Funny but I dont think it was meant to be, Superboy prime
Joe
Will Superboy prime get killed in the next issue? Too funny. Had me
rolling on the floor laughing. A person looking for an issue of a
comic to see if he will get killed. A dead person telling him he will
surely get killed. Too funny.
Joe Sewell
Superboy...
Seriously, I hope they don't rip Conner's recuperating corpse from the
Arctic with a black ring to do that ... and I'd much prefer Prime going
away one way or the other.
grinningdemon
wrote:
I could do without either...I liked Conner well enough but his was one
of those deaths that should have stuck...and Prime was a great one
time villain but, with each additional appearance, he becomes less and
less special and threatening.
MWG
> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 21:03:56 -0500, Joe Sewell <ultra...@spamcop.net>
Conner and Bart never should've died to start with. In Conner's case,
it was a chicken-shit way to avoid dealing with all the revelations
laid out in Teen Titans, running away from the story instead of moving
forward. Bart was so derailed by Johns that his death might've been
needed to get him back to a nearly recognizable form, but still....
And Prime should rot, but sadly DiDio and Johns have to shove him down
our throats every chance they get.
grinningdemon
wrote:
I agree that Bart never should have died (though I don't think Johns
is the one who deserves the blame on that), but Conner's death in
Infinite Crisis seemed to work perfectly...and I genuinely enjoyed
seeing the aftermath play out in Teen Titans (it was one of the few
books that was actually worth reading when OYL kicked in...at least
until Johns jumped ship mid-story arc and the book pretty much
immediately went to hell and has stayed there ever since).
I'm with you completely on Prime though.
OM
wrote:
> In Conner's case,
>it was a chicken-shit way to avoid dealing with all the revelations
>laid out in Teen Titans, running away from the story instead of moving
>forward.
...Connor's death had AbZero to do with any deep plot holse the
character was dug into. His death was ordained by DC Legal as part of
the various legal games being played to deny the Siegel heirs any cash
that might have come from a court ruling in their favor insofar as to
whether or not Connor counted as the same Superboy that Jerry Siegel
had supposedly created and somehow still had some semblance of
ownership. This has been pretty much common knowledge ever since
Connor was offed in "Infinite Crisis", and while the Teen Titans have
been total shit since Young Justice was yanked away from PAD, Connor's
death can't be attributed to that book's pathetic track record.
OM
--
]=====================================[
] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [
] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [
] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [
]=====================================[
OM
<grinni...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>Conner's death in Infinite Crisis seemed to work perfectly...
...Considering how it was last-minute rewritten so that it was Connor
instead of Dick who got killed by tuning fork debris, I can't see how
anyone could claim that it worked "perfectly".
grinningdemon
wrote:
>On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 00:07:27 -0600, grinningdemon
><grinni...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>Conner's death in Infinite Crisis seemed to work perfectly...
>
>...Considering how it was last-minute rewritten so that it was Connor
>instead of Dick who got killed by tuning fork debris, I can't see how
>anyone could claim that it worked "perfectly".
>
> OM
Last minute rewrite or not, it worked well...it completed the
character arc that had been building in Teen Titans by allowing Conner
to die the hero's death and overcome his Luthor DNA...now that he's
back, they just seem to be repeating the same plotline...I just wish
they'd killed Dick off too...then maybe the batbooks wouldn't suck so
much right now.
grinningdemon
wrote:
>On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 20:35:43 -0800 (PST), MWG <mwg...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>> In Conner's case,
>>it was a chicken-shit way to avoid dealing with all the revelations
>>laid out in Teen Titans, running away from the story instead of moving
>>forward.
>
>...Connor's death had AbZero to do with any deep plot holse the
>character was dug into. His death was ordained by DC Legal as part of
>the various legal games being played to deny the Siegel heirs any cash
>that might have come from a court ruling in their favor insofar as to
>whether or not Connor counted as the same Superboy that Jerry Siegel
>had supposedly created and somehow still had some semblance of
>ownership. This has been pretty much common knowledge ever since
>Connor was offed in "Infinite Crisis", and while the Teen Titans have
>been total shit since Young Justice was yanked away from PAD, Connor's
>death can't be attributed to that book's pathetic track record.
Young Justice was going down hill well before the book ended...and
Geoff Johns' Teen Titans run was great...the best since the classic
Wolfman/Perez run.
MWG
> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 20:35:43 -0800 (PST), MWG <mwg...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > In Conner's case,
> >it was a chicken-shit way to avoid dealing with all the revelations
> >laid out in Teen Titans, running away from the story instead of moving
> >forward.
>
> ...Connor's death had AbZero to do with any deep plot holse the
> character was dug into. His death was ordained by DC Legal as part of
> the various legal games being played to deny the Siegel heirs any cash
> that might have come from a court ruling in their favor insofar as to
> whether or not Connor counted as the same Superboy that Jerry Siegel
> had supposedly created and somehow still had some semblance of
> ownership. This has been pretty much common knowledge ever since
> Connor was offed in "Infinite Crisis", and while the Teen Titans have
> been total shit since Young Justice was yanked away from PAD, Connor's
> death can't be attributed to that book's pathetic track record.
>
From what I recall, Conner wasn't even mentioned in the Siegel heirs
suit. Its questionable they even realized that version of Superboy
ever even existed, since the legal problems go back many years before
Kon-El was even conceived. And even if it actually was DC Legal's
call, DiDio and Johns have repeatedly said when questioned about it
that the lawsuit had no impact. Sure, they may be "towing the company
line" and not actually be allowed to talk about the legal problems,
but if they are going to maintain the other story they should be
called on it.
MWG
Maybe it worked for you, but to me it sucked. Conner had began
dealing with all this after breaking free of Luthor's mind control and
having to deal with his secret being exposed. How all the other
Titans would react to the truth about his parentage was one of the
main plot points in the book until then. The only one that condemned
him for it was Prime - not really a credible judge of character.
Sure, Conner moped about it for a bit and then (basically) got killed
by Prime, got a second shot and basically committed suicide. Not an
acceptable end for the character to me. To summarize, Conner was
killed just when the his story was just starting to develop, not at
the end of it. He should be a better hero who has learned from it and
is moving forward, not a corpse. Thankfully, he is finally back on
that path.
grinningdemon
Conner was moping over his Luthor DNA and what Lex had just made him
do...the Titans may have gotten over it but he hadn't and he redeemed
himself (in his own eyes) by sacrificing himself...and, now that he's
back, he's not moving forward at all...he's still wallowing over the
same thing and obssessed with his Luthor connection...he has pretty
much immediately picked up exactly where he was before (even with
Cassie, which seems like a mistake for her because it totally undoes
the indepenedent streak she had been developing).
Joe Sewell
worked great during Reign of the Supermen, but otherwise he was a
spoiled brat (not quite as bad as Prime, but I'll get to that). Since he
ditched the good-looking costumes for the T-shirt & jeans bit, his
personality became about as plain. Likeable, but not as noticable,
although his stint with whichever LSH it was worked. I'll grant that his
death should've "stuck," even though I didn't like the idea, but now
that he's back, let's not mess with history, please. No "OMG, they're
going after Conner's body before it's healed! How will that change
history?" deals, please; I don't think DC can handle it anymore.
As for Superboy-Prime (sorry to sully Optimus Prime's nickname up
there), his turn to the dark side was OK in Infinite Crisis, at least on
fourth reading, and the idea that he inspired the LSV was cute. The idea
that he can foresee his future by reading comics was also a cute
gesture. But enough with the brat. Bring him to justice already. He's an
out-of-control murderer probably on several Earths. He should be a
major-league threat, of the type that would result in a truly permanent
change, but that's not going to happen, and we both know it.
grinningdemon
wrote:
I never really liked Conner either until Geoff Johns' Teen Titans...I
thought he worked wonders with the character...but, at the same time,
his death in Infinite Crisis felt like a pretty natural conclusion for
the character as far as I'm concerned (even if it was a last minute
rewrite).
>As for Superboy-Prime (sorry to sully Optimus Prime's nickname up
>there), his turn to the dark side was OK in Infinite Crisis, at least on
>fourth reading, and the idea that he inspired the LSV was cute. The idea
>that he can foresee his future by reading comics was also a cute
>gesture. But enough with the brat. Bring him to justice already. He's an
>out-of-control murderer probably on several Earths. He should be a
>major-league threat, of the type that would result in a truly permanent
>change, but that's not going to happen, and we both know it.
He just needs to go.
OM
>From what I recall, Conner wasn't even mentioned in the Siegel heirs
>suit.
...I've been following this since just after the announcement of the
Superboy rights suit, and it specified "Superboy and any derivative
versions of the character". Apparently DC Legal now thinks Connor is
beyond the definition of a "derivative version" enough to where he
could be brought back with only a minimal risk of losing him to thei
siegels should they find an idiot for a judge.
So yeah, Connor was killed because DC Legal panicked, and that's all
there was to it.
Patrick
"grinningdemon" <grinni...@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:nbm9h5lpi792val4c...@4ax.com...
If Dick had been killed off, but the plans for the Batbooks remain the same
as they are now, we could have had Jason Todd as Batman instead of Dick
Grayson. I think the batbooks would have been worse if that happened.
Patrick
grinningdemon
Killing off Bruce was another last minute change that Didio came up
with, inspired by Morrison's "Batman RIP" title...and probably at
least a little because of the reaction to the possibility of killing
off Dick...if Dick had been killed off, Bruce most likely wouldn't
have been.
Joe
wrote:
>On Tue, 1 Dec 2009 07:20:54 -0800 (PST), MWG <mwg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>From what I recall, Conner wasn't even mentioned in the Siegel heirs
>>suit.
>
>...I've been following this since just after the announcement of the
>Superboy rights suit, and it specified "Superboy and any derivative
>versions of the character". Apparently DC Legal now thinks Connor is
>beyond the definition of a "derivative version" enough to where he
>could be brought back with only a minimal risk of losing him to thei
>siegels should they find an idiot for a judge.
>
>So yeah, Connor was killed because DC Legal panicked, and that's all
>there was to it.
>
>
> OM
Will that suit ever end?
Duggy
> On Tue, 1 Dec 2009 07:20:54 -0800 (PST), MWG <mwg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >From what I recall, Conner wasn't even mentioned in the Siegel heirs
> >suit.
>
> ...I've been following this since just after the announcement of the
> Superboy rights suit, and it specified "Superboy and any derivative
> versions of the character". Apparently DC Legal now thinks Connor is
> beyond the definition of a "derivative version" enough to where he
> could be brought back with only a minimal risk of losing him to thei
> siegels should they find an idiot for a judge.
>
> So yeah, Connor was killed because DC Legal panicked, and that's all
> there was to it.
There's no proof of that. DC claims that they have always thought
Connor was beyond a derivative version of, and there's nothing to say
one way or another. All they would have needed to do is stop calling
him Superboy.
After all, they didn't kill Superboy-Prime which has a very strong
case of being derivative just stopped calling him Superboy.
===
= DUG.
===
Duggy
> Will that suit ever end?
Does that trick ever work?
===
= DUG.
===
OM
<Paul....@jcu.edu.au> wrote:
>There's no proof of that.
...Duggy, this is one of those things where you won't *see" the actual
proof insofar as an official admission from anyone at DC. All the
confirmations have come through unofficial channels so as to keep the
tactic from being admissable in court. You're just going to have to
accept the facts; Connor was offed on orders from DC Legal as a tactic
in their fight against the claims of the Siegel Heirs, and the reason
he came back so damn quick was that the lawyers figured out that
Connor was derivative of Jerry Siegel's original concept in name only.
All claiming "there's no proof" is doing is trying to yell "flood!" in
a burning firehouse.
plausible prose man
> On Thu, 3 Dec 2009 14:08:00 -0800 (PST), Duggy
>
> >There's no proof of that.
>
> ...Duggy, this is one of those things where you won't *see" the actual
> proof insofar as an official admission from anyone at DC.
Which doesn't mean you can just make something up, and support it
with handwaving and hearsay.
> All the
> confirmations have come through unofficial channels so as to keep the
> tactic from being admissable in court.
I'm not really sure how "inadmissable" that is, anyway.
>You're just going to have to
> accept the facts; Connor was offed on orders from DC Legal as a tactic
> in their fight against the claims of the Siegel Heirs,
Or, let's say DC editorial was especially open to a more or less
independent idea to do so given orders from legal to minimize the
"Superboy" footprint.
> and the reason
> he came back so damn quick was that the lawyers figured out that
> Connor was derivative of Jerry Siegel's original concept in name only.
I think also DC's appealed the decision, or a judge set it aside, at
least partially, and DC seems to have gotten the idea that, at least
for now, they own Joe Schuster's share of Superboy.
> All claiming "there's no proof" is doing is trying to yell "flood!" in
> a burning firehouse.
Or healthy skepticism and critical thinking skills in the face of
some usenet know-it-all.
Duggy
> On Thu, 3 Dec 2009 14:08:00 -0800 (PST),Duggy
>
> >There's no proof of that.
>
> ...Duggy, this is one of those things where you won't *see" the actual
> proof insofar as an official admission from anyone at DC. All the
> confirmations have come through unofficial channels so as to keep the
> tactic from being admissable in court. You're just going to have to
> accept the facts; Connor was offed on orders from DC Legal as a tactic
> in their fight against the claims of the Siegel Heirs, and the reason
> he came back so damn quick was that the lawyers figured out that
> Connor was derivative of Jerry Siegel's original concept in name only.
> All claiming "there's no proof" is doing is trying to yell "flood!" in
> a burning firehouse.
Then why, at the same time, did they bring the more derivative Earth
Prime Superboy and put him in a more prominent role?
===
= DUG.
===
Rob D.
Hmmm . . . make him the target? (I think maybe this is called a
"stalking horse.") If they put Superboy Prime out front, and the
Siegels claim him as "derivative," and win that claim to "Superboy,"
can they then *also* claim another version of the character?
(Seems to me they could, but I'll bet the DC lawyers could argue a
good case the other way.)
Maybe the strategy is to sacrifice Prime (who is not an especially
popular character) to save Connor.
Duggy
> Hmmm . . . make him the target? (I think maybe this is called a
> "stalking horse.") If they put Superboy Prime out front, and the
> Siegels claim him as "derivative," and win that claim to "Superboy,"
> can they then *also* claim another version of the character?
> (Seems to me they could, but I'll bet the DC lawyers could argue a
> good case the other way.)
> Maybe the strategy is to sacrifice Prime (who is not an especially
> popular character) to save Connor.
So rather than "DC Legal panicking" as OM claims it was a complex
legal trick.
OK.
===
= DUG.
===