20th century DCU.
>
> It will involve the real, classic Superman, since the illo shows Kei
> committing the cardinal sin of tugging on Superman's cape. :)
OK, for those of us with sheltered lives, who are the Dirty Pair?
---
Len-L
Michael Welsh Duggan
David Crowe <jet...@primenet.com> writes:
> Wizard #81 had a little news blurb announcing that Adam Warren will be
> doing a 2-issue Dirty Pair/Superman crossover late this year or early '99.
> The DP will travel back to the 20th century DCU.
>
Considering that it seems to be written and illustrated by Warren,
I'll probably be picking it up. On the other hand, I could care less
that Superman is involved. I also don't think that he and the Dirty
Pair are the sort of characters who'd work well together, as there's
really no common ground they can meet on.
I'm also not sure how this could play out as a two-issue series. Maybe
as a extra-large one shot, but two issues sounds like one issue too
much.
At best, I expect this to be a nice side-story that won't be that
important in the long run. At worst, it could be like another in the
endless series of MARSHAL LAW cross-overs which go nowhere, and don't
seem to mind that Law seems out-of-place in anything other than his
own twisted world.
DAVE "The Knave" WHITE, talentless hack
"Those who induce these stressors on you, were individually not your friends
in the first place, for they wish through these stressors to either brainwash
you, transvalue your sex, or even kill you with alphabet soup."
--Owen W. Gustafson
Michael Welsh Duggan
Kei and Yuri, the infamous "Dirty Pair", are a team of trouble
consultants who work for the 3WA, who happen to cause misery and
suffering wherever they go (purely by accident, of course).
Or, in other words, they're a sort of super-elite government strike
force consisting of two buxom babes in bikinis, who trot around a
futuristic galaxy shooting things with huge guns. But it's all done in
the spirit of good fun.
In the US, Dirty Pair comics are done by Adam Warren (and Toren
Smith). They're based on characters from a Japanese TV show and a few
novels, but at this point most of the resemblance between the American
Dirty Pair and their Japanese progenitors has evaporated (Warren's
version is a lot more cynical and a whole lot funnier, because it
realizes for the most part how ludicrous the premise is).
If you're interested, a whole line of Dirty Pair compilations can be
ordered from Dark Horse comics, but only the last few ("A Plague of
Angels", "Sim Hell" and "Fatal But Not Serious") are truly amazing.
Great art, fun stories. Though if you're not a big fan of manga or
manga-inspired stuff, this is probably not for you.
Jim Smith
Michael Welsh Duggan wrote:
>
> Len-L <len...@this.net> writes:
> > OK, for those of us with sheltered lives, who are the Dirty Pair?
>
> Kei and Yuri, the infamous "Dirty Pair", are a team of trouble
> consultants who work for the 3WA, who happen to cause misery and
> suffering wherever they go (purely by accident, of course).
> Or, in other words, they're a sort of super-elite government strike
> force consisting of two buxom babes in bikinis, who trot around a
> futuristic galaxy shooting things with huge guns.
This level of honesty about the Pair is incredibly refreshing.
But it's all done in
> the spirit of good fun.
So is half the Maximum/Extreme/Awesome universe. But I guess it's
manga, which makes it okay.
I'll be giving the Dirty Pair a chance with this crossover, but I've
never understood why they and similar manga concepts aren't as hated as
American-style Bad Girls. Maybe they'll prove me wrong, or maybe
manga-style Superman will kick a lot of ass, but I'll believe it when I
see it...
Jim Smith
--
Name Jim's Cat! Details at <http://www.wworld.com/users/5smith/jim/>
Marvel Comics Hostess Fruit Pies Homepage <http://www.sigma.net/tastee/>
The Steel Homepage <http://sac.uky.edu/~mpsmit0/steel/>
Jim Smith
Michael Welsh Duggan wrote:
>
> David Crowe <jet...@primenet.com> writes:
> > Wizard #81 had a little news blurb announcing that Adam Warren will be
> > doing a 2-issue Dirty Pair/Superman crossover late this year or early '99.
> > The DP will travel back to the 20th century DCU.
> >
> > I'm stoked, of course. Does anyone else have any thoughts?
> Considering that it seems to be written and illustrated by Warren,
> I'll probably be picking it up. On the other hand, I could care less
> that Superman is involved.
Commie. It *is* Normal Un-Messed-Up Supes, y'know.
I also don't think that he and the Dirty
> Pair are the sort of characters who'd work well together, as there's
> really no common ground they can meet on.
Heck, I could care less about the Pair, and Warren sold it to me in the
Wizard article: Superman goes around stopping disasters, and Kei and
Yuri *cause* disasters. If that's not common ground, I don't know what
is. I'm imagining Doomsday and Massacre with half a personality and
soft, round breasts.
Michael Welsh Duggan
Jim Smith <jimna...@hotmail.com> writes:
> This level of honesty about the Pair is incredibly refreshing.
Well, it's not like I'm misrepresenting them or anything. They _are_
two buxom babes in bikinis, who trot around the galaxy shooting things
with huge guns.
> I'll be giving the Dirty Pair a chance with this crossover, but I've
> never understood why they and similar manga concepts aren't as hated as
> American-style Bad Girls.
Mostly because it's done in the name of comedy, and is essentially
absurd. Why are they wearing silver bikinis? Because the infallible
computer which runs everything says they should, and the computer is
never wrong. Why are they still working if they're responsible for the
deaths of millions? Again, the computer has exonerated them of all
charges. Why are they mega-popular? No-one knows, and every
god-fearing person wishes to hell they weren't. Let's face it, each
time they get assigned to a new planet people leave it in droves,
either deliberately or in coffins. It is deliberately pointed out that
the main characters are indeed vacuous and stupid.
On the other hand, most other bad girl comics seem to be about huge
balloon-breasted women who rip out intestines and dance in fountains
of blood. It's funny in some ways, but not particularly humorous (at
least, not intentionally). Everyone takes everything so damn
seriously...
Also, Kei and Yuri predate the bad girl trend by years. They've been
around in Japan since the early eighties, and the American version was
first published in 88/89, possibly even earlier.
Or perhaps I'm just a pathetic loser trying to defend his personal
tastes to a man who writes Hostess Fruit Pie ads for fun. No, that
can't possibly be it. It must be something else.
As for "similar concepts", I'd guess it's mostly because of a
hard-core bunch of devotees who aren't critical in the least. The
Dirty Pair, at least, are completely disconnected from their Japanese
roots at this point. And are almost universally despised by fans of
the animated version.
> Maybe they'll prove me wrong, or maybe manga-style Superman will
> kick a lot of ass, but I'll believe it when I see it...
On the other hand, maybe he'll be as lame as manga Spider-Man, though
I doubt it. It would be hard to be as lame as manga Spider-Man with
Adam Warren drawing, unless of course this isn't the Adam Warren we
know and love but the evil Adam Warren of Earth-3.
Michael Welsh Duggan
Ackthp. My secret is out. You win this time, Jim Smith, but soon I and
the rest of the Young Pioneers will return from the Leon Trotsky
Institute Of World Domination, and then your ass is mine!
And yeah, I know this is the normal Supes. I still don't see how this
is supposed to make Superman more exciting than watching cream cheese
melt in the sun.
> I'm imagining Doomsday and Massacre with half a personality and
> soft, round breasts.
The thought of "Doomsdiana", Doomsday's long-lost sister, recently
returned from a hoiday in Greece, is now bouncing through my head.
Damn you to hell, Jim Smith, for inflicting this horrible torment for
me. Maybe two sweet soothing hours of Wrestlemania will help cleanse
my brain...
Ron
David Crowe wrote:
> Wizard #81 had a little news blurb announcing that Adam Warren will be
> doing a 2-issue Dirty Pair/Superman crossover late this year or early '99.
> The DP will travel back to the 20th century DCU.
>
> It will involve the real, classic Superman, since the illo shows Kei
> committing the cardinal sin of tugging on Superman's cape. :)
>
> I'm stoked, of course. Does anyone else have any thoughts?
>
Well, at least we'll find out what REALLY happened to Krypton...:)
(it's not OUR fauuuultt....;)
Geoff Tebbetts
In article <6fkkgh$j...@nntp02.primenet.com>, David Crowe
<jet...@primenet.com> wrote:
> Wizard #81 had a little news blurb announcing that Adam Warren will be
> doing a 2-issue Dirty Pair/Superman crossover late this year or early '99.
> The DP will travel back to the 20th century DCU.
>
> It will involve the real, classic Superman, since the illo shows Kei
> committing the cardinal sin of tugging on Superman's cape. :)
>
> I'm stoked, of course. Does anyone else have any thoughts?
It's official, waaaay official. Manga is definitely turning the heads of
American comics. Even though it's just the style, to see manga interacting
this was with DC and Marvel (the Spiderman and X-Men manga releases) is
refreshing. And to see Superman pictured in a way that isn't stiff? Makes
it even better.
--
Geoff Tebbetts
Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University
gteb...@vt.edu
Aaron Mojo
With all the Dark Horse stuff DC is doing lately (Superman/Madman and now
Superman/Dirty Pair), does anyone else think it's time someone -- I'm thinking
the Batman -- met up with the Flaming Carrot? FC's met the Ninja Turtles
(someone ELSE the Batman should meet!) and Herbie the Fat Fury... Why not the
Darknight Detective?
-Aaron!
(I mean a man in a giant flaming carrot suit is JUST as scary as a man dressed
as a big bat, if not MORE so...)
Raoul Duke
plaid lad! (plai...@mailcity.com) wrote:
: David Crowe wrote in message <6fkkgh$j...@nntp02.primenet.com>...
: [Adam Warren's "Dirty Pair/Superman" crossover...]
: >I'm stoked, of course. Does anyone else have any thoughts?
: not to sound like an ultrafan boy, but if it's true HELL YEAH! i really dug
: warren's "titans" project last year.
Oh, it's true. I've known about it since August, when he was nice enough to
spill the beans during an interview at Otakon '97. He's also doing a
Pair/Gen-13 series that sounds like brain-dead fun (unscrupulous
infomercial-makers travel back in time to plug their product by wreaking
havoc on the natives with it).
: i just wish that warren's version of the titan's would have been a
: continuing series...
He does too, and has actually pitched it, but it won't happen for a while, if
ever. He wouldn't be drawing it, though.
Joe
------
Big Brother's watching? Learn to become Invisible.
"Looking at my action figure, it occurred to me that that's not a bad way
to face the world: gorgeous, heavily-armed, and distinctively masked."
-- Amy Rambow, contemplating Cosmic Angela
How I waste my time: http://acs1.bu.edu:8001/~arie/rpg.html
Michael Welsh Duggan
gteb...@vt.edu (Geoff Tebbetts) writes:
> It's official, waaaay official. Manga is definitely turning the heads of
> American comics. Even though it's just the style, to see manga interacting
> this was with DC and Marvel (the Spiderman and X-Men manga releases) is
> refreshing.
I'd be more enthusiastic if I didn't know that in four years both
companies will revert to swiping Neal Adams instead of Masamune
Shirow. And I'm not sure a Warren DP book counts as "manga turning the
heads of American comics", since it's American to begin with.
> And to see Superman pictured in a way that isn't stiff? Makes
> it even better.
Please do not use the phrase "Superman" and "stiff" in the same
sentence. I've just finished watching Wrestlemania and have exceeded
my yearly quota of buffalo shots already.
David Crowe
Aaron Mojo <aaro...@aol.com> wrote:
: With all the Dark Horse stuff DC is doing lately (Superman/Madman and now
: Superman/Dirty Pair), does anyone else think it's time someone -- I'm thinking
: the Batman -- met up with the Flaming Carrot? FC's met the Ninja Turtles
: (someone ELSE the Batman should meet!) and Herbie the Fat Fury... Why not the
: Darknight Detective?
As an honest, hardworking mill-town hero, the Carrot probably doesn't want
to hang around with snotty big-shots like Batman. :)
Ranma Al'Thor
Michael Welsh Duggan (md...@andrew.cmu.edu) wrote:
: Jim Smith <jimna...@hotmail.com> writes:
:
: > I'll be giving the Dirty Pair a chance with this crossover, but I've
: > never understood why they and similar manga concepts aren't as hated as
: > American-style Bad Girls.
: Mostly because it's done in the name of comedy, and is essentially
: absurd. Why are they wearing silver bikinis? Because the infallible
: computer which runs everything says they should, and the computer is
: never wrong. Why are they still working if they're responsible for the
: deaths of millions? Again, the computer has exonerated them of all
Because in the original anime (the TV series) and the novels, they didn't
cause the death of millions. They're surrounded by bad luck, and a lot of
disaster, but not mass death to innocents.
As compared to Warren's rather distorted version.
: charges. Why are they mega-popular? No-one knows, and every
: god-fearing person wishes to hell they weren't. Let's face it, each
: time they get assigned to a new planet people leave it in droves,
: either deliberately or in coffins. It is deliberately pointed out that
: the main characters are indeed vacuous and stupid.
In Warren's version. They're fairly intelligent and competent in the
original source material, but Warren chose to turn them into total idiots
for comic effect.
: As for "similar concepts", I'd guess it's mostly because of a
: hard-core bunch of devotees who aren't critical in the least. The
: Dirty Pair, at least, are completely disconnected from their Japanese
: roots at this point. And are almost universally despised by fans of
: the animated version.
For good reason. Warren's version is a travesty of the original. The man
stinks. His 'Titans' story was a pointless attack on the entire concept
of superheroes which had already been done better by other people. <Rant,
Rant, Rant inserted here>
: On the other hand, maybe he'll be as lame as manga Spider-Man, though
: I doubt it. It would be hard to be as lame as manga Spider-Man with
: Adam Warren drawing, unless of course this isn't the Adam Warren we
: know and love but the evil Adam Warren of Earth-3.
I'd argue that our Earth is the one with the the Evil Adam Warren :)
--
John Walter Biles : MA-History, Ph.D Wannabe at U. Kansas
ra...@falcon.cc.ukans.edu
rh...@tass.org http://www.tass.org/~rhea/falcon.html
rh...@maison-otaku.net http://www.maison-otaku.net/~rhea/
"You're the only one I've met who can talk to us, although I've
heard stories of another one in the land full of big green plants
that two-legs use to light fires inside their heads."
--Scruffy Wolf, Parallel Lives 5
Raoul Duke
Ranma Al'Thor (ra...@falcon.cc.ukans.edu) wrote:
: In Warren's version. They're fairly intelligent and competent in the
: original source material, but Warren chose to turn them into total idiots
: for comic effect.
For rather amusing comic effect, I thought. You can't argue taste; I hate Jim
Carrey movies, but *someone* must think they're funny.
: For good reason. Warren's version is a travesty of the original. The man
: stinks. His 'Titans' story was a pointless attack on the entire concept
: of superheroes which had already been done better by other people. <Rant,
: Rant, Rant inserted here>
Actually, I'd like to hear it. Yes, it wasn't a Watchmen or V for Vendetta,
but I was amused and dug the art. I can easily see someone disliking it, but
c'mon, it wasn't actually evil.
: I'd argue that our Earth is the one with the the Evil Adam Warren :)
Just going by appearance, I'd say he was stolen as a child and raised by
bikers, but he's a nicer guy than, say, Robert DeJesus, if we're comparing
American manga-emulators. :)
Michael Welsh Duggan
ra...@falcon.cc.ukans.edu (Ranma Al'Thor) writes:
> In Warren's version. They're fairly intelligent and competent in the
> original source material, but Warren chose to turn them into total idiots
> for comic effect.
The Dirty Pair might be intelligent in the novels -- I can't argue
that, mostly because I don't read Japanese and have never actually
seen one of them. In the animated version, though, they don't come off
as particularly intelligent and are probably of average intelligence
at best. For what it's worth, Warren's DP aren't stupid either, just
bimbous. The animated Kei and Yuri are fairly bimbous as well,
considering that every third episode I've seen has had them mooning
over or rescued by some guy who we haven't seen before and who we
won't see again.
> For good reason. Warren's version is a travesty of the original.
I't pointless to argue what is in essence a matter of personal taste,
but I do have to raise a point that's been troubling me.
I don't see many people running around going "Did you see that James
Bond movie? It was nothing like the book! Hugo Drax wasn't a horribly
scarred Nazi infiltrator and they changed the setting to outer space!
God, if they're going to change the story like that I don't see why
they have to call it James Bond! Ian Fleming must be turning over in
his grave!" It's just a matter of principle that something's got to
change when a property is adapted. I don't expect a comic version of
something to be exactly like the animated version, and when attempts
are made to make them as close as humanly possible I'm usually
disappointed (consider the line of extremely bad animation comics Viz
distributed for a while, which basically consisted of cut-up animation
cels).
Now, having said that, Warren's adaptation is a bit extreme. While
there are still connections to the original source material, they are
in effect completely separate characters from the original Dirty Pair.
I can understand why fans of the animated version might be disappointed,
but at the same time the degree of their reaction has always seemed a
bit extreme -- after all, no-one is forcing them to buy stuff they
don't like or want.
Is it just the name that stands in the way of appreciating the story
on its own merits? Would you still object to Warren's characters if
they were "Team Tornado" or "Bobbsey Twins 2000" rather than the Dirty
Pair? And if that's all fans object to, why don't they seem to
dislike, DIRTY PAIR FLASH, which runs as roughshod over the original
pair as Warren does?
This is something that's been bothering me, not just about the Dirty
Pair but just in general. For starters, it starts to bug me every time
there's a new comic-related movie, and it's started to scare me when I
find myself reacting fannishly.
> The man stinks.
Having never met the man in person, I can neither confirm nor deny
this.
> His 'Titans' story was a pointless attack on the entire concept of
> superheroes which had already been done better by other people.
> <Rant, Rant, Rant inserted here>
As for the TITANS story, sorry you didn't like it. I thought it was a
enjoyable read, though in retrospect it is disappointlingly
inconsequential. But hey, not every painting is a masterpiece.
Actually, I'm curious as to what you think of Warren's art, as all
you've commented on this point is his writing.
Of course, now we've gone completely off-topic for this board.
Ranma Al'Thor
: > In Warren's version. They're fairly intelligent and competent in the
: > original source material, but Warren chose to turn them into total idiots
: > for comic effect.
: seen one of them. In the animated version, though, they don't come off
: as particularly intelligent and are probably of average intelligence
They're capable of fairly intelligent detective work. Not geniuses, but
they don't get the job done by sheer blind luck and shooting everything
that moves, either.
: > For good reason. Warren's version is a travesty of the original.
: I't pointless to argue what is in essence a matter of personal taste,
: but I do have to raise a point that's been troubling me.
I think I can argue that his version bears little resemblance to the
original without being a matter of personal taste. Now, liking
it...that's another question.
: I don't see many people running around going "Did you see that James
: Bond movie? It was nothing like the book! Hugo Drax wasn't a horribly
: scarred Nazi infiltrator and they changed the setting to outer space!
: God, if they're going to change the story like that I don't see why
: they have to call it James Bond! Ian Fleming must be turning over in
: his grave!" It's just a matter of principle that something's got to
They'd be right. The movies usually bear little resemblence to the books,
to the extent that there's any real connection. For that matter, the
Connery Bond lived in a universe with a rather different tone to it than
the Roger Moore Bond. But most people don't care. I don't care :) But
that doesn't mean someone couldn't complain it was a mistake.
: Now, having said that, Warren's adaptation is a bit extreme. While
: there are still connections to the original source material, they are
: in effect completely separate characters from the original Dirty Pair.
: I can understand why fans of the animated version might be disappointed,
: but at the same time the degree of their reaction has always seemed a
: bit extreme -- after all, no-one is forcing them to buy stuff they
: don't like or want.
As long as Warren is doing it, there's no way we'll get an American
version that doesn't suck. That's why. The same way that people complain
about say Byrne's take on Wonder Woman, or more specifically, how he has
used the Demon, to make this a little more on-topic.
I certainly won't buy Warren's stuff, but even if I don't buy it, its mere
existence guarantees there won't be an English version that I WOULD buy.
Ditto for any given comic book. I want good stories about the DP with
them recognizable as themselves.
: Is it just the name that stands in the way of appreciating the story
: on its own merits? Would you still object to Warren's characters if
: they were "Team Tornado" or "Bobbsey Twins 2000" rather than the Dirty
: Pair? And if that's all fans object to, why don't they seem to
No, because he wouldn't be pretending they were something they aren't;
namely the DP. And it would mean someone might produce a decent version
of the DP for an American audience.
: dislike, DIRTY PAIR FLASH, which runs as roughshod over the
original : pair as Warren does?
Actually, a lot of DP fans DO hate DP Flash. Now, I've never seen it, so
I have no opinion myself, but I know a fair # of DP fans who scream and
hide when it is mentioned.
: > The man stinks.
: Having never met the man in person, I can neither confirm nor deny
: this.
I didn't mean this in a physical sense :) I'm sure Adam Warren has
adequate hygiene.
: > His 'Titans' story was a pointless attack on the entire concept of
: > superheroes which had already been done better by other people.
: > <Rant, Rant, Rant inserted here>
: As for the TITANS story, sorry you didn't like it. I thought it was a
: enjoyable read, though in retrospect it is disappointlingly
: inconsequential. But hey, not every painting is a masterpiece.
The problem was that it didn't say anything that WATCHMEN didn't say
better. It was basically a 'superheroism is futile' story, and not worth
the use of paper. I found the world more interesting than the characters
or the plot, and it's rather hard to introduce characters so quickly then
slaughter them and make me care. If I want to be depressed, I'll go watch
the news.
: Actually, I'm curious as to what you think of Warren's art, as all
: you've commented on this point is his writing.
Warren's art is okay. I think he falls in the category of 'Artist with
delusions of writing skill' that a fair # of artist-writers fall into.
Being able to draw and being able to write a good story are two different
skills.
: Of course, now we've gone completely off-topic for this board.
You should see rec.arts.sf-written.robert-jordan. We spend most of the
time between books being completely off topic, since we thrash out
everything in the first six months, then spend the next year arguing about
Mormons, God, the Gulf War, the philosophy of science, and Mark Loy.
Michael Welsh Duggan
ra...@falcon.cc.ukans.edu (Ranma Al'Thor) writes:
> They'd be right. The movies usually bear little resemblence to the books,
> to the extent that there's any real connection. For that matter, the
> Connery Bond lived in a universe with a rather different tone to it than
> the Roger Moore Bond. But most people don't care. I don't care :) But
> that doesn't mean someone couldn't complain it was a mistake.
All right, you see my point then. My real question is, where does the
dividing line between "not caring" and "mistake" lie? Why are people
cool with the messed-up version of Moonraker (as an adaptation, rather
than quality) but not cool with a messed-up version of the Dirty Pair?
Is it the extent of departure? I can't imagine it is, because the
cinematic Moonraker is just as removed from the Fleming book as
Warren's Dirty Pair is removed from the TV show, if not more.
Is it just the size of the fan base? That's probably not it, either,
since James Bond has a much larger world-wide readership than the
Dirty Pair could ever hope for. There are more rabid James Bond fans
than Lovely Angels fans, but you rarely hear them complain.
As far as I can tell, it's just the average rabidness of the fan base.
Or is it just something else that I've missed? Or am I just being anal
in expecting that people have consistent points of view?
> As long as Warren is doing it, there's no way we'll get an American
> version that doesn't suck. That's why. The same way that people complain
> about say Byrne's take on Wonder Woman, or more specifically, how he has
> used the Demon, to make this a little more on-topic.
Having not read either of those, I can't really comment. But it's only
very rarely that I've encountered a comic that seems to be totally
without merit, which seems to be more or less how you've described
Warren's Dirty Pair.
I may be less than enthusiastic about, say, William Messner-Loeb's
version of Impulse, but I cannot in any critical capacity say that it
"sucks". Indeed, the only way I can really think of things as sucking
is when I'm not thinking critically. When I do say that something
sucks, it's always an indication that I'm not going on anything but a
gut reaction, which I consider to be a Bad Thing.
In any case, I can say that something sucks 'till the cows come home,
but that doesn't mean it's true because sucking is a purely subjective
experience. People seemed to like Val Kilmer in BATMAN FOREVER, though
I thought he phoned in his performance. That doesn't mean that little
kid who sat through the film with his parents can't enjoy it.
Now, when my friends ask me what I thought of BATMAN FOREVER, I can
tell them it wasn't very good. But there's no objective sense for
stating this, it's all an opinion. Rabid fans seem to hold their breath
until they turn blue on the assumption that their opinions are the
gospel truth -- "if I hate it, it must be bad and shouldn't be
inflicted on an unsuspecting world" -- and it's this sort of attitude
that gives things a bad name.
> No, because he wouldn't be pretending they were something they aren't;
> namely the DP. And it would mean someone might produce a decent version
> of the DP for an American audience.
So then your objection does boil down entirely to the name then.
You're saying you'd have no problems at all with the stories, none at
all, as long as the Dirty Pair name was removed and it was marketed as
"the fantabulous furtive adventures of Terri & Sherri."
Would you say the same thing about, say, Tony Takezaki's AD POLICE?
Would it be better if it had a different name? After all, the tone is
totally different from BUBBLEGUM CRISIS. Does that make it somehow
worse, just because it's different?
As for the second part of your statement, what does make a "decent
Dirty Pair for an American audience?"
Certainly the American audience seems to like the one we have now --
at least in quantities enough to support a color comic book and to
have new material produced about them. They also seem to like Adam
Warren and his work quite a bit, at least enough to keep him churning
out work for Dark Horse and several other publishers. Heck, even the
original Japanese creator is on record as loving Warren's version.
Last I checked, the original Japanese version (and DP FLASH, for that
matter) were sellling sluggishly on video and Viz had canned their
entire animation-cel comics line. Most of the Dirty Pair I've seen
over the years was either fan-subtitled and failed to elicit much of a
reaction from an audience, which tended.
Are you proposing that a version closer to the original Japanese one
would be better? Because sales and general interest don't seem to
support that at all. And other than sales, we have no real way to
gauge what an audience would like.
On the other hand, sales are not necessarily an indication of quality.
Indeed, there's no way to argue which version of the Dirty Pair is
better without bringing purely subjective opinions into the argument.
And when all the arguments are subjective, it becomes pointless to
argue. So again, it all comes back down to a matter of taste.
>> RE: TITANS: SCISSORS PAPER STONE
> The problem was that it didn't say anything that WATCHMEN didn't say
> better. It was basically a 'superheroism is futile' story, and not worth
> the use of paper. I found the world more interesting than the characters
> or the plot, and it's rather hard to introduce characters so quickly then
> slaughter them and make me care. If I want to be depressed, I'll go
> watch the news.
Er, only one character of import actually died. And there were only
four real characters to begin with.
In any case, the characters and plot were secondary to SCISSORS PAPER
STONE. Like WATCHMEN, it took a stab at "realistic" heroes, but the
wole point of the book was that doing superheroes in such a manner
really sucks the fun out of them. It's point is not that heroism is
futile (after all, the heroes do save the day).
WATCHMEN, on the other hand, was primarily a character study combined
with a view of how heroes might act in a world that actually does make
allowances for their existence. There's not much comparison.
Scott Hamilton
I just want to see the sequels to Superman/Dirty Pair.
They'll be called Dirty Pair Spits into the Wind, and Dirty Pair Messes
with a Man Named Jim.
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