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Mary

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Apr 4, 1999, 4:00:00 AM4/4/99
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I was banned from NewsTalk on TalkCity for no reason. Word has it that
Christians and Conservatives voice is to be censored. Ethnic cleansing
right here in Talk City.
Who is Blueyes? Why do they use computers to harrass web tv users?
I think Talk City NewsTalk need Ethics
and Smut cleansing.
Webtv users have no choice where to chat Why should we be pushed in
rooms that do not intrest us and is just full of someone trying to
research you, sell you something, or promoting gay agenda?
The harrassment and abuse has to stop.

MaryforKeyes

Phillipians 4:13


Enoryt666

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Apr 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/5/99
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Your ISP has been notified of this off-topic post. Any further postings of this
nature will result in the cancellation of your account. You will not be given
another warning.

The Anti-Funky Man

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Apr 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/5/99
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On Sun, 4 Apr 1999 22:48:43 -0500 (CDT), Maryfo...@webtv.net (Mary)
wrote:

>I was banned from NewsTalk on TalkCity for no reason. Word has it that
>Christians and Conservatives voice is to be censored. Ethnic cleansing
>right here in Talk City.
>Who is Blueyes? Why do they use computers to harrass web tv users?
>I think Talk City NewsTalk need Ethics
>and Smut cleansing.
>Webtv users have no choice where to chat Why should we be pushed in
>rooms that do not intrest us and is just full of someone trying to
>research you, sell you something, or promoting gay agenda?
>The harrassment and abuse has to stop.
>

>MaryforKeyes
>
>Phillipians 4:13


Please... get off the computer... take a deep breath... now take a
minute... think... yes, think... clear your mind.

You are now in Reality. Welcome.

The Anti-Funky Man
this is a comic book newsgroup, for people who want to discuss comic
book topics. I apoligize for recognizing this off-topic post.

Robert Justus

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Apr 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/5/99
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Geez... it's stuff like this that gives WebTV a bad name. <sigh> To
keep this on topic (sorta), why are most heroes not as religious as they
could be? I'm not into promoting religion (far from it), but it seems
that most of the religious people in comics are the VILLAINS, and are
presented as nut-cases (which Mary here seems to prove, unfortunately).
However, the only really religious person that's sane that I recall in
DCU is Huntress, and I guess Wonder Woman (she worships the Greek gods.
Does this count?). Anyone else (and I'm not talking about made-up/alien
religions like Brother Blood's or Martian Manhuter's)? Astro City has a
group that is made up entirely of religious types, and this seems
consistent with what the real world would probably spawn. I'm just
wondering if DCU has many more religious heroes than I can recall.


ROBBY
>"Be Generous...True...Just"
>>http://ROBERT.JUSTUS.org


Tom Galloway

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Apr 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/5/99
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In article <17046-37...@newsd-113.bryant.webtv.net> RE...@webtv.net (Robert Justus) writes:
>Does this count?). Anyone else (and I'm not talking about made-up/alien
>religions like Brother Blood's or Martian Manhuter's)? Astro City has a
>group that is made up entirely of religious types, and this seems
>consistent with what the real world would probably spawn. I'm just
>wondering if DCU has many more religious heroes than I can recall.

Well, one'd have to go with Spectre and Zauriel as religous heroes (can't
get much more so than wrath'o'god and an angel). There was also the
Israeli group of heroes John Ostrander is fond of using, which included
a jewish AI (and his fiancee, by now probably wife, Mindbreaker). And
Supergirl is an "Earth-born angel" and has had someone with a fair claim
to being God as part of her supporting cast.

However, there's a couple of reasons why you don't see much religion in
characters. First, it's episodic fiction in a universe created by multiple
creators. As an example, Frank Miller established that Daredevil has a
Catholic upbringing and is a practicing Catholic. Let's say I ended up
writing Daredevil; I wasn't raised Catholic, so I'm going to have to do
a fair amount or research and/or recruit Catholics to read my stuff over
to get it right (in fairness, I don't know if Frank was raised Catholic
or not). And this ties into the second reason; people can get awfully
picky about religion, whether it's someone getting their religion "wrong",
or even a character being of a religion different from their own which
they don't approve.

Note that it's not just comics which does this; quick, name a significant
number of tv characters (save for those shows based around religion as
an occupation) whose religion is a significant part of their characters.
zSame sort of reasons apply there.

Oddly though, it does seem to me that there are significantly more Jewish
characters whose religion/heritage is made a part of their characterization
than other religions, particularly considering the relatively small overall
percentage of Jews in the US; i.e. if a character does have a stated, not
made-up, religion, chances seem almost 50-50 offhand that it's Judaism. Not
sure why though. And even then, it's usually the same generic Judaism as
with the generic Christianity; no indication if it's Conservative, Reform,
etc.

tyg t...@netcom.com

wo...@interlog.com

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Apr 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/5/99
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On Sun, 4 Apr 1999 22:48:43 -0500 (CDT), Maryfo...@webtv.net (Mary)
wrote:

>I was banned from NewsTalk on TalkCity for no reason. Word has it that
>Christians and Conservatives voice is to be censored. Ethnic cleansing
>right here in Talk City.
>Who is Blueyes? Why do they use computers to harrass web tv users?
>I think Talk City NewsTalk need Ethics
>and Smut cleansing.
>Webtv users have no choice where to chat Why should we be pushed in
>rooms that do not intrest us and is just full of someone trying to
>research you, sell you something, or promoting gay agenda?
>The harrassment and abuse has to stop.
>MaryforKeyes
>Phillipians 4:13

What the HELL are you on, girl?


Mogen Dave

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Apr 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/5/99
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enor...@aol.com (Enoryt666) wrote:

>>I was banned from NewsTalk on TalkCity for no reason. Word has it that
>>Christians and Conservatives voice is to be censored. Ethnic cleansing
>>right here in Talk City.
>>Who is Blueyes? Why do they use computers to harrass web tv users?
>>I think Talk City NewsTalk need Ethics
>>and Smut cleansing.
>>Webtv users have no choice where to chat Why should we be pushed in
>>rooms that do not intrest us and is just full of someone trying to
>>research you, sell you something, or promoting gay agenda?
>>The harrassment and abuse has to stop.
>

>Your ISP has been notified of this off-topic post. Any further postings of
>this
>nature will result in the cancellation of your account. You will not be given
>another warning.

LOL! You're such a tough guy.

Aaron S. Veenstra

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Apr 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/5/99
to
In article <17046-37...@newsd-113.bryant.webtv.net>, RE...@webtv.net
(Robert Justus) wrote:

> To
> keep this on topic (sorta), why are most heroes not as religious as they
> could be? I'm not into promoting religion (far from it), but it seems
> that most of the religious people in comics are the VILLAINS, and are
> presented as nut-cases (which Mary here seems to prove, unfortunately).

My theory on this follows along the lines of why Captain America never
takes a political stand -- it's so the readers don't start seeing
character traits they disagree with on a fundamental level. Some stories
(e.g. SPECTRE) are designed to feature deeper subject matter than
hit-beat-jail, so it works there. Some (e.g. WONDER WOMAN) feature
religions that modern Western society passes off as almost non-religious
myths, so that's OK. Frankly, I'm glad to see SUPERGIRL, a mainstream
superhero title, involving some religious issues. I'm an atheist myself,
but it's nice to see more intellect than, say, every other Superbook.

Aaron

--
_ _ _
/ \ \ \ / / | aa...@portup.com
/ 0 \ aron \ \/ / eenstra | http://www.etchouse.com
/_/ \_\ \__/ | graphic, web, multimedia design

Wyvern

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Apr 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/6/99
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Mary <Maryfo...@webtv.net> wrote in article
<9617-370...@newsd-124.bryant.webtv.net>...


> I was banned from NewsTalk on TalkCity for no reason. Word has it that
> Christians and Conservatives voice is to be censored. Ethnic cleansing
> right here in Talk City.
> Who is Blueyes? Why do they use computers to harrass web tv users?
> I think Talk City NewsTalk need Ethics
> and Smut cleansing.
> Webtv users have no choice where to chat Why should we be pushed in
> rooms that do not intrest us and is just full of someone trying to
> research you, sell you something, or promoting gay agenda?
> The harrassment and abuse has to stop.
>

> MaryforKeyes
>

So you know how it feels to be censored, but still think people who you
don't share your moral views should be. There's no hope for you.


--
-Wyvern.
"I'm just an Immortal type of guy."
-Kenji Murasame, GIANT ROBO: The Night the Earth Stood Still
"So.......have you seen Spot run?"
-XS, IMPULSE

Wyvern

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Apr 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/6/99
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Wyvern <yaravede...@gte.net> wrote in article
<7ebjt9$rdm$1...@news-2.news.gte.net>...


>
>
> Mary <Maryfo...@webtv.net> wrote in article
> <9617-370...@newsd-124.bryant.webtv.net>...
> > I was banned from NewsTalk on TalkCity for no reason. Word has it
that
> > Christians and Conservatives voice is to be censored. Ethnic cleansing
> > right here in Talk City.
> > Who is Blueyes? Why do they use computers to harrass web tv users?
> > I think Talk City NewsTalk need Ethics
> > and Smut cleansing.
> > Webtv users have no choice where to chat Why should we be pushed in
> > rooms that do not intrest us and is just full of someone trying to
> > research you, sell you something, or promoting gay agenda?
> > The harrassment and abuse has to stop.
> >
> > MaryforKeyes
> >
>
> So you know how it feels to be censored, but still think people who you
> don't share your moral views should be. There's no hope for you.
>
>

I aplogize for posting off-topic. I usually post to a group where people
don't mind it, and forgot about that here.


--
-Wyvern

Wyvern

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Apr 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/6/99
to

Robert Justus <RE...@webtv.net> wrote in article
<17046-37...@newsd-113.bryant.webtv.net>...
> Geez... it's stuff like this that gives WebTV a bad name. <sigh> To


> keep this on topic (sorta), why are most heroes not as religious as they
> could be? I'm not into promoting religion (far from it), but it seems
> that most of the religious people in comics are the VILLAINS, and are
> presented as nut-cases (which Mary here seems to prove, unfortunately).

> However, the only really religious person that's sane that I recall in
> DCU is Huntress, and I guess Wonder Woman (she worships the Greek gods.

> Does this count?). Anyone else (and I'm not talking about made-up/alien
> religions like Brother Blood's or Martian Manhuter's)? Astro City has a
> group that is made up entirely of religious types, and this seems
> consistent with what the real world would probably spawn. I'm just
> wondering if DCU has many more religious heroes than I can recall.
>
>

> ROBBY

Well, I think Zauriel would definatly count. He lives in heaven, for crying
out loud........BTW, the fact that in the DC universe the God of the
Christian religon is confirmed to exsist seems to be an endorsement of
religon.

-Wyvern

Robert Justus

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Apr 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/6/99
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I don't think we should count Spectre or Zauriel. I tend to think of
them like Thor or Hercules. Representatives of religion, not
worshipers. Ragman was Jewish, yes? A rag golem? Huntress is
Catholic. What is Batman's religion? Is he an atheist? Superman?
Thanks for the thoughtful, insightful posts. 8-)

Kal-El

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Apr 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/6/99
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On Tue, 6 Apr 1999 02:13:09 -0400 (EDT), RE...@webtv.net (Robert
Justus) wrote:

>I don't think we should count Spectre or Zauriel. I tend to think of
>them like Thor or Hercules. Representatives of religion, not
>worshipers.

I agree. I think of them, and Supergirl, as being part of a
'mythology' of Christianity. Beside which, in most cases the visions
of 'Heavan' and 'God' are so indeterminate that you can't take them as
even trying to representational of Scripture (although, Supergirl is
getting a -tad- preachy).

>Ragman was Jewish, yes? A rag golem?

Yeah. Cool tie it. Golems are a Hebrew legend, after all.

>Huntress is Catholic.
Tough to miss with the cross around her neck!

>What is Batman's religion? Is he an atheist?

If I had to geuss, I'd say probably agnostic with atheistic
leanings. He's seen to much weirness to summarily deny something's
existence without proof or first-hand knowledge, but considering his
focus on temporal justice, he probably doesn't believe in devine
punishment.

> Superman?
His wedding was in the Christian tradition, but left deliberatly
unspecific. He's probably Anglican by upbringing, but doubt that
anyone at DC wants him coming out as any one specific denomination.

Others...
Flash's (Wally West) wedding was also pseudo-Christian, but much
less so (outside, no church, I'm not even sure if it was a priest or a
justice of the peace).
Supergirl. Definatley Christian, and getting more so by the minute.
Martian Manhunter worships a martian religion of some sort
(presumably)
Wonder Woman is part of the Ancient Greek pantheon
Captain Marvel is part of the Ancient Roman pantheon (the
difference between the two was demonstrated in War of the Gods... how
did that turn out anyway?)

>Thanks for the thoughtful, insightful posts. 8-)

I try.

Blaine Manyluk

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Apr 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/6/99
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Tom Galloway <t...@netcom.com> wrote in article
<tygF9q...@netcom.com>...

> Oddly though, it does seem to me that there are significantly more
> Jewish characters whose religion/heritage is made a part of their
> characterization than other religions, particularly considering the
> relatively small overall percentage of Jews in the US;

There are many factors here. First of all, there is a strong Jewish
presence in the komik industry. (As a side point, Superman has many
elements of Jewish symbolism, such as the "El" in "Kal-El". But
nobody seriously argues that Superman *is* Jewish.)

> i.e. if a character does have a stated, not made-up, religion,
> chances seem almost 50-50 offhand that it's Judaism. Not sure why
> though. And even then, it's usually the same generic Judaism as
> with the generic Christianity; no indication if it's Conservative,
> Reform, etc.

Jews are a nation as well as a religion. That has been the cause of
so much confusion. It's possible for someone to be ethnically Jewish
but not follow the religion of Judaism. The reverse is also possible,
but rare.

So many Jews in komix may be secular ones - Jewish (or more precisely
Jewish American) by nationality, but not by religion.

======================================================================
[To reply, remove the S's from my address, and change the R's to N's.]

An infinite number of monkeys on an infinite number of typewriters
will eventually come up with a good _Voyager_ script.


Bill Hay

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Apr 20, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/20/99
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In article <17046-37...@newsd-113.bryant.webtv.net>, Robert Justus wrote:
>However, the only really religious person that's sane that I recall in
>DCU is Huntress, and I guess Wonder Woman (she worships the Greek gods.
>Does this count?). Anyone else (and I'm not talking about made-up/alien
>religions like Brother Blood's or Martian Manhuter's)? Astro City has a
Azrael/Jean Paul Valley? The order of St Dumas seems to have been a
Christian sect although what he believes in now is unspecified he's
probably some sort of Christian.

--
Humorous Quote

David!

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Apr 21, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/21/99
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> In article <17046-37...@newsd-113.bryant.webtv.net>, Robert Justus wrote:
> >However, the only really religious person that's sane that I recall in
> >DCU is Huntress, and I guess Wonder Woman (she worships the Greek gods.
> >Does this count?). Anyone else (and I'm not talking about made-up/alien
> >religions like Brother Blood's or Martian Manhuter's)?

Black Lightning is a Christian, I believe (Baptist?), and has
always seemed pretty sane to me.
Then there's Maya, a Hindu,
and wasn't Thunderlord a Buddhist?

Dr Light III (Kimiyo Hoshi) seems to know a lot about various
religions, but I don't know if she is depicted as having any
specific faith herself.

David

Moon Cry9

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Apr 21, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/21/99
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>> >However, the only really religious person that's sane that I recall in
>> >DCU is Huntress, and I guess Wonder Woman (she worships the Greek gods.
>> >Does this count?). Anyone else (and I'm not talking about made-up/alien
>> >religions like Brother Blood's or Martian Manhuter's)?
>
>Black Lightning is a Christian, I believe (Baptist?), and has
>always seemed pretty sane to me.
>Then there's Maya, a Hindu,
>and wasn't Thunderlord a Buddhist?
>
>Dr Light III (Kimiyo Hoshi) seems to know a lot about various
>religions, but I don't know if she is depicted as having any
>specific faith herself.

In the Legion (Preboot) Collosal Boy was shown as Jewish, and his mother who
was president of earth was very religous.

Webster

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Apr 23, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/23/99
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Chuck Dixon has stated that Nightwing is religious. There was even some
Christian paraphenalia shown in his apartment once.

Moon Cry9 <moon...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990421155612...@ng38.aol.com...

Chuck Burke

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Apr 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/24/99
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Barry (Flash) Allen was shown to be a churchgoing man.

Connor (Green Arrow) Hawke is a buddhist, or something similar.

Aztek is a part of a cult, I beleive.

Albert Rothstein (Atom Smasher, I think it is now?) is Jewish

I think I recall that Adrian (Vigilante) Chase was a fairly religious man.

Can't think of any others off hand.

--
The Wizard of Clashing Palettes!!

"If Al Gore created the Internet, then I invented the spell checker."
Dan Quayle, March 23, 1999

Webster wrote in message ...

RMorris306

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Apr 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/24/99
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<<
Barry (Flash) Allen was shown to be a churchgoing man.
>>

Where? I have an almost complete run of his stories, and the only time I
remember seeing him in church was when he got married, which is rather a
special case...

Rich


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