Stan Lee to do DC characters

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Tom Galloway

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Apr 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/12/00
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[crossposted to rac.misc due to Stan Lee as creator, followups directed to
rac.dc.universe]

Yeesh. Miller returns to Daredevil and Dark Knight Returns. Ellison does
a Batman story. Stan Lee and John Buscema doing Superman. Where was all
this stuff back on April 1st?

According to a story in USA Today at http://www.usatoday.com/life/lds027.htm
Stan Lee will be writing a 12 issue story line for DC using multiple DCU
characters, along with multiple artists. Said artists will include
Jim Lee, Dave Gibbons, Joe Kubert and Bruce Timm with Adam Hughes doing
all the covers.

Starting out with "Just Imagine Stan Lee With John Buscema Creating
Superman" [OK, so I think the titles need some serious work...] late
this year, the issues will be "bound, slick-paper" (no price announced)
and are said to be a "complete rethinking of the entire DC Comics
mythology", with characters including Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash,
Green Lantern, the JLA, and Sandman (yes, Sandman. No other details on
that one). Jim Lee will be drawing Wonder Woman and Dave Gibbons will
do the Green Lantern issue.

OK, all in favor of having Julie Schwartz take over Spider-Man...:-)

tyg t...@netcom.com

GrapeApe

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Apr 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/12/00
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>OK, all in favor of having Julie Schwartz take over Spider-Man...:-)

I'll take some mort weisinger x-men over this way.

Eric Gimlin

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Apr 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/12/00
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Tom Galloway wrote:

> Yeesh. Miller returns to Daredevil and Dark Knight Returns. Ellison does
> a Batman story. Stan Lee and John Buscema doing Superman. Where was all
> this stuff back on April 1st?

It's official. Hell has frozen over. People have been discussing how
Miller back on Batman is not a cure for the industry. This might just
be. People know the name Stan Lee like no other creator, and the story
broke on USA TODAY, for crying out loud, instead of the comic web pages
and mags. Not just that they picked it up, but the report started
there. This will get a lot of attention, the question is will the
industry be able to do anything with it. (And yes, I'll be one of the
thousands fighting to be first in line for the book.)

Eric Gimlin

Rob Merritt

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Apr 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/12/00
to
On Wed, 12 Apr 2000 01:13:32 -0700, Eric Gimlin <etgi...@nwlink.com>
wrote:

>It's official. Hell has frozen over. People have been discussing how
>Miller back on Batman is not a cure for the industry. This might just
>be. People know the name Stan Lee like no other creator, and the story
>broke on USA TODAY, for crying out loud, instead of the comic web pages
>and mags. Not just that they picked it up, but the report started
>there. This will get a lot of attention, the question is will the
>industry be able to do anything with it. (And yes, I'll be one of the
>thousands fighting to be first in line for the book.)


My Dad who hasn't bought a comic in 27 years would buy this. Even if
the industry croaks and dies, this will be huge.
Rob Merritt
aka Baron Calamity
------
Gaming, My family, Micronauts, Lego, and all about me me me me at:
http://rcmerritt.homestead.com

Pat ONeill

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Apr 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/12/00
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>From: Eric Gimlin etgi...@nwlink.com

>Miller back on Batman is not a cure for the industry. This might just
>be. People know the name Stan Lee like no other creator, and the story
>broke on USA TODAY, for crying out loud, instead of the comic web pages
>and mags.

It "broke" on Rick Veitch's "Splash" web page a week ago.

And it's not a cure for the industry, either. This is precisely the kind of
project only long-time fans give a damn about.


Best, Pat

MBRADY669

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Apr 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/12/00
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>It "broke" on Rick Veitch's "Splash" web page a week ago.

and it broke before than on iFuse.

Jay Rudin

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Apr 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/12/00
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Pat ONeill wrote:

> It "broke" on Rick Veitch's "Splash" web page a week ago.

> And it's not a cure for the industry, either. This is precisely the

> kind of project only long-time fans give a damn about.

Enough people are expected to care about it that Stan Lee's picture was
shown on the *front page* of USA Today. (The article itself was on page
1 of the Life section.

Jay Rudin

Edward Mathews

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Apr 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/12/00
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In rec.arts.comics.dc.universe Tom Galloway <t...@netcom.com> wrote:
: [crossposted to rac.misc due to Stan Lee as creator, followups directed to
: rac.dc.universe]
: According to a story in USA Today at http://www.usatoday.com/life/lds027.htm

: Stan Lee will be writing a 12 issue story line for DC using multiple DCU
: characters, along with multiple artists. Said artists will include
: Jim Lee, Dave Gibbons, Joe Kubert and Bruce Timm with Adam Hughes doing
: all the covers.

Who greenlighted this mess? *sigh* And it will get media attention. And,
to paraphrase David Stepp, it will suck. And before you say another
thing: Backstreet Boys.

Ed (*shudder*) Mathews
*****Co-chair of QGSAS at NYU
**-----
* ---
-
-------------------------------------------------------------------
http://pages.nyu.edu/~em11/

"Let us endeavor so to live that when we come to die even the
undertaker will be sorry." -Mark Twain

Edward Mathews

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Apr 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/12/00
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Pat ONeill <patdo...@aol.comnospam> wrote:
:>From: Eric Gimlin etgi...@nwlink.com

:>Miller back on Batman is not a cure for the industry. This might just


:>be. People know the name Stan Lee like no other creator, and the story
:>broke on USA TODAY, for crying out loud, instead of the comic web pages
:>and mags.

: It "broke" on Rick Veitch's "Splash" web page a week ago.

: And it's not a cure for the industry, either. This is precisely the kind of
: project only long-time fans give a damn about.

Stop it, Pat. You're making sense.

Ed (time is an asterisk) Mathews

Michael Deeley

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Apr 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/12/00
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OK. THis will be fun. It will be "neat" to see STan Lee's take on DC
characters. But it is still a 77-year old man rewriting characters up
to 60 years old. It's a big media push. IT's a sales event. It might
even get some people into a comic book shop for the first time in their
lives.

And what will they find there? The sme old super-hero stuff they
outgrew as kids.

If anyone has a chance to make the most of this, it's the shops. Here
is a hstily conceived and vague plan as to how:

1. Prominently advertise this mini-series, with the shop's name
attached in as many places as possible. Local newspapers, supermarket
bulletin boards, lampposts, whatever. IN fact, it wouldn't kill DC to
provide such ads, and help buy space in lcoal newspapers. After all,
it's their product too.

2. Location of the comic. PUt it in a prominent place on the shelves,
but NEXT TO other great books. Planetary, Avengers, Astro CIty, the
best the industry has to offer.

3. Prominently display Black and white and independent comics near the
shelves, or on the sales counter. Include back issues and TPB's.
Mention them to older readers who come in.

4. FOr GOd's sake, if a girl comes in, don't let her leave without
Castle Waiting or Sandman! We've GOT to get some estrogen in here!

5. Mention the shop's subscription services and discounts for regular
customers, if it has any. Maybe throw in a copy of DIamond COmics
Preveis order form.


IN short, when people come in for this book, show them everything comics
has to offer. SHow the stuff that's smart and fun for kids, the books
written by and for adults, and try to break the "boys only" myth.

OH, and hide the sexy women action figures.
And the pornographic manga.

We'll let them find out about that on their own!

Sidne G. Ward

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Apr 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/12/00
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Michael Deeley <dee...@purdue.edu> writes:

>OK. THis will be fun. It will be "neat" to see STan Lee's take on DC
>characters. But it is still a 77-year old man rewriting characters up
>to 60 years old. It's a big media push. IT's a sales event. It might
>even get some people into a comic book shop for the first time in their
>lives.

Here's one big problem with the current media push, the books won't be
available for sale for months. I bet shops get calls today asking about
the issues. The general public is going to forget all about this by the
time the issues are actually published.

>And what will they find there? The sme old super-hero stuff they
>outgrew as kids.

>If anyone has a chance to make the most of this, it's the shops. Here
>is a hstily conceived and vague plan as to how:

A lot of people probably won't even go to a comic shop to look for the
books. If the books aren't available on the newsstand (as poor as the
distribution is there), DC's making a mistake. People will look at the
grocery store, the newsstand, the bookstore, and other places they go
anyway. Most of them won't even think there are such things as comic book
stores.

>1. Prominently advertise this mini-series, with the shop's name
>attached in as many places as possible. Local newspapers, supermarket
>bulletin boards, lampposts, whatever. IN fact, it wouldn't kill DC to
>provide such ads, and help buy space in lcoal newspapers. After all,
>it's their product too.

This is actually a good idea. I hope DC does provide some co-op money for
ads when the books are published.

>4. FOr GOd's sake, if a girl comes in, don't let her leave without
>Castle Waiting or Sandman! We've GOT to get some estrogen in here!

I personally hate this, BTW. I can't tell you how many times I've been
directed to the Sandman (or Archie) box just because I'm a woman.

Sidne Gail Ward
sw...@primenet.com
Join fellow LSH and other comic fans in Las Vegas July 6-9!
See http://www.primenet.com/~sward/saturngirl/lsh/lsg4.htm for details.

David W. Stepp

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Apr 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/12/00
to
In article <yC%I4.10$nB5...@typhoon.nyu.edu>, Edward Mathews
<em...@is3.nyu.edu> wrote:

> : And it's not a cure for the industry, either. This is precisely the kind of
> : project only long-time fans give a damn about.
>
> Stop it, Pat. You're making sense.

Don't be ridiculous.

1) I doubt many long-time fans particularly give a shit about Stan Lee.
I know I don't.

2) I don't think anyone has any expectation that this is anything other
than a stunt to draw some attention of Marvel geekoids to DC. Stan Lee has
not written anything signiciant in 20 years or more. I don't think anyone
has any illusions about what the quality of this is going to be.

3) If this has any impact at all, it will almost certainly be outside
the traditional market. I have a hard time believing that Stan will update
himself on modern continuity and will just write a bunch of stories/issue
about his take on the characters with no reference to the larger shared
universe at all. I wouldn't be surpised if it even got it's own "imprint".
Last I checked, this is what Pattycakes has been clamoring for all along.
Of course, he thinks of himself as a long-time fan.

D.

Pat ONeill

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Apr 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/12/00
to
>From: Jay Rudin jru...@americasm01.nt.com

>Enough people are expected to care about it that Stan Lee's picture was
>shown on the *front page* of USA Today. (The article itself was on page
>1 of the Life section.
>

Curiousity item; a nostalgia charge for baby-boomers.


Best, Pat

Eric Gimlin

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Apr 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/12/00
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Pat ONeill wrote:
> >From: Eric Gimlin etgi...@nwlink.com

> >Miller back on Batman is not a cure for the industry. This might just
> >be. People know the name Stan Lee like no other creator, and the story
> >broke on USA TODAY, for crying out loud, instead of the comic web pages
> >and mags.

> It "broke" on Rick Veitch's "Splash" web page a week ago.

Ah. It missed Daily Buzz, Comic Book Resources, or any mention on
RAC.DCU or RAC.MISC- and most good rumors make it to RAC pretty quickly.
How much info, other than repeating the fairly long-standing theory that
it could and probably would happen now that Stan was non-exclusive at
Marvel, did Splash have?

> And it's not a cure for the industry, either.

Despite my earlier comment, I agree with you on this one- I was just
suggesting it was more likely to get more people into the stores than
DARK KNIGHT II, and had a higher profile, as shown by the early report
in USA TODAY.

> This is precisely the kind of
> project only long-time fans give a damn about.

I would agree with you in a very qualified sense on this one- I think
the major appeal is to long-term fans, but that it (may) include the
fans that haven't bought comics in years.

And, as always, in real life we'll just have to wait and see.

Eric Gimlin

Jeff Harris

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Apr 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/12/00
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Why prejudge this idea? Why not read the books first, and then decide if
they suck or if they're great?

JPH

--
Edward Mathews <em...@is3.nyu.edu> wrote in message
news:dz%I4.9$nB5...@typhoon.nyu.edu...

> Who greenlighted this mess? *sigh* And it will get media attention. And,
> to paraphrase David Stepp, it will suck. And before you say another
> thing: Backstreet Boys.
>

> Ed (*shudder*) Mathews

David W. Stepp

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Apr 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/12/00
to
In article <8d2p9j$ro4$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>, "Jeff Harris"
<jeffrey...@mindspring.com> wrote:

> Why prejudge this idea? Why not read the books first, and then decide if
> they suck or if they're great?

To save money?

D.

Ralf Haring

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Apr 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/12/00
to

Yes, I'd hate to actually pick up a book and be entertained.

-Ralf Haring
"The mind must be the harder, the heart the keener,
the spirit the greater, as our strength grows less."
-Byrhtwold, The Battle of Maldon

Edward Mathews

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Apr 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/12/00
to
Jeff Harris <jeffrey...@mindspring.com> wrote:
: Why prejudge this idea? Why not read the books first, and then decide if
: they suck or if they're great?

: JPH

Because decent new talent and ideas are being ignored. Because new ideas
are being shot down on a daily basis because TPTB keep recycling age old
crap that doesn't work in this era. Superheroes work in mainstream
media... they just look like Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Given the few
things I've seen from Stan Lee on his web site, I have no illusions that
his take on Superman will be anything short of crap, true believer.

Ed (going to go read Finder again) Mathews

David W. Stepp

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Apr 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/12/00
to
In article <38F4EF3F...@duke.edu>, Ralf Haring <ra...@duke.edu> wrote:

> "David W. Stepp" wrote:
> >
> > In article <8d2p9j$ro4$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>, "Jeff Harris"


> > <jeffrey...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Why prejudge this idea? Why not read the books first, and then decide if
> > > they suck or if they're great?
> >

> > To save money?
>
> Yes, I'd hate to actually pick up a book and be entertained.

How would you like to pick it up and find out it sucks? How much would
you pay to be not entertained? How much would you pay to be outright
insulted? I promise to give you a discount for RAC*. participation.

I know there are people in the world that such blind morons they will
give DC money for anything but I think DC would do a lot better in the
world if they tried to actually market to everyone else.

And lest you start snivelling, I am not dismissing the idea out of hand
but I have seen enough of Stan Lee's more recent projects to make me read
reviews and wait for the TPB.

D.

Edward Mathews

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Apr 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/12/00
to
David W. Stepp <dst...@nospampost.its.mcw.edu> wrote:
: In article <yC%I4.10$nB5...@typhoon.nyu.edu>, Edward Mathews
: <em...@is3.nyu.edu> wrote:

:> : And it's not a cure for the industry, either. This is precisely the kind of


:> : project only long-time fans give a damn about.

:>
:> Stop it, Pat. You're making sense.

: Don't be ridiculous.

: 1) I doubt many long-time fans particularly give a shit about Stan Lee.
: I know I don't.

Define long-time fans. Current die-hards, or the millions who were buying
them in Marvel's heyday?

: 2) I don't think anyone has any expectation that this is anything other


: than a stunt to draw some attention of Marvel geekoids to DC. Stan Lee has
: not written anything signiciant in 20 years or more. I don't think anyone
: has any illusions about what the quality of this is going to be.

One would hope. Mainstream media is good at making comic "events" more
than what they are. Superman is dead. Long live Superman.

: 3) If this has any impact at all, it will almost certainly be outside
: the traditional market. I have a hard time believing that Stan will update


: himself on modern continuity and will just write a bunch of stories/issue
: about his take on the characters with no reference to the larger shared
: universe at all. I wouldn't be surpised if it even got it's own "imprint".
: Last I checked, this is what Pattycakes has been clamoring for all along.
: Of course, he thinks of himself as a long-time fan.

It's Dan Jurgens' Tanget if Stan Lee wrote it. Who knew?

Ed (that sure lit up the industry!) Mathews

Jay Rudin

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Apr 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/12/00
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"David W. Stepp" wrote:

> How much would you pay to be outright insulted? I promise to give you
> a discount for RAC*. participation.

Discount? This is RACDU -- I can have insult for free.

Jay Rudin

R. Tang

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Apr 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/12/00
to
In article <dstepp-1204...@net-8-155.dhcp.mcw.edu>,

David W. Stepp <dst...@NOSPAMpost.its.mcw.edu> wrote:
>In article <8d2p9j$ro4$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>, "Jeff Harris"
><jeffrey...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>> Why prejudge this idea? Why not read the books first, and then decide if
>> they suck or if they're great?
>
> To save money?

Not very efficient; I read 'em in the store then decide.

If I prejudge 'em, I warp my critical faculties.

>
> D.


--
-Roger Tang, gwan...@u.washington.edu, Artistic Director PC Theatre
- Editor, Asian American Theatre Revue [NEW URL]
- http://www.abcflash.com/a&e/r_tang/AATR.html
-Declared 4-F in the War Between the Sexes

Michael Payton

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Apr 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/12/00
to
In article <38F4302C...@nwlink.com>, Eric Gimlin
<etgi...@nwlink.com> wrote:

> Tom Galloway wrote:
>
> > Yeesh. Miller returns to Daredevil and Dark Knight Returns. Ellison does
> > a Batman story. Stan Lee and John Buscema doing Superman. Where was all
> > this stuff back on April 1st?
>

> It's official. Hell has frozen over. People have been discussing how

> Miller back on Batman is not a cure for the industry. This might just
> be. People know the name Stan Lee like no other creator, and the story
> broke on USA TODAY, for crying out loud, instead of the comic web pages

> and mags. Not just that they picked it up, but the report started
> there. This will get a lot of attention, the question is will the
> industry be able to do anything with it. (And yes, I'll be one of the
> thousands fighting to be first in line for the book.)
>


Hey! No ditching in line!! :-)

--
Those who shall lay eyes on a Gundam, shall not live to tell it.
Mobile Suit Gundam Wing
5:30pm & Midnight (Uncut) EST
Toonami

Michael Payton

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Apr 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/12/00
to
In article <20000412065320...@ng-bj1.aol.com>,
patdo...@aol.comnospam (Pat ONeill) wrote:

> >From: Eric Gimlin etgi...@nwlink.com
>

> >Miller back on Batman is not a cure for the industry. This might just
> >be. People know the name Stan Lee like no other creator, and the story
> >broke on USA TODAY, for crying out loud, instead of the comic web pages
> >and mags.
>

> It "broke" on Rick Veitch's "Splash" web page a week ago.
>

> And it's not a cure for the industry, either. This is precisely the kind of
> project only long-time fans give a damn about.
>
>


And the wet blanket of the day award goes to....

... nah. Sometimes, it's just too easy. ;-)

Michael Payton

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Apr 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/12/00
to
In article <dstepp-1204...@net-8-155.dhcp.mcw.edu>,

dst...@NOSPAMpost.its.mcw.edu (David W. Stepp) wrote:

> In article <yC%I4.10$nB5...@typhoon.nyu.edu>, Edward Mathews
> <em...@is3.nyu.edu> wrote:
>

> > : And it's not a cure for the industry, either. This is precisely the


kind of
> > : project only long-time fans give a damn about.
> >

> > Stop it, Pat. You're making sense.
>
> Don't be ridiculous.
>
> 1) I doubt many long-time fans particularly give a shit about Stan Lee.
> I know I don't.
>

> 2) I don't think anyone has any expectation that this is anything other
> than a stunt to draw some attention of Marvel geekoids to DC. Stan Lee has
> not written anything signiciant in 20 years or more. I don't think anyone
> has any illusions about what the quality of this is going to be.
>

> 3) If this has any impact at all, it will almost certainly be outside
> the traditional market. I have a hard time believing that Stan will update
> himself on modern continuity and will just write a bunch of stories/issue
> about his take on the characters with no reference to the larger shared
> universe at all. I wouldn't be surpised if it even got it's own "imprint".
> Last I checked, this is what Pattycakes has been clamoring for all along.
> Of course, he thinks of himself as a long-time fan.
>

> D.

meee-oww. Consider decaf man. seriously.

Michael Payton

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Apr 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/12/00
to
> David W. Stepp <dst...@nospampost.its.mcw.edu> wrote:
> : In article <yC%I4.10$nB5...@typhoon.nyu.edu>, Edward Mathews
> : <em...@is3.nyu.edu> wrote:
>
> :> : And it's not a cure for the industry, either. This is precisely the
kind of
> :> : project only long-time fans give a damn about.
> :>
> :> Stop it, Pat. You're making sense.
>
> : Don't be ridiculous.
>
> : 1) I doubt many long-time fans particularly give a shit about Stan Lee.
> : I know I don't.
>

More for me then. :-)

>
> : 2) I don't think anyone has any expectation that this is anything other


> : than a stunt to draw some attention of Marvel geekoids to DC. Stan Lee has
> : not written anything signiciant in 20 years or more. I don't think anyone
> : has any illusions about what the quality of this is going to be.

If I'm expecting Watchmen, then yeah, I might be disappointed. But I'm
expecting a really fun read without having to buy 27 other comics that
month to understand what's going on, then I suspect Stan won't let me
down.

Ralf Haring

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Apr 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/12/00
to
"David W. Stepp" wrote:
>
> How would you like to pick it up and find out it sucks?

I would love very much to pick up a book before deciding if I should
actually buy it or not. That's why I look at the product in the store
and *then* either put it back on the shelf or take it with me to the
counter.

> And lest you start snivelling, I am not dismissing the idea out of hand
> but I have seen enough of Stan Lee's more recent projects to make me read
> reviews and wait for the TPB.

Ah. So why answer this question "Why prejudge this idea? Why not read
the books first, and then decide if they suck or if they're great?" with
this "To save money?" Seems like you're dismissing the idea out of hand
to me.

Mikel Midnight

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Apr 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/12/00
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In article <20000412030325...@ng-ft1.aol.com>, GrapeApe
<grap...@aol.comjunk> wrote:

> >OK, all in favor of having Julie Schwartz take over Spider-Man...:-)
>
> I'll take some mort weisinger x-men over this way.

Is Weisinger even still alive?

I do vote, however, that when the current maestro of the X-titles loses
interest, they hand them all over to Bob Haney.

--
_______________________________________________________________________________
"She always had a terrific sense of humor" Mikel Midnight
(Valerie Solonas, as described by her mother)
blak...@best.com
______________________________________http://www.best.com/~blaklion/comics.html

morgan thomas

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Apr 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/12/00
to

Tom Galloway <t...@netcom.com> wrote in message
news:8d11ha$507$1...@slb0.atl.mindspring.net...

> [crossposted to rac.misc due to Stan Lee as creator, followups directed to
> rac.dc.universe]
>
> Yeesh. Miller returns to Daredevil and Dark Knight Returns. Ellison does
> a Batman story. Stan Lee and John Buscema doing Superman. Where was all
> this stuff back on April 1st?
>
> According to a story in USA Today at
http://www.usatoday.com/life/lds027.htm
> Stan Lee will be writing a 12 issue story line for DC using multiple DCU
> characters, along with multiple artists. Said artists will include
> Jim Lee, Dave Gibbons, Joe Kubert and Bruce Timm with Adam Hughes doing
> all the covers.
>
> Starting out with "Just Imagine Stan Lee With John Buscema Creating
> Superman" [OK, so I think the titles need some serious work...] late
> this year, the issues will be "bound, slick-paper" (no price announced)
> and are said to be a "complete rethinking of the entire DC Comics
> mythology", with characters including Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash,
> Green Lantern, the JLA, and Sandman (yes, Sandman. No other details on
> that one).

Oh dear god. Visions of "Nothing can stop the sophomoric silioques of
Morpheus, the one, true, Sandman!" to a background of churning Kirby
machines have filled my troubled mind. If this is half as bad as I expect it
to be...

morgan thomas

unread,
Apr 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/12/00
to

Sidne G. Ward <sw...@primenet.com> wrote in message
news:8d2aok$2k5$1...@nnrp03.primenet.com...

So, what, you prefer the adolescant power fantasies that make up most of the
mainstream comics?

morgan thomas

unread,
Apr 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/12/00
to

Michael Deeley <dee...@purdue.edu> wrote in message
news:38F49F5E...@purdue.edu...

>
>
> OK. THis will be fun. It will be "neat" to see STan Lee's take on DC
> characters. But it is still a 77-year old man rewriting characters up
> to 60 years old. It's a big media push. IT's a sales event. It might
> even get some people into a comic book shop for the first time in their
> lives.
>
> And what will they find there? The sme old super-hero stuff they
> outgrew as kids.
>
> If anyone has a chance to make the most of this, it's the shops. Here
> is a hstily conceived and vague plan as to how:
>
> 1. Prominently advertise this mini-series, with the shop's name
> attached in as many places as possible. Local newspapers, supermarket
> bulletin boards, lampposts, whatever. IN fact, it wouldn't kill DC to
> provide such ads, and help buy space in lcoal newspapers. After all,
> it's their product too.
>
> 2. Location of the comic. PUt it in a prominent place on the shelves,
> but NEXT TO other great books. Planetary, Avengers, Astro CIty, the
> best the industry has to offer.

From Hell, the Invisibles, and other non superhero books would be a good
idea too. It would be nice to show the world the actual literature being
done in comics.

Todd Kogutt: Scavenger

unread,
Apr 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/13/00
to
on the Daily Show, John Stewart reported this, taken every chance to
make fun of comic fans and anyone who might care about this. What was
rather humerous about it was that the previous segment was him
interviewing a man who will be playing a character created by Stan Lee
this summer, Patrick Stewart


---SCAVENGER

Pat ONeill

unread,
Apr 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/13/00
to
>From: "Jeff Harris" jeffrey...@mindspring.com

>Why prejudge this idea? Why not read the books first, and then decide if
>they suck or if they're great?

I'm not prejudging the content itself; that's a separate issue from whether the
concept is sellable to the non-fan public.


Best, Pat

in_vale...@hotmail.com

unread,
Apr 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/13/00
to
In article <20000413065119...@ng-bh1.aol.com>,

Hmm, this doesn't seem to make sense. You are judging the concept, and
in the negative. But the mainstream non-fan media gave this Stan
Lee/DC project attention, as compared to say Wizard's Gatecrasher or
even DC redirection of the Batman titles. They did find it of interest.

Not quite the same as "sellable", I suppose. That's for some good PR
handling, to get the project back in that mainstream non-fan media when
it's actually on the stands. That'll be a surprise, if so. All the
publishers have been terrible at promoting their products. Real
businesses advertise. Ads in Previews catalog and their own comics are
preaching to the choir.

scott tilson.
--------------------
Recommended: LEGENDS OF THE DC UNIVERSE #28-29 by Steven Grant & Gil
Kane.
http://www.dccomics.com/directcurrents/comics/mar15/ldcu28.htm


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Elayne Riggs

unread,
Apr 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/13/00
to
Michael Payton <mpa...@netwalk.com> happened to mention:

> And the wet blanket of the day award goes to....

> ... nah. Sometimes, it's just too easy. ;-)

Oh, I don't know. Sometimes it seems like the majority of folks on the
rac* newsgroups are wet blankets when it comes to prejudging upcoming
comics projects... :)

- Elayne

Elayne Riggs

unread,
Apr 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/13/00
to
Pat ONeill <patdo...@aol.comnospam> happened to mention:

> I'm not prejudging the content itself; that's a separate issue from whether the
> concept is sellable to the non-fan public.

I agree. Nonetheless, I disagree with you about the saleability of just
about ANY Stan Lee-involved project. Sheesh, look what happened with that
Backstreet-Boys-as-superheroes thing; good luck finding any issues of
that, not even some of the creators who worked on it were able to get
copies! Stan Lee is still very media-savvy, still generates more
publicity for superhero comics than anyone else out there, particularly
among the "non-fan public," and frankly most of that non-fan public
couldn't tell you which superheroes are Marvel and which are DC anyway,
they're just gonna check it out because that Stan Lee guy is wacky. :)

- Elayne

Bill Roper

unread,
Apr 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/13/00
to
In article <38F4EF3F...@duke.edu>, Ralf Haring <ra...@duke.edu> wrote:
>"David W. Stepp" wrote:
>>
>> In article <8d2p9j$ro4$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>, "Jeff Harris"
>> <jeffrey...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Why prejudge this idea? Why not read the books first, and then decide if
>> > they suck or if they're great?
>>
>> To save money?
>
>Yes, I'd hate to actually pick up a book and be entertained.

I hate to pick up a book and be annoyed. That's why I don't buy Legion
Lost or Green Lantern.

If you think that you're not likely to enjoy a book based on what you know
about it, why spend money on it in order to be annoyed? If it turns out
that you're really missing something great, there's likely to be a TPB.
Failing that, there are back issues.

Based on what Stepp's seen of Stan Lee's recent writing, he expects the
books to be turkeys. He may be right.

I must admit, though, that I'm tempted to buy them...
--
Bill Roper, ro...@xnet.com

Drew Melbourne

unread,
Apr 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/13/00
to
Obviously, this won't be something to buy because it'll be astoundingly
good. It's a novelty to have Stan Lee revamp DC characters, and it might
be kind of fun. If you can't see why it's a cool idea, then it's probably
not for you.

I'm reminded of an article I read in THE VILLAGE VOICE the other day about
a guy who'd invented LPs that you can record visuals on. Completely
useless, yes. But undeniably cool, and something I'd buy if I had the
money for it.

--
NOTE TO SELF: Need to create a less self-referential .sig file.

niallmc

unread,
Apr 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/13/00
to
I'm just wondering why everyone's being so hostile towards the
idea.

People seem to assume that Stan's over the hill simply because
he's not thirty anymore. From all I've heard and seen of him in
the last few years, he's remarkably keyed into the industry, and
in my humble opinion, he's still got it.

As for Stan does Sandman? Bring it on! I'll read it if nobody
else does.

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!


Elayne Riggs

unread,
Apr 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/13/00
to
niallmc <nmccan99...@stumail.dkit.ie.invalid> happened to mention:

> I'm just wondering why everyone's being so hostile towards the
> idea.

New here, are you? :)

- Elayne

Bryan Harris

unread,
Apr 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/13/00
to
In article <14a0a6ef...@usw-ex0104-032.remarq.com>, niallmc

<nmccan99...@stumail.dkit.ie.invalid> wrote:
>I'm just wondering why everyone's being so hostile towards the
>idea.

Well, it's not exactly the freshest idea since putting blood
in the printing ink; it's essentially Tangent Comics with a
big name attached.

Also, I get the feeling that some people here perceive
and place great value in a subtle difference in basic
sensibility between DC's comics and Marvel's, and they
see this as a cheesy "Marvelization" of comics that didn't
need any Marvel influence.


>People seem to assume that Stan's over the hill simply because
>he's not thirty anymore. From all I've heard and seen of him in
>the last few years, he's remarkably keyed into the industry, and
>in my humble opinion, he's still got it.

Yeah, he's proven extraordinarily canny at producing a
marketable image, but people are thinking of other things.

Historical revisionism has minimized his role in the creation
of Marvel in favor of the artists he worked with, and years
spent serving as the public face for the beast that is Marvel
may have caused his skills to atrophy. I haven't heard
anything positive about the "Ravage 2099" series he
wrote several years ago.

>As for Stan does Sandman? Bring it on! I'll read it if nobody
>else does.

I'm interested too, mainly because it promises to be
damned odd. The preview art for the Superman project bore no
resemblance to any Superman I'm familiar with, and that
appeals to me. I'm tired of tepid little stories about
Kal-El becoming Superman regardless of whether his rocket
landed in the Gobi Desert or Amish Pennsylvania. Bizarre,
unpredictable interpretations of these basic concepts are
what the Elseworlds label _should_ be used for.

-Bryan Harris

eternally

unread,
Apr 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/13/00
to

Pat ONeill wrote:

> >From: Jay Rudin jru...@americasm01.nt.com
>
> >Enough people are expected to care about it that Stan Lee's picture was
> >shown on the *front page* of USA Today. (The article itself was on page
> >1 of the Life section.
> >
>
> Curiousity item; a nostalgia charge for baby-boomers.
>
> Best, Pat

or, alternatively, Pat is wrong. you decide.


-= e.

--

"...what is fiction, if not the investment of
some spark of reality...into the character?" - Peter David

eternally

unread,
Apr 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/13/00
to

Ralf Haring wrote:

> "David W. Stepp" wrote:
> >
> > How would you like to pick it up and find out it sucks?
>
> I would love very much to pick up a book before deciding if I should
> actually buy it or not. That's why I look at the product in the store
> and *then* either put it back on the shelf or take it with me to the
> counter.

so, are you one of those people who buys a book just based
on the art...? or are you one of those *really* annoying people
who stand in front of the New Releases rack at the comic
store and read the comic while other people are just trying to
get by to grab the issue and be on their way...?


-= e.

R. Tang

unread,
Apr 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/13/00
to
In article <38F62528...@hotmail.com>,

eternally <eternally*removethis*@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Pat ONeill wrote:
>
>> >From: Jay Rudin jru...@americasm01.nt.com
>>
>> >Enough people are expected to care about it that Stan Lee's picture was
>> >shown on the *front page* of USA Today. (The article itself was on page
>> >1 of the Life section.
>> >
>>
>> Curiousity item; a nostalgia charge for baby-boomers.
>>
>> Best, Pat
>
>or, alternatively, Pat is wrong. you decide.

Ummmm....you can certainly build a bank account by marketing to
the nostalgic tastes of baby boomers. And if you're good enough, you can
sustain it.


>"...what is fiction, if not the investment of
>some spark of reality...into the character?" - Peter David
>
>

eternally

unread,
Apr 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/13/00
to

morgan thomas wrote:

> Sidne G. Ward <sw...@primenet.com> wrote in message
> >

> > I personally hate this, BTW. I can't tell you how many times I've been
> > directed to the Sandman (or Archie) box just because I'm a woman.
>
> So, what, you prefer the adolescant power fantasies that make up most of the
> mainstream comics?

is the only choice either-or...?


-= e.

R. Tang

unread,
Apr 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/13/00
to
In article <38F62919...@hotmail.com>,

eternally <eternally*removethis*@hotmail.com> wrote:
>so, are you one of those people who buys a book just based
>on the art...? or are you one of those *really* annoying people
>who stand in front of the New Releases rack at the comic
>store and read the comic while other people are just trying to
>get by to grab the issue and be on their way...?

"Annoying" is my middle name....

Rob Merritt

unread,
Apr 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/13/00
to
On 13 Apr 2000 16:49:15 GMT, melb...@dept.english.upenn.edu (Drew
Melbourne) wrote:

>I'm reminded of an article I read in THE VILLAGE VOICE the other day about
>a guy who'd invented LPs that you can record visuals on. Completely
>useless, yes. But undeniably cool, and something I'd buy if I had the
>money for it.

Wasn't the RCA disk player back in the early 80's basically the same
thing.

Rob Merritt
aka Baron Calamity
------
Gaming, My family, Micronauts, Lego, and all about me me me me at:
http://rcmerritt.homestead.com

eternally

unread,
Apr 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/13/00
to

"R. Tang" wrote:

> In article <38F62528...@hotmail.com>,
> eternally <eternally*removethis*@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >Pat ONeill wrote:
> >
> >> >From: Jay Rudin jru...@americasm01.nt.com
> >>
> >> >Enough people are expected to care about it that Stan Lee's picture was
> >> >shown on the *front page* of USA Today. (The article itself was on page
> >> >1 of the Life section.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Curiousity item; a nostalgia charge for baby-boomers.
> >>
> >> Best, Pat
> >
> >or, alternatively, Pat is wrong. you decide.
>
> Ummmm....you can certainly build a bank account by marketing to
> the nostalgic tastes of baby boomers. And if you're good enough, you can
> sustain it.

to elaborate -- Pat's position seemed to be discounting the
mainstream media coverage, my post was contradicting him,
saying that it's possible Pat is wrong and it's not *only* a
nostalgia item for baby boomers.

i don't think anyone is arguing that it won't be that at all.


-= e.

Edward Mathews

unread,
Apr 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/13/00
to
niallmc <nmccan99...@stumail.dkit.ie.invalid> wrote:
: People seem to assume that Stan's over the hill simply because

: he's not thirty anymore. From all I've heard and seen of him in
: the last few years, he's remarkably keyed into the industry, and
: in my humble opinion, he's still got it.

I'm assuming no such thing. I'm looking at his web site media output.

Ed (ick) Mathews
*****Co-chair of QGSAS at NYU
**-----
* ---
-
-------------------------------------------------------------------
http://pages.nyu.edu/~em11/

"Let us endeavor so to live that when we come to die even the
undertaker will be sorry." -Mark Twain

Michael Payton

unread,
Apr 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/13/00
to
In article <8d4huv$rnd$1...@news.panix.com>, Elayne Riggs
<fire...@panix.com> wrote:


If Stan can generate this much publicity with this sort of thing, imagine
what he could do if he ever buys Marvel. "non-fan" folks might actually
start to find & enjoy comics again. :-)

Michael Payton

unread,
Apr 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/13/00
to
In article <8d4uks$2l6$1...@news.panix.com>, Elayne Riggs
<fire...@panix.com> wrote:

> niallmc <nmccan99...@stumail.dkit.ie.invalid> happened to mention:


> > I'm just wondering why everyone's being so hostile towards the
> > idea.
>

> New here, are you? :)
>
> - Elayne

This place could get pissy about a bright Summer day. :-)

Michael Payton

unread,
Apr 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/13/00
to
In article <11a0f480...@usw-ex0101-007.remarq.com>, Bryan Harris
<misterexcitem...@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:

> Historical revisionism has minimized his role in the creation
> of Marvel in favor of the artists he worked with, and years
> spent serving as the public face for the beast that is Marvel
> may have caused his skills to atrophy. I haven't heard
> anything positive about the "Ravage 2099" series he
> wrote several years ago.
>


Here's one for you then. I enjoyed it. It's not Watchmen, but then again
neither was his run on Spider-man. Not every comic needs to be socially
relevant or filled with angst to be good. Sometimes mindless action comics
with a bit of humor can be a heckuva lotta fun. Why do you think Ben Grimm
is the most popular character in the FF? :-)

Edward Mathews

unread,
Apr 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/13/00
to
Michael Payton <mpa...@netwalk.com> wrote:
: This place could get pissy about a bright Summer day. :-)

With no sunscreen? Are you mad? That's how people get skin cancer!

Ed (pissy) Mathews

Phil Sunde

unread,
Apr 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/13/00
to
On Thu, 13 Apr 2000 18:03:59 -0400, mpa...@netwalk.com (Michael
Payton) wrote:

>In article <8d4uks$2l6$1...@news.panix.com>, Elayne Riggs
><fire...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>> niallmc <nmccan99...@stumail.dkit.ie.invalid> happened to mention:
>> > I'm just wondering why everyone's being so hostile towards the
>> > idea.
>>
>> New here, are you? :)
>>
>> - Elayne
>

>This place could get pissy about a bright Summer day. :-)

You know, when >I< started reading comics, a bright summer day only
took >one< issue, none of these stupid crossovers.

Phil


Ralf Haring

unread,
Apr 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/13/00
to
eternally wrote:
>
> so, are you one of those people who buys a book just based
> on the art...? or are you one of those *really* annoying people
> who stand in front of the New Releases rack at the comic
> store and read the comic while other people are just trying to
> get by to grab the issue and be on their way...?

No, I don't just buy them for the art, although there a few artists for
whose work I would buy a comic because they have hardly ever
disappointed me with their endeavors. As for stanfing in front of the
New Releases rack and reading comics, no I don't do that. I get the
books on my pull list, go over to the racks and see if there's anything
else halfway interesting. I'll usually pick up a book or two, then step
back a bit and flip through them to decide whether or not to buy them.

-Ralf Haring
"The mind must be the harder, the heart the keener,
the spirit the greater, as our strength grows less."
-Byrhtwold, The Battle of Maldon

Duggy

unread,
Apr 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/14/00
to
In article <8d4huv$rnd$1...@news.panix.com>,

Elayne Riggs <fire...@panix.com> wrote:
> Stan Lee is still very media-savvy, still generates more
> publicity for superhero comics than anyone else out there,
> particularly
> among the "non-fan public," and frankly most of that non-fan public
> couldn't tell you which superheroes are Marvel and which are DC
> anyway,
> they're just gonna check it out because that Stan Lee guy is wacky. :)

That reminds me of last time Stan Lee visited Australia and the local
paper reused a photo of him with Batman and Spiderman cut-outs from the
Marvel vs DC event... with the caption "Stan Lee with two of the
characters he created"

---
- Dug.
---
I didn't do it,
Nobody saw me do it,
You can't prove anything.
---

Duggy

unread,
Apr 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/14/00
to
In article <mpayton-1304...@tcs4-22.wblt.netwalk.net>,
mpa...@netwalk.com (Michael Payton) wrote:

> This place could get pissy about a bright Summer day. :-)

Don't talk to me about bright Summer days, I live in the tropics, and
we hope for Cyclones just for the change of weather.

---
ObDCU: If you look at the weather in the DCU... (after the 12 year
rule has been applied) they must have really on seasons there... ;)

Kenmlin

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Apr 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/14/00
to
Do you think Bruce Wayne will be bitten by a radioactive bat? And his beloved
butler "Uncle" Ben is killed by a burgler?

Ken

Dan H.

unread,
Apr 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/14/00
to
According to the article I read in the San Francisco Chronicle, Lee's
Supermen won't even be from Krypton. It sounds like he's taking the
powers, and making Marvel-type characters out of them.

I'm not looking forward to this. :-(

--Dan

"There's a fine line between a Hobby and a mental illness." --Dave Barry


<<<If you are interested in earning MONEY, FREQUENT FLYER MILES, FREE
DSL SERVICE, or other rewards, just for the websurfing you do now,
e-mail me privately, and I'll give you some honest referrals to services
I am using. >>>


Elayne Riggs

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Apr 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/14/00
to
Michael Payton <mpa...@netwalk.com> happened to mention:

> If Stan can generate this much publicity with this sort of thing, imagine


> what he could do if he ever buys Marvel. "non-fan" folks might actually
> start to find & enjoy comics again. :-)

There's no question that Stan's still The Man with most non-comics readers
out there. Every time my parents (who evince no interest in the medium
despite the fact that it generates over half our household income)
actually initiate a conversation with me about comics, the first sentence
is inevitably "Did you hear about that thing with Stan Lee?" as if Robin
or I wouldn't have known about it. :) They just did that again last
night, so the word has gotten out about this to the general public in a
major way-- always the first step towards selling something.

- Elayne

Sidne G. Ward

unread,
Apr 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/14/00
to
Elayne Riggs <fire...@panix.com> writes:

>Michael Payton <mpa...@netwalk.com> happened to mention:

>> If Stan can generate this much publicity with this sort of thing, imagine
>> what he could do if he ever buys Marvel. "non-fan" folks might actually
>> start to find & enjoy comics again. :-)

>There's no question that Stan's still The Man with most non-comics readers
>out there.

I'd amend this to read "..with most former comics readers..". In my
experience, people who *never* read comics have no idea who Stan Lee is.

OTOH, lots of baby boomers did read comics back in the 1960s and remember
Stan Lee quite fondly. The number one question I am asked when colleagues
and other acquaintances find out I collect comics and regularly attend
comic conventions is "Have you ever met Stan Lee?"

I think some of *those* people may very well be interested in reading
these books. But I'm not sure they'll pick up anything else or become
regular readers again.

Sidne Gail Ward
sw...@primenet.com
Join fellow LSH and other comic book fans in Las Vegas July 6-9!
See: http://www.primenet.com/~sward/saturngirl/lsh/lsg4.htm for details.

Elayne Riggs

unread,
Apr 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/14/00
to
Sidne G. Ward <sw...@primenet.com> happened to mention:
> Elayne Riggs <fire...@panix.com> writes:

>>Michael Payton <mpa...@netwalk.com> happened to mention:

>>> If Stan can generate this much publicity with this sort of thing, imagine
>>> what he could do if he ever buys Marvel. "non-fan" folks might actually
>>> start to find & enjoy comics again. :-)

>>There's no question that Stan's still The Man with most non-comics readers
>>out there.

> I'd amend this to read "..with most former comics readers..". In my
> experience, people who *never* read comics have no idea who Stan Lee is.

Suffice it to say our experiences differ. My parents and most of my
immediate family have never read comics, and Stan Lee is about the only
name they recognize.

- Elayne

Dale Hicks

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Apr 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/14/00
to
Sidne G. Ward <sw...@primenet.com> wrote in article <8d7kpi$ktg$1...@nnrp02.primenet.com>...

> The number one question I am asked when colleagues
> and other acquaintances find out I collect comics and regularly attend
> comic conventions is "Have you ever met Stan Lee?"

So, ....?

--
Cranial Crusader dgh...@bellsouth.net

BHMarks

unread,
Apr 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/14/00